Frank Zummo of Sum 41 on Tour Bus Truths

This week on Behind the Scene with Gunz, Sully and Dicky Barrett, we chat about what touring really costs, from bus life and backstage grind to the split-second joy of a great show. Then Frank Zummo joins to connect performance to wellness and mental strength, sharing how his work with kids and his new book turn hard lessons into something useful. 
• The Defiant lineup and how a “supergroup” actually comes together 
• Tour bus life as survival training, including the unglamorous rules 
• Small clubs versus massive festivals and the challenge of staying connected 
• A Lollapalooza 1994 memory that captures the backstage chaos of the era 
• Breathwork, recovery, and wellness habits that support longevity on stage 
• Sum 41 rebuilding, ending at a peak, and the fear that follows the final show

Transcript

The Defiant Supergroup Introductions

SPEAKER_03 0:44

I just told you the name. Tell us again. The Defiant! Just the Defiant Command. I'm not gonna tell you the name again. Just before we came out of that break, you asked me the name of the band that I put together with some other uh big guy. Yeah, really good.

SPEAKER_04 1:03

Who's in the band?

SPEAKER_03 1:03

You've got you've got like-minded musicians and um very talented, more talented than myself. I lower the curve when it comes to so. Well, listen, you are a legend in yourself, and this is a great setup for uh on the drums. Yes, Pete Parada played for years with the offspring. Yes. Um guitar guitar is is um Greg Camp's Smashmouth from Smash Mouth, one of all those huge smashmouth hits. There's a guy named Um Joey La Roca who plays guitar and he was in a band called The Briggs. Yep. Johnny Rio plays the bass, and he's with the Street Dogs out of Boston. So it's a bit of a 90s super group. Yeah, I'm gonna write it down. Give me your magic mark. Yeah, right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Write it down for you. The Defiant. Love it, love it. It's got a great sound. Of course, you can go listen to it across all streaming services right now, follow them across all the social media and beyond. And the reason I bring this up though is because obviously, Dick Bear, you've been involved in the music industry for decades now. You've seen it all. You've seen it all. No, you've seen it all. And I want we bring this up because we have a segment here.

SPEAKER_04 2:13

Wait, can I just say this on the outscured part? Yeah. We did an album with Blue Alan Records as an homage to 60s and 70s deep track blues. Nice. And we somehow, you know, our manager at the time somehow finagled us in, so we got charted number three on Billboard on some obscure freaking thing, like a best blues band south of the five freeway. Yeah. And we and we charted number three above Joe Bonamasa and Eric Clapton. That thing's about the size of a poster in my house. This guy in the legitimate world, Billboard number one hit. Impression that I get. No, seriously. Yeah.

Tour Bus Reality And Rules

SPEAKER_04 2:50

I had to figure out a way. Just so I could say the word billboard next to my name or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Where were you when you found out you went number one or found out that you're like, where was the first time you heard that song on the radio?

SPEAKER_03 3:02

Probably, probably on the road, because that's at that time, that's what you did. You you made a record and then just got out there and I toured and toured and toured. Didn't you have just a big trailer full of suits for you guys? There was a half the trailer. We we had a bus, and then we were towing one of those larger sized trailers behind us, but half of it was suits for the band. And um started to really smell back there.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

Talk about bus life. People see these big tour buses. Yeah. And they I don't think people. It seems like such a cool thing being a music fan.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

I had 12 guys on that bus. So what is it, what is what is bus life? 12 guys into your apartment. Are y'all sleeping there? Well, yeah, so what is it? In a coffin-shaped moving down the highway. Huh? Like this. And so you're from sleep basically anywhere. If you're not sleeping there, you're sleeping in an airport against your street.

SPEAKER_04 3:58

Is that because it's less expensive for a tour if you're going from city to city to ride a bus and to get everybody on a plane to go? Is it was that the idea behind buses? Because even some of the biggest, I mean, you see big tour buses with it's huge.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

It's expensive. The buses are expensive, and touring that way is expensive, but it's sort of mandatory, and it's sort of if you're gonna get any sleep at all, and it's all about the show. You're just you're traveling to the next city, someone's already there setting up your gear, and uh you get into town and you know, wait till you go on stage. What was one of the rules?

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Uh, you know, some people are like, all right, take your shoes off when you get into a house. Did they did you have a were there any rules?

SPEAKER_03 4:35

Uh no sip downs in the toilet. Yeah. Have to wait for the next stop. I gotta wait for the truck stop. Yeah, yeah. No, no number twos. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:44

James and Brian. James and Brian, you know, James and Brian both been on tour, you know. James, of course, with with everyone from everyone from uh uh Eric Clapton to uh little Chris and the Nightcrawlers with the Mira Mesa Bowl. And then Brian Jordan with uh Lauren Hill and Dave Matthews. I think you even played with These are big names. Why aren't they on the show? James and why am I here? But but here but I've heard these guys talk before. You got 24 hours in a day, right? Okay, yeah, you got let's say a two and a half hours, three hours for the show. Okay, so you got 21 hours left, eight hours of sleep, there's 11 hours done. Yeah, you got another 14 hours a day to kill, minus two hours for one hour for a sound check.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

You walk around the city, you miss your family, you you know. Am I wrong? I mean, it's it but it's all sort of about the show, you know. That's really I mean, because that's why I say where your head is at.

SPEAKER_04 5:30

Everyone who wants to be in the music business, you got to really think about what it's like. Because I I'm telling you, for and at this late age, getting involved where you I get to play in a bunch of big crowds in front of small crowds, everything else. It all the actions happening where you're at, whether you're this way, playing this way, or clapping this way, because everything else behind the scenes feels like you're working at a luggage claim at an airport.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Honestly. And you can be sometimes with like 11 other people, and you all have to like you like that's wild. You know what I mean? Like you're led, like it's it's like, oh, it's all glitz and glam, but it's like, think about all those hours that you're not on stage, it's just like, oh crap.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

That's why kind of touring with the Boston the way we used to tour, it was it was fun because you had you know 11 of your best friends out on the road with you. So that that I wouldn't trade it, you know, when you're doing it, when you're the guy, anything I say that's that sounds like bullshit, you guys can just yell out bullshit. But I'm but am I lying? Is it true? You know, I mean that's and and you miss your family, like I said, you miss you miss weird things. And and uh uh you're like, well, uh, you know, I I miss my car. As you're on the bus.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

You miss your what? What was that word?

SPEAKER_03 6:40

I'm from Boston. Who are you? Oh, I got to be able to do it. I got a bit of an impediment.

SPEAKER_04 6:43

I couldn't tell. I miss my car. Is there is there um um when you go on these tours, is it a crapshoot knowing what you're gonna go up there against in terms of what the sound's gonna be like or what you're gonna be like?

SPEAKER_03 6:55

Uh sort of get into uh it's a routine and you're you know, if you've got a good crew and you've got good sound engineers and good front of houses. Because you're laying your template on wherever you're at, everywhere you go, right? Yes, that's where they do. You sort of do it. And and and once again, as times change, there was, you know, when we used to tour, it was complete, you know, autopilot where I would be saying the same thing every night, which you really can't do so much anymore with people with the post-call you out on it. Yeah, you said that last night. Yeah, I saw it on Instagram.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

So you kind of uh now did you thrive more at yeah, you say the wrong city exactly.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Oh yeah. Oh, you'll be done. Yeah, yeah. Did you thrive more? Like, did you enjoy more of those like 300 type uh 500 type shows

Small Rooms Versus Huge Festivals

SPEAKER_02 7:45

or like those kind of shows? Or did you enjoy like the massive music festivals? Festivals, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Uh it's you know, apples and oranges. I mean, and you know, I love the intimate small venues, I like playing like that, but then it's it's pretty thrilling to get up in front of a huge European festival and and hundred thousand people all just going nuts. Yeah. Yeah. Yelling they love you in languages you don't understand. That's not what they were yelling at.

SPEAKER_04 8:12

That's not that's not they were yelling something else. No, it's a different language. Yelling something.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

The one finger right here means the same universally, all right?

SPEAKER_04 8:20

We played in front of some big crowds, and I will tell you, I remember playing at the bar here in San Diego where we were the bar, we were the band for a long time called the Kraken. And it was a capacity of 150, and we would draw like 300, and it was the cops would come, the whole thing. Yeah, it was like that feeling like you see in a movie. Uh the beer, you know, the the the band, the house band, and it was, it was, you know, like our song Raise a Glass. It felt like that, right? Yeah. Then you go to these big things, and it's thrilling to look out there, but it's what for me, it's way disconnecting because you really can only see. Yeah, honestly, you know, in your line of sight, this much. So what is that? 30 feet out, right? And everything else is just a blur anyway. So I always found it, I always found it kind of discon disconnecting until you get the one guy, you know, pounding on the fence or whatever that that's engaging to try to pick somebody else to engage to it. For me, I think the bigger ones for me, a little more nerve-wracking, but less intimate, or not intimate, but less, less of a performance, more of just a machine thing. I and I I think that's because I just haven't been used to it.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

True, but but it like I said, it's a just different sort of different sort of feeling. It's not, you know, that there's nothing better than an intimate room. You play, you know.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

What's the craziest thing that's ever happening on stage in a big like is there one thing that happened? Like you were on stage in front of a big crowd and just went like um some guy threw his boxer shorts at you? I can oh, that wasn't at a show. Sorry, I was just saying.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Can I have those back, by the way? Can you please have those back?

SPEAKER_03 9:44

I really like those.

Lollapalooza 94 And Courtney Love

SPEAKER_03 9:46

I can remember playing in a we played Lollapalooza in '94, and that was uh Hole was headlining. And all of that was crazy, every single thing. It was shortly after Kurt Cobain passed away. And so Courtney Love's out on the road. So it was a complete traveling circus the whole time. And I would go in every day, I'll try to make this as quick as possible, to a trailer because we were on our way to Japan after the um Lollapalooza tour. And Courtney Love would be in there every day on her computer, and it was the first laptop computer I saw at the time, and she had it, and it was a mess. It was covered in makeup, and some of the keys were burnt from cigarettes, and she would be on it. And I don't even know, was there an internet? Was there, you know, social media? But she's on it every day. And it was me doing phone interviews in this one trailer, this media trailer, and her, and I was doing interviews with Japan. And at the end of this interview, the guy I was talking to started going, uh, uh, thank you very much for being in the Mighty Mighty Bostons. And I go, Oh, thank you. And thank you very much for the great music you play. And oh, thank you. And thank you for the tour that's coming up, and oh, thank you. And thank you, oh thank you. Oh, and after about a minute and a half of that, Courtney reached over and hung up, hung up the phone on and she goes, Who you talking to? Japan? And I said, Yeah. She said, it's worse when you get there. Oh hell.

SPEAKER_04 11:31

That's great. Everything you didn't know about the music business for feeling a sec.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

The article audible off the basement for master tuck, master tuck, cool, graduate, break, the class road, touch and put the last poster when I got close to this. I'm on that. Yes, dog.

Frank Zumo Joins From The Airport

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Welcome back, of course. This is behind the scenes. And this is our segment called On the Stage. I'm Guns, of course, from the Gun Show, joined by the My My Boss Stones and the Defiant Vario Dickie Barrett, and Sully himself. And this is on the stage. We're very excited and honored to be joined by longtime Sum41 Drummer, also part of Electric Callboy, and the author of the upcoming new book, Unbreakable Rhythm, My Journey Through Music, Wellness, and Mental Strength. Frank Zumo is with us right now. Frankie baby, live from the airport, I see.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Greetings from Chicago, uh, United Airport Lounge. I'm gonna be able to do it. Is that Midway or O'Hare? O'Hare. On my way to start the book tour tomorrow. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Very cool. Very cool, man. Well, listen, we appreciate you being a part of this. Uh, of course, Dickie Bear, you have a long time history with the uh with Sum 41, correct?

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Yes, I do. I I took Sum 41 on their very first um United States tour way back before Frank was in the band, but I've I've met Frank since. And Frank is, if for those of you who don't know, is one hell of a drummer. He really is. He's he's an elite drummer, he's as as good as they get. And I saw you recently, I it wasn't that long ago, though, I saw you on that Heaven and Hell tour, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Yeah, totally. We've bumped into each other a few times, and obviously that some guys have shared so many amazing stories about you taking them under their wing when they were kids. And um, you know, as I said, I'm such a fan of yours for just everything that you fight for and believe in, man. It's uh it's awesome. We need more people like you in this world for sure.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

Oh my god, thank you so much, Frank. I didn't expect that, but thank you. Hey, Frank.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Welcome.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Can I quickly ask you? No, you can't. You always ask me questions. Sorry, go ahead and ask a question. You're the rock star. Go ahead, uh, you're the rock star. Pardon me, Sully, but uh I'd like to ask you about the book. The the title of the book is You just stole my question. Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

It's uh Unbreakable Rhythm, my journey through music, wellness, and mental

Bullying Workshops And Teen Mental Health

SPEAKER_01 14:20

strength.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

I want to I wanna the last two are the ones that interest me. The wellness. Now, what exactly are you referring to there?

SPEAKER_01 14:29

So I've been doing workshops around the world for kids with School of Rock for years, and they've just organically turned into just when we have the open question and answer talking about being bullied, these what kids are going through today online at school, um, just the mental toll that it takes on these kids, and they're just talking to me about advice, and it's just organically grown into us partnering now with teen suicide prevention charities because we've lost kids over just what kids go through now. Um, it just continues to grow. And doing these events, I was just like, okay, there's a big world. Like, how can I take what happens in this workshop and have it accessible? Um, and Jason Pettigrew from Alternative Press, who's written about me so many times in my career, uh, came to one of these events and he saw firsthand what was going on. And again, talking about wellness, you know, us as artists, what we go through just to perform, being treating yourself like an athlete, just the health aspect, you know, what I do to be able to perform at this level and longevity and all that. So Jason was there, I saw the magic of it, and we literally started talking backstage after the show. He recorded that conversation. That was the introduction to this book. And three years later, it's out now, which is insane.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

I think your your use of the word athlete is a really good description of of how it is you you take to your job and play the drums. It it is like watching a professional athlete when you play. You're it's a very, very rigorous and very, very strenuous show, and something that would kill a mere mortal like myself, but you're you're an absolute absolute beast on the drums. Um, the the mental awareness is mental strength, is that something that you had to deal with personally yourself? Did you go through it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Through just, you know, being bullied uh for being a musician with long hair and metallica shirts and wearing Doc Martin boots, which now is cool, you know, but wasn't cool when I was coming up. So um, you know, I got gun thrown in my hair on the bus and jumped and you know, all that stuff. And um I just, you know, lived in my own world and just wanted to go home and play drums, and I didn't let it, you know, defeat me in in any way. Um, but now, you know, the bullying is just these kids can't escape it, they go home, and it's on social media, it's just it's everywhere. So um, it's been just cool to just let them know, like us artists, we go through the same stuff. I mean, even you know, us now in in this part of our life and social media and everything we have to go through, and it's just like explaining them that it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter, you can't let that defeat you. It's it's about just the art and you being happy with what you're doing and just all those kind of real talks and conversations. Like, I didn't have that. I didn't have any of these people to go through. When I went to, you know, they were called drum clinics when I was a kid, it was just a you know, a firework show of of beats, and the that person talked about beats and signed an autograph, you know. And the cool thing that I'm doing with these kids is we're actually jamming together. Like I'm playing a full sum 41 set with these kids, um, which is so amazing that they get to do that and play with me, the artist, you know, like just doing things that I didn't have coming up, and it's just it's gone so well that I felt like it was just really cool to put this in a book, like I said, to get the message out, and then just talk about you know all of the struggles that every project, just even getting us into Sum 41, you know, that whole story, like just cool stories, um, and overcoming things and never giving up, and just all those stories that you really don't care about because everybody, of course, just puts your greatest highlights on social media, and people just think like it's that easy, but it's not.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

So Frank, you're doing you're doing uh congratulations on this book, and thank you for this book. And you're absolutely doing God's work. I've been proud of Sum 41 since the since the day I met them. I I like the way they work, I like the way they think, I like the people they are, they're great, and and you could say that better than I could. And and my co-hosts have questions for you, but I just wanted to say that I'm super proud of you guys and you and what it is you're doing right now. And and please keep up the good work.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Thanks so much, man. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

Sully here, uh, you know, it's interesting in looking through um you know researching, and and and you know, you talk about suicide ladiation among teens and so on and so forth, it's rampant in this country. And you look at some of the names that are mentioned uh in in the Unbreakable Rhythm, uh, specifically Laird Hamilton and Gabri Reese, who who've taken on suicide ladiation teens before. Talk about your relationship with them and and how that what that's meant to you and and and and that that piece of the book specifically.

Breathwork Wellness And Playing Like An Athlete

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Yeah, I've known them for about 10 years, um, and they changed my life with just like wellness and breath work. All the stuff that I, you know, obviously we breathe to survive, but when you really understand about breath work, how I use it to go to bed at night, I use it to get amp for a show instead of drinking caffeine, you know, what an ice bath is, working out with weights in the pool and supplements. I mean, they changed my whole world and introduced me to all these amazing coaches and sports therapists and people that I've worked extensively with. Um and they're just like family. Um, so they're absolutely incredible. And they've supported me, you know, in like in COVID when I was going to the school rock schools to do events for kids because they had nothing. You know, kids were stripped of sports and graduations, and you know, they're they have a wellness company, and they supported me going on the road to give these kids this experience and stuff. So Laird and Gabby are just superhumans, they're the best.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

Don't get me started on COVID. Um you don't want to do that. Uh guns has a question, and I think that guns, um, you should know this. He eats like a four-year-old. He won't he won't eat a vegetable.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

I'm not, I don't like I don't like the color green too much when it comes to my food. So bacon cheeseburgers all day. He likes fried food. He eats a lot of fried food. Okay, and the more processed, the better when it comes to guns. Works out, absolutely. Well, listen, something that is not processed, of course, is Frank Zuma when it comes to uh to the drum set and on the drums. And I know we had spoken kind of when it was coming towards the end of Sum 41. And I just want to bring up that era once again and just uh also kind

Sum 41’s Final Run And A New Start

SPEAKER_02 20:50

of get an update for all the fans out there that are listening or in attendance and whatnot, is um what Sum 41 did, Frank, I and I and I truly obviously it's bittersweet and sad, you know, as a longtime fan of you guys seeing it come to an end. But what you did was you announced a world tour and hit up as much country, as many countries as you could, as many states as you could, and gave fans that last opportunity to really just go nuts and embrace a band that you know was so formulated to them. So talk to me about kind of that that run because rather than fizzle out, some 41 got to go out at the height, man. You had a number one single on rock radio with landmines, you had an incredible double disc album that you released. I mean, some for you had sold-out shows all across the globe. Talk to me about how important it was to go out like that, but also like, damn man, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Like, uh Yeah, this is I deep dive obviously in the book on this because it was all happening, you know, when I was writing the book. But yeah, I mean, when I joined the band, it wasn't really a band. You know, Derek had, you know, gone in the hospital from You know, drinking and it wasn't a band, you know, and I got in the band it slowly over you know some time started building back up. And when I joined the band and we started playing, we were playing clubs, you know, we had to rebuild from the ground and prove ourselves and all this stuff, which was such a great you know, challenge. And literally in a decade, it turned into this insane finale where you know I was obviously devastated when Derek said the band was ending. I was at a workshop and got the news when I got off stage, and it was like from the highest of highs to the lowest of lows. And um, you know, but we went out, you know, and this last cycle, and everything that we could have dreamt of, we would have never thought this would have happened, like you said, to have you know the biggest success in the band's history. It beat all the records of fat lipping into Jeep heyday stuff, like two number one hits on this record, sold out arenas, like I said, stadium. We did 42,000 in Paris, got ducked into the Canadian Hall of Fame, like it was insane. And the cool thing was we had a year and a half to enjoy this. So I just said, okay, we've got the next leg to look forward to. I'm not gonna worry about the future, I'm gonna live in the moment. And then finally, when the end came and it was like Canada and there was nothing left, I I really got you know, anxiety and fear, everything really kicked in. And at literally the morning of our final performance to get inducted into the Hall of Fame and play the Juno's, Electric Callboy called me because at this exact time last year in Australia, um, we went there with some 41 to headline all the festivals and arenas, and on the first day, we had to cancel the whole thing. Derek uh was diagnosed with a pneumonia. So we went all the way to Australia, shut the whole thing down. I was still there doing workshops and whatnot, and Electric Callboy took our spot. Their drummer had to go home on the day of the show. I learned their show in five hours building. It somehow miraculously worked out, and then they called me to be their drummer. So I've been in the band now for a year. I just got home. I did we did six weeks in um in Europe, sold out arenas. So it's just wow, it's been a ride, and I'm so blessed and lucky to be because I was, you know, am I ever gonna play arenas again? Like it's so hard to get into another band at this level.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

There's gonna you're gonna have no problem finding work, Frank. Yeah, yeah. You're gonna be you're sought after.

Learning Sets Fast From Crue To Callboy

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Real quick, Frank, what was it? What was the difference between learning the electric callboy set and then filling in for Tommy Lee and having to learn the Motley Crue set? And what were those band practices like or how that came about? Because you played with Motley Crue, bro.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

That was another same thing. High pressure, you know, get on a plane, come and fill in. But see, Motley Crue, that was my childhood. I played to those records my entire life. I knew those songs, you know. So it was like very, very easy. Electric Hallboy, it's like I was familiar with their music and I played it like you just said, but I didn't like know them and know an hour of material. And it's it's insane, like metal core and then techno, you know. So it's it's it was a completely different uh beast. And it was really cool to kick in that you know mechanism like can I do this? Can I deliver? You know, like all of that stuff, and and it miraculously, you know, worked out um and secured me a new gig, which is so amazing.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

The rest is history, as they say. Frank Zumo, man, we appreciate you. Thank you so, so much for being part of behind the scenes. Of course, the new book, Unbreakable Rhythm, my journey through music, wellness, and mental strength. Make sure to follow him across social media. Appreciate you all these many doing some very, very important and great stuff. I am going to do behind the scenes with thank you guys for my last girls and stuff!

SPEAKER_00 25:39

I need a lot of studios and it's a good idea.