MIS(TER)GENDERED S1 E04 LARA VOLGYESI

 Join host Sar White in conversation Lara Volgyesi, a  landscape architect, and eco‑cultural restoration consultant, who shares her journey to true self acceptance through love, resilience and chosen family.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

I gratefully acknowledge the series was recorded on the unceded traditional territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Slave-Tooth nations. Indigenous peoples have maintained stewardship and jurisdiction over these lands since time immemorial.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

And she said, So do you think, you know, do you think you'd be interested in having because she knew I didn't have a boyfriend at the time. Do you think you'd be interested in having a girlfriend at the time? And I knew I remember I nearly drove off the i the i-5. Like honestly, I could not believe it was coming out of her mouth.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Welcome to Mr. Gendered, the show where we swap labels for lived experience and get curious about life beyond the binary. Today we're talking to Lara Volgazy, a landscape architect, entrepreneur, eco-cultural restoration consultant, and a parent to a very, very large dog. Let's join the conversation. So welcome, brother. Thank you. Do you want to tell the story about how we became brothers? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

I can think of a lot of reasons why we would be brothers, actually. Um you had an event here. I can't even remember what the event was for, but you it was catered and it was yummy. And um we came in and I think uh we were just kind of hovering over the the table and we walked towards the fellow and he just kind of pointed his fingers at us and said, brothers. And we said, Yeah, we're brothers, actually. And we kind of laughed. It was very funny. It was ever since. But yeah, brothers.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Okay, so to start out, uh let's kind of orient ourselves. We do let's do a little snapshot of how you identify, and then we'll dig into kind of your origin story. So just no age, if you will, pronouns if you have, gender identity, all those things. Right. All the labels that you choose to have at this point in your life.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Um okay, uh, 55 years old, post-menopausal, just for the record. Um and she butch. That's me. She butch. Uh lesbian, queer. Um yeah, I think covers it. That kind of covers covers it all, pretty much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Love it. Think even way back to your childhood when you were a little whatever it was, either a girl in dresses or a tomboy. A little creature. And just kind of like how how you came to be who you are today, you know, has that changed along the way? Just, you know, give us a bit of a story.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Yeah, I kind of some I think about it a lot, right? And um I often think, well, you know, I don't know. Like in in our community, in our queer community, the story doesn't feel super unique. Although, um, you know, when I was, I mean, I knew when I was in kindergarten, for example, I was the Fonz for Halloween. It's a very timely day to be doing this um this interview because yeah, I was the Fonz, and and I was, you know, I was a good Fonz too, because I did snap my fingers in my kindergarten class, and I did have uh I did have a bit of swire? Huh? A bit of swire. And yeah, and I got kissed on the cheek by quite a few wee girls. So well done. Um so I kind of felt like as a as a wee kid, like starting at that age, uh, I was I was a tomboy. I was the evil cannieval kid. I was the road hockey kid. Um, you know, I was climbing the trees and um and I kind of think that I, you know, at that young age, we're we're so blessed with not having um anybody judge us, right? Like there's no judgment around well, it wasn't for me anyway, what you, you know, wearing shorts versus a a wee skirt or um playing with, you know, certain toys or being sporty. Um I know that when when I was one it got a little bit older and I wanted to, I wanted to go and play soccer with the boys, there was no league for little girls. And so my mom was quite offended by that and went right into the community center and said, you know, well, she wants to play soccer, so what are we gonna do about it? And they said, Well, we only have a a boys league. And she said, Okay, well, she's gonna play in the boys league, I guess. And so she would come to the games with me. And so, like, there was it was very supportive, like at that age, but then, you know, I was really into comics um as well. And I don't know, I'm sure there's a lot of you know, small tomboys that always looked at the ads in the back, and you could get little seahorses, or you could also send away for a kit to get big muscles. And I was that kid that wanted to have big muscles. Um, and I remember I must have been like seven or something. And I remember trying to get the um the guts, I guess, to go to my mom and say, Hey, can I like send away for this kit, right? And it took me a long time, right? And then finally I did. This is a very pivotal moment. Um, so what I let me just go back. Like what I was saying was that it felt like this very free time where you could just be who you were, um not really get judged like uh, you know, by your friends at that time, or um, or at least in my my experience, um, I had a lot of support from my parents to be sporty and be the tomboy and be the free spirit. Um and then I remember that day, it was a very pivotal point in my life. I remember the day that I went to my mom and said, Mama had pointed at the comic book, and I said, I really want this. And she looked at me and she said, Well, do you want a rubber penis as well? And I was like, and I remember just being so felt feeling so ashamed because I didn't never I never made this connection between big muscles and masculinity. It was all about, you know, what I wanted for my body. Right. And, you know, I wasn't thinking about, you know, body parts and those kinds of things. So it was a quite a horrific and you know, it was a bit of a game changer in terms of how How old were you? I must have been like seven or something. Oh wow, like I was super young. That's really tough. Um you know, and that's not a story, that's a s that's a that's an experience that you know it's only been in the last three years that I've actually shared it. Really? Um and and but it absolutely 100% uh shaped my identity and who I am today. Because if it wasn't like I think it just put things in perspective for me around, okay, this is this is what's ahead of me in the world. I'm going to be defiant, you know. I want those big muscles, I have those big muscles. I want those big muscles, and I'm going to have to act and behave out in the world differently. I have to watch myself. And and I think that I kind of carried that. I carried that with me. Like, well, I still carry it with me too. I mean, I think a lot of queer people, you know, navigate the streets, navigate environments um and spaces, um, and can do that scan of the room and scan of the street and assess safety, you know, whether it's you know, be careful what you say or how you behave.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

So do you think after that point, uh tiny thing, um, that you you still can use it kind of rebellious, do you think you still purse you didn't give up, but you were super careful, or you did give up, or like because you kept playing sports, you kept like Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

I um at that age I didn't understand it. And then as I got older, um, it it stuck with me. It would come up at different times. Right. Um, I think it was completely inappropriate of my mother to say it.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Well, that goes without saying, yeah. I would 100% you know that.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Yeah, it was totally inappropriate for my mother to say something like that, and I don't think she actually uh understood um, you know, the potential damage that she does to a weak kid when she says something like that. Because it was damaging. Um it, you know, at different times, I wouldn't say it was consistent at all, but at different times um fears or insecurities and things that would come up, I absolutely think it stems from that message, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Um so how did you like as you grew up and sort of becoming teenager, puberty, all the things, did you how did you dress and how did you present? And how how was that going for you?

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah, it was going great until I went to girls private school. So when I was in when I was in elementary school, um I was still the free spirit like tomboy dressing in jeans and whatever. And then um, and then my parents enrolled my sister and I in at to Brangsum Hall. I grew up in Toronto and we went to Brangsom Hall, girls private school. And I re and started in grade seven. So I remember the first day uh of class, I showed up in what I was into at the time, which was jeans and a trench, long trench coat. And I was right, and showed up and because you the first day you were allowed to wear um civvies, I think they called them, right? You could just wear your whatever regular clothes, and then you were from then on, you were in kilts and shirts and oxfords and stuff. Um so anyway, I showed up in my jeans and my trench coat, and man, it was like the shift from nobody judging you in elementary school. I mean, there was bullying, bullies and stuff in elementary school, but like nobody really looking at your outfit and or I'm not wasn't having that experience. And then coming into here, which was like And they just hauled you into the office. Like, what happened? Yeah, right. Well, what happened was that I immediately got picked on on that first day. Like I had, you know, you had to go to your homeroom, you had to pick your desk, uh, put my things away. I put my trench coat like on the back of my chair, and then I went out and I came back in. My trench coat was on the floor, somebody has shifted my desk so that it was a broken one. And I'm like kind of looking around, going, like, okay, this this is a different, yeah, there's a different vibe going on here. And I got and there's that place of having to do the scan of the room, assess safety level, what's going on. Like these are these things that are like when you know you're when you know you're not when you know you're queer and you know you're Did you know then? Well, yeah, I mean I kind of feel like I mean, I, you know, in elementary school, I mean I was kissing girls and things. I mean, I don't know if I knew Consciously Yeah, but I mean I certainly had attraction to we girls, right? I mean, I had boyfriends as well, but I mean for me it was just like whoever I found attractive was okay. And uh but yeah, I was I felt like I was being put in my place on that first day of so what happened?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

That's a five years, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Or however long that is, what happened? Uh what happened was I kept my head down. Um I had two two friends. Uh they're still my dearest, closest friends right now. So um two people that uh anyway, the three of us just kind of found each other. And considering I'm still friends with them now, I know why we did, because they had some they have solid values and respect for people and humanity, like you know, the as I know them now. But um, you know, they were kind of quirky too. And so I think we just all kind of found each other anyway, so they saved me. But anyway, it was fine. I mean, it's just you know, like straight girls are just can be so nasty. Yeah. Like I hate to say it. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Um and then when did you was there like a was coming out a pivotal moment, or was it just a sort of ease a progression of something? Or like how what did that look like?

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Well, I was yeah, I had like no queer community at all through high school. Um you know, I had boyfriends.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Um, you know, I did, I kind of conformed to whatever, you know, I w I didn't kind of let go of my values and things. I mean, I had not all my friends did, but um, not the ones that I'm was talking about, but uh, you know, I had compassion for people and um I could see people for who they are, who they were trying to be, and those kind of things, right? Like, and so but I wasn't out. I didn't have there's a lot of people from my old high school now that are like, yeah, they're right, yeah, they're fully out, and um, and it's awesome to see, and we all kind of knew each other a little bit, but there wasn't any there wasn't any bonding that way through high school, which is too bad. Um, and so it was only when I came uh out west to go to university that uh yeah, I started sleeping with women and a lot of them straight women too. Um yeah, that was a fun thing for me. Uh I quite I enjoyed that quite a bit. Anyway, and then and then I remember my mom, my mom coming out. I must have been in you know, second year university. She came out to um to visit me from Toronto, and we were taking a little day trip down to Seattle, and we were drive, I was driving, and she said, So do you think, you know, do you think you'd be interested in having because she knew I didn't have a boyfriend at the time, do you think you'd be interested in having a girlfriend? And at that point, I was like, you know, sleeping with women um or having whatever flangs affairs, whatever. And uh and I nearly I remember I nearly drove off the I the I-5. Like honestly, I could not believe it was coming out of her mouth. And I said to her, I said, I'll tell you what, I'll make you a deal. If I if I get into if I have a long, like a long-term, I know I'm gonna have a long-term relationship with a woman, you'll be the first person that I tell. She said, Okay, deal.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

And that was just thank you very much. I would not I don't want to talk about that anymore.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

No, she wasn't, I don't want to talk about that. No, you. Oh, me, yeah. I was a bit taken aback and I was trying to concentrate on driving and not killing my mother. Um, so yeah, I and so and that was the case. I remember when I, you know, met my first long-term, which I knew was going to be a long-term girlfriend, um, long-term partner, which it was for about nine years. Um that's when I sent a fax. I sent a fax, a letter, and I faxed it to my mom. My parents were uh divorced. I sent the same one to a slightly different maybe to my mom and to my dad.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Wow. So was it was this before because it probably wasn't even email and stuff. Was there then?

SPEAKER_01 16:36

No, and I didn't want to have I don't know if there was. I don't think there was.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

90s? Yeah, early 90s.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

It was the early 90s because it was 96 or something that we started to get.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

No, no, it wasn't me 96, but it was anyway, a fax. I love that. For those of you who don't know what a fax machine is, no exactly.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Well, anyway, I wrote this, wrote this letter and then, yep, punched in their phone number, slid it in, and there you go, it came out. And then I I think I called them and said, I just sent you a fax. Can you go and read that? Because I just didn't have I knew that I kind of knew that they weren't going to say anything. Like they weren't gonna react.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

But you didn't feel like calling.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

But I didn't want to have the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

It's like the equivalent of a text today.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Pretty much, yeah. This is a long text. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway. Right. And then they were all kind of like, we knew it. I'm like, oh god, I can hate that. That's like the worst response.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

It's like, yeah, you know, it does not embrace the turmoil, inner turmoil that a person strength and the courage and all of it that it takes to just be yourself, you know, be out and be especially as the whole reason for this series is, you know, even more so being butch or mask or non-binary is another level of uh like you you were saying, like always scanning, and today do you still scan? I'm sure do you still scan the room for safety or I do.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

I do because there's been, I mean, I think I scan um it's not so much the room, I think I scan um walking on the street more. I have uh I've had some experiences on the street where, you know, I've been like shoulder checked and stuff with people walking by and things like that, or given, you know, long stares. And and so I kind of do a bit of a scan on like, okay, who's up ahead and does, you know, do I feel safe or am I gonna thr uh you know make somebody feel threatened or something? Right. Yeah. So kind of feeling it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

I I keep my eyes down a lot. Yeah, maybe I don't know whether that's good or bad, because then I don't know what's coming if something's coming. But it's like I don't want it. Sometimes when Tamara and I are walking, she looks, she watches and sort of gives me the report on people. Oh yeah, or just like especially if it's summer and I have like no sure, you know, uh sure. Yeah, you can see its flat chest, and they're like, What is that? What is that?

SPEAKER_01 19:13

You could just see the like what does tomorrow say?

SPEAKER_00 19:16

She said people really stare. People are staring, really staring, yeah. And like looking up, looking down, looking like what what is what but you've had like change room, washroom experiences?

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

There's a couple of those doozies.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Oh yeah, I have them all the time. And um I get more vocal about about calling out the women who you know come in with this shocked kind of look or comments or something. Um I get a lot, I work out, so I'm at community center, and um and when I go into the washrooms there, um, like they have they have a um like a single stall washroom that you can go in if you want, but I'm like, you know, whatever. I just more space, somewhere to put my clothes, like if I'm changing.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

There is a sign. These are city, you know, gender inclusive. Everybody welcome. Sorry, carry on.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Yeah. And so, you know, I often feel like um so when I go in there, I have to do a little cough, which sounds, you know, people can hear my voice. Right. It's not like uh uh you know, male cough. Um but I get, you know, and I think the the the hardest thing for me in in the washroom, especially is when people are in a stall and they come out and they see me and I'm washing my hands, right? And they have this um like terrible, kind of horrific, frightened look on their face, like uh, oh my God, like there's this man in the women's washroom, right? And I'll turn around and I'll say, like, I, you know, I'm an adult, I think I know which washroom I want to be in and can be in. And then, but then I'm left with this feeling of of like, okay, she thought that I was a guy, and most women know what the fear of men is like, and so not only am I like being misgendered, but I'm also concerned about her well-being because she's freaking out that she thought that she was at under threat.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

And it's like, why do I have to hold both of those? Right? Right. It's like this, you know, dual reality of like know what it's like to be a straight woman and know what it's like to be a queer person.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

You know? Um or just living in like generally like heterosexual space and queer space, right? Whereas clearly That woman doesn't even think about our realities.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Right. Right. And do you find that when you're speaking up more, is that help or different manner? It's just being pissed off. But does it help you? Or does it help like get the pissed offness out of it or um feel more empowered or something?

SPEAKER_01 22:21

I don't know. Yeah, I think it's I think it's it's about feeling more empowered for sure. Um so and I just think like it's okay to be really vocal about what your reality is and and speak up for yourself, right? Yeah, it's so invasive.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

It's so invasive.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

It is. And uh so yeah, so I can I just tend to say things like, Do we have a problem here? And as soon as I start talking, they're like, Oh no, no, no, we just thought I'm like, you yeah, well, you shouldn't then just think because you know there shouldn't be a problem here. Not everybody is going to have look like you.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

But is entitled to be in this space. And yeah, yeah, no, no, you're right, you're right. I mean, so it's a little bit of an educational moment, too.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Yeah. I want to get um t-shirts made because I find I don't know if you find this if I'm just walking into a Washington, especially airports or public places. I'll be walking in and a woman will be coming out and she'll go, look at me, and then like look up like this. Look at the sign and then look at me and then look up.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Oh, I get that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

So I want a t-shirt that said, made you look.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. Anyway, uh oh my god, the amount of t-shirts we could have made, right? I know, right? Yes, different messages. Sad.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

So what about like least favorite thing to be called? Like, do you does it bother you if you get ladies or girls, or is it it's like sir, at least they kind of get that you're butch, but if it's ladies, like what's that like for you out there in the world?

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Well, I prefer nobody really titles me with anything. Like, I don't need to be a mayor or a sir. Um, you know, I go there's only one my meet my butcher. When I go to my butcher, yeah, um, he's got a whack a young staff who are totally like on my page. Right. Um, but then there's a couple of the old dudes who are the like the master butchers or whatever. And so often, often I'll come in, they're like, sir, what can I do to help you or whatever? And I'm like, you know, sir has nothing to do with this transaction at all. Right. Gender, you know, like you don't have to, you don't have to call me anything. And plus nobody uses that language anymore. So like, and then all the young ones are kind of winking and looking at me, going like rolling their eyes and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

But the ladies, I think that's what gets me. Like, I'll be out, you know, for dinner or something, and it's just I just it's like nails on a chalkboard for me. Yeah. Ladies, it's like, what is what are you seeing here? But you know, the the customer service thing, it's like it is kind of old school, like it's a sign of respect to say sir, ma'am, but with body language, you can communicate that politeness or respect or whatever it is that you need that you feel that you need to do to your customer, like you don't have to say that.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

So, like how about hey, good morning, yeah, how do you? Yeah, what can I do for you? You know what I mean? Like, how can I help you? I mean, it's just all you need. It's so easy. It's so easy.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

So, do you when you go out every day, like do you do you think about where you're going? Do you think about what you're wearing? Do you do you kind of check yourself or like think about how people might respond? I mean, that being the end thing here is that how are people gonna respond to you in a positive or negative way?

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Like now it's a bit of a I'm just you know, yeah, I like I'll dress butch, I'll dress um like most of my clothes, uh, men's section clothes. I have tailored shirts and vests and pants and things, and um I don't really care. Um, because I think I look good enough, right? Out in the world. And um I do have people, like especially with my haircuts and stuff, people go, I like your look, or whatever. And I always go, um if I had time, if it wasn't passing somebody on the street, I'd say, what does that mean to you? Like, I like your look. I want to say, like, so what is it? Is it something you want look like, but you feel like you can't? Like, I want to have this bigger conversation with people, but it's like very fleeting. And I'm like, Oh, thanks, that's really sweet, or whatever. And I just like I want to say, I want to go for a coffee and talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

No, it is so true. Because would you say that um I don't know, in work or just social situations or whatever? Do you um do you get a lot of compliments? Like, do people say those kinds of things, or is it less of that? If you like, okay, you don't have a super Femi kind of wife, so which I do. Right. So I totally know what that like the difference of how people respond to her versus me. But I'm just wondering if you have a sense of that, that people um compliment you on your outfits or your look, or or if there's you know, a range of the way people respond from positive to negative.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

I know I've been in in events, like bigger events, like um like public, whatever, tickets to something, right? Right. And I've shown up in a bow tie and a shirt and a vest and whatever, and I've run into people that I that don't normally see me dress like that just because I'm it was it's a bit more semi-formal or whatever, right? Less casual than what I'm normally wearing. And you're like, well, you know, like you look smart or you look good or whatever. So yeah, no, nobody bolting the room, or they might have bolted the room and I didn't pay attention or think it has anything to do with me. But um, but you know, also as um like just in my profession, right? So as a you know, trained as a landscape architect, but being very hands-on and on construction sites for you know, most of my career. Um, like I'm in steel tote boots, I'm in jeans, I'm in, you know, hard hats, I'm wearing sorry, yeah. Like I don't think too much about because I've spent so many days out in the field and and wearing work gear, um it just feels like that's just it's so part of who I am. And so I don't think in all the men, because I mean obviously the male-dominated industry and stuff um and profession for the most part, especially in the construction sector. Contractors that I don't I just always fit in. And so I think I haven't paid too much attention about who are the people that are bolting for me and bolting the room.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Right. It's context, right? It's like you think about your work versus my work and different world, like it's different worlds, right? It's totally different. So um you are actually through menopause? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Well yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

For you, I know. Do you ever like sometimes I think for me, like after I had my surgery and sort of leaned more into my, you know, butch non-binary identity, when I look at my friends, like when I'd look at you and other butch friends, I'd be like, menopause? Like, cause you're kind of like it just doesn't always fit almost because it's it's so identified with women. Right. Um, yeah. And uh even breasts, like I would look at my friends and go, like, why do you have those?

SPEAKER_01 30:28

So I know childless by choice. Uh why do I have a uterus? Why did I have to experience all that bleeding all those years?

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Like there's no use for it.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

No use for it's super cruel.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

And then you get in, yeah, and then it's menopause, and then you got the hormones. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Let's do uh some quick and snappy, some some fun stuff.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

First thing you do in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

I kiss my dog. Because she's usually.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

I was gonna say if I asked you that like a year and a half ago or something, it'd be different. But your dog, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

No, but just because she's up, she's lying on my legs.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yeah, favorite comfort food?

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Ooh, chocolate.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Chocolate.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Lots of chocolate.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Any kind, dark milk. Milk. Okay. No. Uh clearly you're a dog person. Were you ever a cat person?

SPEAKER_01 31:19

I had a cat growing up.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Did you?

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Yeah, yeah, but I got attacked by a cat, not mine, but I got attacked by a cat. So no, I've always wanted a dog.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Favorite animal, pet.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

How about your favorite women's sport to watch right now, if you can choose? Sport? Yeah, women's sport. Oh, WMBA. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Hello. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Like for so many reasons. Yes, for so many reasons.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Total yeah, I'm totally addicted. Um and I will have coffee with Courtney Williams any day. Okay. Yeah. See what I can do. And Hank, thanks.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Uh would you be uh drawn to a busy Pride Parade or prefer a quiet beach?

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Pride Parade would be great. Thanks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

And then go to the beach after. Yeah, exactly. Um what kind of um song, like is there a song or type of music that just gets you up dancing?

unknown 32:16

Funk.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Because I know you love to dance.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

I love to dance, funk.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Love it. Okay, favorite thing about Vancouver or place to go or things to do. What do you love? In Vancouver?

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Um trails. Like UBC trails right now.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

It was so great.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

They're so close. They're so close.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Yeah. So now I just want to talk about, just reflect a bit and talk about representation and what it means to you. And I and I was also thinking, I was wondering if you would talk about your experience being in the in the film, not quite that, and the doing that butch photo shoot, or yeah, because I know that that you talked about that having an impact on you.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Very much. Yeah. Yeah, that whole the whole time, like the time period, like working, well being part of the making of that film, your film, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:20

So for context, Laura is married to Allie, who's the director of a film, and not quite that is a documentary, for those of you who don't know, uh, that I was a subject of, and uh uh Laura and some of the other folks that were talking to were were in it.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Yeah, that was um like I think the whole like being part of like all of it, um, all the different side conversations, the pieces that were on film, the photo shoot, the dinner parties. I didn't expect to have like that I would be impacted. Like it kind of came that voice photo shoot um um brought up so much for me because I remember just going like this just doesn't happen. Like this would never happen. Like nobody would ever come to me and say, Hey, um I'd like to take some photos of you to celebrate you and the way you look and how you are in the world. Um so I found it really profound and empowering in the sense that from when did that film when did we start the filming? It was during COVID, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Yeah, and before COVID. And just before I don't quite remember when that was, but it could have been in like 20 or 21.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Yeah. In that time frame and since that film, being I've I feel so I feel so much more empowered to just show up who I am. And I think that that the film and your story and being part of that and hearing it, listening to it unfold and being um so close to you during all of it. I think it was a bit of a shock to me, too, that um these are things that I had never really given myself some space to feel and how needed it was. And so I'm really, I'm really grateful for how the story, your story unfolded and all the things like I know that it brought up a lot for you, but I feel like I was kind of on that journey with you too. Right. And so it it made me think quite a bit about um the importance of uh just being who you are and being comfortable with who you are. And if people don't like it, you don't have to be friends with everybody, you know, and it doesn't matter, and it's not yours to fix. They gotta fix themselves and have the desire to do it. Right. So the Butch Photo Shoot was yeah, a celebration of being able to be seen in yeah, in the context of who we are, like and how we feel the best and exactly. Exactly, like the clothes we like to wear, the the muscles that we like to have. The muscles that we like to have, even you know, like I could be that weak kid and I don't have to have like a little rubber penis, as my mom once told me. You know what I mean? Like you can actually show up and stand on this stage and um yeah, be celebrated. So yeah, I'm grateful.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

You know, it just it just occurred to me, and I hadn't really thought of this, that the fact that I was hearing your your process and how it was affecting you and other people that were at the dinner party and stuff, it really helped me because imagine if everybody was just like, yeah, I don't know, like you know what I mean? Like who didn't there was a collective support? There was a collective, you know, and people kind of thinking about it deeply, and that helped because it was like, okay, if this is meaning something to people, then I'll keep going. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

So and I think that it caught everybody a bit off guard too, because I I think that um, you know, we all like to consider ourselves, you know, mature. Worked out, yeah, worked out, you know, therapied out women, right? Or queer or whatever. And um, you know, that we got it that we got our things sorted, right? And then here we are, like post-menopausal, a lot of post-menopausal butches sitting around going, like, oh my god, never thought of that. Oh my god, haven't felt these feels before. Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

And or also because we've never seen it or heard it, or true, so few conversations and representation, you know, like coming back full circle. But yeah, for sure. What are you the most hopeful about right now, if anything?

SPEAKER_01 38:02

I hopeful. Um, like, is this one of the snappy questions? No, we're past snappy. We're back to deep and meaningful. Okay. What am I hopeful? Well, I'll tell you what, I I'll tell you uh uh something. So it wasn't last Pride, it was uh a couple years ago I went to the birdhouse uh afternoon event. You might have even been there. Yeah, you were. Yeah, you were. And remember, we've kind of felt like we were the elders. Old? Yeah. So we were kind of off in the corner. We were jumping on the inflatable things, but you know, we were kind of off in the corner. It was supposed to be a pool party, but the pool never really surfaced. Um and I remember we were all talking about it, and it's you know, and looking around at the crowd, the younger crowd, and kind of how they were showing up. And and I know it was pride, but I mean, it you could tell that a lot of they would show up like that anyway. They would show up like that anyway. This was just like, you know, there's they were showing up because they were, it was the the day to celebrate who they were. And I remember thinking, like, just I just did not have any of that. Like the hope for me was like seeing that. Seeing that, and I know there's terrible things happening in especially in America right now, you know. So when you say, like, what do you find hopeful? I'm like, oh um, but being able to be in that space and kind of sit back and say, like, okay, this is not my generation, you know, but this is what's coming up behind me, and and good for them and lucky for them, and let's hope it continues. Yep. Um, so that gave me, hmm. That gave me hope that their existence might be a little bit easier than perhaps ours might have been.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Amazing. Okay. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

What a great conversation. Thanks for being a part of it.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Thanks for listening to Mr. Gendered, the show where we swap labels for lived experience and get curious about life beyond the binary. On Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok, Mr. Gender Pod, web mrgender.com, email hello at mrgender.com. That's M-I-S-D-E-R. The doc not quite that is at notquite that dot ca. Free to watch at Tellus Originals, Optic TV, and Knowledge Network.