MIS(TER)GENDERED S1 E7 GEL (KARDIAS QUING)

 | Join host Sar White in conversation  with artist and singer songwriter, GEL (Kardias Quing) as they share how navigating a Catholic Filipino upbringing and expectations informs both their creative expression and journey to self acceptance. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

I gratefully acknowledged this series was recorded on the unceded traditional territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Slewa-Tooth nations. Indigenous peoples have maintained stewardship and jurisdiction over these lands since time immemorial.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

I was like, I have a distinct memory of being five years old, and we'd always pass this like tanning salon, and there's this beautiful brown woman in a bikini poster, and I have a distinct memory of being like, Don't worry, baby, I'm gonna come see you on my way home from school.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Welcome to Mr. Gendered, the show where we swap labels for lived experience and get curious about life beyond the binary. Today, we're talking to Jell, a talented artist, singer, and songwriter known as Cardius King, who explores expression through indie, RB, and alternative pop. Let's join the conversation. Thanks for being here. Maybe you can tell us tell us what Cardius King means. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

When I first released music under a solo project, I just used my name Jell. But then at the time, who I was working with was like, you might want to come up with another one because the distributor has put you, like, listed your songs under this like Egyptian rapper whose also name was Jel. I was like, okay, okay. And my partner at the time was like kind of exploring like kind of like Latin words and cardiaus, like heart and like love kind of came up, and then the notion of like androgyny um and like holding both energies of like masculine and feminine kind of came up, and I used the word um king, which was like spelled Q-U-I-N-G, which only like maybe a year ago, two years ago, I realized that I was like, oh, that spelling is the same spelling in my grandmother's name, who is Ricking, R-I-Q-U-I-N-G. So in a way, it's like there's still some family in there, kind of written me on.

unknown 2:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

So yeah, it stands for love and sovereignty, and like sharing as much as I can of that expression, in that that's kind of what I was looking for when I was younger.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Mm-hmm. So yeah. Okay. Well, let's get to more of here and now. So you go by gel. So tell us, give us a snapshot of who you are now, like name, age, if you would, you know, any background stuff, pronouns, identities. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Um yeah. So gel, non-binary, 33. Um, very, very much a discovery year, even more, of what's going on in my background's Filipino, but I my family and I immigrated when I was one and a half. So this is kind of something that like I get to bring into my music and like my shows, is that there's a gift of in not feeling like you don't belong somewhere, especially because coming here what at one and a half, it's like, okay, you don't really feel like you belong to like the culture of like the Philippines, but then you also don't really feel like you fit in here of this new place that you're in. Um, and like I am unconventional in my family's eyes. Like, we were very I was raised and on my birth certificate is Roman Catholic. Um, and the majority of my family is like Catholic. Yeah, and so the I've realized the gift of feeling like you don't belong is like feeling the discomfort and the distortion that is the falseness behind that, because I think what's false is always going to feel wrong, and the gift is realizing you belong to everything. And and then sitting in that a little bit more, you start to have compassion for anyone who's kind of projecting onto you because you realize that there is just an undercurrent of our human experience of this desire to belong, and sometimes people distort that and like project it in different ways from their own experience of hurt and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

So maybe tell us a bit about in your I mean, if you're comfortable talking about this, I think last time we talked, you were living with your your folks and just how that's going in your family and I live with my parents and um my aunt who's staying with us from the Philippines right now, my mom's sister.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

And luckily I've I'm very fortunate and I've had moments of like immense gratitude for their support and their love and the way that they can show it and express it. I've definitely had moments where I'm like, I'm gonna soak this up and like I'm gonna take advantage of this. But it has like I've only recently been confronted with what I have been um sacrificing for that desire to be loved by them. Um and I'm like kind of coming to like a point where it's like, okay, I can't do this anymore. Like if I truly want to embody the knowing that I've come to, especially with my journey with music and like self-discovery, which is that like you are definitely like allowed to be loved exactly for who you are, kind of thing, without needing to sacrifice anything, then it's it's like strange because there's like a lot of cultural guilt of like, oh, but your family is your family and all these things. But I'm like, at what point? Because now I'm just like I've been abandoning myself. Right. For like to have like hoping that like they would there's a lot of love there. But there are the points when I express like, oh, I'm non-binary, and these are my pronouns, and it just like it's not, it's not with our faith, and like all these things, and kind of what came to like the straw on the camel's back was um over the weekend, like I had my little nibbling over Maya, and she and we were bonding, and um she'll like call me like Tito Abbey, which is like my what they've known me as, but now I was like, oh Tito B. Like that feels more comfortable for me, and she was just like, you know, down for it, call me that, and I love it, and it's the best, and I was just having this joy, and but I can also notice that it's like they're when things get uncomfortable with my family, they don't really talk about things that much, and then it's like they kind of recluse, and I can see their energy shifting. And then at some point, my niece comes in and says, uh, Lola says I'm not allowed to call you Tito B. And I was like, Well, but it's my preference, like it's it's it's what I'm it's how I identify, kind of thing, like or like this is who I am, like, and like who makes more sense to be deciding of like what I'm and to be referred to, and she's like, Well, that's your mom, and I'm like, Yeah, but and then I kind of was like, Okay, wait, I'm also talking to a six-year-old, and like we don't need to collapse. And I had a show the next day, and like obviously I wanted my aunt who's here from the Philippines to experience it and have my parents come. Obviously, I could feel the Sassmaster 5000 coming up being like, You're not invited. But then I was like, let's check let's check into that thought and be like, is that Sassmaster 5000? Or is that actually you just like holding on to your peace? And then I was like, okay, like let's just like go, like, go, let's go for an autumn walk right now. Let's get out of the house. Let's just I think before I used to think um leaving the space was collapsing, but I think some of it is also just like self-care, yeah. Yeah, you know, you're allowed to leave. You're allowed to leave when you don't feel like seen, safe, or respected. 98%, 99% of my family does not recognize like my journey or who I am and like my pronouns. So it's kind of like major, kind, yeah. And I've just been like holding space for it all, kind of trying to like radically accept them, basically uphold this net that I have that's been holding me. And um, but then and also because like my niblings, like I love them so much and feel very close to them, and I feel very seen by them. In my mind, sometimes I'm like, well, if I leave, then they won't have that representation. But what am I saying by like staying and like keeping myself small and like experiencing this kind of be like treatment from the people that love you? Some lyrics that I've written in like a small like snippet of a song recently that's elaborating of how love is everything. It's like the space in between and it's also in the leaving. Like that is love, is like also leaving, right? What you have control over is like you and like your piece and the things that you need to do for you. Because I feel like from an outside perspective, I'm so loved. And I know and I know that I'm so loved.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Well, it's just it's different. I don't know. I think it's a complex and challenging situation. Not that I think it's easier to be completely rejected by one's family, yeah. But when when you have that love, but there's also a place of not being seen, there's so much guilt and so much uh, I think, um conflict and and sort of challenge because you're you're loved, you love them, but you're also not seen. And so, you know, you're stretching yourself to love them is what you're saying, but but you also need to take care of yourself and you also need to be you. So it's hard. Yeah. I think it's hard for folks who are really connected to their family as queers, you know? Yeah. Or any any way of being different from said family.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Yeah, and especially because I know like I I know other people like fully get like the boot, you know? Yeah. So it's like to in a sense, it's like, oh, how dare you like, you know, walk away from this when people precisely.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

But you are, you know, you have come to this place of um, I know it's evolving, but non-binary, they them, like you have a strong sense of who you are right now. So where where's that come from and where do you find that strength and that that um validation of who you are, like other friends, other people, other community, like how how did you get there?

SPEAKER_02 10:43

I think for so long I was like when pronouns were like a little bit more uh into the mainstream knowledge and like discussion, right? Basically, um, I didn't want to be cumbersome to people. And so I'm like, no, it doesn't matter, like you know, but it took a hot minute, and even like some of my close friends who I've like grown up with and like in my 20s and gone through so many things with, like, also don't use them. So it's like all these old spaces, and then it was upon like meeting um actually like one of my really good friends now, Boris Mortify, he's an incredible artist. Um he's a trans um trans man, and he's like very I don't know, it's just like I s there was like a there was a frequency match there, and I was able to see like this possibility through him and his journey, I guess. People would start using she and stuff, and I would it would start to not sit right. And I realized like a lot of why I hadn't wanted was because of the people pleasing notion and like the fear of losing people, the fe like and which I did when upon coming out as non-binary, you know. So it's like okay, that's real, but also necessary because if that didn't happen, then I wouldn't have realized where these people stood.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

What about like coming out, coming out? When was that? And was that was that similar in terms of people's responses or no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Okay, I was actually literally sitting in my closet when I came out. Oh God, please tell us that. So basically, how old were you? Um, I think I was like 19, maybe. So you're in your closet, literally. Yeah. So basically I had an argument with my mom. I don't know what I can't recall what happened why we were fighting. And obviously, these fill feelings are building up and all these things. And I went to my room and I was like, I think I'm by. I remember one time coming home post that, and they like came home late and I was like, Where were you? Welcome, you're home. So kind of thing. They were like, We were praying for you. Like, oh man.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

And then I ran away, as one does. So thinking about your childhood, were there was there anything like some people look at media and say, Oh, there was a character on TV or somebody in your life or family. Was there anything that kind of influenced or had an impact on you that stuck with you that maybe helped you get to be who you are?

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Like, in a sense, like a lighthouse was growing up in um Port Moody. I went to Moody Elementary, and there was a teacher I had in grade four named Miss Moffat, who was the first person that I couldn't my brain couldn't categorize that also kind of gave me that same feeling that I was kind of having in my own experience as a child, um, of being like androgynous or like kind of thing, and it was like the first like mass presenting, like I can to this day like see their face and hear their voice and remember like the energy they had and the kindness and their like warmth, and like I'm before I thought it was just them, but maybe they also saw me and saw something in you, saw something there, and yeah, and like I've tried to I've tried to like contact the school to try to find information or look at old things, and I can't I can't at all find it. But for some reason this finds you, Miss Moffat. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

And do you and you can remember sort of quite a difference between other teachers and this teacher, and just did it make you feel something like in your body or just comfortable or something? Yeah, there was it just felt safe.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

And then then it also felt again, because when you're a kid, you don't really know. You're just kind of like, Oh yeah, give me my brother's clothes, come by give me the bowl cut, you know. You don't no one's telling you what is and isn't yet. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I think it was just more of like a mirror to be like, yeah, see? Uh-huh. Yeah. How did Miss Moffitt dress, if you can remember? Um, pretty mask. Yeah. Just like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

And were you a little okay, because I I so you weren't weren't you weren't in Catholic school yet, so you were what were you wearing those days, grade four?

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah, I was wearing like my brother's clothes. Like I wanted to, and I remember when I would reflect about that to my mom, she was like, Well, I started dressing you in that stuff or giving you those choices because you were such an active kid and I didn't want you to like fall and scrape yourself. Right. But I'm like, okay, well, there's sure.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

But it's either way, it's kind of like that was what I was most drawn to. What about you as a okay, so Catholic school, so skirts and stuff? And did you like how did you express like outside of the skirt? Like, were you during the year?

SPEAKER_02 15:35

During high school, it was confusing because I think I just didn't know and I was trying the deep desire to belong and fit in. I was like, hmm, yeah. Ink and makeup that like literally felt so foreign to me. And like when I was younger, like as just like like a five-year-old, a four-year-old, two-year-old, like I loved wearing my brother's clothes. I wanted to have the a bowl cut. There was no real representation. I didn't see what like even this could even exist as until like a shot at love with heel to keel came out. And I was like, oh, bisexuals, okay. And then it was like the L word, and I was like, okay, this is maybe something here for me. Right. I was like, I have a distinct memory of being five years old. My mom walking me to school to kindergarten, and we'd always pass this like tanning salon, and there's this beautiful brown woman in a bikini poster, and I have a distinct memory of being like in my mind, being like, Don't worry, baby, I'm gonna come see you on my way home from school. I'm like, if that isn't a sign before the world told me.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

I knew. So what's it like for you out in the world um these days? Like, do you get misgendered? Do you how are washrooms? How are those kinds of things?

SPEAKER_02 16:55

For sure. I it's funny because I think again, I mentioned this to you when you sent me your previous documentary, and I was like, wow, who knew? I'm not special and she'll just share. Yeah, but I mean, in the experience of like, you know, going to bathrooms and like older women being like, this is the women's bathroom, which was like funny because I'm like, oh, I think I would know where I'm going, even though I'm like, you know, try like visibly like masked. So then you're just I realized how much energy I was just like expending that was like unnecessary. And so that also offered me an opportunity to just like sit in my knowing of who I am and knowing that like whether that my external validates that or not, I know what like energy I hold. Um and and then obviously with people who I like are a little bit closer that I know I want to spend more time with in my life, those are the people that I kind of like correct or like remind. Um but I do get sometimes delighted when when people call me sir and things like that. Um, and only recently I've been feeling more confident to use like men's washrooms kind of thing. Oh, really? Yeah. Before it was kind of I mean, a lot of it my notion was like, oh, it smells better in the women's bathroom, especially like, you know, going out nights, like the conversations are just a little bit more fun in there, you know. Everyone's a gal scal, and they're like, no, don't call your ex and like all these things.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

And it's just fun to witness. And so then maybe just say a bit about what like non-binary specific because I know it means different things to different people. What's it mean to you?

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Um It's interesting because I've even still I'm combating or confronting the patriarchal conditionings of my brain. Cause sometimes like I'm like, well, that's not this. I want to look like this because this is more masculine, and then you know, people are like, well, like well what's what does it mean? What does masculinity mean? I think for me, non-binary is like holding it all and allowing yourself to be just like to be whichever shows up at any time, and not really being defined by either or if that makes sense, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah. And are you kind of drawn to both sides, so to speak? Like, would I see you in a dress?

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Or no, no, okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

No, that yeah, that definitely doesn't feel aligned for me. But you said that in my text. But it's more like that feminine or so-called masculine or feminine energy, so to speak, like softness or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Well, so it and so even then it's like so. I don't think softness is like the energy. I think the feminine energy is the being, it's the presence. And then the the male energy, I think the masculine is not male energy, the masculine energy is like the doing and like the taking action. And we both everyone has both energies within them at all times. Um but yeah, I mean, I'm still the thing is is that this is again, self-discovery is just like a whole journey, like it's never gonna end. And it's gonna, and I think right now I'm just uh allowing myself the space and grace to accept and hold whatever's coming up at that time.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yeah. I mean, it's I don't know. I find it my head goes around sometimes because when we talk about this like masculine or feminine, it's we're still completely informed by the culture. Yeah. And what the culture says is masculine and feminine. And but I feel like in this space of those of us who live somewhere in this middle ground, um it'd be nice if we could kind of find our own words or expression for what it is we feel in our bodies. You know, it's like you could say that okay, having your legs apart is masculine, but like, well, maybe it's just this this body who was born a woman, but like feels comfortable doing this. Is that really masculine or is that I don't know, the non-binary language or expression.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

So it is it is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

I think there's we don't always love comparing it, I guess is what I'm saying. Is like then we're just like binarying ourselves. You're still falling to the old paradigm, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Yeah, yeah. Even like I think to touch on what's also like expanded my perception and view and understanding of this journey and and being non-binary was was discovering aloke. And um yeah, and the fact that it's like there's so many countries that are like and places traditionally for years and years and years and generations and years, actually non-binary has existed for so long. Like there's there are there is a third gender kind of thing, and even just understanding the root of gender and that it is a self-identity, not like your sex or like what you were assigned at birth or all. These things. Yeah. And a lot of people don't there's a discomfort because that would require you to look at everything, to look at colonialism, to look at the pain and suffering, to look at what you've been essentially like ascribing to this for however long. And that's kind of why like the radical acceptance thing with certain people, like you, especially my family, I'm like, I get it. I 100% get it. Because you would have to literally look at, especially with religion, it's like they don't even look at the colonialism in the Philippines. They don't even look at like the root of like where that religion came from.

unknown 22:39

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

And that's a lot, that's a lot of pain to look at. So like, and to to think that like your whole life you've been doing this thing. So it's like, it's really how far people have met themselves in order to meet you. And some people just aren't ready or they don't want to, or they're just comfortable, and that's great. But I've always felt, I think as a child, I've always had tantrums. I've always been like, this doesn't feel right, or like, you know, this doesn't, and I've just been the one to be like have the conversation and yeah force my force my way because I'm like, well, that doesn't, and I feel like that's I used to think that was a cumbersome thing, and now I I see that as a gift. Like some people are here to be disruptors and pattern interrupters, yeah. And sometimes it's really uncomfortable, yeah. But again, suffering is a part of the human experience. You can you you get to choose if you're gonna suffer for no reason or if you're gonna suffer for a purpose.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

And so yeah, I mean sitting here, I really admire uh I honor your your courage for in a sense sticking with not everybody sticks with their families when when there are such um very different viewpoints, and you know, it's a lot to to stay and be with them and be curious and be loving and open, but also make sure that you're holding on to yourself, yeah, you know, and that you're not compromising, trying to find that balance between sacrificing and compromising too much for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

If I were to honor my gratitude for the people who choose to love me for who I am, it would be dishonoring that by remaining in spaces where I'm like just accepting breadcrumbs. Yep. There's gonna be so many people that I'm gonna meet that want to love me for me. And energetically, I'm holding this space for because of this.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Like, so many of us want our families to just wake up one day and go, like, oh my goodness, of course. Yeah, I totally love and get every little piece of you, but pretty rare. Yeah. It's pretty rare. Even when families are not homophobic or not religious, it's still doesn't always come, but you know, it's yeah, I mean, speaking as slightly older person, just slightly, you know, it's sometimes like to get away from something, it doesn't mean you're running away. It means that you're giving yourself that space outside of that situation so you can get perspective. Yeah. You know, it's it's not about leaving or running away. It's it's it's just it's it's a part of the journey.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

I'm very grateful for this, for this space and for being able to reflect it with you and also to like literally sit in your energy because I can't imagine the things that you've also gone through, you know? So it's like it's it's just everyone's winning, I think. Yeah, like I've very much tried to break down like where decisions in my life and just like what I'm doing with the feeling of like, does this feel contracting or does this feel expansive? Whether it's difficult or not, kind of thing. And yeah, and this feels very expansive. So I'm very grateful for this opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

I mean, I hear your you know, how challenging that struggle, if you want to call it, or just you know, the situation with your family and everything, but you're so you, like you're so come across as you. Yeah, like that's never going anywhere. Yeah, it's pretty stubborn. So yeah, well, it's interesting because you've said that, like about you're the one in the family is a little bit of the you know, disruptor. And you know, sometimes I wonder if we're as the queers are you know, we're given that little I think I was a bit like that too. Like you're given that little bit of fire to get you through. Because, you know, giving in and just being what you're supposed to be, it's never gonna work. So you either like, I mean, I unfortunately and sadly for some people, they never quite get there. But for some of us, we're like lucky enough to get a little fire under our butt as children or something that allows us to kind of like struggle our way through and get to be ourselves. Something's here.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Yeah, and I think too, I mean, when I think about especially in today's world where there's so much going on, I think the best thing to do is to like sit in your energy and be unapologetically yourself. Yeah. Because when you do that, it literally allows other people to witness that they can do that for themselves too. And it's just like holding, it's like holding the pose, essentially. It's holding the mirror.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

And I think that's the best thing. I feel like that's what it is, is just everyone's just like, you know, just discovering themselves.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

And yeah. I mean, I that's such a lesson I've learned about just literally showing up as oneself, in you know, and as as grounded and as authentic. It it actually affects people in a good way. And there's someone, you know, out there who's like watching or listening right now who's like, oh, who can resonate and relate to your story, and it's gonna mean so much to them.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

If not for like little gel, you know, yeah, really just wanting to be that representation, like the person who I needed to see and to be.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

So it's really, you know, kind of a selfish thing in that way.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Yeah, but I mean it it isn't, isn't it? I mean, I think, you know, you know, this sort of cliche things like you gotta love yourself before you can love other people, and you have to be authentic before you can, you know, affect other people. Like it it is something it is an act of resistance to, especially in our the way that we present in the world, it's an act of resistance and love for others to just show up and exist. Yeah, and it ain't easy every day at all, as you have attested to. Yeah. It's not easy, but it's the more we do it, the more we're hopefully freeing others to to be themselves, to be authentic, to be loved for who they are, to shine. So, what would you say to that little gel?

SPEAKER_02 29:50

I'd say I freaking love ya, and you're exactly where you're supposed to be, and that you are the root and the seed of like why I am choosing to be like to stand in who I am because you knew from the get-go. You knew from the get-go, and that was you were the lighthouse. So keep keep tracking on, my friend. Go little gel. Ugh. Go little gel.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Um thank you.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Thank you, truly.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Is there is there any more like you need want to say, need to say about anything?

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Like I guess to say to anyone. Yeah, out there. You are incredibly loved and supported, whether you believe it or not, because your life force literally would be out if you weren't. Just to like experiment. Experiment asking for things and knowing that you're actually in favor of them. And just see how that plays out.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Because there's there's a whole world there for you.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

You heard that from Joe.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Go get it.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Go get them, Tiger.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Thanks for listening to Mr. Gender, the show where we swap labels for lived experience and get curious about life beyond the binary. On Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok, Mr. Gender Pod, webmrgender.com, email hello at mistergender.com. That's M I S D E R. The doc Notquite That is at notquitethat.ca. Free to watch at Telest Originals, Optic TV, and Knowledge Network.