The Recovering Perfectionist
The Recovering Perfectionist
From Hard Work to Heart Work with James Gardiner
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Hello, recovering perfectionists. I'm Claire Riley, and it's here on this show where I connect with some incredible people to have the big conversations about what it means to be tangled up in the web of trying to do everything perfectly and not really stepping into our aligned ideal way of living and doing business. And being a list making, freedom-seeking professional Virgo, I love getting to the bottom of what's really going on in the various places where perfectionism rears its ugly head. And I have a really strong focus on helping to uncover some really great tips and tools and tricks to get past it and get out of your own way. So today I'm super excited to show off my guest for a few reasons. First of all, this person is a heart-centered personal and business development coach. This person also has a background in athletics and hospitality and resort management, is a motivational speaker, and they've also hosted their own TV show, which I'm sure we'll talk about shortly. But most excitingly, this person is our very first dude on the show. So welcome, James Gardner.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Claire. First dude on the show.
SPEAKER_00First dude on the show. How rock star are you?
SPEAKER_01I'm pleased to be here. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_00Awesome to have you. And I just want to do a really super duper quick um bit of the backstory. For a little while, probably the last couple of years, I've had in my head that I wanted to do some sort of mini-series called The Imperfect Man, where I really wanted to chat with guys about how perfectionism shows up for men and how perfectionism in other people impacts men and your business, your relationships, your friendships, all of that sort of thing. But it's only in the last couple of months that I started thinking, like this is really important. I really want to do this, and I've made a list of all the guys who I'd like to approach, but I hadn't kind of gotten any further. And then into my inbox pops this beautiful email from yourself saying, Do you think this would be a good time to have a heart-centered guy join your podcast? And I was like, Yes, I do. So it's all perfect, perfect timing. Nothing happens accidentally. And I'm really, really, really stoked that um that we get to have this conversation. So thank you again for coming on. So, do you want to tell us a little bit about you and your journey in a nutshell and who you are and what you do and all of that sort of thing?
SPEAKER_01Sure, sure. So uh yeah, James Gardner, and I am a personal and business development performance coach. I work with a company called Leap Zone Strategies out here in Canada. We we work with uh clients all over the world um really working on their their all at all aspects of their business, understanding their personality, their brand DNA, how to create a strategy and and implement said strategy, uh positioning, everything comes down to positioning. So how how do we uh get them to differentiate themselves uh and and then and then position it accordingly to their ideal clients? In all of that, though, is ultimately everyone we work with is a is a person, is a personal brand. And my big thing and my big contribution is really unpacking the truth in everyone. Uh, because the the truth will always, if there's a if there's a misalignment, it will manifest itself in business, guaranteed. Uh at some point it will. And uh what we want to do is is I truly believe in getting to the getting to the the core essence of who a business owner is uh and then outward uh everything is congruent when in every facet that they they that they work in their business.
SPEAKER_00Sounds absolutely perfect. And it's exactly, I guess, the space that I feel really blessed to have been working in and had you know some really great influential people who sort of taught me that sort of thing as well, and about having boundaries and showing up authentically and being honest about what you want and how you want to live and who you do and don't work with, and you know, all of those sort of things. It has such big filters, but it's it's often one of those things where you've kind of got to go through the process to understand what where you stand on some of those things, right?
SPEAKER_01So you do, yeah, you have to roll up your sleeves and do the deep work, right? You you need to get in the trenches, and it's to get to to really unpack the truth, to get to your real truth in in business or in or in life, it you have to roll up your sleeves and and dive in, you know. Um yeah, and and that the f the reward is magic. Yes, it's it's brilliant when you get it, right?
SPEAKER_00And it's a work in progress, right? Like I feel like so many times I have a conversation as well as you know, my own things, where I've gone, all right, this is it, this is I'm so passionate about this, this feels right, this is a good fit, and then you get some period down the track, whether it's a day or a month or a year, and you're something's quite kind of doesn't feel like it's the right fit anymore. And when you open that can of worms, it can be a bit scary because you've evolved past it, or it was you know a great experiment, but it was the wrong direction, or it was, you know, there's some sort of misfit. So it's definitely a work in progress thing, right? Where it's not like uh, all right, we've done that work, now we can move on with the rest of our life and never talk about it again.
SPEAKER_01So, so true, Claire. I mean, that that's the thing, is and you know, right, we even as coaches, we never stop evolving. People never stop growing. And and yeah, our truth will always be there. Yet the the I I use the middle lane analogy a lot. And and so that middle lane will always evolve as we evolve. And and what we need to do is just adjust the scope of the lane as we move forward in life and as we attract new business associates or venture out or go into relationships, uh, you know, it it ultimately has to serve us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And so, where do you start with that sort of thing? You've mentioned like personality and brand profile and brand DNA and um, you know, all of that sort of thing. Where does that sort of start? Do you do you look at things like personal values or lifestyle design or like where's a kind of good jumping off point for people who are listening who may be feeling a bit like it's not aligned, but they're not really sure what it is that they want? They don't really, you know, there's a lot of people who um in in the listenership who are perhaps uh mums, new mums, who feel they've maybe lost their identity through motherhood and having different focuses and all that sort of thing. Right. And they're starting to go, like, all right, like am I still the same person I was 10 years ago, five years ago, or you know, what's changed? So where do you kind of start to to suggest people you know starting to do?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if yeah, if we're talking the personal brand, which is you know, uh, you know, the moms, the the people at home, right, that aren't maybe solopreneurs yet or or whatnot, it's definitely it's definitely getting clear on what it is that we want. We have to get crystal clear on on where we where we want to get to. Uh not the how. Don't get caught up in the steps, don't get caught up in and and getting distracted by how we're gonna manifest it or how we're gonna create that. Um no. Once we get crystal clear on on what it is we want, the how will start to proceed itself. And the very it's always about taking the very next step, right? For I mean we at leap zone we're we're heart-led conscious business, and we grab and because of that, unfortunately, as you as not unfortunately, wrong choice of words, it's it's predominantly women because men, a lot of men aren't kind of we're swinging that pendulum a little bit, right? So we deal mostly with women and a little bit more open to this, and and you know, the men's the conscious male is definitely growing and we need more of them, right? Um and it is about getting to our own personal DNA. What makes us who we are? What are our values, right? What are our cultural tenants that we we adhere by, that we make decisions? Um and and you know, and at Leap Zone, we talk about brand DNA, and really that's that's with a business owner, that's really the personal DNA. So they're so the core values, what are you what are your decision makers, right? Who do you who do you choose to be friends with? Who do you choose not to be friends with? You talked about boundaries in your opening, right? And and boundaries are super critical. The power of no is such an empowering word.
SPEAKER_00On both sides, being told no can also test your own boundaries. And and you know, the recovering perfectionist thing we talk about often is practicing failure on whatever scale that looks like. And I always forget what book it was in, but someone suggests going into Starbucks and ordering a coffee and asking for a discount because invariably the answer is going to be no, and it's not a life or death situation, no, but just getting taught that you can ask for something and be rejected and no one's gonna die and it's gonna be okay, is kind of one of those steps, right? But it's also, yeah, like you said, with boundaries, and and I feel like I've had this conversation a few times recently where um going through the processes of startup and working with people in a business, um in your own business is a really it's almost an easier version of setting some boundaries. And when you set a boundary because you've been tested in something with your business, it actually has a really beautiful flow on effect to the rest of your life, right?
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. Because you just said the magic word, flow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right? When you when you honor yourself and you honor your boundaries, it it helps to take the push out of the equation, that force.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01And things just things just go, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um you see it so often when especially if it's a big well, anything really, but especially when it's a big decision, as soon as you've made the decision and you've acted on it because there was some incongruency or misalignment or something that you sort of saw and then you couldn't unsee and you bloody well had to make a dis like a change, right? Um, which is terrifying at the time, but as soon as you've made it, it's like you're instantly rewarded. There's always that, you know, almost instant feedback, like you shut one door and 15 other ones open, right?
SPEAKER_01100%. Yeah. And it's you know, it it it's almost becoming, I don't want to say cliche, that we talk about that, you know, the the the universe presents itself, source, source presents opportunity, right? And it's like, and it's true. This happened to me literally a year ago, you know. I I I and it and I do this for a living, and it still amazes me sometimes when it happens, you know. Yeah, uh, but when you honor yourself and you you set those boundaries, uh and you close a door, yep, all of a sudden, boom, they open.
SPEAKER_00And it's yeah, it's amazing, right? Yeah, I think so as well. And I think um, you know, people talk about it in different ways. And one thing that um I guess that in probably a couple of years that's well, I can't even remember what happened, but it finally made sense to me was this idea about being magnetic, which means if you're magnetic, you're also going to be repellent. But the more magnetic you are by being, you know, kind of over the word, but authentic, and being actually sort of just standing in, like, this is me, take it or leave it, lap it or lump it, you know, all the Australianisms I'm sure you've heard before. Um, the more that you do that, it's it can be a bit scary because it is repellent to some people, but the people it's repellent to aren't supposed to be in your world anyway, you know.
SPEAKER_02Correct.
SPEAKER_00And the more repellent you are to those people, the more attractive you are to the right people, whether it's friends, relationships, business networks, clients, that sort of thing. But it's really scary to take that first step to be, you know, not all things to all people.
SPEAKER_01It is, it is, and I think we're we're we're groomed by society or groomed by expectation in our lives that we we always need to play nice in the sandbox or we need to we need we need to associate. Yeah, right, and and worth is being liked.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right?
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, and uh so so how does that show up, especially for for guys, James, with with the the likability? Like I know um in Australia, especially the tall poppy syndrome is all about you know um staying within the status quo and not standing up too much and and and all that sort of thing. And and certainly I use the term recovering perfectionist pretty interchangeable with being a people pleaser and um being a yes girl, and you know, having to be all things to all people and being a bit of a chameleon with all of that sort of thing. So, how does it show up for guys, do you think?
SPEAKER_01You mean the the recovering perfectionist mindset? Like having having to be a people pleaser and having to fit in and and that's you know, I think I think the males in in general that there's there's expectations that males have, just like females have, right? And I think I think um what's happening now is I talked about that kind of paradigm shift, and and so there's a lot of males out there that are in this kind of purgatory of you know they they want to be more emotional, they want to be more emotionally accessible for their for their partners, for just in general. And then, you know, they walk that fine line between the the Bro Club and you know having like really heart heartfelt discussions or or being or being vulnerable. I mean, you know, and and I think I think it's a real there's a real struggle going on right now with with men. Um and it's it's a it's good on the one hand that I see a lot of men engaging in these conversations and more and more every day. And and um I you know I was just at an event this weekend and and I was surrounded by a bunch of amazing men that that truly, you know, the their souls on fire. And and it it's an amazing thing to see. Um but or and I don't like to say but and uh there's there's a lot that we need more conversations, we need more men to step up like you're doing and and and to to champion like I am to to welcome them into the foray of of being consciously aware. And I I don't know, I can't speak for for a woman, for you, Claire, but I I would assume, as I I mean, most women would love to have more conscious males in the world um showing up and doing their part and and elevating the human condition. That's just my take. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I can high-five you with that completely. High five, virtual high-five across the seas. So um something that that makes me think of is there's a beautiful um festival that I've gone to for the last three years running called Seven Sisters, which is down in Victoria. It's a women's only or um people who identify as women only in terms of the staff, the organizers, and all of the attendees and people who um do the presentations and run the stalls and everything, and it is the most beautiful, connected, open, loving, safe, uh emotionally developmental. Like I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it. There's so much worth in that weekend. Even if you went back and pretended like it didn't happen, it's kind of the unseeable stuff, right? But when I was there, when I first went there, um I was still married, I'm not anymore, but I was still married, and I also have a son, my first child's a son, he's uh seven and a half now, and I had this overwhelming, like not sadness, but just almost like a disappointment. Like, I really wish there was something like this for men and boys, because you know, at Seven Sisters they encourage um young women from about I think age 11 or 12 to come through and also you know experience that openness and the mentorship and the guidance and leadership from from you know women of all ages and that sort of thing. And I just thought, God, it's such a shame that there isn't something that I knew of at the time. There is now one I think that's being prepared. But for men, and I just think that's especially for um for men who don't necessarily want to walk around or don't feel safe to walk around in their everyday life in that sort of you know, the consciousness and the openness, then at least there could be this safe container for a few days where they can at least practice that and and start to get comfortable. I mean, five years ago, I would have probably gone to something like that and rolled my eyes and been like, what the hell is this until I experienced it. But you know, it's the yeah, I just think it's one of those things, and I, you know, having a son now, I'm so conscious, and I've got a son and a daughter, and I see my daughter she'll be fine. There is so much about you know conscious women and empowerment for women and all of that sort of thing that I almost look at my son and think, Oh, you poor thing, you're gonna be trampled on by all these amazingly strong women who you know have different sort of things. So, yeah, I guess I'm really conscious of that, and I really welcome and I'm surprised by being able to have conversations on that level with men. I'm used to having them with women now, but it's almost a surprise, and that's a real shame because I know it's there, but it there's like this stigma around no, you've got to be the the bro, you know, like you said.
SPEAKER_01Right. And it it is a shame because I even my close circle, uh, those, you know, the people that I have these type of conversations that really light me up, they're they're all women.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01They're you know, they're mostly all women. Uh probably eight, I don't know, 90% of my close circle. Um and you know, and I know that there's more men out there, they're just it's just harder for me to. I mean, I don't, you know, I'm not gonna go fishing for for friends to have beers with and have some you know heart-wrenching open discussions, but you know, it'll it'll happen when it happens, right?
SPEAKER_00Um yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I think I just think it's a really interesting conversation to have. And and um, you know, one thing that I guess has been on my radar the last 18 months since being single again, being back in the dating game, is like I said, the having some of these conversations where almost a complete stranger kind of opens up to you about these things, but then in the real life situations, you're seeing a totally different person. And I'm I just I think that's a real shame. But I think we all do it on some level where obviously you fit in and you have the conversations with the people with whom you're confident and comfortable having those conversations, but it's about having the strength and the courage to look different to all of your peers by standing up and kind of like leading the way with them as well, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that's why, you know, with with a lot of the work that I've done on myself, it's it's it's the same like James Gardner is the same, whether I'm in an interview, whether I'm on stage, whether I'm in Starbucks, whether I'm at the gym, whether I'm having a beer with a friend, it's it's the same, right? And and and there's something I I it took a while to get there, uh, and there's something very liberating about it. Yeah. And just owning the fact that whatever you want to call conscious male, like for me, masculine, feminine, I have a perfect blend, whatever you want to call it, and I and I and I I embellish in that. I love it. And then there's a sense of freedom now that I didn't have before with it. And I just I feel I feel empowered.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love it. And so one of the things you mentioned in um in your bio is about being a conscious warrior, and you've mentioned the word conscious quite a few times. So tell me a bit more about that. What does that mean?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um I'm almost, yeah, it's it's uh it's also my book, Conscious Warrior, Going All In with Love, and and and that's in its final stages right now. And it's I've I've lived a very Claire, I've been very fortunate. I've lived a kind of an adventurous, I've always been a searcher-seeker life. I I grew up in the east coast of the States, and then I lived in Manhattan and LA and Vancouver, and I've done a lot of things and I've experienced a lot of of stuff, uh, including achievements uh in at a high level in rowing in the sport of rowing, which I know is big in Australia as well. Um and I was always a warrior, like that it was always had this warrior mindset, right? I get shit done, discipline, committed, um, you know, kind of like that balls out approach, doesn't matter, right? And and and it was it was about three, three years ago now, you know, I I made a I had a what I call a jungle event, which is um, you know, I was in the jungle, I went searching for myself, and I and I decided to I decided to walk away from my family. Uh and um so I kind of stripped myself of all societal expectations and what people say I should be doing and what I you know what I shouldn't be doing and all this, and I just honored myself and and I went in the shit swamp for for for a while, right, to do the deep work. And um and coming out of that is uh you know what landed for me is my inner truth, my real truth, and uh in a state of grace. And so grace for me is love in all things uh and um leading with love. And so as I began that long trek back out of the jungle, I began to realize that I'm still a warrior, but now I'm a conscious warrior. So, you know, I I I kind of my my kind of internal intention, if you will, is is um a warrior mindset with angelic grace. That's kind of how I I show up every day.
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SPEAKER_01And um and so that's that's what it means to me, you know, masculine, feminine, whatever it is, and and um it's just a state of acceptance um and honoring myself and um and just step and just holding space for others and being of contribution. It's it's you know, that's that's what I'm here for.
SPEAKER_00I love it. I we we talk about um you know the recovering perfectionists, and it it can be a little triggering for a lot of people because people say, you know, often when I talk about being a recovering perfectionist, I'm met with things such as, oh, but I s I I'm not I'm I don't want to do things perfectly, but I um I still want to do a really good job. So and I'm like, what you can that's fine, I do I do as well. I have very high standards, and there's still certain aspects of of perfectionism that serve me really well, you know, and and my inner perfectionist has some boundaries and she's not allowed in my business, but she can polish the cutlery or she can send the Christmas cards a month early, you know, she's still got to have a purpose, right? But and to me, um yeah, getting over the perfectionism and being a recovering perfectionist is kind of the same as what you're saying. So I still have intention and ambition, and I still want to serve, and I still want to show up, and I still want to feel fulfilled from the work that I'm doing, and also to you know, fill the other cups that of people that I'm working with and people that I interact with, but it's more it's conscious, it's intentional, it's intentionally showing up rather than just um showing up and doing everything perfectly because I need that external validation. So to me it's two different things, but like exactly what you said, it's conscious intentional.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Claire, that's that's amazing because that's exactly what what I was going through my mind, and you just said external validation, and and you know, leading up to this podcast, I'm thinking, okay, well, am I really a perfectionist? Have I ever been a perfectionist? And I'm like, okay, well, I've never really one to be paralyzed by perfection per se, but but I I I equated it to that. So I used to I used to hustle and work and drive all for a sense of self-worth external in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Whether it was my rowing, right? Whether it was my coaching, my status and in, you know, having a TV show, whatever it was, it was it was for a set of sense of self-worth uh externally. And and when when I really discovered that about myself and that kind of false sense of attention and whatever whatever my my issues were, my baggage, that's I think what that's was me being a recovery perfectionist. It's like now I I I mean I do, I do it. I'm I'm I'm in front of people all the time, and but it's so it it's it everything comes in out now. It's more aligned, yeah. It totally is. And so um it it is, it's everything is internal and and it's of it's a being of service. Um and again, it goes to that it goes to that flow. Yeah, yeah. And and I guess I always will be a recovering perfectionist because I I have to be reminded of that. Like we never forget. I talk about this with my clients all the time. I don't I I don't forget and just just put it out of sight out of mind the the shit swamp that I went through to get to where I am. No, no, no. Like it it always will be there as a as a resonating um catalyst for me to to keep moving forward, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it reminds me of something else that um that you said somewhere, which was about going from hard work to hard work and putting in like what I, you know, there's lots of sort of analogies around that, but I really loved that phrase that you can still, you know, I mean, when I was an employee, I was a brilliant employee, and I would brag to people that I have never taken a sick day, and I wouldn't take a sick day until someone physically sent me home from the office because I was half dead in the you know, but if they didn't do that, I was struggling through, and I would only get sick every couple of years, but I'd end up in hospital for six weeks because I was so sick, you know. And but that's how I showed up, and that's how I got the validation. And you know, I would go through job interviews, and they always ask the question, what motivates you? And I would say, like, I love money, that's awesome, but I really, really, really like a pat on the back. If I've done something wrong, I'll put my hand up. But if I've done something right, I need some like, I need some some gratitude, you know. And so that was kind of my thing. But now that I feel like the work that I do and the people who I work with and the things that I say no to is much more aligned to my my gifts and what feels easy, and therefore it comes easy, and it's easy to deliver and that sort of thing. I still put in the same um the same um effort, but it doesn't feel like it, right? So is that what you're talking about with hard work to hard work?
SPEAKER_01100% right, 100%, right? And in rowing, in rowing, we talk about the swing, right? So, you know, you get it it it just becomes effortless, even though you're you're you're working your tail off because everything's connected and it's just becomes this this magical thing that in that sport doesn't happen every time you get in a boat, right? And it and it's the same here in business and and in life. When we're when we in that flow state, it just it's just a good place to be. Um and um and you're yeah, there's an acceptance, there's just a grace about it. I just I just find that you know we're not forcing. I don't, you know, for our business people out there, right? I don't I don't like that. I I don't want to be involved with that old world sweat equity, let me work 16 hours a day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_00Why? At least get your holidays paid for.
SPEAKER_01It's like, I mean, you know, I no, I wanna I want to live. I you know, I mean, um, I I want to reconnect. I mean, part of my journey is reconnecting to little Jimmy, right? To to my to my inner child from way back. And and every day it's like, okay, this is my this is my playground. What's what's gonna happen today, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_00So curiosity, curiosity and play have been a big theme for this year, I think. And given that most of what most people had planned went out the door, it's a beautiful opportunity to step into that and actually ask the questions like what would happen if, or I wonder how, or that sort of thing, because we've kind of you know got this beautiful reminder that things aren't probably going to go according to plan all the time, right? So it's a good opportunity.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. And and I, you know, it just just to harp on harp on that for a second, that that inner child thing. I just I was very fortunate enough to give a a keynote this weekend in Vancouver, and we I talked about that. I'm like, you know, at some point, inevitably, all of us, we're like we're in this big holding pattern, and there's this doorway ahead of us, and and through that doorway is is when real life starts, and it starts differently for other people. But when we walk through it, it's like all of a sudden we go in and we lose our innocence.
SPEAKER_02It's like gone, right?
SPEAKER_01And it's like all of a sudden, okay, well, I gotta get a job, I gotta do this, I gotta stay for retirement, I should get married now, I should have this many kids, I should drive this car. And it's like, why you know that doesn't have to be that way. There's there's no reason why we can't go back and reconnect to that kind of just that sense of wonder. And like you said, like just that sense of play, play and work always. Why not?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01Right?
SPEAKER_00And so, like for me, um, obviously having my kids who are six and seven is is also a really great opportunity because I hear the words coming out of my mouth and I'm like, but I'm not living that. And whether it's about um, you know, go outside and spend some time in the sunshine, or what I'm like, why aren't I going outside and spending more time in the sunshine? Or go play with your Lego? I'm like, why don't I go and play? Which might mean reading a book rather than working or something, and I'm trying to, you know, live um according to what I actually believe in because that's what I'm always harping on about with the kids. So that's you know one beautiful side effect of being a parent, I suppose. But what other kind of tips do you have for people who might be feeling like they're feeling a bit stuck or they're not living in you know the the lifestyle or the um the whole space and that alignment that they want to be? Where do they start? Where do they start to kind of uncover and then move away from the shit and move towards the good stuff?
SPEAKER_01Right, right. Well, each of us, each of us has a spark inside that's waiting to to ignite. And and for all of us, it may be different that you know what kind of lights that that that spark that spark. For me, for for a lot of people that I see, it's there's usually a creative component to it. So, you know, I think humans by nature, the majority of us, there's we there's a creative uh hardwire pattern in us, like there's a there's something where we get a charge, we get an endorphin hit about I want to do this, or wouldn't it be great to to do that? And dream. Why not? So, you know, like it when when COVID first hit, it was all about this is your chance. Like you you have a perfect opportunity to sit down and write day in and day out what what lights your fire? Like get back to get back to that wonder of okay, what would what would make me happy? What would I want to do? You know, um and and getting clear, going back to getting crystal clear on that, and then it's simply well what would be one step to take? What would be the very next step? Um and I for anyone listening to this, I would say your very first step is to have a consistent um check-in with yourself with with a with a pen and a paper. Not on a keyboard with with a pen and a paper to to tangibly write down some things that perhaps have gotten away from your life, have gotten out of your life, right? Um what are things that you used to love to do? Um what are things that you wish your partner would do, right? What are what are what are some of the music that lights your lights your fire, right? Because what that does, Claire, is it creates it's part of a winning ritual. So what you start to do is when you have those things, then you start to kind of put together your little daily, okay, this is my utility belt for me for my superhero mom to go to work. First, I gotta, I'm gonna watch a 20-minute video, or I'm gonna read two pages a day, I'm gonna put my music on to inspire me before I I start something. I'm gonna meditate, I'm gonna breathe, go out for a walk, whatever it is, right? Um taking time for you is the best thing that you can do first uh to and then to build upon.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I couldn't agree more, and just connecting with um exactly what it is that is misaligned and what you want to move towards. I find sometimes people are so in the murky whatever of this is shit that they can't even quite see what they want more of. It's just like I just don't want this. So even sometimes connecting with what are the elder like, you know, I I had a conversation with my best friend years ago about what would need to change, and my answer was everything. I couldn't even see what the good thing looked like. I just needed everything, like nothing felt like it was working, you know. And then listing out some of those things that weren't working helps you to clarify like what are the things, because usually it's not actually everything, right? But it gets really clear on the things that are specifically not fitting, which can be a bit of a scary thing because once you've seen it, you can't unsee it and you have to make a change. It kind of causes it forces you to stare down your demons a little bit and make some usually some decisions and some decent sort of changes. Um, but yeah, I totally agree with the the connecting to what you want more of. One of the biggest questions I ask my clients um before we even start working together, usually, is what are three things, the three things that you want to spend more time doing in your business and in your personal life, but especially good look at your business. And someone asked me that about four or five years ago, and everything that I said were the things that I was giving the least amount of energy and time to. Well, I can't unsee that, so now I have to actually, you know, put the plans in. So I agree, like getting clear and and dreaming, and you know, I feel like I schedule time in to lie on the couch and daydreaming about stuff, especially when I'm in a bit of a like stuck place, because I want to I want to get clear on, you know, if if I could wave a magic wand, what would it actually look like? And and being really clear on that sort of daydreaming part. I love it. Um, and I was looking through I used to do captain, I do captain's orders, which is sort of similar to journaling, but it's obviously writing, you know, a heap of orders from your brain to yourself about how things actually are, but it's stating them as though they've already happened. And looking back from things that I was writing 18 months ago, I was looking at them going, holy shit, every single one of these things is now in my life consistently, from the place that I live in, the location, the city that I live in, how I spend my days, who I work with, how much money I make, all of those sort of things, because I was really crystal clear on like the that was not negotiable. I didn't, as you said at the very beginning, I didn't know how I was going to get it, no idea, absolutely no idea. But that's what I wanted, and that's what bloody happened. Like it's it's so powerful, right? Um so the whole dreaming and the intention setting and getting clear on that sort of thing. And then do you think the next part of that is actually, you know, you've mentioned sort of breaking it down and just taking the next step and making small changes and you know, getting really micro on some of those planning things to actually come up?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, ultimately, I I believe everything does need a plan. Most things need a plan. I mean, nothing is built without a blueprint, usually in the world, right? There's a design. So at some point, um, you know, there there should be a strategy involved. And uh when we get clear in what we want, uh sometimes it's easy to then reverse engineer from that. So, you know, I had one client recently that she wanted to uh you know uh have a really hard discussion with her husband and and and move on in in a in a different um different way. So um she got clear on that and then she figured out when she wanted that to happen.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, right?
SPEAKER_01And then worked her way back. Okay, so you know, this month is gonna be this focus, I need to do this, and just you know, that's that's the the the reverse engineering, and you can take that right down to the micro level into you know, week one, week two, week three for business owners, right? Whatever whatever we're working on. Um But you you touched on it, Claire, what you know the the most important thing though is to really you need to you need to prioritize. Um you know, like you those big three things were weren't the three things that you were focusing on, right? Um and and understanding um uh we call it a decision funnel, but but having a way that you can you can assess is this is is anything, is this strategic alliance of business, is it a good fit?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01What what does it mean? Like we take the steps through of this decision funnel, yeah, right, to see if it's a hell yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right. Otherwise it's like, no, right. And that's again about boundaries, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's about boundaries, and it's to me, it also reeks of fear, i.e. perfectionism, like, oh, I've got this goal and this is what I'm working towards, but oh, there's a shiny object over there, maybe I'll go and do that. Because if they go and look at all the shiny objects, they're always derailed and distracted, but they've got a really good reason why they didn't do that thing. They do. Really nice, like convenient distractionslash derailment kind of thing. And I think exactly, you know, I'm I'm I think it's a it's finding a bit of a balance between being open to opportunities because sometimes they do come in and you like you know that they're right. Sometimes they come in and they literally are just a shiny object that was never going to be a good fit, was never gonna move you towards your goals, and sometimes it's you know, it's it's a it's a process that you have to go through to get really sure and okay, well, that definitely wasn't it, I'm definitely going back over here, and sometimes that's a good kind of test, I suppose. Um, but yeah, I think like you said, having having the self-awareness and and some of those tools, maybe it's an accountability but excuse me, accountability buddy, a coach, a friend, someone who you trust implicitly to bounce these things off. And I'm so blessed that I've got a few of those in my life. We call them they they have permission to shoot me with a water gun, and occasionally they'll see something that I'm doing online, or I'll say, Hey, I'm gonna do such and such, and I'll get a gif of someone shooting a water pistol at me. No, back on here, come on, we're over here. You know, some people who will just keep me on the straight and narrow.
SPEAKER_01That's good, that's good. I like that idea.
SPEAKER_00I think it's really important, and and you know, with respect, sometimes I have to say, no, I know it looks like a shiny object, but I've taken I've gone through my process and I it is aligned and I believe in the blah blah blah. Sometimes it still goes completely wrong, and that's okay. Um, but yeah, I agree with you to to have some sort of mechanisms in place that help you to make informed decisions about where you're going to spend your energy. Otherwise, that's where you end up doing the 16-hour days, making no money, having no time for friends, and actually and your focus is dissipated usually when that happens, right?
SPEAKER_01And yeah. Um, and and ultimately, no matter what decision is, if it's business, if it's personal, and someone's wanting to start, uh you know, it's it's that age-old phrase. How do you eat it eat an elephant? Well, just one bite at a time.
SPEAKER_02One bite at a time, right?
SPEAKER_01That's the way to do it. So you just gotta momentum is the greatest gift anybody can have. If we feel instinctively like we're making momentum on any task, we're good. When we feel like we're not making momentum, that's when we go cuckoo. Yeah, right, and we start to self-implode. So set yourself up for success. Don't sign up for a marathon if you've never run more than a mile, you know, or what I I mean, be reasonable. Be reasonable about what your your game plans are and work yourself up accordingly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Too many people don't set themselves up for success as efficiently as they could.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_01And I think well, that's why they that's why people like us are in business though, too, right? I mean, right, ultimately, it sometimes people need to to have that objective outside of the picture frame viewpoint and and and coaching or advice, right? Or whatever it may be.
SPEAKER_00Just a sounding board sometimes, isn't it? And you know, I meet with my biz besti once a week, and we have about 10 minutes each where we talk about what our focus is for the week. And so many times I go, This is what I'm gonna do. And I've either picked off too much and she's said, really? Yeah, fair enough. Let's go and take a few things off the to-do list this week. But often it's just going, I'm gonna do this, and she's like, Do you really think that's the problem? And you know, you can actually have someone to sort of re- I mean you've got to be picky, I think, about who you choose to do that, but it's not someone who doesn't know the ins and outs enough to be objective or to give you know decent advice in their in their own thing or whatever. But yeah, and I think you know, setting um milestones for those big goals, whether that just looks like just chunking it down and doing the first things and that sort of thing, but stopping and celebrating along the way. Like I'm classically, as most of us are, especially you know, when you've got your own business, you're kind of wearing all the hats, and there's always something to do that we tick something off, right? Right, we're done. Where's what's the next thing? Move on to the next thing, but there's no time to stop and celebrate and reward ourselves and and really kind of feel into like the success of it and do the coasting thing for a little while. Like, oh, that was amazing. Instead of striving 100% of the time, let's just coast and enjoy this for a bit.
SPEAKER_01Yes, right. I love I yeah, I love you. I love what you're saying because it's it's so it's so true. Because A, we I I think we feel like we're not supposed to give ourselves a pat on the bat or back, and we're not supposed to, you know, enjoy our success. No, we are. We are, and I love what you said about coasting. Um I I I talk about this all the time, and and because of my athletic coaching and and business coaching, it's like every high performance athlete has recovery weeks built into their training plan. Why? Because growth happens in the recovery phase, adaptation happens, right? You you're as you in business, as you go and your foot's on that gas, or life, or an athlete, right? Your your residual fatigue begins to rise in the body, right? Right. And it's the same in business.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's like schedule, schedule your down week. Schedule a time where your your your output goes down, and and and it's like that's the coast, that's the recovery. And I swear to God, when people do it, it works all it works. Yeah, it works.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, um again. Getting getting them to understand that mindset is a Huge thing. And even for for people that aren't in business, it's about giving yourself permission.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right? To to take take your foot off the gas.
SPEAKER_00No. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01No. And when you when you do that, when you honestly do that, you're you're more present and you actually enjoy more. And then you come back to to the to the when the serious shit a lot better off and more equipped to handle the situations.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I feel like we could just keep talking for the next 10 hours and probably still be really enthralled in this conversation. We should. We should. Let's keep going.
SPEAKER_01We'll do an overnighter. We'll do an all-day for you and an overnighter for me. There we go.
SPEAKER_00This is a 24-hour podcast. Just rock up and listen when you can.
SPEAKER_01That would be one hell of a show note. Let me tell you.
SPEAKER_00Can you imagine? It's already going to be one hell of a show note. Thank you so much. I've really, really dug this entire conversation and where it's gone and the ins and outs. And I think there's probably more conversations to come. But I'm sure there's going to be people scrambling to find more about you and your work and that sort of thing. So where's the best place for them to find you and connect? Sure.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Well, you can go to leapzonestrategies.com. I'm sure you'll you'll post it in the in the comments and stuff. Yep. So leapzonestrategies.com. My page is on there. I have my own website page on there. You can find me on Facebook, James Gardner. I welcome uh welcome people into my world. Um and uh I'll also uh put a link there for some invites if anybody would like a uh a clarity call with me just to just to chat to see uh you know what's what an objective viewpoint might be able to to help them and spur them on uh inspirationally wise. So I would welcome that, Claire, with your with your amazing audience. Right. And um it was a pleasure to be here.
SPEAKER_00Excellent. Awesome chatting. I really, really loved it. I loved that you were my first dude on the show. It was a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful conversation. So thank you so much for your amazing insights and and some of the tips and the strategy and just the inspiration. It was awesome. So thank you again for coming on and thank you, beautiful recovering perfectionists, for listening or watching the show today. Um, as always, if you love it, give us a rate and review thumbs up and share it with your friends. I'll speak to you next time. Thanks everyone. Bye.