The Rule 69 Podcast #2. The Etchells 22 Worlds

World-class San Diego sailor Alex Camet is sailing in the Etchells 22 Worlds, which are heading into day three of a week-long regatta, and joins us for the Rule 69 podcast.

While their results are mixed (as basically everybody's are), Alex takes us inside the game, in terms of starting, managing the course, the new technology in the class, and talking about the psychology of being in good or bad shape in a race, Enjoy!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Uh yes, yes indeed. We're back to this crappy music. Hey, the Rule 69 podcast, podcast number two. We're doing something a little different, a little more informative, a little more up to date, as opposed to my sort of usual ramblings about nonsense that nobody cares about. I've got more nonsense that more people care about. The Etchels 22 worlds are going on in San Diego. I know it's a big deal, Capital B, Capital D, because the Etchels 22 fleet in San Diego, you know, it's Uberalis, it's Etchels 22, you know, it's synonymous with San Diego Yacht Club. And of course, uh, some of the excellent sailors that have are are in the class and have come out of the class and have done really well. Um and, you know, it's uh all week long, and there's uh what 80-something boats, I think. And uh I've got a San Diego on top. Uh well, actually, let's just call a Southern California person on top, but it's USA 12345, Kiwis, Aussies, uh, Americans, Aussies, Americans, Americans, Americans, Aussies, Aussies, Aussies, Aussies, Hong Kong, right, in 18th. And uh Great Great Britain in 20th. And at the top of the fleet is Jim Cunningham in Port Beach, John Somney in second, Judd Smith in third, Austin Sperry, uh fourth, San Diego and Chris Bush in fifth. That's pretty good. So today joining us on the podcast is uh Alex Comet, world-class sailor, great etchels sailor, and he got hooked up with a book called Warpath, uh, owned by Lauren Howe and steered by Matt Reynolds. And um let's say hey to Alex. How are you, buddy?

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Hey, how are you? Good, how are you? Good, good. Plugging away here, trying to stay above the fold here on the uh etchels results here at the world.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Uh I can I I can imagine. So I'm I'm looking here, and we're not gonna dwell on results too much because they're not all that great, but you're curling 30th, and I'm looking at your I'm looking at your finishes, and uh race one was a 42, not stellar. Race two, a ninth, which is mighty fine in a fleet like this. I mean, if I imagine if somebody could roll off all top nines, you you might win the regatta. Um, just because uh as I'm looking at the results, and this isn't this isn't to be unexpected from any big regatta, there's a lot of ups and there's a lot of downs. I'm looking at Rick Merriman, for example, in 30 seconds. Rick's a good sailor, he's been sailing in the Etchels for quite a while and had some success. He started off with a 50th and he f and he has a second in the third race. So, you know, it's just there's a lot of reasons to explain the up and downs, and it's generally not uh the particular boat. It's not Rick Merriman suddenly like really sucked in race one and is suddenly a genius in race three uh race three. It's not that at all. He's good all the time. There's just a zillion factors that go into this, right, Al.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Yeah, and and the difference is 50 feet is 25 boats. You know, you've got, and and that's where, you know, we're it's like feels like Formula One. Hey, we're a couple tenths slow, and that's the difference between being on the podium and not, and that's what's happening. And you've got, you know, almost 80 boats out there, you get a couple bad, bad lanes, and you don't get clear air. And on top of it, it's lots of chop, very light air, very shifty. We're on the edge of our you know, fog line with our May California or mainly Southern California, May Gray. So you've got this fog line that you know pulses in and out. And if you're in the sun, it's a little bit nicer. And if you're underneath the fog line, you know, there's different winds. So you get this pulsing wind kind of with a few cap paws here and there that changes your, you know, your heading dramatically, and that determines whether you're attacking or not. And then you know, you're trying to reduce the amount of tacks, but sometimes you just can't, you know, you can't avoid it. So uh you get a little bit of a ping-pong going and and you're out the back, and there's just really no lanes because everybody's thinking the same thing you are. So uh it's challenging for sure, but uh but exciting to see all these boats here in San Diego. I'm I'm impressed to see the Etchels class is doing great. Uh, you know, I've been in the Etchels class for over 30 years, took like a 10-year sabbatical, and uh got back into it now that it's in San Diego. So the the class as a whole is doing great. There's a tremendous amount of technology that's involved now with the Vaquero system. The amount of data is just unbelievable. Uh the yacht club's doing a great job. You know, we've got a tremendous amount of social media. We're getting uh notifications now through the WhatsApp for everybody. So we got weather briefings, everything's coming out through the WhatsApp. So the whole social media, Instagram, you know, knowledge or experience is is fantastic. That's something that you know I'm not totally used to, which is a newer thing, and uh it's really cool to see. But the nice thing I think in in the Etchels class is the camaraderie that we've had for forever in the class, which is great, and that's still going. And we've got you know the old folks that have been in there forever, like me, and they're pushing on those traditions onto the new guys. You know, we're sailing with uh with with a guy that's 20 years old, and he's obviously our technology guru because you know, I'm too old for that. I'm just used to a compass. So it's it's really fantastic to see. And along with the tradition, is you know, middle of the regatta Wednesday night tonight. Uh, luckily we've got way in a midweek way in before the dinner, so at least we'll all show up to the dinner so we can eat. But you know, it's blue blazer. So uh I like that tradition. It's it's it's uh it's going away, unfortunately, but I appreciate it, you know, and we can wear our our yacht club tie and and the burgee. And and that's really nice to see that tradition going along with uh the really good camaraderie that the class has. Uh but I'll I'll I'll tell you that the level of competition in just a little bit of time that I've been out of the class uh has grown tremendously to the point where you know this is almost a full-time job to uh a full-time fun job, uh, is really what it is. And the amount of data and things that you can analyze, you know, where you combine your uh boat data using the Vaqueros to your GoPro camera that's mounted on your transom, you can sync that up with your tax and jibes and everything you're doing. So you're learning constantly, right? And and this truly is a is a a place for professional sailors. And you know, they thrive in this business of sailing uh in this class as they do in the J70.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Sure. You know, it's interesting. You you touched on a couple things. First of all, I want to just sort of reiterate what what Alex said about the weather. Excuse me. You guys are sailing out in the ocean, and um this time of year is almost exactly as you explained, and it's it's often miserable. I mean, it's just you know, you talked about being in the sun and you're sort of golden and being maybe stuck over somewhere else on the course, and it's all kind of gray and it's shifty, and it's weird, and it's really, really hard to be consistent in consistent conditions in San Diego. And and Alex also mentioned something that's also just mind-numbingly awful is the chop that's out there. And one attack is four tax usually not so bad, starboard tax usually awful. And I don't know if you guys have much of the way of kelp out there this time, but just that general overall May grade this time of the year, sailing outside of Point Loma in San Diego is usually not great. And so that's that's like that's the first thing to sort of deal with. I I I love how you mentioned the technology and and how things have changed. And just for example, how you're talking about uh using WhatsApp and and the different social media venues that people are using now. That's that's now the way of the sailing world uh on on a large, large level. All the big regattas, all the big classes, they're really they're really all about that now. And and the vaqueros thing is a very interesting thing. And tell us how does er does everybody have to have a vaqueros? Is there is there uh something else to use that's equally as good, or is this just the way it's going? It's what people are using, and and the race committee, I'm assuming, is using variations of this as well, correct?

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Yes, I I don't think there is an alternative to it, and I don't think you can have an alternative. Potentially you could, but I'm not aware of it. So everyone has the same system and we're running Race Sense. So every buoy has a basically GPS type of positioning system. Uh we are now, we you know, you don't need to carry a watch because all of a sudden your what you was your old compass now has a display and it tells you new start in 15 minutes and it starts the countdown automatically for you. It tells you where the starting line is, how many meters you are off the line, um tells you your heading, tells you your boat speed, tells you your heel angle. And the savvy guys, the youth who are out there, tell you that you can now go upwind on starboard and press a button and it'll take your angle, and you tack and you press a button again, and all of a sudden it tells you where the wind direction is coming from without having any wind instruments on the boat. So super helpful because it gives you time and distance to kill to the start. Um, so you know that's assuming that it's perfectly flat water, you don't have any boats around you, but uh it does give you an idea of where you are. Uh, does it make it more complicated? Yes. Are you happy to have a fourth person versus sailing three up, which we used to do? Yes, because you have a person dedicated to the technology, and that person is constantly telling you, you know, faster or slower. And then the rest of you are working the main sheet, the jib, and steering and trying to protect your hole and trying to accelerate and trying not to be over. So it's changed the way that starting happens. I I think it's a terrific technology for everyone, and I mean Corinthian and professionals as well. Uh, the the old school professionals will tell you that this isn't fair because now your starting ability or advantage is now gone because everyone is on the line. So there's no there's no second or third row starts now because everybody's on the line. So now the starting lines have to be a little bit longer instead of one and a half times the length of the of the boat, it's probably two times. So so that makes it interesting. So you can't say I'm gonna start in the middle and and take advantage of the dip. Uh, you you know, you're you're all there. And if you don't take the line bias, then you're behind, and there's you know, 75 other boats that uh that are ahead of you, and and you know, you sail a 1.8 mile beat, and there's no room to come in on port at the weather mark because they're all bowed astern, and and there's your you know, 50 feet of difference puts you in 25th place if you were up in the front. And imagine sailing with a little bit of bad air and then having to tack a bunch of times, and you know, all of a sudden the spread gets to be pretty pretty dramatic.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

So and and and once once that spread starts to get anywhere near towards dramatic, it's like there's gotta be a a choking in the throat, a a pit in the stomach, kind of like, oh shit.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Like well, yeah, and and and like you're saying, you know, the the amount of chop that's out there is insane, you know, like the bow going under in a wave upwind, and and uh, you know, yesterday port tack was really brutal to the waves. And you know, typically May is supposed to have, you know, the reason for the world's being in May is that we're supposed to have better wind, you know. Uh and and it does work. When the wind comes in, it comes in great. And you know, we might be getting to that a little bit better breeze today. Uh, but you know, when the May Gray is on the edge there, it's it's challenging at best. And you know, you could be sailing up wind with five guys in a row on port tack and one guy's up, the other guy's down, and then you cross the tide line as well, and that changes, you know, changes the angle as well. So, so not easy, and and sailing shouldn't be. And then if it was easy, everybody would be doing it. But you know, it's it's a very challenging event, and uh, I think everyone's you know embracing the challenge of it, and and it's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

And uh it's interesting because you know, you you and I talked about this a little bit before we came on the air here. And the um the thing about these little magic boxes, I had a Vercaro system on my J105 for a while, and I liked it. Uh, I did I thought the screen was way too small for a J105, but I see fur naturals and smaller boats like that. It's just fine. But you know, the thing about information is it's awesome and then it's horrible. And the pro and the problem with it is you have to pay attention to the information all the time in this sort of ever-changing environment that you're in. And so I I'll bet your head, even though the your your younger guy is the tech guy, I'll bet your head is in the boat a lot more than it used to be because you're constantly looking at the information on the screen instead of what you normally used to do when you you you harken back to the glory days of just the compass. You know, you're not looking, you're sure you're looking at the compass every now and then, but you're otherwise, you know, getting the data the old school way, right? It's what you see, it's what you feel, it's it's that, those sort of those sort of things. And now, how I mean, does it take away from what you're really good at, or is it do you find it to be a tool that adds to your skill set?

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Well, I'll give you an example. You you round the lured mark and you're sailing up wind now at 2.5 knots because you have spinnakers coming down on you, you have chop, you have the guy just on your leeward bow, and everyone's pinching and you're doing two and a half knots, and then someone says, Why are we only doing two and a half when you know we were doing five and a half before? So, you know, in the old days, not too long ago, we didn't know what the boat speed was in the Edgewell's class. So all you had to do was beat the guy next to you. So it didn't matter if you were going two knots or 17 knots or three. You know, it's so that's the I think that's kind of a big difference, and it gets a little frustrating from that perspective. So you need to have, you know, you've got too much data in some senses, but you have you know, just enough data as well. So it's it's it's being able to filter out what's necessary in the moment uh and use that technology because now instead of going 2.5, if you're going 2.6, you could, you know, you're doing better than the guy around you. So so those are the things you gotta work around, you know, over time to make sure that that technology is really helping you instead of making you feel like you're going slow.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Yeah, sometimes, you know, it's better not to know. It's better to like, hey, we it feels pretty good here, you know. Hey, we're we're a little faster than those guys. You know, some it used to be that was good enough. Now that's not even that's not it at all.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

It's forget how you think forget how you think is bliss, right? I guess. But uh now you've got all this data. So, you know, we're having a a briefing this morning to discuss yesterday, and it's like, oh, I did live that. I don't know if I want to go through it again, you know. But there's there's plenty of data out there which is really fantastic. So if you want to learn, be better, and go out and test, you know, that is fantastic what this Vicero system offers. And does it make it better for everybody on the race? I think it is very encouraging for Corinthian programs, let's say, you know, a mom and pop program that wants to go out and go sailing, and you say, Oh, I'm mixed. It's you know, I'm in mixed company here with professionals and non-professionals. Does the vaqueros help me? Absolutely. It allows me to have a better start against all of them. So we have a more even playing field from the gun and gives me an opportunity to mix it up with the big boys, let's say. Yeah. So I think that's excellent. Um, do I think the level has changed? Just like in everything, it has 100%. You know, you're looking, you're looking at Formula One and you're talking about a couple tenths. Yep. Here we're talking about a couple tenths, and all of a sudden you're in the difference between being in first and being 25th or maybe 50th. So it is, as in every sport, it's becoming very technical, and you're talking about inches and not feet. And that's that's great, but that's just the world, you know, it's the way of our world, right? We have this technology that allows for this and uh embraces it, and uh it's super helpful.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

It's can be yeah, I could see, I mean, it is. It it is, and sometimes too much information is sometimes too much information, but I think if it's used, like for example, the starting line, I mean, there's not that much more, there's not much guessing anymore. I mean, the the thing is telling you how many meters on the line and that sort of thing. And so, you know, it's it's sometimes it's hard to to look at that thing instead of like, well, I'm just gonna, I just know where we are. I know, you know, I have a good I have a gut feeling. The problem with gut feelings is we've guys like you and I have us old folks have relied on gut feelings forever. And um, you know, you just get a sense of things, and sometimes your sense is right and sometimes it's wrong. The friggin' box is never wrong.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

And so yeah, the box is very, very honest with you, and uh you can't lie to yourself.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Brutally so, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Yeah, it's uh it's it can be humbling, and uh, but you know, overall, I'm gonna tell you that it's it's a great thing, it's a very good thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Does it have a does it have a uh like a you suck button? It would be really great if like you got a bad start, and the vaqueros knew that and it just came out with this flashing red light with like you suck, you suck, you suck. That's what they usually do that.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Maybe it's called Dave, and it comes back to you and tells you no. And yeah, it could, you know. Scott, you blew another start, and you get with it, please.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

This thing is wrong. I didn't I didn't blow it. Turn that thing off. We're not using it anymore. Um, let's talk about some stuff on the water. Um, so please tell me because I'm sure I'm sure you wonder why as well in a lot of ways, but nonetheless, so you guys opened up with a 42, but that's on race one. And then race two, you got a ninth. Tell me the the primary difference between those two finishes.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Oh, getting a good start. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

I mean, it's it's 90% of it, right? So uh as soon as we get a good start, it you know, and you've got clear air and you have an opportunity, you you're doing well. And then if if you don't have a good start, you have to either decide to go to lured of people, right? Sail through their bad air to get to a corner, or you decide to tack and go through the group, and then you're sailing up the middle, and then you're missing some shifts. And if you're not on the lifted tack, even if you're already out to the side, like if you're taking a header back to cross the group because you think the right is now favored, that little bit, you know, two, three degree header is significant. And if you missed a little bit of pressure, and you know, there's all the things that that can happen start to happen, right? And just little small things start to accumulate and they turn out to be a big thing. So it's it's a struggle because you you know, you can't get out to a side, you you you're limited, and then you're sailing extra distance. So everything kind of compounds. So uh a good start, clear air, the opportunity to tack, take a couple shifts, you know, puts you in the top 25 boats. And then it's like, okay, so now we're closer to clear air, we manage the leg a little bit better, catch a couple good shifts, and you know, you could be top 10, and that and that's what happens, you know. And and we in in our ninth, we actually started at the pin, the big shif came in, we tacked, we crossed the whole fleet. We were actually first at the weather march. Jeez, you know, and so we're like, whoo, this is good. And you know, and we slowly bled as we went along, just because you know, you can't cover the left and you can't cover the right, you know, you're trying to do the best you can, and you're gonna miss a couple little shifts here and there. And it's a two mile beat. So, you know, the one person that goes out and does one tack is probably gonna do okay. You know, and you're trying to to protect either side. And and the reality is that you don't know 100% what side's gonna be favored because you're looking at the boats and you're like, oh my gosh, that guy behind us is up on us. We better get out to the left, and then you look and you're like, oh, well, the guy to the right is winning now because he was in better current for a little longer. So there's a lot of uh of questioning of your decision, and then you start to to you know to try to anticipate, but it's like, should we protect the left, should we protect the right? So, you know, being determined is a challenge as well, because all you can really do is win your side, let's say, and and then you gotta just hope that the chips fall where they may and it and it works out for you. And that's go ahead, you know, and you're trying to be uh adaptive and be dynamic and all that, but at some point you you just end up losing because you feel like you're chasing tail.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Yeah, that's true. Do you let me ask you from a just a psychological perspective? So when when you get off the line in good shape, you know, it's all puppy dogs and flowers and rainbows and and sweet candy. It's like, yes, okay, great, awesome. We're we're really, really good here. And at least mentally, you know, it's like awesome. I mean, I'm I'm in a position where like, all right, okay. But conversely, when you when you get off the when you get you know you're getting a bad start. And for me, it's like crushing. It's like, because, and now in a fleet, let's just say I'm in this fleet and I've gotten a terrible start. I know my race, my day, and probably my regatta is just trashed. And it's hard to not get, I get in that mindset, but I just feel like it's a defeatist mindset because I don't see the uh I don't see any upside out of this. I don't know how we get out of it. And so for you, when you guys are like, just you personally, in this regatta specifically, when you're in a bad, when you're in a bad spot, what do you like mentally? How does that affect you? Just go, okay, it is what it is, let's just let's work, let's pick off a couple boats here and there and let's do what we can do. Or is it like, shit, I don't know, maybe let's just bang this corner. I mean, do you how how does that work for you?

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Well, a couple things. Uh, puppy dogs and rainbows don't come in to my mind when I have a good start. I think, you know, and it depends how competitive you are too, right? So I for us it's it's it's it's a very freeing feeling where you're like, oh great, we have opportunity here and we can do a good job as soon as you get a clear air and a good start. When you don't, it changes the game a little bit where you're you're trying to weigh out let me take a step back. You realize that it's not working out for you. You know, like we started the last race yesterday, and all of a sudden it was it we were down by the pin and it was a big right shift. And it's like it's up inside of us.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

God damn it.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Hey, yeah, so so we have to you know determine what to do. Do you say, is it a persistent shift and we need to go and just take all the transoms and get to the right, or is it gonna be oscillating and we have an opportunity, so we just gotta kind of hang it out a little bit here on the left and wait, and then all of a sudden it does, it gets headed, and and you can tack and cross. So that managing that on the mental side is is is really important. And I think that that comes with experience, and the quicker I think the quicker you can get over this didn't work out and coming up with plan B and sometimes plan D, E, F, you know, and B, if it's really just you know, really going against you. But I think the quicker you can do that, you know, and maybe some people that's dropping a couple F bombs, and then you just you know rethink your brain and and you keep going, and then you say, Okay, well, this is this is the reality reality that we're in, and we're gonna do the best we can to make it better.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

But conversely, Al, conversely, like you said, you don't see puppy dogs, and you know, and I do. And so so can you say with some accuracy that okay, we got a bad start, whatever it might be. That's it. That we don't dwell, we don't dwell on that, we don't think about it. Now we'll just try to pick them off and see what we can do. Conversely, you get a great start, but you also don't think about that either. You're like, okay, here's where we are. This is great. Now let's see, let's maximize this to our best ability. I mean, I think it's the ability, as I'm as I'm talking here and and and sort of thinking this out, it's the ability to drop what just happened and forget it and then make the best of what you've got, no matter whether it's terrible or whether it's good, right? Is that how you look at it? Like you just charge forward no matter what?

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Right. It's it's it's compartmentalizing everything and saying, nice job on the start, guys. Okay, let's go to step two. With step two is the you know, first quarter of the beat, and then it's you know, the middle of the course, you know, the the 25 to you know to 75% where what we're doing, playing some shifts, and then the last quarter of saying, well, we need to start either going right or we're gonna have to come in on a on a on a port approach. You know, we got to watch out for ley lines, we got to watch out for traffic, we got to, you know, make sure we actually don't tack in the three boat length zone and so things like that. So uh you absolutely break it down into compartments and and little bits and little victories and you know and little defeats, and uh and then just keep moving and you know, and you have to because the other thing is you just get mentally bogged down, you know, and and you notice that where you you do, you're going along, and all of a sudden you need a you need like five or ten seconds to space out and regroup and then come back and be like, okay, here we go. Let's let's you know reanalyze this, let the let the brain reprocess and then uh move forward from there. And I think that's a huge piece of the game, is those that do well are those that adapt, and they're the ones who you know take the situation, realize it didn't work, and move on and say, okay, this is our new reality, and how do we make execute a game plan from here using the information that we have?

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Yeah. So, you know, I I I've never I haven't really done a lot of big fleet sailing, and when I have, you know, I'm very I'm never a particularly good starter when there's so many frigging boats. And you've done a lot of big fleet sailing, and you certainly have one year's share, and you've you've you know, you're a good starter in general. And so the the approach to starting in a big boat fleet like this, where you know, most of the any and not anybody, but a large percentage of the fleet can win. Like any one of these guys can win a race. You guys don't, you know, you can win, you guys could win the first race today. You know, there's a bunch of guys. So how like what's the approach just in a general, I don't I don't expect you to like, you know, reveal uh thousands of words is how you do it, but what is like the general like couple things that you do differently in a big fleet like this when you're thinking about the start?

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Well, the probably the biggest thing is you never get below the line too early. So this is what's interesting is that three minutes, you know, five at the five-minute gun, you're above the starting line, usually in the middle of the line. And you're doing a couple more wind checks because you're you're trying to stay in the wind so that you can maneuver. Because if you get below the line, that's everybody's bad air, and you can't maneuver as well. So we stay above the line, we do constant wind checks, and at three minutes we decide to dip back below the line. So we're 60 meters above the line, and then at three minutes we turn down and we cross the line and get down to you know 60 meters or 90 meters behind the line, depending on the wind. And you've already committed to your side, so you start to go kind of get into this lineup and you're going around in starboard and you're gonna do a drive to port, and then you're gonna tack again onto starboard and kind of find your hole and work that hole. Um, that's kind of the general idea. And then when you get down to that like minute and a half, you're fighting your hole, and all you're doing is concentrating on the weather boat and the lured boat, and that's it. It doesn't matter if there's a hundred boats, you still gotta beat, make sure you know, you gotta beat the guy to lured on the acceleration, and you gotta beat the guy to weather, you know, on the acceleration as well. So if you're late on that, then your start is over, and it's just the weather boat and the lured boat. That's that's all you can consider.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Yeah, so so as soon as you the gun goes and you feel fast, and then you have a chance to look around, then you decide, hey, we can tack and cross, or you know, we're covered, or we need to extend, or you know, your your next step happens 50 to 100 feet off the line, which is here's where we are, this is how we need to, you know. Either we're executing our game plan, and that's the the what you talked about as well, which was okay, we do have a good start. Well, that's that's almost easier, right? Because you're like, well, our game plan was to start here and go straight, wait for the shift, and we tacked. That's really simple and straightforward. It's when it doesn't go your way that you have to backtrack a little bit and say, okay, well, what's actually happening and how do we recover?

SPEAKER_01 31:43

It's interesting that you took uh an 80-boat fleet and distilled it down to two other two boats, basically. You it's of course it's yourself, but it's the guy to lure and it's the guy to weather at the start. I mean, that's interesting because you first and foremost, you have to win that. If you don't win that individual battle right away between those two boats, you're in big trouble. Right. So that's that's interesting. And do you are you are you do you think about like do you do you look at see who's to weather of you and like you know who that is, or you look to lure it and like do you are you able to like think that way, or do you just go, no, that's just a boat, and that other one is just a boat? You're not able to you do does that enter your mind like you know who's let's say Nelson's above you, or let's say Nelson's below you, for example. Now you know Bruce and you know maybe how he starts and stuff. Does that come into it, or you you don't you don't get into that sort of thing? It's just boat versus boat.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

I think in an ideal world, you'd love to uh start by somebody that isn't as a stellar at starting, right? If you had the option. Um you know, would it used to be start by the marshmallows, what Dave Perry used to say, but uh, you know, that marshmallow knows how to start. So, you know, everybody's the same. And all you're doing is trying to come in on port tack and get as close to the weather boat as possible and then tack in there, hold them up and build your hole to lure it, have hope that no one steals your hole, you know, work your hole and then accelerate at the right time. So it's a pretty interesting little dance of you know, turning the boat and protecting and things like that. But uh in 80 boats, you don't you don't have a choice. And and sometimes you're already committed at a minute and a half, two minutes, because you're in that that kind of that little dance of rotating routing area. Right, right. Oh, here's where we are.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

So um, and it either works for you or it doesn't, and it's right, because in that time, that minute, minute and a half, two minutes, a lot can change wind-wise. Like you're fighting, you're you're in fighting hand-to-hand combat, but you you lose sight of the overall thing that's happening, that is wind shifts, etc., right?

SPEAKER_00 33:48

Well, exactly. And that's San Diego is is just so typical, right? Because you're like, oh man, you know, the wind's been left all day. This is great. And you go and you start down there, and all of a sudden there's a 20-degree writing. You're like, of course. And that's where experience in in San Diego hurts you because if if you you know didn't know San Diego as well, you you you wouldn't worry about those things, you know, and you just uh you wouldn't take the oh typical San Diego, you go right. You know, you wouldn't take that into consideration and you just play the shifts. And you know, it makes it almost easier not knowing San Diego as well. And then having some predetermined ideas of San Diego kind of makes it harder. So it's it's a challenge as to how you weigh all that out.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

For for sure it is. It's fascinating. And it's I'm glad we got a chance to kind of get a little bit inside the game uh with some of your insights. It it's just it's fascinating. And uh thank you, uh Al for coming with us. I know you guys got to go to your meeting and get ready to get on the water. Hey, let's do this. Maybe let's check in you know towards the end of the week and just kind of here's where we were, here's what I said on on Wednesday. Forget all that. Here's what I'm gonna tell you on Friday.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Like well, I don't know. Tell me uh look at the results before you call me.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

You know I will. If I see a lot of 42s and 39s, I'll probably skip the phone call. But uh Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

You're like, I'm losing this number.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

But if I see some good stuff, pal, pal, just count on a phone call, all right?

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Yeah, sounds good.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

All right, I'll listen. Good luck. Thanks, buddy. Appreciate you. Thanks. You bet. Bye-bye. You know, he's just one of my all-time favorite guys. He just is. And um he uh when I worked at that other place, uh, you know, the corporate-owned, corporate run place that I started, that's now just a shit show. Um you know, I I've had Al on probably, you know, I don't know, five or six times, something like that. Don't start the crickets, jeez, not cricket's time yet. It's still interesting, isn't it? No, no longer interesting. Okay, sorry. Um I like him because you know, Al, uh Al and I uh I consider him to be a very good friend. And uh I know he he he the same about me. We talk about a lot of things, not necessarily sailing. And he's bright, and you know, he's just an interesting guy, and he is just such a great sailor. So it is fun to like get inside them, even though they're not doing particularly well. I mean, the program isn't great. I mean, uh Matt Reynolds, you know, really good San Diego, the Reynolds brothers down here in San Diego, really good sailors, but this is his first time he's ever steered an etchels like in the world. Like, come on. So that's not dissing Matt. Anyone who would be a first time steering a boat in a big world is gonna be just disadvantaged to a certain degree. But you know, they didn't get that ninth place by luck, and uh, I suspect that these are you know, between Matt and Alex Comet, you know, they're gonna they'll put together some more good finishes. At least they better, because I need another guest. Or I'll get them on. If they have a bunch of really shitty finishes, I'll get them on and I'll I want to hear it'll be the cranky report. You know, it'll be the goddamn. Um I remember when I was before I let you go, I remember I was doing sailing the Lipton Cup for San Diego Yacht Club back when they used to like me. And um I was lucky enough to have uh local legend Chuck Sinks as my tactician. We were sailing Shock 35s, and um Chuck, if anybody, if you know Chuck, you know he's just aces all the way around, and he's just such a great sailor. And and and Chuck, you know, sails with some emotion, uh, which you know I like. I like that. And so we uh you know, we got a good start. We banged the first shift. I think we crossed everybody, and and I'll just never forget. He's like, God damn, I love this sport, you know, and it's just you know, when you're crossing boats, you're on port and you're crossing the three that are coming at you on Starbucks, and you you nail them all, you cross them all, and you're leading. It's like yes. And then I think we went off to the corner a little bit, we came back, and the boats on the left now on the left did the same thing to us, and he's like, I hate this sport. And it's like nothing sums up this sport better than that right there, you know. And uh I I I think I think I like I like the way uh Alex looks at this because he's analytical and he's an emotional sailor too, but he's he's inside his head because that's where all the good stuff is happening. And uh, when you're a sailor of that level, all the great sailors, they're all that way. Like they've got things in their mind that they see, that they know, that their experience tells them uh that tends to spit out the right sort of decisions, you know, whether it's starting line or what side of the race course, or what do we do with this guy, or you know, it should we duck here, should we tack there? You know, those guys always sort of come up, invariably come up with the right answer. Or if it's not the right answer, it's better than yours. So um it's it to me, it's fascinating, and I I do really get hyped up when I talk to guys like Alex about this. So, yeah. So listen, that is it um for me. That is it for us for rules69.com, which by the way, is my new website. It's pretty happening. Rule69.com, go check it out. I'm Scott Tempesta for Rule Sixty Nine.