Yeah, there we are Yes, sir! Scott Tempesta's the name Rule69.com is the game. Welcome back to our fourth podcast which is really pathetic. You know, every day I delay doing a podcast makes me realize kind of like what a douche I really am. Like I should be doing podcasts virtually every day. Number one, I'm good at them. Number two, there's always something interesting to talk about and, uh, in this sport. I mean, it never ends, but, you know, I get a little better so-so and, uh, and borracho, uh, and loco, and, uh, so I get a little lazy. But this is a great, this is a great thing for me because we're gonna talk about a topic, but more important than the topic, even though she will disagree, is our guest today, and her name is Tina Roberts. And what's great about her as far as I can tell other than everything is that she is the owner of Rag Time. And Rag Time just won class in the Pac Cup, um, to the surprise of many, but including Tina by the way. But if you followed the race at all, which I did like religiously 'cause I had a couple bros on Rag Time, um, I, I absolutely followed every day. And the thing is they were in pretty good position most all of the race. A lot of elements, a lot of different boats, l- disparate boats. I mean, you go from Zeus, you know, the, uh, the weird odd foiler boat that just absolutely kicked ass just in terms of, you know, elapsed time and just how fast the thing was for a 52-footer all the way to Rag Time. You know, the 1962 classic that has been around forever seemingly and has raced every race seemingly and has had a number of owners who have put the boat through different, you know, versions, modifications, et cetera. But under Tina's stewardship she's done I think what all of us would have done to Rag Time. Like you wanna keep the essence of the boat, oh my God, right, you couldn't possibly touch anything about the hull. It's just sexy and beautiful and never not interesting from almost every angle, at least from the outside. Um, and then you would look at the rig and you'd look at the sail plan and you'd look at the electronics. You'd look about all the things, you know, like a resto mod would, would, would be. You know, you're, you got that 57 Chevy and sure you like it, but ah, I gotta put the big giant V8 in it and, you know, I gotta do this and I gotta do that and I gotta do that. It's still a 57 Chevy. It's just like, oh yeah, those are some of the things you might do to it. And Tina has done that and just successfully won the frigging, uh, Pac Cup which is just so cool. So let's give a Rule 69 welcome to Tina Roberts. Hey, Tina. Hey. Thanks, Scott. That was awesome. Sure. Pretty good, right? That was a great introduction. Oh. I'm, you know, I'm honored. That might have been my best introduction ever. Um- well, thanks for taking time out of your schedule, and like first of all, God- Damn. Congratulations. I mean, seriously Thank you. You guys won Thank you. Thank you you won, you won, you won. And, um, and, you know, like I told you before we, we got on this podcast, it wasn't a surprise to me because of how well you guys were hanging in there. You know, you were Like, I look at, you know, there's two, obviously two things, right? There's, let's see, elapsed time obviously, and there's corrected time. And sure, some of the boats that should be faster were faster on the water, but, you know, the corrected time story is what really is the story. I mean, there's, you know, y- there's no real barn door to get anymore when they do the staggered starts. It's, it's meaningless, frankly. I mean, uh, it's great for Naos, the, the double-handed, you know, Beneteau 36 TP. It's awesome that they were first to finish, especially from a double-handed perspective. But, you know, the multi-day headstart and all that kinda stuff. So when you turn to Division 1, which is where you guys were, and it was a, it was a very good, a very interesting, if not somewhat small, and frankly from the outside, the, the entire fleet was disappointingly small f- thinking of all the boats that could have and normally would have gone and didn't. And, you know, we can get into that later. But, you know, when you see boats, you know, like Zeus jumped out and Vitasse jumped out and, you know, um, I guess to a degree Pywacket started to. They, they looked, to me they never looked like they were gonna win the race, I mean, I just, just looking at them. And then Merlin, you know, what, what that boat's sort of capable of, but also another boat that didn't really look like they were gonna win. And you guys did, and the first question I wanna ask you is how did it, what was the perspective from the boat, you know, going from the very beginning from where you guys were, uh, to where you guys were m- sort of in the middle of the race, and then, and then sort of the end. Like, w- how were you viewing your race from on board the boat? Uh, that's a really great question, Scott. So one of the perspectives from our boat... First of all, a, a big, huge hand to, uh, Ernie Rochow, who is our navigator. He's an extremely talented navigator. He's very focused. Um, he has navigated some of the best winds on the West Coast with Peligroso, Magnitude 80. You know, he's got a long list of boats that he has been extremely successful on, and, you know, we can cover that later too, is how Ernie and I, uh, became, you know, just basically he's my boat husband. Um, And then, uh, and how the two of us came together is actually pretty entertaining. But from a race perspective, you know, we had a plan. We had been working the route and the weather, and the route and the weather. You know, we're all staying in the same house before the race. We're going over this two or three times a day, and we had a plan, and Ernie's plan was very specific. We'd broken the race down, kind of like what you referred to as the beginning, the middle, and the end, and we sailed our sail, right? I ride motorcycles, and one guy told me, who was about 80 years old, one day, he said, as I was out riding motorcycles with him, he said, "You ride your ride." And that's what we did on Rag Time. We rode our boat. We sailed our boat. And shockingly, um, in some ways, we-- Ernie was paying attention to the results. We as a crew were not living the results. We were living our results. You know? Yeah. So how are we doing on each watch? So the beginning of the race was obviously it's the wet, cold, nasty, you know, you're freezing all the time and, and Rag Time is a pretty wet boat. It wasn't as wet, shockingly then, as it was when we got closer to Hawaii. But we just stayed true to what our plan was. And while we're watching what other boats are doing, and obviously as you mentioned, the t- Zeus is pulling ahead, the Taz, you know, we, we've got- Pimo right next to us for a couple days. Yeah. You know, and these are boats that we are like, "Wow, we're really actually holding out to these guys." Um, we were rated very closely with Pimo, um, unfortunately with their mast, um, track incident. Mm-hmm. So when we got to the middle of the race, you know, we're l- it, it's kind of a place where it's really easy to become complacent. You're in a routine. For sure. You're, you're sleeping, you know, God forbid you're sleeping- you're getting your three hours. We're not doing a lot of sail changes. You know, we're kind of on a- Yeah on a, on a constant tack. We, we were on one tack for, I think, seven watches in a row. And you know, you get- So- You get a little complacent sometimes Don't we? Wh- a- and by the way, it's worth mentioning that Pimu is a ClubSwan 50. And what's interesting about that boat is, uh, uh, Damian Craig is a, is a dear friend of mine who navigated the boat and really sort of oversaw most of the stuff. Just a fabulous, fabulous sailor. If you ever get a chance to have him, Damian Craig, sail with you, you should. Um, he, he is just a winner. Uh, he's just the greatest guy in the world. But, but so they took that Swan, that ClubSwan 50, and did something nobody's ever done with one. Those things were s- essentially designed to sail around in flat water, one design. Um, and so Juan K. didn't really take into consideration, you know, what some of the challenges would be for offshore racing, and they, I mean, they had to redo so much on the boat. The one thing that I think was hilarious is when you think of Swan, whether it's ClubSwan or regular Swan, you just think of like, you know, integrity, like a, a solid structure- Mm-hmm like, you know, amazingly built. Apparently the boat leaked like a sieve and, you know- They Hope Swan's not listening. Uh, they don't advertise with me anyway and they probably won't going forward. But they, they spent a lot of time, you know, just waterproofing the boat just to stop that. Um, but the, apparently the boat liked to round up, like in any breeze at all, thing would just spin out. So they had new rudders designed, but the builders couldn't make them in time. And so they thought about dropping out, but they said, "Well, listen, we've come this far. Let's do it." Maybe they should've, maybe they should've dropped out before they actually had to drop out, but that's in retrospect. But yeah, you were sailing along with these boats, you know, and they're, they're good boats. I mean, Pimu was going well. I saw where they were, and I know they have great sailors on board. Um, and so yeah, it must have been pretty comforting to go, "Oh, b- Okay. Okay, right? I mean, it's, that's, that's probably super reassuring and, like, sort of charges you guys up even more, correct? Well, yeah, there's a whole bunch of confidence in looking at your competitors on the race course. You know, Merlin's ahead of us, Pywacket's ahead of us. Obviously Zeus and Vitesse are ahead of us, but we're going You know, we're kinda tracking with them. Yes, yes. We're tracking. That's the biggest thing. Like, every day, we were thinking, "How many, how many miles can they be ahead of us and still be tracking with them?" So we were keen on, you know, if we needed 14 miles on Pywacket, were we making the same progress that they were making so that it was never more than 14 miles that day? Or, you know, it was one day nine and the next was 16. So that's the kind of discussions that we're having on the boat, and we're s- we're VMG sailing, right? This is VMG sailing all day long. Yeah. So we are super focused on the mi- middle, but of course, we're getting good sleep. I do all the cooking on the boat, and I have to say I'm a really great cook. And so we don't take freeze-dried. I believe motivation is in the stomach and the hearts of sailors. You're so right. So, you know, we have good food. So, you know, we're having double smash burgers. You know, we're doing good. And so you and me can come- Did you guys have booze? Did you have booze, Tina? No. No. We are an absolute dry boat. Really? Now, why is that? Let me ask you that. Safety first Safety third, really, Tina. Come on, let's get your priorities- I know in order, uh, which is of course what everybody's- When you have a boat like Rag Time- Yeah it is a, there is a load on that boat, and we do not have room for error. Understood. People get hurt. Understood. People get hurt. I was just thinking like an evening cocktail or glass of wine, but no- Oh, no you're like, no, no. Yeah. Okay. Nope. It's, it's, no, you don't get to drink on our delivery, you don't get to drink when we're sailing. When the main is down and we're motoring to the dock, we might bring out some beers. Oh, got you. But I'm, I'm pretty I, it's always been a dry boat. So Chris Welsh was my, um, my husband and my partner. When he passed away in '21, that's how I am in Rag Time, and he was always a dry boat, so I just kept that tradition. Okay. I mean, I, I understand that. Yeah. But however, apparently you're not quite the owner I thought you were, but that's okay. We can, we can look beyond that. And, and I- and, and I do wonder- Well, wait till we get to the dock. That's a whole new, you know, now all of a sudden shirts are coming off, right? Es- especially when y- that crew you're sailing with. Good Lord. Right. Um- Right but yeah, that, that's really interesting. So as you were going along, and obviously you're watching, everybody's watching everybody's progress, and you're feeling pretty comfortable about where you are, did you guys look at Zeus and go, "Holy shit"? Like, there was a point where they were gone daddy gone, and they were- Yep they were winning the thing. And, like, if this stays, if the breeze had stayed up, I think, let's say the breeze had been, you know, pretty consistently good, I don't think any- I think they would've won. Um, 'cause the thing really seemed to go in those conditions. I mean, I, you know, I know Gordon Kay. I've talked to him a lot, the guy who came up with the whole DSS stuff, and, uh, unfortunately we've fallen out of contact. But, but, um, I know the boat was amazing. But, you know, you guys, uh, tell me what y- where the, where the, what do you think the predominant wind strength was in, in range a- w- that you guys were sailing in for that let's go s- let's go last half of the race, last maybe third of the race. Was that a wind range that was suited Rag Time? Absolutely. Yeah. So there's a couple of things that make that really interesting, and one of them is, you know, we, we started to have a complete change in the wave action. You know, the sea state starts to change as we get closer to the islands. Sure. And now we've got a lot more form in those waves, right? They're, they're a little bit higher. They're a little bit thicker, you know, and Ragam's a sled. Yeah. Right? That's what everybody's like, "Oh, well, you know, we don't underst- Well, it's a sled. It's made to- Exactly sail like a surfboard. That's right. And so it is, it's blowing 26, you know, and we're, you know, we're going anywhere between, you know, I would say 16 to 19, and the boat is The boat has no problem with this. The rest of us are going, "Hmm. This is pretty, you know, this is pretty riled up. We're 'Cause we haven't sailed those conditions because the boat hasn't been in that condition, 'cause we haven't gotten that far into Hawaii before- Right. with this team. Right. Right? So Keith Kilpatrick, our captain, who's amazing, and has sailed all over the world, you know, he's like, "Huh, wow, this boat's pretty strong. She's pretty stout." And we're s- I'll never forget, I'm standing in the companionway in that last third of the race, and I look up and Will Suto, who is, um, a part of our crew in the pit- Yep um, he's driving, and Keith is trimming, and we've got young Austin Book out of Monterey, great- young Bowman who's here to learn and just consume information is grinding. And I look up and Will's eyes are the size of dollar bills, and I'm like, and he's like, "That's the biggest wave I've ever surfed on." And they were coming down this thing like a freight train, down the face of this wave, and Keith goes, "That was huge." And the boat kinda looked at them and went, "Hey, dummies- I do this all the time. It wasn't that big of a deal." Right. But, you know, for you guys, like you said, it's a little bit of unknown territory- Right uh, to a degree. But then, then having sort of coming to the realization, "Oh, wait a minute. No, no, wait. I'm not s- this- of course, this is what it does. Let's go, let's go, let's go." The boat knew what it was doing. How- The boat was very clear about these are the conditions I sail in, and- So- I sail well. So was it te- I mean, I'm sure you guys did this, 'cause this boat is made for that. So I know a lot of boats, like, you know, your temptation is to drop into a wave, and sometimes it's less rewarding and you've, you know, you veered off your course a little bit. But on this boat, I suspect you're just dropping in, like, "Let's go," right down the, you know- You're just dropping in. Yep. Well, and here's the other thing, is the boat wants to, the boat wants to ride that wave in a very specific way. And I know from my time being on the helm, you drop into those waves and you force her. You have to force her. She wants to go, "Woo-hoo," right? And you gotta kinda go, you kinda gotta force her to come back to straight. Yep. Let's straighten it out. Yep. You gotta straighten her out. Yep. And then she's like, and then she's just gonna charge. Yeah. And that's where she, that's where the speed is. So the speed is not letting the boat do what it wants to do, it's managing rudder and getting that rudder in the right place with that pressure- Sure on the rudder. Sure. And it, she just, then she just barks- Hey- up to 20. Is it more accurate to say you let it do a little bit of what it wants to do, but you don't let it do all that it wants to do? Right. Yeah. You let her set up. Yep. You let her get going, and then you manage where you want her to finish. Yeah. Right. That m- that makes perfect sense. Uh, I can- And it sounds so weird because we're talking about a boat. Well, no, we're not. We're talking about a, a living icon. I mean, let's face it. But she's a pretty special boat. Yeah. Right. Well, it's not just a boat. Um, so yeah, that is awesome. And then let me ask you a little bit about your history. So before you met Chris, um, who by the way did wonderful things with the boat, you know, under his stewardship. He did. Did you, did you have much of a background in sailing? No, I grew up in power boating. I grew up in Idaho in the Pacific Northwest. All, most power boats, a lot of power boats, right? Okay, okay. Went fishing as a kid. I mean, in Idaho you fish and hunt. Yeah. That's what you do- Okay as a kid. Um, but the water has always been a huge passion for me. And, um, I, you know, I had a midlife crisis in my, when I was about 36 and rode a motorcycle to Panama- by myself. And on the way down I learned to surf because I love the ocean. And then, you know, coming back to California is where I ended up, and I just fell in love with the ocean. And I've always, I mean, I always have since I was a kid, we used to go there on vacation. We used to go to Cannon Beach, Oregon. You know, and so, but sailing's not my background. What I'm really, really good at, I think, and that's hopefully what everyone sees in Ragtime, is- is really bringing a story back to life and the history. And I, I, I cannot have done that without Chris's passion for the boat. Sure. When I met him on a blind date- Wow at, at Rolex Big Boat Series in St. Francis in 2009, he was coming back from Transpac, and he had campaigned the boat that year to win Sydney Hobart. They had done LA Tahiti in, in '08, then Sydney Hobart '08, '09, and won. And they'd won LA Tahiti. Did the Transpac. They did, they were okay in the Transpac. I think by then it was getting to be pretty tiring. Yeah. Um, anyway, I meet him on a blind date, and he said, "You know, I just wanna let you know from the very beginning that you'll never be my number one girl." And I'm like, "Oh, are, you know, are there... That's kinda harsh. Are there others?" And, and he looked out down to the docks at St. Francis, and he goes, "That's my number one girl." Oh, right, right. And it was Rag Time. And I was like, "Oh, so it's the boat first and me second?" Yes. I'm joking, saying that. And he looks at me with a straight face and says, "Yes, and it'll always be that way." And I was like, "Okay, noted." I didn't have that passion for the boat when I was with him when we were together for 15 years because I was like, "Oh, well, n- reas- reason for me to get involved with the boat. That's his number one girl. I got other things to do." That's interesting. So I- That's interesting didn't spend a lot of time on the boat. Huh. I would've thought- I didn't- I would've... Now, did he try to, did he try to integrate you with the boat? Did he try to get you to come sail with the boat and be a, you know, part of the team? Well, we, yeah, I mean, we sailed together, but the fact of the matter is after that campaign, um, of those couple of years, the boat stayed with us in Richmond. We had a house right there on the water in Brickyard Cove. And so it was great 'cause he, you know, he, we could dock Rag Time in front of the house, and we had Rag Time there for about four years. But we didn't sail her very much. It was, we had to go out on the tides because there's, um- Yeah some low spots there- Yeah 'cause we draw 11. And so we didn't, you know, we kinda cared for her, but we didn't really sail her that much. He did a couple Three Bridge Fiascos and, you know, some other different... I think we did the Great Pumpkin race with Richmond Yacht Club, just some light stuff. And then he pulled her out of the water and put her on the hard, and he said, "You know, I, I'm collecting these things to upgrade her, refit her with some new stuff." And, you know, when you are, when you're in a relationship with someone, a lot of life is pillow talk, is what I call it, you know? Sure. It's what happens, what you talk about when you go to bed at night and when you get up in the morning. Of course. And so you hear these bits and pieces and, and he kind of drug me a couple places around the world to look at bits and pieces of what his plan for Ragtime was. Hmm. And so I knew we had all these bits and pieces, and I knew it because of his passion about talking about it, but he was off submarine-ing by then. You know, we had a submarine company, and we had submarines all over the world, and we were doing crazy stuff, and Ragtime was kind of, like, in the background. So, um, we got to this point, and after he passed away, here we have this boat, and she, she had been taken apart. There was no mast. You know, we'd gone in, he'd gone into some of the patches that needed to be repaired on the, on the bottom. Um, the top sides were, uh, we'd taken all the paint off. Hmm. He'd taken it all the way down to white, and you know, she, the whole inside, they were starting to grind down all of the, all of the paint on the inside so that we could get down to some of the real wood, and she was just kind of sitting up there in all her lonesome- I gotta say- you know, shrink-wrapped I saw pictures of it in white. Yes. It does- it doesn't look good in white. No. Well, there's a picture that floated around for a while when she, when we, when we, we brought her down the coast to go into Dennis Choate's yard, and someone took a picture of her and put it out online and said, "Is that Ragtime? Why did they change the color?" It might have been me, by the way. Um- I can't even tell you how tempting it was to wanna go on there and go, "You guys are idiots." We'll never do that. But you know, I, I, I, I try to take a strong reaction of no re- no action is re- good reaction. Sure. The of- most often it is. Um, yeah. And so, and so at, at Choate's, um And so what, uh, let me back up a bit. So you guys, what is your, what is your business professional background? So believe it or not, uh, my professional background is in butchery and meat processing and production. Um, I, out of college, got a great deg- couple degrees out of college, and it was hard to get jobs in the, in the late '90s because everybody was in the dot-com world. Sure. It wasn't hard to get jobs, it just was, there was so much going on. This was right before 2000. Um, and I mean, I'd been out of college for quite some time, but it was just a weird place to be. So I was like, "I'm gonna be like all the cool kids and go into software." Went into software and ended up doing an instal- an installation inside of a meat processing company inside s- at Spokane, Washington. Wow. Or in Spokane. Wow. And while I was doing this installation working for a software company, the German owner of the meat processing company said, "Hey, I need someone to help me on the processing floor do a bunch of calculations for our software." And no one would go down there 'cause they were like, "Ew, there's blood." "Oh, they're butchering things." And I was like, "Hey, I'll go." You know, I, I hunted with my dad as a kid. You know, we carved out elk a lot. I was like, "Yeah, I'll go." Mm-hmm. Ended up working for him. He offered me a great position, and I ended up apprenticing as a butcher with beef, pork, and lamb. And- Wow I worked for him for a couple of years. Said, "This is no job for a female at 32 degrees, six days a week," you know, loving the bl- smell of blood in the morning. "I'm gonna go get a real job." And so I left, and a couple years went by and he called me, uh, this guy Maury, the German guy. His kids didn't want the business, and he said, "Hey, I'm gonna sell my business." I said, "Maury, that's the best thing that could happen." By then he was 80. Mm. And I said, uh, "Great. That's so awesome." And he goes, "Well, I'm selling it to you." And I was like, "Wait a minute. I don't have any money, and I'm not buying your company." And he said, "Yes, you are, and I'm gonna find you a financial partner. You're the only one who can run this business." And I ended up buying his company with a partner and became a meat processing company owner. Um, owned another- sold that company to Food Services of America, turned around, bought another one in s- in, uh, over in Seattle, sold that to US Foods Stockyards years later, and that's what took me on my, uh- Wow midlife crisis at 36- So- because I'd worked too hard. So your child- your childhood dream of owning meat processing plants, uh, came- Yes came to fruition. It did. It did. It did. Did you- But it was always kind of people are like, "What business are you in?" I was like, "Oh, meat production." Meat processing. Yeah. And then, you know, by trade a butcher. God, that's hilarious. Did you ever give consideration to renaming the boat Beef Time or no, that w- Well, I can tell you one thing, we don't eat chicken on the boat. You d- you don't eat chicken? God. No, we don't eat chicken on the boat. It is a protein enhanced- Got it beef ride. Got it. We eat beef, pork, or lamb. Love it. That's, that's really awesome. So both you and Chris, you know, had the financial wherewithal to sort of do what you guys wanted to do, and, and specific to Rag Time, you know, when, when, you know, Chris was where he was in the process and then, you know, sadly passed away. Um, Chris and I used to email each other, and, um, I don't think we saw eye to eye politically. I'm pretty sure we did not. But, um, Ch- I liked Chris because he was feisty and, um, and obviously a bright guy, and, you know- He's right up your alley. Y- I know. I just think he leaned right, and I'm pr- and I know I, I've fallen over left, and so I think, if I have that right. But, um, so you guys had that, you know, y- you have what everybody wishes they had, or most people. You know, like, "Okay, I love sailing, but boy, if I had the money, I would do blank." And you guys had the money, and you did blank with Rag Time, right? Well, the, th- that's kind of the greatest i- Like joke though, the greatest joke is Chris was extremely property rich and, rich and cash poor. Copy. Um- Copy and, you know, he owned mobile home parks. When he passed away, there were eight mobile home parks in various, you know, states around. Um, none of them were in t- they weren't five-star mobile home parks. You know, they're two and three-star. And they're mom-and-pop, you know, dirt road kinda mobile home parks. And the, the kind of coolest thing about that was that they were becoming the darling of the private equity world. Oh my God. Because all of a sudden, private equity was realizing that the financials around these mobile home parks was pretty strong. During COVID, we were 100% rent collected because the people who live in a mobile home park typically are on a fixed income, and their income didn't change with COVID. Right. They still collected Social Security. They still collected... They still had jobs. You know, they, they were, they were still paying their rent because that w- there was no alternative for them. Wow. That's- So it was, it was, uh, Chris passes away a year after COVID, and he's about ready to hit the trajectory of doing something with Ragtime. And, you know, the joke was I spent all his money doing what he really wanted to do- in a way. You know, it's, yeah, it's, it's kind of a, it's kind of a laughter. I d- he would never have spent the money I spent on Ragtime. Well, then, then I'm glad you took over But he wouldn't have. He wouldn't have. He would've maybe gotten to 80% of the outcome, but I made choices and decisions about Ragtime because it was the right thing to do regardless of the money. You know, it- I don't have any kids. We didn't have any kids, so it's a college education. Sure it is. And, and let's walk through a little bit of the, uh, of the experience. So you took it to Choate's, which by the way was in my I mean, listen, I think you took it to the exact right place. Um, Dennis is a craftsman like people don't quite understand. Uh, obviously his history with sailing is as deep as almost anybody's, and I li- I've always liked Dennis. It Dennis is a, is a different cat though. I mean- Yes I remember we were having a, uh, when I was in Sailmaking, we were having a couple of these Peterson 30, uh, we called them Maxi-Morsy boats. They were They rated really high, and they were really, really fast, and Choate was building a few. And we, we went in there with a, a customer at the time, and, uh, he was such a dick. Like, he was such a dick. Like, I mean, he was just grumpy. That's, that's a true statement. He was grumpy and grouchy and, you know, and we were coming, "Hey, man, what's going on?" "Ah, what do you mean what's going on? The boat's right over there. Go look at it." You know, and the thing was all- He snarls at you as you walk by yeah. And I'm thinking, "Wow, my guy's giving you good money, and th- and this? This?" And I didn't say much of anything. I was like, "Okay." I was a little d- frankly a little intimidated. I mean, I didn't wanna What am I gonna do, get in his grill? Um, it's not I don't even- Oh, he'd just throw you out. I- It's real simple absolutely, and never let you back in. Um, so I had no real skin in the game, and I'm not, it's not my battle. I'm just watching it. But, uh, but the other side of the coin is, you know, you've g- you've gotten to know Dennis, and you know that side of him, uh, um, that's, that's like, uh, it's a- it's attracting. He's a really interesting guy. And, you know, h- he knows how to get things done the right way. So it looks to me, again, from the outside, I'll save my final judgment for when I'm aboard if you don't kick me out between now and then on the Long Point, but did a fabulous job. Fabulous he did. You know, it, the, the best part about Dennis is I think Dennis, what Dennis and I really have, and we developed it, uh, was some really big trust. Yeah. And I think when Dennis feels trusted by the owner of the boat that he's working on is where he really shines. So Chris had put a new keel on Ragtime, the new rudder on Ragtime, and had done, uh, a new rig on Ragtime in 08, '07 after Transpac up until '08 when he left for LA to Tahiti in Dennis's yard. Okay. And so Dennis knew the boat, um, and knew it really well, knew everything about it, and Alan Andrews- Mm-hmm um, had done all the design, uh, all the naval architecture on it. And so Alan and Dennis, you know, the great story, and if I may digress for just a minute- You may the great story about Alan is I called Alan and I said, "Hey, you know, it's been a year since Chris passed away, and I think I'm ready to do something about this boat. It has this big history. I found all these boxes of stuff and, you know, I think it should be, you know, classified as a classic and let's do something. Who can I hire to pay to do this?" And Alan said, "Tina, I'm not gonna be part of your project. I don't want anything to do with that." And I was like, "Well, wait a minute, you can... I, I just offered you a blank check and you're saying no? Like, who does that, right?" Yeah. And he was like, "I won't do that project unless you run the project. You have to make the decisions about your boat, and you have to be the owner of your boat- Hmm. Interesting or I won't participate." And I was like, "Well, screw you. That sucks. I'm out. Forget it. I'll go find somebody else. You know, I'm gonna take my toys and go home." And I left that conversation and I was like, "How dare he say that? That's not right. I can do whatever I want." And then I thought about it and I was like, "You know, he's, he's telling me something very wisely." And I need to listen to that He was And so I did, and, and I got back on board with him and I said, "Okay, I'll crawl around the boat." And he goes, "I want you in every corner of that boat. I want you to go look at the chain plates in the, on the backstays. I want you to make those decisions. I'll help you, but you need to be there." Interesting. I lo- I, by the way, I love that. I've never heard that story before, but I absolutely love it. Alan Andrews is a great guy. He's, beyond just his naval architecture abilities, he's just, he has a good sense for things, and for him to put, to put that on you, by the way, to lose the potential business there by saying that, I'm glad that that message got through because now that you a- So then when you approached it that way, tell me that wasn't one of the best things that could've happened to you from an owner's perspective. I will tell you today there is no one who knows that boat better than I do. Ernie and Keith come to me and ask me- how was this built? How did you build this piece of the boat, or what's behind this that we need to know about? You know, because I know the boat. I, I, I ask a lot of questions. I, I dove in. I looked at it this... So I went to Dennis when we took it down to Dennis's yard. I said, "Well, how much do you think, you know, can you give me an estimate?" Now, this is where the Dennis part comes in. Yep. Dennis laughs in your face when you say that. Yep, he does. He's like, "You know what? I'm not your guy if you want an estimate because we're gonna do what's right for the boat, and when we do what's right for the boat, you get a bill." Exactly. That's classic Choate. By the way, who recommended Choate? Was, you- Well- The boat was already there? The, no. So we had the boat on the hard in Richmond. Okay. The only way to get the boat to Choate would be to take it on its own bottom, hence the picture of the boat- Yeah in white. Yep. But where else is there to take it? You know, there are not very many yards. I mean- And there are very few yards who know this boat, if at all. The- And if you take it to someone else, what are they gonna do? They're gonna look at you and go, "Okay, now what do you want us to do? It's wood. It's plywood." Right. "Can you scrape it and start over?" Right. I guess Westerly might have, uh, were they still around back then? I guess they would've been maybe the other choice. No. No, they weren't, huh? Yeah. Well, they would've been another choice, but, but they, no one at their yard knew the boat. No, no. And so- You know? And so when you ch- so here's my question. This is, I think this is a, kind of a key question. Um, who did you, like, who was your first advisor, outside of Allen, like, the guy that's gonna, you know, project manage or give you suggestions on things? Like, I know it wasn't Keith. Uh, Keith came in later. No. No. So that becomes the funny part of the relationship story, is that Dennis is bitching at Allen, Allen's bitching at Dennis. You know, they're like two, two grandmas fighting. And I'm, like, holding court with the two of them, you know. I'll go talk to this corner one day, and I'll go talk to that corner the other day. And they kept telling me, you know, "You gotta get somebody in here. I can't deal with Allen." "Allen, you gotta get somebody in here. I can't deal with Dennis." So finally I said, "Okay, what do you guys want?" "Independently, what do you want?" They said, "You gotta call Jimmy Slaughter." Ah, okay. "We won't do this unless Jimmy's involved. You gotta call Jimmy Slaughter. You gotta call Jimmy Slaughter." I was like, "I don't know Jimmy Slaughter from Jack-" Right "E Quick." Right? So I call up Jimmy Slaughter- Let me interject great I'd sailed, Jimmy and I probably sailed together for, I don't know, a solid 10 years back, way back in the day. Um, nobody knew who Jimmy- Rosebud days? Uh, no. Way before that. Oh. We were sailing. Whoa. Oh my God. That's a while. Oh, now you're dating yourself, Brad. Yeah, I know. Shoot, I shouldn't have done that. Oh wait, too late. Um, uh, yeah, way before then. And Jimmy's nickname, we nicknamed him Grumpy, and, uh, because Jimmy was as serious as a heart attack, um, when it came to sailing. I mean, he, listen, Jimmy liked to party and liked to have fun, but on board the boat, getting a boat ready, whatever it is, you know, Jimmy was uber focused. And the thing about Jimmy's skillset, you know, is he just started off as a bow man, and then as Jimmy's progressed in his sailing career and gone on various boats, you know, his skillset is immense. And, um, his ability to manage a boat like that, do the work, Jimmy's a worker, and he'll get that kinda stuff done. And so, it, we, we've semi lost contact over the years. Um, and but, but I've sort of seen, you know, I see him every now and then, and I see what he's done, and what a great choice. So let me ask you a question. So when you first met Jimmy, what was your initial impression? Well, he, he scoffed at me Right? Here's your grumpiness, right? Right. He... I, I had a young man who I was going to send down to Choate's yard, um, to check on the boat and see how the progress is going, and, and Jimmy just scoffed at me like, "If I... It's not me, nobody else can do this because nobody else..." You know, you know Jimmy. "Nobody else knows what they're doing." Exactly. "They're all dumb, and they're all stupid, and..." And, and I'm not saying that that's Jimmy's personality, but he's right. That's the worst part, is he's right. He's right. There aren't a lot of people who have his skill set. He had finished, um, what, uh, the upgrade on Merlin in 2019. So he'd come off of that project, a similarly- Yeah budgeted proj- project in the same yard. Mm. Right? So he knew the players. He knew how they worked in the yard at Choate. You know, so he... But when I called him, I, I called him before I met him. I called him and he said... I said, "Hey, I got you- Your name was recommended by Alan and by Dennis, and I need some help at Choate." He said, "I'm not in- Again, I'm not interested." I said, "What do you mean you're not interested?" And he goes, "Well, I really don't know the boat. I really, you know, whatever, and I don't know what you're gonna do, and you're probably, basically you're probably not gonna do it right." And, and he said, "I just got done with s- shoulder surgery, and I can't rig right now, and I'm not... I, I just can't do it. I can't physically do it. It's not gonna work for me. And I, you know, I live outside of Las Vegas." And I was like, "Okay. Well, can you just go visit the boat? Can you go two days a week? Can I just buy you tacos and beer on Tuesday night- and you can go visit the boat and tell me if we're going the right direction or the wrong direction?" You don't take, you don't take no for an answer, do you? Is your, your initial response is, "Oh. Well, no, that's okay, bro. We'll find somebody else." Like, "Oh, no. No, well, come down and check it out." Right? Like- Oh, yeah, no means not right now. That's all no means. Not right now. So I convinced him. I said, "You know, and furthermore, I've got Dennis and Alan barking at me, and you know, those guys are barking at each other, and you know, this is out of control. Can you just do this for a couple of months, and then we can hand it off to someone you might recommend?" Well, so Jimmy starts showing up, and starts showing up, and now Jimmy's in charge of the project. Mm. Kind of worked out that way. Interesting. That's fabulous. And you know, the thing about Jimmy, it's the hard e- exterior shell that, um, you know, he'd just as soon tell somebody to fuck off than anything else, but once you get, you know, to the gooey center, he's a great guy. He's a great guy. Oh. I tell you, he is one of my best friends. He did so much more than just refit Ragtime with me. He watched me cry on that boat so many times. He held my hand, you know, not in the figuratively. Understood. But he watched me c- literally cry- cry on that boat so many times as we began to dismantle it, and had to make hard decisions that he would not make. You know, he'd go, "You gotta come visit the boat." So I'd fly to go visit the boat. I'd be in town. I'd sit on the boat, and he's like, "Tina, we gotta fix this cockpit." "No, we can't touch it." "We have to keep it. It has to be that way, 'cause it's always been that way, and people won't recognize it. You know, it's gotta be that." And he'd go, "Okay. Well, let me just show you what that looks like." And he would do the same thing that I did to him, which is he'd back me into it, and you know, I'd just be in tears like, "I can't believe you're gonna make me cut the cockpit out." But you did. And he was amazing. But you did. Well, I did because it was the right thing to do. Of course. He was really smart at reasoning with me and still let me have some of my emotion, because I had so much emotion around, I can't cut up Chris' prized possession. That is like, you've seen boats that are just not- Oh they, they didn't work out, right? It was a bad f- it was a bad plastic surgery session. Let me, let me give you the first example, and perhaps one of the worst. So when Leif Bielie got ahold of Merlin- Oh my God. Yeah. Butchered. Butchered, butchered, butchered. And like that's, you didn't wanna go anywhere near that territory. So the things that you did, in my estimation, again, not having been on the boat just looking at the pictures, I think you did them right. And what I lo- Jimmy would, would find this a bit odd, but so Jimmy was Jimmy and I were friends, and he was part of the posse. But you know, again, that hard, that hard-ass guy, um, don't look at him sideways 'cause he'll call you out. But, but I love that Jimmy fell into this role that he's developed on his own, like his, his ability to manifest himself into something other than what he was perceived as. And you, the only way you could get that out of a guy like Jimmy is to get to know him like you did. And like you say, you're, he's one of your best friends, and I can see why. Because I, I knew the, I knew him. I loved it. Loved having Jimmy with me, you know? And, uh, you know, those were the good old days for me. And, um, and so that's really cool that Jimmy was the guy. And then when you So then when it came to sailing, so you cho- you chose North Sails. And did you put a new rig on it, or did you go with the same rig you had? Well, no, no, no, no. So we had a TP52 rig that Chris had brought over from Valencia. Oh. It was the Aud- it was the Audi team's- Huh uh, TP52 rig. It was one of their offshore rigs during the Med Series, the TP52 Med Series from like '09, 10, 2010. It went up for sale around 2018, I wanna say '17, and Chris bought this rig. And he, you know, didn't pay that much to have it shipped over. He bought it for nothing. Well, come to find out it had never sailed before. Hmm. So the rig was brand new. It had been wrapped. It had been well-stored, well-preserved, and it came off of one of those Audi boats. And it, it took Jimmy and I a long time to figure out what boat it came off of, what was it built for, and Jimmy was fantastic about that rig. We had a boom. The boom came off of a, I used to call it the cadaver boat. We bought a boat that was in pieces, a carbon boat out of cows, um, and we shipped off all the pieces and parts- and shoved it in a container and brought it over and then kind of picked through it as, "Well, we'll take, you know, those spin lock jammers, and we'll take this, all this brand-new equipment." And that was very Chris. Chris loved a good yard sale, you know? And if there was something that he could get for pretty cheap but it could, it fit in the boat, you know, the engine, the rig, all these different pieces and parts. And Jimmy was really good at- putting those all back together in a way that, I mean, the engine is a Mercedes smart car engine- that's been marinized. You're kidding. Okay? People laugh. That's funny. No, they opened the crate and looked at me. The guy at Tschoof actually stood up, threw his hands up in the air, and says, "I'm not touching that fucking engine." Who could blame him? And he walked away. And I, again, I was in tears, like, "We have to use this engine 'cause it's what Chris wanted." Chris wanted, right. Right. You know, Jimmy's like, "You know, here's a Kleenex, and we'll figure it out." That is so great. So- So you had the, so that's the r- We put all that in- That's- and then I get introduced to Ernie. Okay, and that's the rig that you have. That's the rig we have. That is so- It's a 252 rig. That- We worked with Southern. Um, I think we excruciatingly worked with Southern. It was difficult. Of course, they are difficult, but you want them to ensure that the rig that you're putting in the boat is gonna be the right- Right time and space. Of course. We had to cut back, yeah, cut back the swept spreaders. Uh, we put EC3 rigging, um, 'cause I wanted all carbon rigging for the strength, you know, and that was a hand-wringing process because every time you step up and, you know, rod to EC3 to EC6, you know, you're doubling your do- you're doubling down. You know, you're at a poker game. Let, let me, let me interject right there. So w- great decisions, but then immediately you have to go, "Well, can the boat take the loads that we're gonna generate now out of this new sail plan?" Bring in Alan, right? So Alan, how do we get the boat to take- Hmm that load? And Alan had already been working on a chain plate design with Chris, so they had already been working on the rig and the loads, and how were they gonna get that rig to work on the boat. The boat's- 11 and a half wide. Right? And the TP52 is how wide? You know, it was 16, 17 I was gonna say 16, 17 feet, yeah. That's how much we had to cut that rig down. Oh, good lord. So, a lot. And so, and Southern, you know, this was a, like a head-scratcher for Southern. And so Alan, when he designed the chainplates, which is one of the most fascinating designs on that boat that is way underneath the boat that you have no concept of, is that he faired those chainplates into the carbon structure of the boat, that Chris had actually added in 2008, and faired that in so that when the rig wants to lift the deck off the boat, there's actually no pressure on the deck. It's all, yeah It actually tries to lift it off from the keel- because it's wrapped in, basically wrapped into the structure that is the keel. Got it, and that's all internal, right? That's all inside. Right. 'Cause it's funny, 'cause from the- So it's lifting up and- From the outside, Tina, the, like, oh, okay, like I was looking at a picture just before you came on, I'm like, "Okay, those chainplates are... it's kind of interesting." No, no, no, they're not interesting. What's underneath and inside, that's what's interesting, right? It's art. Yeah. It is art, Scott. Yeah. Because the chainplates that we took off of that boat for the previous rig were 5 1/2 feet tall and I couldn't lift them. The chainpla- that we put on, you know, is 26 inches and I can carry it. That's awesome. Wow. So- How much, how much did you guys have to cut the spreaders down? Uh, they were a good, I wanna say they were a good, they were a good almost two feet to 18 inches. Oh my God. It was a lot. And Southern's going, "Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's, let's talk about this," right? 'Cause that's un- Yep semi unheard of. I mean Well, and of course Southern, you know, Southern wants to bill you for meetings to have meetings about meetings. So you have to It's, it's, you know, it's a lot of expense management. I will say that was my full-time job. I believe it. And it was, but it was, it was a true test of really, you know, Chris was intent on the engine, he was intent on the rig, and he was, you know, really intent on making this a boat that could sail with a square top main- Right which is why our sail plan included that. So Doyle became part of our program in the beginning to, to really work with this boat because Doyle's deep history in New Zealand. Sure. Understood. And so Stu Bannatyne and Jimmy and I- Really Stu and Jimmy and kind of Alan put the sail plan together. Got it. But I wouldn't say that today our sail plan resembles anything what it was. You know, you're just going out going, "Hey, I got a brand-new car. I'm not sure if I want new rims yet. You know, maybe different tires, and, you know, it's a f- I might put a, you know, 4x4 lifter kit on it." You're, you're just trying to put the boat back together. Yeah, yeah. And then let's go out and see what happens, 'cause every day is a test. Sure. Absolutely. What are we gonna break? Right. And did you break much? And that was where Jimmy- Did you break much? Was that... No. No, no. I didn't think so. No, we don't break. Yeah. No. But that's Jimmy, because Jimmy would say to me, he goes, he... You know, and you can hear this, Scott, if you know Jimmy Slaughter. He'd stand on the bow of the boat and he'd go, "We're not doing that because some dumb young bowman's gonna get on here thinking he's the hottest thing on the planet, and zoom, it's gonna get away from him, and that dumbass is gonna be running all around this boat like a chicken with his head cut off." You can hear Jimmy saying all this, right? I can totally hear it. So that snotty attitude of his actually comes to, comes to use, you know? I mean, really, it's... He's, like, just honest about stuff. That's all. His experience was so deep- Yeah in getting run over and battered on the bow and in the cockpit that he was like, for every guy on our boat that thinks safety is an option, it's like Jimmy Slaughter thought it that way before you did. Jimmy Slaughter has come back to the guys in the back and bo- and probably s- uttered this phrase 300 times, "Fuck you guys." Like- See, we know him very well. Um, but that "fuck you guys" attitude is because he, he wants it done right, and he has the knowledge to know what needs to be done. So at first pe- a lot of people would just blow Jimmy off, like, "Oh, that guy's just such a dick. He's got a snotty attitude. He's not gonna fit here." Meanwhile, other guys go, "No, no, no, wait, wait, wait a minute. He's done this, this, and this, and this. And when he says that, give it a listen." You know, and I think you did that, and you, you turned that into a, a, a, a, a sort of a partnership. And, and so then Jimmy, once you've, once Jimmy's your friend, Jimmy's gonna do everything in the boat's best interest. That's it. He also was very protective of me- I believe it which at the time was really critical, because, you know, I've got fur flying everywhere. I had to... I mean, I never went back to work. I had to quit my job. I had to take over Chris's companies. You know, I had people coming at me left and right, swinging. You know, it's a whole matter. And so Jimmy was super protective. And Jimmy, you know, I'm very beloved to him because he, he respected that I wanted to know. He didn't go, "Oh, you dumb blonde. You know, you don't know shit about sailing, and now you want me to put this boat together." That was probably his first thought, but as we got into the project, he was like, "No, actually she wants to learn." I'd make him get on the phone with me for an hour and go, "Okay, now explain this to me. Why are we gonna do that? What's behind that?" And what's funny about- "What do you mean by that?" What's funny about Jimmy is he really is a man of few words. And so to get him on the phone for an hour, that you've got him. I mean, you, you've got him. He's in. He's all in. That- Yep I think that's so great. That's... Really, just props to you for that. And he taught me. You know, he... I, I'm very forward, and you know where you stand the day you meet me, and that's the same way you'll know where you stand the day we part. I'm very forward, and I'm very confident in a way that I think Jimmy- respected that I made decisions very quickly, I didn't dwell on them, and I trusted him. Can I tell you something? And- Jimmy also has a- Yeah if you, you've met his wife, uh, he's got a thing for good-looking blondes, so you know, you- It was e- easy for you to get him. Yeah, I got him a little bit on there. Right. Yeah, it was, um... We had a very, it was a, it was really funny with the day that we launched the boat out of Choate's yard, you know, I'm, I'm standing kind of over in the corner, and I got, you know, a couple, trying to be very stoic. Right. I've got a couple tears in my eyes, and he comes over and he goes, "Shut the fuck up and let's go." Oh my God, that's so, that's- Like, let's go so Jimmy. I'm like, "Come on, Jimmy." So- He was, like, not gonna let me go there a question for you then. Uh, I'm surprised Jimmy isn't on the boat. Or is it just it was time to move on for him, or? No, he told me he was never gonna be on the boat. Okay. Okay. Nope. He's like, "I'm never sailing on the boat." He goes, "I'll sail on the boat. I'll get you started. We'll get you out there, but I'm not on the boat." 'Cause I was like, "Jimmy, why don't you just help me ru- "Nope, I don't wanna do it. I don't want anything to do with it." Interesting. "I want nothing." And I said, "Well, who am, what am I gonna do? Who am I gonna, who am I, who's gonna run the boat? You can't just walk away from this." And that led you to Ernie? "We've been two and a half years together, buddy." Right, and that led you to Ernie? Yeah, he goes, "Well, you know, I, I kinda think you should talk to a few people." So I went and talked to one guy, and w- I got done with that conversation, and it's not worth mentioning, and I was like, "I don't think I can do that. I need, now that I've been through this project, I need someone who's gonna take Rag Time on- Because she is a classic wood boat, and I hear Jimmy in the back of my mind as I say this, is he would say, "Don't let them screw her up." Do n- she, she needs to be handled carefully. Right. Right. Do not let them screw her up, and you've gotta find people who are gonna take care of the boat, Tina. Now- You've spent way too much resources on this to not make someone take care of the boat. Now, nobody's ever gonna call Jimmy Slaughter an angel, but Jimmy, Jimmy truly was a angel on your shoulder. He was, and he still is my angel. That's so great. I love that. Really. Who's the first person I talk to when we win Pacific Cup? Jimmy Slaughter. Oh, that's bitching. You know, it's like calling my brother. "Guess what? Guess what?" You know. So he, he says, "You know, I think you should talk to this guy Ernie, Ernie Rochow," and I was like, "Okay. Sure." He goes als- you know, "Here's his number. Give him a call. I don't know if he's interested." I don't know Ernie from Jack. Yeah. You know, again, I don't know any of these people. I'm not in the sailing world. Right. By the way, honorably mentioned, half deck, um- Oh David Johnson off of Windward Passage. Yeah. Um, Ben, he was with me through that whole build, and he would come up and take me out to lunch. "How's it going, Tina? How's it going?" And I'd cry on his shoulder, you know. And he'd wipe up my tears and shove me back in there. Just a- And he was such an inspiration. Such a special dude True inspiration just, just a, just- Yes anybody that knew him w- just, just loved him, you know? Yes. You know? Honorable. Right. That's really great. And he was great. And so anyway, I go meet Ernie Rochow, and I thought, "Well, we'll see how this guy lines up." And I take him to this uber, you know, cool, trendy coffee shop down in Newport Beach where all the cool kids go. And I'm like, "Well, we'll see about this guy." And he sits down with this notebook, and he says, I s- you know, we do a little bit of, you know, who are you and who am I, and what are we doing? And he opens, he goes, "Well, I got a few questions." Oh, okay. Sure, ask away. So he's like, "Well, what's your plan? And, you know, what are you doing, and what do you want?" And, you know, he goes s- I mean, the, I'm not gonna question Scott, I'm talking pages. Our 15, 30-minute meet and greet lasted two hours. Yes. Yeah, there you go. See, uh- And he goes, "You know, I really don't know that I really wanna do this." That was his final words. Sure. "I'm not really sure this is for me." Okay. Honest. And that's what I said. I said, "Okay." Honest. "I appreciate that." You, you- And I said, "I'll tell you though, it won't be any funner anywhere else." That's a key thing, and you don't want, you know, I can just tell by who you are, you don't want people blowing smoke up your rear end, and you know when they are. And so when people say, "I'm not sure. I don't..." Like Jimmy and Ernie, uh, you're like, "Oh, okay, I appreciate the honesty." And but then you look beyond just that answer, Alan Andrews saying no, and then you go, "Wait, I, there's, there's something more here." And you found it with Ernie. It's funny, Ernie, I've known... Ernie and I have always sailed in slightly different circles. I think we're in the same age range maybe, um, but I know a lot of the people that he sailed with, and he knows people that I've sailed with. I was San Diego bound. I didn't come up to, up, up north too, too much and, uh, just didn't run in those circles, you know. It's like a little bit with Keith. Let me, can I just interject something here. So Keith, do you know how Keith and I became friends? No. So Keith, Keith was on an Andrews 53, starts with a P, I forget the name of it. It was brand, brand new. Oh, God, he's gonna kill me for forgetting the name. Um, and I was, I was the guy, uh, I don't know if you know who Jeff Chandler was from the Chandler family, LA Times family. Yep. And, um, yeah, and both Jeff and Bruce, his brothers, they always had boats. And Jeff, uh, I was selling sails back then. And, you know, Jeff came in and, you know, we s- we, uh, I showed him a big s- one of the big early Genesis sails we had on the floor, which was the very first, uh, iteration of string sails before North 3DL, I'll say. Uh, but, but and having said it, we sort of hit it off. So he said, um, "Yeah, I'm thinking about getting a Santa Cruz 52." He goes, "You wanna come up and sail on the one up there?" I'm like, "Sure." So we flew up in his, I think his private jet, and, um, we went sailing on the boat and- Up in Santa Cruz. And the fir- so as soon as Jeff and I had a minute, I go, "Thing needs a bigger rig. It's It'd be a dog in San Diego. This thing's a dog." 'Cause there wasn't that much wind. I'm like, "This thing's a pig." And I'd been sailing on pretty high performance boats sort of of that era. I'm like, "I know what a fast light air boat is." You know, the Nelson/Merrick 41 Reliance, that's a fast light air boat. The Nelson/Merrick 44 Travieso, that's a fast light air boat. Uh, Free Fall, the Farr 40 was a fast light air boat. So I just knew like, mm-mm, this boat's not. So w- Alejandro was building carbon rigs there, and I, I think we went up, God, I wanna say four or five feet. It was a huge rig. And put a carbon deck on the boat, and the thing was just super fast. So but it, it didn't rate particularly well, whereas the Andrews 53 did. And so while we would I think it was a I forget where we were going, to Cabo or something. And we were, you know, battling with them on the water and, uh, you know, we got We had a It was a beat into the finish, I remember, in some decent breeze. And they were at They crossed ahead of us, and then we crossed and we And then we got ahead of them on a little shift, and we beat them across the finish line. And, and to us it was a big deal. We knew they'd beaten us corrected time, but we're on a Santa Cruz 52. Nobody's thinking anything. But we got a giant rig and I had some good people. I'm not sure Jimmy wasn't on the boat. I'm not sure. But, but so of all And they were all from Newport Beach. And, you know, Newport Beach people, listen, they can be dickish. And nobody on that boat, they'd just stare over at us. But, you know, Keith came over to us, the only guy, and said, "Dude, I gotta tell you guys, y- you guys are doing unbel- like, you guys are so good. Like, the boat's so fast. Like, oh my God." You know, and so I got the And he So he was the guy with the heart who came over and recognized, you know, what we were doing, and that was the beginning of our really long friendship. You know? We're, we're very good friends about a lot of different things, mostly NASCAR honestly. Um, but, but, um, so I've always appreciated him for being that kind of guy. So when it kinda came semi full circle for him and whatever, and for me, him to end up on the boat, you know, it's, it's almost It's not almost. It's poetic in a lot of ways. Yeah. Yeah, it's Well, I mean, Keith is- Keith is- He's a master. He's, he's such- These guys are all that way, right? I know. Like, that's what's so cool about Rag Time, is that she's also reincarnated some of these guys. Sure. As much as she is reincarnated, right? Jimmy with his shoulder, "I'm not coming back, I'm not doing that work" finds his own inside of Rag Time for two and a half years with me. Ernie Rochow, "I don't need to do this. I'm retiring" you know, finds himself within the Rag Time program. Keith Kilpatrick is taking care of Pyewack at 70, would rather be h- in Antigua for months on end and would rather be home, finds himself on Rag Time. Yep. You know, she draws I can't tell you how many people have said th- this. She chooses who's on her. She chooses her owners. She chooses, ultimately, really, and guides as to w- And that sounds weird- It- but it is. It's just- It- what that boat does. It's weird, but it's not, and I'll use, uh, y- one of your guys who sails with you, Eric Heim, as a perfect example. So Eric and I, I mean, he used to sail with me on my first Flying Tiger. He had long hair. He was kind of a hippie, and I think he worked for Ullman Newport Beach or something. And him and another guy named Keith Magnuson, I don't know how we got in touch. I think the Anarchy thing sort of attracted them, you know, younger guys, and, "Who's this old fucker calling his boats Anarchy?" And, and turned out I'm very anarchistic. And, you know, even though it was an age difference, there was a definite re- relatability, and they liked the way we sailed, and we sailed really good. And so I sa- he sailed with me on a lot of my boats over the years. And Eric Heim is an old soul in so many ways. Um, he's the perfect blending, I think, of, like, being one of the youn- I don't know if he b- Is he, is he still younger? But in my book, one of the younger sailors who came up, but has an appreciation for a little bit of the history and a lot of the heart of the sport, which is in, in, sadly missing in a lot of sort of what goes on in the sport. It's money and big time, and it's a bus- it's not even a business, but we're gonna run it like a business, and a lot of fuck yous from a lot of people, like, who just, you know, "This, we're here, and you're not here, and that's the way it is." But Eric has always been relatable to a lot of different people, and he's a really good sailor. And he's just an absolute joy to have on board, as you no doubt have found out. Well, and I found out at 2:00 AM on a watch that he wrote his, you know, his thesis paper in high school on the history of the sleds in the '80s and '90s. He knows more about the history of these sleds than most people. Sure. Sure. It's awesome. So, you know, th- again, his passion for being on Rag Time is, "Yeah, I wrote about these boats." "I've studied these boats. I love these boats." You know, it's, it's really hard to be an owner, I think right now in this era, because you have what you just talked about is you either have It's so much money to be spent on a program that is so excessive, and, you know, the expectations with crews are you're flying them around and they're, you know, they're very well-paid now. They're ex- extremely well-paid in some cases, I'm not saying all of them- Yep for the talent. Yep, yep. And it's hard to compete because, you know, just like, just like the Etchells class, those Etchells- Yep Big World Series all around the world, you know, it's not three brothers who take their- Mm-hmm family Etchells to go sailing anymore. Mm-mm, mm-mm. It's pro sailors. Yeah, it's pro sailors. If you're gonna win, it's pro sailors. And you know what's funny about that? Some of the bigger boats, I guarantee the, some of the pros that get, you know, pulled on the boat, they, they haven't even met the owner. They barely even know the owner. Like, the owner couldn't pick some of these guys out of a lineup. Um, you know- Yeah because there's so many- Even in those big programs Right. Yeah. That's, that's kinda what I mean. There's so many people on board and, you know, you virtually have to pay everybody. And sure, the, the big swingin' dick pros, you know, who are protecting their turf, they're sure they know those guys because, you know, they, they won't go away. But i- if, if I had, say for example I had your money and I did a program similar to Ragtime, you can bet your ass it'd be full of Eric Hymes and Keith Kilpatricks. The problem is there's only one of those guys, but there are other guys similar to them that I would find. There's a guy named Paige Johnson who was on the, uh, Haliwa, or however you say that. He's a guy who sailed with me forever. He's that kinda guy, man. He's really good, really smart, and but he's, he's got a, a soul to the, that relates to the sport in a larger sense, in a historical sense. And those kinda guys who are there for the right reasons are the kinda guys you want on board, and I think you've, you found them. Well, it's really hard to be attractive to the younger crowd, right? The young guys that are coming up and sailing- Yep are sailing on, you know, carbon fiber, super fast. They, they're, they're all about, you know- Yep the need for speed. Yep. And they're not into slogging across an ocean. That's just- Yeah that's not attractive to them. No. Very few of them, you know? And, and they're like, "Why would I wanna go on a boat that has two big poles that stick out the side of the mast- with this big giant spinnaker pole- Mm and have to jerry around with how we're gonna get the staysails working, and when I can just go on a carbon boat and run up and throw up some sails and we're going 25?" You know what I love, you know what I love about... One of the things, I just love Eric Heim to death. Um, uh, so I asked him, you know, early on when he was on the boat, I go, "So how's the boat?" He goes, "If you like poles, it's great." You know, like, that's Eric- That's so Eric Heim, right? That's just such a direct- Yep honest answer, you know? Now, of course, it doesn't, it doesn't show the whole picture. Well, he fits really well on the boat, because he has a very calm, soothing personality. He does. He does. And, you know, we have the rage machine in Keith, and we've got Ernie coming up yelling that you're not going the right direction. And, you know, I, I say that jokingly. There is no yelling on our boat. I know what you mean. Um- I get it but very passionate. Yeah. And that, that is, Keith and Ernie are so good together. It's a dance. You know, Keith is very much about, "I will put this boat, Ernie, anywhere you tell me to put it. You tell me where I should go, and I will go there, and it will be within a very slim margin of error. I'm not gonna figure out how to go there. I just want you to tell me how to get there" Yes. Absolutely. Right? Right. And, and it is such a beautiful dance to watch the two of those guys manage through this race particularly, is that, just the trust. And that's probably the number one thing that I, has been kind of a consistent theme. Two pieces of it I'll say is, one is we have just built a degree of trust both in each other, because we all are here for the same purpose, and the same purpose is a boat that can be a competitive boat, that can be a contender, and that we're gonna win some races. And, and- We're gonna win as many as we can and you're gonna have fun during the whole thing. Yes. Sure, sure, it's hard work. Of course it is. We get that. We get that. And none of us are young. None of us are young, right? We think that we can sail smarter, and faster, and better, because we do have the experience that we have. And in addition to that, with the trust, we trust the boat. This race very specifically, Keith said, "I really feel like I trust the boat now" Because you're always waiting for boats to break into 15 pieces, right? Especially one from 1962. So, you know- Yeah it's, it's really no surprise. It's interesting, I asked Keith, uh And by the way, thanks for just such a great interview. You are just awesome. And, and he validated exactly. So I said, "What is Tina like?" And he hesitated because he couldn't say enough good things about you. You know, you know me, I'm not bull- Aw I wouldn't bullshit you. I wouldn't even say it. I mean, if anything, I'd throw him under the bus for how he dissed you. But he n- He Yeah, you know I would. But he never has. It's like he sometimes, he stumbles to like, like he goes, "Dude, I can't even really explain it. Like, she's so awesome in every... She's smart. She's this, she's that." And I can see by your personality why pe- why guys would wanna sail with you. And you mentioned the word experience, and I wanna expand upon that. So these guys have real experience, not to say you don't, but you have new experience and, let's just say new-ish, and you bring in a perspective that's a little different maybe than the, the wisened old owners who, you know, um, they say a thing, uh, you know, "I know what I'm doing, I'm gonna do this, let's do that. I'm gonna have the same... No, I don't want those guys, I want these guys." And you come in with a little different of a perspective, and I think that melds really nicely with the guys who have the decades of doing it. And, uh, I think that's part of your guys' secret sauce, since I know at least, you know, I know you, now I know you, and, um- Mm-hmm and, and of course Keith and Eric. And, you know, that's why I like to get those guys to contribute a little bit. If it doesn't go on the front page, fine, but at least I, I like to hear what's going on because I'm like that too. I mean, I, sure I'm an old guy who's done a, a ton of stuff, but I'm not up on a lot of the latest stuff in terms of, you know, some of the stay sails and some of the rig configurations. I'm not, um, you know, I'm not, I'm not up on some of the terminology because I'm a little out, I'm out of that game. I've aged out of that game. But it doesn't mean I can't, like, look at it with a fresh set of eyes. Of course, there's nothing behind the eyes. There's no brain back there. I'm just looking at it, and then you ask me what I think, and I'll go, "Mm-mm. Mm-mm." Um, but, but I love, there's a chemistry here that, that you have created. You set the tone for the whole thing. How did you pick Jimmy Slaughter, despite his nose? How did you pick Alan Andrews? How did you pick Dennis Choe? Like, holy Christ, I'm gonna find so- I don't care where the bus to go. N- I'm not going here. How did you do that? You did it, and you recognized the, h- these guys for what they are. And I mean, seriously, Tina, fucking awesome job. Oh, thank you. You know, Rag Time's a brand. She's a lifestyle. Right. It is a lifestyle. And so all of, from me to all the rest of the crew, is that we have to live the brand because all of those sailors who have sailed before us on this boat, and there are a ton of them- Yep because it was amateur sailing- All of those sailors we owe a respect to for being on this boat, for sailing on this boat, and getting her to where she is today. And who she is today is a testament of time and a testament of this sport. It helps to have some financial resources, but this sport needs more rag times. It does. This sport needs more of what we have. I'm working really hard with other sled owners to bring their sleds to the forefront and come race with me. Like, come race with me, please. I call them all the time, "Hey, are you gonna..." You know, Chip Merlin and I have a great relationship. Roy Disney and I have a great relationship. You know, Craig Reynolds on Bolt, I mean, we I seek them out. Come race with me. Come play with me in the ocean. And we can all sit down and have a beer together when it's over- Yes just like the way these boats were meant to be. The, and the way it used to be. I mean- Yes I'm old school. I know what it's like. You come back after the race, everybody maybe jumps on somebody's boat, and you just talk about the race, and you, you know, have a cocktail and beers, and, you know, you, you develop, it's a sense of community, and that's been missing from this sport in a, in a large way. Um, it's been- Sailing is not meant to be on r- on social media. Well, wait a minute now. It's just not. Oh, yes it is. It's, and it's meant to be on rule69.com. How dare you. I'm ending this interview. That's it, Tina. Oh, we're over. I'm not We're, it's done. I'm not coming with you on By the way, should I send you my day rate when I come I'm kidding. I don't have a day rate. That's right. People- That's right I, I would pay people to sail with them. Um, so- Well, I gotta, I gotta teach you. I gotta teach you one. You're exclusive, but you could be had. God, I'm such a sucker. Um- I'm an easy lay, let's just say that. Um, the, the thing is, so what you've tapped into, so you've t- you've, you've created this, this thing on your boat, which is masterful with the people, and it's all, and it's, it's all paid off with this result. Oh my God, it's, this has gotta be so fucking rewarding to you. But you just touched on something. Come on out, guys. Come out. And so people aren't, maybe aren't doing it, but that keep, sense of community has been really diluted, uh, and dissipated. Hasn't necessarily disappeared, but it's, it's, it's moribund. It's not, it's not active. And for you banging the door, um, "Come on, come on, let's go, let's go", I, I, I hope, 'cause I honestly, I looked at the entry and I'm like, oh my God, where is everybody? Where are the J125s that used to show up? Where are And there was a couple of Santa Cruz 50s, okay, but where was Deception, for Christ's sake? Where was the others, where were the other sleds? Where was GI? Where was, just fill in the blanks, you know? Um, we're not talking volumes of boats. Just give me the threes and twos and four boats that would've come out in each class, and, and it transforms into something a little different and something a little better. So, you know, I l- I like what you're doing. They probably, they probably don't take your calls anymore. They're like, "Oh, Christ, it's Tina calling." Oh, no. I think, I think we finally added some legitimacy to why you should come out, because you can be a ragtime and win an ORR race. You, you can. You absolutely can. And- We can. We just proved it You did just prove it. And you can look around and there are a lot of boats. It doesn't have to be a, a type like Ragtime. It can be fill in the blank. It could be a, a late IMS boat. It could be a, you know, a number of boats that could be made competitive, um, and that are okay to sail, not these horrible IOR things, you know, with their giant fraccy rigs and, oh, Jesus, they're just a nightmare. Um, but, you know, you could do that. They're out there, and, uh, it just, it just takes people getting them going in that direction. You know, it's like, "Oh, my God, how much is this gonna cost?" You don't wanna know. Um, and, uh, and so but you have to be able to look beyond that, and only certain people such as yourself have the ability to do that, and have indeed done that. So, you know, I'll, I'll just say this. I'm When I started Sailing Anarchy all those years ago, listen, there was no f- there was no internet. No internet. There was barely email. I swear to God, there was no Amazon. There was nothing. And so I was also doing business talk radio. I don't wanna make this about me, but it, I, i- i- it's, I think it's relevant. And so we met this great s- stock trader guy named Chris Greenack, and he had started a little investor website called Clearstation. Not Clear Channel, Clearstation. And it was about It's a place where the really smart investors gathered, and he first started talking about the sense of community. And I, I didn't, I didn't know what he was talking about. But then as I was, Sailing Anarchy was going along, and okay, I'm putting up these articles, and okay, okay, and people are wondering. I never made the site about me, and I don't make s- I don't make Rule 69 about me either. I want it to be about people. I want to be I'm telling stories about other people, not me. It's not It's every now and then, sure, I toot my horn, of course. I don't want people to forget about me. But, um, then I started to think, "Well, how? Oh, community. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Can I create a community here? Do I have enough..." So I said, "Well, ch- I think a forum. I think I have to have a forum." And I, I said to myself all those years ago, I don't, I don't have many oh, wow moments, but I said, "I think the lifeblood of a website is going to be the forum." So I started this forum, and people come, people came, and people came, and God damn it, if w- I didn't, we didn't create a community. Not me. I just had the idea. It obviously takes the community to make a community. And, you know, you are, you are on the right track here. So I want you to know that whether it's this application or maybe other areas in sailing that you see, that, you know, you think there's, like, words c- that can be written or things that can be said or examples set to help, you know, nurture the, the community and, and bring it back to some degree. Maybe the numbers will never be there. They may not ever, but boy, wouldn't it be great to have something a little bit bigger that, than we have, uh, from a, from your perspective and from really the sports perspective? The answer is yes It is. Absolutely, yes. And that is looking beyond your own boat to the rest of the fleet and saying, "How can we all do this together?" Yeah. Yeah. 100%. 100%. 100%. You, uh, you, you are just fascinating. I'm gonna talk your goddamn ear off on Long Point. Um- But actually it's going to be a race. Who's gonna talk each other out? I mean, y- you are a little younger, a little more vitality. You might win, but we have tons to talk about. Let me ask you a final question before I let you go, and th- again, thank you. Absolutely. Females on Ragtime, is that a priority for you? Is that something you're inter- It was a pri- it was a priority our first year. Um- O- okay we had Sophie Siczek, who was a two-time Volvo bowman. Okay. Bowwoman. Yep. Um, and, uh, she was out at Tasmania. We brought her from Tasmania when we raced, when we started Transpac last year. I remember. Um, and I also had Katie Pettibone, who had also been on a Volvo campaign, member at Saint Francis Yacht Club, along with, uh, myself. So we had three women. Uh, I like, you know, I, I really wanted a mix- Yeah not from... I'm not a bra burner. I don't look and go, "Oh, I'm gonna go do this strong female thing." I don't need to do any of that. Right. I just already am that. Yep. Yeah, you are. You are. You know, it, I, I didn't grow up going, I, men and women are different. I grew up going, we're pretty much you can do anything you want in this world if you apply yourself smartly. So it doesn't matter what gender you are. Having those women on the boat was because I wanted to celebrate strong women in sailing and give them a, and have them give me a chance. It wasn't me giving them chances. They'd had plenty. They had a hell of a lot more experience than I did. But having them give me a chance to sail with them and see what their application was- Yep It became over time, when we started putting our crew together after Transpac last year, is that I changed my focus to, okay, now I understand more about what a crew looks like and who's on the crew, that for me it's about the application of the personalities. I am very personality trait driven, and I pick and choose with Ernie and Keith, uh, personalities that match what we need on the boat. Yes. I don't care what gender you are. No. I tried really hard to bring other women on the boat. The sport lacks experience. It just bottom line lacks experience. It does. And the, and the place we need women, the place we need people, the place we need sailors is on the bow, and that's a very difficult place for women to start. Very much so. Hard. Very much so. I've, I've personally, I've always liked having women on board, and I think of all the boats that I've I mean, I, I've owned a, a ton of all small, relatively small boats. But I've always loved doing a semi version. Uh, I've done the I like to do the white trash version of what you've done, you know? Of like, I, I bought a- I bought, I bought an old Santa Cruz 33, uh, thinking that it would, I would be reliving my teenage years when the Santa Cruz 33s were red hot. Yeah, that was a dismal failure because the boat was such a pig. But I'm like, "Oh, this is It's It was a boat called Ajax, and it had some history, and I thought, "Oh, cool. I'm gonna re-" And we redid the thing, and it really looked really cool, but it was such a pig. But I've always brought my girlfriends on board, whether they knew how to sail or not. And if they didn't know how to sail, and there really was only one that didn't, uh, I taught her how to sail, and she became a part of the crew. And there's, fr- from a male perspective, sure, it's better to look at- Good-looking female crew member than Keith, but, um- But, but w- The bar, the bar is low But w- I know. But what I like about females on board is it sh- they're just better people than men. I mean, they're just, they're, they tend not to be a-holes. Uh, they tend, they, you know, it's I like them to contribute. They're not just there to sit there. I want them to do stuff. And, but there's, the vibe on board, my, my, my pr- my experience is that a vibe on board with a few women who a- are f- are fitting in, they know everybody in the boat, and can all chat, and they have their little, their roles, whatever. I didn't mean to say little. Some, most of the girls have been smallish and they couldn't really do too much, but, uh, but they did something. You know, one was just, she squirreled. That's all she did. She squirreled and then she learned how to pack the chute, and she fucking loved it. That was her job. And, and we loved it too. And, and so I've always found as a male owner, skipper, I like to have some girls on board 'cause it just changes the vibe on board just enough. It can take away too much testosterone and mellow it out a little bit. That probably doesn't make too much sense from your perspective, but as an owner, it, it's, I insisted upon it, you know? I just like it. Well, a, a, females on board a boat or inside your company or sitting in a board room just gives a different perspective. Mm-hmm. It softens the edges. Mm-hmm. And it also commands a little more, uh- team respect than, you know, back-scratching- True or, you know, crotch-scratching or whatever you wanna call it. It's amazing how men, in my experience in the meat industry, it's amazing how they kind of straighten up and- act like humans and, you know, all of a sudden, you know, okay, now we can have a discussion about it. Left alone, you know, you g- those are pretty rabid. Yeah, guy, I mean, we fall on our worst, you know, instincts, uh, if, if there's not- some check, you know? And females often operate as that. And plus, I like, I like girls who are ballers, you know? Like, girls that are, you know, not, they won't take any shit, they give shit and, but in a good-natured way, and they know how to sail. You know, that's a rare combination. Have you ever watched Landman? Yes. Okay. So one of the greatest scenes ever is that really good-looking attorney, the female attorney who comes, comes along. And you know where I'm going and, and- Yep s- whether it's the boardroom meeting or when, uh, uh, Billy Bob's son is charged with excessive force defending his girlfriend being raped, and she walks into that j- into that sheriff's office and she busts everybody's balls. It's like she's like a surgeon, a surgeon with- who's a little hungover and pissed off but can still wield that scalpel, and she carves every one of these sons of bitches up, and it's, like, so great. I mean, you know, Taylor Sheridan is fabulous. I heard an interview with him, uh, with Howard Stern, and I just, like, I had this whole new creati- creation of, of what he is and who he is. And just to do that, like, that is such a awesome kind of role. And, you know, it's like, it's the extreme example of keeping g- men in check. But listen, guys like that, you know, those a-hole attorneys and these a-hole cops, it's so great to see them eviscerated by a female. Um, so I, you know, I do understand that. N- we're not talking those levels, but it's the appreciation of what women can bring to a situation. Like, basically what she did is told all these motherfuckers, "Check yourself. Check yourself. Check yourself." And I lo- I gotta say, I love that stuff. Um, so it's interesting. I, I like your, your perspective on the female thing because I'm not bringing you on just because you have a vagina. I'm bringing you on because I think you're going to fit into this, what we've got here. I'm gonna give you a chance to see if you're gonna mesh. And, um, you know, those opportunities will no doubt come along, I think, uh, because there's just, there's plenty of good sailors, female sailors out there, you know? It's just a matter of finding them and, you know, getting them into your, into your program if it works out that way. But you have the right, it's the right approach. It's not gender-specific, specific. It's like- Are you gonna be ragtime specific? And, um- Well- And that's what you have, and it's, I'm sure the vibe, I'm sure the vibe, I can only im- I should have flown over for just the fucking cocktail parties with you guys, because I can only imagine the conversations and the laughs and the ball-busting and the, like, total love, you know, within, within the team. That's, that's the home run, Tina. I don't know if you know it, but I think you do know it, but you hit it. That's it. That's it. You just stand... Now what you've done, you've hit the... You're a little bit like, oh, I don't know, uh, Aaron Judge. You've hit the ball out of the park, and you stand there for a couple seconds and just admire your handiwork before you take off around the bases, you know? And, um, and that's... I'ma call you, I'ma start calling you Judge Well, I'm humbled by that because, um, you know, I, I get obviously a lot of compliments on the boat and how it's been restored. No doubt every time we're in a crowd, everyone comes over and looks at Ernie and Keith and go, "Wow, you guys have done such a great job with the boat. The boat looks so good. So what'd you guys do with it?" And Ernie and Keith every time go, "Don't talk to us- Right you need to talk to her." Talk to Tina. And now I- And they just look at me and they're like, "Oh." And Ernie will go, "She's the owner of Rag Time, and she's the one who did it." You know, it's, it- And it takes people a minute It d- it does. It's like, "What do you mean? Like, y- aren't you the guys?" "Y- y- we're kind of the guys. She's the guy. She's the one." Yeah. Right? And, um, and they do that out of total deference because you've earned their respect. Oh, by the way, they've earned yours. And, and so they're, they will do that. M- a lot of guys won't go, "Oh, hey, let me tell you what we did here," you know, and sit there and, you know, "Yeah, here's what we did," and, "Yeah, I, I thought, I came up with this." No, no, no. The best part about that, Scott, though, is that then when I open my mouth and stop, start talking about what we've done with Rag Time, what I did with Rag Time, and how we set it up that way and, you know, why this rig and why these chainplates or why we tie these things together, and I start talking like that, now I'm talking for any woman in sailing who could be the same thing. Could, could be the same thing. And, and, and what you're doing is this... So you have a, a number of things going for you. You're obviously smart as hell. Um, you're super articulate. You're a bit of a wordsmith. And, um, you know, you are And you have the passion behind Rag Time and, and your guys. And so it's like, oh, it's easy for you to talk about it because, "Ah, if I'm Tina Roberts, I'm in love with this boat. I'm in love with everything about it, my guys, my team, the history, Chris. Everything has come together in this, in this moment, really. This moment is, is- It couldn't be said better. Thank you. It could not be said better- Thank- and then you just did Thank you very much. Let me, let me just go ahead and just give myself some applause 'cause nobody else will. Well, I, you know, because you fire me up. Like, I'm the kinda guy, I won't say shit unless I got a reason to talk, whether it's to, you know, rag on something or to, like, go, "Oh, I c- ooh, I can relate to this," you know? And so you're ins- you're a inspirational force. I don't know if you know that, but you are, and I suspect that you do on some degree. And, and that, there's no price that can be put on that. I mean, you either have that or you don't. And, um, you know, people will s- often talk about sailing in a not necessarily a perfunctory way, but in as a, like, ma- sometimes a matter of fact- You know, it's, "Oh, yeah, this boat and that boat. Yeah, it's a good boat," blah, blah, blah. But you come from a different perspective. It's, yeah, it's a b- no, it's not a boat. It's Ragtime, God damn it. And, um- It's a lifestyle. It is. It's a brand. It's a brand. Can I be your brand manager? Yeah. I don't, actually- Yes I don't think you need one. I couldn't pick anybody better than you. I was lo- You have the megaphone for it. I, I do have that, you know? And, you know, I'm, I'm often, you know, misinterpreted. Um, you know, and I was a little bit by design. I mean, 'cause just I came out with an attitude, like I'm the anarchist. You know, I think, uh, Bruce Nelson, um, yeah, uh, he came up with one of the greatest, greatest sayings, "We're overbearing in victory and surly in defeat." And, um, I always loved that because, you know, yeah, it's really fun to go, "Yeah, yeah," you sit at the bar and you're like, "Yeah. Ah, yeah, we just kicked your ass," you know? And look around the room, "I beat you, I beat you, I beat you, I beat you." And, and maybe outwardly people go, "Oh, that guy is such a dick." But if you just came up and talked to me, which no- virtually nobody's ever done, like no... A couple of guys, like, "Hey, I don't know you, but I read your site and just wanted to talk to you." And then they walk away five minutes later going, "Shit, uh, why does everybody guy th- why does everybody think he's a dick? Like, he's a pretty good dude." And I am a good dude, but you know, I, I came into the sport with an attitude. I mean, who would've put the word sailing and anarchy together? Nobody ever. And very conservative sport, always reported, you know, buttoned down. Here's the report. Nobody telling the inside story. Nobody sharing the rumors. Nobody, nobody, nobody. Well, I said, "I'm gonna shake shit up here," and so we did. And, uh, and I believe that I've changed the face of how this sport is reported on, the, to inspire people to start their own things. And, uh, the sport's a little different that way. It's got a lot more coverage. There's still the good old boys club, of course. That's never gonna go away, and the pros have arguably, not the pros you have, uh, and I'm not blowing smoke. The, the pros, we know who they are. They've ruined the sport in so many different ways. And, um, but they're a, they're, they're what they are. It's just how do you work around that? How do you get the right guys to, you know, to come on board? And I think that's, that's a tall order. But you are a trailblazer, whether you know it or not, and you are the best of every world I can think of in terms of a, not necessarily just an owner, but a female owner. Like, if you were a dude, we'd be having the same conversations, you know? And, and um, and I mean, probably swear more, but otherwise it, it'd be the same. And so you are- So one of my favorite quarterbacks ever is a guy named Baker Mayfield. Just fucking love him. I've loved him since the first time he walked out at Oklahoma, and one of the things that the, that the teammates say about him is he's Baker May- Baker, Baker Mayfield's a dude. He's one of the dudes. He'll Some of these quarterbacks just come and they leave. Baker goes, "Yeah, let's go out and get some beers," you know? Uh, "Let's have dinner, let's..." You know, he's a dude, and players respect a dude, a guy who's the man. Baker's the man, but he's Like Tom Brady was the man, but, and I love Tom Brady, but he was never the, a dude. He wasn't a dude like, like Baker is. And you're a dude because you're the- Thank you you're the, you're the woman, you're the leader, you're everything. It doesn't exist without you, but you're a dude, and your guys love you for that. I'll just tell you that I know that. Aw, thank you. You're, you're welcome. You know, I have I'll, I'll give you one of my, a quote that I use all the time for myself, and I use it in my life, and I use it with the team, and it c- and it is, it's very confusing. Most people are very confused by it. I was once. But if you sink into it, you get it, and that is, "All things work together for good." True. True. Yeah. There's a greater good, right? And you can apply that here as well. And unfortunately so many facets of our government, our society, even sailboat racing, they, it's me, me, me, I, I, I, and fuck you. And, uh, there's a greater good to be, uh... And I think probably as I've, as I've aged a little bit, oh, let me, let me rephrase that. As I've aged a lot, I think I've taken a different perspective on all of that. Sure, I'm still fiery and I got that, I got that anarchist in me, but you can also take that anarchistic attitude and you can mellow it out with some experience and some, you know, thought. And I often operate without thought, and I still do for the most part, but you can do that, and you do that as an owner. You're operating with thought. You're operating- Yep with a, a larger picture in mind, not necessarily just for you, but, and not just necessarily for Ragtime, but like the fact that you're annoying all these sled owners, "Come out and race, come out and race," and you're not gonna really take no for an answer. I mean, and that's part of your, you know, that's your cha- part of your charm and, uh, you're awesome. I, I just, I can't- Thanks thank you enough for this, Tina. Oh my God, this is by far the longest podcast I've ever done. Well, you get to experience it yourself at Long Point. Don't disappoint me Scott, Scott, you'll, you'll, you'll race away with all the expectations plus more I, I know that. It was- I promise you if anybody's to do the letting down here, you know, I'm gonna be the one. So, um, I'm really looking forward to it. I know we'll continue our conversations, you know, off the record and all this kind of stuff, and you're just, you're just fa- You know, it's funny. Before I thought of asking you to do a podcast, I said, "Ah, I think I'll do an interview with, with Tina," you know, like where I typically will send out email questions. I go, "No. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, no, no, let's have a convo." And we did that, and, um, it's really great. You kicked ass, and, uh, I'm your fan boy. Are you sure that you're... Are you really into your fiance that much? I mean, like, I wanna talk to you about that. I'm kidding. I'm so, I'm so kidding. I've been asked that a few times. Oh. But thank you very much. Oh, I've seen your pictures. I have no doubt that that's true. Well, listen, fabulous. I just... God damn, I gotta thank you for this. So great. And, um, we will talk soon, my friend. That's awesome. Thank you. I had a wonderful time today, and I can't wait to tell you more in person. I can't wait either. Well, I'll talk to you soon, Tina. Awesome. Thanks, Scott. Thanks so much. Bye-bye. Now, how was that? How was that, huh? They call me the Howard Stern of, of interviewers. No, they don't. The only thing people say about me in regards to Howard Stern is, "Goddamn, you're obnoxious." But of course, the truth is if you're an actual Howard Stern listener, you know that he's not. Uh, I just play one on my website. I just, again, cannot thank her enough. I just think that was so great. She is perhaps like no other female, uh, owner in the sport. I know there's, you know, there's a couple high flyers out there with Deep Blue and a couple others. I doubt you'll find anybody, uh, like Tina Roberts. So listen, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening. For Rule 69, I'm Scott Tempesta. See ya.