Ben and James Could Do Better: Two Teachers, No Idea
Ben and James Could Do Better is a comedy podcast for secondary school teachers—recorded somewhere between the staff room, a lukewarm coffee, and a rapidly disappearing biscuit.
If you’re searching for a secondary education podcast that actually reflects life in a UK classroom, you’re in the right place. Less phonics and glitter, more behaviour management, GCSE pressure, and the reality of teaching teenagers.
With fifty years of combined experience in secondary schools, Ben and James have seen it all—from Progress 8 panic to the chaos of Year 9 on a Friday afternoon. This is the honest, funny take on teaching in the UK, packed with the kind of staff room conversations teachers don’t usually get time to have.
Whether you’re an experienced teacher, an ECT navigating your first placement, or just curious about the state of modern education, there’s something here for you.
No laminated posters. No inspirational assemblies. No budget.
Just real talk about teacher life, workload, behaviour, and surviving the school week.
We all went to school.
Ben and James just never left.
Ben and James Could Do Better: Two Teachers, No Idea
The Lolly Stick Lottery Nobody Wants To Win
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
That first bite of a "healthy" ice lolly can tell you everything you need to know. We try a supposedly premium fruit lolly that somehow tastes more like frozen sweetener than fruit, before rescuing the mood with a proper classic: the Fab. From the chocolate coating to the hundreds and thousands, we get surprisingly forensic about texture, flavour, and why some frozen treats still feel like instant summer.
The nostalgia doesn't stop there. We revisit childhood favourites including Funny Feet, Mini Milk, and Screwballs, along with the questionable joy of finding bubblegum where ice cream ought to be. Along the way, we remember corner-shop culture, penny sweets, and the treats that definitely wouldn't make it onto a school trip today. If you enjoy conversations about budget supermarkets, Aldi ice creams, and whether value can beat brand, you'll feel right at home.
Then, inevitably, we swerve into education. "Lolly stick anxiety" sounds silly until you think about what it feels like when your name might be pulled to answer a question. We talk about fairness, SEND realities, and how seemingly small classroom routines can create genuine stress when pupils don't feel safe.
We also confess to our football ignorance, unpack the social pressure surrounding the World Cup, and finish by reading some of the increasingly grand marketing emails that arrive once you've released a few podcast episodes. Expect SEO sales pitches, AI literacy platforms, and guest requests from people who have clearly never listened to the show.
If you enjoy funny, honest conversations about teaching, childhood nostalgia, and the everyday systems that shape how we feel, hit subscribe, share the episode with a mate, and leave us a review.
We want to hear from you: What's the ice lolly that takes you straight back?
Email: bandjcdb@gmail.com
Website: benandjamescoulddobetter.com
Sweetener Lolly Disaster And A Fab
SPEAKER_00Now this I had the misfortune of buying the other day. This is masquerading as a two thousand and twenty-six ice lolly. Right. Okay. This is called a little jude food lolly.
SPEAKER_01A little jude.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I just want you to break the end off that and I just want you to tell me what you what you think of that. That to me tastes like frozen sweetener.
SPEAKER_01Don't you think? Definitely. Pretty awful, isn't it? That that is by the uh dude ice cream makers.
SPEAKER_00They do do a nice ice cream. They do do a nice ice cream, they don't do a nice lolly. So I can't have you disappointed like that. No, so what have you got?
SPEAKER_01You got a fab.
SPEAKER_00I've got a fab.
SPEAKER_01I like a fab. Uh my daughter likes a fab.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. No, I I haven't had a fab. I saw these in the shop and I thought. Ooh, that reminds me. Takes me back a bit. The old fab.
SPEAKER_01The old fab. Now I was uh I stopped over on the way, so I've got a bag of stuff out here. Oh, have you? This I don't know what to do with it now. I've left a Yeah, I think little dudes can uh I um Maybe we should dig into the fab shortly. We should. I popped into Audi on my way over just in honour of last week's episode. No, I I I almost went for the Retro Ice Lollies too.
SPEAKER_02Hmm.
SPEAKER_01Um I wasn't gonna go for a f that was well it wouldn't have been a fab because they've got their own version. And I forget the name of that, but they do do that. Come on, you should have got that. Well, I didn't know you were gonna get fabs out of the I I nearly got us fiestas.
SPEAKER_00Hmm.
SPEAKER_01What's that? A feast.
SPEAKER_00I'm glad you didn't.
SPEAKER_01Uh uh, I'm glad I'm glad I didn't too.
SPEAKER_00I don't like them. I don't like anything chocolate when it comes to an iceboard. So you although I know this is cost.
SPEAKER_01So you're not interested in the Titan ice cream then? Um of course I am. I mean, they literally we did we did mention them as being very much like the Mars ice cream. You don't have to. No, no. Um you might think that's yeah. You might be more interested in the in the original Titan bar, which we've got.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um if you prefer something a bit more nutty, I've got some racers. Now, the racer, obviously, we didn't mention that in a previous episode. No. That's the Audi Snickers. And you might be thinking, well, why is it called Racer? Well, I don't absolutely know why any of them are called what they're called. What's Snickers anyway? Well, I don't know why it's called Snickers. I mean, that's the American. It's just stupid. But cast your mind back. What did Snickers used to be called in the UK? Marathon. Marathon. Ah! And you've got to admire Aldi's nostalgia uh trick there. Racer. Uh I know you you tend to miss breakfast quite often, so I've got you some Chris Price bars as well. Just for you, you know. Wonder what they're ripping off. Chris Rice. Uh, very nice. And uh, because it's um although this is going out on Monday morning, uh, it's Saturday night as we're doing this, so uh I thought. Go keep yourselves aware. Red Thunder. I don't know if I'll be able to stomach this, but it'd be I mean this. Later on. Well, yes, because you said it made you sick. Yeah, so we'll find out live on it. Let's see if I can manage. Let's see if you a red thunder. Alright, so we've got a lot of ice creams in this uh in this room that potentially are all gonna melt. So um I do think you should dig into the fab. Yeah, I think I'm gonna I'm I'm happy to go here, so um the weather's not as warm as it has been. No. But it's but I don't care.
SPEAKER_00No, I mean I might show an ice on it. So just maybe I mean this is this is an audio at the moment. We're gonna talk about perhaps we might change that. Yeah, but this is audio, so we need you to do a bit of a jelly goulden with this if you don't mind. Your listener can feel it.
SPEAKER_01And you can really taste those sprinkles. Hundreds and thousands, they're called, aren't they? Is it the texture? It's the texture in the and it's quite a cheap chocolate, actually, isn't it? I'd never really appreciated what it's not. I I imagine that's not even chocolate. Can't get rid of the taste of sweetener to go. I I imagine that brown coating on the on the fab probably doesn't meet the classification for chocolate anymore. It's probably chocolate flavoured, isn't it? I think. It's the whole experience, isn't it, of unwrapping it. I mean, obviously they're smaller than they used to be. Yeah. Yeah, now does it say chocolate? Biting in. I don't like chocolate on an ice lolly, but this works. Milky, chocky, fruit strawberry, like with sprinkles on top. Yeah, it's that works, doesn't it? It always did. It always did. The classic. I'm very satisfying. But um it took me back a little bit and I thought, do you remember the funny feet? I do remember the funny feet. Yeah, I liked a funny feet, funny foot. But there was weird that we were eating a foot even in those days. Yeah, yeah, but it was uh I imagine again something that would be immensely disappointing were it to be. I think if it was brought back, I think we blew it off stage. Yeah, yeah. Well, you liked the look of it. Yeah, the look of it was nice. I think Aldi, and again, going back to Aldi, I think they do a a pepper pig. Pepper pig's foot? No, it's it's a pepper pig shaped. No, but um it's a pepper pig shaped lolly, but I think it's of it's of the of the ilk of what the funny feet were. Sort of a milk not it's not ice cream, is it? It's a sort of milk-based frozen treat. Yeah. Milk-based frozen treat. Like that's like larger than the mini milk. Ah, the mini milk I was gonna come on to. But I think of a similar family.
SPEAKER_00I really don't want to interrupt you today because I'm very conscious of it since you've talked
Lolly Stick Anxiety And Classroom Picking
SPEAKER_00about it. But what I always worry about, and it is a level of worry that is higher than it should be. Anxiety than it. Um Do you get lolly stick anxiety for when you're gonna go through towards the end? No, no, to where when you're gonna whether you're gonna bite it.
SPEAKER_01Oh right, yeah, because I suppose yeah, where does it where does it Yeah? I don't, I've never had that problem, but I can see where it would come from. I can see that is a problem. I mean I do but that that brings us on to something touching on education, I potentially, which is a rarity these days. But I think lollystick anxiety might be very real for those poor children who have the names written on lollysticks.
SPEAKER_00Oh goodness me, yeah, the lollystick exercises, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It is something Can you explain that to me? So the idea but I do understand it. I do I don't it's oft suggested and it's I don't get it. No, it's not a new thing either, is it? I think that's the lollysticks have been around as long as I've been in in education, and I imagine they were probably quite established even before I did my PGC. And the idea being that every child's name in the class is written on a lollystick, so that you don't always have the same kids being picked for questions. So it's not all the ones that sit their hands up, but equally so that the kids that you are picking on don't feel picked on because it's a sort of a random generator.
SPEAKER_00Well, it sounds like a good idea, but the computer does it for you.
SPEAKER_01Well well, yeah, the computer does it for you these days anyway. And also Also, I teach 650 students. That's a lot of lollys. That's a lot of lollys. But also from a sort of send perspective, and I don't like to bring the send perspective too often to the podcast because obviously that's the day job, but then this is supposed to be a reflection of the day job. We've sort of marketed it as such, yeah. Although ignored it most of the time. But I I think that lollysti anxiety is a real thing for some children because they don't want their name picked out, and they genuinely, although the odds are that they probably won't get picked out that often, because there's maybe you know what, sort of 26 children in the class, really. The odds are probably in their favour of not getting picked out that often. But for some children, that anxiety is their whatever, you know. Plenty of kids don't care if their name gets picked out, but some kids will actually fear their name getting picked out, and it's all very well teachers going, Well, look, I know some students don't like that, so I I take their lolly, I take their names out, so they're not gonna get picked. But that that child has to know that, don't they? They have to know that their name is.
SPEAKER_00Otherwise, they'll still get the anxiety.
SPEAKER_01Otherwise, they'll still get the anxiety, and I don't think teachers always understand that. In fact, it will increase the anxiety because they'll think, well, I didn't get it last time. Yeah, I'm bound to get it this time. Statistically, it could be it's like the lottery, it could be me, only it's the lottery I don't want to win.
SPEAKER_00So But I'll this if anything is a marker of how things change. We've we've got to lolly stick anxiety. Yeah. But where we were a couple of decades ago as we were growing up, was manufacturers and indeed parents were only too happy to give us a cider quencher, if you remember. Do you ever remember the cider quencher?
SPEAKER_01You're gonna have to ice lolly. Oh, a lolly made of cider? Yeah, yeah, for kids. That's of cider. Yeah, yeah. Well, it was cider flavoured, so I I oh yeah, yeah. But the whole the whole idea of that when you think about it. It does encourage the a taste for cider, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And not only that, there was the brandy Alexander as well. The cider Grencher, I definitely remember. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But I don't remember as much the Brandy Alexander, I will be honest with you. I do remember getting like the 10p bag of sweets from the the local corner shop. Tony's ours was called Tony's. I mean the guy was called Tony. I don't think the shop was called Tony, but we all knew it was Tony's.
SPEAKER_00No, we had Grappettis.
SPEAKER_01That was in Cardiff, though. Yeah, it was Grappettis. In Penkoy's, where I'm from, uh Tony's. Tony's uh it may still be there. It won't be Tony running anymore. He's although Tony did sell it to another man called Tony, so it was Tony's. How convenient. It was Tony's for longer than it should have been. So we used to go to Tony's for the 10p sweets, right? And I remember that in Tony's you could buy like fake cigarettes, like edible cigarettes. They were chocolate and they weren't because you could get those little candy sticks, which we used to pretend were cigarettes, we used to pretend to smoke, but they were actually Oh yeah, I used to love those. But there were also ones with like chocolate tobacco with sort of edible paper on it. That's right, yeah. I used to love those as well. We all used to walk around pretending to smoke bags. I did as well. I did as well. As an actual sort of status symbol. Look at me, I'm smoking mummy.
SPEAKER_00Mummy forgotten those. Because the the white ones that didn't have those bits were banana flavoured. They were like a banana flavour, though those those just the white ones on their own. Okay. But the other ones were chocolate, weren't they?
SPEAKER_01With the paper in them, but it didn't taste of paper, even though even it was edible paper, it absolutely tasted like I mean they marked it as edible paper, but was it just not paper? Perhaps it was just paper. It was just it was just Rizzlers. It's a wonder we can't sue them, isn't it? Really?
Cider Quenchers And Childhood Sweet Shops
SPEAKER_00Uh again, back to school, they really didn't like the fact that Tony Bell used to park his ice cream van near the school gate.
SPEAKER_01We all thought in my school, I don't know if we all thought it, or if somebody was the older kids convinced us of this, but it was we all we all believed for a long time that that van was driven by a man called Tony Bell. And to such an extent was that uh established law that actually it was only when I started seeing Tony Bell fans in Reading that I realised you know, as an adult, as a full-grown adult. I mean, I hadn't given it much thought in the intervening years, but probably was as recently as sort of the last ten years.
SPEAKER_00I think we called him Tony as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Tony Bell. They can't all have been called Tony. They weren't all called Tony. Tony in the shop. Yes, yes, who who sold sold it to Tony. Yeah, and Tony broke the ice cream van, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Tony, who presumably gave it to his son Tony as well afterwards.
SPEAKER_01But presumably, and there's a whole world of Tony's out there.
SPEAKER_00But what would make me laugh was he tried to put on an Italian accent as he was going, uh you you want other sauce? And then it would slip into the cardiff. Oh I didn't mate as he was as he was putting it as he was putting it on. Uh yeah, but I used to get I used to look forward to getting a screwball.
SPEAKER_01Oh, we all I had a screw ball the other day, actually. Did you? Yeah, yeah. Did he still have the two or was it just a one? Just the one ball of bowl. Yeah, it was strange. We were ball of gum at the bottom of the ice cream. It's it's odd, isn't it? And of all places, it was in Henley that I got. You had a screw ball. I had a screwball in Henley, in Henley on Thames. I can't see that they'd have allowed a screw ball. No, they because we were well, my family came to visit. Uh it was pro pre pre the Golden Wedding, uh, which I mentioned a couple of weeks back. But a few weeks before that, we were my parents had uh it was a good story, but it wasn't worth it's not worth doing again. No, no, no. This this precedes this precedes the Sense Parks Golden Golden Wedding uh get together. My parents uh I I mean I've I've mentioned no, I don't think I've mentioned it on here, but my parents you uh they they they frequently holiday in a camper van, they've sort of adopted the campervan lifestyle over the last few years. Yeah. And they've they regularly drive the campervan to Henley, which is quite near Reading, but it's not it's not in Reading. No. And and they and and they wouldn't sell it as visiting me, but I think that is that's them visiting me. So I have to drive the kids over to Henley. But my sister came to stay in the in the same uh she's got a caravan. That's why I was in Henley on Thames. Yes, it's because they came to visit. Yeah, um, and then we were out sort of just in uh by by the river and there was a there was an ice cream van, and my sister suggested Can I try a Titan? You can try a Titan, yeah. My sister suggested getting ice cream for the kids. Yeah. And they said, Oh, I think I'll have a screwball. And I said, Well, if you're having a screwball, I'm having a screwball. And it was really nice until the bubblegum. Yeah. Which is disgusting. It's disgusting. What colour is it? A blue one. Sort of purpley blue, yeah. Um and then it's a sort of minty. It doesn't go with the ice cream when you do that. It doesn't go with the sauce. Ice cream and bubblegum. I'm not I'm not sure. And I never liked a bubblegum flavoured ice cream. I didn't like it when I was a kid and I didn't like it now. Well, I think why I opted for the screwball as a child was I'd rather suffer the bubblegum than the comb.
Screwballs Then And Now
SPEAKER_01I want to see if this really tastes like a marks.
SPEAKER_00Because I'm I'm taking that out and I'm getting a little bit of the quicksave experience here.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, it is. It does look budget.
SPEAKER_00Look, I mean that that looks look, they've they've done okay with the box. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01They've done okay with the box. The dairy. The dairy fine. Now, dairy fine is the budget chocolate of Aldi. It's not chocolate. Right. So there might is there a but there's not a chocker titan, is there? No, no. Titan. Let's just Titan's in the dairy fine range. Uh so this reminds me.
SPEAKER_00This reminds me again of another awful experience. When my dad would venture out to the freezer. Right. Now, the ice obviously I told you about the the sliced up chocolate bar. That was a Saturday night. It was very specific. Didn't happen on a Friday, and it certainly isn't happening on a Sunday. And there wouldn't be anything left over.
SPEAKER_01No, what were they called again? That was their name. You gave us the name the Saturday.
SPEAKER_00Saturday nighters.
SPEAKER_01Saturday nighters, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they were. And I always, it always had to be accompanied by Bruce Forsyth on one of his many shows. When it came to the ice cream, which might be a Sunday.
SPEAKER_01Not not a Sunday ice cream.
SPEAKER_00It would ice cream. Well, I didn't want either of the experiences that were going to come out of that freezer. What were one was the brick of yellow Cornish ice cream. There was nothing cornish about it. It was frozen sugar.
SPEAKER_01It had to be sliced, didn't it? Sliced. Sliced ice cream, yes.
SPEAKER_00Now I wouldn't I would have tolerated that if there was a nice wafer and some something to go. No, no. It was just thinly sliced and placed in a bowl. By which time it was handed to you, it would have partially melted. It was awful. Or you could have something that looked like this, but I hope this doesn't taste much like that.
SPEAKER_01A chalk ice.
SPEAKER_00A chalk ice. Now the ones that had the white ice cream I I didn't mind so much. That felt like a sort of luxury moment. But again, when I broke into the it wasn't even a it was it was almost as if they painted the ice cream rather than a chocolate covering. And it was yellow again.
SPEAKER_01I thought, God, it's the return of that Cornish ice cream. It's now inside. I think they used to give us that in my primary school. Not every day, it was a sort of probably a Friday trip. Enforced fed. And uh we all thought it was good, man. The um because the sauce um I don't like this wrapper. Do you you know I I used to like chocolate sauce on my ice cream and you know, something like strawberry sauce. Um well we can tell that's been in the car. Yeah, is it a bit more melted than it's like um in fairness?
SPEAKER_00This is not down to Aldi. No, this isn't Aldi's fault. This this is I I'm I'm gonna refuse to let them take the hit for this. But what we've got on our hands at the moment, or on our tongues, I should say, the exterior's held up quite well. The interior has reduced in volume. There's a gap between it's not probably not a fair assessment of what the but my gosh, if I'd been given that as a child, I'd have thought I was in seven heaven.
SPEAKER_01I think it holds up well compared to the Mars ice cream I do.
SPEAKER_00I think you if you know I think if that was actually ice cream instead of instead of what it's turned into, like a latte.
SPEAKER_01I could drink it. Then yeah, yeah, so I suppose well done, LD, on that. How how much are they? They're probably good value, are they? I didn't check the price, but yeah, they were they they were they weren't expensive. Yeah, so the ice cream I used to have in primary school. At home, the ch the sauce, the sweet sauce you'd have on a sort of chocolate or strawberry, it was usually the maybe raspberry, was quite sort of a thick sauce. And uh then the stuff we had in school was was was very much liquid. This sort of red liquid they used to pour on the ice cream.
SPEAKER_00The absolute treat used to be, and I don't know whether it when it was when John's perhaps annual bonus came in, we'd get a bottle of ice magic. It was this I thought it was wonderful back in the day, but now I'd I'd probably vomit if I had it. But it was you'd squeezed it onto the Cornish ice cream, and it would chocolate and it would solidify as it hit the the ice cream, creating like a hard chocolate sauce.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. But it was mint flavoured. I remember that. And the last thing you wanted with that Cornish ice cream was mint. Hard mint. Yes. I do remember that. Ice magic. Ice magic, that's what it was called. Yeah, because it was But it wasn't ice. No, it was chocolate.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It was a stupid name for it, wasn't it? So much so that I'd forgotten the name. But I do remember the product. Yeah, we used to have yeah, we used to have that too. Yeah. Funny that it's died out. I used to get quite excited by it actually, because it was sort of magic the way it would to my small child
Welcome Back And The Postcard Corner
SPEAKER_01brain. Right, so should we get on with the show? Yeah, I think it's probably about time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Absolutely. Well, that time is quite elastic, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01But uh it can be. It often feels that way. Um so uh welcome to Ben and James Could Do Better. And it's still clear that we absolutely could.
SPEAKER_00I think it is. So I think it's probably time for the register. Well, I'm certainly present. Let's see if we've got a JJ Burk.
SPEAKER_01Evet Buradim. What language was that? That, uh, and forgive my pronunciation, uh, if there's anyone listening from this part of the world, that was Turkish. Avet Buradem. Avet Buradem. Yes, I'm here in Turkish in honour of uh Margaret Slade's favourite confectionery. Ah, the Turkish delight, yes, of course. How could I Well I didn't forget. You didn't forget? No, but you just didn't make the link that I've just made.
SPEAKER_00No, I didn't make the link, but and then you reminded me, and then you made me feel like I'd forgotten my own mother's favourite chocolate bar. Yeah. Um have we got um some sort of postcard here?
SPEAKER_01Well, I've got a selection, um, and we you you know, uh they they go on the blog now, so it's worth spending a little bit of time. Okay. Um I've resigned myself to it anyway. Well, actually, um the the thing the confectionery you started out with, the You haven't resigned, by the way. No, don't resign. Because me on my own would be unpalatable for most people. Uh, even the person that thought I was surprisingly funny on this, which I'm over. I'm over that. Uh right, so the lolly that you introduced, the um what was it again? Jude's the Jude. The Jude foraging around in the rubbish.
SPEAKER_00So it's the Little Jude's fruit lolly. Um, there might be some people out there who are addicted to sweeteners who will love that, but for me, well, no wasn't sweet enough.
SPEAKER_01The little jude's fruit lolly, though, was I was gonna say it's a poor man's rocket lolly, but of course it's a rich man's rocket lolly because it's clearly much more expensive than a rocket lolly would be. But in honour of that, I've got a postcard with a picture of a rocket on that says uh fly me to the moon. Yeah, it's a lovely design, that one. And it's and timely actually, because again, last week uh we talked about the uh well, well actually referencing these uh confectioneries like some results of the Titan bars, and I referred to Titan as a moon around Jupiter, and it's not, it's a moon of Saturn, and Saturn is pictured on this postcard. The the the rocket that's flying to the moon seems to be going past Saturn. So it's not going to our moon. No, but it could be going to Button Moon, couldn't it? Or Titan, which is a moon of Saturn. But Button Moon, brilliant, brilliant reference there to uh 1980s nostalgia.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you know, it's going up into blanket sky, I seem to remember.
SPEAKER_01Blanket sky, yes.
SPEAKER_00And it was hot footing it after Mr. Spoon, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_01I mean, uh your knowledge of Button Moon is more advanced than mine.
SPEAKER_00I used to enjoy a bit of Button Moon.
SPEAKER_01I uh more of a Bagpus fan.
SPEAKER_00No, I loved a bit of Bagpus. Bagpus, I was yeah, we're gonna be careful.
SPEAKER_01It's the same biscuit.
SPEAKER_00Careful with that in the edit.
SPEAKER_01It was the same biscuit in Bagpus, wasn't it? It was the same biscuit. Yes, it was. It was the same biscuit. So what have you been up to this
Admitting We Know Nothing About Football
SPEAKER_01week? Well, now, interest in truth, not a lot, but I'm conscious that we're recording this in advance. So by the time this airs, I'm assuming I'll have watched quite a lot of football because it's the World Cup. It's not now the World Cup. World Cup as we're recording this. Yes. But it will be. The time this goes out, the World Cup would have been going on for like a week or even possibly two weeks.
SPEAKER_00I'm so glad you mentioned this. Because I've been harbouring some some real issues for decades now. Right. And as a man, I I you know, we hear all this stuff about we need to share things more. I'm confessing to knowing absolutely nothing about football whatsoever.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's okay, Ben.
SPEAKER_00I don't think it is though. And it certainly wasn't growing up in Wales.
SPEAKER_01It wasn't okay. Which is strange because everyone always associates Wales as being a sort of a rugby country. Yes, true, but any sport, really. Any sport, and actually, you know, growing up in South Wales, as you did, I actually know full well that most of the kids I went to school with like football more than rugby.
SPEAKER_00Um sort of But I can't tell you the number of times I've zoned out of conversations mentally because I've got nothing to give. Uh with a crowd of lads on a night out, you know, oh so who do you support? And and I'd say things like thinking, oh well I live in Cardiff City or Cardiff City.
SPEAKER_01And then they'd ask you about Cardiff City. And then I don't have a clue what uh what they were saying. Here's the secret.
SPEAKER_00I didn't understand why people don't support their home team. Well why would you be a Manchester?
SPEAKER_01I'm not casting a shade. I think that's uh throwing shade throwing shade. That's right, I don't understand. Not not as shade, just throwing shade.
SPEAKER_00Clearly, I don't clearly I don't understand uh modern colloquial terms either, but how the youth speak, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh do you know I'm pleased about that?
SPEAKER_00What why don't why would you support Manchester United?
SPEAKER_01You probably haven't even been there somewhere. Well, no, I do know a bit about this. Right. So I can perhaps. A lecture me, Cleve. Because I was in your position once. Were you? I didn't like football growing up. I wasn't a big fan of football. I'm just I'm just gonna vend us a drink and I want you to tell me what you think about it. But I am listening to what you're saying. That's okay. Well, you know, it's pretty distracting. Um it's almost as if you've almost as though I I'm not interested.
SPEAKER_00You've handed me the mic, asked me to talk, and then proceeded to just absolutely not listen, which is But if you've ever been interviewed on live television, which I have, that's exactly what they do. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Um ask you a question and then look away and start doing something else. So so I'm not that into or I I am quite into football now, but not as into it as the men you speak of, right? And I wasn't as a kid, and and the main sorry, the main reason I wasn't into football as a child is because I was just terrible at it. I was really bad at football, really bad at all sports, really. Same here. Yeah. Uh what's this the uh the old dyspraxia that we both have, isn't it? That we've uh so I didn't really like it, but I kind of got into the 1990 World Cup in quite a big way. Uh England got to the semi-finals. Now, interesting, you grew up in Wales, growing up in Wales, there you there's two schools of thoughts. He didn't being Welsh, you wouldn't support England England. Um my parents are English anyway, so I sort of had that. Um well my dad's in you know, born in India, but grew up in Hounslow. Did he put the knotted handkerchief on? No, he didn't, he wasn't interested in the knotted handkerchief. No, the knotted handkerchiefs were used in the watching of the football. Good. He'd drink a skull, he'd have he'd pour a skull, he'd pour a can of skull into a glass and he'd watch the football. And uh my mum, my mum, who claims to be really into football, big Leicester City fan, she says, but I don't think she's actually watched a uh a game of football for for decades, in truth. But she used to go and watch the Leicester City play when she was a a younger, a youngster. So she claims to be more of a football fan than any of us, although I don't think we think she is. We used to watch that we and we all as a family we kind of watched the 99 uh World Cup together. So I kind of got into it then because that was quite exciting. England got to the semi-finals and it was uh fairly in Wales, as I say, it's two schools of thought, you either support Wales support England or you anti-support England, because Wales were never there until more recent years when Wales have been there, but in in those days, Wales weren't there, so you tended to either be a fan of England or a a fan of anyone who was playing in England, but you could still get into it. And I I supported England and and the 1990 World Cup was quite a bit, you know, the semi-finals was quite quite sort of dramatic. Lost to lost on penalties to West Germany who went on to win the tournament. So that was kind of an iconic time to be and the and and the kits sort of still kind of.
SPEAKER_00I mean you you've lost me already, but yeah, do you carry on? I can feel the passion.
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean I'm trying to try to help you understand. Well, I'm pleased. But there's a there's a thing of like getting into the sort of the World Cup. Uh, people who don't all ordinarily watch football will often gather in crowds in pubs or in uh you know around each other's houses and watch the World Cup. That's kind of a thing to do. I didn't really like club football in any kind of meaningful idea in your Manchester United's your Liverpool's. Yeah. Yeah not even your Cardiff Cities. Um I think I pretended for a while to support uh Tottenham Hotspur, but uh I'm just gonna hand you that. I want you to give me uh um This isn't this is this brown liquid looks like it could be Coca-Cola, but I don't believe it is because I'm having difficulty placing that. I'd say I'm gonna say Dr. Bright, no. It's not Dr. Bright, no. That is apparently a cola. That's a cola. Right. I'd I mean it doesn't taste that one, does it? I've gone to an image. That's co-op's own. That's co-op's own. So probably probably not even that cheap then. Uh no, it wasn't that cheap, and it's not not that good either. No, that's uh I mean it's it's uh yeah, probably gone to the uh Red Thunder fairly soon, though. Yeah, yeah, I want to see if you're gonna throw up. So I didn't really support um club football in any meaningful way until I got a job in a 24-hour garage. And you might think, well, what's the link there? Selling ginsters, yeah. Selling ginsters pasties, amongst other things. Yeah, so it was a 24-hour garage. We sold some petrol, but it was the one on Cathedral Road in Cardiff at the bottom of Cathedral Road. You might have to. Oh, it up near the Archbishop Souls, is it? You've probably used that yourself many times for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I worked there for uh a good couple of years, I think. I worked there. I was a I was a supervisor. I got promoted to supervisor. But they didn't give you a tie for that job. Didn't give me a tie for that, and actually supervisor. Supervisor of what? There was like maximum of two staff on in any shift, and often you were on your own. So I was either supervising myself or myself on one other person. But what would happen when I was on these really long, boring shifts? Because they it was pretty dull. A lot of the time you're just standing behind a counter, you couldn't go anywhere, because every time you tried to go and do anything like stock the shells, somebody'd come out a customer would come in. So you just would end up being stood behind the counter, but the but the there weren't there were long periods of time where there were no customers, and the only thing to read was the South Wales Echo.
SPEAKER_00Oh yes, I remember that very well.
SPEAKER_01So I used to read the South Wales Echo uh every day on my shifts, and I'd read the sports pages because I'd read the whole thing cover to cover. And so I'd just do. And suddenly Well, you mean there was no facing up duties?
SPEAKER_00Showing my boots background, aren't I?
SPEAKER_01Ben, could you face up please down on um personal care and hygiene? Face up. Oh well, yeah, there would have been all of that stuff to do, but it was make sure your gondola ends were all, you know, as they should be. Um but again, I uh the difference being I suppose less concern in the petrol garrison. Well, also there was no one there to tell me to do that. No, so you didn't do anything. So I even that you're life, isn't it? Even as a supervisor, I wasn't that inclined to to do it. Um yeah, there was a bit you know, if there was two of us on, one of us would be doing that, but it in the the day shifts tended to have two people on, the night shifts and the evening shifts tended to be one person, and I was often on the on the on the evening or the night shift. So I'd read the South Wales Echo, and uh I'd read the sports pages, and so I'd read a lot about Cardiff City. Right. Because they they'd write a lot about Cardiff City.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01So that era I suppose it makes sense.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it's the capital city of Wales and it was the South Wales Echo.
SPEAKER_01So between 1998 and sort of 2000, the millennium, I knew It'd be odd if they were writing about West Bromwich Albion. It would be odd, yeah. But between for that era, that two-year period, yeah, I knew everything there was to know about Cardiff City. I knew all the players' names, I knew all the results. Right. But I didn't really care that much. But then what I'd find is I'd be like out in a bar, and you know, sometimes in some quite rough part because I lived in that part of Cardiff as well. I'd lived in um Canton. Canton, yeah, down a Canton, innit? I lived in Canton. Canton, innit? And I lived in Canton. And that was um because you had sort of Catees, Canton, Roth, or on that, you know, all around the sort of the same sort of area. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, but Cataz and Roth, they were kind of more student-y. Yeah. Canton, there were some students who went to the Ewick uh campus in uh Tlandaff. But our Canton up and coming now though, mate. I'm sure it is, because Chapter Arts Centre was there even then, but yeah, um but there were a few fairly rough pubs. You'd sometimes get talking to someone say, you know, do you see the match? And I hadn't seen the match, but I'd know the result, or say, you know, good result. Then I go, and I'd say something like, Yeah, about time in it. And now that's where I couldn't do it, you see. But I couldn't ordinarily have done that.
SPEAKER_00Because I was so disinterested. I it's nowhere I'd have read read those pages. But then I suppose if I was on a 12-hour shift selling Ginston's pasty at the rate of two an hour, I probably would have read it.
The Inbox Fills With Big Promises
SPEAKER_01So um I don't actually have a list uh this week.
SPEAKER_00So you you mean after the criticism of the non-format format? Yeah, yeah. We've gone and done it again.
SPEAKER_01Well, we have, but I have got something uh basically I left the list out because I've got some other And you're clutching a straws, yeah. No, I've got some important correspondence to share with you. Oh, okay. I wasn't expecting that. Because we uh I mean as the inbox has been all of a flurry, really. Has it? Uh Ben and James is is is generating some uh some some some quite significant emails coming in. Now I I did find them all in my junk mail.
SPEAKER_00So one was a bill from Buzz Sprout, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_01No, no, no. That we paid in advance for that, so we're all good. Okay. Um when the next bill comes around and we're uh this is all over. But uh I think we're good for a year, so we're we're fine. Uh but no, uh we've uh we've had a bit of traction, we've we've been making waves clearly, because my inbox uh four emails in total, although I accidentally deleted one of them, so I can't reference that one uh now. Right, four emails in total. That sounds like a dream, doesn't it, for most people. Well, these these are not from fans, these are from corporate entities interested in the podcast. Oh, we've got you know, you've got mail. We could be we could be hitting the big time soon, mate.
SPEAKER_00Fantastic. So one of them's from I presume from Spotify, is it?
SPEAKER_01No, no, they're not uh no, Spotify haven't. Louis Thorew got in touch. Uh I I these are some these are the big boys I'm talking about, but no, no, not Louis. Okay. Right,
The Podcast Website Sales Pitch
SPEAKER_01let me just read. So one of them I accidentally deleted, and I feel terrible about that. So we're never gonna know what that was. Uh it was sort of an opportunity to get kind of lit link with guests. Was it somebody providing a service where we might be able to link in with guests and we were guest on other people's.
SPEAKER_00So we could have probably got Ricky Gervais on or something like that. Something like that, probably. But um yeah, I'm sure he'd have been keen.
SPEAKER_01So I'll um I'll look in to see if I can you know dig that one up again. The thing is, they're all getting filtered into my junk folder, so I need to look at the filters really. But let me show you the first one. Um I'll go in order or intro. So that we'll save the best till last, really. So uh this one. Hi there. Uh we noticed that Ben and James could do better. Colon two teachers no idea. Remember when I added that bit into the title. Yeah, yeah. But it's good that they've they've researched. Links to a podcast hosting platform, BuzzSprout, instead of a custom website. While hosting platforms are great for distribution, they don't give you a dedicated home for your podcast on the web. So yeah, they're they're worried about we've got the strategy wrong.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So so why does having a website matter? Search visibility, people search for podcasts on Google. A website helps them find yours. Right. But anyway, I'm not going to question these they know what they're talking about. They're going onto a website, are they? Uh not the 1990s. Look, uh let's give them that let's let's hear them out. Brand ownership. You control how your podcast is presented, not a third-party platform, like Buzz Sprout. Yeah, who's Spotify? Um, listener trust. Professional website signals credibility to new listeners. Because listeners are not going to trust a platform like Spotify, are they?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely not.
SPEAKER_01Or Apple Podcasts, right?
SPEAKER_00They're not gonna, I mean, Apple, it's just not a known brand. It's not an entity that people want to sort of in any way trust, is it? Let alone know, feel like they know.
SPEAKER_01Anyway, and it says we had our own website, I can see where they're coming from, yeah. Independence, um, platforms change their rules. Your website is yours forever. Ah well, this is a good idea, isn't it? So we could bypass all the other platforms and just put stuff up on our own website. Yeah. So Podview is a website builder designed specifically for podcasters. I mean, that's that's a brand that trips off the tongue, isn't it? Podview. Um it creates a beautiful SEO optimised website for your podcast feed, automatically updated with each new episode. Create your podcast website, best the podview team. Very personal, that one, doesn't it? The podview team. Well, it feels like it's from everyone who works there, which is great, isn't it? So uh probably a big team as well, I would have thought. Yeah, so that's nice. They've noticed us. They're um can I have a look at that? You you can, yeah, yeah, you can. Yeah, I do I'm not checking up on you.
SPEAKER_00I'm just making sure this is real. I don't want stunts for the podcast. No, you know, we're not into stunts, are we?
SPEAKER_01You know what I mean? I felt though, and if I'm gonna be cynical, and I don't want to be cynical, I felt that that one felt a little impersonal. But I've got another one here from that's that's signed off by an actual person. Right, okay. So I think we've I mean that's worth keeping this one. We'll keep the pod view. We'll keep the pod view one. I don't like so this one's a little bit longer.
SPEAKER_00Um we're gonna have to get a secretary if this goes on.
SPEAKER_01Sorry, this this one is this one's quite short, actually, but it's is
Top Five Percent Praise With A Catch
SPEAKER_01a personal. So so this so slightly factually incorrect in terms of when it came into the inbox because we were well at the time this came into the inbox, we were about nine episodes in, but it says hi. Looks like you're already seven episodes into Ben and James Could Do Better. Nice work. Well, that's great, but we were we were further ahead, and we're much further ahead now, but and we'll take the compliment, though. Nice work, you said.
SPEAKER_00Must have listened to them all, I presume.
SPEAKER_01So, how are you finding it so far? How are you feeling about the podcast at this stage? Is this a question? I I think it's sort of uh one of those rhetorical questions where he's just sort of saying Well, you know, he sounds really interesting. So how are you finding it?
SPEAKER_00He's obviously listened to the first seven. Yeah. We're not gonna begrudge him if he didn't listen till nine.
SPEAKER_01No, no. But then he's he's getting on to saying so he's he's quite quite friendly, isn't it? So that again? Uh so how are you finding it so far? Oh, very, very good, thank you. We've had a few little Yeah, how are you finding the podcast at this stage? Yeah, it's difficult recording late at night, but yeah. Well, yeah, that's that's true. I suppose he's gonna tell us how he can help with that, well he says uh at this point a lot of people begin getting a better sense of what's working and what's not. Gosh, we only we were only talking about that at the start, weren't we? We were, yeah, yeah. Uh he certainly switched on this guy. Who's it from? Uh well I'm going to that. Okay. I can't say it gets easy from this point, but for me, this was around the time where I began enjoying it much more. I mean, I think he's he's right on the nail there, isn't he? Definitely. Also, interesting point, if you make it to episode 10, brace yourself, right? If you make it to episode 10, you're already in the top five percent of podcasts worldwide. Wow. Well, we we're past episode 10. We're this we should never mind some cheap cola from we should have the shampoo's out. Yeah, we're we're on episode 12 as we as we record. This is episode 12 we're recording right now. So we're we're we're two past episode 10. We're in we're in the top five percent of podcasts worldwide. Wow! Woo! I think that deserves a sip from co-op poke if everyone, hang on a minute. Let's in fact, let's bang glasses. Yeah, look at that. Oh fantastic. Oh, but the work fellows would have picked up that moment there. Brilliant. So the same old cola. Anyway, so it's because he says, Oh, that's how much consistency tasted different though, somehow. Yeah, no, it's a yeah. You know what I mean? Um, so he says, that's how much consistency pays in podcasting. You're not that far away. Well, we're we're not, we've we're past it. We're past it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01So he says, um You've really motivated me this evening. Well, and his next slide he says, keep keep going. Right. Going.
SPEAKER_00Right, yeah, well, that is that is good.
SPEAKER_01And his name is uh Guillermo Caroni.
SPEAKER_00Guillermo, hello Guillermo.
SPEAKER_01And he's the he's something to do with um Yeah. An organization called GoPod. There's no attempt to try and sell us anything there. No, he's just really wishing us well. Yeah. And he's got a PS. Right. He says, PS, if you're not in the GoPod community yet, I'm happy to send you an invite. GoPod. Isn't that the same? No, different people. Oh different people. That was vodPod, wasn't it? That's PodView. Yeah. He's part of GoPod, the GoPod community. Tell you what it made me think of was the quadvod. The quad vod of yes, uh the quad vod of vodcast. But he's he said if you're not in the GoPod community yet, happy to send you an invite. If you don't want a follow-up, just let me know. Well, if I don't want a follow-up, yeah, I'm not. We're not gonna let him know if we don't want a follow-up, we just won't get in touch, will we? I think that's the cleverness of what he's done there. I don't know though. I think he's No, he's spoiled it for me. He's secretly trying to sell us something, but he's pretended not to be the all of us. No, he's spoiled it for me. He's send that whole congratulation seeing we're in the top five percent of podcasts. I felt great. But look, we were blinking raising glasses and everything. And he's tricked us, he just wants us to join the GoPod community. Now I looked this up, actually, and the GoPod community he's talking about is just one of those website things that Podview are selling. So we're gonna Podview are gonna help us with our website. So GoPod have got nothing to offer. But I was slightly disappointed because Podview are helping us with a website, yes. We've made that clear.
SPEAKER_00Well I've just filed that here. We haven't got a secretary. I told you we're gonna have to get somebody to do that admin. I've got that that's here. What I will handle that.
SPEAKER_01What I would like you to do. Can I be the liaison point for Podview or GoPod? I don't mind. No, we've got to do one each. But could you, could you, before we move on to the next letter. Yeah, the final. Because I see you've got a computer in front of you. Yes. Um, could you look up GoPod? But don't look up GoPod with anything to do with podcasts. Just look up GoPod and see what you see. So just put Go GoPod.
SPEAKER_00Pod. Right, because that's what I do, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01That's what you would do naturally, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh, hang on a minute. What are they? MicroTura Caravans. And uh But I could get a pre-owned GoPod from them. GoPod MicroTura Campervans are caravans, sorry. They're uh they're near Car Cross on the A570, uh adjacent to CDG Automotive. And I'm I'm I'm not keen to advertise any more, but they do have two Google reviews.
SPEAKER_01No, that's great. But the um the sad thing is that Guillermo Corone has nothing to do with those GoPods. Oh I'd have been interested in those GoPods. Yes. But he's just selling sort of websites.
SPEAKER_00Guillermo, well, I I'm going down now, and I I've got a GoPod for sale on eBay, I've got GoPod Micro Tour of Vans, I've got a video of a GoPod microcaravan, I've got three Shires Leisure selling GoPod caravans.
SPEAKER_01I can't see the tragedy there is Where's Guillermo in that? He's lost. He has sold us the GoPod lifestyle, but it's the wrong GoPod lifestyle. He wants to get he wants to compete with Worldview. In the interest of fairness, shall we put PodView in and see if they come up? I don't think they'll be mini caravans.
SPEAKER_00Well, let's just see. Now that in fairness to them, does come up at the top of the list. Admittedly, you'd have to put PodView in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But that does come up at the top of the list. So I've just got to do that in the interest of fairness.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's fair. So so uh Do you want me to file that one then? That's that's this one, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right, we don't go putting it over there. We're not gonna know where anything is.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's not a visual medium yet. I know you want it to be, but it's not.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, but we're not gonna know where anything is, we've got to follow up on all of this.
SPEAKER_01Right, so
The AI Literacy Guest Offer
SPEAKER_01the last letter.
SPEAKER_00Right. Come on, there's only so much admin we can do in one. This is a long letter.
SPEAKER_01One sweet. This is a long letter. Right. But it's I'm pretty sure this should be read in an American accent, but I'm just gonna read it in my voice because.
SPEAKER_00That would spoil it a bit. Let's it would spoil it. They've written to us in the UK, they know where we are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they I don't know that they do. I don't know that I'm not sure that comes across. Right. But let me try. Hey there, Ben and James. I don't like it already. Thought that below would be a fit for Ben and James Could Do Better, colon two teachers, no idea. So they know the title. They know the title.
SPEAKER_00Do they know the full title? Yeah, it was great.
SPEAKER_01Again, I admire the commitment to these companies. Okay, listen to this. The bit in your recent episode about stale party rings, the Huntley and Palmer's tin, and judging a staff meeting by the biscuits felt painfully accurate.
SPEAKER_00You don't think they've employed the mayor, do you? I'm not sure we were going for painful accuracy. I think they've missed that a little bit. But anyway, painful accuracy.
SPEAKER_01It's from a guy called Justin. Right. Yeah. I'm quite sure that Justin listened to our show for real. And he did find it painfully accurate. Let's see what else he's got to say, shall we? So we go straight on from that. And he introduces somebody called Mark Angel.
SPEAKER_00Right. So Mark Angel There's two of them.
SPEAKER_01Mark Angel on this email. Well no, no, Justin's written the email, but he's He's referencing. He's representing Mark Angel. So this is quite big news for us, mate. Might expect them to know who Mark Angel is. Well, I tell you that Mark Angel Clearly I am.
SPEAKER_00He wasn't the one who was telling people to go see Costa for me.
SPEAKER_01No, it's not a cease and desist. Oh dear. Amira. It's an AI-powered literacy platform that acts as a one-on-one reading tutor for K-12 students. I don't know what a K-12 student is. Well, it's international for a start. I don't think it's UK based now. No, maybe it isn't. Anyway, Mark Angel, CEO of Amira Learning, which is that thing, has spent years thinking about what real accountability in education looks like. Right. And uh obviously inspired by our bit about party rings and honey.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's that's accountability right there, isn't it? One thing our podcast is about is holding the profession to account. Absolutely. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01So then there's a whole bit about Amira learning now. Um without wishing to I don't want to read that bit because it's it's not very interesting to me. No. Um but it's well, I mean, every every long email has bit feed out not interesting. Can we just cut to the chase of it? So we'll cut to it. So you say so a bit about what Amira Learning does. With school districts under increasing pressure to show results. Districts. Yes, districts, and a national, but not our national, but a national conversation around literacy showing no signs of slowing. Well, that is a worldwide conversation. Well, it's but it says national here, so it's not okay. Um it's not an international, it's very national.
SPEAKER_00So it's only an American thing.
SPEAKER_01But not our national, I don't think. Uh Mark has a grounded data back perspective on what it actually takes to move the needle for struggling readers.
SPEAKER_00Move the needle.
SPEAKER_01And what it means for a company to truly have skin in the game.
SPEAKER_00Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_01But here's the bit here, let's get to the the let's get to the the crux of the matter. He's available to speak. Oh. To Again, various things that are quite quite boring, but he's there's there's three bullet points, I can't read them. It's too long. It's too long. But how does he draw it to a close? If you're lining up upcoming episodes, and this is how this is these are his exact words, these are Justin's exact words. If you're lining up upcoming episodes, should we bookmark in to talk about what proper accountability looks like in classrooms and why teacher workload matters just as much as the tech? Justin Goldstein. If it's all the same, I think we'll pass. Um yeah, though I I would be You'd like to speak to him, would you? So I looked up Mark Angel before I came to the recording. Um let me just pop him in. He is a real person. A mirror learning's a real thing.
SPEAKER_00Mark Angel in here, no. Angel. I know a John Angel. And I know a Joe Angel.
SPEAKER_01But I don't know a Mark Angel. Well, Mark Angel, CEO of Amira Learning. He's a real person, and by all accounts, quite a big noise. Skip maker Mark Angel comedy. No, wrong person. Wrong one wrong one. I think he might put in Mark Angel, no, Mark Angel of uh CEO of Amira Learning's not 35. Or if he is, he's had a rough life. Mark Angel, Amira Learning, you want to put it in Amira and Mark Angel, Las Vegas. That's our man. Images. I'm gonna look at him.
SPEAKER_00There he is.
SPEAKER_01I've yes, yeah. No, so you know, he's a world.
SPEAKER_00I think we should book him in. Well, that's what I that's what it says there. That's the terminology.
SPEAKER_01No, it says, should we book Mark in to talk about now? Mark just wants to promote Amira Learning and what a great and literacy, you know, obviously he's he's big on and we're big on literacy. We we we talked about it uh a couple of weeks ago. We're very big on literacy, but we still haven't read Ghosty Costas by Tom Hanks. I bet I bet Mark has. But um, but I don't think he fully understands the logistics of our show.
Wrap Up And Goodbye
SPEAKER_01Right, well, that brings us to the end of another episode, and dare I say it, arguably the most exciting episode we've done to date.
SPEAKER_00So I just want to say um uh to our listeners, thank you for for being with us for another episode. We'll see them again at the same time next week. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.