029 From File Clerk to International Speaker with David Robinson

In this captivating episode of The Journals of the Information Entrepreneur, host Jacqueline Stockwell sits down with information management veteran David Robinson. David shares his remarkable journey from a junior file clerk to a renowned international speaker. This conversation is a must-listen for anyone in the information or records management space, as David emphasizes the transformative power of public speaking (even when it feels daunting!), the career-defining art of job crafting, and the essential skill of storytelling for audience engagement. Discover how leaning into your personal passions—like David's love for history—can unleash creativity and make traditionally "boring" topics, like RIMPA and information management, fun and memorable.

• 00:00 Introduction and Background

• 01:02 The Journey into Public Speaking

• 07:19 Job Crafting and Storytelling

• 11:32 The Impact of History on Information Management

• 15:23 Becoming an International Speaker

• 19:25 Connecting with Audiences and Final Thoughts

• Learn how over 40 years of experience informed David's approach to information management.

• Understand the importance of preparation and practice for overcoming fears associated with public speaking.

• Discover how job crafting can help you tailor your work for greater meaning.

• See how David's passion for history influences his work.

• Get insights into how to make records management fun and engaging.

• Hear a powerful reminder that investing in personal development is crucial for career growth.

Public Speaking, Job Crafting, Storytelling, International Speaker, Information Management, Personal Passions, Creativity, Audience Engagement, RIMPA, Conference

ChaptersTakeawaysKeywords

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hello, welcome to today's show. I'm Jacqueline Stockwell, CEO and founder at Leadership Through Data. I inspire and motivate information leaders across the world.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Hello and welcome to the show. I'm super excited. I am actually physically in Australia in Melbourne for the RIMPA conference. And I'm here with David Robbins, who's going to join the show today. What's more exciting is that we're sitting in the same room, so we're not on virtual screens. So, David, do you want to introduce yourself to the listeners today?

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Yeah, hi folks. I'm David Robinson, I'm coordinator of information management at the city of Greater Geelong. I've been there for around three years or so now. So yeah, in beautiful Victoria Southern State, mainly in Australia.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

And it's so lovely that I've been here four days now, and the sun's actually come out today. So they say go to Australia because it's going to be hot. It hasn't been here.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

And I I'm from Ballarat, so Ballarat generally for Victorians is seen as cold and more sort of similar to British weather, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

So David, tell me a little bit about you as a person.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Oh gosh, I ticked over 40 years working to uh this year's my gosh 985, kicked off off working, uh junior file clerk. Can you believe it? Back in 1985. Briefly worked at uh a hotel for two years, so very familiar with with hotels and interest, but yeah, um quite a seasoned experience. I am a person.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Quite a seasoned, and you say 1985, that's the year I was born.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Oh all right.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

There we go. Um so David, I today really want to talk about your journey into public speaking because you are now an international public speaker, and I've been working with you for a couple of years now just to kind of help you progress that. But one of the key things that I wanted to know for listeners is like, what made you think I need to focus on public speaking?

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Well, really, um Jackie, um I had an original idea that uh that I came with uh back in 2019. So I think that's what uh um excited me developing that and researching that, did a body of work, and I just thought, I became not natural presenting in publics, um but I've got to learn how. Uh and you did a magnificent course for RIMPA um here on how to prepare for public speaking. So I'm still using some of that advice.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Amazing. Amazing. And what was the scariest thing that you came across to stepping up to do that public speaking?

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Well, no, it was public speaking, it was probably the second on my list for scary things. Proposing to my Peruvian wife in Spanish in front of her family in Peru, that scared the bejeebas out of me. So public speaking, you know, with your tutorials, fine.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

I love that. I love that because there is a really big thing about public speaking. And people are I think there's some statistics out there that says that people would rather die before they do public speaking.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Um so I think it's uh one of those big things. Now, how did you so you talked about the scariness of it? Um, I can appreciate that that would have been scary for your wife in Spanish, and I'm assuming you did well because you were I didn't think that she married me, so that was fantastic. So, what was the how did you deal with those feelings of being scared in public speaking?

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Look, um, with the course that uh I did with you, especially focusing on that um you have to make sure you've got a plan for it, rehearse your speech, do things like I would have never thought of for vocal uh warm-ups. Uh, and I drink plenty of water.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Yeah, so we've done a lot of work around feelings and also around how you can kind of manage if there's nervousness. Um, and one of the key things that I will always tell everybody is that you should do as you said, you prepare, um, you know, warm up your vocal cores, but also do some meditative breathing because that can really calm your nerves as well. Um, and if you get so sick, so the sick feeling, what do you do?

SPEAKER_03 3:56

Just take a moment.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Squeeze your butt. Squeeze your butt. So if you squeeze your butt on your upper thighs, that can actually stop that sick feeling. And it does actually work on hangovers and it works on theme rides and car sickness as well.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

So that sounds like British research to me.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

It's based on the Jackie's research. So, how long had you worked in government uh in government doing the same way before you th you stood up and thought, well, actually, I need to change my messaging and I'm gonna do that via public speaking?

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Look, yeah, my experience working in government, I think public speaking is its own different thing. The experience that I had probably previously, I've spoken to about a maximum of 60 people in in one session. No PowerPoints then, just with the overheads, uh slide things. But um, I think public speaking is its own definite thing. And I really identified with what you said earlier that um it is quite terrifying to be up there. But you know, you've got to get your message out there, and especially if I had an original idea, I knew I had to try and get developed the experience, which I'm still developing speaking publicly.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Yeah, and I've definitely seen that progression for you for each of the sessions, and and I think confidence really comes from doing it more and more, isn't it? So from your first public speaking experience, what have you learned from that experience that you now translate into your other ones to make sure that you improve each time?

SPEAKER_03 5:20

I sort of had a watershed moment uh last year back in July. I I um I had to deliver a eulogy for my mum because uh she'd passed. My older brother was a tradee, so he was no way he was going to speak. My young brother had a health matter at the time, so I had no option but to get up and speak in front of people. And it wasn't I there was about a hundred relatives in the room and friends, and then it was about 300 people online, so I was very conscious of that. But again, practicing my script, and I first time I'd seen myself recorded, and when I thought I'd stumbled, I'd gone, um, uh, no, it was actually okay. So that then gave me a lot of confidence, and I think shortly after I did your course, which really sort of solidified it. But also for that first speaking engagement, I co-presented um with a colleague, Sam Parker, who's very experienced um presenting. So that sort of got my training wheels going, and then yeah, just plunged in in the US uh earlier in the year.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Yeah, and I think you've kind of articulated that really well to do it with somebody else, to talk with somebody else always eases you into that kind of transition, and that's the one thing that I would recommend as well. But it also gives an extra dynamic to the stage, I think, if you're talking with somebody else, because you can make it more conversational style, which can really help with relaxing those nerves. Now, as you know, one of the big things that I talk about is storytelling, and you are have really sort of honed into that skill, and you talk about job crafting. Do you want to just explain a bit about job crafting and what that is?

SPEAKER_03 6:54

Yeah, so job crafting, um, I was reading an article back in 2019. I was on the ABC, which is the public broadcaster here website, and it spoke about uh when the article was when people find your work meaningless and how you can tailor it more to you. And it led to me with job crafting. So, job crafting, we all do it. It's been just part of the human existence. We either think of it cognitively for ourselves, tasks or relationships, but um it's that sort of psychology in there as well. And job crafting is just making it uh U uh UK expert Rob Baker, he'll talk about when you get a jacket, you maybe want to tailor it to bet a better fit you. So that's effectively what it can do.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Love that, love that. So um just looking at your LinkedIn profile, you talk about Project X, which is an award-winning award-winning naming convention project. Um, can you explain that in a really simple way? Like to your child.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

Oh yes. So that used a lot of storytelling in that regard. So it relates to again research in that particular project. I came up with Professor Bruner's research. There was a show called Adam Ruins Everything, TV comedy series. It was on a little bit, where he explains real facts to actually behind particular things like the music industry. In this case, it was uh screenwriting. So Professor Bruner's research, he's a US psychologist, discovered there's 22 people are 22 times more likely to remember facts when it's told in the narratives. I then I've got an interest in comic uh book stories. Um I do that as a hobby. So I thought, okay, I'll just create a story and um lend in some historical facts, which is another personal interest of me.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Which I just think is a brilliant concept that you've created an information management concept and put it into a comic, which a lot of people relate to. And and then you did a movie.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Yeah, like the original plan was not at all to do a movie. Uh obviously movies are are stories as well. So I was leaning into that uh the pandemic, a little thing because of the pandemic uh broke out during that project. So we had we were suspended for five months. Um and we actually had a hall, the story was set in 18 uh 53. We actually had a hall that was around there uh at that time, planning to do a pantomime again. Great British tradition. But of course, putting 60 odd people in a um hall in during the pandemic's not a good idea. So we had to create a movie. So that was a real challenge. But if gosh, it really felt like project management 101. Okay, write the script, find the actors, give them a script. I should have given them a script a lot earlier than three months to learn. So, but yeah, that would that was a really actually I really enjoyed writing the movie script for that.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Nice. And with every good movie, you had a beginning, a middle, and an end.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

Exactly. Um, yeah, so it's um as as I mentioned, like it's very movies, I suppose, identify a lot with people, and that's what uh job crafting can do. It engages that and storytelling engages the emotions. So I often people can talk to hours about their favorite TV show, uh favorite movie. So it's in the job crafting and the storytelling combined. That's what I was hoping to do. So that the staff who were the target audience for the for the movie and the comet, they only had to remember the main characters not to know it was about naming conventions and how to name documents in a SharePoint system.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Which I just I just love. And I love the fact that you have such a passion for history and you build that into information management. How do you do that and why do you do that?

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Uh well, again, like um I should have really been historian and I think I remember telling to you yourself, Jackie, I was born in the wrong country. I should have been born in Essex as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Go Essex.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Because you've got history and stuff everywhere, but but again, also I enjoy learning a lot about the dreamtime stories and and things that happen here in Australia, which are again good examples of storytelling, conveying the facts and the narrative. So I always try to weave history in in any way, shape, or form. And information management and all the record keeping that we we do and we're trained to do is helping those stories, you know, because the historical figures they have a beginning, they have a middle part, as you mentioned before, and they have an end. So we don't know. Someone could be as famous as you, Jackie, like you are now. So hopefully you're keeping this video as evidence because it'll be really worth something.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Uh well, it's on YouTube and Spotify, so cheers, David. I'm very, very happy with that. But what I feel, because I feel like when people do public speaking, they have this we need to change the narrative, and that kind of what you've done, certainly with information management. Gone are the days where you can just stand up and talk about retention schedules just in that way. But what you are doing is you are bringing something that you're passionate about, you care about, and you're confident in talking about, and you're blending it with those concepts. And then what is then happening is when you're delivering your talks, you're far more confident, and you can really deliver a really engaging and impactful talk. And I think you've you've blended that exceptionally well. So you and I were in AIME International Conference in April, um, which was super fun. So I think you entertained my ADHD brain there, David, didn't you? And we um popped over to one of the hotels to see where the hunger games were a movie, a story. A movie and a screen. A story.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

We were living the dream.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

We were living the dream, and we went up the escalator and down in the escalator.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

If there's any kids watching, it is okay, adults are okay to play in elevators as well.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

But we weren't taped and we didn't run down um the outside of it, so that that was absolutely brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

We weren't throwing scraps and then had to fight and no, we didn't kill each other, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

No.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

Thank God. We're just the fun bits, guys.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

My point is before we digress here, is that you're also speaking at Rimper conference this week, and you're also speaking um uh speaking at Karma, so that's the Kenya Association Records Management Association in Kenya. Now you become an international speaker within a year.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Wow, yeah, uh September last year in Adelaide, I think. So how did how why if I'm interested in that? Like I've got from this week, I'm actually doing six presentations in three countries in three weeks on two different topics. So one of them is a brand new one tomorrow, so the latest paper. So I suppose it is a lot of you still I would love to have all all expenses paid, but the biggest investment you can make in your life apart from uh a relationship, your house, your your cars, is course in yourself and your career. So you've got to spend a little bit of money, but you're worth it to invest in.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Yeah, and I think that's so important. And what's kind of you talked about your professional development, you talked about your investing in yourself, and they're one of the key things that I drive certainly in this industry with organizations cutting back budgets, and actually, how can we drive information management forward if we feel like we're being stopped by organizational and budget constraints? But what is the biggest thing that has driven you to become an international speaker?

SPEAKER_03 14:08

Oh, of course, I've always been interested in other cultures, and um, this is a great way to combine my my work. I've been lucky enough to have an original idea that's sort of led and opened the doors. But I think, you know, I used to be very serious about my career, but I realized like wasn't necessarily going the way I would like it to go. But then when I started treating myself less seriously, that sort of opened up and I was able to tap into my creativity. But certainly um getting the message out there and having a strong message, being a confident public speaker, I realize I have to do that. And it's out there, as you mentioned earlier, it's learn by doing.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

So and I think you're a huge role model in this because you've, you know, you start at the start, you say you've been in it 40 years, and you've had to adapt your style with the times. And we're very much having to do that in information management as and as information leaders, you know, even in privacy, cybersecurity. We're having to adapt with a space of technology and certainly with AI. And I think changing your messaging to actually get buy-in within the organizations isn't about this is who we are, it's about creating those stories and impactful engagement to really get that kind of buy-in. So, what's the main message that you want to try and share with listeners around the world that are going to listen to this podcast today?

SPEAKER_03 15:25

Oh, look, lean into your personal passions and bring them into your day job where you can. You'll be surprised how much creativity. And that could be, it doesn't necessarily have to be public speaking. In my case, I realize, well, I've got to get that out there, get that across. But, you know, if you believe in in the presentations that you're giving from your colleagues, they'll support you. Your managers will love it. Executives around the world are begging for fresh ideas to come through. And let's face it, in fa information management, we're in the lower parts of the organization. This is how we can get attention to our important messages. And again, connecting back to my strong interest in history, preserve that information and knowledge to make better decisions for our organizations.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Yeah, I think you're brilliant, David. I really do. So what is your next? I know you've got karma and I know you've got Rimpa, but what is your next public speaking? Is it international or is it local?

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yeah, so uh it's a combination of of both speaking locally here. This is my home state. And I think for it doesn't really matter the difference between internationally and here, being confident within front of 13 people uh and being confident in front of 300 people is the same, it's the same dots to be connecting. But I'm looking, um, my next thing that I'm looking into, I've been facilitating as a sandpit session, which is simply just practicing facilitating. Um, there's a thing called liberating structures, which I encountered last year uh in the Adelaide Rimper conference. And then I've been exploring that. And I just really see that for myself. Liberating structures, it's we get stuck with five big presentation ways of so we have a presentation, a managed meeting, like a council meeting, brainstorming sessions, status updates, and open discussion. So liberating structures, liberating structures adds an additional 33 methods to organize group interactions. And I'm seeing that as a vehicle that I can use to unlock more creativity with job crafting.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Which I just love. I mean, I think to be in our industry, we have to be creative, we have to innovate, you know, think outside the box and just bring our authentic selves like you do using history. In my book, I talk about public speaking and sharks. You know, I love sharks, I love Australia, you know, I completely value them, I fear them, you know, but you can start to talk about the things that you're interested in. What is the most rewarding part for you for being an international public speaker?

SPEAKER_03 17:57

Oh gosh, I'm certainly meeting as as many different people as as I can. I genuinely enjoy chatting with people, with their experience, what they have, um, and just learning about people. I suppose I have a genuine interest in in that regard. And it's great to have the opportunity to also go through with a career in records management um and share my knowledge and experience. You know, we all learn a lot from these um international uh conferences and that um and it's great to have that opportunity um with support of RIMPA karma is also supporting us to to go across to Africa. So I think that's the most interesting thing, and hopefully inspire some people around the world with what was an original idea of mine.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Certainly, because I think like one of the biggest things is you know, we might all live in different countries, but in when it comes to records management, certainly Australia is a principle of following the sun. So your standards and your application of records management are you know far greater than the ones in the UK um and versus the US. So you can just follow follow the sun around it. And I think it's really useful that you can tap into different countries and share your learning, share your best practice. So you can learn from other people's mistakes, so you don't you don't do the you don't do that yourself. Um so what's one thing you want the listeners to take away today?

SPEAKER_03 19:20

Just as I say as I mentioned, um, tap into those personal passions and that'll unleash your creativity. If you're not confident of doing doing that, there'll be members in your team who will give, so give them an opportunity. If you've got staff reporting to you, get them involved. Programs like Jackie's is fantastic for giving you that confidence. Um, as I said, I wasn't naturally outgoing and confident as a younger worker. Please don't leave it as long as what I did after 40 years working to unleash your creativity. But um We're gonna make records management fun again. That's what I say. If we're having fun, that'll naturally flow to your your audience and inspire the rep the other staff in your organization.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

100%. So fun. And when you think about sharing a concept with your organization or anybody outside, think about articulating it how you would to a child, an eight, nine-year-old child. What would the language, what words would they use or understand, what languages would what languages would you use, words you use that they would understand so that you can explain that? And they're the kind of concepts that we really need to start driving through public speaking. I think it's been brilliant. Um today. And it's been so nice to have the podcast like face to face. So it's been amazing. Um thank you all for listening.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Thank you for listening to the journals of the information entrepreneur with me, Jacqueline Stockwell. I hope you found this episode inspiring and helpful and have some takeaway tips that can be useful to you. If you liked this episode, please like, review, and share it with your friends. Your support helps us reach more information leaders to stay inspired and listen to great content. Want to test out your strengths and weaknesses and measure it against our empowered framework? Please complete the scorecard. It's a great way to improve and evaluate your skills. You can find the scorecard at the end of the description of this podcast. Stay tuned for a new podcast every Thursday and remember to be bold, be brave, and be beautiful.