053: Mastering the Move to SharePoint: People, Habits, and "Awkward-Awesome" Change with Kylie Welch

Is moving to SharePoint about a file store, a collaboration space, or a total transformation of how your organization breathes? According to digital systems expert Kylie Welch, it’s all of the above—and a massive change management journey. 

In this episode, Jacqueline Stockwell sits down with Kylie to demystify the complexities of Microsoft 365. With 15 years of experience building compliance frameworks and a unique perspective as a children’s book author, Kylie explains why the secret to a successful SharePoint implementation isn't a "Ferrari" of a system, but a practical, simple architecture that helps people find exactly what they need. 

From tackling "information sprawl" to the "three Cs" of good governance, Kylie shares her blueprint for making digital adoption achievable and sustainable. 


What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The "Awkward-Awesome" Transition: Why moving to SharePoint is actually about moving your entire way of working.  
• The Power of Simplicity: Why over-engineering your information architecture often leads to chaos, and how to keep it functional.  
• Permissions Without the Headache: Why you should ditch individual access and embrace Microsoft Groups and permission registers.  
• Behavioral Change vs. Training: How to use micro-learning and "repeatable actions" to help nervous teams build confidence.  
• The Three Cs of Governance: How to balance control and collaboration through Consistency, Confidence, and Clarity.  

Featured Guest: Kylie Welch

Kylie is a New Zealand-based digital systems expert specializing in Microsoft 365 information governance and security. Her work focuses on creating supportive environments where organizations can master complex compliance while working smarter every day.  

Key Quotes:

"I think that they're moving their way of working... We're changing what we do every day." — Kylie Welch   
+1
"It's like you're handing over a really nice Ferrari, but really you just want a car that's going to be practical that you can get in and drive." — Kylie Welch   

Follow the Conversation:
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review! You can find Kylie on LinkedIn, where she shares her insights on making complex systems simple for everyone

https://kyliewelch.com/collections/information-management-resources

Kylie Welch | LinkedIn

Jacqueline Stockwell ARIM, BA Hons, MSC | LinkedIn

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hello and welcome to today's show. I'm Jacqueline Stockwell, CEO and founder at Leadership Through Data. I inspire and motivate information leaders across the world. Hello and welcome to today's show. Today, Kylie Wilch is joining me from New Zealand in lovely Wellington. So Kylie is a digital systems expert with 15 years of experience helping organisations master Microsoft 365 information governance and security. Her goal is simple: to give people the structure and the confidence to work smarter. From building complex compliance frameworks to writing adorable children's books. Kylie's work is all about creating environments where people feel supported to grow. So let's get started. So, Kylie, when people say we're moving to SharePoint, what does that what does that actually mean? Is that a file store, a collaboration space, or an information system?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Kira, it's like I think that they're moving their way of working. One thing, if we mention SharePoint, or if we mention a new system or a way a new way of working, this is what we're doing. We're changing the way we work, we're changing what we do every day, whether it's just opening up a document that you use every day, or if it's it's the way you share information or collaborate. People actually uh going to SharePoint or any system. It's just a new way of working. It's a big change management journey. So let's just say you've got an organization that's using MS Teams really well. One thing I must mention is that I admire that when COVID came about all those years ago, we suddenly had something to collaborate with, whether it be MS Teams or any other solution. But that's when we started to collaborate. But not all of the people that we work with realize that behind the scenes you've also got layers, you've got SharePoint, you've got OneDrive, you've got different ways of working. And depending on how and where you are in the Microsoft environment, it can become a very scary place or it can become a very awesome place as well.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Yeah, I agreed. So let's look at that from an information management perspective. So what's the biggest difference between using SharePoint and using SharePoint well?

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Using SharePoint well. I think it's it's when people can't find what it is that they're looking for, that's when it's not going so well, and when that when it is invisibly well set up behind the scenes, and people can do their work every single day. That's that's when SharePoint's set up really well. So whether it be the information architecture behind the scenes that's keeping those parameters in place or just the way that we share with our external partners. So it it's setting us up for success behind the scenes. So with the right foundations and the right building blocks, that's what's going to set us up for success. I was talking with someone the other day and they work in SharePoint, but they don't always know where to find their information. And I immediately thought to myself, well, what's the answer to that? How do you talk to somebody who knows that you're a SharePoint implementation? That's your job, that's what it is that you do, and they say, I can't find the information that I need. So setting SharePoint up really well, that the solution is to make sure that people find what they need every day.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

And whether they're automatic or whether they're at home.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah, it's really interesting you talked about COVID, because we've very much moved in the UK from paper-based and dipping our toe into digital to COVID and really pushed pushed us forward. Um and a lot of the conversations that are happening now is around information sprawl. Like where is all this information? And I think SharePoint actually adds to that, doesn't it? It is because there's multiple places where things that where things now. If somebody was just moving to SharePoint, what is the one thing that you would recommend them to start with?

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Set it up well to start with. So make sure that you've got, you know, from an information management perspective, have that taxonomy, make sure it's it's all based on functions and activities and subactivities, etc. Get the metadata in place, but work with people. So from my experience, hosting workshops and working with the key stakeholders to make sure that we understand what are you doing now before we make big changes. What are you doing now? So even if you have to have big post-it notes on the wall and just write down little pockets of information that you've got as a as a group, business group or team, depending on who it is that we're working with. I think that just working with the people who are actually using the information is really important. So there's facilitating those workshops and making sure that they understand, hey, we are going to somewhere new, but there's ways that we can bring that information to you so that you can grab it pretty quickly, regardless of where you are.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

What are those most common mistakes that organizations make in SharePoint that create chaos or information sprawl later on?

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Sometimes it's been too complex. Sometimes keeping it simple. I think my whole career and even with my children's books and and and the writing that I do, keeping it really simple actually helps us understand. So when I write on on LinkedIn, that's just my brain, just the way that I've learned something, it's me trying to help others experience in that way. So what I've experienced is if you're if your architecture, if if your site solution is too complex, it looks awesome. It's like you're handing over a really nice Ferrari, but really you just want a car that's going to be practical that you can get in and drive. So not being too complicated is probably what comes to mind for me initially. And then also don't just hand over the keys and leave.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Because I often talk about you don't want the Ferrari to start off with. You need a car with four wheels and somewhere you can get from A to B. Don't go straight for the Ferrari right at the start. So I think that's a really good metaphor. How do you approach information architecture in SharePoint without over-hearing over-engineering it?

SPEAKER_00 6:04

I guess I could just give a practical approach of what I do day-to-day, you know, working with people. So let's just say you approach me and you're like, I need a solution, I've got something that I need. There's two ways that people approach me. They say, I've got a site that need I need all staff to access, and I need to upload some policies and procedures and guidelines, and I need to have news articles, and I need to also have training in there. So there's these solutions that are available to us just using communication template within SharePoint. And then also once you've had a chat with them, you you realize that they also need an area for their documents as well. So whether you create a document library within that SharePoint site, which is normal practice, or maybe they would just need a separate site as well for the work that they're doing within their team, but that you don't want all staff to see. So there's different solutions that we can create that I create for staff. And it is about knowing what it is that they need. Because I mean I get excited because when they come to me and they say we want a solution, I I kind of find it exciting because I know that it's going to improve the way that they manage their information. So once I've created that, I just work with the uh stakeholders, the team, and get those document libraries set up. But lately I've been able to hand the uh blank communication template sites over to people because they're really keen to learn. So they have run with that. So I've I've just uh created a template site for them, and then uh a few days later they come back to me and they say, Look what I've done. And they've created an incredible site for all staff or for the team, or depending on who the audience is. And that's kind of exciting because it's just a really a new way of working. It's very collaborative and it kind of enables our our super users and site owners to just run with it. And they're enjoying it because it's something different and design is fun.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

I love that. I love that. If you could give teams one rule of thumb for sites, libraries, folders, and metadata, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 8:05

I guess it's just making sure that the structure's working properly. Because sometimes we think it's working properly, but it's not as working as well as it could do. So we could actually make it better if we work together. Don't be afraid to reach out to your IM people or SharePoint team, those who who have SharePoint um admin rights at at your organization and just talk with them. Say, Wonder, can I do this better? This is how we're managing our information now. But there's so many bells and whistles in Microsoft now that we can add other things that they can make that might might make their life easier, even if it's a bit of metadata or you know, a topic within their library that will help them understand what that information is.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

So, what does good governance look like in SharePoint when you're trying to balance control with collaboration?

SPEAKER_00 8:50

I think good governance is consistency. I've I've worked with some amazing information architects, Jan and Nadine, come to mind, and they're managed so at an organization I worked with, and they were really, I would say strict, but in a positive way on consistency, making sure that you've got these repeatable templates that you can use, but it's keeping our information from, like you mentioned, from information score. So keeping consistent confidence. So once we have set up these sites and making sure that they're consistent, making sure that not only do we have the confidence as information architects or SharePoint implementation team, having that clarity of what's next. So there's that confidence, consistency and clarity. I like the C's. Um within those parameters, it's not just us as it as the people who are implementing it, but it's those people that are working with it too. If they've got consistency, they know that they have to be consistent in the way that they manage the information. And if they've got clarity knowing where it is, and if they've got confidence, then I think that's it, that's a big win. Compliance is really important, but I didn't put that in there as the first three C's because compliance should be behind the scenes. Um and it should be embedded and maturing all the time.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

But compliance is really important.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

How do you bed in clo uh compliance? So retention, sensitivity, access controls without making people feel like policied or overwhelmed with it?

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Yeah, I think it can be overwhelmed, especially if you're setting up those security controls. I've seen it work in two ways. There's been this big announcement, this is coming, we're going to have to use the markings to to say whether it's an unclassified email, etc. And I've seen the Big Bang approach where it's just there on Monday and you turn up. And both are fine in their own way, but as long as people aren't can understand what we need to use, like whether they they have got the bit of information there, an FAQ, a few guidelines, because it can be overwhelming and it can be annoying if you're not sure what it is that you want to apply. So making sure everyone's on the same page and everybody knows what it is that they are going to be using it for and how they use it. I think that's really important. And hear everybody, if people are saying, Is this really this is not what I want, just hear them listen and explain the importance of them.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Where do organizations typically go wrong with permissions? And what is the most sustainable way to manage access over time?

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Permissions.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

It can be can become Oh my goodness, I've spent I've spent so much time in the in the weeds, I guess, just making sure the permission groups are proper, properly set up. Or knowing, you know, coming into an organization, you get to see the lay of the land and you get to see how things are set up. But just making sure you've got that best practice set up is really important. Making sure you're using the groups rather than the individual people being added to those sites, those areas within SharePoint is very important. But make sure you've got, I guess you could have it. I've seen permission registers, which work really, really well. They are time consuming and it's a big admin overhead. But if you've got a permission register and if your organization isn't too huge, but I've even seen it work in an organization as such, 15,000 members, it's huge. But having a permission register knowing where everybody resides, and if you see something outside of that register, you know that that's not been added properly, right? That the person's just been added in an individual space. So my advice is don't add people individual unless it's the uh the way that the organization has set up Checkpoint, which I've seen, you know, but use permission groups if you can.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Use those Microsoft groups.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

You're known for making adoption achievable and sustainable. What are the practical steps you take to help teams actually change habits?

SPEAKER_00 12:47

I am a big fan of training, but I've changed the word training to behavioral change, just behaviors, like what we do every day. I've spent so much time with people who are just freaking out about the changes. You know, they're not happy about the changes, they like using network drives or they like the way of working, and suddenly something new's coming, and it can be really overwhelming. So working with people, just knowing that we're people we're people, and sometimes we don't like change, training and uh behavior, the the way we can embed our behaviors in a new way in a new system. People often say, oh, it's not that that different, it's just this is where this goes now, this is how I do it now, and comparing what they used to do to how they do it now can be quite helpful. Sometimes doing a map or one thing I'm doing at the moment is running some familiarization sessions for MS Teams, OneDrive and SharePoint. But I'm I'm just saying, hey, come to the session a few times. You don't just if you come once, that's awesome. But if you feel like you need to come two or three times, that's absolutely fine. And that just makes people feel understood. And it's a I can hear the sigh of relief sometimes that, oh, I really do want to come again because it's a lot to to learn and there's a lot covered in these sessions. So training, uh just considering our behaviors, you know, we all know that we like to do things a certain way. So working with people in that way as well, and repeatable actions. I often say in my training that repetition is our friend.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

If we use it often, we tend to be get really good at it. How do you build confidence for people who feel nervous about doing it wrong in SharePoint?

SPEAKER_00 14:24

I think there's two ways that we go. Like I can speak personally too. You can either overthink or or avoid it. But you've got to find that middle ground as a trainer or as somebody who is working in in the SharePoint space, helping people adopt it. So if you find that people are overwhelmed or overthinking it, it's being that calm and being that subject matter expert to come into that person's way of working and say, if you're doing it this way, let's try this way. You can see this eye for league because they they understand that it works and they're not doing the wrong thing or that they're not gonna break it. So if somebody's overwhelmed or overthinking it, or if I'm overwhelmed or overthinking it, reaching out to someone who you know is really good at something and doing you can work with them.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yeah, it's about getting out of your comfort zone as well, isn't it? And it's um feeling the fear and doing it anyway.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

What role do champions coaching and micro learning play in getting consistent information behaviors? I think it's trust.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

Trust and doing things in small amounts. So if you trust the trainer, if you trust the person that you're working with, and that you help them in small amounts, or they help you gain confidence in small amounts, I think that that that micro learning and then knowing that you are working with a subject matter expert or a super user, or that you are that person who's helping people learn small repeatable steps. And little bits at a time is really um it helps everything shift. So what we're what we're doing, let's say we're going from network drives through and starting to use SharePoint, what we're doing is that that everyday shift, it's everything that we're doing shifts and we don't want to break anything.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

So little small repeatable steps. I love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

What does future ready look like in SharePoint and what should organizations put in place now so they don't have to rebuild it later?

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Well, I come back to thinking about how functional taxonomies are quite helpful if you're going to build something, uh an information management repository or solution. Making sure it's well structured and well managed. I think the well-managed is really important. Having a competent team who understand not only the big picture like strategy, where we want to go and grow in our information in regards to how we manage our information, but having a team of people who are really competent and confident in in the the system, because when things change, and of course they always do, we're going to want to make sure that we've got the right people there that are um working in these environments. So making sure you've got domain information architects who understand the big picture and us information architects who are um working within those parameters and making sure that we're rolling out a very good solution and sticking with those consistent, confident, clear steps.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

If you had to leave listeners with three priorities for SharePoint success from an information management lens, what would that be?

SPEAKER_02 17:31

It's all about people.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Everything we do is just about you. It's about you. And making sure that you are comfortable and that people knowing that there's help, knowing that there are people who want you to succeed, but it's also about behaviour, making sure not only that what it is that we do is helping us work and do our job really well, but it's making sure that we are not only detecting the right behaviours, but showing the right behaviours. And if anyone's not doing the right thing, just helping them in it in a way that would make them feel confident.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

I love that, I love that. And certainly people are simple. I think it's a a great answer. Um, a lot of people can look for technology or as the answers, but actually it's the people aspects in it that uh that make the difference. Well, thank you so much for your time today. It's been absolutely sensational. Thank you for listening to the journals of the information entrepreneur with me, Jacqueline Stockwell. I hope you found this episode inspiring and helpful and have some takeaway tips that can be useful to you. If you liked this episode, please like, review and share it with your friends. Your support helps us reach more information leaders to stay inspired and listen to great content. Want to test out your strengths and weaknesses and measure it against our Empower framework? Please complete the scorecard. It's a great way to improve and evaluate your skills. You can find the scorecard at the end of the description of this podcast. Stay tuned for new podcasts every Thursday and remember to be bold, be brave and be beautiful.