059 The Man Behind the Architecture: Security, Allyship, and Being Yourself with Peter Rising

What does it look like to lead with kindness and honesty in the fast tech world? 

In this episode, host Jacqueline Stockwell talks with Peter Rising. Peter is a Senior Partner Cloud Solution Architect at Microsoft, a writer, and a YouTuber. He knows a lot about technology, but that is only part of his story. He also stands up for women in tech, cares deeply about mental health, and is an autism dad. Peter has Tourette’s syndrome, and he talks openly about his journey to show that leaders can look different than we think. 

In this episode, Jacqueline and Peter talk about:

• How Cloud Security Has Changed: How moving data to the cloud changed everything, and why companies need to plan ahead to stay safe. 
• Humans and AI: Why tools like Microsoft Copilot are great for helping us work, but still need human minds to guide them. 
• How to Be a Real Ally: Why men need to do more than just say they support women—they need to speak up when things are unfair. 
• Being Yourself at Work: Peter's experience public speaking with Tourette’s syndrome, and why workplaces need to give real support to people who think differently. 
• Avoiding Burnout: How Peter sets boundaries to log off from work, write books, and run his YouTube channel without burning out. 

Peter reminds us that "every day is a school day." If you want to learn about cloud safety, AI, or making the workplace a better place for everyone, this episode is for you. 

Find Peter Rising:

• LinkedIn: Search "Peter Rising" 
• YouTube: @PeterRisingM365 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hello and welcome to today's show. I'm Jacqueline Stockwell, CEO and founder at Leadership Through Data. I inspire and motivate information leaders across the world. I am super excited today to be joined by a colleague, Peter Rising, and he's a kindred spirit, as they say, who is doing exactly the same thing in the world of cybersecurity. Now, Peter is a senior partner cloud solution architect at Microsoft, a retired Microsoft MVP, and a celebrated author and a YouTuber. But if you follow his work, you'll know that he is more than a technical mastery. It's only half of his story. He is a fierce woman in tech alley, a mental health advocate, and a proud autism dad. He lives his values out loud, sharing his personal journey with Tourette's syndrome to challenge our industry's idea of what a leader looks like. And he is chairing our upcoming panel at Experts Live, along with myself, Nikki, Evelyn, and an incredible lineup of women. So really looking forward to diverting into that security and compliance community. But today I've invited him here to talk about the man behind the architecture, which is all about my podcast. So welcome, Peter. I'm thrilled to have you. Now, Peter, you've spent decades in the Microsoft ecosystem as a cloud solution architecture. What is the biggest shift you've seen in how we approach security by design compared to 10 years ago?

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Wow, great question. I mean, things change very, very quickly in this space, but over the last 10 years, I would have to say that since things moved into the cloud over that 10-year period, things have changed massively because prior to cloud being where everyone was putting their content, their data, everything was very protected behind a firewall and an on-premises, which was very, very easy to do. But it st wasn't so easy to protect the cloud because it's out there, it's all over the place. So it became a bit of a wild west, but over time, controls and techniques have arisen that enable you to to protect and and govern your content when it's when it's out there, when it's less in your control, so to speak. And I think that's the biggest change that that I've seen. That's led to some good adoption of migrating data to the cloud, but also some ill-considered or not considered at all adoption of moving to the cloud, where many organizations kind of bury their head in the sand a little bit and or a lot. And they don't do what they need to do. They don't do their homework before they they move all that data and and realize that it's it's a it's a scary old place out there in that big worldwide cloud.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

And it's one of those things that you can't just turn it on, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

You have to actually plan for it and anticipate the things that are coming. So let's talk about copilot. So I love copilot. Um, but there are some challenges with copilot and the rise of copilot and the automated security. Like, how do you see the role of the human expert changing? And are we becoming supervisors of AI? Or is the human element more critical than ever?

SPEAKER_00 3:49

I think that the human element is just as important, if not more critical than ever, to your point there. And as somebody who is fortunate enough now to work at Microsoft, so I get access to all the shiny new technology quite quickly. So I've been I've been using as an example, I've been using cowork for for quite a while now, and that has transformed the way that I work massively. It's enabling me to do a lot more things in a lot less time. A lot of what I do involves preparing PowerPoint decks, and it's honestly it's changed my life cowork, being able to tell it, right, this is what I'm doing, when I'm doing it, this is the audience. Can you get me the right content for it? And it can do it in Microsoft format with the right look and feel and fonts and all that. But it can't do it all by itself, it needs that human trigger and then that input and refining along the way. So the human in the loop is really still very, very important, and I think we'll continue to be for longer than a lot of naysayers are predicting. I mean, I've from the very beginning historically been uh AI cautious rather than AI skeptic, I shall we say, as long as it's in this era of generative AI rather than the scary AI that we see in movies that can become sentient and do all sorts of stuff, then I th I think we're good for a while. The key to it is keeping the human at the the centre of things, hence the name co-pilot, not pilot, and also being responsible about it and ethical. I think if we can do those things, then I think we're gonna be okay for for a good while yet, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Yeah, and I definitely think that that is a really good point, because there is some fear around AI taking over our jobs, and in some areas that is true, but certainly when it comes to information management, from our perspective, you need still need somebody to govern, still need somebody to instruct, still need somebody to sort of clean up data and you know comply with the law. And I think they're the key things of the role that we hold that will always be there going forward. And and at the end of the day, it is a piece of technology. Uh, and I've had the same experience of you, certainly being neurodivergent, I'm dyslexic, so it has definitely increased my productivity using formats like that for creating things. So let's talk about our upcoming events, which I'm really excited about. So you're a key advocate in the woman in tech alley. In your experience, what is the difference between passive support and active alleyship in a corporate environment like in Microsoft?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Oh, that's a really great question. And and for me, it's backing up what you say is is the key to it and being consistent. I've I've seen so many examples over the years of uh of fellow males who who say that they're allies, but then they don't follow through with clear intent on that, and they will not call things out that need to be called out. I mean, I've seen so many examples where I've been in a group where a female present is the best qualified person to answer the question, but the question is directed to her male colleague who is perhaps not technical, and these sort of unconscious, hopefully unconscious, but sometimes conscious biases, I'm sure, uh still need to be challenged. So it's very, very easy to say that you're pro that that you're an ally to to women in tech, but showing up and demonstrating that and challenging the wrong behaviours is is something that a lot of males fall short of doing. And I'm not shy to do that. If I see it, I'll call it out and say, hey, you that's wrong, you need to do better there.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Yeah, agree. Then it's it's it's leading with your actions, isn't it? So it's rather than your words, it's absolutely leading with your actions because that'll give you conviction. And I think it's disappointing. Uh I had Nikki on the show last week, week before, uh, and she was saying obviously there's such a like a difference in the Microsoft MVPs. So women are very lower majority in terms of their MVPs. Um and you can see that across the whole of the the tech industry as well. And some parts in information management. So a lot of information leaders, as I say, are female, but it's whether they're going to be heard, and it's about building that credibility and visibility and you know increasing that influence so they are those trusted people that will people will actually listen to. So on our panel, it comprises there's a wide range of I think there's five of us, isn't there? So I'm really excited about it. And we're all kind of in women leadership roles. So we've got technology, we've got me and um yourself as the chair. So what are your mo what are you most hoping to learn from our perspectives that might differ from a traditional male dominated tech discussion?

SPEAKER_00 9:24

I think that's a really good question. And I think um what I always try and learn from any type of diversity across the spectrum, whether that's male versus female versus other genders versus neurodiversities, is every diversity for me has a unique perspective that they can bring to the table. The expertise can be the same, but the perspective that that diversity can bring is is very important because I mean, generally speaking, men and women do think quite differently about a lot of things. So a man would not think of a certain perspective to bring to a technical conversation that a woman might think of. So I think that's where I am always interested to hear things that I may not have thought of and that, oh, that's a really good way of thinking about it. Uh, and that to me is one of the things that really frustrates me about why we're still having these conversations a quarter of the way through the 21st century, why this is even a topic that we need to bring to bring up to highlight it. It shouldn't be so, but we've still got so much work to do. And this is why I'm so passionate about being part of this and trying to encourage other males to come to the table and and show up for this.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah, 100%. And it's a it takes you back to the human aspect of it, because we're all different, we all have different perspectives, we all lead different lives. And and I the way you're describing is exactly how I think. I think people are so interesting and people are so think think differently, and you can really enhance your own thinking by listening to someone else's perspective. And I think if we can draw more males to that environment and listen to our perspective, that would be absolutely amazing. Now, you've talked a lot about neurodiversity, and I really want to sort of dive a little bit further into that. So you're very open about having Tourette syndrome. How has being a public speaker and a leader with Tourette's changed your definition of what a professional looks like?

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Massively, uh, because it's something I'm very conscious of. Even right now, as I'm talking to you, I mean, I have good days and bad days with my Tourette, and for the benefit of anyone listening, watching to this, my Tourette's manifests itself in facial ticks and twitches. At at its worst, it will be things like sudden head jerks like like that one, which I kind of did on purpose there, but kind of was natural as well. But so it's always something I'm very, very aware of in terms of how it's impacting myself, although I am very, very used to it and unable to deal with it on a day-to-day basis. But also how other people perceive me, on f I'm gonna say f 100% response to it over the years has been massively positive. Nobody's ever really said anything about it or or commented on it, but I'm I'm I'm very upfront about it. I'll say if you notice me twitching or doing a strange thing with my eyes or whatever or my face like that, that that that's what it is, and I'm fine about it. And if you want to ask me questions about it, do so. But funny thing is, I when I'm speaking quite often, when I'm up on a stage and giving a talk, I'm I'm I'm less aware of it for the most part. It's it seems to be very, very random how it manifests itself. I think it is more prominent when I'm excited or passionate about something or nervous about something. So in a way I take it as a good thing because I think those things are good emotions to have about anything that you apply yourself to because it shows that you care. But um it is it is difficult to live with, and I do worry there goes one there. I do worry that I'm gonna damage my neck or or something like that. I have started medication for it recently. I've tried that before with not so great results, but I've I'm giving it another try lately. I'm a couple of weeks into it, so we'll we'll see where we get to with that. But it's it's part of the cocktail of my makeup, my DNA that makes me me, I guess. So I I don't resent it. I I I I just go with the flow with it.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah, and I I think it's amazing, and I, you know, very drawn to you because you're so open about it. Uh when I first started, I didn't get diagnosed until I was 21 with dyslexia, and then felt, oh, I should keep that hidden. And until I started my business, I've been very proud that I'm dyslexic. You know, recently found I've got ADHD and I'm very much the same as you. Somebody asked me to take notes. I said I'll put my hand up to chair a meeting, but I won't take notes. And also my ADHD gets a lot more when I'm excited as well. So I'll start to talk a lot quicker. So, but I think they're really unique things that we can embrace. And I think it just makes us the most amazing people that we can actually say, yeah, hey, I am neurodiverse, this is me. Um, but I bring so many wonderful things that come come with the neurodiversity that other people just don't. And having researched a lot, a lot of people that run are entrepreneurs, they run their own business, they also have ADHD and dyslexia. So, and having people on the podcast, such as yourself, I've seen a lot of people in in the information management industry to say, Oh, hey, I think I've got dyslexia, uh, or I've got ADHD, I'm really enjoying your posts, and it's kind of empowering other people to um accept that as their norm, if that makes sense. So I think that the advocate that you are being is truly sensational and it's phenomenal. So please continue to do so.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

You are welcome. So people often call neurodiversity as a superpower in technology. So you are an autism dad and someone with Trets, as you said. Do you find that framing that framing helpful, or do we need to talk more about the actual challenges and workplace accommodations that need to be put in place for us?

SPEAKER_00 15:54

So I think discussion about the the challenges and what needs to be put in place is is definitely needed because I think it's become very easy to make sweeping generalizations like that. All too often you'll see that this or that as a superpower, and uh for some people it might be, but not everybody's the same. Everyone, it's a massive, massive spectrum of things that can affect us all, our unique mixture of what we're made up of, and our motives and our ideas and intentions and whatnot. So it's not as simple as applying brush broad brush strokes to it. So I think employers, organizations do need to be very, very mindful that they're taking care of people in the right way with the right intent, and they are listening to the needs of people with different neurodiversities. It's all too easy to put people in brackets and or or say it's well, that's a superpower, or they're they're very lucky if you're a person with autism who has a 100% recall photographic memory, that sort of thing. It's every person matters and every person is unique. And it's hey, it's hard for employers to cater for everything because it seems like there is a a massive spectrum of things that we can talk about now. If you think about autism and uh ADHD and Tourette's and there's so many other things all very, very worthy of being heard and and uh education uh being in place for them. Uh so but but just because it's hard, it shouldn't be a barrier to organizations realizing they've got a responsibility, a duty of care to their employees to to make the workplace as accessible and as safe and as open for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Yeah, agreed. And it goes back to that thing where you were saying about AI and us being human and the human element of it, you know, with the human element element of it and the AI technology, um, it can really all be brought together. So that's brilliant. And I completely agree with that. It's just around employees sitting down, having conversations, understanding who the person is and what support or accommodations that they can make. So let's talk about cybersecurity. So cybersecurity is a huge burnt-out field. So you're a mental health advocate. What is your non-negotiable habit for staying grounded when the threat landscape gets overwhelming?

SPEAKER_00 18:34

My non-negotiable is definitely having clear boundaries of switching off of context switching. I've not always been great at that, but I'm learning as everyone else on this planet, I'm a work in progress. So I'm always I'm a lifelong learner and I'm learning to improve myself and grow with everything that I do. So I'm trying and I'm broadly speaking succeeding, having that context switching and saying, right, it's time to shift context now from work to home. I need to be there for my wife and my two sons, depending if they're both at home. My oldest is off at university a lot of the time, but uh he's camped back at home right now as his term has ended. So, I mean, there are occasions when work emergencies will intrude. I'm fortunate and that the role that I'm in now is very, very evangelistic. So I'm I'm I'm not going to be in the type of security where I'm being asked to respond to a drastic incident. So um I'm I'm not gonna have hours and hours of my time taken away by a a customer who's hit with a with an incident or whatnot. So I'm very fortunate there. But that's that's my non-negotiable today, making sure that I'm thinking about the right things at the right time.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

I love that. And I love the fact that you're uh acknowledging that you're learning every day and making improvements every day. I think that's just insanely insanely wonderful. Uh my daughter said about going to school this morning, and uh I said, Well, I don't need to go to school. She said, Oh, my teacher says every day is a school day, so you should be going to school. So I I just think that that's just so so good. So every day is a school day. Uh so let's talk about your book. So what is your book?

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Wow. Well, just behind me you can see some of them, because I've I've actually done four. Um and the first one I wrote was during pandemic times. I agreed to I had the typical imposter syndrome when a publisher reached out to me on LinkedIn and said, We've seen you've taken this Microsoft exam, we'd like a book about it, can you write it for us? And I was like, No, no, you don't mean me, do you? But they did, and so I I did it with lots of help from them, and I was very, very proud because writing a book was always something on my bucket list of things I wanted to do. I never imagined it would be a technical book. I always thought it would be some sort of fiction or or some uh something else, but a technical book it was, and very, very proud of it. And then I wrote a second edition of that book and then two other books about Microsoft Teams as well. Exam guides for the most part, and I co-wrote one of them with a former Microsoft MVP. I I don't think he's an MVP still these days, but a lovely, lovely guy called Nate Chamberlain, based in in the US. Um knows his stuff about SharePoint teams, that sort of things, those sort of things. Great guy, really enjoyed working with him. And after doing four of them, I thought, wow, I don't want to write again for a while. I uh I'm burned out with the writing process because there's a lot that goes in there. It took nine months to write that first one. And of course, the challenge is the technology doesn't wait for you to write it, so you keep on having to adjust certain things as you go because the the content changes. So yeah, I thought and maybe we'll come on to this in a minute, but I I thought I fancy doing video content now. It's easier to do and and I'm more focused on that right now. I might go I might go back to writing again at some point. Never say never is my philosophy, never rule anything in or out. But for now, it's off the table, having done a lot of it over the past sort of five or so years.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Yeah, great. So having written a book myself, I've got the the publishing bug to writing it, but it's a big endeavor, isn't it? So it's it's on the card to add another seven to mine. But it's really that sort of challenge. But tell me more about your YouTube channel then. So you've gone from writing books to video.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yeah, so I it's kind of my second YouTube channel. I I started one um again in pandemic times with a very dear friend called Rue Campbell, who's a Microsoft MVP, and he works, he's doing great things over at Threatscape, uh, a great Microsoft partner. And he and I wanted to do a uh we called it Cloud Conversations, where we we we did things like this. We invited guests on and and and chatted to them about uh mainly the tech and what their expertise was and how they could help people to share their their knowledge, but also the personal side of things as well, if they were comfortable talking about it. And and we added some people into the group over time. I I again it's something I'm very proud that as we it started off two blokes who were friends and worked together doing something, and and I said we could grow this a bit, and I'd really like to add in some female hosts as well. And we did. We ended up adding uh Kat Bedam, who is head of AI at CPS, and she brought a really great new dynamic to the channel. We added in Azure McFarlane, based in the USA. She is also now at Microsoft, she was an MVP at the time, very, very dear friend. And and latterly, and very briefly, the absolute superstar of the Netherlands, Femka Cornellison, who is if you if you follow her on LinkedIn, she wow, she does so much, she's a real inspiration to women in tech and uh and doing great things at at Wartel in the Netherlands, another good partner. So that led me to want to do my own thing, just my own channel. So we we we haven't done cloud conversations for a few years now. We've never actually said that we stopped it. We might bring it back one day. It's there, the channel's there if we if we ever want to come back to it, so we might. But I wanted to do a bit more techie focused content, me sort of helping people to understand what's new and what's top of mind with Microsoft security. It's it's all Microsoft focused. And I get a real buzz out of doing that because the content that I share is I've done a few exam guide series on there, and I I aim to educate others, but again, also learn things myself as I go because some subjects I take on that I think are relevant, I'm thinking, well, I need to know this and I can learn it and then share it. So I'm learning as I go sometimes. So it's been great getting amazing reactions from people on the channel over the last three years. I think the channel's been going, three years I've been doing it, and people will say some lovely things. They'll say, Oh, you helped me pass this exam. One person said they I helped them to get a job, which was wow, amazing. I mean, you get the you get the odd troll on there saying rubbish things, but that just shows that you're growing. That you're somebody told my my dear friend Andy Malone, who's got an an amazing YouTube channel, he's been going years and years and years, and he's on 300,000 subscribers now, I think, and well earned. He's he's been doing it a long, much longer than me. He said, you know, you you're doing something right if you're getting the odd troll on there, just just ignore them. Um the haters. But it's been such a rewarding journey. I've learned so much, and I look back at my early videos, and I've learned so much about the process as well of filming and proper microphones and where I'm sat for when I'm on camera and all that. And I've got so much to learn still. I I mean, one of the reasons for doing it, as well as much as anything at the time, was I was a Microsoft MVP. As you said, I'm retired now because when you join Microsoft, you have to give that up. And it was a way of keeping my MVP going because you have to renew that every year and show that you earned to be renewed. But when I joined Microsoft, there was no way I was ever going to give it up because I enjoy doing it so much and I enjoy the process of keeping my learning going and helping others. So it's just been so great doing YouTube. I would recommend it to anyone. And if if you have any doubts about it, if you think, oh, I want to do YouTube, I want to do a podcast, I don't know how to get started, just don't overthink it, just do it, try it and learn as you go, would be my advice.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Yeah, 100%. Every day's the school day. So uh Peter, I think you're absolutely phenomenal. So thank you so much for your time today. So I just want to leave you on this last question. So behind the books, behind the podcasts and the advocacy, behind your Microsoft MVP, what do you want your stamp on the tech industry to be 10 years from now?

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Wow. I would love to there I go again with a turret spot. There. Um I would love to be regarded as or remembered as, however you want to think of it, as somebody who who cared, who tried to make a difference, who was there to listen to others and understand their challenges and and try and help where I can to make a difference in people's lives. I that means a lot to me to be able to try and help and enable others, and I will continue to try and do so as as long as I have the the time and the space to do so.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Amazing. Well, I think you've already achieved that, Peter. So well done to you. How can listeners reach out to you if they want to listen to your YouTube channel or chat some more?

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Yeah, so YouTube, I am uh Peter RisingM365, very easy to find. Um LinkedIn is the other best way to find me. Just search for my name, uh, very distinct name, Peter Peter Rising, I'm not allowed to find. Feel free to connect and message. I'm always happy to hear from people. I I do get a lot of messages on LinkedIn in particular. I I do always reply to everyone unless you're trying to sell me something. But if you've if you genuinely reach out and you want to chat about something, I'll always reply. It might just take me a little time sometimes because I get a lot of messages. LinkedIn and YouTube, I don't have any other socials.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Thank you so much, Peter. It's been phenomenal for your time today.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure being here. Thanks for inviting me.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Thank you for listening to the journals of the information entrepreneur with me, Jacqueline Stockwell. I hope you found this episode inspiring and helpful and have some takeaway tips that can be useful to you. If you liked this episode, please like, review, and share it with your friends. Your support helps us reach more information leaders to stay inspired and listen to great content. Want to test out your strengths and weaknesses and measure it against our empowered framework, please complete the scorecard. It's a great way to improve and evaluate your skills. You can find the scorecard at the end of the description of this podcast. Stay tuned for a new podcast every Thursday, and remember to be bold, be brave, and be beautiful.