The Everyday Trippers Podcast Episode 6: Ron

Ron - In this episode Brian talks with Ron, an avid naturalist that works in ecological restoration on Vancouver Island. 

Music by Howard Goldbach.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome everybody to the Everyday Trippers Podcast. My name is Brian , and I'm coming to you from the Pacific West Coast, the ancestral lands of the Lakungan speaking peoples, the deep forests, thick moss, and endless coastline. The land of the mushroom. I'm so thankful to live my days in this little bit of paradise. The Everyday Trippers Podcast is a place of conversation where I talk with everyday people about the psychedelic journeys they've taken, why they went, and what they brought back. Today I'm talking with Ron, a devoted nature lover who spends his free time hiking the trails and taking photos of the plants and fungi he encounters, and his professional time working in ecological restoration here on Vancouver Island. Ron, it's an honor to have you join me for this conversation. We've spent good time in the past discussing our mutual love for John Steinbeck and the Grateful Dead. We don't know each other all that well. And I look forward to getting to know you better in the next hour or so. Anything you want to mention about yourself as a way of introduction before we get started?

Speaker 1:00

Uh I don't think so. Brian, just happy to be here, looking forward to the conversation. And yeah, I think you covered everything there.

Speaker 1 1:06

Awesome.

Speaker 1:07

So we'll just jump right in. I guess the one thing I'd like to say is when I was thinking of uh this podcast, it did make me realize that coming up on this, I think this May, it'll be 10 years since I first took mushrooms.

Speaker 1 1:18

Okay, very relevant. Starting to answer the questions already. Oh, awesome, Ron. So the first segment of our conversation uh is one that I've kind of framed to myself as chicken or egg. I'm really curious as to, I guess, where we all get started and who we are and this nature nurture question. And uh, you know, one of the only things that I know about is that you trip from time to time. But I'm I'm wondering if you can think back a little bit on your life before tripping, uh your life when you were uh a child, uh perhaps a teen. When you think about that person and you think about who you are now, do you see it as a logical step that you started to uh trip? Was it always something like looking back that you could see yourself working towards? Uh or was it perhaps a bit out of character and did it help to shape who you've become? I guess a whole bunch of questions all at once.

Speaker 2:09

Yeah, just how I got into it and everything. No, that's that's good. Yeah, so I well, the first time I ever took mushrooms was when I was in grade, just finishing grade 12. So pretty young. And um Yeah, I mean, uh excluding all the environmental factors, because obviously, you know, if we lived in a society where it was way more taboo or something, I might have a totally different answer. But excluding all those, I I think I think it is something that I would have done regardless. Uh, when I was younger, um I had a lot of friends who were getting into you know smoking weed, and that kind of freaked me out for a while. Like I did have to kind of get to a point where I felt um ready to do it, but I am the type of person who I've always, even from like a young age, uh, have asked a lot. I remember being like seven years old and like getting very existential, and I've always kind of wanted to find meaning and purpose in life. So I think um and have just an inquisitiveness that I think uh I think I would have found it eventually.

Speaker 1 3:11

Yeah.

Speaker 3:11

Right on.

Speaker 1 3:12

So it was something that came to you in high school, but near the near the end, as you were finishing off. And uh where were you first introduced to the idea of psychedelics? Is it something that um you would have heard about uh at home? Like were your parents people that tripped uh even when they were young?

Speaker 3:31

You know, actually I have heard uh my mom has divulged that she when she was going to university, she did take some mushrooms at one point. But growing up, they they weren't um they wouldn't have let that on at all. So I I would have had no idea at the time. Um it was probably introduced to me more through popular culture. And then eventually in high school, I did have some friends that were I had friends who I can um thank for uh pioneering the way on certain things with me where they started smoking weed before me and I was like, uh, you know, and kind of got to see what it was like, and same with mushrooms too, because uh yeah, I'm glad when I did get into these things. I don't, you know, you don't want to get into them too early, and uh having friends do it kind of allowed me to see what things were like. So yeah, in earlier in high school I had some friends who'd taken mushrooms and I kind of got to see what it was like, but at that time I definitely wasn't ready. But yeah, probably pop culture, but I can't think of a I can't think of a specific thing that brought it up, but yeah, it was probably always just kind of in the ethos. Yeah. Yeah. Uh do you remember your first trip? I do. Yeah. I was with a friend and um a very close friend. We're still friends today, and we took uh I say a small amount, but it I think we took close to two grams of mushrooms. We didn't weigh it out, um, but we took it just in a um like a wooded area in Vancouver, uh north Vancouver. And yeah, I remember a couple, I was reflecting on it, I remember a couple things from it. I remember on the come up being the only time I think the whole time that I was anxious that time was just on the come-up because it was the first time you don't know what to expect necessarily. Uh, and I remember we'd kind of found a spot near the creek that was kind of socked in with vegetation, and we both were kind of I we hadn't said it at the time, but we were both getting claustrophobic, I think. And um we eventually made the decision to leave, and then after that, he was like, my friend uh was saying how kind of I wasn't having the best vibes back there, and I was feeling the same way. So, but after that it was great, it was very, it was very mild, and we just found some random walking sticks and listened to music a little bit and walked in the creek, and yeah, it was it was just a good introduction. It wasn't too intense at all, and you know, one-on-one with a close friend in nature, kind of you know, since then I've I've done psychedelics in situations that you know are potentially less like I I think when someone's first getting into it, I often recommend like you know, small group, good friends, people you trust, be outside. And I don't always check those boxes when I do them now because I'm more experienced, but for that one we definitely checked all those.

Speaker 1 6:13

So yeah, I was gonna say um it's nice to have those that you can kind of watch. Uh oh, you're a little bit more ready for that than I am. I'll see how it goes for you and make my decision from there. But also nice to not go in blind and to have some understanding. Like for you to have your first experience uh outside uh near a creek, that's that's beautiful, whatever it might be. And um I think many of us uh uh who eventually found the setting that would be ideal for them or those details that really create the situation for success, we m may have started with experiences that uh were not so well thought through. Yes. So I admire you for being willing to go into those places afterwards. I relate as well, uh especially recently. I've I've figured out for myself what dosage works for more social environments uh and uh what the right indoor environment is if I'm going with a larger, more heroic dose. Yeah. I I tend to think, like as you were describing your uh the setting, like uh that's pretty ideal. But I also really relate to those feelings of anxiety coming up during that first stretch when you don't know how high you're going to get, and especially in that shoes, your first trip of all time, uh you don't have any context really. Like you can have watched somebody else go through a trip, but not until you're in it do you have a sense of what it's all about.

Speaker 7:44

That is where the most common space, particularly on mushrooms, where I've felt anxiety, is before I'm even high. It's just like, here we go. What am I getting into? How you know, how high am I gonna get? It it's that that's yeah, that's been the most common space for those feelings for me.

Speaker 1 8:02

So Yeah. I know something that I you know, so I think of it as unique, and then I talk myself out of it, and this isn't all that unique, but people who choose to do psychedelics, it's interesting to me because uh having a bad trip is possible. Um I I think even those of us that uh uh keep coming back time and time again, we've at least had periods of trips that were not enjoyable. And yet we've chosen to come back and have more experiences. And I think that uh speaks to specific people. Uh perhaps like you described yourself, uh, I'm not gonna remember your words, but as a kid you were always inquisitive and thinking things through and like thinking about the nature of things, uh existence. Certainly those types of people can lean into a little bit more of the fraught anxiety if on the other side of it is also um something that satisfies that inquiry.

Speaker 8:55

Yeah, because there's an interesting um dichotomy, it might be with psychedelics, where a lot of the time they're just pure fun, but then there's the other side where they can be so insightful, they're used in therapy. You know, I've had trips where I've gone and taken mushrooms alone, just kind of with the thought of self-reflection, or many times just hanging out with friends or being at shows where I take them and it's more just with fun in mind, just something to think about.

Speaker 1 9:21

Yeah. Um, I would say working through this, like starting this podcast has given me, I realize now, like uh, you know, you're probably the sixth or seventh person I've spoken to, Ron, and uh it's uh I came in with assumptions, uh things that I thought I knew about myself, even about my relationship with psychedelics, and then I see that kind of grow. Like I'm a big proponent of set and setting, going in with the right headspace, and um really uh recognizing uh mushrooms particularly, but psychedelics in general as somewhat a spiritual tool uh to help me go deeper, figure out more about myself, uh, and it works for me in that way because I can bring things back into reality and apply them with a bit of a new lens, uh newly shaped lens. But I would be lying uh if I said that all of my trips were completely intentional like that. Uh definitely when I was young, I experienced things that were absolutely crazy because I put myself in situations that I would never want my kids to be in. But I recognize that I grew out of those situations too, and I just experienced some bizarre world reality that I think is enjoyable and healthy for us all to kind of step out of uh a a little bit. Um I think about like, you know, the Grateful Dead is something that brings the two of us together, and we've probably done our own little research into the culture that existed around the band. And, you know, they were there were large gatherings where everybody was tripping balls on acid, or they were, you know, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Merry Pranksters, but uh Ken Keesey and the Merry Pranksters going town to town, like dosing communities and dosing police officers, and like it's so much chaos and craziness. Um I find something about that awfully appealing as well. But uh definitely these days um if I'm if I'm tripping socially, it's usually related to music and uh dancing, and it's a it's a much more manageable dose. Um, and then I've been finding time to trip at home, um, and I'll go, I'll go harder and deeper with safe space and wood burning stove and nothing much else to do. I actually miss uh spending more time in nature and having trips by the creekside.

Speaker 11:57

Yeah, I haven't done uh a classic one like that for a long time. I think with mushrooms in the past you know year or so it's mainly been smaller doses, maybe half a gram at shows or social nights. Yeah, but it it's it's good to do that. And yeah, and the one thing I always think too, uh, you know, the dose, the dose is one huge factor, set and setting, but just like always always ri respecting this the substance because it's uh you know, you never exactly know which way it's gonna go or what's gonna happen while you're on it. It's um I think that's always just a good rule of thumb, is just you know, say you you're in for a bit of a ride, things can get a little weird, and you just gotta accept what comes and you know, work through it, and it all so far has ended up okay.

Speaker 1 12:44

Yeah, trust in the substance and trust in yourself. Respect the substance and trust yourself, you know. That's a good one. Yeah. It's uh the weirdness is not just the substance, the weirdness is is what we bring to the table. Exactly. Yeah. Uh but it can be uncomfortable sometimes, but you you know you work through it and you learn something a lot of the times. That's right. Uncomfortable and strange and wonderful and uh everything all at once. I'm gonna ask some leading questions now and bring things together. But you talked about um just kind of that ideal setting and sharing that space with a small group of people, and uh I know in my life that some of my relationships uh with people have forever been deepened, specifically because we've had the opportunity to to share in a psychedelic experience. And I was recently walking through um uh one of the parks near uh Lynn Canyon uh and remembered 25 years ago uh eating mushrooms in uh in North Van. I think it was actually near the Capilano suspension bridge, but um I can't remember who the people with there are people there that I don't really have much to do with now, but I can still feel a sense of closeness with them when I remember that. And I guess I'm hoping you can speak for a moment or two about just this role that mushrooms may, or not just mushrooms, but psychedelics, may or may not have played uh in your relationships.

Speaker 14:10

Yeah, well, I mean, in one sense, it's it's it's often uh you know a bit of a trial sometimes, especially if you're doing a higher dose and like really tripping and not just you know taking a smaller dose and just having fun. It's it's a bit of a trial, so I think just going through that with someone, it's like any difficult situation that you've been through with someone, if it's like a big hike or something like that. It does, it does bring you closer together. Yeah, I was just um and I think when you're on them too, like I the last time I did psychedelics um was a decent dose. I did a tab of acid with uh my friends uh back in Vancouver and I, we did a big Secret Santa. We've done Secret Santa for almost a decade. And it was a it was a bit of a big party, but me and one friend who I'll just call John, um, we're both on acid. And at one point I remember, you know, we were starting to look around at one point being like, things are getting kind of weird. And we just, just in terms of our own, like the situation was normal, but uh just in terms of our perception of everything. So him and I just kind of linked up, and he's like a close friend of mine, but not you know, not like my best friend of the group, but we ended up just like sitting outside, even though it's January, we were sitting outside on the porch for like the next couple hours, and uh people were like, come on inside and dance, and we were just like the porch was where we we were just on the the same wavelength, and uh, you know, I think since then I'll always remember sharing that with them, just being on that uh, you know, that same kind of wavelength. So that's just a recent anecdote that comes to mind. But yeah, I would just relate it for people, especially for people who haven't done psychedelics. I would just relate it to going through any kind of tough task with someone, and uh, you know, there's a bit of camaraderie that comes out of that. And just the good times too. Just like uh that's one thing with a lot of psychedelics is you just end up laughing like crazy. Like I've all I've laughed till I've peed myself on mushrooms before, and I look back very fondly. Just playing video games with a friend, and we still bring it up and laugh. So yeah, just amplifying good times as well.

Speaker 1 16:09

Yeah, as you talk about that, I can think back to two of my trips, one from last May uh and another from 30 years ago, uh, where I I laughed so hard that absolutely everything else disappeared. And it was just the laugh that existed, and then I remember coming out of that laugh again and starting to realize where I physically was and who was around me and what was going on as I like reshaped my world. But uh Yeah, one of them like Yeah, this past May I was on Denman Island with like a circle of friends. It was so wonderful in a very healthy environment, you know, sitting around a campfire. Uh and there were eight of us and seven of us had uh shared and some tea, and uh we were just riding high, and things got hilarious uh for all of us, including for the eighth, uh, who was there uh I wouldn't say Stone Cold Sower, but he wasn't on mushrooms and uh yeah he he found everything just as funny as we did. Uh but uh the other experience was back when I was in my final year of high school in Ontario, and um Oh my god, the events that led up to this themselves are totally absurd and crazy, but I was tripping balls in a mall, and uh we walked into a pet store, and um the guy that I was with owned lizards, and he wanted to engage the uh just the person like stalking shelves in a conversation about lizards and watching this all happen, and the person was up on a ladder and she leaned down and she was like, geckos! We just got a shitload of geckos in. And the fact that she swore in this store for some reason just turned me on my head and uh and yeah, I just disappeared altogether, and like I'll I'll never like I can physically put myself back in the moment right now talking about it. But uh it's imprinted. Yeah, I could see that being quite a trip. Yeah, exactly. Quite a trip. I I love that you told that story about ending up on the porch, because that's something I I really relate to as well, is when you find that safe space, you know, and you're like, oh my god, I don't feel any anxiety. I feel only goodness. Yeah. I don't think I'm going anywhere right now. Like this is this is where I'm supposed to be.

Speaker 18:28

Yeah, it was funny. Inside was kind of a bit of a mess after we'd all opened the gifts. So you know, this has been a recurring theme for me, but ending up outside it was not surprising. And yeah, people, it it ended up feeling like I was like, uh this is just you know, probably my high brain at the time, but it felt like I'd become like a leader of a movement or something because people kept coming out and saying, Come on inside for this reason or for this, like it's too loud, or you know, and I decided I'm just gonna sit right here. And eventually there was just a big crowd. It ended up being the the perfect night, just people would filter through, and I got to talk to everyone, and I didn't even have to move. And yeah.

Speaker 1 19:02

Yeah, that's lovely. Right on. So you know, I asked you for some sort of details that I could bring up my introduction of you at the beginning of the session, and uh they were consistent with what I know you to be, as someone who really feels comfortable outdoors and uh really explores nature, and um I guess I'm wondering, do you do you think that your love of nature has been um uh provoked at all uh through the mushroom?

Speaker 19:32

Or um I I would say definitely. Yeah, I think um I think I think this is pretty broadly applicable like with what I hear from other people, but yeah, mushrooms and then also I mean I've mushrooms and acid, but it it just uh I mushrooms has helped me appreciate just kind of what m could be overlooked things in life. Um like one example I have is you know kind of that first summer I I took mushrooms looking at the sky and just thinking, wow, the sky is so blue. And I don't think I'd ever remember I can never remember before that, like appreciating the blueness of the sky because it's there. Well, I grew up in North Van, so it's not there every day. But uh it's gray every day. Yeah, yeah. But uh, but you know, the sky is is there a lot, and um but since then I can now like I will appreciate the blueness of the sky, and I it kind of helped me tap into that and just kind of reflect on that. And uh, I think a lot of people really I think that's you know part of why nature is a situation that or just outside at all is recommended for people. But um, yeah, and I I think that what I do in my personal life where I go around and just take photos of plants and fungi and identify them is just kind of exactly that, it's just appreciating the little things. And mushrooms sort of helps you tap into that, but then you can could keep tapping into that when you're when you're not high anymore. So it can help you realize it and it can add a lot of beauty and make you think about things differently. And then it yeah, I think that's one that's one of the coolest things about it. And I I haven't read into it too much, but I know hearing vaguely about studies for depression where I've heard that people can take it and have effects that last for months. So it's um that's really cool about it. It's it's just how it can, you know, you don't you can take it one time and it can change your perspective forever.

Speaker 1 21:18

So for sure, for sure. I mean you spoke earlier about um how when you go through something big with somebody, you feel connected to them. And uh, you know, that can be a car crash or that can be building a backyard shed. Uh but you're spending that time and something happens and you come through it, and uh the way that we attach emotion to our memories, you know, creates perhaps a stronger bond and link when we ingest psychedelics and we stir up everything we've got going on and create uh some chaos and some tumult and uh who knows what might come out of it. And there uh there might be anxiety, there's likely to be some anxiety, but uh with experiencing All of that within a relatively short period of time. Uh, yeah. We walk away feeling somewhat bonded, somewhat more bonded with uh those that we share the space with.

Speaker 22:09

Yeah, and just kind of uh it's I kind of think of it like you're connecting wires in your brain that aren't necessarily normally connected, and uh yeah, it can have a big impact. I'm actually been thinking about doing a solo mushroom trip sometime soon, just just like not even with a super specific goal, but just kind of, you know, self-reflection, just kind of check in with myself, and it's it's um I don't know, it helps you get that other perspective.

Speaker 1 22:33

Yeah, I would say I don't I often these days am doing solo. Um very particular circumstances have to align in order for it to open up the space, but now when I see those things align, my inclination is to step into that space. And um so my pattern is often typically have time on my own, throw on a dead show, and just be by myself for those two or three hours as I work my way through the show. And I don't go in with a goal in mind, but I always feel like I come out with uh a little greater understanding of my present moment, I would say. Uh different things I've been thinking about by the end of the trip have a way of kind of settling into a place where I have a little clarity on them.

Speaker 23:21

You know, despite being a big Grateful Dead fan, I've never really just I've never done that. I've never like I've been to some of the local shows and listened uh on psychedelics, but I've never just really, you know, gotten high and just sat down and listened to a whole show before. I should I should do it.

Speaker 1 23:34

Well, I found that it works really well because uh I mean for all sorts of obvious reasons, but one of the things that works well is just with mushrooms in particular, it's like uh depending on whether you're listening to a show from 74 or 84, it's a different amount of time, but you're often given like a really nice amount of time to sit and be and um get through some of the more anxious times at the beginning, and then by the time the show is over, then you're just kind of coasting down, and uh it's nice.

Speaker 24:06

And the sets are often structured in a way that I think would align really nicely with a come up and a peak and a come down, like in terms of uh jamminess and all that.

Speaker 1 24:16

So yeah, exactly.

Speaker 24:17

No surprise, I guess.

Speaker 1 24:19

No surprise, no surprise. They they must have had some ideas to what they were doing. Something must influence them. Yeah. Oh, there was something else that I I laughed at. Uh you started talking about how uh it's allowed you to see the blueness of the sky a little bit, a little bit brighter, a little bit more, and then your thoughts carried through and you ended up pointing out how it mushroom allows you to spend time with those little things. And I think that that's it. I love that you went from the big sky down to the little things because uh it does. It's like that new perspective is both on uh on both the micro and the macro level, I think.

Speaker 24:58

Yeah, thanks for I didn't notice that. Big the big to the little. But uh yeah, it just makes the and it it can I mean it does connect a lot to things that I sort of just believe philosophically now. Just I don't know, just in terms of um like this passion I have for the outdoors, like it definitely for me it it's it's connected to kind of where we come from as well. Like when I'm out in sort in nature, it just kind of feels like this is where I should be. And there's been times when I've been on mushrooms where I've gotten that feeling and it's kind of reinforced it over the years. Um and also, you know, I I think uh being in uh a natural space, like it can kind of like for people who aren't into my niche interest, it can kind of seem a little boring, but then you know it's helped me open the doors and realize just how fascinating it all is. Like it it is just as fascinating as when you look at it when you're uh psychedelics. Very different, of course.

Speaker 1 25:55

But um, yeah, it's a very different, but not like uh you know, we're so distracted in our everyday with all of our toys and everything, and um we I guess for the untrained in particular, stepping into the woods, it's like I remember not long after moving to Vancouver, like I grew up in Toronto and I moved to Vancouver in '97, and uh like just moving to Vancouver blew my fucking mind. Yeah, uh it was nature on steroids to me. And you know, I was somebody that had tripped and it opened my mind even more to what I was seeing, and then I was someone that had tripped in nature. But in that fall, my uh mother and her husband came out to visit, and I took them out to Goldenears in Maple Ridge, which is a park I'd been spending some time in, like just like the biggest trees, and uh and we parked the car and we started walking, and we're like, you know, a hundred meters into what I was I wasn't expecting some massive hike, but like I thought we were gonna go for a bit of a walk. And uh I was about a hundred meters in, and uh my mom's husband said, uh, is it is it all the same? And I uh it stuck with me until now because I just find that unbelievably fascinating. And it it can be, you know, uh if you're not trained to be outside and appreciate what's going on uh in the great outdoors, then you get out there and it's like, well, what do I do with myself? Where is my phone? Uh what is it that's usually stimulating me and capturing all of my attention? It's gone. This is boring and nothing and whatever, whatever. Um and what a gift it is when you find a way to really access that where you can connect with it and uh be fascinated by anything and everything. Yeah. The smallest details. I love that iNaturalist app. I know. Here on the island, I often hit up Francis King. Great heart. Yeah. Yeah, like this fall was just mushroom crazy. Oh, yeah. And um I'm not somebody that feels confident picking mushrooms. Uh that's definitely somewhere where I would need like a I'd need a teacher and a leader with me. Uh but taking pictures of these mushrooms is like just unbelievable. And getting some idea through the apps, like that's a great treasure that we have that didn't exist. When I first moved to the island, I bought myself one of the books and it was a pretty good one. It had color f color pictures of hundreds, I would say, of mushrooms. But uh having the app uh is a next level way of uh of connecting. But it it's like beyond just the mushrooms and everything, finding like on psychedelics, I remember that trip in North Van, and I just found a piece of like a little segment of the river and just kneeled and listened to the river for eternity. Um and now I can do that. Now I walk through the woods with my daughter and uh she started to trip. I know that's opened some doors to her. Um but regardless, even before that, certainly when they were kids, but walk by and I can stop and I can hear the river in a way that I just couldn't when I was younger. And I don't know, you know, we only have our one life to experience, and of course we age as we go, so maybe we would have picked up some of these lessons anyhow. But uh for you and I and many of the listeners out there, I imagine, uh, we've had some help along the way.

Speaker 29:32

Yeah, absolutely. Um yeah, and it it I mean, this is just uh when you were talking about your your uh mother's husband, it uh it just reminded me uh this isn't necessarily psychedelic related, but I just want to plug it because it's it's a kind of a powerful phenomenon that I think I'd first I kind of was aware of it, but it had first been put into words by Robin Walkimmerer, who's the author of that book, Braiding Sweetgrass. It was in the book Um Gathering Moss, though, or first book, and it uh it was just called the chapter is called Learning to See. And um it just and it was something I was kind of aware of, but I'd never heard of it written before, and it just is the phenomenon of um uh when you when you learn to identify like a plant or a mushroom, you kind of it kind of unlocks something in your brain and all of a sudden you see it. And before you see it, and it's it it it just kind of is a bit of a blur for people, and and it's it's not their fault, but when you haven't learned to distinguish all these individual things, it is just kind of a blur. So um yeah, when you unlock all the individual things, it's it just keeps going. And for me, it's it's built over the years, and uh yeah, no, no, I'm no, I just love it. Can't get enough. I was blind all the time, I was learning to see. Yeah.

Speaker 1 30:45

Um yeah, I'm glad you brought that book up. My wife gave me that book for Christmas and uh it's sitting there waiting for me to read.

Speaker 30:51

Was that Braiding Sweetgrass? Gathering moss. Gathering moss. Oh, nice, nice. I still need to finish um Breeding Sweetgrass, but gathering moss I read and love it.

Speaker 1 31:00

Yeah, I haven't read her, but I was beginning to get a sense of her with um Braiding Sweetgrass seemed to just be popping up all over the place. So I'll start with gathering moss and go from there.

Speaker 31:09

Yeah, it's it's nice and shorter. It's shorter too, so it'll give you a good idea of whether you want to continue as well. I'm sure I will. Yeah.

Speaker 1 31:15

Yeah. You've been talking a little bit about both mushrooms and acid, and something I'm curious about hearing more about are like what's the same and what's different about the experiences for you.

Speaker 2 31:25

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 31:26

Yeah, I for me, um I find acid uh is more consistent and stronger on the visual side. Um and I do find like pretty consistently with acid, I'm less in my head. Like I feel mushrooms, I will feel uh I'll question myself a little bit more, like I'll get more introspective. I've never taken enough to like, you know, have like an ego death or whatever, but I think I I on mushrooms I can kind of feel that, you know, when you're questioning, like I it sort of feels like the ego kind of being peeled away a little bit, maybe, and which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it can be a little uncomfortable at the time when you're like, I'll say something and be like, is that who I am? Or like was that you know, just um yeah, a bit more introspective, a bit more like self-questioning. With acid, I feel more like I am just me and I'm high, but I where I'm like in this world that's yeah, I feel more like myself, a bit more comfortable in my skin. And um yeah, and I often will talk to people about it who've never done either, and I think the assumption is that acid is just like this kind of more hardcore version of mushrooms, but in a way I find that's kind of the opposite. Where it's it's for me, I find it a lot friendlier. I like both. And if I do want, like I was talking earlier about having a time where I'm just gonna reflect, I'd actually probably prefer mushrooms. The time span is obviously a big factor as well. I find it's like twice the length. With acid, I often get to a point where I kind of I'm like, oh my, you know, am I still high? Like, you know, uh pretty far into it. But yeah, that's that's the biggest thing. Stronger visuals and just just kind of a friendlier state, like uh just a bit more fun. Um, that's really interesting for me to hear.

Speaker 1 33:17

I I grew up with acid. Okay. And it was a lot of fun.

Speaker 33:23

Yeah.

Speaker 1 33:24

Um then started eating mushrooms, and mushrooms were much more to me, like sit around the fire or be by the creek kind of thing. Um and then I haven't really eaten acid now in like decades. But I have some acid at home and um I know it to be just like incredibly high quality and I'm excited about it. But I also know that like me carving out, you know, if my family goes to bed on a Friday night, I can I can enjoy some mushrooms, but uh to carve out an acid trip is like uh it's a whole different ballgame.

Speaker 34:06

Yeah, when I took it last time, I took it at 8 p.m. and this was that Secret Santa night, and I went to bed at 4 a.m. Well, that's pretty good, I would say. Still high.

Speaker 1 34:18

Yeah.

Speaker 34:18

Still high. It made falling asleep a bit difficult.

Speaker 1 34:21

But um But still, that's only eight hours. That's actually pretty good. I was I was feeling like I needed 12.

Speaker 34:27

Oh, well, I mean, I certainly I was I was still able to fall asleep, but I was certainly still high. I mean, yeah, I I basically tell people if you yeah, if you take acid, it's your day. Yeah. Like because it's that's about the span of a day and yeah. Um so it does yeah, it does limit the the number of times you can do it. Don't want to yeah, wake up still.

Speaker 1 34:46

Yeah, yeah. You've got to carve out the time. Yeah. Be smart. But now I'm actually a little bit more excited about it because I hadn't really been I I've been having a hard time remembering back how they differ other than just that pure like duration. Um but I'm kind of excited to uh feel I like that you described it as feeling like you. I wouldn't say I've ever experienced ego death. Um sorry. I I have experienced ego death once. Okay. Uh not from mushrooms or acid. Okay. Uh I had the opportunity to DMT this summer. Oh, wow. And was following the instructions of somebody who led me very far into the other world. Um and I assume that what I experienced is what people describe as ego death because I I had awareness, but I could not tell you where I started and something else ended in the way that I do now. And with mushrooms pushing myself a little further uh each time that I have one of these like alone journeys, I um feel like I've felt the various different states of my mind start to separate uh so that they kind of communicate uh and then I have this additional awareness of the very like of the conversation going on. I kind of split into three, if not more. But I always have a sense of uh I always have a sense of myself lying there in that space. Um you can pull it back if you need to. It does, well, mushrooms also they very much have that. I uh the way I experience mushrooms, this um undulating effect where uh it's not that I can pull it back. Uh I'm eating enough that I would have a hard time pulling it back, but I do know that I'm I'm going back relatively quickly. Like I will come in and out of a peak. Um and I would say the peak is relatively short with mushrooms. Like I climb up towards it and spend half an hour to an hour kind of peeking out, and um and even in that peak, I'm going up and down and then settling back into like a nice rolling downhill. But uh yeah, so I feel like myself um I become aware of multiple uh aspects of myself communicating with each other. In fact, this has happened to me, and it usually ends up coming back around, and it all gets sucked back in, and I realize, oh my god, it's just me having this conversation with me, having this conversation with me, and I laugh and I feel good. Yeah. And then it kind of happens again. I don't I don't find it a very uncomfortable feeling at all. I find it quite interesting, but I'm always very aware of myself. There was an awareness with the DMT. Um, but but again, like it was, and it was an awareness of self, but there wasn't an awareness of that self being called Brian. Yeah, it wasn't I had absolutely no awareness of something having ever begun that would eventually end. I couldn't have like I was uncomfortable, but couldn't tell you, I wasn't looking forward to something different because I didn't know that any different existed. I wasn't like, oh my god, if I can only survive this trip. It was um you just melted into everything for everything. It gave me a new understanding of we're all one.

Speaker 38:30

Yeah. For sure. That seems to come up frequently for people with uh psychedelics. And I feel like I've I've talked about that in you know with friends before, just that philosophy. And then I've kind of I've sort of seen inklings of it a little bit on like just the last time I was on acid, just seeing in the darkness just kind of like a fabric woven through everything, and it kind of is like, oh, that sort of speaks to that. Yeah, I you know, you may have talked about your DMT on the podcast before, but um, so you don't don't feel like you have to go into detail. But uh I've done it once, never enough to re like it to really get high, like it was Changa, which I guess is DMT mixed with just like some inert herb. Um and we just smoked it out of a pipe, so I I I wasn't definitely losing touch with reality or anything like that. But yeah, you you it was a positive experience overall.

Speaker 1 39:22

Um I mean I'm very thankful for the experience. Yeah. I've had no inclination to go back to that place.

Speaker 39:29

Yeah.

Speaker 1 39:30

Um it was a really like set in setting, you know. I'd um I hiked the Cape Scott Trail, uh, which is about a 20-kilometer hike out to the beach. Have you done that trail before? So this is northern tip of Vancouver Island. And I hadn't done anything like this, um anything even remotely like this in more than twenty-five years, and a friend asked if I wanted to join him uh and a group of people, and I did. Um like it's heaven on earth. Yeah, it sounds amazing. Uh, you get out of this trail and you're just on this unbelievable beach, like kilometers of beach, and it was July, and uh it was just so beautiful. And my friend was trying to set me up, or it wasn't even a friend, I shouldn't say, the this guy I met hiking the trail. Oh, wow. Like he was part of our group, but I'd never met him before. First time you had, you know, five hours of hiking to talk, and we talked all about the DMT experience and his experiences, and I was open to it. And it wasn't out of a pipe, it was like new age DMT out of a vape pan. Oh, yeah, I've heard. Uh so he led me through what I should be doing, and then he said, you know, a lot of people will purge, so you might want to do it on an empty stomach. So it was the next morning, waking up on that beach and saying, All right, here we go. And uh Yeah, I'm I'm curious as to uh using DMT to get me to the various stages towards that place again. I'd like to see what halfway there looks like. Okay. I've heard of people coming back with like really clear messages as if someone has spoken to them something. And I'm I'd like to experience that place. That makes sense, yeah. And one day I may go back to the place I just described. But I haven't felt an inclination. Like in today's crazy weirdo world, we can go to downtown Victoria and buy a DMT pen out of a shop. Yeah, it's not that's not a very accessible. Yes. Once when I was young, I did try it, and it was um something that I smoked out of a pipe, and there was eight of us, and there was probably enough for four people. And it really wasn't anything to write home about as nothing I could really tell you about anymore. But uh this was different. Like I don't think I'll have any problem talking about this every day until I die. Like uh And it has it has There's been impacts. Um since then I've had lots of reason to think about mortality uh and think about death, and certainly some of that is sad. I wouldn't say it's unfortunate that I've had these uh like this is just life, this is what we experience. It has given me a different perspective and a d different uh how I relate to people that are dying now is coming from a different place. And I feel that I can be much stronger in that place and that I actually can feel more capable of being with someone who is on their own journey towards death uh than I was before. And I don't you know, people have said, oh, for one, I've heard that like DMT is released when we're dying. Um and I have heard people say that, oh, now I know what it feels like to die.

Speaker 42:53

Yeah, I've heard that the one uh a person I know quite well has said said that when they took DMT, they yeah, they they felt like they died.

Speaker 1 43:01

Yeah. I can't I don't know what that feeling is like. Yeah, so I'm not gonna put those words on it. But I can tell you that if if this is what it feels like, it makes some sense to me. It kind of felt like a return into like a stew of existence. Yeah, wow. Um where yeah, the the edges that we are so familiar with in our mortal world um drifted away.

Speaker 43:26

Yeah. So you would uh you would recommend it. Or not recommend it, sorry. You're you're you don't regret doing it. Like you're glad to do it. No, I do not regret doing it.

Speaker 1 43:36

Um as listeners of this podcast know, like nothing I'm saying here is to recommend anything for anybody. Yeah, yeah. Important to pull out the right wording, so I'm glad you mentioned it. But uh yeah, as I'll sum up later, you know, everyone uh everyone gets to choose their own medicines, I hope. Uh and um these work for me.

Speaker 2 43:58

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 43:59

And uh I I go back to them for a reason and that's why I'm interested in talking to you is to find out why do you go back?

Speaker 44:05

Yeah. Yeah, because I uh you know, like the last time I did acid a month ago, good time, but I I have don't think I've ever finished a trip and been like, you know, can't wait to do that again. Like when you're done, I feel satisfied, and it's not until it's been a long time and I feel like I've you know, because it's it it's a bit of a trial.

Speaker 1 44:28

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 44:29

Yeah. Especially what you just described.

Speaker 1 44:32

Well, yeah, definitely. But I think I even mentioned in the last uh episode that I recorded of this podcast that I had uh opportunity to go to a lecture by Paul Stametz, and uh he had a laugh at that in front of like the room of a thousand people at one point. One of the things I enjoyed about that at one point, he asked, you know, just out of curiosity, like who here has dripped and like 90% of the theater had. Um I think it was actually the opposite, where he he asked who has not, and you just see these like few hands go up. And everyone had this sense of like, oh, we're amongst our people. Yeah. Um but uh he also comments on that. He's like, you know, a good trip. Nobody ever finishes a good trip, and they're like, Oh, I want to do that again tomorrow. And no, it's a lot definitely not, it's a lot to go through.

Speaker 45:25

Even the first the first time I did ask it, I remember thinking, like, wow, this is a I can't believe how fun this is. And I think this this was when I was tripping, being like, this is like dangerously fun. But then when you're done, it's like you know, because I was having such a good time, I was like, this is like, you know. But uh but yeah, yeah, I don't know, you you feel satisfied for me at least. I mean, everyone's different, but I I I don't know, yeah, I don't think I know anyone who's I guess unless it's a microdose situation where people are doing it every day, like small amounts to help with their cognitive abilities or whatever, but uh vitamins. I don't know anyone who's really doing it a ton for any of these things.

Speaker 1 46:02

Yeah, microdosing is just something altogether different, and that's somebody else's podcast. I have not been able to Yeah. I have not really experimented with it. Um I don't I'm skeptical of the science behind it, and at the same time just completely open to people doing whatever works for them. So uh anyone out there who's uh been really satisfied with how microdosing has changed their life, then that's awesome. Aaron Ross Powell And if it's a placebo, then what difference does it make? Yeah, absolutely no difference at all. A friend recently gave me a chocolate bar that was divided into twenty point one little cubes and I ate the whole thing. It seems like the best way to consume it. Uh we're gonna wrap up pretty soon, Ron, but uh I've enjoyed hearing about a few of your trips before we do, you know, as uh I like the visual of people who always come back from vacation and they they show their photos and tell their stories, and everybody's like kind of interested, but not all that interested in hearing someone else's trip stories. And I find psychedelic trips are different. I find every trip is kind of interesting to hear about. Usually I end up laughing or smiling at something. And is there a a trip of yours that we haven't talked about yet that comes to mind that you'd like to mention?

Speaker 47:31

Um well, first of all, I agree. I I often hearing about someone's uh like vacation, I I yeah, I I sometimes feel like a bad friend when people are going on and on about it because I just kind of glaze over. But not the case for psychedelics. It's it's uh, you know, something about it. Um well, yeah, at least one. I mean, one there's not too much to say about this one other than just how great it turned out. I don't necessarily recommend people do this, but taking acid and going for a big bike ride. Um a friend and I had taken mushrooms and gone for a bike ride, same friend previously, and you know, we were careful, we were like, okay, we're gonna, you know, keep the dose at a certain level, stay on the galloping goose trail. Um, but uh yeah, when we did acid, that was an original plan, and then and then we just kept going and we biked 60 kilometers on a tabac. And uh and it was great, it just seemed like it worked so well. Um, like having the scenery change around you the whole time was was really wonderful. Um, so I mean I am hesitant to again, I guess going into recommending again. It's not necessarily a good idea because you're on a bike and it's dangerous, but at the same time it was uh very fitting. And then I do have one more anecdote that's um it's just kind of bizarre. But the one time I did take, I think this is the only time I've tripped alone. I um went to Chin Beach, it's along like the WandaFuca Trail. And this was February of uh 2022, it was two years ago, and um had a great time, but um I was I was in the caves because like there's some caves that have been carved out by the ocean, and um this was around the time that Russia had just invaded the Ukraine, and I guess just the world being in kind of a crazy state at the time. I was that was very jarring in a bit early. So I remember that was on my mind a lot. And I was in this cave, and um I saw what I thought in the ceiling of a cave was a was a shell, and that kind of was I was like, oh my goodness, like I don't actually know if it was, but in my mind at least, I was like, oh my goodness, like I was just out looking at the intertidal creatures. Now I'm seeing the shell in the ceiling, like it it really that whole everything is one kind of thing kind of came to me, and I I just sat down and I was looking in the cave, looking out at the mouth of the cave, and it was so bright. And at this point in the trip, I hadn't had very strong visuals yet, but I was just kind of staring out and I could see the beach and the water and the Olympic mountains, and then all of a sudden, this kind of purple sort of sheen washed over everything. And I was like, this is weird, like I haven't really had strong visuals yet. I've been tripping for like two hours, but just gonna keep staring and see where this goes. And then, you know, it everything kind of got oversaturated, like through this kind of circle. I was looking out of the cave, and the mountains kind of started shifting, and I was like, I was like, how do I like how this doesn't make sense? Because I'd already been tripping for a while. And then the thought that came to my mind for a split second was, oh my goodness, they launched the nukes. Yeah, so so I sprint out of the cave, and you know, it was a split second, and then yeah, and then I'm like, okay, it's not happening. And I realized what was actually happening was I was just burning my retina because I could see the outline, the circle that I was looking at up in the cave like as I looked around. Oh, amazing. Um, so that that one people get a kick out of that one, but yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. I'm glad that you thought that the bombs are falling because it's probably good for your eyes to uh stop doing that.

Speaker 1 50:59

Thankfully, it was only a split second, and then that was all resolved.

Speaker 51:01

Yeah, right on.

unknown 51:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1 51:03

Well, I would say that while you know we generally don't recommend things, I would recommend wearing a helmet if you're going on a bike ride, regardless of uh I do always wear a helmet.

Speaker 51:13

And if you and if you have a multi-use trail that you can use, stick to that, stick off the roads if you're definitely choosing to help. Oh god.

Speaker 1 51:19

I um I ride a big heavy e-bike. And uh one of the other things that I've liked to do on my own is make a make a jar of tea and take myself to Willows Beach, which is about like a 10-minute ride from my house. Summer of 2023, I I do it quite frequently. Like uh every other weekend, let's say, I'd go down there and just unbelievably beautiful. It made me so thankful for where I live in the world. And uh there'd be people about, but I found um I don't know my directions very well. I'm gonna call it south, but uh you know, if you walk away from the beach in one direction, you get to this point where there's people's houses to your back, but it's still the beach and uh the sunset is just like you know, over the top, and seals would come and speak to me, and it's just like amazing. And then I tried to go back in the summer of 2024, and the day I went back, uh there were just like teenagers everywhere. I thought I was some cool weirdo they could get high with, and I was like, oh, I don't really have to like you don't know what's going on for me for one, but for another, like I'm not here to spend time with you. And then I tried to then I had this big heavy bike, and I ended up, I just couldn't think about getting on the bike. I was way too high, so I just walked it home. Even though it was challenging, just walking the bike home.

Speaker 52:45

Yeah, the bike I did have a different trip where the bike was we biked and then we got high, and then we had to like hike with the bikes, and my friend wanted to, he was like, we should just ditch them somewhere, and I was like, I'm not ditching it, you know. So they yeah, they they can they can be an impediment too. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, careful, careful what you carry around with. Careful what you carry around, yeah.

Speaker 1 53:04

Awesome. Well, that's been tons of fun, Ron. I really appreciate that uh we had this chance to talk. Just gonna wrap up here. Sounds good. Well, listener, you've made it through to the end of another great conversation on the Everyday Trippers podcast. These conversations are meant to be informative and entertaining. Choosing to take psychedelics is a personal choice and not for everyone. Indeed, no medicine is right for all of us, and I encourage you to think carefully about whether mushrooms, LSD, or any of the other mind-opening and altering substances that we've spoken about in this episode and those of the past are right for you. If you are considering it and you have a doctor you trust who is open-minded, I suggest speaking to them. That may be hard to find, but hopefully you can connect with a friend or loved one with experiences of their own to share. And if not, please keep coming back to hear from our guests and let our stories help you decide. If you're interested in being a guest on a future episode, or if you have something friendly and constructive to share, please send me a note at theeverydaytripper at gmail.com. Much love, listeners. Till the next time.