Season 1 - Ep 3 | The Primal Nature of Man | A Healthy Man Podcast

In Episode 3 of the Healthy Man Podcast, the guys sit down with longtime pastor and mentor Adrian for a real and honest conversation about masculinity, faith, brotherhood, and what it means to fully step into the way God designed men to live. Through personal stories, biblical insight, and practical wisdom, they explore how challenge, adventure, hard work, and authentic male friendships can awaken something deeper in us that modern culture often suppresses. From hiking stories and discipleship to conversations about purpose, accountability, and spiritual growth, this episode is both encouraging and challenging for any man trying to grow stronger physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. If you’re looking for a grounded, Christ-centered conversation about becoming the man God created you to be, this episode is for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Episode three of a healthy man podcast is all wrapped up. We had a great conversation today with our good friend Adrian about the primal nature of man. Hope you guys enjoy. It was a lot of fun. And uh yeah, we'll see you next time. It's good morning. Welcome. This is episode three of a healthy man podcast. I am joined with uh two fine fellows here this morning. Co-host Brad and our good friend Adrian. And we're gonna get into it, it was so funny. We talked about it a little bit um just before we started recording that uh Adrian was like, if you guys want to talk about what it is to have a primal nature, I'm ready. So we just said bet. And so here he is the next on this thing. I said, Why hold out? Like there was so much uh passion that you had in that message. I was like, let's just do this, but just wanted to talk about it was the certainty. Oh, yeah, there was you just knew like and then you felt the confidence through the script, yeah, through the through the text.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Yeah, and then the fact that I walked in to a savage hat. You're gonna have to explain that to me. Yeah, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Well, let me let me just kind of talk about you a little bit because I have to dote on you because people aren't gonna know who you are, okay? All right, so Adrian has been a pastor for many, many years in all kinds of different capacities. Your testimony, we may even get into it where God's taking you on this journey, right? But as of right now, um I don't even want to just say you're leading men because I see that you're doing young adults, you have your own army of children at home that you're leading, you have your own business, right? You're still doing the landscaping thing. Um, just to kind of, you know, when you and I have a special bond in regards to my testimony, you were probably the first, if not one of the first, people who reached out in uh when my life exploded to build me back up in Christ, right? But this speaks to who you are. So, like one thing that I know about you that I want anybody that's watching this to know is like there's people that talk about discipleship and there's people that do discipleship. And what I know of you is that you do discipleship, you take it past good intentions, and you take it into the real thing. So you won't say, Hey, I'll just call you later. Adrian will show up at your house and find you. Okay, this is true. That's right. He says his idea of discipleship isn't uh, hey, let's just have a breakfast once a month.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

And can I be honest? I don't know if I'd be down for all that.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

No, you're you're like a especially when I show up in the white van. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Like I'm not trying to go join boot camp. Like, that's not what I'm doing. I'm not trying to do any of that. I'm trying to enjoy my life.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yeah, you're in the barbecue phase, the kickback, watching the channel.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

Even in my 20s, like I'm like, who's this guy trying to whip me into shape like I'm a marine? I don't know if I love all this. I'm gonna be honest. Well, there's it's you know, I'm I respect it. I'm saying I respect it and I love it, and I love that you call that discipleship. I'm gonna call that like military training. I'm just trying to understand it. Like, the anyone shows at my house randomly and tells me to get my boots on for the mud run. You know what happens with that? I say goodbye. Like I'll see you later. Like that to me does not sound like the primal nature of man, but somehow it is.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

It is, it works.

SPEAKER_03 3:28

Actually, Brad, I got something for you that I think might be conversation uh primal nature a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Oh man, perfect, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

And so your birthday was yesterday.

unknown 3:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

I figured it's not a purse. Oh, no way. No way.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

What is it? I s I see tactical gear and I'm already. It's a blade. Oh, dude, you did not.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

It's like bag, bag upon bag upon bag.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

It better not be pink, man. I don't hold my own. Oh, yeah, it's a good blade. Oh don't cut yourself. It's uh Damascus Steel 67 layers.

unknown 4:12

67 layers.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Okay, so it's a man podcast now. We got a nice.

SPEAKER_03 4:17

This is a man's podcast.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Just don't cut yourself with it. Like right out the gate.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Somebody open the knife, man.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

Yeah.

unknown 4:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

So good. That's when they gave the speech. I don't know how to open the knife. That's right. And this is true masculinity. Okay, I'm figuring it out. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

That's so sick. Let me see that. That is an awesome note. Let me see this. All right, 67 layers of Damascus steel. I'll make sure to.

unknown 4:48

They call that a Tonto blade.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

I don't know if you can hear him, but 67 layers of Damascus steel. I have no clue what that is, but it sounds strong.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Matt, I'm gonna shoot you a text when my birthday is. Dude, are you kidding me? I won't be mad if you get me something similar. Thank you, Matt. Thank you. It's a beautiful blade.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Let me go ahead and keep this thing here for the remainder of the podcast. Alright, it's on. Yeah, you have a nice.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Hold on, real quick. What is that noise? You know who that is? That's Ben downstairs. Adriel, go get him right now. How dare he take a shower?

SPEAKER_00 5:22

How dare he take a shower?

SPEAKER_01 5:24

When we're recording a podcast. No, he's here to clean. That's down there. Oh man. Goodness gracious. Well, we're not gonna edit that out. Leave it in. We'll just leave it all in. It's all in.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Edit what out? Can you edit life?

SPEAKER_01 5:37

No, you can't edit life.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

I know Shane's like Shane was wanting to get in and just get all serious right away, and I'm just trying to figure out who this man is.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Yeah, well, I just wanted to kind of lay the foundation that this man means business. That's what I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

In a white van. And don't misinterpret that as that is biblical discipleship. That is military training.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Jesus says, leave the 99 and go find the one. Adrian's like I know how to do that well. I will find a live. I will find a way to find you. All right.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

I'm gonna let him live now. I'm gonna let him live now.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

We're gonna let him talk about it. One last question.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Okay. Since we're before we get serious. Um honest question. What's your testosterone levels?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

You know, if you've had a blood test resident, Adrian's levels have to be over 800.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

I have no idea. I have never tested, and I have never done TRT or any of that stuff. So I have never tested, so I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

I was questioning like God gave him an extra dose because he's constantly going to be.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

You know what I mean? You're the Toyota of men.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Four-wheel drive. Four-wheel drive. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

So you drove all the way up this morning. And I say all the way up.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Uh Nick Esparza over there is a good friend of mine. He drove me up here. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

So you had you convinced somebody this is the proof of how great your discipleship is. You probably No, he didn't convince him and he kidnapped him. He didn't ask Nick together. He's like, we gotta go.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

Listen, woman, I'm taking it, Nick, we're going.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Am I wrong? This man, somehow, some way he can come into your life and say, This is what we're doing. And you go, like, I can't tell this man no. I can't tell this man no. I'm gonna look square in the back. I gotta let him live. Let him get spiritual. Here we go. All right, so you drove down. I said up, you drove down from Bakersfield. Um, where is it's the hood that we're all from originally? I know Brad doesn't like to claim that now, um, but I'm okay with it being still part of my bloodline.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Tell us a little bit about where you're at right now and your what what we've kind of this is a third podcast in. So what we're about what we're uh what we're we're really trying to get to is to build healthy men. And I'll say it again just for the few first few couple episodes, is like the idea is that health is not someplace that you just arrive at. A health is a continuous thing that you're doing every day. Yeah just like your walk with God, transformation, sanctification. It's something that you have to give intention and discipline to every single day to become healthy men. We want to be healthy fathers, we want to be healthy sons, healthy husbands, um, across the spectrum. So that's kind of like the goal of what we're trying to achieve here. But I know that there's so many different facets, and so you bring aside to this the primal nature, right? That maybe some guys like Brad are going, like, don't, don't.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

I'm no, I have a primal nature, I just don't need to express it through a mud run. Yeah, and he's a cyclist.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

So check this out. This is so I I I sent them a text, and I I really felt like God was like, hey, just send them a text because God gave me this rhema about the primal nature of a man, it fuels his soul. Okay. And how that happens because I've always been an outdoors, go run, go hike, go fish, all that crazy stuff that Brad loves to do. But also, like going. I'm gonna be the feminine man in the conversation. Well, hang on though, because Brad does something.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

David was a poet, okay? He does David was a poet who's a worship leader. So that's 100%. Well, listen. Well, I have an ACL tear, all right?

SPEAKER_00 9:33

But you can get on the map, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:35

100%. I'll choke Shane out easy.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Probably. Probably. No, I do. But it's like the primal nature of a man is not just um what we do as far as like saying, like, oh, I'm an outdoorsy kind of guy. It is something in us that is built in us that fuels our soul. And the way I learned this is I was out in the mountains with these two guys, and one of them was just going through absolute uh trouble. But he was going through it, like he hadn't seen his kids in six months. Him and his wife are separated, he's getting ready to serve jail time. If things don't go, I mean, this guy was down. And I take them, I go, hey, let's go on a short hike, and that's all the conversation. Let's just go on a hike, bro. And we go out on this hike, and it's like super exposed, we're on cliff edge. It's short though, it's like two miles. But I was leading the way, and God goes, let him lead. And I just go, I'm like, he's gonna get lost. Like, you can barely see the trail where we're at. And God's all just let him lead. And so I say, Hey, uh, get up here and lead the way. He's like, I don't know where we're going. I was like, if you pay attention enough, you will always see the trail, but you have to pay attention. And he's like, I see him like being super nervous and like, is it over here? And I was like, Listen, I'm not gonna tell you where the trail is. I want you to find it and pay attention to where the trail is at. And I watched this guy go from depressed, from on the verge of crying, saying curse words to in like enormous joy, like smiling, going, wow, this is awesome. And I'm just going like, what just happened, Lord? And then God tells me, like, the primal nature of a man fuels his soul. That's actually really good. And I go, hang on, God, what are you saying just happened to him? I built into this man something to find that trail, and he had to tap into that and get outside of everything else he's thinking about and tap into that primal nature, look at the trail, pay attention to where we're at, look at all the trees. You can see the formation of the trail through the trees if you pay attention. And that fueled his soul. I had been praying with this guy doing Bible studies. I mean, Nick has done it too. It's like none of that was really hitting his soul where he was hurting the most until he tapped into that primal nature.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

So good.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

So basically, what you're saying is we take the things that cause us comfort sometimes and uh familiarity and put your s put a man in a place where he's gotta like those instincts have to kick in. So do you think in like just you know, I have two sons, you have a lot of kids. I'd love to hear about how you've raised your kids. I've seen a little bit, a tinge, and you kind of teach them the same way, you raise them the same way. You would probably look at me and say, You're a helicopter parent. You know what I mean? But it's just like that idea, what's what is uh, you know, we're in a generation, especially in Western America, where um I talk about this with the Bible study guys. I say if all we do is just come to Bible study and we actually don't do anything about it, we're actually just becoming what uh you know Ron used to say this the fat pewters where you're just getting spiritually fat because you're consuming, consuming, consuming, but you don't see any change. We just read in First Peter where it says like obedience is actually the pathway to like even purity, right? So what is it that you see that we could do better just along this line and and maybe start the conversation is like what what is it that maybe you do in your savage battle bros or whatever? I know you guys have a men's thing there. It's like what is that pathway for you specifically where you're seeing like getting guys just out of the Bible study routine and actually getting it to where it sparks, like you know?

SPEAKER_00 13:43

I think right now one of the biggest things that I love being a part of is letting men be men. Like God created men to be men, and there are certain differences between men and women that are built into us in a way that helps us in our relationship with God, in our relationship with our kids, and our spouse. And that primal nature part is like it's hard to tap into that if all they're trying to do is fit in, if all they're trying to do is be a part. Because in that primal nature, too, there is a man that God has built in you that only you can discover with God. I can't find it for you. Only you can do that. And I think sometimes we try to teach these men all the time, copy me, do what I do, and eventually you have to lead them to this point where they are discovering for themselves who God created them to be.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Because yeah, do you think I know it kind of you just answered the question, one of the questions I have, I have several, but um what is the what is the cause of the sterilization of men? Like so the sterilization of men and like I I I want to say there's like a root in fatherlessness. I want to say there's a root in like um just secularism. That's where I'm at right now. I'm kind of like, so my my assumption is that there's in an antichrist spirit, there's a there's a intention to dislodge a man from God. Where like we were talking about David, where David actually, I mean, he's as healthy of a man as I believe you can get while still being broken and dealing with things, right? So you have David who has committed adultery and he's a warrior and he takes a hundred Philistine uh circumstances. Yeah, you started the story on the following. He's like chopping guys' heads off, but then he's also like lost in the glory of God. Yeah, you know, and he's in the presence of God and he's worshiping and he's a poet. I mean, he's a songwriter, he's a musician. He has this side of him where he's tender towards Jesus, you know, where he's longing for the things of God. He said, like, all I want to do is be in your house, you know, and then whenever he would go to war, it's almost like he wouldn't go to war within his own house, he would go to war against their enemies. You know what I mean? And there, but there was something. What is it within, and maybe you just answered it for me. I feel like when we're dislodged from our relationship with God, like pulled from covenant, the sterilization begins because we begin to try to make it work our own way. And that's where I was thinking about your savage thing. And I was thinking, how do you prevent it from becoming like WWE Macha Nanny Savage? Like where there's this fake, fake savage nature, because there's a lot of guys who will wear the hat and they'll say, I'm savage because Adrian's savage. But the reality is, like, they have not really tapped into who they really are and their identity, and they're not okay being weak, they're not okay crying, they're not okay like praying, leading their family. But you know what they can do is they can go do the bike ride.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 16:59

So, like, maybe, but my point is like, how do you how do you get a man into his purpose so he's like, no, I'm gonna be uniquely who I am, flourishing in what God has for me.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Yeah, I think too, it's the designer, right? Yeah, so God is the designer, and I really feel like you cannot reach your full potential of masculinity without God.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Like how you cannot reach that, and the one thing that keeps moving men away from that is culture is pushing them into we will tell you what a man is and what kind of man we need.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

That's what I'm saying. This the pressure of secularism and like the antichrist spirit there is it's saying, I want my men to be more like my women, yeah. You know, and it's like I said sterilization, but it's also feminization. And then what's happening is you have unsatisfied women because they were designed to be with men. And so, like, I talked to a woman at a at a wedding, a young girl at a wedding, and she was like, I think I'm just she was single and she's struggling, and she's been trying to date these guys, and she's like, I just think I used to want like a soft guy. She goes, but I don't think I want that kind of guy anymore. And I'm like, Yes, of course. I'm like, Yes, you should be dating a man. You should be dating a kind man, a gentleman.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

And really should be dating a man, and you gotta remember too, there is a curse that we all forget about. And in the beginning in Genesis, there's this curse that God throws down, and if you read the text, it shocks you how it's written. Because Eve's curse is very different than Adam's. Dude, so question two.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

Question two, you're hitting the Holy Spirit's on this. How do men in relationships live in dominion with creation? Yeah, or over creation, and not dominate their relationships because the domination of relationships comes after the curse. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

So this curse, if you read Genesis, it says to the woman, this is God to the woman, he says, Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you. The crazy part of that word desire, it is not sexual. And if you've been married, you know it's not this overwhelming sexual desire your wife has for you constantly, but there is a desire there.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

But your masculinity might release some pheromones that you don't know about.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

But it is positional. The word that is used there is she will desire your position. That's why that curse is so weird because it's like you'll desire your husband, but he'll rule over you, but it's a positional, you will desire his position and he will rule over you. Now, the reason I bring up the curse is because in that curse there is something that is built in that a guy should be aware of, and that is the pressure from the world will always be give your position. Okay, make room, right? Give it up, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:07

And we just we just moved out of the Me Too movement, and so you can see where we went from the pendulum of abuse of men physically and verbally into you know what I mean, pat passivity into complete like non-masculinity, and now we're trying to adopt it back. But let's I want to stay on this and not get away from it. So I'm a I'm a a guy who's new, fairly new to Christianity. I'm trying to discover it's it's a walk, right? It's or a dance, rather, right? Because it's like I believe when you're discovering this place that we're saying that we need to get to that's that's healthy, is that there's always going to be failure. Ebbs and flows of in the sense of like, oh, I adjusted, you're making adjustments on your discovery, and you need a good person that's walking with you and discipling you. We said that apart from the Lord, you won't be able to discover it. So, what does that look like applicably for somebody that's well? How do I how do I like lean into God to help me become this this person who I'm meant to be? Because primal in its definition is the basic instinct that was created there from the very beginning. So God put literally something in you that was the basic need and tension in you. How do we discover what that is and leaning into God? Like, what does that look like on a day-to-day basis?

SPEAKER_00 21:26

I would say this too there is something very primal about having a pack, about having brothers. Like you will never get to that potential either without brothers. That's good. And you need those brothers to help you to keep you planted with God. Like those brothers are the ones who are when you say something crazy like, screw the G plan, I call it the God plan, the G Plan. And uh and that brother's gonna go, no, wait, bro. God is the plan for us. Yeah. And you go, Oh yeah, that's the plan. Okay. Accountability then. Yeah, well, brotherhood, because like true discipleship is not showing up for a Bible study, showing up for church. That is not true discipleship. True discipleship is friendship at its core. And friendship is super primal because your care for another person, your ability to help another person outside of yourself has to be an overwhelming thing for it to work. It's very impractical, illogical. Like the lone wolf idea is very popular right now because it's logical. I'll take care of me, and if I take care of me, nothing else matters.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

And the lone wolf is just an orphan spirit. Yeah, yeah. At its core. No father, no family, uh, no friendship. It's you have no home, so you gotta survive. It's an it's an orphan spirit.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

So what do you do? Because there's so many different, I think what again, the accountability, the friendship, keeping you aligned, the the word and and Jesus is our example is like the foundation. We talked about this um in the first two episodes. It's like that plumb line of setting that, like, this is what a healthy man looks like. So when we get off into the into the the way of life, we can always, this is where we base our our progress or our failure off of is who Jesus was. Accountability being a strong part of that. What do you do? Like, because for men, myself included, is I can't help talk about something that's a basic instinct. I can't help but looking at other people, and that's my that's my measure. Like, oh, I gonna pick this up from Adrian, I'm gonna pick this up on how to be a healthy man from Brad, and I'm gonna pick this up, and I don't know if I'm picking up something that's the healthy part or the unhealthy part of each individual that I'm basing that off of, right? So even with accountability, like to take this even further, I'm a guy who, let's just say for an example, I deal with struggle with anger, or I struggle with lust, or I struggle with jealousy, or I deal with trying to overcompensate. And I've I haven't been the person leading my wife for so long. So how do I get to that place without like making it that like abrupt neck twisting adjust adjustment where I listen to this podcast and the next day I go into my wife and I go, like, I'm leading this on, I just heard this podcast. So like like I know I just said a lot there, but all those questions, like I wanna I want to really squeeze everything out of this for a guy to give him at least those next first steps on so accountability is great. Like, how do I how do I get that from the Lord on how to become that?

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Yeah, so like I said in the beginning, discovering for yourself with God. That's how you reach a lot of this, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:47

And so does that look like daily devotion? Does that look like daily prayer? Does that look like that?

SPEAKER_00 24:50

It looks like a relationship relying on God. Okay. So you wake up in the morning and you're like, Lord, here I am. You present yourself before the Lord and you say, Thank you for this, guide my day. And in that relationship, you start discovering God will start pointing out the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of you is gonna start pointing out things that are you. Because one of the things some guys will tell me when they want to get discipled, they'll be like, Listen, bro, I want to get discipled, but I'm not doing an Iron Man. I I'm not running no 20 miles, like, I'm not doing none of that. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, and I'll go, that's fine. I I'm not telling you to be me at all. I'm telling you to be what Jesus wants you to be because this world needs you, not another me. And they go, Okay, I like to shoot guns and I go, cool, we can do that, you know, and it's actually the job of the person discipling them to figure out what that is too. Like, let me help you, whatever you because there's David was a warrior, right? It took King Saul to point out, like, oh yeah, this guy is really good at war and slaying things. Like he sees him slay a giant and goes, like, wow, I don't think this guy knows how effective he is. Let me send him out to conquer some people. And he starts to realize how good he is. As a friend in Christ, it's our job to do that for them too. Like, I see in you that God has built this ability to go and shoot guns really well, to be very tactical. I think sometimes men have been so pushed down nobody explores with them who they are. Like, everything's like conform, fit in, do this. If you uh I'll tell you one line if you make your wife happy, your life will be happy. That is the biggest lie I have ever heard. I don't care how long you've been married, you will never make your wife a hundred percent happy.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

That's truth. That's truth. I totally agree.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

I thought you were going the other way. I was like, I've heard that line in my whole life. I've got happy life. I mean, obviously, don't please don't.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

That's why because it's not in the Bible.

unknown 27:18

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

It is not in the Bible. In fact, it says it is married. I literally just got married. So listen, God has a plan for your life. It's it says to treat your wife as a weaker vessel. Not that she is, but God is giving you this example that, hey, you do have to take care of this person, but you should know her desires and her needs are not a hundred percent everything your life is about. The man I created you to be is enough to supply both.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

So, so then I'm feeling some tension in the discipleship piece. So, like, I agree with you. I think you have a grace. Here's what I want to say, just speaking over you. I think uh for those who don't know, Adrian, I think you have a grace with helping men unlock their identity. That's part of it, like their true identity is what we're seeing. Because a lot of your discipleship it's about discovery and it's about like, okay, who were you designed to be? Um, where are you at? How do I break you out of, help you break out of like what you're trapped in, right? So that's part of it. But absolutely the tension I'm feeling is I see that in Jesus and Peter, right? Like, so I see Jesus these moments where he says, like, who do you say that I am? And then Peter's like, Well, I say you're the you're the Christ. He's like, Yeah, flesh and blood didn't reveal this, but your father in heaven. And so there was a realization that came whenever he uh said, I believe you're the Christ, that he said, now I'm gonna tell you who you are. I say that you're Peter and all this stuff. So he started speaking to his identity. And this is like for me, like a like a moment in time where Jesus is unlocking identity. But the other parts of discipleship that like, how does shooting a gun help you deliver a demon? You know what I mean? How does shooting a gun help you heal the sick? How does shooting a gun help you plant a church with sex trafficking victims and Bali? Like, how do how do you bridge how do you bridge how do you bridge that gap? You know what I'm saying? Because I can see it becoming very self-centered. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Yeah, where I think to to answer the question too, well, the way I see that is like, you know, the disciples walked with Jesus for a lot of years. No, actually it was very short, three years. Well, three years is a lot. I mean, for I don't know about you, but three years seems like a long time to be walking with somebody, right? And then they still didn't even get it because they scattered as soon as he was arrested, right? Yeah. So it's like when I see discipleship, just like we're talking about, like to become a healthy man, you have to have a healthy foundation. Like until you have the right identity of who you are, right? Discovering who it is that God created you to be, and then having faith that that's who you are and security or whatever word you want to use, then you could argue that you can't cast out demons. You can't heal you, you probably mean the Bible says that you can, but Jesus says, Well, remember apart from me, I don't know who you are, right? So stay, don't hear what I'm not saying. But the idea is like to live out that healthy way. It starts with right identity, starts with right foundation, which some of the things that you do for men, it isn't about the race, it isn't about the cycling. Those are just tools that you use like Jesus did to like get men out of their mold, like you were saying, and then we can begin to build on those things, like you know what I mean, like the walk before or the crawl before you walk and walk before you run, type of thing.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

And I would say this too like Peter and Jesus' relationship. I a lot of people are not gonna like this, but Peter was Jesus' best disciple. Best John was the one who felt like he was loved the most, but Peter was the only guy who would give him feedback, even if he didn't agree. Peter was the only guy who would immediately say, No, that's not good. I want the best for you. Peter would say that to Jesus, and it was not always the best. That's actually a good take. I can agree with that. It was not always the best, you know, thing he would say, but he was also the only guy to pull out a sword and was willing to die immediately when he's seen betrayal and danger. Willing to kill immediately. Immediately, like not to die, kill. Yeah, to chop somebody's ear off, that means he's gonna be able to do that. Yeah, he didn't offer his life, he'd offered death. He was gonna kill for him. Yeah, and he wasn't going for like a leg, he was going for a headshot. That's how you get somebody's ear. Yeah, and he but in that also, Jesus had very unique encounters with Peter. He would go to Peter's work and tell him who he's gonna be. He went to his job site and said, I see you like fishing. Peter's like, Yeah, I'm the best freaking fisherman ever. I fished all night, didn't catch anything. And Jesus is like, I know. I told you to cast on the other side and you caught a ton of fish. And he goes, Yeah, Lord, I'm not worthy to be in your presence. You're something special, you're something unique. And he goes, I'm gonna make you a fisher of men. And he goes, What? Yeah, he had that I see in you. You see how you're a fisherman? You attract men to be around you all the time, even though you're not the greatest fisherman, but they're here with you fishing through the night. I need that kind of man to pull in guys who will do the night shift, who will pray all night and be with me. And Peter goes, I don't even know what you're talking about, but cool, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

And what I what I take from Peter's life too is like the the measure of grace that Jesus gives Peter. Oh, yeah. Right? So like lots of grace. The Mount of Transfiguration, the like, you know, rebuking him and Peter goes, or Jesus is like, What are you doing? Get behind me, Satan, right? Like, what are you doing? There's like a ton of grace. So I want to like taking this, circling this back from men as they're discovering their, you know, their identity, getting to be, you know, who they are in Christ. If there's wives out there that's listening, is like a measure of grace is so important with a man who's trying to discover this. Yeah. Because, like I said, there's going to be times of overcompensation, there's going to be times of failure. A man, if if I can, maybe not every man's like this, but I can speak for the majority of men, like um encouragement is such a powerful tool. Yeah. Right. I tell we speak in my house a lot, like my wife and I have these conversations, we don't like to use the word always and never, because always and never locks a person into who they were.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Right? Or who they are. You so it's like if a man's on a journey and trying to become a better man and he has a failure that looks like something that he did five years ago, five months ago, and we use the word you always do that, or you never do that. It's like we have now stopped that man from progressing into who he's becoming and basically told him, you haven't changed. This is what the devil does. You haven't changed. You're the same old Shane, you're the same old Adrian, you're the same old Brad. You always do this, you never do that. So, like in this discovery that a man goes on of trying to become a healthy person who's not over-dominating, who's uh, you know, meek instead of using his strength like a sword, right? All of these things, there's ebbs and flows, and there needs to be some grace on that walk in discipleship. There's got to be grace. So, like for me, I have a lack of grace with people where I go, like, man, you're a knucklehead, bro. We just had this conversation. What are you what are we talking about, dude?

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Like, come on. I would say Peter, too, is a good example of grace because most people don't understand when Jesus came back, he went to the shore and Peter jumps out of the boat and starts swimming to the shore. Most people do not understand what got that man to jump out of a boat and swim to Jesus. And I would tell you, the night he betrayed Jesus, that was the motivating factor to get him out of the boat. And it was this that when Jesus looked at Peter, because that was the last interaction, it says that Jesus looked at him. Imagine if his look was angry. Peter never would have jumped out of the boat. He'd be like, that guy hates me. I betrayed him. But imagine if everything in Jesus' eyes, everything in his body was grace. And he looks at Peter. Imagine that. I got chills, bro. That is what got Peter to go. That's Jesus. That's my friend. I know I can go to him. And he jumps out of that boat, man. And it, you know, John, of course, right.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Perspective that's grace.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

And then he calls him, and then just to make sure Peter understands this is a grace moment, Peter, he has fished for him already, because Peter's not the greatest fisherman. And then he goes, Hey, let's have a conversation.

SPEAKER_03 36:21

And I've always seen that too, just to add to that. And I feel like that was also like a recovery of what once existed. Because the last time Peter stepped on a boat, out of on a boat onto the water, he uh he could walk on the water when he was staring at him, right? So this time he sees Jesus in the land and he steps out to walk on the water. Except this time he throws himself into the sea. He's not walking on it, he's swimming through it. Yeah, right. So you see this where like before Jesus had to come and rescue him, it's almost like the same thing. It's like Jesus reached into the water and rescued him again with a recovery and like a resurrection of that encounter. Like when he threw himself into the sea, it was like Peter had abandoned self again, and he's like, I want that relationship that once existed between us. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, so like when he saw him, he's like, Whoa, you're alive. I thought I killed it. I thought it was done, and this is grace, this is kindness. Like the kindness of God leads you to repentance, you know? And he jumps on the water, swims to the shore. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

And it brings up the part of restoration too. And I would say one thing that we don't do enough as men, and I try to do this often, is we don't speak into other men. Like, we'll say, like, hey bro, I really like what you did. That was awesome, that was cool, that was a great job. But we don't go like, have you ever thought maybe that's what God made you for? Why not say that? Like, you don't know if that's what God made him for, but he's really good at it. But we don't build each other up sometimes that way. I think those kind of conversations should happen more. Like for healthy men, like to say, like one of the things I love doing, and Shane knows this, like if somebody is struggling with their calling, I will tell them something like, I will never forget who you're called to be. God made you to be something, and I'm not gonna be the guy that will let you forget. I will always call you to that. I will always call you pastor. No matter where you're at, what position you hold in a church, I will always call you pastor because that is who God made you to be. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

What's crazy is like, and I don't think this was this is just us. Okay. So we grew up in a culture, even pre-Jesus days, Brad and I, right? And I'm sure it's the same for a lot of guys, where it's like you had to be so sharp on your toes with your words, because verbal battles were a normal thing, right? Like we grew up, you know, where you know the most popular vocation was working out in the oil fields, working around contractors and stuff like that. Like you see it all in that space, where it's like you gotta be ready to talk some crap back because it's gonna get flung at you. And what happened was when I when we first started going to the church that we, you know, we've all been a part of in the past, and I wouldn't say that it's just that church, I think that there's cultures of this everywhere to where it's like I didn't see anything, it was just there weren't any cuss words, but we were still the goal was to cut each other down. Like you're brothers, we're talking crap, we're cutting each other. I I don't Brad's looking at me like he doesn't remember, but it's like I remember being so pissed. And yeah, I could tell when I got Brad pissed, and he'll say, You never got me pissed. That's this whole thing. It's like you never got me. But it's like you would get to this point, and it but it's the tearing down of talking crap out of the sake of being brothers. Yeah, and when I came over here, and maybe it was my age, or maybe it was the culture that uh that Brad and and the people that were a part of this church set was like nobody people spoke life over here into people. Yeah, there was like actual conversations where there was building up and speaking life into people and praying and encouraging. And when I came over here, I was like, I'm like, I'm ready anytime. You're gonna send me a zinger because I'm gonna send one right back at you. Like, I'm prepped. I'm talking about a savage. I have a PhD in tearing you down verbally. So I'm ready.

SPEAKER_03 40:27

You have a minor in savage.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, see, exactly. See him trying to provoke right now. This is what it is. I spoke all that of him, and he's he's actually backslid since I moved over there. I've progressed. Um, but like to that point, that's so good. And even taking that conversation further, like healthy confrontation. So even with guys, it's like, I know you to be better. Like, what's going on? You know what I mean? But here's my question, and and uh we're at 40 minutes because I can't unsee the timer that Brad put out there. There are accountability.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

He just talked about accountability, accountability.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

There are men out there that that uh we just talked about the grace. Then there's the guys out there where you just go like you need to go, you need to go get fed to the wolves. Like the whole idea of where Paul goes, You want to know what of my favorite prayers is?

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Tell me. And the guys hate when I pray this. Crush them. Wreck 'em, Lord. Whatever it takes, do it. Crush them. Crush them. And listen. Crush them. There is a whole purpose. I'm not trying to be mean and I'm not trying to be a brutal savage, but there is a point in discipleship where I know that God has to intervene.

SPEAKER_03 41:52

He said, I'm not trying to be a brutal savage.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Where God has to intervene and step in in such a way that their heart has the ability to make that choice. Am I going to turn to God at this moment or am I going to keep going the same way? And sometimes the wrecking is the only thing that will motivate a man. And the first part of the curse, too, for the man, it says, by the sweat of your brow, you will toil the soil, right? Most people don't look at the sweat of the brow thing as like it matters. That doesn't matter. We work indoors.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

I'm glad you circled back to this because that popped in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

We work indoors. Like it doesn't matter. But there is part of that curse that is in us, too, that is very fulfilling and it's a trap. And that is you have to earn it. You have to work to get to it. So good. And in a healthy relationship with God, you realize there is nothing you can do to earn what He's about to give you. There is nothing you can say or act on that will give you everything God wants for you. And that sweat-of-the-brow curse, though, it gets us. It gets us. That's why the happy wife, happy life in a marriage works because we can earn that. We that is actually something you can work on and be like, check this out, bro. I took her on a date every week. I did this and that. We make the list. But it only through God do we get the true fulfillment of a happy life. And in that sweat of the brow, though, it's that is one thing that definitely gets in the way of a healthy, savage life, you know? Because you want to earn it.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

Yeah. And I went, and just because you had said you kind of said like three things there, but one, the affirmation culture. I just want to speak into that and like how it changed because you're right. You did step into something that was cultivated. It wasn't I didn't just grow up, I was set free. Yeah, I was set free from competition. Like I have no competition. This is why Shane is the host. Like, I don't care anymore. Like I have nothing to prove anymore. I'm not like sitting here, oh, if I don't have an employee. Something, then I'm not, then I don't matter. Like number one. So like I was healed of competition. I was healed of my insecurities. I was healed of uh all the things that I brought into my relationship with Christ. I was set free like 10, 11 years ago of some stuff. And uh a couple of old ladies, like seven-year-old ladies, delivered me of some stuff. This is real. And I forgave my dad and I forgave the people who had hurt me. And there was a moment where I was completely delivered. So number one, I was healed. Number two, um, I think part of our culture is we understand the power of words. And so as we built this, uh the affirmation culture really began with uh us understanding, like we were always taught, like you can you can curse something and it would die or whatever. And I think that there's part of that, and you could root that in with like Jesus cursed the fig tree. And so there's some power there for sure. The question is, what is what are we supposed to be doing with our words? Is it blessing or cursing? Because James said that a fountain can't send forth both, right? Yeah, so like we could say, like, so cursing is a way of like I'm going to actually limit you and reduce you and diminish you.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

So when I cut you down, it's diminishing. When I bless you, it's calling you higher. So like there's a lot of times where like old Brad could confront, see something and like whatever, and get into this, like, oh, I'm worked up over something and confront. But the reality is, like, I can be wronged. And the Bible says in Romans 12, like to bless those who persecute you. Like, you know what I mean? So, like, when someone hurts me, now I can I can genuinely go to prayer and say, Lord, give me the power to bless them in spite of them. And yeah, or when we're in leadership, like I look at Shane and I I never once saw Shane in his broken condition. I saw him like you as a pastor and the man that God had called him to be. And somehow, like, we all get off track. And then you come back, and that's just part of your testimony. Everybody, most people who know you know. And same with my testimony, like I was broken in ways, and like we're all like in a comeback story.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

You know, yeah, that's good. We are all in a comeback story, and I you know, sometimes people confuse um my life as being like all together and all because of what I do in men's ministry, but I am able to do what I do in men's ministry as far as friendships and everything I do in my life because of all the things that are broken inside of me. That God has decided not to heal. Whoa, that's good. He has decided not to heal them.

SPEAKER_03 46:45

But but hold on, hold on, hold on. I I have to ask that question.

SPEAKER_04 46:47

Dang it, we're ready to land up there. So I just have a few more minutes.

SPEAKER_03 46:51

But I'm just saying, like I don't know that I agree with you that it's the finality of it, though. Like, that's where I am today.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

Like, because I feel like sometimes we're like okay with brokenness. And I don't know that I feel comfortable leaving men in brokenness. I think that we're always pressing into maturity and wholeness and healing, right? So as of today, this is where we are. I think we get into the trap of having to have too much finality on things where it's like I have to be able to make a statement on where I am, yeah, rather than sitting in the tension of the mystery of who I'm becoming. This is why it makes sense. So, like that. That's the only reason I push back on that. Just because like I think that some men are like, well, it's just what I am. I've got a I've got a lust problem. I've not got a thing. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

So this is why I always say, please don't hear what I'm not saying. Yeah, I use that phrase so often because I I do believe that it needs more detail, like what you said uh what you're explaining is right, where it's like we're not affirming brokenness, but there is a place of maturity where you can come and and I think to where you're saying is there's areas of each man's life where we've been bringing them before the Lord for so long to where we go, like just like with Paul, he says, remove this, remove this, remove this three times, three times, and and it didn't get removed. It's not staying in brokenness in a weak state, it's knowing that okay, God has created something in my life to with the intention that it's going to drive me to him. Yeah, we talked about this at Bible study where it's like uh this morning with the Bible, there's mystery in there, and God's ultimate wisdom and power, I believe it says to seek me with all of your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and then you'll find me. God can't be. I'm not denying the weakness of God. 100%, but you're what you said is right, to where it's like a person will go like, oh, I'm broken, and they'll look at his wife and go, like, see, they said it's okay to be broken and God's never gonna fix me, right? Like that's the point you're trying to make.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

But what I believe Adrian's trying to say is what I'm trying to say is this, like, okay, the father thing. I'll give you an example. I forgave my father like you did, right? Every time I tell my testimony about me and my dad, I still feel the pain. Yes, that's real. That's real. That's real. Yeah. I've asked God, why don't you take this pain away from me? I've been a good father to my six kids. I'm not like him. Why don't you take this? My power is perfected. Yeah, and can I help you with as a as a pastor say you're a pastor, you're a pastor, I'm a pastor.

SPEAKER_03 49:22

But I have you as a pastor too. Like he wouldn't take it from you because he loves you. He didn't take it away from Jesus. Yeah. So he left the pain of the cross. In fact, the pain is what made him more connected to us. And so the pain exists because it makes you relevant. Yeah. And because it makes you actually there's fellowship with Jesus in pain. So you're so him taking the pain from you isn't the goal. Him connecting you to his son is the goal. Yeah. And the way to connect you to Jesus is through the cross. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

Well, and again, just to kind of wrap all this in, it's like God's created avenues and things in our lives to help us seek him and pursue him. Like it's almost as if he goes, here's the thing, you seek me with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, you're gonna find me. But I know that you won't, right? Or you'll struggle with it. Yeah. So let me create things in your life that almost assist you that's going to benefit you with taking you back to me.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

And we make enough mistakes that he can use all of those. So he doesn't even have to make it. We make it sometimes. But yeah, man, that's it's a big part of that.

SPEAKER_03 50:29

Can we affirm him before we're done? Oh sure. Yeah, like an affirmation circle. We do these, we're kind of uncomfortable. Like we always uh, and I actually I actually reject these now. I don't want it happening over me. But I'll just say this like Adrian, you're a good man. When I first met you, you're wild, and I was like, I'm still wild. You are still wild, but you but you're honestly like the thing that that stuck out to me with you is like you're so consistent, it's just who you are. This is actually operating in your real identity, and so you uh you're a good man. I'm so happy God has opened up men's ministry opportunities for you. I think uh that's who you're born to be. I love watching you make disciples, like you honestly are a really, really good man, and I uh want to wear the hat um as often as possible. Yeah, I just depends on what you're asking me to do while I wear the uniform. You know what I'm saying? Like uh I'm not a uniform guy, I don't believe in conformity. I I love uniqueness of people, so like I'll wear the hat as long as it's appropriate. Um Sunday. But you're but I no, honestly. He wants to see it if you're gonna be able to do it. No, but I but no, just like honestly, like you're a really good man, and I see your men's ministry, like it's so powerful.

SPEAKER_01 51:41

Yeah, I think you said I think you said the right word, you know, just like how we open the conversation is that you are a picture of consistency of a person who doesn't just have good intentions, but you you follow through with what's here, so it doesn't just come out here, you're following through with it, and it's you've ministered to me, you're a great friend. And uh I I do I I I same as Brad, I have the same sentiment seeing what you're doing with the men, and um yeah, you just mean a lot to me. So I'm glad that you made the drive up. Nick made the drive up. Yeah, thank you, Nick. You know what I'm saying? Thanks, dude. And there's many more conversations to happen, like we talked about a lot when it comes to becoming a healthy man, and it's like this is why this podcast could be never ending because there's so many facets to becoming a healthy person. And um, so we hope that you guys got a lot out of today's conversation and uh you know all the things to do, you can subscribe and follow and tune back in. Um we just want to continue to be a resource for you. We'll have Adrian, Adrian, on again, get into deeper conversations, but other than that, like again, health is a journey physically, emotionally, spiritually, mentally, and um yeah, one step in front of the other. And if you fall, fall forward. Pastor Tom always told us that. I take that. If you're gonna fall, fall forward. All the things, all the cliche statements and ending this show, they're yours to take with you. Write them in a notebook, pass them on to your children. It's awesome. Other than that, we're done.

SPEAKER_03 53:13

God bless you. Amen. Discover your primal nature.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

What I took from this is like happy wife, happy life. That's crap. Get down out of here.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

She's gonna be like, yeah, that podcast is trap. She's gonna be like, you guys are dumb.