Season 1 - Ep 5 | Environmental Health | A Healthy Man Podcast

In this episode of the Healthy Man Podcast, the guys sit down with special guest Ashley Nettles to get a woman’s perspective on what it really looks like for a man to be healthy. The conversation covers everything from personal responsibility and leadership to relationships, marriage, insecurity, and what healthy partnership between men and women looks like from a biblical perspective. Along the way, they share plenty of laughs, real-life stories, and practical insights for becoming the man God has called you to be.

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Episode five is in the books. As always, here with my friend Brad and Ashley joined us today. We talked about environmental health, um, what that looks like. We got into emotional health, um, how to support your spouse and uh the any other thoughts and roles of men and women and how that's healthy, and how maybe we have misperceptions on what that looks like. So it was a great episode, and yeah, hopefully you enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

What are you doing right now?

SPEAKER_06 0:34

We're ready. Ashley, want to clap us in?

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Yeah, ready? You gotta clap.

SPEAKER_06 0:38

Is this episode five? Five. Five. Five. How's it going, everybody? Episode five of the Healthy Man Podcast. I'm here with Brad, and we're joined today by our great friend Ashley Nettles. So we're just talking about uh we just started a summer challenge with the church staff. Ashley, did you make the graphic? Because it was absolutely this is like the most professional graphic I've ever seen. But can you tell us a little bit about what this challenge entails? Because it just started yesterday and you were we were having a conversation before we we uh you know going live here about how there's already people that are a little suspect on because it's the honor system. So tell us about this challenge, who's all involved. I know Brad, you you you know everything too, but just so anybody nobody will have any integrity with this.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

I'm just gonna tell you, people will lie.

SPEAKER_06 1:31

Tell them what the challenge is here.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

People will lie. Okay, they will.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

They probably will, and I probably already know the ones that will, so we'll have to double check. Um, but it is really it's just us as a staff. We were, I think it was Brad, me and Mariah in the office, and we're like, well, we should do something fun for the summer. And it's we we want our people to be taken care of, we want them to be healthy. We understand that health is not just like a linear thing, but it's connected to all kinds of stuff, and so physical health is one of those things. And so we decided to do a healthy challenge for the summer with our staff.

SPEAKER_06 2:03

So just so if anybody knows, this is not just like we're starting a podcast naming it a healthy man just to like be like catchy. No, we're working on it. We're we're we're working on it on every level.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

And and this is going into the family dynamic too. Last night I was coming back from the store and I roll up my driveway and I look down and I see a grown man and his son walking down the street with their chevron legs. I saw Shane and Parker trucking it. That's it.

SPEAKER_06 2:31

I was trying to get it.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Parker looked like he was trying to love it too.

SPEAKER_06 2:33

Oh, dude, he was trying to love it. And so it's a little, it's a little incliney in parts, but it was like everybody started posting in the chat, da-da-da-da-da-da. Yeah, we we're at 12,000 steps. And I'm like, must be nice to have all that time. And I'm like, crap, dude. Like it was work day, it was like a it was a desk work day for me yesterday. So a lot of desk work. So I looked down and I'm like, crap, I only have like 3,000 steps. So this is not good. It is 6 p.m. Yeah. Parker got the family together. Put your shoes on and let's go. We're taking laps. So Carissa and Graham were with us on the first lap. They bounced out and I said, Parker, I do.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

So Chrissa's already gone short on her steps. Yeah, Carissa and Graham.

SPEAKER_06 3:17

She got called after the day. She's a teacher, so she was walking around. Um, but Graham was like, no, I'm done. So Parker and I took another lap, and I still didn't hit 10,000. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

So the whole point is that why did you not keep going till you got 10,000?

SPEAKER_05 3:31

How do you do that?

SPEAKER_00 3:31

How do you what'd you get? Like 8,000. What's the point?

SPEAKER_06 3:33

Yeah, I know. Hold on. Let me let me tell you how many steps I got yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

I really don't care that much, to be honest with you. Why would you not just do one more lap?

unknown 3:41

I know.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Listen, you know. You're gonna go that far. You gotta go. How do you want to get up off the couch to go and then you don't complete the 10,000? How do you do that?

SPEAKER_06 3:51

This is this is speaks to our culture. I said I I crushed 90 ounces of water. I got because there's there's a point system, right? Yes. So tell us the five basic there's bonuses. Let's not go through the bonuses. All right, and then we do have a podcast. Five basic the daily five that you get points for.

SPEAKER_04 4:07

Yeah. So let's see if I can remember them all. But they are you have to get 10,000 steps, do a 30-minute workout, drink whatever your water goal is. So each staff member got to choose their water goal, whatever their nutrition plan is. You got to choose your nutrition plan and then get six hours of sleep every night. Those are the five.

SPEAKER_06 4:26

Yeah. I crushed three out of the five yesterday.

SPEAKER_04 4:28

I got four.

SPEAKER_06 4:29

I crushed three out of the five. Sleep check. Water check. Uh I probably crushed all five.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

I probably crushed all five, but um, I wasn't tracking yesterday. I was busy. Yeah. I was running a construction site. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I'll be tracking today. Just by the end of the day. I know that I got six hours of sleep, though, because I was I gotta order it tells me. I got eight hours of sleep.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

How much of it was like REM sleep and well that we're not that's not part of the basic.

SPEAKER_06 5:00

So there's prizes that we're giving and making it fun for the staff, and basically we got two months that we're trying to encourage and promote health within the staff and a little competition. But like we were talking about, there is a little bit of suspicion already out there where people are posting points before they actually sleep. So it's like we'll we'll have to address that at the staff.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

You cannot afterwards that you have six hours of sleep before you go to bed. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 5:24

We believe in prophecy, but I think we're stretching it. So, this is the question that I wanted to start asking every single person that pops on the podcast, Ashley. So I'm gonna we'll start with this and we'll dive in. And just for reference for anybody, uh I I wanted to do this as well, like just to highlight, because you do many things. You you're you're you're a hustler, you handle business. Ashley has many titles. She works as the area director for Mission Increase, which basically a small portion of her role is coaching and training nonprofit um leaders into how to develop their nonprofits.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

That's a large portion of her role, large portion of her role.

SPEAKER_06 6:00

Well, she does she does a lot of stuff, right? So, in your opinion, this is the question for you, Ashley, right off the gate, and it'll hopefully launch us into a good discussion. What is one trait? Because uh there's many traits and values.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Can I just say this too before you ask the question? Today you're gonna help us reclaim masculinity.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Oh right, let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

This is your assignment today. You're gonna help us redefine, reclaim. And um, I think part of what you do great before Shane asked the question is that you actually embody like strong feminism too, in a way that like you're not trying to prove something. So having you here to me is like the perfect because when we were talking about like the next guest, I said a healthy man makes space for women at the table. Yeah, right? Yeah, she's like, amen. Uh because uh, and I was thinking this morning when I woke up because I want her to answer this question, but I just want to seed this real quick because like um most insecurity manifests in control. And so we're gonna talk about that. But um you like you are so strong and so easy to work with and so professional and so clear and such a truth teller. There's so much you say and do that I think is good for us and to create space. A lot of men couldn't sit at a table with a woman like this in harmony and coexist without being threatened. Right because she is a five foot one wrecking ball.

SPEAKER_04 7:30

Thank you for that one inch thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Five foot-one wrecking ball. If you've ever sat in a meeting with her, she's gonna ask you direct confrontational questions. She's done it to me many times, yeah, and uh it's gonna shred you. Yeah, there's some times where I'm like, I just want to send someone to their office so they can come back and just like have a dose of reality. Yeah, you'll be going to her office soon, so I would be careful. Me? Yeah, you get in there, yeah, it's a it's a tough place to be. But Ashley's office before it's a good thing. But go ahead. So this is why she's here. So I want to preface this as Shane and I were talking, like from my perspective. Like, my I know Shane has some other thoughts for this episode too, and so it's a collaboration, but I feel like for me, number one, just having strong women at the table is important for healthy masculinity. Like, we're not intimidated, we're not insecure, we're like, we're not controlling it. I don't have to prove something, I don't have to fear something. Like, we're we're okay, we exist together. There's like we're we're fish in the sea, swimming together.

SPEAKER_06 8:30

It's all good. Yeah, you could say you could probably argue that if feminism didn't exist, does masculinity exist? That's what I'm saying. Healthy feminism, right? Yeah, yeah. So, and I agree with everything that you said about Ashley. She's got some fiery eyes sometimes. You know, it scares you. Uh, in your opinion, Ashley, what is one trait, value, discipline that a healthy man has or does? You want me to read it again?

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Yeah, go ahead and read that one again. That's a big question.

SPEAKER_06 9:01

In your opinion, right? Because sometimes this is subjective. What is one trait value discipline that a healthy man has or does?

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Ownership.

SPEAKER_06 9:13

What is it? Ownership. Ownership. Okay, elaborate on this. What does ownership look like? You know, just so people out there they go like they're like me, they're like ownership. I own a car, I own a house, the things that I own, right? Like what is ownership like, what does that entail?

SPEAKER_04 9:30

Responsibility.

SPEAKER_06 9:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:32

Ownership for their actions, ownership for their emotions, ownership for the environment that they set in their families. Ownership is um I love that.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Environmental ownership.

SPEAKER_04 9:46

Yes. Yeah, so just like ownership, just full-on like owning your responsibility as a man, owning the the um spaces in your life that you have leadership in, owning, I think owning like emotional um maturity, yeah, owning um humility, and just owning own ownership.

SPEAKER_06 10:08

What's so funny is we do a Bible study Tuesdays, right? We're just talking about this, and we literally came out of the story of Abram having Ishmael. And when all the drama happens, Abram goes, You deal with it. It's your it's your servant. And we literally just got through having a conversation about one of the things that Abram could have done, just like Adam could have done, was take ownership of the situation. And could that have played out a little differently? Yeah, if you would have handled that a little differently, as opposed to like, you I create I helped create the mistake, yeah, yeah, and I take no responsibility in it, you take care of it, yeah. Right? Like, so it's interesting that we just talked about that.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

And what's interesting about this, Ashley and I were talking last night. Most of what we would say a healthy man would be, we could also say a healthy woman could be. Yes. So when we're talking about ownership, you need to kill that thing. Kill that is kill it. There you go. Another clap, man. No, we're always supposed to do one clap. So most of almost I would say all of what we could say a healthy man would be would be also relevant and valid to become a healthy woman. Yeah. This thing, whatever this is, we're gonna have to maybe get out of that. Yeah. Are we gonna survive? Where's it at?

SPEAKER_04 11:18

We're gonna survive.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Oh, you forgot.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

All right, nope, nope. It died.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

There you go. It died. Hey, what's that?

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Hey, we got it.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Persistence. Persistence. Okay, yeah. Um, so I agree with you. Yeah, I agree with you 100%. All I'm saying is like taking ownership of your emotional health, your environmental health, yeah, over the I mean, I'm just gonna say ecosystems that you live and serve in and stuff like men can cast a heavy shadow, but so can women. Yes. Yes, you know, so there's tension both ways. I was thinking this, uh, 1 Corinthians 11, it says that a man not to have should not have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God, but the woman is the glory of man. So if we are the glory of God and the woman is the glory of man, how do the women around us feel? Yes, not even just how they're talking about environmental, environmental control. How are they flourishing? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:14

How do they look?

SPEAKER_00 12:15

How do they look? Do they look oppressed? Yeah, do they look strong? Yeah. I that's what I was uh her and I were talking, and I'm like, it's uh for anyone who's in my inner tribe circle or whatever, my personal table is filled with very strong women. Think about Shanna, think about Ashley, you think about Jemmy, you think about Mariah, you think about Mika, you think about uh just all the women in our circle. And um I I'm not intimidated by strong women. I actually celebrate strong women and I bring them to the table. And um, I think that like insecure men are just afraid of that sometimes. And I don't have any conflict. Like Ashley and I, we lead together and there's a culture of honor. Yeah, right. Shannon and I were married. We have a household where there's a culture of honor. Yeah. Um we don't have discussions about who's gonna submit to who. We're even talking about like who's under who last night. It's like it's such weird language that we never use. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

Yeah. Well, I think that, you know, as well, like we were kind of going into the like anything that we're talking about today and talking about like what's a healthy man, there's so much of that that also can be translated to like what is a healthy woman. You know, that like the some so much of this that we'll talk about today isn't just about like what makes a healthy man, it's also the same characteristics all throughout scripture. Like I have a really hard time sometimes, even within the church context of like men's and women's ministry, just simply because when you really look at scripture, like I don't see a big difference. And like like I think God calls us both they're related to the same thing, the same issue. Yeah, yeah. So it's like we're both called to the same thing, like there isn't a difference in the kingdom, and so I think like whatever we we say today, really, it's like you can say also for women, you know, you know, and I'm I'm glad that's a good idea. So ownership also for women, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:04

Absolutely, because and you could even speak to the the household in general, you know, the man can be you could be as healthy as you can, but if the woman's not healthy, it works both ways. The environment can be a hundred percent, yeah. But talking just specifically to men today, it's like, what do you think that it it is in us that causes this uh insecurity when it comes specifically to women? Do you think it's just a religious thing? Or do you think it's just a human like outside of the religious walls? Because you see this, it's not just Christian men that can be like this.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

It's men yeah, that that that's that's the point. That's a great point. Because I was gonna say most men, and you can speak to the insecurity, I'll just to comment. Most men that are insecure in relationship with women are usually insecure in relationship with others, and they're not just controlling women, they're controlling other co-workers, they're controlling family members, they're controlling conversations, they're my they're they're in too much in control and everything. And it's like the spirit of insecurity, it can be projected on women, but really it's internal and it's on everything.

SPEAKER_06 15:05

Yeah. What does that look like for an example? Like in a work, if you're gonna work out an example of like, you know, my wife comes in and uh, you know, an insecure man cutting her voice down, like what is that any examples come to mind on like what we see in the day-to-day life? Just for a guy out there that may go, like, you know, I do this, but I don't really see that as an insecurity. That's just me being a man, you know what I mean? Like, um saying, like, is that the way that we disagree? Like, you know, being able to go, like, oh, my wife, you know, we have this decision coming up, and this is just an example. My wife has a voice on it. Like, is my insecurity to say, hey, like, no, like you need to get in line with me, like her tra you know, uh taking the voice from her, not listening, things of that nature, like just trying to think of some examples that come to mind to paint a picture of the fruit.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

I mean, I think you can look at like you can start looking at the fruit, like what Brad was saying. If you look around the women in your life and you see uh insecure women frightened, don't have safety, they had don't have a foundation, they're not operating in their gifts, they're not like that. That's one indicator that it's like, oh, okay, there might be something off. But part of it, it's like what we were saying, it's it's control. I think when you start to see a ton of control, or you need to control the situation, and they're not allowed to have like my choice is the end all be all. And so, yes, you might disagree with me, but you know what, I'm the head of this family, and so this is what I say, this is what we're gonna do. Like controlling is I think part of it. Um, domination, it's like that's where it's like you're dominating every single everything in your life, you're don't you're dominating the path, you're dominating the choices. I think that's where we can see some pressure.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Well, in the beginning, and so stick on that word, domination. What's the difference between domination and dominion? And who are we supposed to be in dominion over? Yeah, yeah. Were we ever supposed to be in dominion over Eve? No, no, he actually created us to be in dominion over the earth, right? Together together. Yeah, um, and so can I press on that a little bit? Yeah, okay. So, what in the first word, when God created Adam, or he gave him, he said, it's not good for you to be alone. Yeah, why? Yeah, why would he first say, just as a thought, like why would it not be good for a man to be alone?

SPEAKER_06 17:24

Well, I mean, he tried every they tried other things and it didn't work out for him, right? In relationship is part of our DNA. 100%.

SPEAKER_04 17:32

Well, I think we're also made in the image of God, right? And so man is made in the image of God. God doesn't, he created man for a reason he doesn't want to be alone. Like being in community with somebody and in relationship is it's like part of who we are. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Let me direct this a certain way. So just because I'm setting this up a little bit because there's a lot here. Um, so when he said it's not good for you to be alone, God had knowledge that there were other things happening on the earth. And in order to for Adam to fulfill his assignment and taking dominion over the earth and over creation, God knew that Adam couldn't do it by Hisself. Yeah. So he said, I'm gonna create a helper. Yeah. Yes. In English, we have taken this word helper to mean like, I'm gonna create someone who's gonna pack your lunch for you. Yeah, help who's gonna who's gonna make your sandwiches, who's going to do your laundry, who's going to basically be like mom, but also like handmade. Yeah, you know, like this.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

Like a lesser version.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

A lesser version. The word helper is actually easier in Hebrew, and it means to support and give aid. Uh, the phrase in Hebrew is easier, and I'm gonna mess this up as kinegdo, but it means uh to support and help, but it's in like as and standing face to face with. This is what this means. Check this out. This is so cool. This I I don't have the exact amount of times, but I'll say the most used context of this word is actually in reference to God's help to us.

SPEAKER_06 19:04

Yeah, Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Yes, yes, pretty powerful help. Yeah, pretty powerful help, right? So, does that so the fact that it's used, this exact word and phrase is used for God's help. Does that diminish who God is? No. Okay, so let's start there. Yeah, first mention, right? Does that diminish who he is or what he is or what he can or can't do, or how his partnership works with us? No, right. So being a helper is not a lesser exactly, a lesser title. The place where it's used is mostly in a military context. Okay. So in rescue and warfare, deliverance, protection, and reinforcement. Uh, I can go through it, but it's like Exodus 18, 4, just so you can have some scripture, because I think we need some scripture, and then we can dive into all this. But like um, the God of my father, father was my help, and he delivered me from the sword of Pharaoh. Yeah. Our soul waves for the Lord, he is our help and our shield.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

I will lift up my eyes to the mountain where my help comes from. Same word. Um, nobody would say that God is insubordinate as a military support when he sends angels to come and help you win a battle. Right. Right?

SPEAKER_04 20:15

Uh it's critical help. Like you know, critical help.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

So, what was happening in Adam that wasn't good for him to be alone? Do you know that the earth was filled with demons? Fallen angels, cosmic beings that were inheriting the nations and deceiving the world, and God wanted to take back humanity. He's like, I need you to be supported so that I can go re-inherit creation that fell under the deception of Lucifer.

unknown 20:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

There was a spiritual war happening. Yeah, it's a warfare term.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

And we've diminished it because what we want is the the thing is we have an internal insecurity, which is probably like I think a symptom of us not being okay with who we are and our identity.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

And this breaks it open for me. This breaks open the conversation. I know that there's some pieces on healthy men and addiction we're gonna get into, but my point is like just even breaking down, a lot of people don't even know what their Bible actually says in the original language to be able to understand how to interpret these things. We go like you're my helper, so therefore you're here to help me. It's my vision, and I do what I do. Uh, I will say that there's an unhealthy side of feminism that where they come and like Shanna honors me in the same way I honor her. Ashley honors me in the same way I honor her. There's times where she'll come and voice something, she has freedom to voice anything. Yeah, there's also times where I say, I don't think we're doing that. You know, and it's very simple. We're okay. And then uh there's times though where she's like, hey, I don't think you should do this. And I'm like, you're right. Yeah, we should go that direction.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

But um But that only like that happens too whenever you have healthy leadership. So when you have a healthy man who leads in the capacity that creates safety. And creates creates that environment which is healthy, then it makes submission. It makes those like healthy feminism. It doesn't feel gross. It doesn't feel forced. Yeah, it doesn't feel like submission. It doesn't, it feels like partnership.

SPEAKER_06 22:18

Yeah. So and then too, I want to make a clarity as well as like sometimes we can, because I'm thinking about all the women out there that are like, I love to make sandwiches and I love to clean, like that's my that's what I love to do. Like as far as like there's other women out there that we we basically put like weak as what you do, as opposed to like the strength of a woman isn't what she does, it's who she is, right? So no matter if you're a CEO or if you're a stay-at-home mom, like you're it's we'd kind of define that weak strength straight, yeah, or uh trait as like as what a woman does, as opposed to like the healthy part, is like no matter what you want to do, like telling my wife, like, you want to stay home? That's fine. Awesome, I support you. You want to go home and start a business. Like my wife is, you know, had a few like ideas and adventures that she's wanted to do. And I'm like, okay, well, let's do that. I'll support I can make you a graphic or I can go run errands or we'll do whatever. It's like that supporting to where it's like no matter what it is that the woman wants to do, I support.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

This is not diminishing a household role at all. In fact, it's empowering your identity to do what you need to do. And as far as like in a healthy man-woman relationship, like Shanna was a stay-at-home mom for a long time because we didn't want someone else discipling our kids when we were able to. Not everybody's able to. But Ashley's dynamic. Ashley has to work as a single mom. She has to work and she has to make a lot of money, so she has to have a career because no one's coming to save her. Right. So she has to, in this season, do a lot of stuff that she probably wouldn't love to do in another season. But uh, if you have the ability to stay home, if that's what the Holy Spirit's telling you to do, do it. Yeah, 100%. Um, I don't think the the roles, like to me, it's yeah, for sure. Like, do not neglect your children. Who does that? Yeah, you know, who who who neglects their spouse? Yeah, like who unhealthy people. Unhealthy people, there you go. Like, so like the role, the nothing I say about empowering women and the military role of a helper and how this is meant to aid in warfare and purpose and mission and assignment. None of that diminishes the household responsibility to create a sanctuary.

SPEAKER_06 24:27

Yeah. Yeah. And the reason why I bring that up is because some people we see we only see that deep. Yeah. We see that the what you do is who you are deep, as opposed to like, no, that like that's why bringing up that that that point is like there's to look at this in a healthy perspective, like knowing your wife, like a good pulse for like if you've if maybe you feel like you failed in this discussion that we're talking about at home, to be able to go, like, maybe I'm gonna start a conversation with my wife and and maybe start asking questions like, do you feel heard? Do you feel like you're supported by me? Do you feel like be ready for that? Yeah, but I mean, but really, like that to me goes like, hey, like I might even go home and do this and be like, Krista, do you do you feel like I, you know, is there any areas where you don't feel heard or you feel diminished or you feel boxed into a role that's maybe not yours?

SPEAKER_04 25:13

And and that's I think a better question could be, could be is hey, do you feel like you're working and fully in the purpose that God has for you? Do you feel like you're you're in the fullness of what God has for you in your life? Do you is that and then you can work from like there if the answer is like, oh man, I feel like I'm not in the purpose that God has for me. And then start asking questions of like, well, why? Like, what are the symptoms of what's happening in the environment that I'm cultivating as a man of the house, in which you're not able to step into that? Are there areas? Because it's like really it's all what like even as we're talking, it's like I always goes back to identity. And so, even like with identity in a man, it's like what that's where we see the insecurities, we see the unhealthy symptoms of things that we do, not who we are, because we have a skewed sense of identity of who we are women, we have unhealthy feminism because we really don't know our true identity in Christ, and so like taking it back to what is our identity truly, and and Jesus. And the thing is, we're beloved, he loves us a lot.

SPEAKER_06 26:22

That's good. And if he doesn't take our free will, why do we feel like we can take a woman's for sure? You know what I mean? Or or vice versa. Like, why do we think we can impinge on that? We lay our down our will.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:34

It says that we lay down our lives for those that we love, right? Or that's there's no greater love, rather. That leads me into one of the questions, Brad, that you put on here. What is a and this could be both ways. So it's stated this. What does an unhealthy feminism, what is unhealthy feminism and masculinity look like?

SPEAKER_00 26:52

I think we talked about it a lot. So we that's kind of already in the subject, but we talked about it with um domination and security, these kind of things. Um, you know, and it's it's hard because like, and I just want to full disclosure, like my household, we're not perfect in alignment on everything. Me and Shanna butt heads. Like we uh Ashley and I, we have issues sometimes, like we work through it, like in leadership. Uh she's always right, Shanna's always right, Jemmy's always right, our women are always right. Adrian was just on you last week.

SPEAKER_06 27:26

That is not he's like, show me the verse, show me the Bible verse.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

No, but like um, I don't know, like the for me, I don't think about it a lot. I don't think about my own position because I've died.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

I don't pride myself in being a pastor, I don't pride myself in being a professional or being these certain things. I don't love like pictures of myself on walls so that I can go, wow, I really accomplished something. Like for me. But you love people and you love Jesus. And like in that, like you want to lead like Jesus, and he made space for people. You know, Jesus, if in Judaism, when Jesus showed up, it was the most oppressive religion on earth for women. Yeah. And he came and he actually entrusted women and invited invited women in, included them in the mission, and then entrusted them with the responsibility within the mission.

SPEAKER_04 28:21

Yeah, he elevated them in a context when culturally women were marginalized and he elevated women. You can look in like what is it? Um Bethany. No, it's not Bethany, it was at Bethany, it's Mary at Bethany, right? It's like she's sitting at the feet of Jesus as a disciple, which that position really is not, is was for a man, it wasn't for a woman. And Jesus actually defends her right of being there. And so, like, we see, I mean, you can there's so many biblical stories of where like Jesus has been in the past.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

She's honoring Jesus. Yeah, so you see healthy feminism and healthy masculinity, it's making space for each other, and like there's no competition between the two.

SPEAKER_04 29:01

Yes, that's that's something I was definitely like kind of praying through and thinking whenever we were talking about this this topic, is it's like there isn't competition. And I think that's whenever you start to see unhealthy feminism in in my experience is you start to feel you start to see competition where it's like a woman has to come in and and domination. So now it's like we have we we need to come in, we need to dominate the situation, we need to be self-reliant, we need to not rely on anybody and have any type of you know answer to anybody, and we also need to control the situation and we need to um was the word that I was just using. Yeah, I've totally blanked on that one.

SPEAKER_06 29:40

Well, what I'm picturing too is like this could happen a lot in marriages where uh man wants to control so he gets louder, the woman wants to be heard so she gets louder, and then if you have a a family dynamic where everybody's yelling at each other all the time, the answer to your problem is probably needing to die to yourself and and get some humility as opposed to getting louder. So it's like recognize that your wife is wanting to be heard and you yelling is now causing her to yell as opposed to going like all my dead wife does is we just yell all the time because we just just just disagree. Well, this is where when Jesus says the the role of a man is to die just like Jesus did for the church, right? So if you have that dynamic at home, the issue isn't get more loud or get more right, it's no take the low road, humble yourself, and really be like look at look at what could be going on.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

And I want to and I want to defend this too because a little bit I was just thinking there's probably so there's some guys who read their Bible a lot right now who are have Bible verses popping in their heads about like, and this was something you had asked, like, where's this at in the Bible? And if we can merge those two ideas and talk through it, but like the Bible says some really wild things about women speaking and certain things, right? So, like when you look at like what does a healthy man, healthy woman look like, like some of this could be rooted even in like maybe wrong teaching that has developed like a fear in them to like think they have to actually guard against a certain thing because they don't fully understand how to exegete a Bible passage.

SPEAKER_04 31:22

Well, on that one, like that's this particular Bible passage, which is like women shouldn't speak up in church, shouldn't be. Yeah, so I actually have that.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Can I read that and then you can speak? Say what you want to say about that, set it up.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

Yeah, it's just it's it's like we take that one, which one you can look all throughout scripture and other places in which God elevates women and calls them in Phoebe. Like, are we just gonna ignore her in the Bible? Like she was a full, like it's there's so many other things. So it's like you use this one part of scripture that says this. Well, really, what it is is that was happening in the context is like women were being idolized. And so I think that's one thing where we get into unhealthy feminism and unhealthy masculinity is where we end up where men have now idolized women. And so they take their they've their feelings, their emotions, what they what they feel in a moment becomes the biggest thing in the room. And they like they'll they'll lay down their callings, they'll drop jobs, they'll do all kinds of things because their women, their their spouse or their significant other is feeling a certain thing, and so they've idolized women as well, which I think is something that we I mean, this was happening back in scripture and it's still happening now. So this is something we have to guard about. And I think that's really what that scripture was about was guard yourselves because you guys have a tendency of making idols out of women.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

Yeah, well, and uh that's so good because I think that's like for me, I will. I mean, Shanna can have her moments. I have my moments, you have your moments, we all have our moments, like bad moments, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:53

Okay, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Like we're emotionally, we're not just not tracking, yeah. Or we're operating in maybe fear or just something. I don't make decisions in those moments. Yeah, I try my best not to make phone calls that will affect people's lives. I try to like in those moments, I'll actually like kind of disappear for 12 hours. And I'll go, like, this is just not a healthy day for me to make a life-changing choice. Like, I'm not changing jobs, I'm not um moving, I'm not getting involved, making a big commitment and a big thing. There's just like mentally, I'm just not there. So the same thing with like you're saying, like, women who are in and out of it emotionally. It's like men can be there too. Yeah, it's our job to let the word of God and the Holy Spirit define our mission and define our health and define our culture. It's not about the emotions either way.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

You know, and a lot of men, they're like, oh man, she's crazy. Like, so I gotta respond. Like, no, you don't. Maybe you just say, I hear you. Yeah, I hear you, and really listen. Yeah, I know I know I know this is painful. I'm sorry. I can I can see. I know the thing I did really affected you. Yeah. I know, I know, I know that that had an effect, and um I can't fix that. No, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I just lost my job. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do, but I'm gonna figure it out. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, do you understand what I'm saying? Like, you don't know.

SPEAKER_04 34:10

Oh, that's ownership. All those things that you just said, that is ownership. Like I'm owning that something happened. I'm owning that I have the responsibility of cultivating the environment that we're in. So like even what you're saying is you go away, it's because you are you have you're a healthy man who says, Okay, I understand that as a man I hold a responsibility and I steward something in my family, which is that I create the environment that we that we are in, of whether my family flourishes or they don't. And so if I'm in an unhealthy spot, which we all have found ourselves in, to not put that environment and put that and project that onto your to your family.

SPEAKER_06 34:48

And that's a discipline and a laying down of yourself because emotions or things that can trigger emotions could be real. You could have a stressful day at work, you could have a job that you hate, your marriage could not be in the perfect place that you want it, your kids could be out of control and crazy. But I think what we're talking about is emotional health here. So maybe stay on this. We just read with uh we just had a little bit of a Don't let me forget to get too long aside. We just had a group of guys this last week when we were talking about in in Peter, where it's talking about even if like submitting to authority and even if they're unruly and they treat you poorly, right? So we got in this discussion of like the person who Jesus was, because it refers to that where he was beaten, he was, you know, persecuted and all these things, and he didn't respond to it. Yeah, he responded like Jesus responded. So we were talking about that, and as far as like the emotional health as men, like it's our job. It's it's not for a lack of the world throwing things at you like we just talked about. It's like how do we get to the place to where we can emotionally respond instead of react in in a healthy way, to where it's like you said, you you know, you leave for 12 hours. I just pictured like that. I think I don't leave the house.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

I'm saying like minimum, I don't engage in the thing that's there's tension, I don't engage in it. And all what I do instead is I replace it with like, let's cook a tri-tip. Like, let me go to the movies, like let's Hollis, we're gonna go get ice cream tonight. Yeah, like like I do something that's not that right. You don't leave. Right. I don't leave. I'm not abandoning my family. Like it's all peace out, I'm out of here. No, what I do is put my phone on notifications on silence sometimes. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 36:22

Yeah. Well, I think that's good too that we say that because I think that we can get there. That's sometimes an unhealthy behavior is like, oh, something's happening in the dynamic of my family and I don't like it. It's putting up something unhealthy in me. I could feel it. That's good that you will recognize it. But then what ends up happening is now I'm gonna disengage. Now I'm gonna actually leave. So that's many times what happens. They leave, they go to the bar, or they go and hang out and play golf with their friends instead of actually dealing with what's happening at home. Or what they're doing is they are um they're punishing. So what happens is like, oh, I'm feeling something that I don't like, and so now I'm gonna do the silent treatment, you know, type of thing. So it's like not doing that and being in it and just not addressing whenever you're in an unhealthy space because that's not a good thing, but not running and hiding.

SPEAKER_06 37:09

Yes, I'm not saying running and hiding. Yeah, you need to go run and hide in your prayer closet. Yes, is what you need to do. Because they're there are different moments, like just the other day. We uh were cooking pancakes in the morning. Saturday, it's all great. You know, I hadn't done my devotions, hadn't had my coffee yet, and I get some the water from our water thing to put in the pancake battery, and Chrissa turns around, she goes, You didn't use that thing, did you? And I said, What do you mean? I it was on the water thing. Like she's like, they were kids were using that for the sand outside yesterday. I said, Well, why did they put the sand thing on the water thing that's clean? And I had just made this whole thing a pancake batter, and I looked at my son, and my wife is like, Chris is like looking at Parker, she's like, Why did you do that? And I just it all of a sudden the kitchen got chaotic, and I felt like my face getting red, and I was like, I'm gonna need to take a minute. I literally got in my truck and I went like I had to like. Well, because the uh there was the guys down here needed some stuff for the to finish the offices, so I took that opportunity to go like I need to leave this high stress situation for a moment. I haven't even had a chance to read my Bible yet, you know what I mean? But like, so there's like different spaces, right? To make light of your situation. I don't do that often. It's the real, right? Where the dad's driving and everybody's arguing in the car and they're going like 25, and he just takes a seatbelt off and opens the door and dips out because it's such a stress. He can't get away from the situation fast enough. But like what we're alluding to is like the emotional health that you have for me equates to how much I'm in Jesus' presence and how much I'm filled up with him, because then I can respond in the moment emotionally healthy. Let me say, let me say this too.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

Because to speak into that, like there's another piece that that happened that helped set it off. Yeah. Margins. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Margins, very simple because if you would have gotten up a little bit earlier, gotten in your Bible, and been prepared before you made pancakes, right? Then you wouldn't have been overly stressed because you would have been adequately spiritually prepared to engage in the sand discussion.

SPEAKER_06 39:18

And then you could say, like, oh, you didn't do your devotions for one day, you're spiritually unhinged because you missed one morning. Like, yeah, probably a lot going on in this situation. I'm being vulnerable right now. But it was seriously, I was actually proud of myself because I was like, hmm, I could start pointing some fingers and say some things right now. Like, how dare you, Parker, put the sand thing where the clean water goes. And now I used it, wasted all this pancake veteran. I said, I'm gonna need it, I'm gonna need it. I'm gonna make it out.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

I think that I think that's good. I um are there anything else that happens in your house that I can be aware of so that I can help your family?

SPEAKER_06 40:01

There's not a lot of whoa. No, no, no. You're like ready to make some pancakes.

SPEAKER_05 40:07

And pancake makes it cheap. Like it was not even like that exploding.

SPEAKER_06 40:12

It was not about the pancake. All the time and the luck. Like it was like that morning where you're like, oh man, the wheels are greasy, and all that stuff and the time, and then it's like you just made this whole thing a pancake batter, and you just got told that there could be sand in there, and you go like, margins, margins, and then I got another one for you.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Food noise. We can handle that with peptides now. Let's get it.

SPEAKER_06 40:41

Now that I feel completely judged about sharing my inside live, just so you know. You're not the only one. I won't tell my stories. Oh man, let me tell you, emotional responses in my house. I've I'm getting a lot better at those over the last 10 years. Yeah. Progressive.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

We're gonna bring Chris on to ask her about ask her.

SPEAKER_06 41:00

She'll like when Dylan was on, she's like, Do you think any other man acts like you when you're frustrated and when you're trying to do a house project? And I'm like, I can't believe you're telling me this right now. In the midst of me being frustrated, like the trigger of what are we doing? You know what I mean? And then you know, Dylan walked me off the ledge and so I think the woman apparently can't speak in-house. She can speak in-house, yes. And she loves to just, you know, speak at the right, she's so witty, she's so funny. I love her so much. She's so great.

SPEAKER_05 41:29

What's happening to August? What's happening?

SPEAKER_06 41:31

I really do love her. Just in case she ever watched, I wanted to let her know how much I loved her.

SPEAKER_05 41:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Okay, let's talk about your wear like what's going on right now. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

I'm so sorry, baby.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

No, she's kidding me. Goodness, all right. So, 1 Corinthians 14, it says women are to keep silent in church. That's a real scripture. Yeah. The question you have to ask is like, is that situational counseling or a statement of doctrine? Because the there are other parts in 1 Corinthians 14 where he tells you not to speak in a tongue. Does that mean you should never speak in a tongue? He tells you not to prophesy out of order. Does that mean you should never prophesy in spontaneity? Does this mean that Jesus was saying it actually says that you should uh in verse 35 of 14 it says that they if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home, for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. So knowing this, knowing that Jesus protected the vulnerable and defended the weak and promoted the least of these and said this is where the kingdom of God is, do you think that Jesus would send an Afghanistan woman to go ask her Muslim husband for Christian advice?

SPEAKER_06 42:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

No, right? So, in context, could you drop this one portion of scripture in Iran and potentially like have a wife say you can't learn from your pastor in the underground church of the Middle East, you must go to your Muslim husband. How does this apply? How does that work? Yeah, how does this apply? So if we take it all literal, if we say this is a literal application, then the literal application of this means that women in the the gospel cannot get to women in the Middle East because their husbands would cut it off, cut it off, cut it off. The fact that they would even tell their husbands they're curious could mean sexual abuse or murder or worse. They could be um it could be bad. Now then the next question is this would Jesus contradict his own words? No, right? So what did Jesus say in Mark 16? He said to Mary, when both his mom and Mary were waiting at the tomb, he said, Don't be amazed, you're looking for Jesus. The angel said, You're looking for Jesus of Nazarene, he's been crucified. He is risen and he is not here. Behold, the place where they this is the place where he laid them. No, here is the place where they laid him. But I tell you, Mary, go and tell his disciples ahead of you that there you will see him just as he has said. He entrusted the gospel to Mary to go speak to the men. Why wouldn't he have spoken to Peter himself if he was worried about contradictions? Why wouldn't he have just uh cut out the middleman, went to the disciples on his own? Because I think most of us as students of logic would say so resurrected Jesus can do the impossible. So if he appears to someone, there's more of a reason behind it. Yeah. So if he appears to somebody, he meant to appear to him. It wasn't like random, wasn't like spawning in a video game. He's like, I happen to land in front of Mary. Like he wasn't out of control, floating in the middle ground. And then all of a sudden he appeared in front of Mary. He's like, Well, since I got you, go tell the men because I can't get there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Because later he goes and convenience thing. Yeah, he goes and appears to the men. Right. So um, why number one, like, why would Jesus promote and put the gospel in the mouth of not just Mary? Let's just say the woman at the well.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Who actually evangelized the entire region of Samaria? Yeah. Who became the first evangelist in Samaria? Uh some say that Mary is like the apostle to the apostles. She was, what is apostle? Apostle, let's, I'm not saying like, okay, so don't crucify me. I'm not saying one of the twelve apostles. I'm saying the word apostle means sent one. She was sent by God to go preach to the men. Yeah. About the resurrection. She was first entrusted with the gospel by God to go preach to the men. Therefore, she's a sent one.

SPEAKER_06 45:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

That's apostle. Um maybe it's because he also doesn't care about the optics and the word honor, this is associated in First Peter because you had mentioned weakness, like the weakness of women, and you had mentioned that in our text too. That word it says that could you please clarify what you're alluding to?

SPEAKER_06 46:04

So because the way you said that right now, you're like, because you'd also talked about the scripture, that's the same.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

The scripture that's first Peter 3 7. We're just trying to figure out the verses. Gotcha. And then you guys can take this. But um, it says, Husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, as someone who is weaker, since she's a woman, and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered. This word weaker, every other place it's used, is of physical limitations. It also is weaker conscience. And it says because of this, meaning they're they're vulnerable. But it doesn't mean that if they're vulnerable, that they should be disinherited as an heir, a fellow heir in life. Right. So Jesus' response to a woman's vulnerability is to show her honor as a fellow heir of life. This is what he did to Mary.

SPEAKER_06 47:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

See what I'm saying? So like he responded to this in a healthy way.

SPEAKER_06 47:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

He said, so because she is weaker, but her weakness, what's interesting about this is her weakness actually led her to the tomb when all the other men fled.

SPEAKER_06 47:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

So her weakness actually pulled her to the altar, and that's the place where Jesus was at.

SPEAKER_06 47:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

And so he said, I see your weakness. And so, in your weakness, so like in your vulnerability, I'm going to include you. I'm going to invite you, include you, and empower you as a fellow heir of life. You are co-laboring with me. You're a joint heir in the household of God. He called her in because Jesus, he breaks the curse.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

You can't still have a curse. So it was important for Jesus to elevate women where there was no more curse. The curse was that a woman was going to have these certain, this diminished role, right? Yeah. It said, her desire will be for man, but he will rule over her. Yeah. Right? And there's all this confusion over this. Jesus says, I'm severing this curse. All that came after the curse. So he says, in my world, he says, um, there's equality in the sense of we are made in God's image. We have a universal call to the Great Commission to pray and see heaven come to earth. There's distinction in how we are made in our makeup. And that's where the honor comes in. And this is what Jesus did. So when he says, and also like being silent in a church, it's like, well, I'm pretty sure like most churches, even fundamental churches that believe this uh this women can't speak in church thing, I'm pretty sure your women are speaking in the doors of the building. Yeah. How little do we get? Yeah, exactly. You know what I'm saying? But it's really like what he does is he actually honors her as a fellow heir. Yes. And he pulls her into the calling of joint uh leadership in the kingdom of life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:02

Well, I think that's where you see healthy masculinity or you see a healthy man, is whenever you start to see what we kind of talked about earlier, which is the women around you. Are you creating an environment in which women flourish, where they actually are treated as heirs? Heirs, yes. As they as are they able to step into the fullness of what God has for them. God placed specific talents and treasures and purpose in them from the moment that they were before they were born. He already predestined them for things.

SPEAKER_03 49:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:30

And so are you a man who creates an environment that they are able to fully flourish and be in that space?

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Yeah. That's true.

SPEAKER_04 49:39

As heirs, not a lesser than.

SPEAKER_06 49:41

Yeah, no devaluation.

SPEAKER_04 49:42

As a full heir.

SPEAKER_06 49:43

Yeah. One of the things that you said, just to kind of put a full circle with exegeting scripture, because you use that word. And so for a lot of guys that will go back, because that's our what we're kind of, hopefully, every podcast, no matter what we're saying, it's not opinion. We're basing it off of the word. We're basing it off of Jesus. So when you read these things, if you have a difficulty with that, what we're talking about is like we've learned over the years of studying the Bible that there are things that are black and white, right? Jesus died for all men's sins, right? And then there's things that were cultural and things that you need to take into context. This is important when reading your Bible. And then this whole idea of exegeting or this truth in exegeting is a lot of people, we even see Jesus speak to the Pharisees with this, is we we love to frame in things as a prison, the word. So like they're like, Why does your disciples like not obey the Sabbath? And Jesus goes, You've taken something that I meant for good and actually made it a prison. Right? So you've missed you've missed the point. We still do this. So like when we're reading scripture, exegeting means we don't form a theology based on one scripture, we actually take the entirety of the Bible, the character of God, the character of Jesus, which is the character of God, and we form our belief off of the entirety as opposed to one scripture.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

Yes. But what I'll say is this um the situational counseling, if you've hung hung with us, get ready. We're breaking the fourth wall, is that what it's called? Yeah, um I could sit with one couple in counseling and see a problem and go, like, you need to chill and let him be a man. You need to chill, like relax. You don't always have to have an opinion on everything. Actually, like he's in your shadow right now, and we need him to step into his own identity. And then I sit down with another couple and I'll go, hey, um, I hear you speaking for your wife a lot. Would it would it be okay if I ask her some questions and get her response too? Is that okay? Yeah. And to two different couples, you might have two different dynamics that are situational, and uh it's not across the board. When it's a statement of doctrine, you're saying like like communion is a statement that reaches beyond gender, reaches beyond the the doctrine of communion, yeah, uh the the truth of prayer, yeah, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, these are things that are not gender unique. Actually, in Acts 2, it says when the Holy Spirit was poured out, it says that your sons and daughters will prophesy. What is prophesy? Speak. Yeah. So why would Paul contradict what was spoken by uh the Holy Spirit or Peter actually in the book of Acts at the outpouring of the Holy Spirit? He wouldn't. What happened was Paul was working with some people.

SPEAKER_04 52:41

Yeah, it was situational. Something was happening in that church.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Something's happening in that church, and he's correcting it. He didn't have to have that same conversation with the Romans. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 52:50

Yeah. Which is this again, just to full circle it. It's important to get involved with some good Bible teachers so that you know your Bible in this way, as opposed to taking it and just running and creating a theology. And um, the Bible's a little deeper than just one thing.

SPEAKER_04 53:08

So well, it's like also using like Jesus as the perfect example of this as far as like what a healthy man is and what we're using scripture. Are you creating an environment where using God's word and you're creating a prison, or are you creating freedom? If I look at Jesus, he created freedom. So good. And so in your home as a man, are you creating a prison or are you creating freedom? And if you're creating a prism, prison, not prison, prison, then you're probably not seeing your family flourish. And you're probably not seeing the people, you know not even just your family. This was also in context in like your business in the world. If you're in the any of the environments that you're in, the ripple effect of your unhealthiness is going to be felt around also the ripple effect of your healthiness will be felt around the people around you. So, what is the environment that you're creating? A prison or freedom.

SPEAKER_06 53:58

Yeah, and then this goes on into your children are more than likely going to be pick up some of the things. So, what are you, you know, sewing into your home life? There's a few questions in closing, Ashley. More on the lighter side. Completely subjective. But in your opinion, what do you think women want out of a man?

SPEAKER_00 54:20

This is goodness. This is good. Okay, help them out right now. There are men out there struggling. They don't know, they can't figure it out. And you're here today.

SPEAKER_06 54:29

We're not all in a Mel Gibson movie, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 54:31

Here, let me get my notes out because I think that I'd made a few notes on this question.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

So there's men out there, they're trying their hardest, and they just can't figure it out because women are like a code that you can't crack.

SPEAKER_04 54:43

We're not that difficult.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

And so men need very clear instructions, like a three-point bullet on how to do this. Okay. Well, I think that's a good thing. And they're coming to you, Ashley. Go.

SPEAKER_04 54:55

One, I'll just preface this, which I'm not the expert. You know, just like there's this is just like maybe my opinion of the thing. It's not like I have this is what all women want. That's not the thing. Also, I'm not perfect in all of this, so there's there's that disclaimer. I love it. Disclaimer. Um, but what do women want in men? Um, I think safety is a big one. So how do they create safety? And that doesn't just mean physical safety, even though that is part of it. Like, there is a physical component there of like we we need strong men again. Like we need, I don't want to be walking down a shady alleyway and feel like I'm the one that's gonna have to defend if something happens. Like, where are the strong men again? Like, let's there is a there is a physicalness to safety, but then there's also the emotional safety in the home. And so, like, how do you how do your how does how does a man's decisions create that safety of trust um in the home? So I think safety is one of them. Can I trust your word? Can I trust your reactions? Can I trust your character in the moments when maybe I'm not around? Like the safety, we need safety. Um, consistency is another one. So not perfection. Um, you know, there's no such thing. And I think this is a little bit where we get off on the feminism part, the unhealthy feminism comes in where we expect men to be perfect. And every single time that there's like a red flag, we're waving it and we're out. It's like red flag. It's like, okay, well, we all have red flags, like we all have these issues. Like, so not perfection, but consistency.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:26

Um, the other one I already said ownership, presence, integrity, spiritual leadership.

SPEAKER_06 56:33

Um, sparks like a whole open thing because like guys, you get this a lot with some of the younger guys. Is how do I lead my significant other like in a spiritual sense? Like, what does that look like for you in a healthy way? Does that look like, hey, uh, actually it's devotion time. You want to come in and you know what I mean? Like you need a picture, right? Of like, hey, uh, hey babe, did you read your word today? Like, is it because you model it?

SPEAKER_00 57:03

Right. Can you open your Bible to Matthew chapter six? We're gonna begin our discussion.

SPEAKER_03 57:08

Like, no preaching, like you cannot preach at your sticking together.

SPEAKER_06 57:13

No, this is what we need help. The whole question was like the next question is we need can you help us figure it out?

SPEAKER_00 57:20

Like we need help because everything's just gonna do it.

SPEAKER_06 57:23

I know it is, it really is. But guys, like that was that's kind of like the funny way about it. But like men kind of go into that sense scene of like, oh, I know how to create order. Uh, we're gonna establish a family devotion time.

SPEAKER_04 57:36

Well, I think it's more like so. Let's it's something we talked about a little bit earlier. And it goes back even to something which you were saying, which is like it's not about what we do, it's about who we are. And so this isn't so spiritual leadership isn't so much about what you do. It's not like saying, okay, every Friday night, my kids don't get to go to the football game, they don't get to do any of their fun stuff, friends. Not that this is our spiritual time, and we're gonna sit around the table and read the word and worship together. No, like that's not what spiritual leadership is, it's not the thing that you do, it's more of who you are.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

Okay, that's a good right there. I love that. I like it so good percentage.

SPEAKER_06 58:14

To give a picture for these guys, spiritual leadership isn't making sure that your spouse or girlfriend or whatever is uh meeting their spiritual quota for the week. It is it is living it out and having it be an overflow into your family.

SPEAKER_04 58:29

It's a model. Are you doing it? So that you model these things in your home. Are you a man who is in your word every day?

SPEAKER_06 58:36

Yeah, because there's probably some guys out there, and vice versa, but we're speaking to men that have wives that maybe they're on a spiritual journey, but their wives aren't. So they're like, be the spiritual leader of your home. They come home and they go, like, hey, I'm the spiritual leader of this household church every Sunday, you'll wear your Sunday best. You know what I mean? So that's why I kind of got into that conversation.

SPEAKER_00 58:57

Speaking into that, having empathy over men, and I as you close or do whatever you want to do, but um empathy for households, it's not specific to men, empathy for households. We all are in different places in life. And I think it took, I mean, the peace that I have in my home now with Shan and I, uh, it took us 20 years to get there. You know, like we we obviously have had a really great home culture. There's been a sanctuary there, but it the lived experience between the two of us, we're now tracking together in ways that we weren't 20 years ago. You know what I mean? So like some are gonna be further along in their faith than others, or some are gonna have be more needy in seasons, or some are gonna be a little more edgy in seasons, or what you know, whatever it is, like just having empathy there, like because I think it's the goal should be spiritual maturity for both of you. Yeah, that's gonna be in different places at different times, yeah. So to the level that you can see yourself and see the moment is to the level you should rise. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Does that make sense? Like, so what I'm trying to say is like you're not, I don't want women thinking I gotta change my men. No, just meet the moment with your level of maturity and allow God to raise up your men to the level of maturity they're at and don't don't push them to be where you are, and don't push them to be where Instagram says they should be. Let these men figure it out. Part of the discovery is how they step into their identity as men. Yeah, you know, so like let them go.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:34

You could nag them to that point or allow them to get there on their own. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:39

So relax. Like, if you know that, like, hey, this is not where we should be as a family, then just model it yourself and trust God.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:46

You know, I think, yeah, and that kind of like, yes, I think that there is, and this might we're I know we're probably at the end of time, so this might get us in a whole other conversation, but it's I I totally agree with all of that, other than whenever you're dealing with circumstances that are not just like the average unhealthy behavior, yes, wait, yes, yeah, with addiction or something, and just closing it because I know Shane had some questions there, but just as I know we gotta go because we got a staff meeting right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

But speak into that. Like, how does a woman go and come front in a toxic relationship?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:16

Yeah, toxic? So I think like let's talk about like what that means. Because like we're talking about unhealthy and un and unhealthiness versus like there, so for me, it's different categories. So, like, stay in a toxic relationship. No, and when we say toxic, I mean like abuse, abuse in any way. So, like what abuse as far as physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, um, drug abuse, verbal abuse, any of the verbal.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:44

Yeah, I'm saying toxic to keep it broad, but more accurately, yes, abuse.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:47

Well, I think you have to be careful with the word toxic because that's where we get into unhealthy feminism, where everything a man does is toxic.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:53

And so that's not the truth. No, you're right. Um, and so really what we're when we're talking about like some of the things that I'm about to say, it's why I'm prefacing it, because you're not, don't be in a in a toxic relationship. God didn't call you to be in a relationship in which you're being abused. And so I think that that is different. It's like, yes, we can be patient and not try to fix a man and let God take care of fixing those parts of him or healing him in certain certain ways and not nagging. However, if your spouse or you're in a relationship with an unhealthy man who's doing these those things that I mentioned, then it's a hard stop. It's not a I gonna sit and power through this and try to figure out how do I help him and how do I how do I fix him? Because you can't, he has to fix himself. And this isn't saying this is where ownership comes in.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

This isn't saying immediately divorce. Yeah. Also, we probably and and to be honest, we have an audience full of men, so we don't we're not talking to a ton of minute women right now.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:54

But I will say this like so it pastorally, just to help with this. If you're unsafe physically, yes, you need to call the police. Yeah, yeah. If uh you have a culture in a home, an environment at home of abuse, neglect, addiction, drug addiction, alcohol addiction, belligerent behavior, um, you don't feel safe. You need to do what you have to do to keep yourself safe. I'm not saying divorce a man at his worst. I'm not saying leave a family right immediately. I'm not saying break it up right immediately. I'm saying get yourself safe so that you can have sound guidance and wisdom and get help. Right. Get yourself safe, number one. And then uh number two, if it's not that extreme, but they these are patterns of immature behavior and you know what we would maybe label like semi-toxic stuff or whatever. You can stay in prayer and then confront in a spirit of prayer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

Yeah. This makes sense. So like you you confront, you go, hey, that really hurt me. And a lot of times what I've seen, I have the best results in confrontation when I don't try to weaponize and like point fingers. I go and I say, Hey, what you said really hurt me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know what you said really hurt me, and what you're doing hurts us. Yeah. And you confront it. A lot of times you have to confront it 10 times for two years, three years before you see change. So you have to realize this. So if you want to stay in it and see change, you can express like this is this bothered me for sure. Yeah. And and let them sort it out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:30

I think you said it best that we're when you're speaking to a broad audience, it's all situational, every situation. But if it's unsafe for anybody out there that thinks it's normal or you can't speak up, I think the the blanketed statement is it's not normal, speak up, get health. And then at that point, there's many different avenues, whether that's counseling or police or things of that nature, yeah, that those things can be addressed by the same.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

Right, that I know we're talking to men, but you just want to say that. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:01

Well, that was one of the things I talked about with Ashley. It's like there's maybe some ladies that are listening because for the sake of their husbands, that because their husbands aren't there yet, that maybe they feel like it's normal or they feel like they're trapped and they can't say something and they're they're wanting to glean. And I felt like that was important to say, like, hey, what you're going through might not be normal, and you be manipulated into that thought process and you need to be released from that.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:26

So are just like men having ownership in that. So if you're if you're hearing it, it's like if you know all these things that we've talked about today, and you're realizing, like, oh, okay, maybe there's some unhealthy stuff going on, or maybe I am engaging in some of that really toxic, like actually toxic things that are affecting my family, then it is okay, well, let's take let's deal with it. Yeah, like let's take ownership of what's happening and let's let's deal with the the issue in a way. And like that's what I wasn't saying, like when I say leave, I'm not saying like go get a divorce. What I mean is like no longer staying in the dysfunction, yeah, and then causing like some type of separation or whatever needs to happen so that you are safe.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:07

And that also that you're the other person is taking it seriously, you know, that men know that whenever we do, when you behave in those ways, it has a ripple effect on all the people that are around you, especially your family. Yeah. And you are, you have it has the power to destroy your family, so take it seriously.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:24

Yeah. And for anybody that may be having questions or need clarification or need kind of some guidance and some help, you can always send us a message, things like that, and we can do our best in directing you in the into the right path. Sound good? Any last thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:41

Take us home. All right.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:43

Thanks for watching, guys. We had a great conversation today about environmental health. Thank you, Ashley, for joining us. We got into some good conversation. We hope is very resourceful and helpful to all of you guys that are listening. We look forward to more and more of these. Again, if you have any questions or clarity, we'd love any messages or comments, and uh, we'd love to get back to you on that. But other than that, I appreciate you both. It's gonna be a great day. Uh, enjoy the rest of your week.