004 - Grant Truesdell (Unleash the Archers)

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We had the honor of sitting down with our long time friend Grant Truesdell of Unleash the Archers and pick his brain of all things guitar and hockey! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Hello, right arm masochist and down picking enthusiasts. We are here with Grant Truesdale. How you doing, brother? Doing good, brother. Awesome. I'm very excited today, everyone, to have Grant here. We have been homies for a long time. Um, it's great to see all the things you've done, all the exciting stuff. And it's been a minute since we got a catch up. So this is sort of us catching up and talking to all of you at the same time. So I'm super excited, man. How how have things been?

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Things have been pretty well, you know, on the music side, obviously things have been pretty quiet lately, and we're taking this year off of touring and things like that. But overall, life is good, kids are happy, uh weather could be better, but yeah, doing well, man.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Nice. It's a little gloomy and rainy here today. I don't know if it's the same for you, but I'm actually enjoying it. For me, it's a perfect day to record a podcast episode, so I'm into it. Uh, for those who might not know you, right? You mentioned the band. Why don't we just do a quick little jump in of exactly which band you play for? Which band is taking a little break right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Sure thing. Yeah, so I play guitar in Unleash the Archers from Vancouver, Canada. Heavy power metal. For those of you who uh don't know, I've been playing in that band since 2011. Moved over to Vancouver from the island, Vancouver Island, to join them, and have never looked back ever since.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Hell yeah. That's how Grant and I met. Um, he started off as the Sasquatch, everybody. Um, and then he got promoted to guitar.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

So who knows? Maybe that you know it'll come full circle, and that'll be the my end uh story arc in my life. Go back to the bush, grow a bunch of hair pieces that I don't want it.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Yep, right. Um no, but we've we've determined with each life cycle for you the hair gets shorter. So yeah, but but like you said, if we're going full circle, then it'll just not only will you grow the hair on your head, you're just gonna let it all grow. Just fuck it. Yeah, I love it, man. Um, yeah, you know, it's been really cool to watch you guys come as far as you have. I mean, when we met, my group Dire Peril played with you guys at a little shitty place in Sacramento to like 10 people, right? Uh so to see that to where you guys are now is really awesome. So um, so like I said, even though it's a little quiet right now, it's all right, man. You guys have done a lot. You've you've earned the quiet time for sure.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah, I I I feel like we we have to, and uh it's just um, you know, life uh positions that we're all kind of in, you know. Uh we all get different things going on right now.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Um yeah, you've been doing some hockey stuff. I know it's not guitar related, but we're gonna ask him about hockey. How how's that going, man?

SPEAKER_00 3:07

It's going really good, dude. So hockey was my first love, actually, before uh before music. So I grew up playing rep hockey as a goalie. My first dream was actually to like be in the NHL, and then I discovered heavy metal and it was like really conflicted, and I was like, oh NHL, rock star, NHL, rock star. Like I ended up choosing guitar, okay, but now I'm kind of uh coming full circle, coming back and getting more involved in that locally. It's been a real fun.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

The cool thing about that now is you kind of get to do both now, right? So in hindsight, it was probably the wise choice. Um so that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Maybe you could yeah, we had our first uh arena show uh last year, I guess, with Power Wolf in uh real, and it was like it it felt really um comfortable getting ready for a concert in a hockey locker room. It was a really cool feeling. I'm like, normally I'm in here like lacing up skates, but I'm like putting on some tight pants right now, ready to go play for a arena full of metal heads. There you go, man.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Yeah, see, perfect.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

You you know, you know that I'm a very um uh passion and and meaning-driven person, so I don't think there's anything that I would do in life that I'm not like full like my my whole heart and soul isn't behind it. So that's why, you know, being home here right now, not touring, I was like, okay, what can I do to one create something more locally for myself, my family business-wise, but then also something that I like I also just genuinely love being a part of, and so yeah, music and hockey, that's what's my life right now. Music, hockey, and being a dad, it's pretty sweet. That's awesome, man.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

I love that for you. Um, you know, Maiden had their soccer team. Maybe it's time for UTA to have a hockey team. Wow, that's actually not a bad idea. I'm just saying, man. Yeah, I don't know if anyone else in the group is into hockey like you, but uh that'd be cool.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Uh, you know what? I I found this out you know, after knowing him for about a decade and not knowing this, but uh Scott Buchanan actually used to play hockey. Oh, really? I think he was a goalie, actually, if I don't if I uh remember correctly, but I think it was a pretty short-lived um spurt he had as a kid.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

But well, there you go. Um, if anything, we need some hockey jerseys. If you guys haven't done that already, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Uh actually I've had one made up for me custom by a guy um uh that I met uh through Twitch. Oh, cool. He was he was uh helping people out, uh setting different streamers up with these jerseys. Um so yeah, he hooked me up. I don't have it on hand right now, but maybe I'll post a picture or uh send you a picture and you can throw it in the edit here.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Yeah, there we go. Right here. Yeah. If there's no photo, that means Grant forgot to send it, everybody. Yeah, yeah. Um, so awesome. All right, we're gonna we'll switch back to guitar now, everybody. I promise this is a guitar podcast, but let's let's get into Grant. Let's get into you, man. Let's go to your younger years, how you started with guitar. So this is actually great, right? Because you mentioned when you were younger there was the the conflict of hockey, guitar. So I would be curious what ultimately made made you make the decision that you were gonna pursue guitar over hockey, and you know, just what was it like for little grant uh with coming up with guitar, maybe from there, some of the early bands that sort of led you to uh Unleash the Archers?

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Yeah, of course. Um that's a good question on what really made me use one or the other. And I'm gonna have to really kind of go through the uh the the magic school bus here and go back through time to put myself in the the mind frame because I haven't really thought of that maybe, maybe ever, to be honest. What but um yeah, let's bring it back. Like I uh I never played an instrument as a as a kid. Like my my life was really consumed by hockey to be honest. So my parents never put me in anything else until I got to grade seven and uh and I joined like the school band. Right. That was like my first time joining music. And at the same time, I was kind of like getting into like pop punk and and and punk bands and things like that, you know, more alternative, like because at the time uh much music, much more music was like on cable TV, and they had uh a show called the punk show, and then they had a show called uh Much More Loud. It was like one hour a week, and they're like Saturday nights back to back at like 10 p.m. or something like that. I can't remember, you can't remember when it was on, but they're I know they're back to back, and that kind of started to expose me to um some more, I don't know, heavier music in general. Um and uh so I started playing the trombone and uh in uh in concert band and was just kind of like I was kind of just one of those kids who just was just always hanging out in the band room, right? I wanted to, I really wanted to play drums. Like that was like on first day of band class, everybody kind of writes down uh their top three instruments they want. Of course, like 20 people all pick drums, like everyone sits behind the drum set. Nobody wants to get stuck playing flute or the piccolo or whatever it is, you know. Uh, but I got stuck on the trombone um because I would imagine people with like prior music experience get thrown on the drums, right? I I had nothing, I was like going in blind. So here I was just uh grade seven guy, you know, learning the trombone, hanging out in them in the music room, trying to like sneak on the drums, and uh there was like an electric bass there that I started to learn, and uh the first instrument I actually got after the trombone was a bass, right? Because that was the first string instrument that I could like play in the band room. So I I can't remember. I ended up buying a bass for like 50 bucks or something, 100 bucks off of whatever. I have no idea, can't remember where I got it from, but um yeah, I realized that the bass was like I don't know, it wasn't it wasn't me. I wanted more, you know. I was like, ah, I want to start playing solos and like playing, you know, because I'm I'm a very competitive person, so like at least with myself, like I was like, if I'm gonna do something, I'm like, I want to be like go all the way. I was like, there's no point going like half-assing anything. I'm like, if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna go all the way. So like if I'm learning a string instrument, I'm not going bass, give me six strings, right? I don't think seven string, eight string was very popular back then. This is like 20 25 years ago, but uh like six strings. So I yeah, I started learning, you know, blank 182, some 41, um papa roach, things like that. New metal was pretty big, and yeah, I mean I've told this story many times before, but I came home from school one day in grade seven and saw Iron Maiden's Rock and Rio being played on much more music, and I was like, I was like, what is this? Like everything in my being was like, This is what I'm made for. Like, this is what I want to do, this is exactly what I want to play.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

I don't want to that was I'm gonna cut in because I don't want to forget this, but I just have to say how much I relate with you with Rock and Rio. Um I lived in a I l I grew up in a country town where the closest thing was a Walmart and I didn't drive. I walked three hours to that thing to buy Rock and Rio. Uh and anyways point is is it was it's a life-changing DVD. Uh, anyone who hasn't seen it, go watch it. Even with all the stuff they've put out, there's that magic of rock and Rio. I mean, Bruce was Bruce was just back, right? I think Adrian just came back too. So I didn't mean to cut off Grant everybody, but it's like I was gonna forget and just the magic that is rock and Rio, everyone. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

It's it's it stands the test of time. It's such a great performance. And it's such a important, I think, kind of like I don't know what you want to call it, a milestone, a fork of the road, whatever you want to call it. For that time period, like early 2000s, when like new metal and and and all this was like getting pretty rampant, and Maiden was like, no, classic metal is back. Not that it was like gone, but like Maiden had kind of like you know, veered away from their former glory, so to speak, and it was like, okay, it was a way to um for kids who like didn't I didn't have like an older brother to like introduce metal to me, like my dad was like not a metal head, so like it was like that way to bridge that like that gap with the new generation, be like, hey, there's also this whole other world available that you just you don't even know about yet, right? So it was like it was like um uh what's that that um that movie, the labyrinth. It was like opening the door to like whoa, it was like my it was like coming out of the cave for the first time. What is all this metal, right? And that just opened up to everything, right? Metallica, slayer, megadeth, um went through a melodic death thrash phase, right? Uh still stayed, still loved punk rock, and I still loved that as well, right? So um yeah, and then um I guess segueing into like first bands. First band was actually like just like a middle school band with a few of my friends, right? Actual uh play guys I've played hockey with my whole life who were also starting to get into instruments. So we like started a band. I think the first iteration was called whatever the fiasco, or we were called seven shot, we were called Worskin.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

Those all sound very punk rock.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Yeah, it was kind of like a pop punk type of thing, right? And then I got put into a thing called Weekend Warriors, which was like uh kind of like a school of rock thing where you get thrown into like uh a band with a five other random kids, and you learn a bunch of songs, you try to write a song, and then you play a show at the end of three months, and that's where I met Andrew, who uh is the other guitarist in Unleash the Archers. That's where I met his brother. I was actually in a band with his brother, and that's where we kind of all met, and then that was like the start. After that, the program was the start of like the first metal band that I started with Andrew and his brother. Uh, we were called Vial of Blood initially. Hell yeah, and then it segued into um Knights of the Apocalypse and then into Golgotha and then into Archon Legion, and we ended up um moving to Victoria uh in our mid-teens to pursue our music career. Andrew and I. We moved to Victoria, we kind of dropped out of high school, we went down there to play with some other musicians, we had a drummer down there we really wanted to play with, and that was the kind of start of um, I guess, going from like a teenager just learning guitar to like actually going out in the world and starting to play some shows. And uh, there's myself, Andrew, and we had another guitarist, uh Matthew, but we just called him Whitey because his last name was Whitehead. It wasn't a uh a racial thing. Uh so we had like a three-guitar onslaught where we're kind of all like shredders, and we were kind of like known as that like young band with like 13-year-olds who were like all three guitars were like playing solos and stuff, right? So um, yeah, and then it just kind of like continued on from there. We moved to Victoria, we met Unleash the Archers, we started our first tours, uh, and then eventually that band broke up, and I joined Unleash the Archers, and um yeah, the rest is history. That's kind of like a snip shot.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Now, did you join before Andrew or same time?

SPEAKER_00 15:47

I joined Unleash the Archers before Andrew, yeah. Okay, so I actually got I actually got kicked out of our um original metal band, Archon Legion. And then I was kind of like a free agent, and I I went up north. I ended up like working in the oil field for a little bit. I was like, hey, this is the first time I'm like not in a band, so I'm gonna go make some money.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Right. Yeah, what's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

So I went up there, I was I was working, and then at the same time I was up there working, uh, unleashed the archers were looking for a new guitarist. They had already moved to Vancouver, and um, so I reached out to them. I joined in 2011, and then Andrew joined in 20 like 14, 2015, I think.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Okay, yeah. Every time I mentioned the story of sort of how I met you all, I actually discovered you guys because Stu Block shared the video Dawn of Ages. I might have told you this before because that's how I learned you were the Sasquatch in that. Um, so that was my first introduction. So I don't think either of you were in the band at the time, right? But you knew them because you were in the video, obviously. Uh that's when I joined.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

What's that? I I just joined the band then. Oh. But I joined as they were like just finishing, they had already recorded Demons of the Astro Ace, their second album. Gotcha. So I came in and actually I threw on like two or three solos on that album because it was like they were like, I joined, they're like, hey, we're like just about done this album. We got a few spots for solos though. If you want to like write something quick and throw it on there, so it but it didn't make sense for me to be in the uh in the video for dawn of ages because like I'd been there for two weeks and didn't write or record the albums like well, we got I'll be the South Squatch. It's like oh perfect. That'll be like a cool Easter egg.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Yeah, okay. I love that. Yeah, and then so that's when I discovered Archers. But then by the time I had met you all, you and Andrew were both in the group. So so I've always known it as the two of you, as far as like who I've met, but it is weird sometimes going back watching those old videos without you two, like, hmm, something feels off here.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Yeah, yeah, there was a definite kind of style change too when we came in.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

It's very, it's very obvious, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

And started writing at least, like because I gave him demons, uh, didn't write anything, like I said, just throw out a couple solos. We did an EP like a year after that, where uh I didn't write anything for that either. Brayden's still was the main songwriter for those first two albums, and then Defy the Skies as well, and then it was Time Stand Still that I began writing for, and that's when Braden left. Like, I was like writing songs. I'd like um uh Tonight We Ride was the first one, and then Dream Crusher, and then I started writing uh Going Down Fighting, and you can just tell that like Braden wasn't into it anymore, right? He was like he went from being like the main songwriter, always bringing songs to like not really bringing anything anymore. And it was like me doing it all. And he brought like he'd bring a song, and it was like we'd we'd jam it, it was like uh okay, and then it was just like one one uh rehearsal, we all showed up, and Braden just kind of gave us the news that he was gonna leave. He actually showed up with his hair cut in a suit, and we're like, whoa!

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Something something's happening today. I don't know what it is. I can't put my finger on it. We're all like plugging things in. He's just like sitting there, like, and he broke the news, and that's when I was like, I got I got the perfect guy for the job. Andy or back, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Yep, and here c yeah, here comes Andrew. I love it. Cool. And you know what, man, and that's fair. Sometimes people's paths just go a different way, and uh, and that's all right, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Um well, you know as much as I do, it's this is not an easy uh business or endeavor to pursue trying to be in a band and make it actually feasible and be able to tour and not break up and actually you know at least break even and then if you're lucky, make some money on on top of it. And yeah, it's a hard road, right? Yep, and I've I've definitely gone through my share, you know, of positions now, and and fans you know, I get a picture of it just from seeing how many members leave all the time from different bands, right? Yep, it's just not an easy um path for anyone to to do for uh even one year, let alone decades. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

And you know, the the the ones who stick, the ones who stay, it's because that passion and love is there. But the thing is, is that doesn't mean it's for fun the whole time, but we do it because we love it, you know, and that's what some people don't understand, you know. They're like, just just go back to doing it because you love it. It's like that's literally the only reason I'm still here. But there's a difference of me playing at the local bar for fun and trying to make this my lifestyle, you know. Um it comes with many different things, so yes, it's hard, but there's still that that side of you that it's like, but I wouldn't want to do anything else. So you endure, you know. Um and sometimes you go through breaks, sometimes you need the the time. I mean, you know, I I was pumping out tunes and I haven't written a song since the Ovromulus stuff, like kind of like I did a couple last year, like a new planeswalker song, but like a full song on my own. It's been a minute. And uh, you know, but sometimes that happens and you just gotta you just gotta go with it. But and that's okay. And that's a good lesson too for those listening and and you know, trying to to learn something from these podcasts is like it's a hard road. You're gonna have you're gonna have tough days, but you know, if you really love it and you really want to do it, just keep going. I mean, unfortunately, it's the same thing when you talk to a student about getting better at guitar. There's no shortcut, you just gotta keep. Going and it's not always easy, but you gotta practice, you gotta put in the time, put in the work.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Yeah, I think um, I think part of it is just like appreciating and recognizing and honoring different seasons in life. If you're you know in the winter time and you you're you're going outside with flip-flops and a rubber dinghy, and then you're pissed off because it's you're cold. Oh, you got the wrong strategy in the wrong season. You know, it's like some people are sitting there complaining that it's cold out that there's snow. Some people are going up in the mountain and snowboarding, right? So it's like you gotta recognize what season you're in, and that's fine. Like, there's especially with us too, like we're taking some time off. It's a it's just different, it's a season in the band's long, long career, right? It's not gonna be forever that we're not touring. There's gonna be times where we're gonna be touring so hard that we're we wish we were back home, right? And it's just about you know, appreciating and just embracing each season of life. There's times to grow, there's times to coast, there's times to relax, there's times to work hard, and it's like you gotta really, really settle into each season, you know. It's like on vacation, you know, enjoy it. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

A thing I like I'm sorry, what was that?

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Go ahead. I was I was done my rant. Oh, no worries.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

A thing I always like to look at is when you look at uh a lot of these bands. So, great example, we've been talking about Iron Maiden, but you can look at Maiden, you can look at uh Blind Guardian, you know, for the power metal lovers, but you look at their early career, it's an album a year, and then that turns into an album every two years, and now it's an album every six to ten years, and they they're not they're not hitting it as hard as when they were younger, and so getting older is a part of it too. Like you you learn, as you said, to appreciate the seasons. You know, I'm sure those boys, you know, they get older, you get families like you, you got kids, right? So um Britney and Scott now have a kid, so things change. We can't hit it as hard, even for me. I don't have kids, but I'm not in the same mindset I was even five years ago, where I was like, I will go broke for this. I'm now at a point where it's like I'll moderately struggle for this. But I can't, I'm not willing to go broke anymore, so yeah, things change, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Yeah, you know, each band has different seasons too. You know, when you're just starting out, you want to take like every gig as possible possible. You want to play and you know, network and get out there when you're established, you don't want to be playing every weekend, every every month, because then you end up overplaying and people get tired of you, right? So it's like you gotta recognize what season you're in as a as a business, as a band, as a person. And like we were talking about this before we uh started recording, but like comparing yourself to others. It's like, are you comparing your like you know, your second season to somebody's like 12th season? Right. You know, like look back to their second season and see what they did then be like, oh okay, that's that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Like now I'm you know, comparison is a thief of joy, so yeah, and it's something I struggle with, and I I'm always openly admitting to this, right? And you know, sometimes when I when I try to get feedback and I talk to other people, like we were talking about streaming, you know, and I've asked a lot of my friends who do really well streaming, and most of them give the same answer. They're like, dude, I've just been doing it forever. Again, it goes back to the just keep grind, you know. I don't like the word grinding, but just keep working at it. Um because there's no trick. Keep improving. Yeah. Grinding. I I think where it gets hard for people, and myself included, is because you hear that, but then you'll see this one person, this one person out of a hundred, who it's like, well, they didn't have to. It's like, well, sometimes it just happens, and there's no formula, they met the right person, they did the right thing, they had the right personality. It's like, and that's where the s the problem of you can't compare yourself to others because it's like, well, just because they did it doesn't mean you won't, or just because you're not again just to play devil's advocate here, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

You see that person who's like, maybe they exploded off their first like endeavor type of thing. It may look that way. What did they do before that? You know, what is now what is the past 20 years of their life experience, what has built them to be able to like now, like for example, see if you and I go out and start a brand new band, it's not gonna we're not gonna be at the same point as if I was starting a brand new band 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Because I've so many more connections, so many more um things I know about what to do that from day one, already in a pretty good position. Yep. Right. But it's only because of that 20, 30 years of experience and and putting in the work to someone on the outside like what who never who is you know, somebody who never knew either of us, and they see us start a new band, everything looks polished, like, what the hell? Why these guys like already got a deal, they haven't even put a song out now. Like, oh, it's because you know it's like that iceberg metaphor, right? And then that's everybody only sees the tip, but there's so much more that goes into it.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

Yep. You know, you talked about when growing up, right, how you kind of got into music starting with band and things like that, and you know, Iron Maiden leading you to the heavier bands and stuff like that. But is there anyone or bands any that in particular influenced your style? Because one thing I've always liked about you is you can shred, my man, but also your rhythm is very tight, very good. And as a rhythm player, like I noticed that because there are a lot of uh people who play great leads and stuff, and they're there's this tight in-the-pocket rhythm that not everyone has. And I just want to say before uh I move on to Grant Talking, I'm not saying this in a negative way, I'm just saying it's the facts of different styles. Some people don't put as much focus on that tight Hetfield style playing, and that doesn't mean they're not phenomenal players. But you and I have played together, you did the show with my group Dire Peril, which is pretty demanding stuff rhythm-wise. Um, and I've always admired your rhythm playing because again, like as a rhythm player, I noticed that kind of stuff. So, what guitarists really kind of inspired you at a younger age to sort of have that style instead of going more of like a Mounstein uh kind of plane?

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Yeah, so I think it might be partially my like desire early on to be a drummer, you know, so like this kind of I don't know, focused towards like the rhythmic parts of of music. Um you know, I I was even though I did kind of get into power metal pretty early on in my metal journey and kind of did gravitate towards that, there was a part of power metal that I like didn't really like, which was like the very kind of like orchestral, um you know, as as uh it was termed flower metal, you know, that European um kind of more operatic, more orchestral sound, right? So I when I was getting really into um power metal, I was getting into heavier power metal bands like Mike Hibria and Iced Earth and uh Yank Panzer and you know even Strativarius, even though they were kind of like in that Euro uh style, the rhythm the rhythm guitar of Timutolki was still really like punishing. Like one thing I've loved from a very early age and still do is when I get to and I'm sure this is music to your ears, palm muting a guitar with a good sounding amp, that like that feeling you get in your chest, where it's like like that to me is like the epitome of of uh metal guitar. So I I I'm not sure, I don't think it was like a specific guitarist that like was like, Oh, I want to like really hone in my rhythm guitar skills. It was more of like this philosophy of liking this part of music. Obviously, I was uh uh gravitated and attracted towards like the lead work as well, you know, like when I first discovered Lexi Lyho and like children of bow and started to really like that kind of neoclassical shred, but then you know, like for example, then like Winter Sun kind of comes out. I really also loved um uh heavier stuff like Winter Sun, like Death, like Carcass. So and and a lot of thrash bands. Um I wasn't the biggest uh into Slayer, but I really liked um uh obviously Metallica, James Hepfield is probably the uh goat rhythm guitar player, but um yeah, something like the German thrash bands, like Destruction and Sodom, things like that. I really I really kind of gravitated towards that. So I think yeah, that mix with like my punk rock roots. It was like I was like, yeah, I love guitar solos, but I I don't know what it was. There was something about honing in that other um part of the guitar, and maybe he was also like uh playing with Andrew since like I was really young. He was like, I always found he was like he was always better than me on the on the leads, right? So I was like, okay, I've gotta really like lock in the the rhythm. Like if there's one thing like I can't slouch on, is like it's my rhythm playing. Because if he's gonna like crash all these crazy leads, he needs like a really solid guy behind him, right? Right. And um not to say like I've never cons considered myself like a virtuostic lead player uh because of that, right? I can I I can dip into that territory, and when I write solos, they're more um less show offy and more like trying to create a good melody that like sings to you type of thing.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

You know, just real quick, you know what I love about that though, because you see this dynamic a lot in bands, uh a band that comes straight to mind as trivium, right? Um I would I would say in comparison, it's sort of the same dynamic where Corey would be Andrew, you would be Matt, and Matt really locks in that rhythm. And when he solos, they're great, but they're very like you said, they're it's the same idea, very locked in on the melody, they're even kind of rhythm-y in a way. Um, and then Corey's the guy who's like, Yeah, well, look what I can do, you know, on on the solos, but they complement each other really well, and having both is great. Even Iron Maiden, Adrian is very much um like when it comes to rhythm and maiden, I I go team Adrian. Like Dave always has the smooth, just nice solos. Adrian's solos are fantastic as well, but man, some of them are almost riffy in their own way, right? Yeah, um, yeah, and so having that dynamic really works with band with a band, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

I I think that is so important with uh having two guitarists in a band is having that like complementary styles. Like, yeah, you don't want two of the same guitarists in the band. It's just like I think it's boring. I I like like, for example, like very un not a metal band necessarily, but like guns and roses, like things that what I really like about them is like they have two very distinct guitar parts, even on the rhythm side of things. They're rarely playing the same thing, but they're very complementary.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Right. It's really cool when that works out too. Um I think a great example to show the strengths of exactly what you're talking about for Unleashed the Archers is the song Abyss. I don't know if you would agree with me or not, but because you guys have the trade-off solos there, and you absolutely hear what you're talking about here, you know. Um like just listening to it, I'd be like, Oh, but it could also help that I've known you guys for over a decade, but I can hear and be like, oh, that's Grant. Oh, that's Andrew, right? Like you can, but that's that's it it's it's really cool when you can reach a point like that with your group where people could just hear it and be like, oh, that's that's Grant for sure. I don't even need to look, you know.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Um and I think that's something that all musicians should strive for. Anyone out there listening to this is like, and it's probably one of the hardest things to do, to be honest, is defining a sound for your somebody hears you, they're like, Oh, that's that person, right? Right? So yeah, I think that is going to be the new maybe not new, but the most sought after kind of commodity moving forward in music because if you look around, there's no shortage of technicality and talent out there, but there's a shortage of flavor and style and uniqueness um not across the board. There's definitely um people doing it far better than I ever have or ever will. But yeah, I I I think to f you know creating a unique style, it's easy for singers because everyone's voice is unique, right? You kind of hear a singer pretty for the most part, you can tell who it is. Guitarists, it's a little harder to create a sound, right? Some guitarists like depict certain modes that they use all the time, certain licks that kind of like uh revisit and multiple songs, like oh yeah, it's that kind of guy. Uh drummers, pretty hard uh to have a defined sound, but it is possible.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Yeah. Um, an interesting thing you said though, when I asked you, like sort of what got you into rhythm and stuff, and you mentioned that you wanting to be a drummer and maybe that's something to do with it. I think that's cool because when I did the the last podcast with Donnie, he mentioned drummers, and that was a big thing for him. And I find that interesting because that that wasn't it for me. Um and like I didn't think that when I was getting into it. Unfortunately, my story is not super exciting. I was just shown Metallica and Iced Earth, and that's just how I played. That's literally that's that's how I became a rhythm player, is because I that's where I started, and that's what I knew. And as I progressed, that's just what I that's just the style I kept playing, and then it was like, oh, I guess that's what I do. So there was there was no decision making.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Yeah, story champion. You add those ingredients, I start in Metallica, yeah, what I'm out of it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

So I didn't make the display. I didn't make the decision to be a rhythm player. I just I just am, I just was. But point is is I so I I I like I find that interesting that two people so far mention like drums as and it makes sense because I'm I very much think that way now, like locking in with the drummer and the rhythms, and what's the drummer doing? So I kind of I guess I just went the the reverse way, you know. But we got to the same conclusion there.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Um yeah, and actually thinking back now, uh, we don't rehearse and jam like we used to. We're in a different season. But like earlier on, we were jamming like you know, three three to four times a week, all the time just jamming for the sake of jamming, working out parts. And I was always not always, but majority of the time the guy going in for extra sessions with the drummer, just me and the drummer working things out, um, just repeating rhythm with them, working, you know. So, yeah, I mean that's I think it's the one of the most important parts of core of a sound is like the rhythm, right? If everything's out of sync rhythm, it doesn't matter what kind of melodies you have over top of it.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yep, so yeah, and this is unrelated, but if anyone's listening, just aspiring to be in a band, get a good fucking drummer. Uh if you got some of the tightest guitar players and your drummers all over the place, it don't matter. Uh but if you got like an okay guitarist and a tight fucking drummer, you're gonna be able to get away with it a little better. So shout out to drummers out there.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Yeah, I mean, yeah, as a as a rhythm guitarist, you can kind of hide behind extra sounds there, and nobody majority of people aren't gonna notice. Yep. Drummond music missing feet or like not playing very tight, it's everyone's looking around.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Yeah, you know what? This is this is the perfect segue to stuff I wanted to ask you. Um, how you approach the studio versus live, because they are two different beasts, right? Um and so when you go and track uh for yourself or for archers, um, what are what would you say are some like checklist um when recording, you know, obviously rhythm because it's a rhythm podcast, but just in general, just things you want to have done before you're in the studio, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Yeah, I mean we definitely always try to record everything at least once before we actually record it for real, right? So you've kind of done a dry run, call it pre-production demo everything before we actually go in to record it for the final time. That just, you know, I think the benefits of that go without saying, but you're not wasting time in the studio, you know, then figuring out, oh, these parts don't work or they don't line up, or you you want to figure this all out well in advance of being in there and recording it. This is you know, um assuming that you're just going to the studio and just throwing everything down. You're not going in there to figure things out and write. Because there's sometimes you go in the studio and you're like intentionally trying to figure things out. That's fine, right? But as a general rule, we try to record everything pre-production before we actually do it. Um, at least guitar-wise, you we don't always do that for like I know Brittany doesn't do that for all her vocals, but she will like kind of mime the melodies and things like that. I know she's still figuring things out, even sometimes until like 30 seconds before she's about to record it, or the night before she's writing the lyrics, right? But the main part of the music, as far as the drums and the guitars and everything go, record everything as many times before you actually have to lay it down for real. Um, it's just gonna make it's just like when you do something for the second time, it's just so much easier because you've already been down this road. Right? Um, so that's one pre-production as much as you can before you go into the studio. Um the other what's the other big difference is between live and the studio? I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of differences to be honest. Like the beauty of the studio is that you don't have to play everything in one five-minute long take, right? So you can really kind of hone in on certain parts and and just record things in chunks. Um, the beauty of you know, being in a band that's not a progressive band that has a million different parts, when you have one verse or a chorus that is the same throughout the same song, you record it once you can just like copy and paste it, right? So that's a uh a beneficial um benefit of technology, right? And it's like, sure, can you record it again and play it fine? Yeah, you can, but are you gonna waste you know the next two hours recording all those parts again when you already have them? Right? So work smarter, not harder. There's no like ego or pride that comes into recording. Like we just have the mindset we just want it to sound the best, right? So I know um, you know, uh Metallica, like James Heffield, he records all the rhythm parts, right? For both guitar parts, right? And they double up rhythm parts. And actually, this is a really good point to bring up that we also do is we double up all of our rhythm parts. We record them at least twice on each side, completely different takes. So it's just on either side. Another point there that I was going to mention, but uh it kind of slipped my mind.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

I don't know if there's any questions you have about what I mentioned there, but well, I guess more specifically, um, yeah, I'll try to say as a guitarist, or let's ask this what makes you the most nervous, live or still? Studio. My answer is studio.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

Yeah. I don't know, probably. I don't know. I I I don't want to sound um egotistical or anything like that, but I don't really get nervous a lot.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 44:25

Yeah. Um I feel it's one of my superpowers in a way, but I do feel that the studio has a lot more pressure.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

Yeah. Like being under that microscope, you know. Um stakes are higher, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Because you make a and it's you're you're still in the same spot. You can't move on until you've kind of corrected it.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

But this goes back to what Grant was saying with the pre-production, recording first, knowing the material before you're recording the final takes is gonna help get, you know, um not have that be an issue. Sorry guys, that was a bad situation.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

The more prepared you are for anything, the less nervous you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

Yep. And I've had situations where I've had to record stuff for people like uh my this band Judicator. Uh I did not their last album Concord, but I did rhythm guitars for the album before that, and they're like, Okay, so we need it in a month, and uh like it was all written by the singer, so there was a lot of parts where it's like you realize my fingers don't do that, bro. Um so that was that was a rare situation where I'm learning the songs while recording them, and like looking back, it's kind of like when I listen to it, you can you can hear it in yourself where it's like ah, that would have been played so much better if I had time to like sit with the song.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

So um yeah, and that's the thing too, man. Like when you come in after you've already pre-production, it's like everything is already so familiar to you.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

Yep, but yeah, for me it'd be studio because live if oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Yeah, there's no surprises, it's like you've been down every path here, everything's familiar. And um, you know what? A lot of it also comes down to the environment you have for recording. Like, who are you recording with? Is it a room full of you know, 10 people also watching you track while you're working with like a top name producer that you haven't worked with before? And this is like take one, right? Opposed to like, okay, is this somebody you've known for 10 years, you've worked with, you've done a bunch of albums with, there's nobody else in the room except for just like you and him.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

Yeah, all that matters.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

Depends on the environment. Yep. And then your preparation beforehand. You know, this maybe goes out to maybe the younger uh audience out there, younger guitarists, maybe you haven't recorded yet. And this is something that may seem obvious, uh, but can easily be a detail that you kind of like don't think about. And it's like riding, you know, say you're palm muting a chord and you're accenting, like, you know, certain notes in that chord, and then riding on on like the root note, right? Just for the rhythm. Um, very important just to stick on that one root note for the rhythm, right? Not to making that super laser tight. Um, earlier in my career, this was something that was exposed to my playing, is like when I'm like riding on a chord, ring it out, and then like my palm muting wasn't always just on that one single string riding it out, right? And you kind of those details can be overlooked in a jam space in a live environment, but under a microscope, that's when it gets really revealed. So it's like, okay, whether you're doing alternate picking 16th notes, or if you're just downpicking on a note, you know, are you wanting to hit, you know, the full power chord in that down pick, or are you just wanting to hit that single root note? Right? Those are choices that you have to be very deliberate on, uh, because it's gonna change how everything sounds. It also changes when you start to sync up other rhythm parts, right? If you have two rhythm parts, they're supposed to be playing the exact same thing, right? Those small little details, whether you let up a little bit on the palm mute or you're hitting two strings instead of the one string in the palm mute, those little details really matter.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

And that's yeah, and that's a very good point that Grant brought up because I used to not think about those things either, and you can hear it in my earlier work, but now like you said, like with quad tracking, so that's two guitars per side all recorded at different times, but the trick is to make them sound like one guitar. So you have to know what you're playing. And now I personally, if I'm doing a chunky dun dun dun dun dun dun, I'll do the full power chord because it just adds some beef. But if it's a if it's a faster 16th note or even a faster like 200 bpm down pick, I'll probably do just the root note because I know I'm gonna consistently hit that over the whole power chord. But that's something like you said, you gotta but also, man, something just feels good about doing a a mid-tempo power chord chug. But if you're gonna commit, commit, you know. And that's the important thing about that.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

Like yeah, do intention, do it like I'm intending to hit this whole power chord, or I'm not, or I'm hitting it on you know the end of beat two, right? On both all takes everyone's hitting that little small little detail, right?

SPEAKER_02 49:54

Yep, and it's one of those important things I always like to say, uh, and this is where this is where it sounds like another, like it's probably obvious, but it's not always obvious. When you're playing these tight rhythms, every note matters and is just as important. And these when we say something like that, this is what we're talking about. Where are you accenting? Where are you putting that extra oomph? Is it all of it? Is it this one part? Because if you do it here, the other guitarist does it there, the bass player does it there. Well, now it just sounds like slop.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right, that's where pre-production really comes into play, where you can kind of like isolate and hear every track, be like, hey, two of us are like doing it together, and one of us are like on your on your own uh little path there.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

Yep, and it might not seem like something that matters that much, and even when you're listening to it, it might sound good, but that's what changes it from this sounds good to this sounds professional, you know. Yeah, because when you listen to a pro produced album from all these bands you love that are put out, it sounds great because you're not thinking about the production because it's it's done so well, you don't have to think about it, you know. Um, but as soon as the crack starts to fall, then you'll notice.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Yeah, it's like the say with the with with bass, you don't notice it until it's gone.

SPEAKER_02 51:15

Man, I I ne when I first when I learned the and that's you know another great point. People don't realize how much bass affects guitar tone and the and the heaviness of the guitar. Um you know, it's so funny when I post videos that's just the when I'm just playing my guitar and like a little hi-hat in the background, and everyone's like, Man, that guitar tone's a little thin. It's like, trust me, it sounds good in a mix with strong bass, like you know, uh, because I used to think the same. I'd always be like, Man, why is my guitar tone? Why doesn't my guitar tone sound like this iced earth album? You know, it's like, well, because it's it's not produced like the iced earth album. You know, Schaefer does five guitar tracks per side, that's insane. Jesus. Like, and he does very little, and that's the thing too, uh, guys, to think about if you want this heavy tone, it might sound crazy, but actually turn your gain down a little bit. Um, so Schaefer turns the gain down super low and then tracks five per side, and then that's how you get this big wall. Um, but I'm just like, dude, playing that tight rhythm ten times, even I'm a little afraid to do that.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

So that's insane.

SPEAKER_02 52:30

That's a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Yeah, and what do you even call that? What's quad tracking? What's 10?

SPEAKER_02 52:36

What is what is 10? Yeah, uh I don't even know, but crazy is what it is. Unnecessary? I don't know. But then that's you know, you talk about it's hard to find that sound, right? Like there's shit there is a tightness to the iced earth albums that I don't hear in other stuff that play that similar style. And so again, that goes to you know, like there's a method to the madness because I'll hear bands who play similarly, even myself. Like, you listen to the dire power album, dude. That's just iced earth worship all over the thing, but that still doesn't sound as tight as an iced earth album, and it's you know, part of it is I didn't do five tracks per side, hell no. Um, in fact, that album is only one per side because I did that before I knew anything the hell I was doing.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

So no wonder it sounds so weak.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Yeah, no, but really good point, actually. And um, you know, and it's a funny thing because it's like, oh yeah, this tone sounds awesome just by yourself, right? You can have like this this amp, you know, there's like line six amps that sound great by themselves, and then you you add them into a mix, and you know, mids are scooped when they're sounding great. You get them in a mix and it's non-existent anymore, right? So the tone that you need for guitar uh or like a live band setting is completely different than like what you would want just jamming alone. Right. Right? So that's a very um that's a very good point that maybe some guitarists are overlooking. And a lot of it comes down to yeah, cranking up the mids a little bit, cranking up the treble so you can hear that like that attack and the definition. You don't need like that big LE behind it always. Yeah. And you like you're mentioning with Schaefer's gain is cranked down, it's just like it's like a uh like a machine gun.

SPEAKER_02 54:44

And that's the thing, because the gain too high, yeah. You put that gain too high, and now the performance is getting lost in the gain. Um, so that's that's the give and take, is you can fake it a little bit better. But if you really want that tight rhythm, man, you turn it down, and then again it comes to the plane, man. You gotta put in that work because now you can't hide the mistakes. But man, do you sound good when you're locked in with that low gain, and it's gonna sound better, and it's gonna have that tight fucking sound you're looking for. Um and a lot of credit, you know, we mentioned thrash bands. A lot of credit, you know, thrashers, they they figured this out. I mean, listen to a lot of old thrash bands, man, and that's where rhythm really was locking in, you know, Testament, Exodus, uh, anthrax. Um, I always thought anthrax had really great tone and really good rhythms that's not talked about.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Yeah, Scotty and yep. We he at least needs to be mentioned at least once in this conversation.

SPEAKER_02 55:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 55:46

Because yeah, they are. He is a monster rhythm guitar player. Yep. Like trying to play some anthrax stuff, it's deceiving. Like, oh, this doesn't sound too hard, and you're like, whoa, what BPM is this guy clock on down picks at?

SPEAKER_02 56:00

Yeah, um, like caught in a mosh. Uh I learned that song for a video I did uh with a buddy, and I was like, oh wow, this is quite yeah, it's just and um or there was this one song I forget that a buddy of mine told me to learn uh that he uses for like um right arm warmups and stuff. And when I listened to it, I was like, this doesn't sound hard, but the it's long, it's like six minutes, so it's an it's just a it's a stamina test, you know. Yeah. Um and that's the thing, it's like it doesn't seem bad at first, but it's like, are you playing just as consistent from the first second to the final six minutes? And that's you know, that's where it comes in. Um all right, so a couple things before we wrap up here, man, since we're kind of coming to the end. Um are there just any I know we talked about a lot and we did mention some things as it came through, but are there just any sort of things you would say, like if if the rhythm guitar, this kind of style is someone someone really wants to lock in with, other than the obvious of practice, patience, and all that, what are just some fundamentals that really helped you or that you would say are like a must for this kind of style?

SPEAKER_00 57:10

Yeah, I mean, this was actually something uh type of exercise that I was introduced to fairly recently in like the past two or three years, I would say, from a friend uh called Bill Hudson, great guitarist. But he had this practice exercise, which seems pretty insignificant. Maybe I've shared it with you in the past. Uh but literally just I mean, there's a progression to it, right? But level one is literally just downpicking on a single string to a metronome for five minutes. Five five minutes, most songs are about five minutes, right? So it's like um this simple exercise, right? Completely removing your left hand, your left hand have it do something else, just have it hang there, right? Um, you can do this either to a metronome, or what I like to do is do this just to like a metal drum beat, just a drum loop. You can find a bunch of them online. Um, and just doing down picking on all strings. It's on what I call going around the world, taking around the world, trying to find wrinkles, trying to find any sort of little indiscrepancies, string changes, inconsistencies, right? Trying to make it very kind of robotic in a way. Uh, and when you do find inconsistencies, just sit in there and iron out the kinks, right? So you can take this through a bunch of different levels, um, starting with just down pickings, and then I do four down and four upstrokes consecutively. So I down down, down, down, up up, up up, down, down, down, down, up, up, up, up through all strings, and then you can go to just upstrokes. Uh gonna feel very weird for some people, right? But this is just to feel the different uh tensions that you feel in your hand, right? You're gonna feel it, you gotta lead with your index finger, right, instead of your thumb for this, right? And if you want a really big challenge, do master of puppets all up strokes.

SPEAKER_02 59:18

All upstrokes, yeah. I don't even think I can do that.

SPEAKER_00 59:23

And then with each of these progressions, you can add accents in there as well, right? Which is just opening up that palm mute, right? And making sure that you the hardest part about adding an accent is making sure that that second note after that open note is closed. Not hitting a double hit, which a lot of people kind of do, right? Right. So rarely taking the time to like hone in on this part of your playing, right? Just working on opening and closing that palm mute, right? If this becomes too easy, which it never can, because you can always increase the tempo, right? If you can do something, you know, for five minutes at a tempo, great, increase the tempo. You might only be able to do that next tempo for a minute before your arm starts to fall. It's either gonna be a max speed or an endurance limitation, right? So once you find you can do something at a certain tempo, how long can you do it for, right? If you only do it for a minute, keep practicing do it for five minutes, raise the tempo, right? Keep repeating that until you can endure it for five minutes, right? Um, but this is like such an a valuable exercise that I do for myself, I do with all my students, something that I preach to anyone because you can always continue to increase the difficulty and get benefit out of it. I don't think there's a uh a guitarist out there that couldn't get benefit from an exercise like this, right? Because you can add string skipping elements to it, you can add uh alternate picking, 16th note elements to it, you can change how many notes per string you're doing, right? As soon as you get to um alternate picking, when you start to do three notes per string, right? Odd, odd amount of hits per string you're having to change on a different stroke, right? Just really taking the time to perfect just your picking hand. Don't even worry about your left hand because once you got your picking hand locked in, it you can kind of like set it and forget it, right? Because everything else that you do on guitar, you have to do with your picking hand, right? It's way more options and variety with your fretting hand, right? So just take time just to lock in this part of your game, right? Five minutes a day on this pays dividends.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:52

A couple things I want to touch on uh for the people listening, and then a few of my own thoughts. Something Grant just said right there, right? Like locking in with your pickhand, because and then every because then everything you do with the pickhand, if anyone listened to last episode with Donnie, that's almost something he said. Um, and I just want to stress that importance, right? Even with leads, is people want to neglect that right hand because they want to be shredding, or sorry, neglect, yeah, the right hand, because they want to be shredding. But if you can't lock in the rhythm, there's rhythm even in in solos. There's rhythm, there's the timing, there's all that. And so the fact now you've heard it from two different people, um, the importance of getting that right arm up to where it needs to be, right? And and that that locking in, if you will, you know, and also I want to stress the importance of these exercises because sometimes I'll post exercises on my Instagram, and you get some, you know, get some comments of someone's like, Well, I just do X song for my practice. Like, that's great. And also, I think you should practice the songs because it's a it's a more it's a fun way than just downpicking for five minutes. Cool. But the thing is, is like when you're doing that, riffs are different, uh, songs are different, so it's great and it helps, but if you want to truly lock in to that, again, we're talking that just locked in pro level. Sometimes you need to reel it back and you need to focus on these things. And while it might not be exciting as this Metallica song, it's still important, you know. Um, and again, the metal go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:31

One small note on that, and how it relates to lead playing and the benefit of doing this around the world where you take it, always start on the low string, then go up to the higher ones, is because typically when you're learning guitar you're playing, the only time you play on those higher, lighter strings is when you're playing leads, when you're learning solos, right? And it's like the strings up there feel different when you're just picking on them, right? So it's like if the only time you're now playing up there is to learn this technical line, and you haven't even spent any time doing any sort of rhythm on those strings, you're gonna have a bad time. So, what this does is because that's that's the fact of the matter. Like, you have to approach each string slightly different, right? The amount of weight and the way you can dig into like your low E string compared to your high E string is completely different because there's so much more weight behind that thicker string, and also like your hand is in a different position on the bridge, right? There's different knobs in the way, so just taking like a moment to like slow things down, like okay, are things working most efficiently down on my picking hand, right? Doubleshooting anything, and the other beauty part I like about this is like you're yeah, you're working on mechanics, but you're also working on your ear, right? You're not just going through the motions, you're listening for consistency in in your attack.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:06

That's a great word. Yep. Yeah, and I'm someone who can uh contest to this because as someone who doesn't mess with leads too often, uh there are times where there might be this lick that if I play on the lower strings, easy as fuck. And then if I gotta jump an octave to the higher strings, it's a little more difficult for me. And there's that thought of like, but it's the same thing. But yeah, it's it's it is, but it's not, right? Like the riff might be the same, the melody might be the same, but just what Grant was saying, I'm now playing it on thinner strings, a little different position, you know, and so it does it does matter. And now I'm confident in like me being okay with that because like I know what I like to play and I know my style, and I'm it's fine. It's why I get better lead guitars, guitarists on my stuff. However, you know, that's that's more of like a You know, do what we say, not what I do, kind of thing. Like if you really want to lock in and like what Grant's saying, be all around great at this stuff, then focus on it, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

You know, um you touched on another um important point there. Uh yeah, it feels different going from the low strings to the high strings. It's also different on the fretting hand going from lower parts in your fretboard to higher parts in your fretboard, right? The frets are thinner, right? The response from the strings themselves, once they're fretted, is different, right? There's like a quicker response the higher up you're in the fretboard. I feel just right, the the strings are tighter because you're you're closer up. So what you know, on the I guess, just to touch a little bit more on the lead side, how this also relates to I like practicing things chromatically, right? So you have like one pattern that you're learning. Really easy example that everybody knows pentatonic uh box one, right? Playing that chromatically on fret one, then on fret two, then on fret three. Just the same box, right? You can use this for any lick you're learning, any new lick you're learning. Just play it chromatically, just move it up one fret, move it up one fret, move it up one fret. It's a great way to really get that one lick down in like in every context, right? Play it into all octaves, play it up high, play it, right? And then when you got to just play that lick standalone on switch, you're like you've practiced it in so many different ways that the one way you gotta play it now is like, oh, this is easy.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:33

Yep, absolutely. Great. All right, Grant, we're gonna get you out of here soon, but before we go, I'm gonna ask you some quick random questions on our outro here. Um just sort of little fun questions to end things out, and then uh we'll get out of here. But if you remember, what is the first song you ever learned? Damn it by Blink182.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:54

Nice, okay, awesome. Love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

Yeah, I love that. Um, and what are you listening to right now? What are what are bands you're really feeling right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:09

Oh, that's a good question. Uh, what have I been feeling? I mean, usually non-metal things, to be honest, uh, as of recently. For me personally listening, um, yeah, that's that's a good question. There's not a lot of new stuff I've been listening to. There's a lot of things that I've been going over recently with like some of my guitar students, and like um, but yeah, me personally, there's nothing, honestly, there's nothing a lot of new. I've been kind of listening to some um uh Alex Warren.

unknown 1:08:45

Alright, that's all right.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:46

I mean, I've been I've been I've been rocking the wicked soundtrack, dude. So you're in a safe place here. It's all good.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:54

But yeah, I mean I've been passing a lot of um Angra and like Lama God to some students recently, just on like the rhythm and uh and the songwriting uh style of things. I think Angra has really great bridge sections. I've been kind of going over with uh some of my students. Out out in the uh out in the uh the hockey lab there, just been rocking a lot of uh like Nestor. I don't know if you're familiar with them. Like they're like an 80s kind of like AOR kind of style. Okay. And kind of kind of been really into that kind of like more synth shred synthwave kind of stuff. Just kind of like background music.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:35

Honestly, synthwave is really great for background music. Um I do that sometimes as well. I have this like a synthwave playlist I found on Spotify, and if I just need something on, just put that on, and it's usually usually pretty good. Yeah, okay. Uh couple more. What is if you have one you're willing to share, your most embarrassing guitar moment?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:56

Ooh, my most embarrassing guitar moment. I mean, this is actually this is actually pretty embarrassing, to be honest. At least now it was devastating in the moment. And yeah, definitely embarrassing. So, time stands still, our third album. We actually recorded all the guitars at my house, Andy and I, for like two weeks. We finished the whole album, we brought it to uh into the studio. Britt's now gonna lay down her vocals. He goes to record her first vocal line. She's like, producer's like, something sounds a little off. And uh he goes to try to tune the vocals, and he realizes the guitars are out of intonation. Oh no. So the choice there was okay, we can uh Britt can record the whole album here. We won't be able to do any tuning with the vocals because I hate to blow this uh this veil behind the music here, but every vocal track you hear is auto-tuned. Everyone's like, oh, they're auto-tuned, they're cheating. No, you just you tune up pitches, it's just what you do, right? Just to kind of polish everything. And so he wasn't gonna be able to tune any of the vocals for Time Stand Still with the guitars that we had. So we had to make the decision whether we record re-record a whole album after just spending two weeks, day in and day out, and I slaving like 12-15 hours a day. We're like finally put the stamp of proof, like, yes, we're done. And then to find out, no, actually, you're not, we gotta redo it all.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:46

There's a lot of guitar on that album.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:49

So let that be a lesson to anyone out there to check your intonation on your guitar before you record anything. Um, because yeah, that was the most painful experience ever. And I'm just yeah, it's quite embarrassing that we we did that at the stage we were as a band.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:12

Ah, dude, I'm still fucking up today. It's all good. Yeah, awesome. Uh okay, two more. And this one this one might be another tough one, but that's the point. Uh, what would you say is one of the most underrated skills for a guitarist?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:28

Hmm. I mean, joke answer is being able to power slide, but the real is that a joke?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:34

I don't know, man. That that's pretty important. We said this in the last episode. Looking cool is more important than anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:42

To be honest, yeah, I'm I'm gonna go in that direction, but I think connecting with the audience is underrated, whether it be through the notes themselves or through chemistry and energy on stage. Um maybe it maybe that isn't underrated, maybe that is is highly rated. But I think it's one of those kind of like extra chips on your tool belt if you can sure, if you can play great, that's kind of like entry point, everybody can play great. Uh, but can you connect through what you're playing to like somebody listening to that where they're like they get emotionally affected by it? Or can you make somebody feel seen in the audience who's been wanting, you know, been waiting who knows how long? Um, so I think that's one, and then the other maybe underrated one that um just came to me as I was saying that is just commitment and um like the unrelentless, almost stubborn uh dedication to something, right? I think like if you look across the board on bands or musicians who've quote unquote made it, the common denominator is they just never gave up. Right? So you kind of have to be stubborn in a sense to uh you know to just not give up.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:25

I think those are all great answers. I especially love the the connecting, right? And the the the showmanship, if you will, because maybe it's not underrated, but no one talks about it enough, and it is so important. Like people that those are the shows I remember than the people just standing there. Like, I'm uh I might get some hate for this, but watching a band like Dream Theater, who I will never be as good at, like as far as musicianship goes, it's fucking boring. All right. But then you go watch Symphony X and Russell Allen's being a fucking buffoon on stage, and guess who I'm talking about? Russell Allen and his silly antics and him, as you said, connecting, making you feel seen, you know. Um, so yeah, I 100% love that answer. Might be my favorite answer. So far, it's the first answer, so you don't have much to go against, but I didn't ask Donnie that, but uh no, dude, that was a fantastic answer. I love it, and I might use it um as examples because it is so true and it's so important. Um and you know, let's let's throw some gas your way, dude. You do that exceptionally well, and I've talked about that uh with friends as well. Like your your stagemanship, is that a word? Sure. It's fantastic, you know. Um, and so you you live it, you believe it, you know. You're not just saying it and it shows. Um, and you know, another good example too is like to be able to do that and still play the stuff you're playing, that's important, you know. Some people can't run across that stage while still playing these intense rhythms. And archers, you guys do have some crazy riffs.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:10

Um, so it's a and like I'm not one to say here that I can do that and play things perfectly all the time, but you kind of need to you don't get better at playing perfect while doing that without doing that and trying, right? It's like you kind of gotta do it and be kind of bad at it at first, maybe you're gonna hit some wrong notes, but you kind of gotta, it's like not looking at the guitar and playing. Sure, at first you might hit some wrong notes, but after a while you'll get it. Um but on back to that original point you made, I just want to touch on one last thing here. Uh, it's just like kind of like a common truth here. People don't always remember everything you've said, but they remember how you made them feel, right? Yep. So same thing with a band performing on stage. You're not gonna remember all the notes, all the songs, but you remember how that band made you feel leaving, right? So it's like you have so you have two two different uh scenarios here. You have like one band who are technically great, but they never looked up from their fretboard, never made a connection, didn't even really move on stage. Um, so that's band one. Band two, it kind of sucked, to be honest. Like their songs weren't very good, they're kind of like out of time all the time, but they had so much fun, and because of that, you had so much fun, you didn't even care that they sucked. Like you you just had it was like the funnest set you've ever done, right? Leaving those two shows, like which one are you gonna really like remember, right? It's like it's the one that really like you had fun at, right? You don't even remember where the band was, right? But the other band's like that band was boring, right? So it's like you're gonna remember how you felt, not all the details.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:52

Yeah, and I think that's a good thing to go way back to the whole recording an album versus live mentality, you know, recording, be under that microscope. Live, have a good time. If you fuck up, eh, it's cool, man. Like we get really good at fucking up and not letting the crowd know it. So and if you can give them that show, it doesn't matter, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:16

So yeah, and eventually the the fuck ups will diminish, but your energy will continue to increase.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:25

Right? Like you're gonna you're gonna realize, okay, maybe I gotta tone it back a little bit during this one part so I can like not mess up this part, right? You find your your moments to really uh shine.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:37

Yeah, exactly. And the last question What does being a great rhythm guitarist mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:46

Being a great rhythm guitarist means that I can connect with a broader audience in an emotional way. Um and uh yeah, that's the main thing, right? I th I think being a good rhythm guitarist is uh it means it means also means that like it's I think it's the foundation to a good sounding band is like is is rhythm. So just being for me being part of like a unit and being tight in that unit is is important to me, important meaning, but also right, it's it's allowed me to be able to do what I've done for many decades here, which is you know, play music for for for other people and connect with other people. So that's ultimately what it means to me is is uh to be able to uh connect and enhance other people's moods and you know keep talking about it and inspiring others. Hell yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:50

Well, Grant, thank you so much for being here and doing this, man. It's been great to get a chat with you. Like I said, just just catching up. It's been a while, you know. Life life gets lifey sometimes, and you'll you know, so it's just been cool and getting to talk about all this stuff with you. But um, as we mentioned, Grant Unleashed the archers, you know, soon to be hockey star. Um, is there any is there anything you'd like to plug, even in even if you're person in your personal life right now, um, that anyone listening, you might want them to know? Or just a reminder of who you are, where they can find you. You know, you mentioned you have students. Do you do private lessons? Is there anywhere they can find you for that if they want? Um, just whatever, whatever you want to say. Now's your time.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:31

First thing, yeah, man. Thanks for having me. Uh, yeah, this time flew by. We could probably sit here all day and and chat. So thanks for having me on. It was great to catch up. Uh yeah, I mean, place I hang out the most online is probably Instagram. You can find me there, Grant Fruisdell. At Grant Fruisdell, T-R-U-E-S-D-E-L-L. Uh, we've got uh re-issue, remix, and remastered. Time stands still coming out uh very soon. We're just putting out the earbook, so watch out for that. And uh we're currently writing an EP right now as well. So there's some stuff happening behind the scenes, and uh look forward to getting back out there and playing some shows for people.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:18

Awesome. Yeah, I can't wait. I hope to see you guys again soon. Um, you know, hopefully whatever tours you guys do brings you to California, the California way, you know. Um and yeah, man, like I said, everybody go follow Grant. Uh he's an awesome guy. I've known him for years on a personal level. I love this man. Uh, he's gotten me through many times, so I can't say uh enough nice things about him. So please go follow his stuff. Uh, if you want to join a community of rhythm guitarists uh where we kind of help each other out, lift each other up, uh find the Discord link in the About Me section or wherever it is, you know, give me a follow. Um, you know, we're having more of these coming out, and we're working on building a community around the rhythm guitarist. Uh and yeah, it should be a lot of fun, man. So this this is a new adventure, but I hope to see you guys there, and I'll see you on the next episode.