007 - Olive Gallop (Ice Giant)

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Sitting down with singer/guitarist/songwriter of Ice Giant; Olive Gallop!
Who's got the best gallop pun?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

What's up, Chug Lovers? Right arm masochist. How you doing? Welcome to Tone Chugs in Harmony. We are here with Olive Gallup of Ice Giants, a dear friend of mine. We have known each other for at least a decade now. Uh I'm so stoked to have you here. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Thanks. Yeah, I'm doing great. First off, I gotta say, Tone Chugs in Harmony is that's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

I wish I could take credit for the name. It was actually suggested by Carlos Alvarez. I'm I'm sure you're familiar with him. Oh yeah, my boy. Yeah, yeah. Everyone loves Carlos. Uh, how are you doing? How's your day?

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Oh, I'm just fine, man. Um, you know, it's um you know, it's we're in like the middle of spring. It's getting brighter now. Very grateful for that. Um and um, you know, I um I I have like uh all sorts of planes with Ice Giant coming up, and um there's uh like a couple other cool music opportunities I've got in the tube. Um so I'm really excited for all that stuff. And uh, you know, before all that happens, I'm just kind of at home, uh, you know, making uh making what good I can out of it, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Awesome. I appreciate it, and I appreciate your time. I appreciate you being here. And um, you know, a much better podcaster would have had a really great pun prepared for your last name Gallup. But uh I just wanted to acknowledge that here we are on a rhythm guitar podcast, and the last name is Gallup. Um that's the best I got, but it needed to be acknowledged. So hell yeah, yo, let's go. Uh so as mentioned, Olive is the singer and guitarist of Ice Giant. And what are the most recent things you all are working on right now that you can discuss with us?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

We have a new record in the tube. Um, we uh we've got plans to record the drums in July, uh, which is really exciting. And um the rest of the album is written. And as soon as those drums are edited and finalized, then we're gonna go on to our um our rhythm guitars and um uh you know everything else after that. So that's really exciting. Uh, it'll be our first uh full-length release since Ghost of Humanity in 2023. Um, and we're also tracking a whole other EP along with that. So we will have um our next and subsequent release after this recording session, which is super fun. So you all have been staying busy. Love it. Oh my god, yeah. No, we um when we like got together to pick the crop of songs we were gonna record, we um we got it from 20 uh down to 14. So, you know, like we um I've been very, very happy uh that we've had such creative writing flow uh going on for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

That's awesome. Yeah, and you guys have been crushing the the social medias and really getting it out there, so that's great. Um I I know we will get into guitars, everybody, but let's let's let's stay with Ice Giant a bit because the the genre has shifted a little bit uh uh from your from the earlier stuff, right? Um yeah. So yeah, let's talk about that and maybe your approach with the songwriting and the decision for the shift. Did it happen organically or was it more of like I don't know what was the yeah, was it organic or was it actually like a conscious decision?

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Yeah, so um how best to describe this? I think like the first Ice Giant record, and I feel like this happens a lot with, you know, really anybody, where if you are a new band, even if you've been in bands before, if you're in a new band, I think you might tend to find um music that you write to be kind of derivative of your heroes. And uh, you know, that's fine. Like that's a great way to start, and you find your own after having done that for a while. This very heavy type of power metal that's like super rhythm guitar focused um is um what I want to do. And um, you know, it they even inspired me to even like tune my guitar down a half step as opposed to like any other specific tuning. Um so Iced Earth had a huge um um, what is it, um influence on me. And um, you know, I I was obviously listening to a ton of other bands back then and around then too, like I love like In Flames and like all that like um, you know, Nordic melodic death metal type of stuff. And so I just kind of wanted to shove all of that into one project. Um, and that's how you get songs like At Tyranny's End, which is very like, you know, that one is very like uh the original one of those is very, I think, iced earth coated, but um the new version of it is is much more like symphonic and pretty sounding. Um, but anyway, I'm I'm kind of getting away from myself here, where like the first record was derivative of my heroes, and that's great. Um, but then Ghost of Humanity was where we'd kind of found our footing, we'd found what kind of fans we have, and we decided that maybe um what is it? Um trying something a bit more extreme, a bit more progressive might be uh fun and cool for us. And uh that's how we got ghosts of humanity. And also, this is now um post-incident for Dr. Schaefer. So we started to move away from that a little bit. Um and um I am not joking. I am I am a hundred percent pure straight serious when I say that part of the way that I wrote Ghosts of Humanity was just letting my autism do its thing. Like um, the neurodiversity of it all, I think, allows me to like like find like comfortability with certain or like, you know, just kind of like any time signature and um I don't know, like wacky song structures that like, you know, maybe aren't super conventional and that I'm sure are achievable for many other people through other means. But I know that for me, like just kind of letting my like neurodiverse brain parse through all the parts that we'd come up with and decide what I want to like turn into a song kind of made a lot of these songs. Um, that's how you get ones like maybe uh Home for Eternity, which are just weird, dude. Like that song is weird. Um, so yeah, I guess it to sum that up and answer your question, the style shift happened when we shifted from you know, just kind of mimicking our heroes to really leaning into like what is within us and trying to put that onto paper, so to speak. We also had a lot of personnel changes in that time, too. Um, in fact, I'm the only one that is still here from the original lineup. Um so um, yeah, I think that's that's about the answer there. Um not mimicking as much anymore and leaning into the autism of it all.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Right. Um yeah, and I can relate to that a lot because again, also coming from the the the Schaefer youth of America, if you will. Uh no, no. But dude, 12-year-old Jason, he was innocent, man, but he heard alive in Athens and it changed his life. But my point with this is uh you listen to my album, The Dire Peril album. I mean, that's just iced earth love letter all over it. But the thing is, is like I wrote that even though it came out after the prime album, I wrote it before. And by the time I had done the prime music, I wasn't really playing like that anymore. So it's funny because I always say, like, man, I I would do another peril album someday if I could, but it's like I don't write that way anymore. That inspiration doesn't hit anymore. So it's like I don't know how to explain it. Maybe you get it, but yeah, like you said, you eventually find your own way, and it's like I just don't write that style anymore. And as much as the inspiration had on me when I was younger, it's uh it's not there now. Um, and so yeah, finding your way is great. This is a question unrelated but related. Uh, because sometimes when I listen to like Symphony X and guys like that, and I'm trying to learn their songs, and I'm going through and I'm looking at the time, I'm like, they can't possibly like consciously be sitting here, like, all right, we're gonna go to this time signature and then that time signature, and then this time signature. Like, it's gotta just in its own way naturally come, right? Like you like you said, you just let it flow, and then you figure out, oh, what is this weird fucking thing we've made, you know, but it sounds great.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yeah, I so agree, dude. Cause like I I think of songs of ours that do the same thing. Um, like Serenity of Darkness is a good example where we go uh we oscillate between a measure of 10 and then a measure of 11. 10, 11, 10, 11. And that's the main riff. That's like one of the first ones you hear. And um I didn't sit down to be like, oh yeah, I'm gonna switch between 10 and 11. Like it's just like it's just the riff was cool, it worked out like that. And I was like, all right, like, you know, this is probably how we should count it. So sure. I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

When when I've tried to purposely write in weird time to signatures, it sounds dumb. It sounds like I'm trying to write in a weird time signature, but when it just kind of happens, now I don't do it too often, right? I write in 5'4 and I feel like wow, look at me, dude. You know. Um so so I don't I don't personally get too crazy, but on the rare occasion I dabble, you know. But I'm a pr I'm a 4-4 guy at heart, you know what I mean? I just hell yeah, I do. There's been times where I've had to admit defeat, and I've tried so hard to make a riff work in like a different time signature, but then I'll I'll do it in 4-4 where the groove wants to go, and I'll have to be like, fuck, it just do it, man. It's it's it wants to be in 4-4. Like, don't do it because you want to do it. So it's always, you know. So right, yeah. Yeah. Um, but that's really cool. And then, you know, sticking with songwriting, I know we had talked a little bit before, but what a perfect segue into talking about a little bit about guitar. Um, and how do you feel sort of incorporating you know the rhythm aspect of it with guitar itself into your songwriting? Do you have any tips on that for people?

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Oh man, yeah. Um, I mean, I guess the the best way I can talk about this is um the way that I compose, I I start with my rhythm guitars every time. Cause um I just that's like that that's those are the pieces of a song that inspire me to do something. Like um, you know, I'm never like playing a solo and I'm like, oh, I know what could go good around this. And like I rarely, rarely, rarely have like sung something and been like, I want a certain guitar underneath this. It is like I'd say 90% of the time it starts with something on my guitar, and um and then I write around that, and then you know, whatever comes of it is usually you know decent. I'd say, um, let's see. Like, I don't know, I'm a very like emotionally based guitar player. So like when I when I play something, I like try to suss out kind of like what vibe it's giving. And then that informs me on like, you know, what kind of thing I'm gonna try to put in after it. Um, and you know, just the general tone of of the song. And like I realize that's not exactly like groundbreaking necessarily, but like, you know, I really, I really do try to write with my heart so that um, you know, I can convey a certain emotion. Because that's what I'm trying to do with my songs at the end of the day, anyway, is I'm like, you know, like, yes, I want to write good songs, but also I want to like talk to you, like, so to speak, like in a metaphorical sense. I want to be like, this is what I'm trying to convey here. Maybe we can connect over it even. Um, so I don't know, like, what's a good example of that? We have um um, yeah, like uh we like um, you know, not to keep like name-dropping songs of my own band, but like we have um name them all.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

All right. Okay, well, in that case, you've got turnies and like down the list. But um, fucking um, no, we've got um we've got this song called Unification Epoch, which um is almost like black metal with the way that it's um like trend picked and stuff. And um it's supposed to evoke this feeling of like crushing overwhelm uh and uh anticipation of a long bleakness afterwards, like a similar feeling to what you might get when you say um see a certain president threaten death over an entire country. Um and um, you know, we didn't write that song to mimic that or to uh to reflect that rather, but um just to you know, it's a similar feeling. Maybe that's like something that uh somebody might be able to relate to. So when I have a feeling in my head like that, that's what I try to do. I try to like convert that into a riff somehow, or sometimes it's vice versa. I have a riff that I'm just like, oh, this is like this makes me like you know, sad or angry or whatever, and then the song forms around that kind of is. Did that answer your question, or did I get way off?

SPEAKER_00 15:03

No, you're great, you're great, yeah. Um it did it did lead to a follow-up question though. So um when you work on a riff, is there ever how how often is it where you you got a riff, you like it, and you're like, this is about 90%, this is it? Or no matter what, do you kind of go in with like, all right, this sounds cool, but what other chords can I try? Or maybe the picking rhythm could be a little different. All right, I'm doing a gala, but what if I do all 16th notes? Like, how how much do you mess with a riff before you kind of like this is the one, you know?

SPEAKER_01 15:44

I usually give myself two or three passes at it because like if I let myself workshop forever, then I will workshop forever. And like I, you know, I just I just don't have time. I have thing other things to do. But if I let myself get like two or three versions of it, then I can pick the one that's best, and then you know, that kind of informs my decision making down the line, then nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

And and like like I feel you on that, like we gotta put limits on ourselves because there's a thousand ways we could do it, you know. Um, and that's that's even with full songs, right? Like at a certain point, you gotta call it, you know. They always say the song's not done till it's done or recorded, right? And then out. But there have been times where I'm like, I gotta walk away because I'm changing this and then I'm changing that, and then at a certain point, you know. So I totally feel you there. Um what's been the sort of you have found the hardest thing to really grasp uh with rhythm guitar? And maybe another way to ask it is uh the most important thing?

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Uh yeah, for sure. Um I can answer that in two ways. Um, and one of them is in the like songwriting fashion of like, you know, after I've picked something and like I've gotten my two to three passes and I need to like either pick one or just walk away. I get such bad decision paralysis there um that I've had to like learn a couple of like questions to ask myself to make sure that I can just keep flowing and um you know not like get stuck at like a big crossroads um or something like that. And I'm grateful that oftentimes the answer to that is just to be like, hey, folks in my band, I have this thing, I think it's really cool, but needs tweaks in a couple places. Have it, and then they'll uh you know, they'll come back to me um, you know, whenever they've been able to look at it, um, which is really cool. But um the other part is that um Ice Giant is a super uh technical band. Um and so I need to figure out sometimes like what actually am I physically capable of playing? Because like I'll give you an example, like I had to learn how to consistently be able to do Grand Devil's Machine because the riff is fucking bitching. When I wrote that for the first time, actually, oh my god, let me tell you how I wrote that the first time. So I wrote the the that riff maybe in like 2017 or 18, I forget. And um, I was such a dickhead back then. I made uh I tuned up one of my guitars from standard to F, a half step up to F, which is like, bitch, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Like the the only other song I know of that does that is the Transformers theme song. What? Yeah because I remember when I had to learn it, I was like, what in the fuck is this? Yeah, so you and the Transformers theme song. There you go. Good, it's it's good company. Good company, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Oop as hell. Let's go. So I fucking um I had that happen, and um then I wrote um this riff that was like pedaling off the low string, which was an F, um, to make Grand Evil's machine. And like it was fine because I could just like you know hop around doing like a bunch of opens and hammer-ons and stuff. But then it came time to turn that into an ice giant song, and we are seven strings and a half steps down. So it went from being open to seventh fret. And I'm like, what? Like, okay, how do I do this? Um, but you know, over um the um many years since writing that riff and then putting it on Ghosts of Humanity, I was able to uh to learn, which was really good and necessary. But it took learning, and it reminded me that when I write like that, I need to actually like decide whether this is something that I can learn to do, or um if I need to like simplify it, because it's like this is gonna take too much time, or like this is actually just impossible. And uh it reminds me of um a new song that we're writing for the next record, um, which I can't tell you about, but um uh it's in the um it's in the same vein of this is one of the most bitchin' hard things I've ever done, and I need to like learn how to do this, or else we can't do the song. So um it seems I have not learned my lesson yet, I guess is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

That's okay. Um you actually reminded me of another question I wanted to ask you, but I'll let you if you're not done with your thought, go ahead. No, I'm done. Yeah, that's good. So, this actually something I wanted to ask you specifically. What have you have found challenging about being a guitar player and singer? And what advice do you have for someone who might want to pursue that to really lock in and focus on to be able to achieve it and play the complicated shit you're playing, or to play shit like Megadeth and Metallica or Death Trivium, right, while singing? Because I've tried to do even backing vocals sometimes, and it's not something that I actively work on, and even sometimes just vacuum backing vocals, I'm like, what? Yeah, so I applaud all people who do both. So sorry, a little tangent, but the qu yeah, to reiterate the question, yeah. What advice, tips, and your own experiences do you have to really make that a stronger thing to do for someone?

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Uh, you're gonna hate practicing it, but as soon as you get it, you're gonna feel like the coolest person in the fucking world. Like I just straight up, like it's um because the way to practice it, at least what worked for me, was to slow the guitar down so that when you practice it, you're not even fucking thinking about it by the time it's back to full speed. Like, slow it down, practice it at That speed, speed it up a little, practice that, and then back, back, back, up, up, up until you're at full speed. Same as you would, you know, memorizing any new way of playing something. And um man, um, it just sucks hard up. But like then, once you've got it and you're like, okay, let me see if I can add some voice on top of this. And then you fuck yourself up because you're like, oh, now I'm using a part of my brain that I wasn't practicing. So then you go back and you practice the vocal alone by itself, which also sucks. And then you do the same thing. Like I did the same thing, rather, where on I practiced it nice and slow, got it up to speed, and then like just further and further until both parts were so comfortable that I could kind of make it through doing both at the same time. And once I kind of got it, I was like, oh, okay, so this is possible. And then, you know, a couple practices several tours later, now I can sing and play Grand Evil's Machine like I've always like, like, you know, like I was born to, right? And that's just the most cool fucking thing ever. I love seeing videos that people take of Ice Giant playing that song, uh, you know, partially because I'm really proud of that song, but also because I know what effort it took to get there. Um, so yeah, that's my answer is you gotta do it manually. It's gonna take a long time and it's gonna blow. But by the time you get it, and you're looking at yourself being like, holy shit, I could do this, like, and like you see like a video of you doing it, you're like, I'm the coolest person in the world, actually. And then that motivates you to do it again.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Hell yeah. Um, I really for this podcast, I I gotta come up with like an alarm sound every time someone says the magic words, which is take it slow. Because I I I think that's I think that's gonna be the big lesson for everyone listening. Because so far, without fail, every episode we've all come to that. What do you do? Oh, you take it slow. And people people hate to fucking hear it, but it's the truth. Um, and the thing is, is you're always gonna be doing it. So uh talking to just go back real quick. I I had Donnie on, um, and so we were talking about a riff that he did on one of the Cradle of Phil songs, and he said it used to be like an uh a finger exercise for him, but it turned into a riff, and he's like, Everyone always plays it wrong, and I was like, I want to learn it. Uh, I posted a video of me doing it, but dude, took me two fucking hours yesterday, and that might not seem like a long time, but for the for the riff it is and how long I've been playing, two hours felt like a fucking long time for something that should be simple. But I had to sit there and just d d d so it's like even now, like you gotta just take a slow to f to see all the little details. And so essentially what I'm here it's it's no matter what, is what it sounds like lead guitar, rhythm guitar, singing and playing, slow down, take a breath, just you know. And it the thing is, is like you said, it's so worth it once you can do it, once you can see yourself. You see a video that a fan has taken, and you're like, oh, fuck yeah, that's me, you know. Um it feels good, even even without a video, man. Like when I when I finally did Donnie's uh riff the other day, I was like, Yeah, I did it, you know. Um it just feels good. So taking us in the moment, taking it slow might seem like you're wasting your time, but if you just play fast, then you're gonna build these muscle memory habits that are sloppy, and it's really that's what's gonna hold you back because eventually you're gonna have to go back and slow down. Like there's just no way around it. Practice, slow down. It's the slow is the magic word. So it's gonna be like Pee-Wee's Playhouse, and you're gonna have the word of the day. And every time someone says slow, I'm gonna have a button. In fact, you know what? That's happening. That's happening, everybody. Next episode, I'm getting the Pee-wee sound effect when they have the word of the day. As soon as someone says slow, that's going off.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Cool. That's rad, dude. Yeah. And I just want to add one more thing to this whole this this part where um I want to remind folks like why why did you start playing guitar in the first place? Like, why are why are you here? Why are you doing this? Is it because you wanted to like, I don't know, impress somebody? Like, uh, or is it because um, you know, maybe like a bunch of your friends are doing it? And those are fine reasons. I'm not actually knocking those at all. But like at the heart of it, even if those those factors are present, isn't it because heavy metal is the sickest thing in the fucking world? Like, isn't it because you wanted to do that too? Like, and I apologize for naming another problematic character here, but like when I was 14 and watching Dimebag um, you know, do um Monsters of Rock in um in um what is it? Um in uh um Moscow, I was fucking um blown away. I was like, yo, I want to do that too. And you know, here I am 23 years later still playing a Razorback. Like here, you do heavy metal because it's the sickest thing in the world. Why did you learn to play rhythm guitar in the first place? Why did you learn lead guitar in the first place? If you're a vocalist, why did you learn to do that too? Because it's sick, dude. It's so cool. And then maybe it does impress your friends, maybe it does like um, you know, fulfill something really deep within you. That's awesome! All of that in conjunction turns this into um, you know, an act in heavy metal community where we are, you know, doing art with each other and building this wonderful thing. And I think if you can remember that, because that's a lot of what it took for me, while you're doing this grueling practicing, trying to learn how to be like a singer vocalist, or singer vocalist, oh my god, a singer-guitar player, um, or anything like that, just remember what it's for. Because then one day you will get that video and you're like, wow, that's awesome. Or you'll like hit that satisfying moment, like what you mentioned with getting Donnie's riff down and just like, ah, this rules absolutely. And then, you know, it just makes it all worth it again. Uh, for all you Lubis fans out there, um, what I did with uh with this guitar, this string, the super low one. Well, actually, I let's get some anticipation going. This is a regular old 10 to 52 set up the uh the sixth string here. Um, but the seventh string is a fucking 80.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Yeah, uh half step down, 24 and three quarter inch scale. Yeah, 24 and three quarter on a seven string. Interesting. But um fucking um, this is an 80, dude, which I learned how to do from Loomis because um I use these fat fuck uh 4.2 picks, and like I dig the fuck into my strings. And so just to have this makes it so I can like like really like bludgeon that low string and it doesn't move, it doesn't go out of tune, like it's there's nothing to worry about. So um that's pretty cool. Um yeah, listen to nevermore. Nevermore is cool as fuck. Nevermore.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Um yeah, dude, we'll get Jeff Loomis on next, don't worry. Um what's he up to? Yeah. Um so yeah, we I actually talked a bit about um gear a little bit on the last episode as well, but yeah, all that stuff too really does matter. I'm a big fan of heavy gauge strings. Um I don't go as far as 80, uh, but I've never tried. I might like it. But I love a good heavy set, I love heavy picks. You know, I use these big ass fucking picks, you know. Um and I love I love a heavy guitar too, you know. Just I I want to feel like I'm fighting my guitar when I'm when I'm hitting those downstrokes. Like it could be all psychological, but to me, I'm like, it makes it heavier, you know? So it does make a difference. Yeah. Sure, yeah. So totally on let's go, we're gonna go backwards now a little bit uh in time. But what were things for you starting out when you were learning guitar? Um, more so, what were things that really locked in the importance of rhythm playing? That could be anything from like uh locking in with timing, or you know, like you like you mentioned Schaefer and Iced Earth as an influence and other bands, you know, like in Flames and stuff. Also very, very rhythm oriented. It's very different, but very groovy, very rhythm, very melodic. Um, was there a moment we started to realize how important like with what we do, the stuff we play, the importance of locking in, the importance of paying attention to every little note you play?

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yeah, totally. So there's there's two big things I want to mention here. Uh, you mentioned one of them already, which is just being like locked in, where like if like if you, the other guitar player and your drummer, I guess the bass player can come too. Yeah, um if all of you are fucking lockstep with a crazy riff, and like you can just hear it and you know it's on point, like there is no better feeling. I feel like you know, this is like a more than the sum of its parts moment where we become this like like Titanic riff machine that will kill you if we continue to, you know, be as um uh you know synced up as we are. So getting hip with the metronome and uh being able to do uh to do that um with myself and then with bands uh was a huge part of what made me feel like, okay, this is what makes rhythm guitar uh good. Like just period. Um and the other thing was speed. I um I like I love speed in every way, whether it be playing guitar or driving a car, like like speed is my friend for sure. So back when um back when I was first learning how to do it and had like very poor um muscle memory as far as speed went, I um I would try my best to even just get like six teeth notes going um to a metronome or to a track that I like. And um, you know, once I felt like I could do it consistently, like I wasn't getting tired, I was like in lockstep with the rhythm there, I was like, okay, great, wow. This is like this, like again, it's that like you know, part of the machine feeling of like we're we are going to, you know, whether I'm talking about just me in a track or like me in a band, like we are going to make a sound so great that uh just everybody's gonna love it. Of course, of course they are. Um, so yeah, uh speed and precision, I guess, is uh the the couple of things that uh really motivated me to be like rhythm guitar is good and um you know really, really important to uh like keep track of. And I I guess I especially want to highlight that on the heels of like super young me who was like guitar solos are the only thing that matter. Like you know how we all were when we were teenagers, right? Like, you know, that's I feel like that's a relatively common experience. Um so making the shift away from that and into like okay, like rhythm is really important, was appreciating how sick precision marksmanship on a guitar feels and how exhilarating doing it at fast paces.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Yeah. Yeah, you know, I uh I used to be when I was I would argue young Jason, like 16 to 19, was a better fucking War Thug was a better lead guitarist than I am now. Like I was ripping through fucking because again, I was, you know, I I did it more, I paid more attention to it, and I always liked rhythm. I was always I've always been a rhythm first guy, but it's just because of who I grew up listening to, you know, Hetfield, Schaefer, um, even fucking uh, you know, I was really into thrash in the younger years, and so you know, you want to talk about tight fucking rhythm players, look at thrash metal, you know. Um straight up, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, testament, creator, all those guys. So it's just like it naturally just came to me. But I played a lot of leads. I was I was actually really good with like Blind Guardian stuff. And I bring that up because you mentioned again, like when we were younger, uh, you know, a lot more focused on it. And then I just started playing with people who were better than me at solos, and I was like, ah, you handle it, I'll take care of it, I'll take care of those.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

I apologize to cut you off, but um, God, you mentioned like the thrash, the old school thrash people. Man, I fucking tried to learn that song uh Payback by Slayer a while ago, and um God, it was a bitch! Like it's like not doing it as fast as Carrie King is right now. It's like like and he does it for like the whole fucking song. It's like, how, dude? Like what anyway, yeah. All to agree with you. Thrash tight rhythm players, it's that's where to find him.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Oh yeah, oh yeah. Um, yeah, there's they're you know, because they were playing, you know, 210, 215. That was just they just woke up. That was just their walk in the park, kind of like, yeah, sure, we'll do this. Um and uh yeah, that's from what uh uh God hates us all, right? Payback? Right, yeah, dude. That was like my high school that album. I listened to that so much. Yeah, man. That was one of the first albums that really introduced me to like down tuning because I still like didn't uh know what down tuning was, and so like I'd be learning songs like bloodlines and stuff. And uh I mentioned this before with like an at the gate song, but it was the same thing in this situation. I'm like learning these songs, I'm like, why do they sound so wrong? Dude, because I didn't know what you know alternate tuning was, so I was playing everything in standard. Do you remember this? Is totally like off topic, but do you remember the excitement when you first discovered like distortion and like how it changed your life? Like, oh, it all makes so much sense, dude.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Dude, so this is this is not exactly like discovering distortion, but it was more like when I discovered what a drive pedal could do. I'm sorry, I cut out. What was that? What a drive pedal could do, okay. Where like fucking I got my first Ibanez TS9, and I had a uh a Randall RM100 at home, which is a fine amp, fine distortion, but it just wasn't giving me the juice that I wanted. And then eventually I put the TS9 in the chain, like no noise gate, no nothing. It was just me drive amp, and fucking um I gave it like the classic um like um drive all the way down, volume all the way up, tone all the way up, like just that like like slightly gritty boost, essentially. And man, oh like it went from being like, why don't I sound like my favorite albums to like whoa, this is cool, like hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

No, I love it, I love it because I was already learning stuff like where Eagles Dare and Master of Puppets before I knew what the fuck distortion was. Uh and then the same buddy that I always credit who got me into like power metal shit, the guy who showed me Iced Earth, Guardian, pretty much all the metal that because before that, like I knew Metallica, but like I was listening to fucking like Lincoln Park and shit, and I was like, this is fucking this is metal, dude. You know, I didn't know. Um, that same dude was like, Oh, hey, watch what happens when you hit this button on your amp. And I was just like, Oh my god, like yeah, it's so funny though, because in my little kid mind, I was like, This sounds just like Metallica now. It probably sounded awful, but to me, I was like, I'm there, I'm there.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Yeah. I hear you, man.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

So we went on a little tangent. Let's circle back. I did I did want to dig a little into something you mentioned. So one of the things you mentioned that really locked in for you with rhythm was right the speed and precision. What really helps you with that? Uh, other than the magic word start slow, what were things that really helped you achieve that when you were first starting out and starting to understand and lock in with these things?

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Um I was a very impatient kid. Um I wanted to be good at things like instantly. And um, you know, that's just not a thing. Period. Like you can't just be instantly good at something. Some people are gifted, but like don't count on it. And um I uh I'm once again being completely serious when I say I had to learn how to go fuck myself a little bit, um, like you know, as like a disciplinary action of like, you know, instead of being like, oh, I tried this thing isn't good. Um, so you know, it must not be for me. It's like do yourself, go practice, like, come on. Um, or like um, I'd get something kind of close to what I wanted, but like it wasn't there. But I'd be trying to convince myself that, like, oh, I totally got it. No, go fuck yourself, like that's not it. Um, and then that would go back to you guessed it, slow it down, and like, you know, just practice, practice, finally get what you want.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Um, and all that stuff. So, you know, I apologize don't have necessarily any more techniques uh to espouse about currently, but as a disciplinary action, it's okay to lovingly, keyword lovingly, tell yourself, go fuck yourself. Um that's how I phrase it. Maybe instead you want to use a little less uh expletive or be like even less mean, blah, blah, blah. But I know when I say that to myself, it is with love and it is also with firmness. You're not done yet. Go back there.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Now, that's not to say, everyone, it's not okay to take a quick little break, but then once you've taken a break, you must go fuck yourself again. Uh 100% correct. Absolutely. Yeah. Need a break, do it again. Absolutely. Great, totally, fantastic. Love it. Um, okay, we we we kind of touched on this already, maybe, but how has this sort of uh worked with your role within Ice Giant? Um are you, you know when so I I think what I mean is like when recording, because I know like with a lot of bands, my bands included, there's there's one person who tracks the rhythm. Do you guys have a designated rhythm tracker for Ice Giant, or do you share the responsibilities?

SPEAKER_01 42:01

If you are going to be playing Ice Giant music and you are in the band, you are on the recording. So I will record my parts, Eddie records his parts, Dan records his, jazz records hers, and then we're off to the races. Um, I am a big proponent of making the studio track the best version of what you might hear in like a live setting. Um, you know, obviously subtracting the actual live setting itself. So, like, no, like, you know, you can't listen to stage moves on a CD run. But um, as far as the music itself, I want it to be a performance of the band. And so um, you know, the way we're doing it right now is uh jazz is gonna record to um either demos or guitar pro exports um that we've uh given to her for um tracking that's gonna happen later uh in the season, or sorry, next season, I should say. Um, and then Eddie and I will use those to record our respective parts. Um, and then Dan will do the same with his bass and then vocals, and then I believe we'll do orchestrations last uh and then off to Mix and Master. So yeah, there's no designated rhythm player. It's whatever you're gonna play live, that's what you're playing on the record. And Eddie and I switch off. There are some places where Eddie takes a takes a solo and I'm doing holding down the rhythm and you know, vice versa, blah, blah, blah. Like, I wouldn't say there's a lead guitar player in Ice Giant. It's kind of just whoever wants to express themselves at this given moment. Um, like um, no, I I I wish I could go into more details, but uh these are songs that we haven't released yet, so I can't talk about them. No spoilers. But um, yeah, but there's plenty of points where, like, you know, I'm feeling great just holding down the fucking groove, and Eddie is. Like taking center stage and going nuts.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Um, and I love seeing that. Like it's uh yeah, yeah, I love seeing that. And honestly, you know, this actually ties into another piece that I can mention where um part of benevolently go fuck yourself that I had to learn for me was um, you know, I used to have such a fucking ego about um, you know, what it was to be a heavy metal guitar player. Like when I was a teenager and even in my young 20s, I was like, I've gotta be the best, I've gotta be center stage, it's gotta be about me, me, me. But um man, I um I learned how to let um, or you know, not that I was letting anybody do anything, my bandmates all have free will, but like, you know, I had to learn that other people taking the spotlight and doing those things was just as sick as when I would do it. And so watching Eddie go and take a solo nowadays fills my heart with fire. Where I'm like, you know, I can step back and be like, look at that motherfucker go. Like, let's go. Um, or hell um, oh my god, this is what I can talk about because the song's been out for a while. But um, Dan coming forth to do his crazy eight-finger tapping bass solo on Grand Evil's machine is like, what? That's so cool, that's unbelievable. So um, yeah, fucking um there's no rhythm guitar player in Ice Giant because we all switch off and try to express ourselves at um you know at the points where it's most appropriate or whoever's most excited to do it. And um I s I I say so because or or rather, and then in addition, because of that, I I felt it necessary to express like that. That's been a part of my growing journey is um you know, finding that sort of collaboration effort to be um even cooler, honestly, than just me doing the damn thing all the time.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Right. I can definitely relate not so much with uh the recording part of it, but uh the younger self and for me songwriting in the early years, it's like I have to write everything because all the guys it it again, it's the whole mimicking your idol kind of thing. All the guys I look up to, they are the sole songwriters. So I was so fucking like someone be like, I wrote a riff, I just be like, excuse me, cool, good for you. Uh that has you dad. Yeah, straight up. Wow, cool. Let's put that on the fridge. Um, that has completely changed now, and I welcome because being more collaborative in the last you know, five plus years. Um it's like, oh wow, um yeah, you have better ideas than me sometimes. Uh and it makes this song infinitely better. Like the last Prime song we did, Pandemonium. I had that intro. Thank you. I had the intro riff for so long, and I I was like, Oh, something's missing. And Alan, uh the lead guitarist, he wrote this little diddly, and it was only like the intro, and then it went into my riff, and I was like, let me see something. And I put the lick over my riff, and I was like, oh shit, that was the missing piece. Uh so it's just like, you know what, dude, like calm that ego because you're gonna get bad at you're gonna get badass shit that way. Um go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

That that happened to us with um um our our song Legacy, where I had had uh a couple of riffs kicking around and it um it was alright, you know, like it's it was very like monotonous and repetitive. And then Eddie fucking took that song and he came back with it, and now it's the song that it is, and I could have never, I could have never written that fucking song, but he did. Like he took what was available and he made it into the closer for Ghosts of Humanity, which is just incredible. So, anyway, all to agree because I've gone through the same thing of like you just give it to somebody else, and suddenly it's like, oh, okay, that's exactly what was missing. Sweet. Yep. Never mind, let's go. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

Um, okay, we're gonna we're gonna go back to the recording real quick. So when I had a question, so yeah, uh, some tips and advice that you would give. Because uh talking about, right? So with Ice Giant, if you play the part live, you track it, right? So what advice do you have for a band or guitarist working together who want to take that approach? Because some people like that, and it's great, right? Because again, you got guys like me where all right, I'm the rhythm guy, I do the rhythm, you're the lead guy, you do the lead. So when it comes to tracking rhythm, all I gotta worry about is locking in with myself, but I know how I played it. So, what steps do you guys take when there's a rhythm part? Because I assume you um, you know, quad track and stuff like that, as um, and so what steps do you guys take to make sure like y'all are locked in together, you know, with the recording?

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Yeah, so I think I touched on this a little bit, but um, we're gonna start with having um jazz's finished drums ready to go. So, you know, whatever you're tracking to here, this is what's going on the record. So there's kind of like there's not a lot of room for interpretation as to like what what it's going to vibe like. And so you can make that as like as like you can make that vibe like as sharp and honed as it possibly can be with that. Um, and then you're right about um multi-tracking. Um each of uh Eddie and I uh each double track, so for a total of four tracks, but you know, it's just uh two tracks between the two of us. Um and um you know that's just as a result of like drilling, drilling, drilling. Um, and then you know, like it's it's a it's a studio album, like, you know, there's gonna be some edits made. So like, you know, of course, you know, if you if you have like a first half of a great track, and then your second take is the second half of that great track, just and you know that's the you know that that that's just a thing that that uh that that happens in the studio. I'm sure every guitar player here can relate. Um but um but yeah, so it's uh I don't know, like I guess other than that, what works best for me is just to have like a nice environment to do it. Like this is my room that I'm in right here, which is you know, it's plenty nice. I've got um I've got um, you know, my um my big ass Randall right behind me here, and um fucking um my 12 string and uh you know just all my all my little things are here, all my things are here, which is nice. Um but um this um this recording cycle, we're going up to my grandfather's house. Um he uh he's passed, but um he uh passed the house down to um his four kids, which includes my mother. Um, and so you know, we just get to use it whenever my family feels like it. And um Ice Giant is gonna go up there to record the drums, and then Eddie and I, um, if we have time, we'll be um, you know, doing some rhythm tracking while we're up there as well. And I I truly feel like just having like the comfy environment. And honestly, this goes for like any work period. Like, if you have the comfy environment, you're just gonna do better.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

I would so like you know 100% agree. Yeah, I was just gonna say it could change the mood, and that is so important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

Set yourself up for success in that, in that uh, in that sense. Because like, you know, I could sit here and tell you like drill, baby, drill, as far as well, you know, what playing guitar goes. But like there's so many other non-work factors that go into it. Hydrate, I don't know. Fuck like that, that kind of shit.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

So let me ask it a little more specific. Um so I think so. Another way to ask what I think what I was what I was getting at is you got one particular section, right? Maybe a verse. So it's a verse riff, and you're tracking one side, the other guitarist is tracking the other side. Do you two make sure you are both playing the exact same thing, or do you allow little embellishments that reflect each player's style?

SPEAKER_01 52:54

Ah, that's a great question. And yeah, the embellishments I think are good. Like, you know, it's it's not that like, you know, we let each other do like kind of willy-nilly, but like if somebody does something that's a little different, and we're like, oh, actually that's ball, and yeah, keep that in, then like I feel like that adds to the uh the more organic feeling of it, um, which I really value in a band. Like, you know, I want a band to sound like a band. So like if Eddie like does like a sick bend out of nowhere, I'm just like, oh yeah, we gotta keep that. Or like if Jazz just like breaks out this random fill that um uh that you know she hadn't been doing before, but it sounds great, it's like, yeah, keep it, fuck it.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

Awesome. Yeah, and I and I think that's great. And there's there is uh admittedly a lot of that organicness missing, and in my stuff too. Like, I'm a stifler for like, nah, dude, whatever I track on this side, it's gonna be the same on this side. But that's the play style, and so it's it's really great that you guys want that like to showcase everybody all together. Like, if that's the way they're playing it, that's the way they're playing it, you know. Like, like obviously, you if they start getting jazzy on you as out of key, I don't know, if it works, it works, right? Who knows? Who's to say? Um, but I love that. I love that. So, and what's cool about that too is like it makes me myself and everyone listening do this. Like, go back and like listen now to the ice giant stuff, and like really listen to both sides, you know. Um, because I think you know, I don't think about it really too much. Uh, because you know, there are like quote standard ways that people track, right? And like that's why I said like a lot of people, you got the guy who does the rhythm, he does the rhythm. Um, so sometimes you just think you just assume. Um, so I like to hear these kind of things. Um, because it's like, oh, I want to go back and can I guess which side is olive, you know. Um, dude, you gotta throw in little Easter eggs for the fans, like, hey, who can find this thing in this song? I don't know. Totally, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:07

Go uh go listen to our song called Legacy. It's the last track on the ghost of humanity. And um, particularly, this is unfortunate, unfortunately, this is a lead guitar section, but um um at the end there's a fired. But um at the end, there's a dueling lead guitar section where um um one of our solos comes after the others, and uh see if you can guess uh who's who's see if you can figure out which one's Eddie and which one's me. Um and if you need more reference, we do the same thing on The Tale of Rowanam, where um there's again dueling lead guitar solos, and uh see if you can guess which one's Eddie, which one's Louv. All right, we'll do.

unknown 55:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

Challenge guitar.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

Olive, it was great to have you here today. I love chatting about everything. Before we get you out of here, though, we always end with a couple of rapid fire questions. They could be completely random. They are completely random because today I forgot to write some down, so I'm just they're just coming off the cuff, baby.

SPEAKER_01 56:11

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:12

So, first one, who is a a guitarist you would love to have uh appear on a song someday as a guest?

SPEAKER_01 56:20

If any. Oh my god. Gosh, that's uh wow, that's uh you can have more than one answer.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

I'll allow it.

SPEAKER_01 56:29

Uh uh. Well, I mean, I would have said Alexi Leho, but unfortunately that can't happen anymore. Um maybe um um that guy Sammy, who's uh doing the Bodum reunion stuff, he's awesome. Nice. And um he uh so his band is lost science, and um man, he's a good guitar player, and like he he harbors the spirit of Alexi very well. So like I feel like since Alexi's dead, Sammy can be a next good option. Although also fucking Rupe uh Rupe Latvala is still alive. Like maybe we just get him. Like, if it's not a parent, Children of Botum is a dear, dear, dear favorite of mine. So any guitarist associated, if they ended up on a song of mine, I'd be over the moon. That'd be awesome. Um and any uh any other guitarists uh that I could think of are all just like my fellow like trans femme dolls who love to play guitar. So like I don't know, Eve Flack, Avery Green, like any of those folks, if they ended up on a song of mine, I'd be so excited.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

I haven't heard Eve, but Avery's so fucking good. That'd be Avery's great for sure.

SPEAKER_01 57:45

Yeah, do check out Eve Flack, though. She is so sick. Oh my god. Um, she's uh cool with it. Like she's uh, you know, definitely a child of like uh like um you know your contortionists and polyfias and all that stuff. Um she has a band, it's called Myth of I, and uh God, they rule. Um actually, also she wrote the guitars, that band Quadvium, which is um uh Giorgio and uh I'm blanking on that other motherfucker's name. It's it's two bass players, two like absolutely insane metal bass players, and then she wrote the guitar for it, which is like what like awesome. Anyway, check out Eve Flack. That's that's all I'm saying right now. Okay, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:29

Hell yeah. Awesome. Okay. What band or bands would you love Ice Giant to go on tour with?

SPEAKER_01 58:37

Uh Children of Botum Reunion, Amana Marth. Um yeah, yeah, yeah. Easy, right? Yeah, right. Uh Amona Marth, um, Gojira, and uh Lincoln Park. I'm dead serious. Like that's cool. Um fucking um Dan, our keyboard keyboard, oh my god, our bass player, he plays keys for other bands. I got confused. Um Dan, our bass player, um, his favorite band is Lincoln Park, and we also love Lincoln Park, the rest of us. So like if that happened, that'd be crazy. But anyway, that would be fun.

SPEAKER_00 59:12

I also love Lincoln Park. Yeah. Uh great. Funny enough, this kind of leads into the next rapid fire question. But who inspires you outside of heavy metal?

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Oh, wonderful, wonderful question. Um gosh, I'm trying to think. I I know I have them. I'm just like, ah, like who whoops?

SPEAKER_00 59:41

Let me I'll expand the question. Who or what inspires you outside of metal? Uh movie soundtrack. Okay, yeah. Movies themselves.

SPEAKER_01 59:49

Well, actually, so I did I did think of a I did think of a who. Okay. Um you know, in horribly turbulent political times. I'm a trans person. I don't think I really need to explain why that makes it stressful for me in current times. So the folks that inspire me right now are the ones who are actively fighting against um regime-curated oppression against my people. And that could be anybody from like the actual politicians who are fighting. Uh, shout out my own representative, Ed Markey, uh, and then uh representative Zoe Zephyr from Montana, who um I'm forgetting exactly what they just won today, but I think due to her efforts, Montana just won um like a massive uh trans protection bid today, which is incredible. Um so it can go from like the politicians themselves all the way up to like, I don't know, Rage Against the Machine, who like when their reunion was happening were being like, hey, uh they're um like sending people to El Salvador to die. Like that's what your government is doing right now. Hi, we're rage against the machine, one of the most popular rock bands ever. Um, and like, yeah, respect. Let's go. Cool. Like, let's get them. It's uh it's real, real cool stuff. So um, yeah, active fighters, I guess, are who inspire me. Um, oh, I also want to shout out um my uh my friend Scraps. Um, they are um they're my neighbor here, and um they and I co-produce um our Slag entertainment showcase where we do heavy metal bands and drag burlesque and uh pole performers. So like uh last weekend we had um Adamantis and Graviton in their literal blacksmithing metal shop, a literal working metal shop um with um dancers on the pole and uh like drag numbers and burlesque numbers being done at the same time. And if that's not the thing I've ever fucking heard of, I don't know what is.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:12

And the proceeds the proceeds from that went to the uh the loose immigration justice hotline as well. So the fact that they are a crucial component of making that effort happen, we would not have those showcases without them and their access to that space. So they inspire me a lot, uh, which is really cool. I think I can leave it there. That's a good amount of insight. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:34

And you know what? That's a great answer. That's a great answer. I love it. Yeah. Um final question. Any last bit of advice for aspiring guitarists in the genre? Um, and this this can just be anything, does not have to be rhythm focused. You said a lot of great things this podcast, so if if you feel you said it all, that's cool. But if there's any last bit of motivation you got for him.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:01

Always rem- I already said this basically, but always remember why um your specific genre. I feel like everybody who's watching this is gonna be into rock or metal or whatever, but always remember why your music feels good to you. Because you can get lost in the, you know, watching influencers um and people who've just been at the craft for longer um demotivate you. Remember why this music is cool to you. So that when you're a kid like I was, sitting in my room, wondering why my RM100 didn't sound like uh Dimebag's fucking um uh uh Century 200. I uh I can remember that okay, it's because I'm practicing, it's because eventually I'll sound good, and maybe I just need to get a TS9. You know what I mean? Like so essentially just remember why it's important to you to do this, and be patient. You'll get there. Promise.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:08

Awesome, awesome. That is all of Gallup, everybody, from Ice Giant. Um, now is your moment. Please tell everyone where they can find you, where they can find your bands. Um anything, anything you need to plug for yourself? Now is the time. Anything we didn't touch on already, uh go for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:27

Cool, cool, cool. You can follow my Instagram at live gallop, that's L-I-V-G-A-L-L-O-P, underscore music, or you can follow my band Ice Giant, that's I-C-E, G-I-A-N-T, underscore band on Instagram. Uh, please go ahead and uh check out Ice Giant's uh not Instagram, uh Band Camp as well. Um if you're local to Boston, uh we have shows coming up this summer. Uh one that's already announced is we're gonna be in um in Worcester with a verse, uh, which are some of our dear friends. And um also um we will do another of our slaghags event, heavy metal and drag. It's the coolest thing in the world. And um that's probably gonna happen like next season, um maybe like early fall. So uh just keep uh keep an eye out for those events. If you follow uh both of those pages I mentioned, I am so sure that um you will uh be informed of it. So uh oh, and uh Ice Giants uh actively recording our um our next full length. So just stay tuned. There's gonna be plenty of cool stuff. Also, also also uh if you're in the Denver area, come see Ice Giant at Mile High uh as well. Um we're gonna have a fucking lot of fun out there. It's gonna be our first time going that far west. Um so hopefully we'll see you there. Fuck you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:52

Hell yeah. Uh also la uh uh correct me if I'm wrong, but uh for you personally, I believe you give guitar lessons, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

I do. I do give guitar lessons. In fact, if you are um if you are queer and if you uh are looking for somebody who is uh you know like you who um is really interested in heavy metal and can uh can get down about uh you know what it's like to be um you know of our population in heavy metal, um then please, please, please hit me up. I do have uh open schedule slots right now and I would love to work with you. Um hell yeah, absolutely. Um and actually, my very last shout out, um, you may notice I have a very tasty looking um woven bodysuit that I'm wearing right now. So first huge shout out to Kristen Allgood and also just the Allgood family. Love you guys, hell yeah. Um but also if you would like a yeah, if you would like a custom snazzy band shirt uh made into something beautiful like this, I do customs um at a reasonable price. And uh if you want to look good with your band shirts, uh I will turn them into something cool. Please um uh feel free to hit me up if you got something like that as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:13

Awesome. Well, once again, thank you so much, Oliver, for being here. It's always a pleasure to see you, even if it's over a screen. Um you know, I might have to I might have to hit up Mile High now. We'll see. Um, so thank you again so much. Thank you everybody for listening. If you made it this far, please share the podcast, uh, comment, rate, all that stuff. It helps get the word out there. We are trying to, you know, build a fun place for uh aspiring rhythm guitar players. Join the community, the rhythm dominion, if you want to be with other like-minded people where we help each other out, uh, give feedback, share riffs, whatever else works. Uh, join the Discord, and uh, we'll see you on the next episode.