008 - Rhythm Guitar Across Genres ft. Alon Mei-Tal

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Today Alon and I discuss the difference of Rhythm Guitar between different genres and how you can apply it to heavy metal!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Hey everyone, welcome to Tone Chugs and Harmony, the weekly podcast where we discussed all things rhythm guitar, and through our guests, we try to learn unique experiences and insight uh and get their thoughts on what rhythm guitar means to them. Today I am joined by my good friend Alan Metall. Still said it wrong, didn't I?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Mayal. May talk May.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Oh, it's the May. That's the part I fucked up. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's gonna join us today. I'm very excited. We've been jamming together for a while. Uh, and I'm very excited to pick his brain with everybody, but I'm gonna let him introduce himself a little bit more. Uh what he what he does, who see who he plays with, and uh, you know, why he's here.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Um, let's see. Well, I'm I'm a wan. Hey everybody, been playing almost 30 years since I was nine years old. That's how old I am almost. Um started playing professionally when I was 16, doing like music theater, orchestra pits, that kind of thing. Went to uh music school on the East Coast, moved out here to the West Coast about 14-ish years ago. Um, ever since been teaching guitar lessons, been doing cover gigs with 80s covers, 90s covers, pop and funk and whatever wedding band type stuff. Uh, currently I'm playing with Jason a number of things. You may know uh Project Helion Prime. I played with him in that and some other undisclosed projects as well. Um play currently play rhythm guitar for Neely Brosh. I play guitar in a band called Lavinia. Hopefully, got my new projects like a manchum coming out this year. Um, anything else? Hired gun stuff. I toured with some folks across the US and Europe, guitar, bass, all of the above. And uh I'm here to talk shit mostly about rhythm guitar playing.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Literally talk shit on it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Um talk shit on stupid rhythm guitar players. No, that's not what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Yep. Well, I'm glad you're here, man. Um, a lot of exciting things to discuss today, but before we get into today's topic, uh, we're gonna get just some some more knowledge with you. Um, you know, what was a moment uh, you know, you said you've been playing for almost what did you say, 30 years now, since you were 16? 28 years right now. Crazy. Um do you have a pivotal moment uh during all that time where you kind of really locked in and understood the importance of like solid rhythm guitar playing?

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Um I can recall the moment exactly. So like I was always into guitar playing, like even before this moment, right? Like I think guitar players like John Fusante, who I think is one of the best rock rhythm guitar players on the planet, um, was always really into his playing. But the moment I first heard Strange, Beautiful Music, the album by Joe Cetriani, I think I was like 16. And the first track, this is back in the day when you had like you go to the CD store when they had stores that sold CDs, and you could like scan the barcode, and there's like you get like 10 seconds of each song, you know. Um, so I listened to the very first track on there, Oriental Melody. It just has like a really simple kind of riff, and I was like, this is just the coolest thing I've ever heard in my life. Like, I've never heard anything like this before, and it was entirely guitar-driven, right? There's no vocals, so just like that intro riff to that song, go check it out, Oriental Melody, Joe Satriani. Um, like the second I heard it, like I did not know a guitar could do this. I need to do this now. And it's like totally changed my trajectory on guitar playing, how serious I took it, the value I thought it had, all the above.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Nice. Now, a lot of people, when they think Joe Satriani, right? We usually a guitar versus Yoso, like Steve Vai or something. Um, what really locked in for you on his on his rhythms with that stuff and made you kind of look at it beyond just the the shreddy stuff that we kind of think about with those guys?

SPEAKER_00 3:57

For sure. I mean, I think in the case of Satriani, like yeah, he shreds. I think a lot of the great stuff that he does has to do with his melodies, which is not really a rhythm thing either, but his melodies are also clutch. But when it comes to his rhythm playing, he is no slouch, dude. Like he's not huge into like riffs per se, um, but he's got very solid like rhythm technique, like he's dialed in, he's really in time, he's got great tone, he's got great finger tone, like even like all his like muting and stuff is like nice and thick and crunchy. Um, so in that song in particular, it's very simple, but it is just a lick. He's not playing a melody, it's just like drums and bass and that lick. And it's just played so clean, and the note choice is like perfect, and the way he delivers it, it's like for all his virtuosity, he's just playing a very simple thing, and he plays it like awesome. You wouldn't think about it necessarily, about like how well he plays that really simple thing, but he plays it amazingly well, and I feel like a lot of like nuance to it that you kind of have to have a trained ear to pick up on, but it's incredible, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:03

And it it's things like that that are great, though, like you said, like to kind of have that trained ear to really catch it. Because if you can make it to where a casual listener is just enjoying it, they're like, Yeah, this is good, and they're not realizing all the little nuances going into it, then you've kind of done your job well, you know. Um, and then because it's like when those little nuances are gone, that's when people kind of notice, you know. Um, what is the saying? Like, when you do something right, no one knows you've done anything at all, kind of thing, and that's sort of the mental I don't know if that's the exact saying, but kind of the idea is like if you're doing it right, then the casual listener's not gonna notice, they're just gonna hear a good song, you know. Uh but then guys like us are like, oh whoa, oh my god, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Um yeah, the woman picked that 16th note on the the and of three was just immaculate.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Yeah, he hit it with just uh a little bit more power than normal, and it makes all the difference. And like someone, sh sure, you know. Um yeah, and so I I remember like demonstrating something and you know, showing the difference of like down picks and alternate picking to like a student, and I was like, And you hear that difference? And they're just like, No. I was like, Oh you will someday, yeah. Yeah, someday you'll notice. Uh yeah. So so this next question for you, uh, it might be the same answer, but um I'm curious. So, was there a specific player that also sort of changed how you approached and felt about uh rhythm guitar? So I think I first asked what you know made you really kind of lock in with rhythm, and you brought up Joe Satriani, so it might be the same answer.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Um I don't know, rhythm guitar playing specifically. I think I did mention John Tresciante, I think that's like pound for pound my rhythm guy. Um and because it's like his playing is really like it's just the perfect thing all the time. Because he's in a band where you've got Flea playing insane nonsense like constantly. Not to call it nonsense, it's incredible, but like that dude is all over the place. Anthony Keatis oftentimes has very wordy melodies and stuff, there's a lot going on. Chad Smith, very busy drum player. So like he's gotta kind of insert himself into all this like chaos of stuff happening, and he finds like just the right thing to play to like deliver the chord progression in an interesting way. He's not just like strumming chords the whole time. I mean, he does, but not the whole time. I think like a song like Californication, where it's like a really simple intro, but it's like it's outlining an A minor going to an F, and like everyone can tell what the chord progression is, and it's not getting in the way of the 15 million notes that Flea is playing. Like he's just got such a great feel for it, and his tone is great and his playing is great, but his like sensibility of rhythm playing is like the best, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Nice. Um, that's a funny thing, too, is like now I need to because you know, when you think Californication, that's the part that's sucking your head. Uh, you're mentioning Flea playing a bunch of you know craziness uh I've never noticed in that song. And again, it goes back to the if you're doing it right, no, no one notices you're doing it. Um you're not sitting there like, wow, that bass is a little out of control. So it's like almost you know, I'm kind of giving credit to the basses here now, but uh hey, that's rhythm section, man. That's laying it down. Um we did, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

What's that song, man? Like as soon as you hear it, you'll be like, oh yeah, it's like ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding. It's like all over the place, right? Right. Doctor Shante eighth notes.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Yep. Yeah, and then it works so well because you know, again, casual listen. I always think about like if if you pull it off, you know, to the casual listener driving home from work in traffic, like all they want to do is just get lost in a song. They don't care how fucking technical you're playing. Um, and so to to do that with California Cation and like no one's in there, like, wow, this would be nice if it wasn't such a mess, you know, such a mess. Um, again, to get off topic here, it makes me think of this video I always reference where this guy did like it was like inner sandman, but drums by uh um fucking um Mike Portnoy, right? Um so it's like in the style of Mike Portnoy, and I'm listening to it, I'm like, yeah, this is like technically impressive, right? And yeah, what he's doing is far more intense than what Lars did, but it's like, but man, it's not hitting the same. Um, and I was like, if if Inner Sandman had these drums, it would not be the hit it is today, you know. Again, completely different because I'm going the opposite spectrum of like doing less, but right, you know, I don't know what totally don't know what my point was with that, everybody, but that's the thought that came to my mind. So, anyways, we'll we'll bring it back over here. Um yeah, I wanna I wanna I'm gonna resolvist in that song when we're done here. But this kind of works out great too, so far, because we've we've mentioned uh these two players, uh like you know, um one's rock. They're both rock, but not necessarily like in metal, but um it leans like you said, like it's not really super rhythm when we think rhythm, right? The down picks, the gallops, all that. But today's topic I want to get into specifically with Alan because he does play in so many different things. Um, and you play, you know, hired gun, you play a lot of gigs, you play in like an 80s cover band. Uh I think you do like a 90s cover band sometimes, too, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Sometimes, yeah. When they need me.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Yeah, so you're you're jumping around all over the place though, picking up all these things. So for today's topic, everyone, I want to kind of dig into a rhythm guitar across other genres, how maybe metal guitar players can learn something from these other genres as well. Because if we kind of get stuck in the idea that all rhythm is down picks or anything like locking in, like locking in, right? Locking in is important, but when we think about it, you know, when we think Hetfield, we're thinking on the grid, the gallops, the downpicks, even alternate picking, but it's like like that. But I think there's more to rhythm, right? A nice groovy lick. There's still rhythm there, right? Uh funk, especially, uh, there's so much rhythm in funk, but it's such a different beast than metal playing. Um I've tried learning some funk and just being like, ah, let me go back to my my riffs, you know. So there is so much into it. Um and I guess so to start the discussion with it, uh, have you found as you play in all these different things, right? The 80s and the 90s and stuff or whatever, uh, any major big differences or approaches you have to do with your playing when sort of playing outside of metal?

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Chords. If I'm if I'm playing not metal, then there's way more chords. Uh metals tend to be like riff-based, right? Right. Not a ton of like string. So if I'm playing, um especially with when I play with Neely, she's like a she shreds for sure. There's definitely metal elements, but it's very like kind of jazz in jazzy, fusion-y, all kinds of stuff going on. She's got some really whacked out, like dominant nine sharp 13 like chords that I have to like kind of train my hands to be able to play and to play them in time and then like 13-8 or whatever weird time signature it is. Um, so like being able to play chords, being be able to play them in time, switch between really bizarre chords in time, and be really locked in with the drummer. That's something I don't think about as much when I'm like playing solos or leads or whatever, because that's like the rhythm player's job, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Is like be listening for the kick whenever I have like monitors. I always want the kick drum louder in my monitor so I can really lock it in with the drummer. Um, so I think that especially matters in I think it probably metal just as much, but it's something I don't think people think about enough when they're in a band situation. It's like, yeah, be in time, but be in time specifically with the drummer who is your timekeeper. And I think about that way more when I'm playing a kneely situation or an 80s band situation because like I'm not the focus, I just need to be holding it down, you know. Right. So chords and locking in with a drummer by far the biggest differences than my usual time to shred 16th note triplets at 180 kind of mindset.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Yeah, and when I have taught or had to learn things outside of metal myself, too, I agree the big difference is chords, and like again, you get so comfortable, I get so um in my comfort zone of like the riff bass, the right hand action stuff that as soon as my left hand has to do even a little bit of work, it goes into panic mode, you know? Like little, like lead little simple leads and stuff is one thing, but like again, the funky chords, like you I'll I'll see someone play it and I'm like, oh, it doesn't seem too bad, but it's it's it's the classic case of they're making it look easy. Um when in fact uh it's a lot more difficult, and switching in those chords and staying clean um is not so simple, but a good way you can utilize that in metal is again think of more progressive bands that do these funky chords as well. You know, between the bear to me, they got some really funky chords in their stuff. Um I'm sure Dream Theater does. Um, I haven't learned much Dream Theater, but I can only imagine. Um but a lot of these proc bands, right? Opeth even. Um so they have to be able to do kind of the same thing. And there's a different kind of approach you need for the the cleanness of that plane, because you're not relying so much on the palm mute to kind of deaden everything, you know what I mean? Um a lot of it is actively unpal muted, and so the approach of how your finger I I I I could be wrong here, and you could you could tell me if you agree or not, but it's almost you know, again, we're maybe with metal we're using our our pick hand to help deaden the strings. This is more so using the fret hand as you're making these chords. You're not just worried about the strings you're hitting, you're worried about the strings you're not hitting and how to deaden those, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Yeah, I think I mean you still can use the fretting hand for sure. Like if it's it only really works if you need total silence, though. Even if it's just for a second, the right hand makes everything silent, as opposed to just muting specific strings, which is like a left-hand thing for sure. So, I mean, I do this in metal too, but especially I'm doing like my more cordy stuff, like just subtly touching adjacent strings without fretting them. So if I'm like barring something, I'm only barring up to the A string, I'll still be using the top of my finger to touch the E string so it's not ringing when I strum it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

So definitely a lot more left-hand action for those kinds of things. And uh the dexterity is just very different, like it's not the same as playing a scale, you're like taking an entire shape and switching to an entirely different shape and like doing that within like one eighth note or something, you like quickly get into the next thing. Right. So, not not that it's more difficult, but just a different kind of difficult.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Yep, yeah. And if you're not practicing it, that's where it might seem like it's harder, but it's just it's all comes back to the muscle memory, right? Um, and just because I I know there's been things I've I've tried to learn. Uh, shout out to Lunar, our buddy Alex Boston's band. Um, you know, I just recently did some guitars for their new album. And uh yeah, but you know, I remember you know, he wrote some stuff and then the guitarist kind of went in and and like made it feel more guitar-y, you know, because he's like, I'm a drummer, I write it on on guitar pro and I don't, you know, and I'm like learning it. I'm like, dude, what the fuck are these cores? And he's like, Oh yeah, I should have told you that you know Jordan's got like a a bachelor's degree in jazz fusion and shit. I'm like, sick, cool, great. Why didn't he recording this shit? Yeah, because I had to be the rhythm player, and yeah, it's funny, I was like, man, uh what did I sign up with? But it was it was good for me, man. It was a good, it was uh it got me out of my comfort zone for sure. Like every song, even the ones I get comfortable with, there'd be one section where there was some chord that was the bane of my existence. And by the time I was done, uh I uh I was feeling a lot better. But at first, it was a it was a completely different approach to the stuff I'm used to playing and the stuff I'm writing. Like it can humble you when you like I said, when you get too comfortable, you know. Um yeah, so if we jumped to some other genres, I want to kind of discuss sort of again the the rhythm approach with them and how it might be different from metal. I mean, what are some major things we think about with metal, right? And then we can also talk about like comparisons with metal. We have what precision, there's the aggression behind it. Definitely endurance is important with metal. And then we we mention it a lot being tight, right? Um and endurance is a big one. There's an anthrax song, which I once again I can't remember the name. I just played it last night on my stream. Um my buddy Carlos, Carlos Alvarez uh told me about it, and he's like, you know, learn this song for like endurance practice. And it's like a seven-minute song, and it's not fast, dude. It's a pretty mid-tempo song. So like at first it seems easy. I'm like, what's he talking about? But dude, seven minutes of just down picking just doesn't stop. And you eventually you reach a point where you're like, fuck, please be over, please be over. Like, even though it's not a fast song, um it's just your your arm, you know, that endurance is uh it takes a toll. And I've learned that the endurance is a big part of a lot of it, because a lot of these these stu uh riffs and stuff that don't require weird chord shapes or fast shredding things like that. Um they they're not the the playing them isn't the difficult part. The difficult part comes in the endurance of it. You know, uh like a quick burst, it's easy, but it's like when you have to do these really tight, intricate riffs for five, seven minutes, if your endurance isn't there, that also makes it that's the hard part. And so, you know, getting that under control. But why do you think um, you know, what is so physically demanding about metal playing?

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Um certainly that's a big element, like being able to not just meet the speed, but to maintain the speed for however long you need to. Um another song that's like in that wheelhouse of the anthrax song, it's an it's a megadeth song, and again I forget the name of it, but it's off their not their newest album, but I think the one before that, Ice T is on it, and it's like non-stop. It's it's alternating, it's not downpick, but it's like insanely fast for like five minutes straight, and like it just never stops. And I I can't even maintain that speed for like 30 seconds, right? It's like brutal as hell. Um I forget the name of the song, it's bothering me. But yeah, certainly endurance is a big one, speed is a big one. Um, I'm trying to think of some other like kind of crucial factors of like the metal guitar specifically. Um, if you're like doing muting, like you talked about palm muting and stuff, right? Um, if you're like you got some muted notes, some not, like that can really affect a phrase, getting the phrasing just right, getting like open string stuff to happen, hammer-ons and pull-off stuff to happen. It's very different, and there's much more technique, many more techniques involved than a song that involves mostly strumming chords, even if they're like weird rhythms or weird chords. It's pretty much just one skill of like my hand is doing this, now my hand is doing this, versus this riff is gonna require muting on this string and then doing a hammer on here, and then skipping up to this string and then sliding back down to this string. There's like way more technic technical stuff happening that you gotta be on top of all those techniques to get that to sound right. Yep. Versus keep this hand going while I do this, you know, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

Uh, which kind of answers the next question or my thought for this, but it's like, you know, with metal, why is tightness so important? Right. Because not every genre, as we'll go through and talk about, it's really that crucial. Like, you shouldn't be sloppy if you can help it, but some of the stuff wants you to be a little looser. But with metal, like tightness is so important, you know. Why do you think so? I mean, I know you know, but discuss, discuss with that.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Oh, I have I have an idea. Um, I think it kind of has to do with like what is valued in metal. So like if you're you're talking about like funk earlier, like not that there aren't really tight funk bands, of course there are, but it has more to do, like you want a more organic feeling with a band like that, a funk band, a jam band, disco thing, even jazz. Like you want it to kind of be more human feeling, with like kind of maybe this speeds up a little bit, maybe this slows down a little bit, maybe as we approach the bridge, we want to all pull it back a bit, you know, like there's like more fluidity, perhaps, in those kinds of things. Whereas we're talking about metal, especially some genres like thrash and like those types of like really intense, fast paced metal, like old school power metal be the same thing. Whereas like you want it to be like almost machine like in its accuracy, because that's just like the five that we're after. If you want, like if you're gonna have whenever double double kicks at 16. Notes at 160 BPM, you want them to be locked in. Like you don't want like even like the tiniest little flub. Because when you're moving at those speeds and like that many notes, you get off by one of them. Then like the listener can tell. It's like, oh, it's like that one that like wasn't quite right. So like that kind of like machine-like accuracy, I think, is just more highly valued in those kinds of music versus a more human feeling. Like it's okay to kind of get a little loosey-goosey with it when you're playing some other types of music.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Yep. And it's definitely been discussed on here before too, but then you bring in everything else with that. So you you know, if the drummer, you know, say we're say we're all doing the 16th notes together, so we got a we got a power metal chorus where a 16th note's palm muted, everyone's flying together. Well, what happens if, you know, and this kind of goes back to the endurance. What happens if the guitarist gets armed, gets a little tired, starts to slow down, and maybe the the the bass player is jumping the gun, the adrenaline's running, and they're ahead, right? So even if that drummer's still locked in, but now you've got a guitar player who's falling behind and a bass player who's ahead, that's gonna sound like mud. You know. Um definitely. And so, but again, like there there are e there is even metal where it's acceptable, and so it's like you said, like it is the vibe, right? You do you especially hear it in thrash, power metal, anything that wants that tightness. But you know, I mean, there's sludge and doom metal, and I'm pretty sure it's more forgivable in that sort of genre to be a little looser. Um because even when you say that and you listen to some of these bands, it's not like they're just playing loose and sloppy and it sounds like shit, but again, it's more organic, it's more human, it's not so mechanical, you know. Yeah, um yeah, and so and I think there is a difference when we use mechanical too of like the plane compared to like overly produced, because believe it or not, I have heard albums that are so overly produced that the tightness it sounds it's almost too mechanical, you know. So you could be tight and it still sounds a little human, right? Um and I think that's perfectly acceptable. So you know, and then yeah, I think so you know, with metal that that is crucial, and then to kind of go to like the little brother, if you will, of metal, and speaking of thrash, but then you think about like punk rock, right? Um punk rock is definitely one that could that is could be a little looser, in fact, it it is right. They almost sacrifice perfection for energy, you know? Yeah, so yeah, so it's not it's not always perfect, uh but the energy there, the attitude is there, right? Um, and it's usually a lot more simple. Um and you know, I think of like Ramones and you know most I almost said morones, most Ramones songs pretty basic, nothing to them, but they're fun, they're boppy almost, you know. Blitzkrieg Bop, it's in the name. And um, but even some of that, there's still a bit of endurance. Um, you know, it's not the same as stuff we're talking about, like these thrashy fast 160 riffs and all that, but they're still doing a lot of cores, really, you know, 16th notes, just repetitive and repetitive. Um but again, the approach is different. I mean, there's still rhythm there. And so, you know, yeah, why do you think so, in contrast of it, like why do you think the simple punk riffs also work so well?

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Um, I mean, you I think you kind of nailed it with the energy thing. Like, punk rock, I don't think, is necessarily about the like tonal quality or like the songwriting genius or like the whatever um poetic lyricism or anything like that. I'd say there aren't some of those things in punk music, but it's like it's about the energy, it's about the defiance of authority, right? That kind of stuff. So, like whether the song is quote unquote good doesn't really make as big a difference as like, is it aggressive, is it emotional? And like that's kind of the vibe. I think the biggest appeal of punk is like its live performance, where like you know, people are just losing their shit and people jumping off the stage. Haven't been to that many punk shows, but the ones I have been to are very, very high energy, and like that's kind of the whole point, like just to be there with other people who dig the vibe, and you're just all losing your minds together. Um, I think if I were to enjoy punk, it would be at a show. I don't know, I'd sit around and listen to their moans a ton on my spare time. Right. Also on the metal guy. Why would I? But um yeah, so I don't think precision really matters as much as attitude when it comes to to punk music, and I think musicality and musicianship is more highly valued in certain genres of metal, not necessarily all of them, but metal as a whole, I think, is more prone to like more technically impressive playing and tightness and all that.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Right. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Um, and I agree there's something to be said about the live environment. I don't think I've ever been to a punk show now that I think about it. Maybe when I was younger, but you know, I've seen like movies like SLC Punk or the the Sex Pistols movie, um, things like that, and the way it's protect uh um fuck, what's the word? Depicted. Thank you. Jesus. Yeah, the way it's depicted in those, right? It's just like you said, it's chaotic. Uh the band's, you know, the band's fucked up, they're they're fucking up, but no one cares, dude. You know? Um like I think the Sex Pistols film, it it's the it's the fuck, what's the bass player's name? Uh who like oh yeah, it was um Sid Vicious? Yeah, yeah. So it was like the Sid and Nancy film, right? And there's like some parts where his bass is like completely unplugged and like no one gives a sh. Whatever, dude. Yeah, attitude for sure. Um absolutely, and then so uh we'll talk about a couple other genres and then we'll bring it back to like what can metal learn from these, right? So we mentioned we mentioned funk, which I think is to me a really good example of almost uh very opposite of metal, but they're still really in like so they really have intense right hand picking, but it's it's very different, it's very different. A lot of ghost notes, um, a lot of up picked kind of stuff, you know. And what really impresses me with some funk is they uh, you know, I don't know, the chords don't get too crazy, um, but it's a lot of the um more, you know, we're metal with rhythms, we tend to stick on stick to the lower strings, E A D. They're kind of opposite, they're on the E B and G, uh, going at these fast speeds. Uh you can you can kind of rope ska into this as well with this sort of sort of style they do. But what I think makes these really challenging is um you know, they're they're picking, they're doing like a 16th note progression, just down up, down up, down up, consistently. That doesn't seem too hard. Doesn't seem too hard, right? Okay, just down up, down up. But then you listen to what they're playing, and it's very specific. It's almost pretty it's pretty percussive, you know. Yeah, and it's very specific. So uh just so yeah, the the picking hand is just a constant down up, down up, down up. But then you have to that goes back to muting with the right hand as well at the right time, muting with the left hand, maybe. And it just do you have you ever done much funk performance in any of the cover bands or just for yourself?

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Yeah, not a ton of funk. I did some disco, which is like a related guitar style, I'd say, uh in terms of like always going the chica chica chica chica chica all the time.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Um, but yeah, similar similar vibe. Um, I'd say everything you said is is pretty accurate. There are some kind of like I'm thinking of like certain like Parliament Funkadelic songs where the guitar is playing, I don't know if I call it a riff necessarily, but it's like a kind of like a line that's not all of constant 16th notes. But uh, when you're not kind of doing the constant thing, then you're very much locked in in terms of like your uh like the feel. You have to be like really deep in the pocket. Right. You have to just be really just like nailing the vibe, like the groove. I guess the groove's a better word. Just nailing the groove of like a bam, bah, bim, damp, b-n, d, dan, d. There's like lots of space, right? So when there's lots of space like that, you gotta like just nail it, like right, right at the perfect place to play that note, is when you gotta play that note. And that's when like being locked in with a drummer really helps a ton, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Because the drummers groove. That's a great thing to bring up that I almost forgot to bring it up because you're right, that is sort of the other side of it. Um and with with funk, the guitars have a very bright, clean tone to their guitars. Where's where sometimes we can hide behind our distortion with metal? You can't you are not hiding. What's that?

SPEAKER_00 31:19

I do it all the time.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, you are not hiding behind your tone with funk because it's bright, it cuts through, and it's clean. So you hit the wrong spot or you hit a wrong note, everyone's gonna know. Everyone is gonna know. Uh and it's almost just well, I would say it is just as crucial. So going back to what we're talking about with metal, with you know, the more mechanical 16th notes, really fast, everyone locked in. This is this same sort of idea, but there's the extra element of it's not consistent. Like you said, there's a lot of space, there's a lot of silence, and so um, you just gotta know when to come in. And a lot of the times they come in on an and, right, or in the middle of it. Um, and you know, um, I I'm not too experienced with with funk, but one band I really like is uh Vol Vol Volf Volpec. Um Volpeck. Yeah, and um I only listen to their live at Madison Square Garden album just because it's so good. But there's a lot of times where the guitarist and bass player are locking in together, and it's it's so good, but it's it's like they gotta lock it in or else uh or else say goodbye, you know. Um it's another one of those things where they just make they make it look so easy, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Yeah, they're sick, they're they're all great players in that band.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Yeah. I I tried learning some from Volpec because it didn't seem too hard, man. But yeah, it's the it's it's it's those it's it's it's the space to to quote Kirk Hammett, it's the space between the notes that uh that makes it difficult.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Um definitely yeah, super syncopated, super, super wonky at times. So it's like nail differences.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

So here's a question for you. So when it comes to funk, uh, why do you think restraint is important?

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Um similar to the John Freshante thing, like depending on the line with your band, in a funk band, you might have like fucking 12-15 people in that band. Especially if you've got like a horn section and whatever, how many percussionists you might have. Like there's a ton of stuff going on in some old school funk bands. So again, if you're like playing all over all of that all the time, it's just gonna clutter up the whole sonic spectrum with your chicka chicka-chicka-chickas. Um, and again, like in in most music, and like in funk is certainly no exception, if you're playing rhythm, like you're not the star of the show. Like you don't want to be overplaying too much. Um, even if you're doing a consistent 16th note in the right hand, like you're not playing super loud, you're only playing like three notes at a time, you're not playing like six-string strums usually. Um, so you're kind of keeping it to your own like little piece of the sonic spectrum, so you're not stepping on anybody else. Um, I guess like that's probably my experience not playing metal. Like, metal's the only time when anyone's been like, hey, can you turn up? Because like that's every other time. It's like guitar player needs to shut the hell up. Like, we're I'm trying to hear this part or that part. This person's trying to sing, you need to play something less. That's always been the note that me and every other guitar player outside of metal has always gotten is like chill out.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

I think, yeah, I I think as metal guitarists, we can we get used to the idea that we are the most important instrument, right? That right because again, metal's riff riff based, everyone recognizes the riff, and you know, um even when we're playing rhythms, right, it's riffy, uh, and the riffs are catchy, and so people want to hear that. Um but then we like we we jump to another genre, and we have to remember that we're just the support act, you know, like you said, um, and funk's a big th big part of that too. Um funny enough, jazz guitar though, it's pretty flashy, right? Yeah, um all of it's fucking flashy though. But I remember even like dude, even like the tenacious D song jazz, like that jazz player is going crazy. Um but but with jazz everyone's going crazy, so it's sort of a col a collective just pot of craziness. But um because another another thing I that's become, I think, a little so to now switch to the final genre we'll talk about and then we'll bring it all home. But we're even gonna bring up country, right? And how country kind of has its own thing. But a big thing I feel like metal has started to popularize doing that. I see a lot of more younger people, uh like social media guitarist, especially, uh, and like more modern sort of metal core bands and stuff, but hybrid picking, right? So using their finger, their fingers actually pick these things. So they're doing these riffs and then they're picking, but like, dude, that makes me you know, you see that a lot, bluegrass or uh country. Now you you hear country, you might think of like you know, radio rock country, but dude, there's some jammer, jamming guitar players in country um that go really fucking hard with the with this with with like you know, almost like the Tennessee kind of country is what I think of. Totally, yeah. Um, they got a lot of bounce timing, uh chord movements, as we've talked about. Um, and again, like I'm not talking your three-chord pop country song, you know. Some of these guys are really doing some intricate stuff. Um and you know, sometimes they're uh one thing I think they do a lot too is they build the melody within the rhythm of the chord progression, right? So I've heard that quite a bit where normally, you know, we'll play something and then you got the lead guitar playing kind of the riff. A lot of that the kind of finger picking stuff, and this could really kind of work with any finger picking style, but it's something I really like where the melody's built sort of within the chord progression, you know, and that's really cool. Yeah. Have you done much country uh in your in your journeys?

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Um, not a ton of country. There's like you know, we play Friends in Low Places in my 80s band, that's about like the extent of my country uh experience. Um a few years ago, uh I had the great good fortune to be asked to play at Joe Satriani's like G4 Rockstar Fantasy Camp with Neely Brosh. It wasn't for me, I was just accompanying Neely Brosh as she was being playing there. And uh sometimes it got paid to go to Rockstar Fantasy Camp, it was great. And uh John Fye was there, and he's you know a big bluegrass guy on top of being a rip and shred dude, and he was doing all that, like chicken picking. Um I guess now the cool kids are calling it selective picking, but he wasn't calling it that. It's just picking combined with hammer ons and pull-offs, um, and like the hybrid picking and all that stuff. And he was like the only guy I saw that weekend where I was like, no way would I have ever arrived at any of this on my own. Like, there is like no part of me that is used to this kind of playing that is like, oh, I'll just do whatever. He would just do like some really simple three-note pattern. I'm like, I would never in a million years think to do that. Like, that is like so far outside my wheelhouse. Right. So like the fact that he's like drawing from that country bluegrass thing and putting it into shred, it's like mind-blowing. So speaking of like stuff that metal musicians can learn, like there's some really, really cool stuff that is out there in the country world. Um, I think another big thing with country guitar playing is like a lot of intervals. Like, we'll tend to play like single note lines and they'll kind of like do like these like sixths, like going down the ba deep ba doopadao, like kind of down the fretboard and doing all kinds of thirds and sixths and fourths and fifths, like a lot of interval playing, which uh we usually just shred up and down our scales, right? We're not playing more than one note at a time, usually, and if we do, it's just the next note up the scale, right? But like jump jumping all over the place like that is like also a really cool way to approach licks and uh like scale play that's outside the normal wheelhouse of us metal folks, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:54

And that that is what's so cool of all these genres, we're all borrowing the same 12 notes most of the time. Uh, you know, I mean, unless we get into like Indian music and stuff, but we're not, we're not today. Um, but as far as contemporary like Western music, we're all borrowing the same 12 notes, and the fact that we can get all these different genres, all these different sounds and feelings from them is awesome, right? And rhythm is is there for all of it, and you know, the way you put it together, because you know, and it all works together, right? Like I would argue you can't have a melody without a rhythm, right? I mean, rhythm is essentially just the way we're counting out to play said melody, you know. Uh these notes go together this way, uh, you hold this one for that long, you got your rhythm, you know. But the it's you can have you can have the rhythm, and the rhythm could be the same note value, but we could either just do all open string, or now you add a melody to it, and that's where you get that's where you get the oh that that sounds pretty, right? So either and it's kind of cool, like uh shout out to uh Trey Xavier, who I had on the podcast, but we didn't actually talk about this, but he has a songwriting course. Everyone go check it out. Um but one of the first things he talked about was doing just that where what he would do is like on his pad, is he would just hit some random rhythm, like just make up some random rhythm, and then he would take that and get his guitar and start doing add some some chuggy to it. So say he did like da da da da da da da, right? Uh so there he got that. He's like you could write a little breakdown with it, but then he's like, But now what happens if we add some some notes? And now da da da da right now you've got your melody to the rhythm, so it all kind of works hand in hand. Um and you know, again, there's there's rhythm in the lead plane too, right? I mean, it's all it all kind of stems from the same thing, and we've talked about that on past episodes and things, so yeah, I'm all about that.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

I mean, so if I want to get like really deep on some music shit right now, is in in my humble opinion, I think all of music, whether it's like riffs or solos or chord progressions or whatever, is always just an interplay of tension versus the release of tension. Always. Like I think it's like all it is. So melodically, that's kind of measured in terms of like what note of the scale or what note of the chord, like whatever, like the the root has no tension, but the second might have a lot of tension, which is why you resolve it to the root, whatever. I think rhythmically, there's also this aspect of tension versus not tension, because if you're playing everything right on the beat, there's no deviation, it's like very secure right here. So if you just have like a melody that's just corridored notes all the time, that's very predictable. There's no tension there. But if you get like a really syncopated melody that's like coming sometimes on the beat, sometimes it's off the beat, sometimes it's on the 16th note, sometimes it's somewhere over here over there, you're creating all that tension, and then when you get to like your chorus or whatever, you have a much more simple thing in half notes and whole notes, and now it's like you've released all that tension.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

So I think rhythm is just as crucial to the whole interplay of tension versus release of tension as a melody could be, a melodic idea, I should say.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Yeah, I agree. Um and to piggyback off that and going back to what to the original play, yeah, is like the melody can help decide which way that tension goes, but the rhythm decides how it feels. Maybe that's a okay way of saying what I'm trying to say here. But because it cause even if you have that the tension of not just being on the downbeat, if it's all just the same note, that's gonna get boring, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

So like you build the rhythm, but then you need that melody to kind of determine how it's feeling, and then that's kind of the cool part too. And again, a little getting off topic, but not off topic, but changing, like you know, when you're writing it and the progressions themselves, right? Where do you want this chorus to go? Because you know, if you you can go in many different ways, right? If you're doing this build-up and this build-up, and then you you burst into this very open, very happy feeling, everyone feels okay, I feel secure, right? I feel good. But then sometimes people will go to a more dreadful kind of sound, so it's like all this build-up, and then uh oh, shit's going down, you know. So yeah, music's just it's just great how we can create these emotions through a sound, you know. And um when you really sit down and think about what music's doing and why songs affect us the way they do, and it's just sounds, man, but it's crazy, you know. Um something something silly, but something that's always stuck with me is like when you you take a scene from a horror film and then you put like a funny song in the scene. Suddenly the scene's not scary, you know? Uh it's just how important music is, or even not thinking about music, but something funny I love is like they'll put uh you know they'll put laugh tracks. And inappropriate scenes of like TV shows. And now it feels funny, but it's like when, or if anyone watches It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, there's an episode where they put cameras up in Charlie's mom's house because they think that because like Mac's mom is staying with them, and they think that's yeah, I saw that one. Yeah, they think that they're like something's going on, so they want to watch them, and then Dennis starts to like add laugh tracks in like super violent situations. But it but it makes you think like this happens in sitcoms, and we're just it's we're laughing at it because we're told to laugh. I got way off topic there, everybody. I'm so sorry, but that's just all that kind of made me think of it. And same kind of vibe. What I was getting at is just how the music can make you know make you feel certain ways, and again, the rhythm, melody, all of it plays a big part in that. Um, and I think again, going to the different genres, that's why we feel the certain ways we do in the genres because of how all this works together within it, right? Um almost that mechanical intensity of metal, it's aggressive, so we feel aggressive. We feel, yeah, fuck yeah, you know. Uh punk, though it's simple, energetic. You're like, fuck yeah, I'm ready to take on the government. Let's go, dude. Fucking I'm pumped, bro. Yeah, um, yeah. Yeah, funk's got the groove, man. It's got the it's got the groove, so you want to dance, you know, and it's all how these things are working. And then country, it's got the twang, it's got the it's it's slow, right? It's it's just sad. Um, and there's sad songs in other genres too, but you know what I mean. Like country, I don't know. I don't listen to much country, so I don't have a good one for I don't have a good one for that. Makes me want to go stand in a field. I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Uh in a truck and drink a beer, but not in that order.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

Yeah, please not in that order.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Several hours away from copying a truck.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

Yeah. Um so anyway, so bringing some of all these all these different ideas from genres into metal, right? And it's not like you have to know these genres to do it, but we talk about simplicity, right, with punk. Um not so much metal, but think of a a rock band, you know, ACDC, man. They've been playing the simple same chords their whole career, and right they're one of the biggest bands in the world. But you see simplicity a lot more in modern power metal, right? Um, modern power metal, um, and the debate on if you like it or don't is not what we're here for, but modern power metal has taken a more poppy approach with the songwriting. It's simple. Um, the riffs for the most part, I think it's interesting because like the riffs for the most part are pretty simple. Guitar has once again kind of become a back player um in a lot of the stuff, and you know, it big catchy choruses are important, um, but then like the guitar player will still fucking shred a solo, just to remind you that it's like I I can if I want to. Um yeah, and so you know, I I really like Beast in Black a lot when it comes to like a lot of modern power mode bands, because I actually do think they still get super riffy. I mean, they got some shit that makes me like there's there's one song, uh I can't think of the name right now, but it's super gives me like Judas Priest vibes with their riff and stuff. Um and so, but the point is, is like so that's kind of gotten a little more simple, a little more uh chord progressions, catchy choruses, things like that, you know. Um and then you know, feeling versus like uh precision. Again, we talk about I think it's the vibe you're going for. A lot of more sludge or doom. Um and you know, someone who listens to Doom could correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just basing off the little bit I've heard. You know, I listened to like the sword, I like those guys a lot. They feel more groovy than worried about precision to me. Not that they're playing sloppy, but again, the vibe isn't like wow, listen how tight these guys are. It's more listen how fucking groovy this is, you know. Um but what I also think is important with that too is I I mentioned it earlier, but sometimes people get too precise, right? With a lot of quantizing or studio editing, and um it to me it almost hurts it. It's like wow, this is really polished, a little too polished. Um I still want it to sound human at the end of the day. You know, you can sound mechanical and tight and still sound human. I think is what I yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Totally. So yeah, I mean, I think not to like cast aspersions on any particular band, but I think you like listen to a band like Dragon Force, for example, and no one's saying, like, man, check out that feel. Right. Like it's just like not that's not something you're looking for when you listen to to Dragon Force. No one's listening to whatever Herbie Hancock, and like, man, that like that metronome precision tightness. Like, he's got tight bands, but like that's not why anyone's listening to to funk, you know. Right. It's just kind of different, different strokes for different folks, different things are kind of valued across different genres.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

Exactly. And um, and and and and the thing is though, is like that's perfectly okay. Like Dragon Force kind of made that stance of this is what we do, this is what we are, and it's it's it's it's a conscious decision, you know. And when Through the Fire and the Flames came out, everyone's just like, What in the fuck? And they're like, Oh yeah, let's let's do this more. Um, and again, that's not a dig, they're Dragon Force, like they're they're doing just fine, man. Um, but they know what works for them and what they want to play, and um, you know, and they speaking of them, because they've said this themselves. I remember a very, very early interview, you know, where they take inspiration from like video game music, and video game music fucking goes hard, dude. Listen to a Sonic the Hedgehog soundtrack, and there's some intense shit going on there, and yeah, you you switch that. I mean, it's been done time and time again. There's Power Glove, there's uh Super Monster Party, which Super Monster Party writes original music to video games, so but they still have the video game vibe. But yeah, there's so many like video game metal covers online because it works so well, and that's other that's another cool thing just about how all of this kind of works together is just changing the instruments or the the the platform in which you're playing them suddenly changes the vibe. Like, how many times have you maybe I don't know if you've done this, but so many times I've written I I write a song, I usually work in guitar pro just it's easy for me, uh especially when I'm writing by myself. And you show someone what you've been working on on guitar pro, like just a buddy who maybe isn't like a musician themselves, and what's the first thing they say is like sounds like boss music, you know. Uh you got that midi sound. So, what would you say is a best way without someone overwhelming themselves to be able to dabble or practice all these different styles or maybe even genres if they wanted to get into it? But you know, what's a good starting off point? Like what have you done? And I think I actually had a second question, so I'm gonna try to rope them together. Because what I wanted to ask you when we were talking about the stuff you've performed is did you find any challenges when jumping to something like funk or things like that when having to play them? And maybe you can answer this question by answering what did you do in those situations to have it kind of make sense for you?

SPEAKER_00 51:24

Yeah, good question. Um so yeah, there's like I think various styles, like if you've been playing guitar for a while, like generally speaking, technique-wise, there's nothing really new under the sun. Like, whether you like to play metal or funk or pop or whatever, like you play the guitar in pretty much the same way for all of them. You play chords, you pick, hammer on, pull off, whatever. Those are all kind of the same. It's like we were talking about just a second ago about like what is being valued right now in this style. That's like that's kind of the hard part to pick up if you're not super fluent in the style. So, like, uh if you know, for example, in a wedding band we were playing some like Michael Jackson thing, I think it was um don't stop till you get enough, and the car's just going d d dent dun d dun d and like that's not a hard thing to play in of itself. But at the time, you know, I was like in college, I was like 20 or something, and I was like thought I was just the hottest shit. I was like, Well, I could do so much more than this, and everyone's always like, Shut the fuck up, dude. Like just play the notes short and clean and in time, and like after a while, it's like, oh yeah, it does sound way better if I just go do like real staccato, real short notes. But like if you're not familiar with the style, you're not gonna be able to pick up on that stuff. So like just doing some listening and some critical listening, and I do this all the time, talking about like roping in different stuff into uh you know, getting acquainted with different styles. Like, listen for just like one or two things that stands out to you about the song, the style, the guitar playing, whatever. So if you're not a funk guy and you're listening to whatever, what's I already said P Funk, what's another funk band? Um I'm blanking P Funk's my favorite. Let's go with P Funk. You're listening to Parliament, uh oh, um, Cool in the Gang. Listen to Cool and the Gang. And like, what about you know, Cool and the Gang is like really standing out to me? Like, I I listen to Shred all the time. I'm not hearing that here. So, what am I hearing? Is it the guitar tone? Is it like the picking? Is it really percussive? Is it like mostly legato? Like, what is it about this that I'm hearing? Is it the timing? Is it like the chord voicing? Like, maybe you don't know a whole bunch about theory, it could be something as simple as like, well, I like how the guitar car guitar goes did it did did it did it. Cool. Like, can it can you work with that? Could you apply that to something you're playing? Could you work that into an improvisation thing? Could you write a riff that sounds like that? Like finding stuff that like appeals to you about whatever it is you're listening to. I think is a really good way to like just start integrating some of that into your own playing, into your own writing without having to like do a deep dive on every genre under the sun. Just like find a couple little things that you like when you listen to it, and then start working that in.

SPEAKER_02 54:03

Yeah, I think it's great. Yeah, and uh yeah, it's a simple way instead of just like I must sit down and learn all these genres, I must master all these genres. Because spoiler, we still haven't mastered everything. It's just it's not gonna happen. My bad, my bad. Yeah. Um, buddy, before we get out of you, yep. All right, buddy, before we get you out of here, we're gonna do the lightning ram. Okay. So this is something I do at the end. I usually ask the same questions. Sometimes I change them up in the moment, but we'll see. But these are just kind of fun questions to ask you at the end. Um, and just sort of give us the first answer that comes to your mind. So, first one I'd like to ask you is the uh what do you think is the most underrated rhythm guitarist?

SPEAKER_00 54:49

Most underrated. I mean, talked about Frischante, but I don't think he's underrated. Um, underrated rhythm guitarist? Man, you're like coming out swinging. Van Halen. Everyone thinks about what a great lead player he is, but dude, like listen, listen to some of his rhythm stuff, man. His timing is super tight, his like technique is flawless. He's a sick rhythm player for sure.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

So I need to put on record here for everyone listening because I need I need to make sure everyone knows I was first, because this is how I am. I have an episode coming out next week after this episode, but I actually recorded it before this episode and I said exactly the same thing. So just want everyone to know. Yep, no, but I I agree though. Uh I I go way more into it on the next episode, everybody, so you can wait till then. But not enough people talk about his rhythm playing.

SPEAKER_00 55:34

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

100% agree. Cool. Um, one album do you think every guitarist should study?

SPEAKER_00 55:45

Wow. Man, you come with the heavy hitters, dude.

SPEAKER_02 55:47

Um just simple lightning round questions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

I mean, I think probably like no matter what style, like classic Hendrix is um, you know, I had, excuse me, I get emotional talking about Jimi Hendrix. Um, I had the like experience Hendrix, like compilate compilation CD when I was a kid. All the classics. But yeah, that guy did everything, dude. So like any any song that he played, like you can hear all of the stuff that's still current and modern today being performed like at the top of like your skill set. Like he's he was the best at all that stuff. So check out any head album.

SPEAKER_02 56:28

It's amazing when you remember when you remember too that he did it all before 27. Crazy. Like, yeah, man. I feel like I didn't ever I feel like I didn't start really accomplishing shit until 27. And so to be reminded of how much he had done and how well he played uh before then is crazy. Um shout out to Jimi Hendrix.

SPEAKER_01 56:53

Yep, RIP.

SPEAKER_02 56:55

Um if you could have any guitar player uh guest on one of your songs, who might it be?

SPEAKER_00 57:05

Damn, dude. Um, I mean I could name some names, but then they would like make me look really bad by comparison, so I don't know that I really want them on my song. You know, fair enough. Make me look awful. Um I had to choose one. I mean, it really had to be Satriani, man. Like he was he was my my first like guitar hero. So if I could have him on something that I had to do, I'd I'd shit my pants for sure.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

That's what we want, baby. Joe, someone get Joe on the line. Yep. Um, what is one exercise you think is crucial that everyone should do?

SPEAKER_00 57:38

We're talking about guitar exercises, right? Not handstand push-ups.

SPEAKER_02 57:41

Oh, yeah. Can you please please demonstrate real quick for us? Yeah, for those watching, um, yeah. Uh no, guitar exercises. So, and let me rephrase it. What is one that you find help because I don't like the idea of talking in absolutes, like you must do this. But what is one exercise you have found helpful and you would recommend people trying?

SPEAKER_00 58:00

Um I like one that Paul Gilbert, I think he created it. I'm gonna credit him with creating it. It's just a four-note pattern. Uh see if I can describe it. So on the B string, you play five, seven, and eight. On the E string, you play five, and you come right back down again, eight, seven, five on the B string. So it's like a pattern. And it's I like it because it is very simple and you can just put it on repeat for forever, but it's deceptively difficult as you get faster and faster and faster, switching from string to string and keeping everything really tight and in time. People, a lot of my students at least, tend to struggle a lot with the transition from really slow to slightly faster to like pretty fast. So just really locking it in. It's a great one for getting comfortable with the metronome because there's only a few nodes to think about. You can really dial it in with the click. You can take all the picking out and make it a legato exercise. Same thing applies, working the technique, working the tempo, working the timing. It's like kind of a catch-all exercise, and it's really simple. Anyone can do it.

SPEAKER_02 58:56

I uh that'd be my I love it. I I um pretty sure in the first episode I mentioned a work an exercise by Paul Gilbert, but I'll do it as a refresher just because you mentioned Paul Gilbert. I was looking up rhythm guitar tech uh exercises one day, and one that he did that I actually still do before I go live. I don't know if you've ever seen me do it before a show, but uh it's actually fucking deceptively hard, but it's on the E B E B and G string. And what he does is it's all palm muted, he picks up, up, down, up, up, down. That's it. And you you think but the thing is is like it's all pick, so you can't do a sweep motion. Like it's not a like, so it has to be pick up, pick, up, pick, or upstroke, upstroke, downstroke. And you know, you do it slow, it seems fine. I know you guys can't hear the guitar, but if you're watching the video, um, but then it's like with how fast he was going, it was like ah fuck. So I do that sometimes warming up for a show. I'm still not nearly as fast as he is with it, but that was one that I found. So Paul Gilbert is a guitarist. I'm not gonna obviously he's not an underrated guitarist, but I just want to shout out how fucking clean he is. Like, my god. So good. So good. Okay. All right, and last one I always like to ask is what advice or thoughts of wisdom or encouragement would you look would you give to aspiring younger guitarists?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

Oh man, where where to start? There's so many things that so many people struggle with. I'm trying to like think of the one that's gonna make it all good for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:27

You have to change one person's life right here, right now. What's what are you gonna say?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

Cool. Um, I guess I would say actually, this is this is like helpful for me that I think about is the only way you won't like achieve like the skill level you want to achieve is if you give up. That's like the only way to failure is to stop trying, right? Like guitar playing can be super frustrating. There's so many things you have to get right just to make a guitar sound like a guitar. Like if you hit something on a piano, it sounds like a piano. If you hit a drum, it sounds like a drum. You gotta do 15 fucking things to get a guitar to sound like a guitar. So a lot of people get really frustrated. There's like, especially if they're trying to shred, like, my god, that's so hard. Like, it takes so many hours of practice. But my thing, my best advice is like just keep at it, you know, find a mentor, find a YouTube video, whatever you gotta do. Keep keep at it, keep chipping away at it. The only way you won't get there is to put that guitar down and not pick it up again.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:25

Very fair. I love it. Cool. Thank you so much, Alan, for being here, for chatting with us. Of course, of course. Uh, now we get to do the the fun plug your shit moment. So please, I know we talked about some in the beginning, but if you have anything coming up or anything you'd like people to be on the lookout for or where they can find you, let them know.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

Uh cool, man. All right. So uh if you're looking for me, I guess Instagram is the best place to find me at heavymaytall, M-E-I-T-A-L. Uh, all of my stuffs are there. Uh, my band Lavinia is in the process of releasing some new singles. We just released one in May. We got another one coming out in two weeks, I believe. So that's uh at Lavinia Official, L-E-V-I-N-I-A. Uh, my own project uh Psychomantium, hopefully it'll be out later this year. I got the videos recorded. I just got to figure out how to release this shit, and it'll be out hopefully in the next couple months. Um, I think that's all I got. And of course, everything we're working on, you're gonna plug for me, so I don't have to talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:26

Yeah, I'm I'm slowly working on it, but we'll have something together soon, boys. Um, okay. Thank you, everybody. Uh, if you enjoyed this, please follow, share the podcast, tell your friends if you think it'll be helpful, join the Discord rhythm dominion. It's a little quiet right now as I build things up, but I'm looking to start an online rhythm guitar and just guitar as community where we can all help each other out, share some riffs and uh insight, and it'd be great to have you there. Um so I'll see you next week for the next episode. And also, we're trying this new thing with adding topics to the episode. So if there's a topic you want us to discuss, let us know in the comments. And uh we'll see you all next time.