Art, Politics & the Spaces in Between with Sorcha O'Higgins

What happens when we stop assuming there is only one way to live?

In this conversation, artist and activist Sorcha O'Higgins reflects on the experiences that shaped her political consciousness, from London to Argentina to rural Mayo, and how choosing differently has transformed the way she works, creates and shows up in her community.

Together, we explore creativity, capitalism, agency, making art alongside a day job, holding contradiction, why community matters, and the quiet courage of building a life around what you truly value.

This isn't a conversation about having all the answers.

It's a conversation about remembering that another way is possible.

Sorcha O'Higgins is an artist living in Mayo, Ireland. She's passionate about freedom and equality for everyone, everywhere, and believes that politics is central to that (within the current systems we have, anyway). She's the chair of the Mayo branch of the Social Democrats, and wants to promote positivity, and real opportunities for the public good of social democracy. She loves Catherine Connolly, Zohran Mamdani and David Bowie, and is currently obsessed with Heated Rivalry. 


You can find more info and see some of Sorcha's collage work on her Instagram page here: https://www.instagram.com/sorchaoh_collage/

Thank you so much for listening.

If this conversation gave you hope, challenged your thinking, or left you with something to carry into your own life, I'd be so grateful if you subscribed, left a review, or shared this episode with someone who'd enjoy it too. It really helps more people discover these conversations.

If you'd like to bring a little more of the spirit of GLIMMERS into your own day-to-day, I've created a free gift for you: Your Glimmers Practice—a gentle 20-minute guided audio and reflection workbook to help you notice the moments of hope, beauty and possibility that are already around you.

You can download it for free at:
https://stephaniemackinnon.myflodesk.com/glimmers

And if you're longing for more support as you begin creating another way of being in your own life, I'd love to welcome you into ROOTED, my coaching and community space. You can find out more at:
https://stephaniemackinnon.com/rooted

Until next time, keep noticing the glimmers.

Transcript

Stephanie 0:34

I am so excited to introduce you to Sorcha O'Higgins. Sorcha is a dear friend and is an artist living in County Mayo, Ireland. She is passionate about freedom and equality for everyone, everywhere, and believes that politics is central to that within the current system we have anyway. She is the chair of the Mayo branch of the Social Democrats and wants to promote the positivity and real opportunity for public good of social democracy. She loves Catherine Connolly, our Irish president, Zoran Mamdani, I'm sure you all know him at this stage, and David Bowie. She is currently obsessed, like I'm sure many of you are, with heated rivalry. Welcome, Circa. It's such a joy to have a conversation with you today. Thank you, Steph. Thanks for having me. So Zirka and I have many of these conversations on a regular basis anyway. And we've tried to narrow down a few things that we think you folks listening would would enjoy hearing. But before we dive into the specifics of her art and political engagement, um, I'd really love to hear from you, Circa, if there's a moment looking back on your earlier years or even into the past just a few years, that um really created your political consciousness. I think sometimes of it as a radicalizing moment, radical in the sense that Angela Davis defined it as simply getting to the very root of things, a recognition that the systems we live within, capitalism, patriarchy, white supremacy, were really built to maintain the power and the wealth of the few rather than the many. So as you cast your memory back, is there any moments that come to mind for you?

Sorcha 2:36

I think there are two in particular. I think the first one is just a more general awakening of political consciousness, I think. And that was probably when I moved to London after I graduated when I was 24. Um, because up until that point I'd lived in Ireland where it had always just been a coalition government. Finafall, Findigail, I never knew the difference. It was just they both had a lot of F. In many ways, I still don't know the difference. I just know it's bad. Still bad. Um, but I guess when I moved to to London, um, and obviously they have a different political system, it's very much a two-party system. And I was that was the first time that I was also, you know, earning my own wage. Uh I wasn't living at home anymore. I'd lived at home and be through college, and I was out in the world and I was working, and it was the first time that I realized, oh, the politics have an impact on me, you know, on the money I earn, on one my taxes, on where those taxes go. Um, it was also just at that time the first time in a long time that there had been a coalition government in the UK. Um, it was the the Tories and the the Lib Dems at that point. And I think I had also it's prescient, I suppose, but like I had had a lot of faith in Nick Clegg, who was the leader of the Lib Dems, and the Lib Dems just got eviscerated as these smaller parties often do. And now I think he's an advisor for Meta or something, you know. Like there's the political trajectory of somebody like him, somebody like Tony Blair, you know, and the kind of capitalist system that we live in is always is just really disillusioning. So so anyway, but like that was that was a point where I was like, oh, politics matter. There's a different way to understand them that like is is not just two parties that saying the same that have always been in power. Um and uh and yeah, I suppose as as a as a person who was out working it, it you know, it it had an impact um on me specifically. Uh maybe I'll just add in another kind of which I think just sets context for the more recent political awakening. I was living in Argentina when Brexit happened, and that was I remember staying up like and the time with the time difference, it was the middle of the night, I think, in in uh Argentina, and staying up to watch the results and just watching, I think it was maybe Trevor Macdonald or somebody, you know, just kind of ashen faced with the the results of Brexit, you know, being like leave leaving, being voted in. And I remember crying and really feeling like so viscerally at that moment, like because that was what, maybe 2015, and was it 2016 that like the Trump was running for president?

Speaker 2 5:20

And I remember 16, yeah.

Speaker 5:22

Yeah, and I remember that when Brexit happened, I was like, well, Trump's gonna get elected. Like that can that can happen now because of the binaries that it sort of presented us with, you're your leave or your remain, you know, like um and then I guess more recently was when Trump got re-elected, um, which was around the same time as a a general election, you know, the last general election in Ireland. And I suppose there was nobody in Mayo that I wanted to vote for. You know, everybody was sort of there was there was a kind of probably a paper candidate for People Before Prophet in in Castle Bar, um, who I I was I would vote for for sure. Um, but there was nobody else, and the only candidates then were like Funafall and Finnegale, and I just felt so unrepresented. Um, and around the time that happened as well, then Donald Trump got elected, and I remember seeing video by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to like the day after the election, and she was like, Well, what can we do? You know, we need to process, we need to grieve, but then we need to do something and like get to know other people, join community, whether that's like your local knitting circle or like, you know, you're going and doing beach cleans, whatever it is, but like we have you have to do something, you know. And I had felt that anyway, so I guess I, you know, I would probably have been an armchair activist or whatever, up until that point, or just reposting stuff on Instagram and um but uh then I was like, okay, I can't just be pissed off about stuff and not do anything about it. I have to have to do something about it because we can, we do have agency. Um it might feel like we don't, but we do. Uh so then I joined the Social Democrats um in and was involved in setting up a Mayo branch, basically. Because there hadn't been one. Yeah. So that's brief history of the past 25 years.

Speaker 2 7:19

No, but I mean, thank you. Thank you for sharing that overview with us. And I think there's a beautiful thread that runs throughout it in that the recognition of the power that we give the elected officials, because ultimately that's the way a democracy is intended to work, is they're working for us. But if the people who are in those positions of power do not reflect the majority, or the majority feel there is no hope and no point in voting, it means they continue to get forgotten. So I think uh seeing Mom Dani in power and seeing what somebody who does reflect the people can actually do has been such a source of hope for so many beyond New York. But also seeing your initiative and willingness to say, okay, if I don't feel represented here, who are the other people that feel the same way? And how can I, how can I build community and create connection and invite other people in? So I'm sure I'm not the only one in Mayo who's grateful for the initiative that you've taken. Um but I I also want to zoom out and go back to another part of um your story that you were sharing. And I think uh it connects into the artistic side of you. And um I'm just wondering if you would be up for speaking to the transition from your life in London to your life in Argentina and coming um to give space to that artistic part of yourself.

Speaker 8:54

For sure. And I I think that's you could completely contextualize that politically too, you know. I mean, when I moved to Argentina, I didn't this this isn't why I went here, I wasn't considering this at all. But what I found when I moved there was that like coming from Ireland, which is you know like a mini US in a lot of ways, in terms of like the capitalistic You're not wrong, yeah. Like I mean, God, you know, it's it's yeah, there's a lot we can't do because we're so connected to to the US. Um uh but and and then going from London, which was just like a you know, I mean, you're on uh I I remember when I left London, a friend of mine was we were talking about me leaving, and you know, that it was just really kind of rat racy, and she was like, Yeah, I just sometimes feel like I'm on like the the train of a train of my own life, but I'm just a passenger. And I was like, oh my god, that's so true, you know. It was like really hard to carve out any time for yourself in in London because you have to be working all the time and it's this really competitive, you know, like productivity race to the bottom, like and the commute is always so long, and um and I was really miserable, honestly. And I used to be an architect, so I was working in a creative, you know, industry quote unquote creative job, creative industry. Um, and when I moved to Argentina, you know, it's like a very economically volatile place, uh, you know, totally sort of different to the capitalist places that I had come from. But what I saw that that sort of provided people was I guess in that like when you can't just be chasing money because it was also the pesos, you know, I mean it got it. It's from being, yeah, completely worthless to maybe worth a little bit more, you know. Um so economically, like the the uh the situation didn't lend itself to kind of orienting your entire life around making money. Um so in the absence of that, people just did what they wanted to do. Um and obviously people had to make money, but like you know, a lot of the people that I knew, and I knew a lot of different types of people, but like say the more kind of like even traditional people, like maybe they would work in like a call center or like a bank or something like that. But like if you asked them what they did, they would be like, I'm an actor, I run a theatre company, or you know, I I'm a jazz musician, you know, they would define themselves by their passions and their interests as opposed to like what they did to make money. Um and I also was when I when I after about six months I started working as a tour guide for uh like a non-profit that worked with street artists, so graffiti artists. Um but around that time as well, you know, graffiti and street art were sort of transitioning to kind of become this more mainstream thing as well. So there were these big mural festivals starting to happen all over the world, and you know, these guys were getting flown all over the place, and they're kind of like mini art celebrities, I guess, you know. Um which they were also critical of because that's the way Argentina is as well. They're critical thinkers, they weren't like, you know, totally on the gravy train, and I think they would still have sort of thought that, you know, there were kind of brand deals or whatever that they were doing that maybe meant they were selling out, but that's kind of an aside. But I suppose a lot of those guys, like they would have started off in creative professions like me. They were architects, they were graphic designers, they were set designers, um, and they probably would have been making, you know, the same amount of money maybe as a guy in the call center. Like it's not like those jobs were any more economically viable. But just the timing and the dedication and the passion and self-belief, I think, you know, that like they had because they were like, well, fuck it. I mean, we, you know, there's no point in me working in a bank because it's not like I'm gonna make any more money than I can, you know, doing this street art thing and being flown to Miami and maybe selling a few pieces. And like, you know, it just kind of um showed me, I think, I guess, that there was a possibility of a different way of life where you could like orient yourself around, you know, like your your passion, whatever that was. But as a creative person, you know, there's the kind of typical sort of like um, you know, I'm starving artist type trope. Totally. And I find that really frustrating because it's like not that it's not true, but it doesn't have to be true. 100%. And it's also like, you know, what pain, what's the pain in life you're willing to sustain? And I think creative people, like, it's so inherent to to us to have to make stuff that you just you just can't put that in a box. Like you just can't. Like you have to do it. So, like, and and that can mean that you just have to be okay with making less money, but that's fucked because it just means that other people don't value it.

Speaker 2 13:34

Anyway. It becomes a bit of a reinforcing cycle sometimes. But I think the thing that I'm hearing about the transition to Argentina that is really, really interesting. And I think that those of us who have had the privilege of moving to different places, um, like me coming to Ireland, I see a lot of similarities, even though um Ireland is quite capitalist, but compared to North America, maybe not as much. Yeah.

Speaker 14:01

That's that's different to Canada as well?

Speaker 2 14:03

Uh Canada's like America light in this variety, I would say. But I think just that experience of having maybe the boxes that we put around ourselves without even realizing of like this is how you do life, this is how everyone around you does it. There's no other option. You either do it or you don't. And just to see that that can be blown open completely in a different context and almost flipped entirely on its head. I love the example of when you ask someone what they do, it's not about how they earn their livelihood. Or even when working quote unquote more professional jobs didn't actually mean more cash. What that then creates is how people choose to spend their time.

Speaker 14:49

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 14:51

Um yeah, and I just I know myself and moving here. I think in particular for those who don't know County Mayo, the west of Ireland, it's um if Ireland is still quite capitalist-oriented, uh, we are like in nature here. And I think that the people who choose to live in the area where we live have done so because they've almost opted out of the rat race.

Speaker 15:15

Well, I I suppose I would see I would say the same for like a lot of the people, you know, from who weren't from Argentina, like the expats or whatever that I knew. Not not all of them, you know, because like I mean, there's everyone has their own term anyway, but like you're immigrants. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Um you just you're just white and you have a lot more privilege. Like, we're just gonna name it because we know it. Yeah, you're not like forced to come here to support yourself as well. You can return whatever you want. Exactly. Um but I know a lot of people, like a lot of people who lived in Argentina when I was there, and there's still friends of mine who like literally, yeah, they were opting out and looking for a different way to live, and like uh being in Argentina really showed them that like that was possible. Um so and I would say that maybe you know it is it's like it's a particular type of person who seeks that out too, you know. It's like you know, it's not everybody who's gonna want to live in Argentina or live in Ireland from Canada or you know, like it is kind of like that they are searching for something different, I guess.

Speaker 2 16:45

Yeah, and I think uh I'm sure I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again. Like the ways we talk about things are not the right way. Like the illusion of a right way is also a capitalist lie. Yes, yeah, like it's what feels right for individuals. But I I'm then curious, Cerca, as we continue to move on this journey of the last approximately 25 years of your life, casually. Um Argentina blew everything wide open for you and kind of like flipped certain priorities on their head, gave you another perspective, um, you then move back to Ireland. And in knowing you, I can see so many of the ways that the time in Argentina has imprinted on how you move through the world to this day, even being back in this physical space, in this context, in this economy. And I think one of the pieces that stands out in particular is the journey of honoring finding time for your art practice while resisting the narrative that an artist must be starving and broke to be making art. And I think my understanding with all of the artists I know and love is that it's an ongoing challenge to navigate. But I'm wondering if you can speak to that um balance for lack of a better word.

Speaker 18:17

I mean, I I would see it as a balance, like in a like a lot of the the how I see it in my head is a is a scales, you know. And I think it's always been the way for like so I I was an architect and then I kind of freelanced, I suppose, in various different guises for about 10 years. Um and even even then, you know, there was like okay, in in on the left-hand scale, there's maybe the work that you do to get paid, you know, that like is at at certain points it's you know, like maybe at the start it's like higher than like the right-hand scale, which is the stuff that you want to be doing, you know, but there's it doesn't make you as much money, so you can't dedicate as much time to it. The goal for me was always, you know, to have that scale, the balance of that scale kind of be in the reverse. I never really felt like I would be able to get rid of, you know, maybe the money-making thing as completely. And I also did it's not like I ever really wanted to necessarily because I like variety. So like I was like, I can make money in a lot of different ways, you know. It's not all gonna be from art. Like, and because I do a lot of different things creatively, you know, I I I I write, I make collages, I do embroidery, I do workshops, I make flowers, I just I do a lot of stuff, you know. So I was like, there's ways to monetize these things, you know, not to the degree that like I end up doing it full time and then hating it, because that's also like a risk, you know. It's like people who really like to cook at home. People are like, you should be a chef, and they're like, well then I'd hate it. And you're like, yeah, you would, you probably like you know, turning your passion into your job. Um but I think I'm in like a pretty good I suppose there's two more things. There's two things. There's like I'm in a good place now. I have a day job, but the day job I have it really, really works for me. Like, and I've I've really been like, and this hasn't been an overnight thing, this has taken me like 15 years, you know, but like I've really designed my life in a way now that it really suits me. So I have a job three and a half days a week for like a creative agency, like a branding agency in Dublin. I live in Mayo. The agency is in Dublin, but I'm remote and I'm also asynchronous. So I don't work any fixed hours, I just get my work done. They give me a lot of agency, they trust me. Um, they're great. Like I love the people I work with, everybody's super smart, everybody's like, you know, a person that I actually like, you know, we we take the work seriously. We're like we're serious about the work, but we don't take it too seriously, you know. Um like everybody realizes that it's a you know, like we're just we're I I squint, I squint like at the the stuff about it that makes me uncomfortable, you know, which is like, you know, so just for example, like we are uh doing a rebrand for an engineering company that um does data centers. So like you know, they're engineers. I used to work in uh construction, I know these people. They're like people I've similar to the people I went to college with. They're all good, smart, hardworking people. But like and it's not like I'm out there building the data centers, but I'm facilitating this company to like, you know, I'm giving them a new suit that they can wear and look better out so, you know, in the marketplace so people can kind of like avail of their services more. To what end? To rob to hike all of our energy prices, to like, you know, drain way more like water, to take up vast tracts of land for AI? Like that feels deeply uncomfortable for me. But like I don't know, I don't even know if there's a button that it just does.

Speaker 2 22:10

It feels uncomfortable for me. I think it's one of the things that I speak to so many folks about. So I'm sure whether people can relate to that very specific example or not, they know the feeling of being like, how am I holding the contradictions in my day-to-day? Yeah, I think I think late-stage capitalism is living through it is deeply about holding the contradictions. Absolutely. Because this job gives you the space, gives you the income that let's be abundantly clear, we all need money to survive in this moment.

Speaker 22:45

Especially when everything is just getting so much more expensive all the time. Well, it's not like our income is rising to meet that. Like people are really struggling.

Speaker 2 22:53

Big time. And I think it also gives you the space to participate in local politics to demand bigger change. It gives you You the space to create. It gives you all of these things we deserve. And holding one alongside the other, I think we're often told it needs to be all or nothing. But the reality of day-to-day is these messy, confusing moments.

Speaker 23:18

100%. And that exists within like my company too. You know, I mean, we do like this is just one project, you know. We also do like low bono work for for environmental charities, and we do work for mu like Irish museums and and dance company. You know, we do a huge range of work. So totally just like this one thing. This is the one that feels sticky in the moment. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm able to voice that with them as well, which is, you know, great. But I guess then so there's there's the you know three and a half days of money-making work, which I'm lucky enough to enjoy and work with great people, working on uh like it's always interesting, even if I'm like, oh, this feels a bit like weird for me. Like it's an interesting job to have because it's never boring.

Speaker 2 24:01

And I am gonna gently challenge the use of the word lucky because I hear your gratitude for it, but I also think something I heard you almost name, but not quite, because you're modest and I love that. Is that what you did and what is so important, I think, for all of us to remember is you got clear on what the working conditions were that you needed to thrive. And you consistently asked for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that piece of like, oh, well, I either need to not do that work or I need to move to Dublin. Like these are the instead of consistently being like, okay, what do I want and how can I ask for it? And I think, especially as those of us who are socialized as women, like minorities, uh, we're told to just be grateful with what's handed to us. And I think that one of the things I really admire about you, Circa, is the clarity of what you need and the courage to ask for it when it feels safe to do so. Yeah. So lucky sure, but also like you cultivated this. You know, this happened.

Speaker 25:04

It's true. That is true. Um and again, I think because I had sort of like worked for myself for so long, and I was also surrounded by like a lot of really determined people when I was in Argentina and people who had like not settled or sacrificed what they wanted for money or ease. You know, it's not it's not easy to to choose your own path and to to fight for it and to like you know make decisions based on what's gonna make you happy as opposed to make somebody else happy, you know, like society or your parents or whoever, you know. Um and so, you know, I was surrounded by people who were doing that as well. And I know that I've inspired other people to do that too, you know. Um, but I guess then where like you know, the in the terms of the design of my life and where my art comes into that or my art practice, like I I had for a while I was kind of like, okay, I have this like other day and a half, because I work three and a half days a week, so I have this other day and a half to like, you know, make art. It just wasn't really happening like that. So I've sort of pivoted that now to be like, I'm just always making stuff. I'm always making art. And like whether that's you know, I d I have ten minutes between two calls, and like I'll just like I have a piece out that like a collage out that I'm working on, or you know, I just have the sewing machine like on the table at all times, and I just do a bit little bit now, or like, you know, like that I mean sometimes the ten minutes turns into half an hour or two hours or whatever, but it's just it's always there, it's always like I'm always on with it. Like there's not so much of a comp compartmentalization, I guess, of like this is my art time, this is my job time. It's like all the time is art time, and then job time fits in around that kind of I suppose.

Speaker 2 26:49

This is amazing. I hadn't heard you describe it in this way. It's relatively new, like it's kind of yeah, it's something like it's a but I can see the transition in like uh in how much more you've been making and what you've been sharing. And I think what I'm sure some of the artistic folks who maybe feel far away from their practice at the moment might hear in that is a gentle invitation that like even just to touch the art, the practice for a moment is enough. Yeah. Like it doesn't have to be perfect, it doesn't have to be finished, it doesn't have to be the fluidity of just like giving yourself time to be like, ah, it's all set up, it's there, I can just go touch it and do a little bit, and also give myself permission to get lost in it if that happens.

Speaker 27:37

It's like people who like, you know, are play chess and have like the chess set out all the time and they're just kind of walking by it and they'll, you know, have a look and make a move and then just walk off and come back to it. You know what it's like. Gorgeous comparison. I love that. I feel like it's I wish I was one of those chess people, and I do have a chess set, but I don't do that with it because I'm nowhere near good enough. If I did it more, I would be better.

Speaker 2 28:00

Someday maybe the chess set will be on the kitchen table instead of the sewing machine. And I love that. Um The other thing I know you have um courageously pushed yourself toward this year is an exhibition. Oh, yeah. In the autumn.

Speaker 28:15

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 28:16

Do you want to tell us a bit more about Yeah?

Speaker 28:19

I mean, it's like I had one exhibition before I left Argentina, but that was really because I was just like moving out of my house and I needed to get rid of stuff.

Speaker 1 28:29

And I just read the honesty of it.

Speaker 28:31

And I realized that I just had all these collages that had built up over a couple of years. I was like, oh, I should, you know, I should sell these or like have a show or whatever. And the show was also a good reason, like it I didn't want to do like you know, a big leaving party or anything like that. So it was just kind of like, okay, I can get everybody I know together at this one event and sort of in my head say goodbye here, you know, without having to actually get people together to do that. Sounds like a very practical approach to all of the things that needed to happen. It was. Um, and it's like I probably the same thing has happened now that I'm like I you know, I think I was like, Well, I should somebody had maybe suggested, oh, you should have an exhibition. I hadn't even thought of it. And then when I went looking, because I when somebody said it, I was like, God, yeah, I mean I have loads of stuff. And then I went looking and I have so much stuff that it just feels it feels mad, how A, how much I have, and B that it's all just like sitting there. Like even some things I'm like, where is that? And I think I just left it in the printers. Like, but it's also about like me, like the fact that I can leave an an original collage that I have made just in the printers and forget about it, is like just shows me how I need to value the work that I do more, you know. Like, and so I think that that is that's the exhibition as well, you know. It's like I have all this stuff, I have it to show to people. I want to be taking myself more seriously, I want to be leveling up, I want to be pushing myself and like doing new things and getting making new work and getting more traction, whatever that looks like, you know. I mean, obviously it'd be great if it was like I can make, I can sell more stuff to make more stuff, you know, like you know, the goal is to be able to work, like to live, not completely, but like more, again, like the balance, you know, like from my art. So I'm like, okay, this isn't like this isn't just falling in, I'm not just throwing this into the void of like, you know, portfolios in my studio or stacks of you know, that this actually is going somewhere I'm showing it to people, like, because that's what needs to happen now.

Speaker 2 30:43

Yeah, I I think it's such a beautiful honouring of the value of your work for yourself and letting it be seen and celebrated beyond your home or your incredible Instagram page.

Speaker 30:56

Yeah, well, yeah, there's the Instagram as well. But uh but yeah, and it's just having like stuff physical and like an opportunity again for kind of people to come together and um and and me to yeah, just be like, this is what I'm doing. This is my stuff. And then also to be like, right, that stuff is all out of the way now. What's next? What's new? What am I doing?

Speaker 1 31:18

Yeah.

Speaker 2 31:20

You Oh, the one thing I want to when and where is the exhibition?

Speaker 31:25

Oh, it's on in the circular uh which is a pub in Royalto in Dublin on November 13th, I want to say. 12th or 13th or 13th. Mid-November. Mid-November. Mid-November in Dublin.

Speaker 2 31:40

Check out Circa's Instagram page, which I will link below if you're interested in following along. Um you shared on that very Instagram page just the other day, maybe yesterday, time, um, a piece commenting on war, the state of the world. And to me, it really stood out as um, and correct me if I'm wrong, you may have brought your politics more into your art in ways that I wasn't as aware of before, but it really um kind of felt like a convergence of these two parts of you. This um increasingly public activist part of yourself, outspoken about the state of the world and what Ireland needs to do to represent its citizens and the human rights globally, um, alongside your collage practice. Um you're nodding. Did you? Yeah.

Speaker 32:38

Yeah. No, for sure. I mean, it's I suppose kind of in the well, first of all, I the calling myself an activist still feels a bit uncomfortable to me. Not because I'm not because I'm not. I just know people who are just so much more engaged than I am and so much more active than I am, and like just knowing what that takes, and like not that we all need to be the same or even, you know, like I hear you.

Speaker 2 33:07

It it feels like bigger shoes than you're comfortable to.

Speaker 33:09

Yeah, totally. But like I am like, yeah, I'm an but I'm also way more active than I used to be, you know. I used to just be pissed off and like, but now I'm like and now I'm doing something about it, you know, which means that I am active, so maybe I'm an activist. Fine. Maybe TBD, we'll come back to you. But I think when I kind of unearthed a lot of this like work that I had done, like particularly over the pandemic when I was living in Dublin and I had a studio, I had an artist studio. Um it's the first time I'd ever had one, and I haven't I haven't had one since, and I loved it and I really miss it, and I'm desperate for a kind of art like an art community at the moment. Um, because it's like I have amazing friends and really interesting people like yourself, you know. But like I'm feel I do feel like I'm kind of missing that like art like community to kind of be plugged into. Um and so I kind of had a little bit there, although I was all like two meters in with masks and whatever. Um but I think when I kind of pulled out some of the stuff that I had been making then, and because then I had I really did have time, you know, and I was able to be much more intentional, and I was applying, I was I was applying for a grant, and I kind of had like a guy who was gonna set up to be my mentor, and so I was being a lot more intentional with the work I was creating and kind of like not just being like, oh, this feels good or this looks good. It was like maybe I'm trying to say something, or maybe I'm trying to create, you know, some sort of a world or a scene or tell a story or something. There was an intentionality to the stuff that I was making then, and when I brought it out more recently, I was like, oh my god, like A, some of it's really good that I hadn't kind of I was like, fuck, that's really good, like like you know, surprising myself myself almost. But some of it was, it really was kind of like I could see those kernels of like the politicization or like the you know, maybe anger, or like, you know, kind of trying to just like process or express like what I was feeling, or like maybe even represent, I suppose, like things about the world. And and I think seeing that stuff, it's almost given me confidence to be like, oh, I did it then. I can and like I'm way more pissed off now. I can definitely do it again. I can definitely do it again. And I was at like the RHA a couple of weeks ago. RHA. Their Royal Hibernian Academy of Arts, I think. In in Dublin, it's a it's an art gallery. And every year they have this annual show, which is kind of like an open call, so any artist can submit like a piece to it, and they select I don't maybe 250 of them or something like that. And then I went to NCID, which is the National College of Art and Design, so that's like a third-level like institute uh of education, and I went to see the and it was their end-of-year show. So it was like art students doing their graduate show. So I went to see these two art exhibitions um in the same day, but then I read a review of the RHA annual show in a paper a couple of days later. It was just a headline, but it was like there's a lot of escapism, but where's the rage? And I hadn't really felt that at the time because I was kind of looking at it with a different lens to be like, what's here? And you know, I because I'm getting into kind of textiles and embroidery, just looking at the embroidery stuff. But like when I read that headline, I was like, that's so true. Like, where where is the rage? Where is the like and I was like, Well, I actually there there's space for that. Like I it might not be, and I think where you know, when you're like maybe when you say, Oh, maybe I just haven't been like, you know, exposed to before, I think there's because a lot of the work that you would see publicly that I do is kind of commissioned, it's for clients, you know. So like and that has a particular maybe like tone. I think stylistically you could maybe read like everything from as being from the same person, you know, it all kind of looks like something that I would make, but it's the tone of it, you know, when it's something for a client, it's usually pretty fun and like you know, whimsical and like playful. And there's there's a level of that in the stuff that I'm doing as well, but it's maybe a little bit more like not whimsical, but maybe like going into absurdity, you know, in that way that it's There's a real commentary in it and the pieces you're bringing together. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 37:14

Make it hard to look away, but also easier to look at at the same time. I feel like that's the real contradiction that it holds.

Speaker 37:24

Yeah, and I think it's like I am definitely trying to say something and like express myself, and I think it's it's becoming more important to me, like where I get them the images from as well. So like I paid stupid money for this like magazine for from like 1939. But when I opened it and there were just these like photographs of like, you know, German soldiers in 1939 training like for like j jumping out of planes and how they're gonna roll to and they're like, We're not sure if this is any militaristic benefit, and like it was just so ridiculous, like these, you know, like men rolling around the ground with like you know, Nazi planes in the background, and you're just like, what?

Speaker 2 38:06

Like But to have access to that type of material.

Speaker 38:10

Yeah, but it's really important to me then, and like I you know, I think I've been because of everything that's happening in Gaza and because of kind of being like all of these things are universal. To think that it just happens over there is just like not, it's such bullshit. Like, so I think that's been kind of forcing me to kind of confront things that I've ignored here as well, like like the trolls in the in the north of Ireland and you know, like the tr reckoning with that and like seeing what books I have at home and the then kind of being like, oh my god, like if you take, you know, the the live streaming of you know the genocide in Gaza that we see on our phones, like the imagery of that, you know, and you put it beside, like, you know, I have another magazine on the like the the Berlin Wall and like, you know, kind of just like barren patches of land that are there that have been destroyed because of the war, and then like the you know, destruction in the north of Ireland, like they're all the same, they all look the same.

Speaker 2 39:06

And I think for those of you, I have this very clear image in my head of one of Serga's most recent collages, and it's layering these images from different um war zones, really, on top of one another with humans who are trying to live within it.

Speaker 1 39:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 39:24

And the the amount of humanity that comes through, but also the amount of destruction alongside it, and just like the inability to almost decipher which experience or which historic which historical moment is which, and just that commonality. And I think it's a very overused quote, but one of the ones that I consistently think of when art does create an avenue, not just for the artist to express the rage and expose the moment, but is the really famous one from Tony Kate Babara, the role of the artist is to make the revolution irresistible.

Speaker 1 40:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2 40:02

I don't know that one but I think it's just art has such an incredible power, not just for the maker to process a lot of these things, but also for those who have the privilege of witnessing it to expand their horizons, to think about things in different ways, to make different connections, to feel seen, to know that like they're not the only one. Like there's so many. Look, we could spend a long time here for me talking about the benefit of art. Yeah, but I just I was genuinely really excited when I saw that piece to see you exploring these types of themes. And um, it makes me excited to see more of your work.

Speaker 40:46

So yeah, and it makes me excited as well. I suppose there is that kind of like, you know, it does make me a bit, I don't know, not nervous. Like there's a nervousness to it. This is okay. Yeah. Yeah, it makes me a bit nervous, but it also is kind of like I can I can understand why somebody would want a different piece of mind that is more whimsical, that's more playful, that's a bit more like bold or whatever, and like be like, yeah, I could have that on my wall. You know, I don't really see the the people wanting, you know, that's like war analysis collages on their walls.

Speaker 2 41:22

You guys make both. And yeah, you're every piece doesn't have to be for every person.

Speaker 41:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. But I but that's I can't, you know, it's I suppose that these are like lines of tension that are becoming more obvious to me now as well. It's like, you know, there's a whole like kind of more academic engagement with art where you need to apply for funding and like, you know, because it's performance art.

Speaker 2 41:42

It's not things that you can buy, it's not like value you can quantify, because at the end of the day, the people who do that as well are just like art dealers and they the industry of so many things, and I think that becomes as somebody who's worked a lot in community and nonprofit work myself. It's like there's I see the art worlds knowing having close friends and clients who are artists. I know the community work well, world, community work world well as well. And like each of them have these like outward-facing realities of like, this is what we are, and aren't these values great? And then there's the reality of all of those industries trying to survive under capitalism and the ways that they're pushed to financialize so many things.

Speaker 1 42:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 42:26

So I think that forever-winding, bending road of navigating like what am I making for what and for who? And is it fulfilling me? Is it also sustaining me in some ways? All of these pieces are constant. Um I have so enjoyed this chat.

Speaker 42:48

Me too. That's like great questions. I haven't just like forced me to consider things. I previously haven't, so I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 42:55

Uh no, my absolute pleasure as well. Um why is there anything else that came up that you're like, oh shoot, I don't want to forget to say that?

Speaker 43:06

Or um yeah, I would just, I suppose, encourage people not to say, like, join the social democrats, but like but maybe do, but maybe do. Or like, you know, if it's not the social democrats, it doesn't need to be the social democrats. I but I do think that like I join the social democrats because I think we have a chance. And I think that there is an increased, and you know, you mentioned Zorin Mandani, like he's not just the mayor of New York, he's like an international like figure of political positivity. Like he kind of has shown people that like politics can can work for you. It can, I don't want to say it can be fun, but it can be fresh, it can be exciting. Like, you know, and I think that like it's really important that like we know that we have power and agency and that like we can actually affect things, but it requires us to do it. Yeah, I think it requires us to actually do something about it, and that is annoying and uncomfortable and takes time and it requires you to like give of yourself and sacrifice other things, maybe. I get that, but like it's too important to to not. Yeah. You know, it's like Naomi Klein in that in Do Doppelganger, you know, she's talking about kind of, you know, the Trump Maya, whatever, and how ridiculous it is. But one of the things she sort of keeps saying, and maybe it's somebody else who says it, but it's like it's too like it seems too ridiculous to to take seriously, but it's too serious to like make ridiculous. It's too serious to not pay attention to. Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's where we're at. Like things are too serious for us to not pay attention to, and like then to kind of also not do something about, but do it in your own way. Like, even if it is just like we're going and finding community and like being like meeting people and talking to people and being curious and like you know, talking to people who are different than you, and like being open to other people and really seeing what people are going through. People are it's fucking hard for people, like yeah, it's really hard for people, and it's getting harder for all of us. Like big time. So just I think Yeah, just that.

Speaker 2 45:22

Just that small point. Yeah. No, but I I really appreciate that. And I think, like you said, it's not the right answer for everyone. Um, but knowing that for yourself and for anyone else who may be considering it, being engaged in politics in the area where you're living gives you the chance to connect with other like-minded people and know that you are actively part of advocating for better for everyone. Yes. Yeah. So um, yeah, if that's the the encouragement and the push you've been needing to reach out to your local progressive party that represents your values, go do it. Maybe they have an election coming up and they need some campaigners.

Speaker 46:02

Yes, go canvas. Canvassing is the single best thing you can do, even if you're not in a party. It's a nice way to like test out how it feels to be with them. So wonderful. Like it's you just get to speak to people.

Speaker 2 46:13

Zirka brought me out to do it once for the um presidential election here. Yeah, it's very kind of you. Yeah. You just get to have really curious chats with people. Yeah. Yeah. It's it it it still very much scares me because I'm like, who's in the big on the air?

Speaker 46:28

It is scary, but it's like there's nothing I've done where you can just call around to somebody, some a stranger's house and they will open the door and they will talk to you. Like it and you find out so much. It's so humbling, it's so illuminating.

Speaker 2 46:41

I heard some really tragic and some really beautiful stories just in that one night. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but I think, yeah, so maybe go canvas.

Speaker 46:50

I would say, I would say if there's one thing that people can do, it's it's go on canvas. Yeah. Go on canvas.

Speaker 2 46:56

Amazing. If you have it in you. If not, I'm sure there's another way you can get involved. Or maybe you're already really involved. And thank you. Thank you for doing your part. Um, all right. Thanks so much, Zirka. And um yeah, I'm sure I feel like this will not be our only chat like this. Stay tuned, folks. We'll be back soon.

Speaker 47:15

Thanks for having me.