The Systems We Inherit & How We Build Beyond Them - With Annie Gichuru

What becomes possible when we stop accepting inherited systems as inevitable and begin asking who they were built for, who they exclude and what we could create instead?

In this episode of GLIMMERS of Another Way of Being, I’m joined by Annie Gichuru, a leading racial equity coach and consultant for online entrepreneurs. Annie has supported prominent online business leaders to build intentionally inclusive businesses and works with the Beautiful You Coaching Academy as a racial equity trainer. Combining her experience as an internationally certified life coach, storyteller and human resources specialist, she is known for her compassionate approach to racial equity education and her incredible ability to hold space for meaningful change.

Together, we explore:

•  Annie’s experience of moving from Kenya to Australia and becoming newly conscious of her Blackness 
•  Why different histories and lived experiences shape how racial equity educators approach this work 
•  Calling people in with compassion; without removing accountability 
•  Why consuming more information is not the same as taking action 
•  The critical thinking required to question what we have inherited 
•  Who our workplaces, businesses and wider systems were originally built to serve 
•  Why surface-level inclusion can continue to reproduce exclusion 
•  How asking “Why do we do it this way?” can open the door to meaningful change 
•  The influence each of us holds, whether at a boardroom table, a dinner table or anywhere in between 

This is a conversation about seeing the systems shaping our lives clearly enough to stop unconsciously reproducing them and recognising the collective power we hold to build something better.

As Annie reminds us:

“Your voice has so much power in it. How are you going to use it?”

You can listen to Annie's Podcast here: https://anniegichuru.com/represented-podcast/
And download her AI Bias Guide for Coaches and Course Creators here: https://anniegichuru.com/ai-bias/

Thank you so much for listening.

If this conversation gave you hope, challenged your thinking, or left you with something to carry into your own life, I'd be so grateful if you subscribed, left a review, or shared this episode with someone who'd enjoy it too. It really helps more people discover these conversations.

If you'd like to bring a little more of the spirit of GLIMMERS into your own day-to-day, I've created a free gift for you: Your Glimmers Practice—a gentle 20-minute guided audio and reflection workbook to help you notice the moments of hope, beauty and possibility that are already around you.

You can download it for free at:
https://stephaniemackinnon.myflodesk.com/glimmers

And if you're longing for more support as you begin creating another way of being in your own life, I'd love to welcome you into ROOTED, my coaching and community space. You can find out more at:
https://stephaniemackinnon.com/rooted

Until next time, keep noticing the glimmers.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Folks, I am so excited to welcome Annie Gishirou to Glimmers today. Annie is a leading racial equity coach and consultant for online entrepreneurs. She has helped many prominent online business leaders build intentionally inclusive businesses, the most notable of which is her partnership with the Beautiful You Coaching Academy, where she supports trainees and emergent coaches as a racial equity trainer. She is deeply passionate about representation through a racial justice lens and combines her experience as an internationally certified life coach, her love of storytelling, and her extensive career as a human resource specialist to deliver Representative, a transformational online program, which has been described as a must for all business owners who are ready to build a racially diverse, inclusive, and equitable business. Annie's grace, gentle spirit, and passion for racial, for a racially equitable world is setting her apart in the coaching and personal development industry as a compassionate educator with an incredible space-holding ability. Annie has called Australia home for more than 25 years, having relocated from Kenya as an international student. Welcome, Annie. It is a joy and a privilege to have you on the podcast today.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

I am so happy to be here, Stephanie. Thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

So I'm super excited to get into this chat today. At the end of Annie's bio, she mentions moving to Australia 25 years ago from Kenya. And I um I'm wondering, Annie, if you can speak a little bit more to that experience. Because one of the things that we're curious about here on the Glimmers podcast is what some of the lived experience moments are that open our eyes to the realities of the systems in the world around us. And I know that this is an experience that uh has hugely shaped who you are and the work that you do in the world today.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Yes, Stephanie, going back over 25 years now, um coming to Australia as an international student, the plan was always to come here, study, and head on back home to Nairobi, Kenya. But I did not anticipate falling in love with this beautiful country, loving the lifestyle here and calling this place home longer than I did uh Kenya. What I do remember was so different uh coming over was just noticing how black I was because I had come from a country where 90 plus percent uh were black people and had lived in that all my life, and then relocating to study and getting into a country where I was now all right, I could hardly see any other people who were black, let alone people of color. And so I felt so different, I felt so black, and it's not because I didn't know I was, I did, but it was never so in my face, and it was in those moments of feeling less than, of feeling uh other, of feeling like I stood out for the wrong reasons, and just feeling just a feeling how people look at you, um, how people speak to you, that you were less than, and not maybe how you had thought of yourself coming from a place where you were all, so to speak, on an even playing field as far as race was concerned. And so for me, that happened instantly, identifying that I was so different and it didn't feel like it was for the right reasons.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that, Annie. I'm sure there's some listeners who can relate to the um similar experiences in their lives, and then there may be folks like myself who have moved through the world with an abundance of privilege who um can hopefully even try and put themselves in your shoes to imagine how difficult that may have been. Um of the things I was sharing with Annie before we started recording, and I think that this even micro insight into your lived experience really reiterates that is that it shows the absolute importance of racial equity work. That if people before they even open their mouth are being discriminated against in every environment they move through outside of their own home, um, the importance of challenging that and building a better world and building a brighter future for everyone is absolutely integral. So I'm so grateful to have your lived experience, your professional experience, all of you here on the podcast today. Um I had the privilege of learning from Annie. I looked back at the calendar, Annie. It was 2022 that I took representative, which is wild. So it was one of the early cohorts. Yeah, at least four years now. Um and I'm still a part of Annie's um alumni program, Ally, which is incredible. So grateful she hosts that because it's a strong recognition that this is lifelong work. This is not something that we is one and done. We don't check a box and move on. It's an ongoing um reckoning, unraveling, learning, whatever language we want to put to it. Um but one of the things that has forever stood out to me about Annie's approach is that it meets uh her learners, this the folks she holds space for, with um deep compassion. Um and I think coming from a North American context which uh is understandably in many ways hostile, um I was used to being called out or uh drowning in fear of doing something wrong. So I distinctly remember being held with um great compassion in your space um from the get-go. Um and I'm wondering if you can speak to the intentionality of how you hold space like that, Annie, because I know it's a cornerstone of how you work.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Yes, it is, it has really become my framework of how I teach this work, which is really through the framework of calling people in. And I think it has a lot to do with who I am uh as a human being, first and foremost, because just because I am a black woman teaching about racial equity uh doesn't mean that my lived experience is the same as other black people who have experienced racism. So, in the context as you've mentioned, North America, they um, and I don't want to put every single educator, anti-racism educator in that box. Of course, but they do have a very specific lived experience, you know, their ancestry uh is from slavery, whereas my ancestry is from colonization, which is different. It's the same, but it is different. Um, you know, for me, coming from Kenya, we were able to fight for our freedom and get our independence and leave as free, um, independent human beings and and be able to uphold our customs and our traditions and uh really live the life that all humans ought to live, you know, freely with sovereignty. Uh and so my lived experience is very, very different from somebody who has that, say, North American experience of um their ancestry coming from slavery and living in uh quite overt racism to this day. Um, my lived experience here in Australia has been very, very different. It's not to say that um there isn't any racism here. It is here, it's everywhere, it's even in places in Africa, in Kenya, but it shows up differently. And for me, my experience here has been such that whilst yes, I have been part of the minority, and yes, I have experienced moments of um racial inequity, it hasn't stopped me from progressing. It hasn't stopped me from living a full life, it hasn't stopped me from making the choice because it is by choice I live here, and this is home for me. Um, it hasn't stopped me from living a life that is full, and um as a mother, as a wife, and being able to really have opportunities available to me professionally and and and otherwise. Uh, and so that allows me to come into this work very differently, postured differently. Um, you mentioned aggression. I I don't have that because I haven't experienced that. And it's not to say that those who perhaps teach in that way are wrong, they're coming from their own lived experience. And you can only teach from from your um what do you have in your toolkit? And so my toolkit doesn't have that, it has a lot of how can I meet you where you're at? Um, that whole I'm angry or I'm exhausted or why aren't you getting this right? I don't have that because I haven't had to posture myself in that way in my own lived experience as a black woman in this country. And so there's a lot of room to meet you where you're at. And it just felt so natural for me when I looked around, particularly during that time of the murder of George Floyd and a lot of people getting into this work. For me, it felt very disingenuous to be coming across as, oh, so now you want to learn this, or this is what you need to do, or get it right, or we can't do this work. It's um, it's not free labor. It it didn't feel laborious to me. It didn't feel like you ought to know this or you shouldn't say that, or it wasn't from a place of constant correction. It was from a place of care. How can I meet you where you're at? Because I was looking at myself from the other perspective. If it was me who wanted to get to understand something, what is the environment that would be conducive for me to learn and to want to stay in there as well? So not just to understand, but to stay in this fight, because as you said so eloquently, this is lifelong work. So, how can I do it in a way that allows others to want to stay in it? And I remember the late um Ruth Bader Ginsberg, uh, just to quote her in one of her really wonderful mantras, she says, if you want to do something that where others can lock arms with you and come along on the journey with you, do it in a way that makes them want to, you know. And so for me, though, that resonated with me so deeply. And it was creating a space where there was permission to make mistakes, permission to call you in and say, hey, you know, what you've said or what you've done isn't appropriate. And here's why. So that when you know the why, you don't repeat it. But also you've been called in with grace so that you're not shamed, but rather you're held accountable with compassion and it makes you want to stay. It's like when you're educating a little kid, you know, when they make a mistake, you don't go like, oh, you're trying to walk here. Why are you why do you keep falling down every single moment? Get it right. No, they fall down and you know, we we help them get up, and when they make a few steps, we cheer them on. But we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't go like, how long is it gonna take you to walk? It's been ages. You're only nine months. Um, I think we really need to look at the environment that is going to be conducive for them to stay in this work. And I've seen it done really well, but I've also seen it done in such a harmful way that we're not seeing the sustainability within this work. And there are many people, and I know there might this might be controversial to say, Stephanie, who were wounded during that period of that great uh uh racial awakening, who came in really vulnerably wanting to learn, but it was such an aggressive environment that they just simply couldn't out of fear, out of just not wanting to rock the boat and get it wrong. And they got wounded, they never got into the work, it wasn't sustainable, and um probably ended up way, way further than they were to begin with.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yeah. That was a masterclass in and of itself, Annie. Thank you so much. No, it's true. Thank you so much for what you shared there, because unsurprisingly, you met the question I asked itself with grace and compassion, starting from the reality of acknowledging the different lived experiences of people of color from around the world. Like, I think that's one of the um really problematic things I see white people do is just like be like, oh, well, if it's true for one, it's true for all. And that just is such tokenism, it's such dismissal of lived experience. Um, so to recognize that the response, particularly in North America, is grounded from the violence of having to survive slavery and being completely uprooted from your ancestral homes and cultures and traditions. Um, and I think that to dismiss that reality and what has um to dismiss that history and how people are responding to present-day realities, which are deeply entangled in the history, is to do it a disservice. But also then to acknowledge that your lived experience, the history as um a Kenyan, the history of someone who has migrated by choice, um, all very different. So, naming that reality and the capacity that it gives you, the space you lean into having to be able to hold space for others in that way is just thank you. Thank you for the clarity of that articulation. Um and yeah, I think for me, I remember being in represented and it was a, I mean, it's still a volatile time to be alive. Let's be honest. It just things continue to reveal themselves more and more. What each year we're like, it couldn't possibly get worse, and somehow it does. But um I think, yeah, one of the particular moments and learnings that has really stuck with me. I remember dipping into using my social media platform for the first time to advocate for the things that I really believed in. And I had said to you that after each incident comes up in the news, I would panic check all of the leaders, the thought leaders who I looked up to, educators, to be like, okay, what am I supposed to think about this? Because I was so scared to get it wrong. And um I still think there's uh a lot of value in making sure your feed is filled with voices of people who don't look like you, who have different lived experiences. But what you gently nudged me toward doing is closing it all down when I first read the news and actually just letting myself write about why I was angry about something and to find my own voice within it. And sometimes that was to then share, and sometimes it was just to recognize where my understanding and shortcomings were without trying to regurgitate the right answer. So I think it just feels like a really tangible example of something that you've that is good advice. Did I tell you that about that is good advice? Well done, former Annie. Yeah. Um, but I think that there's that piece of like, how do I find myself in this moment and continue to move forward? So I'm wondering if there's other things that um, you know, yeah, stand out to you as similar examples of what the learning is really looking like for people in this wild, wild moment.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

I think firstly, to be cautious of how much you're consuming.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Sorry, I can't help but laugh. That's just yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

I think to be just really cautious of how much you're consuming and then what that consumption is then doing to you because sometimes we can be over consumers that never then take action. You can just be somebody who is just sitting down with your popcorn and just watching this tennis match taking place, moving from left to right, left to right, and just going like, um you're just consuming. So um that's the number one caution. How much are you uh taking in? And the other thing is uh to question, to question, okay, this is what I'm being told, but uh is there truth in this? And this is something I always tell my students don't just take what I tell you to be gospel, question it, follow that trail of thought, you know, get into those different rabbit holes of finding out she said this, but where is this coming from? Um, help me understand why it is this way. Don't just take something that you're fed as the whole truth. And it's not to say that it isn't truth, but I want you to be um a critical thinker and not just a mass consumer of everything that you're being fed. And the reason why it is so important to be a critical thinker is because when you're then faced in a uh with a situation where you need to back yourself, where you need to put an argument across, you have something to stand on because you have not just been told something and taken it as gospel, but you've taken some time to really dig and understand and form an opinion that is based on fact and not just something that you heard somebody say. It is actually based on work that you've then gone and done for yourself and you found out for you for yourself. You become a critical thinker, and you're able to now have conversations with people, and you don't feel so flustered. You don't feel like, oh my gosh, I don't know what the answer is. Not that you will know the answer to everything, but you're more of a critical thinker, you know, just taking what you're told as gospel, your questioning, you're even pushing back, but not pushing back to um dispute, but you're pushing back so that you can actually begin to gain some understanding. And I believe those are the best students to have because they go on and do this work. It becomes lifelong work.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

I like narrowing this down to the importance of critical thinking capacity is just like if people take nothing else from this conversation today, just like please hear Annie when she says critical thinking is crucial. I think we would be living in a very different world today if everyone had critical thinking capacity. Um I mean, that wouldn't fix everything. There's deeply rooted systemic injustices, but it it would allow for very different types of conversations for different types of learning for coming together and challenging of um things that maybe feel outside of our control. And I, yeah, like don't what beautiful and brilliant advice. I feel like everyone should print it out and stick it on their wall. Don't take um Don't take something as gospel. Don't take something as um, okay, now I just need to repeat this. Understand the origin of it, ask more questions, um, figure out how it applies in your own life. So why is it relevant for you? But I also think something that we've talked about before, Annie, that really fits into this on your own podcast a couple years ago was questioning um, well, who was it built for? Like if somebody is not succeeding in a particular environment, rather than trying to fit that person into the environment itself. And I think that this is a beautiful place where your work straddles both sides of meeting people where they are so that they can change and grow, but also then challenging and acknowledging the systems around us that I'm gonna be abundantly blunt, were mostly built for old white men. Like they were built to maintain colonial capitalist white systems of power. So I think when we can start to bring that lens in, the questioning deepens in other ways as well of who was this built for? So um, yeah, you're nodding along. Tell me, what are you thinking as I say this?

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Um, we've taken on structures, we've taken on belief systems that were built by those who were in decision making capacity, but now as a business owner, you're in a decision-making capacity. You don't have to take on the systems or the beliefs that um have shaped perhaps the industry that you're in. You're an independent thinker. And so it's about looking at your programs, it's about looking at your offers and going like, who do I want to serve? Who do I have in mind when I'm building this? And when you look at it in the um in the context of when we cater for the list in society, we actually end up catering for everyone. So when you look at, for example, if I can use disability as an example for a moment, when you look at um, you know, going into shopping centers and you don't have to literally physically open a door, that doors are sliding open. And that means if you're using um, you know, if you're not able to walk in and you have a wheelchair, you you're able just to wheel yourself in. If if if you're um, you know, unable to park too far. There's a there's a parking spot that's right at the entrance. Um, if you can't go up the stairs, there's a ramp that you can just make your way up. And so making it accessible. So when you cater to the list in society, you end up catering for everybody because what happens to that mom who is pushing that pram, um, it may not have been built with her in mind, but it was built with the least, somebody who may not be able to um navigate the structure as it is. And so somebody has gone um and thought outside of the box and said, how can we make this accessible for those who might have um perhaps um needs that we ourselves don't have, but we still want them to come into this shopping center. We still want them to have access to the things that we are making available to everybody. When we do that, when we cater to the list in society, we end up catering to everybody else. Because when you have that injury, Stephanie, and you need to get to the supermarket and you're able to with a lot more ease because of how it's been built, you've catered for everybody. And so when you're when you're building your business and you're not thinking about the list in society in terms of those who are um those who identify as a global majority, and if you're wondering who's the global majority, these are people of color, black, indigenous, um, people of color, those are the global majority. And if you are not catering to them and their needs as you're putting together your your your business, then um they will get to a point where you can only cater for um a select few. And that in the process of doing that, it becomes unsustainable. And you end up not catering to people you could very well serve, but your business hasn't had that um opportunity to learn and build a system that caters to a wider um audience that you might be able to support. And so that is why having racially equitable business practices is just so key. It's it's key to how we do life, it's key to how we do business, it's key to just being human. Why? Because we don't all come in one shade, we don't all come, um, we come in different shapes and sizes. And so when we're able to cater to the masses, and that doesn't mean if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, but I need to niche down. Nishing down doesn't mean being racist. I'll just let that sink in. Nishing down does not mean you have to be racist. Nishing down means understanding the needs of the person that you serve, regardless of how they identify when it comes from a race perspective. And I can only speak to race. I know there are other identities, but I'm speaking to race right now. So when you're niching down and you're thinking of, I'm thinking of somebody who looks like me and who sounds like me, how about thinking of the problem that you're trying to solve and building a business that is racially equitable so that you can serve more, reach more, still being niched down. And going back and just going back to what I was saying in the beginning, you are the authority in your business. You're the authority, you're the decision maker. Don't let what has gone ahead of us or how systems have been built, that you come in and you keep reinforcing that. We need to critically question why? Why do we work from nine to five? Why do we only have um X amount of days of leave? Why aren't we catering for those who are menstruating and they can have menstrual leave? Why is it that we have to come to work even when our bodies are not built to do that as women? And so we've we we we have to begin to ask better questions. We have to begin to think critically and to cater to um the masses in the way that will be most beneficial to bring out the best in all of us.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Annie, thank you for that. Like I think the coming back to that cornerstone of critical thinking and the questioning, um, the full circle that you took us on there of starting from that place, giving some really tangible examples, broadening out to include things that we can all relate to, doors opening, ramps being in place. There's such tangible material examples of when we cater for those who specifically have those needs, all of us benefit. And I think speaking in particular about uh what workplace relations, um, rules, things that maybe feel untouchable, that we sometimes catch ourselves accidentally replicating because it's all we've known. Um I think that's such an important edge to discuss of where change is really possible. Um, and I know some of the folks listening might not have businesses, but please re-listen to that section and know that everything Annie just shared is applicable in other working environments. I think about my work in the community sector. And the thing that stands out to me and everything that you just shared is almost each of those, if we asked why it happens, why do we do it this way? Which is a beautiful why, in and of itself, is a great, if you get no other critical thinking question from this, why? One word is a great one. Um, but why do we work this way? Why do we um have these working hours? Why do we need to be in the office? Why do we have this policy? And the only answer that comes is because this is how we've always done it. It's a really big red flag that it's not actually serving the people it's meant to. It's not actually inclusive. It is um change is hard for people. This is why Annie has talked about her approach of bringing people along. But I think if you ask why, and the answer in almost any environment is because this is just how we've done it, or this is just how it's done, it's a it's a sign to me, and Annie's nodding, that um deeper digging and advocacy is likely necessary. And curiosity and speaking to the people who you're trying to include rather than assuming what they need, um, is also a really important option. And I think that that's why Annie's work becomes so important, is for me, as uh I've said it a few times and I'm gonna keep acknowledging it because it's important to acknowledge. As a white woman, I can sit over here at my desk and be like, oh, well, I want to make a scholarship to make sure black people can participate in my programs. And if I just do that all on my own, the reality is that I could accidentally, of course it wouldn't be intentional, but reinforce more harm than good. I could perpetuate certain stereotypes, I could write it in a way that is discriminatory. This is not to freak people out, but it's more to just say, go to someone like Annie and ask for help.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Yeah. And I think that is such an important uh point that you make there, uh, Seth, because when we try to do things to, they're kind of like band-aid solutions, or they are uh virtue signaling, like, hey, I'm inclusive, I've got a scholarship, or this work environment is an equal employment um organization. What does equal employment organization mean? Equal in um who's in executive leadership positions? Um, do we have that racial diversity? Um it's questioning if somebody does indeed come into your uh program to work with you, will they feel seen? Will they feel safe? Or will they come in and get to realize, okay, this person said that this was an inclusive space. But actually, in writing, it might be ticking a box, but in actuality, it is not inclusive at all. They say they are, but they don't know the first thing about being inclusive. So I think this is where we really need to be careful in saying, yeah, I've got a scholarship here, or equal employment opportunity. But people come in and they never rise above admin positions or um they come in, they do your program. It was a scholarship, but it was, it was just a discount. And they came in and did whatever program it is that you you have, but it really caters for a person at a certain level in life and who identifies in a certain way. And so there are barriers to success that you haven't addressed, that you yourself don't even know that they're barriers to success. And so if you haven't done the work of educating yourself, doing that whole why, but why, and kids will give you the but why until you're like, I don't know. I don't know. You raise a really good question here. I don't know. And I think I need to go and sit with this and actually get to the bottom of the why. Um, because if we're just building for the sake of building, be it in the workplace or from a business perspective, without getting to the root of the why, then we are just reinforcing those structures of exclusion and oppression without even realizing it and going like, well, uh, it's 2026, why are we still dealing with this? Because we never questioned in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

Yeah. We're still dealing with it because it's part of what shaped the way we live in the world right now. And I think it's um infuriatingly, but um maybe more transparently becoming more and more obvious in the world that we live in right now. I I feel anyway, and you're nodding, okay. Um that uh the systems and structures that dominate um what I like to think of as our late-stage capitalist world, late in the in the hopeful tone that there is capitalism isn't inevitable, that these systems of oppression and exploitation aren't natural. They're all created to hold power in the hands of the few. But I think as we see these um structures crumbling more and more violently, um, brutally, um, I think this work is as important, if not more important, than it's ever been, Annie. Um so you've given us some incredible pieces to hold here. And I think that critical thinking piece, again, I said it earlier, if there's nothing else people remember, it's just but asking why. And and and what you were just sharing um in your response there with the example of scholarships is like if you don't understand why, or you're not even seeing what the barriers are because you haven't done the work, how are you going to meet people where they are? And I know that that's a cornerstone of the work you do, and that is what you hope to support others to do is to meet people where they are so that no matter who we are, we are able to succeed and we are able to progress and we are able to be part of building a better world for everyone. Absolutely. Yeah. Given the moment we're in, um, is there anything? Look, I know these questions are always tough because it's like, what is one thing? But one thing is commit to the lifetime of work. But um is there one thing that you really would love people to know or something that feels particularly urgent in this moment um to highlight, to remind folks of, to call them into?

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Um you know, we're living in really interesting times. And I think just that phrase, even if we played it like four years ago, it would still resonate. And I don't know how that phrase will sound, you know, four years from now. But we're living in really interesting times where we're seeing so much um cruel leadership, lack of care, lack of accountability, uh the hand in power, and people just watch. And I think this is such an important time to be a part of living in this moment when we decide what kind of communities we want to be a part of, what kind of spaces we want to be a part of. And a lot of times people are waiting and hoping that there'll be some kind of savior who comes to save us. But to quote, and I don't know who coined this, but we're the ones we've been waiting for. It's in us we have we hold so much influence, and even though you're listening to this and you're like, What do you mean I hold so much influence? Yes, you do. Whether you belong to a boardroom table or a dinner table, you have influence, influence with raising the next generation, influence with loved ones around your dinner table, influence within the space that you have in your workplace or in your business, your coaching table. If you're a coach and you're listening to this, you have influence. And so don't look around and say, Where are my people? Create your own people with the voice that you've been given and standing up for what you believe in. And I believe one conversation at Stephanie's place, at my place, and at your place, dear listener, and the next person's and the next person. That is how you begin to shake things up, and you have a movement of people who believe in a better future. It starts with us. We're the ones we've been waiting for.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Okay, I'm gonna listen back to that again and again and again. That's just such a beautiful, potent call to action and reminder that we are so much more powerful than anyone in positions of power wants us to believe. And that only amplifies when we come together with others.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

100%. And don't forget, those people who are in power needed masses, they needed the you and me and everybody else to get them there. So don't forget that your voice has so much power in it. How are you gonna use it?

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Thank you, Annie. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for the hope that you bring this work. I think there is obviously a heaviness in moving through the world today, but knowing that folks like you are out there doing the work you're doing in the world, calling us in, supporting us all to um move forward in a way we can be proud of, that we can um continue to influence those around us and call them in as well, the ripples of change and all of it. Um it's a privilege as always to have had this time with you. And um I thank you so so much.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Thanks for having me, Stephanie.