Love Survives Grief
Let me introduce you to our new podcast;
Welcome to Love Survives Grief.
We’re so glad you’re here.
This podcast was born from grief and out of the kind of pain that changes you forever—the kind of loss that leaves a quiet, lasting ache in the background of your life. Grief didn’t just enter our story—it rewrote it.
Before everything changed, we were living what felt like the American dream—building a life, raising our family, and planning for a future we thought we could count on. In a moment, everything we knew—everything we believed our life would be—was gone. The life we had carefully built no longer existed in the same way. Since then, we’ve had to rewrite our story completely.
We’re not therapists, and we don’t have all the answers. We’re just two people learning, day by day, how to survive the unimaginable. We will share our own lived experience—raw, unfiltered, and ongoing. We know what it feels like to wake up in a reality you never chose, to carry love for someone who is no longer physically here, and to figure out how to keep going anyway.
Love Survives Grief isn’t about “getting over it” or tying things up in a neat, hopeful bow. It’s about what it really looks like to live after loss—the messy, complicated, heartbreaking, and sometimes even beautiful reality of carrying grief while continuing forward and finding ways to survive the unimaginable.
Here, we’ll talk openly about our journey. The heartbreak, the memories, the anger, the love, and even moments of unexpected light. We’ll talk about what helps, what doesn’t, and what grief really looks like behind closed doors.
Our hope is that if you’re walking a similar path, if you have lost someone you love, we want you to know-you’re not alone. Because if there’s one thing we’ve learned, it’s this:
Love doesn’t end when someone dies. It changes, it stretches, it aches—it becomes something different—but it survives.
And somehow, through all of it, so do we.
Thank you for being here with us.
Love Survives Grief
Episode 5: Living Without Answers
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After Kash's death, it felt like the world kept moving while ours stood completely still. In this episode of Love Survives Grief, we talk about waiting for answers that never came, living with the unanswered questions of SUIDS, and slowly learning what it means to navigate a new normal without the resolution we desperately wanted.
Hi, welcome back to Love Survive Grief. I'm Sean.
SPEAKER_02And I'm Stephanie.
SPEAKER_01Today we're gonna talk about when the dust settles and the adrenaline is gone. How do you start to go on with everyday life?
SPEAKER_02Which I think is one of the harder parts of it. Because you know, I do think in society we do a really good job at showing up for people in the moment. Like you think back to, when I can go back to my dad's death, the very first time that I dealt with death, people were at the hospital almost instantly. It's that whole, like, how do people find out, right?
SPEAKER_01Like that we do at our house after cash.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, with cash. People were gathering. We talked about that. We had no idea people were there, but word had gotten out people were gathering. We do really good as a society showing up in the moment, being there. However, you have so many decisions that week that you have to make within a certain time. And then all of a sudden, you have this funeral, and that ends, and people leave. And you know, some of them, again, I go back to my dad's. I had family that was flying out that night. They were from the other side of the country and they were leaving literally hours after we buried him. They were like, Okay, we need someone to take us to the airport, we're out. So then what? Then all of a sudden, people who are grieving are left in this turmoil of wait, now what am I supposed to do? I think there is a lot to be said of checking in on people later. It's almost like give them the week. That's an idea. What if we could somehow figure out how to let families be that weak? Because I didn't need people that weak. I needed my sister, I needed you, you needed your parents.
SPEAKER_01Close inner circle.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, your select few, right? Whoever, whoever that is, in whatever situation, whoever you're grieving, whatever that circle looks like. But I didn't need the other people. And it almost put more pressure on me. We kind of talked about that a little bit, where we felt so awkward and so uncomfortable because these people were coming and they were sitting at our house and they were just sitting and they were looking. And people that we didn't even really know were coming because I think it made them feel better. And I do want to say I think their intention was well.
SPEAKER_01It's not like we're not grateful for that.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01It's just we didn't know how to deal with that and process it all.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and it's overwhelming in the moment. And I can remember times where I just wanted to escape from all of them, from my dad's, from caches, from your parents. Like, I just wanted to. In fact, I don't know if you remember at your dad's funeral. I did. Do you remember that? You guys took a group picture, and I I had to walk out. I was like, I can't. There's too many people, especially people you didn't know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So that was I could see how that was awkward for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And it's just like, let me back this up. And then two, it also every time you're going through grief, it's a different situation every time. But those emotions and those feelings from past ones come up every time, and they resurface every time. So even like at your dad's, it was, oh my goodness, I remember being in a church just like this for my dad's, and how you know, like it's all of those same things come flooding back to you.
SPEAKER_01Trauma. You're dealing with trauma and it resurfaces.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02So I think it'd be interesting if we could somehow, I mean, obviously, like I can change the world, right? But maybe. Um, have it to where that week you're with just your people. We don't need these outsiders. But then after the funeral, when that dust has settled, when all of a sudden there's no more decisions to be made, because you do like you're you're on autopilot that week.
SPEAKER_01Adrenaline, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And you have this checklist, right? Of everything you have to do, everything that has to get done. And so you're so focused on that, you're not really taking the time to stop and grieve. You're not really taking the time to accept anything. Because you're on this autopilot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, 100% shock. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I know for me, once that adrenaline crashed, I went to a deep depressive state where didn't you want to get out of bed at all?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01So that's where I feel like someone could have came in and maybe helped. Just I know one time, and I was grateful for this one instance where uh one of your friend's husbands, we just went on a walk. So more of that would have been great. It did happen once, and I wish it would have continued, but it didn't. Right. But yeah, more stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02And I do think it's important too, like, it doesn't have to be a grand thing, you know. We're not saying come and entertain me, come and take me somewhere. Come. We're not saying do that at all.
SPEAKER_01Just keep it simple. Right. Keep it simple.
SPEAKER_02Just come sit with me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Just come ask me questions about the person. Just come keep their memory alive. Just come be, you know. Like we we don't want the grand thing because that's almost a little a little fake. You you know that that's not sustainable in the long run.
SPEAKER_01So let's fast forward to something that I want a topic that I wanted to bring up with dealing with after the death and healing and stuff. We were wanting answers, and we never really got those answers, but it was a long wait for anything at all. And I'm talking about the medical examiner report, and that's something that you were on the phone with constantly, so I don't know firsthand what that experience was like.
SPEAKER_02Right. Well, and I will say, like, yeah, I watch a lot of Dateline, right? I watch a lot of true con tri Oh my goodness, true crime shows. They make it seem like you get these answers right away.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And boy, is that so wrong. And I and I think that goes with the whole you're left, this dust has settled from the funeral, and we're left, but we're left with no answers. No closure. Is there such a thing as closure and grief? You know, that's a hot take. I I don't know the right answer to that.
SPEAKER_01Depending on the situation, I think it's a yes and a no.
SPEAKER_02Right. It's a hot, you know, you could argue both ways, and I think depending on the day, you can argue both ways. Um, we with with all of the deaths with my dads we were left. What happened? He was doing so well and all of a sudden now he's gone. With cash, he had such a typical morning and now all of a sudden he's gone. With your dad, he was out looking at a car and now all of a sudden he's gone. With your mom, she had just talked to Lincoln, our son, on FaceTime and now she's gone. Like all of these, it's like, what is going on? You know, none of our experiences followed the typical, oh, they were really sick, so this is what happened, or like none of ours followed that by any stretch of the imagination. Um, and they were all sudden, very sudden, yeah. So, I mean, Cash's in particular took a very, very long time because he was a baby, and because they needed to figure out what happened. So after, you know, we have the funeral, people are going home, this is all these questions are emerging and what happened. And his took so long because he he was a baby, and I just wanted answers. I needed to know. Also, because I'm a mom and I have two other kids. So is this gonna happen to my other kids? Like all of these intrusive thoughts are suddenly taking over, and I can't sleep and I can't function, and you know, a lot of that is the grief cycle in general, but also having this huge unanswered question, nobody could answer. And so I just started every single Monday. I would call the Davis County Medical Examiner every Monday, and it got to the point, and you know, it was a very quick phone call. And a few weeks in, the because you know, it's like the her little secretary would answer. I didn't talk to the medical examiner until the very end. Um, but it got to the point where they they must have seen my number. I don't know. It was the same time, 10 a.m. Utah time. Well, what is that? Mountain time? 10 a.m. I would call every single Monday. I needed answers, and so it just became a part of me. And um the the secretary would answer, and it got to the point where she would just be like, Hi, Miss Liezer, which is funny because fun fact, at the time we were not married. But, you know, that is his last name. Sorry, Miss Liezer, we don't have any results. We'll let you know when we do. And and it got to the point where I didn't even have to say who I was, you know, in the very beginning, the first couple weeks. Hey, my name is Stephanie. I'm Cash's mom. I'm trying to figure out like what exactly, you know, where we're at, what happened, all of these things. No answer. Sorry, we don't have any answers. Sorry, we don't have any answers.
SPEAKER_01Give you an estimated time of when nope, there was no estimate.
SPEAKER_02She couldn't, she couldn't guarantee it. And also we were running against the holidays as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so, I mean, we had Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year. Like we had these three big holidays in a row. Um, you know, and not that their job ever really stops, but they, you know, get backlogged. And I understood that, but at the same time, I'm impatient. And I mean, I will own that I'm impatient in every situation. Um, but I needed these answers, and she you could tell she genuinely felt terrible that she didn't have them every time I would call. And I would say, okay, I'll call again next Monday. And I didn't call every day. I knew, like, okay, give him a few days.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I would every single time from, you know, the moment that he passed so that first Monday, um, which would have been the 25th before his funeral, I called. Like, we had his viewing. I need an answer. What is going on? Nothing. Um, again, in my mind, well, they pass away, they do this auto, they give you the results, you know. Like, yeah, it's so quick on TV. It's and that's all I've had to base it on. Like, my dad's was faster, was much faster, but he had been in the hospital, so they at least already were able to rule out some things because they had some answers.
SPEAKER_01And you were able to talk to a doctor, correct?
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah. I mean, I didn't.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but your family was.
SPEAKER_02Yes, they came.
SPEAKER_01And we there was no doctor.
SPEAKER_02No, there was there was no doctor. Um, yeah, and so you know, his my dad was a couple weeks, but nothing, nothing crazy, like maybe three. Nothing crazy.
SPEAKER_01Um, probably health history and age had a lot to do with why your dad came back so fast, which again worked against us with cash because health history, great, yeah, age, phenomenal.
SPEAKER_02Like, you know, every single thing. And then you get to the point where you're you're going through and you're saying, kind of like creating a scenario in your mind, at least I was, where it was like, well, maybe it was this, well, maybe it was that. Could it have been that like all of these wild things that I knew it wasn't, but it was at least giving me some kind of a hope. And so, anyways, you know, week after week we come up. Nope, sorry, Mrs. Liezer. Sorry, Mrs. Liezer, sorry, Mrs. Liezer. Okay, okay. So finally, I call again. It's a Monday. Hi, my name's uh yeah, hi, Mrs. Liezer. Please hold. I need to put the medical examiner on the line. What?
SPEAKER_01How many weeks was this?
SPEAKER_02This was 14 weeks later.
SPEAKER_0114 weeks later.
SPEAKER_0214 weeks of calling every single Monday, and every single Monday holding my breath like there would be an answer, and every single Monday having that letdown, and back at square one of there's no answers. And all of a sudden now she's saying, Hey, hold on, you need to talk to the medical examiner. And I and you weren't home, and I froze, and I was like, Well, this is new, she's never told me this before. Like, okay, okay, we're gonna get somewhere, we're going to get some answers. And, you know, the the medical examiner, I don't remember her name, comes on, and you know, she was very sweet, and she said, Mom, I need you to sit down. And I was like, Okay. And so, you know, I was like, I'm sitting, and she just starts talking about how beautiful of a baby he was, and you know, going into it, and I'm like, I know, I know, I know. And you know, we we looked at his capillaries, we looked at, you know, were there any um threads in his nose or in his mouth, there was nothing, which you know, uh now looking back, okay, she's telling me like there was no asphyxiation, like there was not which we already knew that though. We already knew his face wasn't covered. She talks, starts talking about how, you know, his face was perfectly shaped still, like there was no compression on it. Um, which again, looking back now, she's telling me like things I already knew, and I'm like, okay, but she's very sweet going through like um all of these different scenarios and everything. And she goes, Mom, it's all I can say is it's a it's like he let me say this again, mom, it's like he went to bed, saw an angel, and followed the angel. She's like, that's all I can tell you. And I was like, What? That that's no answer. That's no answer. And she stayed on the phone with me for a while, and I and I just remember saying, What? What that that doesn't make sense, that doesn't make sense, and she explained how they sent three different samples of every single thing. They tested every single thing three times, and the reason that it had taken so long is the last one she had sent out to Texas. Um somewhere in Texas, she had sent it, so they were waiting for that one to come back. Um, but every single one ruled every single possibility out. There was nothing. Nothing. And now I'm left feeling more hopeless somehow than I did these 13 other weeks that I was calling. Like, you're a professional, like what? And she did say she was like, trust me, nothing irritates a scientist more than not having a conclusion, than not knowing what's wrong. I can only imagine. Right. And you know, I'm just like, okay.
SPEAKER_01And so I hang up and I'm like Before you hang up though, did she ever give the the label of S-U-I-D-S?
SPEAKER_02Um, she did. She told me that it would that on his birth certificate, we would see an acronym that we probably didn't know. And I was like, okay, like what are you what are you talking about? And um, that's all she said. She didn't say the name. She just said on when you see his birth certificate, there will be an acronym that you probably don't know. Death certificate. What did I say?
SPEAKER_00Birth.
SPEAKER_02Oh, sorry.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Death certificate. Um, there will be an acronym that you probably don't know. And she did say, you know, here's my direct line, call with any questions, anything, anything like that. Um, and she was mailing us two copies of it and she was gonna overnight it because it had been so long. Like she was she was great. Um, and I was like, okay, but I didn't think anything of it. I mean, okay, she just told me that there's no reason. She just told me that my baby was taking a nap, saw an angel, and followed it. Like, okay, I'm I don't know, like I'm happy he didn't suffer, obviously. Like, I'm so happy he didn't suffer. But what the crap is that?
SPEAKER_01Like, yeah, that's no answers. Yeah, I know reason why a seven-month-old shouldn't that should happen.
SPEAKER_02Right. And I'm just like, and now I have to somehow make peace with that, with nothing, like, okay, and I just sat and I was like, I don't even know I don't even know what to do. I don't know what to think. I don't know anything. Like, again, I'm so so thankful that he did not suffer. There's zero part of me that is like, oh my goodness, like like I'm so thankful for that. But I also already kind of knew that part of it, like, so I just there was no answer, there was nothing, and I'm left with this, and I think so many parents are left with no answers, or so many kids, you know, and and I obviously that's our situation, but you think of people who um, you know, self-inflict harm on themselves, and there's no closure there for those families. There's no, I mean a plethora of questions, but no answers. You think of people who passed away at home, like you know, or like we can bring up your mom, like passed away at home by herself. Yeah, no idea why. We could say, well, she was, you know, a little bit unhealthy, she did have diabetes, so and age, too.
SPEAKER_01I think age definitely had age old.
SPEAKER_02She wasn't young, she was in her mid-sixties. That's not old. Like, but there's no answers, you know. And so it's like, how do we go forward from that? And it's learning to just figure out how to be okay with no answer. And so then we get this birth certificate. The birth certificate comes.
SPEAKER_00Oh my goodness, yeah. We started that over and how say how long too.
SPEAKER_02So then we get this death certificate 14 weeks later. It does come overnight. I mean, I get it by the end of that week. I get it like Wednesday. You know, this is a Monday, she tells me. We get it. I'm shaking as I'm opening it, and I'm looking through this, and one of the most I don't even have the right word for it, um, but just crazy moments is opening a death certificate and seeing your child's name on there. And you're like, this is real, like because part of that grief cycle is denial, and at that point, I'm still in denial, 100%. I'm mad, I'm very mad, yeah, which is part of it, and I'm very much so in denial. And now I have this paper in front of me that physical, tangible proof, yeah, that is saying your son is dead, yeah, you know, and I'm just like, oh my gosh. And so I'm looking through there and I'm kind of glancing over it, and I don't remember if you look at it with me the first time, did we? I think so. Um, and I'm I'm looking through it, and all of a sudden I see this acronym that she had mentioned, and I'm like, S-U-I-D-S. And I'm like, I don't know what that is. Like, it's not common, not common at all. And so I'm like, okay, I'm gonna have to look it up. And I should say, or we should say, it is unfortunately common, but it is what's not common is to have it on the death certificate. That is the part that's not common because typically they can go through their testing and they typically can narrow down exactly what it was.
SPEAKER_01So a physical key factor.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they can say it was asphyciation, they can say it was a brain abnormality, like they can usually go through and figure out exactly what it was. They couldn't for us. There was nothing. So S U I D S sudden, unexplained, or unexpected infant death syndrome. Something that has become a part of our story.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it is known as the umbrella term. What is more common is SIDS or SIDS, sudden infant death syndrome. Um, the difference there is the unexpected, unexplained. But no answers. Nothing, you know, and we just dove deep into researching this and figuring it out. And I knew about SIDs.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like, had you heard of SIDs?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I remember hearing stories of like maybe when I was a kid my parents had a coworker
SPEAKER_02Well and I'm sure your mom as a Nikki nurse.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, my mom was a nurse, Nikki nurse, so yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. You've heard the term. I've heard it, you know, very much so. I remember because I babysat when I was little, you know, I have a ton of siblings. I have nieces, nephews.
SPEAKER_01A lot of it was prevention, yeah. Especially being a new dad. When we were first with Lincoln, you would hear at like a doctor's appointment, prevention said prevention.
SPEAKER_02Back to sleep, back to sleep. All you know, safe sleep links. Don't put them in your bed. All of these things. Okay, check. We did that. Check. He always was on his back. Check he never slept in our bed. Check he didn't have at the time, you know, um unsafe bedding in there. Check he didn't have stuffed animals. And so, like, check, check, check, check, check. We did all of this. We checked every single box. But yet my son is dead. Like, you know, and I was just like, oh, this is so frustrating because we did every single thing right. And typically SIDS or SUIDS happens in babies that are less than four months old because they do flip to their stomach and they don't have the um abdomen strength, torso strength to neck strength. Yeah, well, neck to lift up, but to flip back over.
SPEAKER_00Correct.
SPEAKER_02Or to turn their head back to the side. So a lot of times it happens very unfortunately in these very little babies. Um, you know, they move and they get a blanket over their head, or they move and, you know, their head is up against something. All very traumatic, all very unexpected. All things that should not happen to babies. Um, but again, our child was seven months old. Ours could sit up. Ours could play peekaboo and move things, ours could flip and roll and do all the I mean, he was starting to get up on all fours to crawl. Again, ours shouldn't fall under this category. Yeah. But here we are.
SPEAKER_01Like, and so And from our experience, just the research that we've done, there is not enough research that can be done to give it answers.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01There really isn't, like, I feel like this is something that can this is a category that we've been put into that will infinit infinitively be unexplained.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. You know, and they they're trying. There was that article a few years ago, um, the other, but it's never in America.
SPEAKER_01It's all these other countries that are Europe is really huge on getting support for the parents and getting research done.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, yeah, in America just kind of lacks in that, but I think it has to go back to the uncomfortableness of, you know, in this situation of infant death. Like, I agree. But also, you think, you know, broaden that category because there is such a thing as sudden death in childhood. Like, you know, that infant, that I, um, turns into a C. It's in childhood. So it can't just happen for no apparent reason. And I'm like, this is mind-boggling. How are we not throwing all of these resources at this to figure it out? Like, I I don't understand. And or how are we not bringing awareness in the aspect of, okay, I understand back to sleep. I understand safe sleeping. They need to be in their own bassinet or crib. I I understand all those. And they do, you know, at the doctor's offices, they they do um have posters up. They don't really ever talk about it, but they have like the poster up, you know, while you're waiting, you can read it. But they never talk about how you can still do all of those things and you can still be thrown into this category.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, you said you made a comment, you know, that we don't do enough to try to figure it out. Is that is there something that can be figured out?
SPEAKER_02I think being unexplained and unexpected, it's well, I don't know if you remember, but she um talked about how they they kept his bedding um and they kept his clothing. We never got any of that back. Yeah. Um the clothing he wore, the bedding and stuff. And in fact, they even took, they tried looking for um the actual food container that he had eaten that day, but they ended up just getting the other one that was in the cabinet, same exact kind, just another one, because we had already taken the trash out. But they kept all these things so that they could run fiber tests and run all of these further tests so that maybe somewhere down the line they can connect caches to another story and say, hey, these fibers are the same fibers that were in this fitted crib sheet. Could it be well you know, so we never got any of that stuff back, we never would. Um, because they had to keep it for all this different testing. And so I guess there's a little solace in that, a little okay, like he hopefully one day can connect another story, but in the meantime, we're just left.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's been the hardest thing of my life to accept.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, you have the cycles of grief and the different stages, and this the acceptance is just not there.
SPEAKER_02Right. And it's it's so hard because there's no answer, there's no closure whatsoever. But I think too, I have friends that, you know, knew their child was going to not make it. Or I have friends, you know, like that got had children that were very sick and things like that. Um, or you know, you hear of people whose um parent was given three months to live, like so different things. Or you have like, I don't know, when I was younger, I used to always do this. Do you want to know when your last day on earth is? Like, you know, you like you you do that when you're a kid. Like, would you want to know? And I sit there now as somebody who has lived with not knowing when it's my child's last day, versus I look at my friends that knew it was going to happen, and I don't think either one of them is better.
SPEAKER_00Definitely.
SPEAKER_02They both equally suck.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02You know, I can sit there and say how thankful I am that he didn't suffer, and how heartbroken I am for my friends that had to watch their child suffer. Like, I can't imagine being them and every day holding your breath wondering, is today gonna be my child's last day? Like, you I don't want to wish that upon anyone, but I also don't want to watch wish this upon anyone. Like, you know, it just it it shouldn't happen. And it it did, obviously, here we are, it did happen to us, but I think unexplained death in general is just so hard to accept because there's a forever a question mark, and I will say this, and I kind of want your um perspective on this. I felt a lot of judgment, a lot of judgment when people found out that it was a S U I D S slash Sids. I felt like people, whether I made it up in my head, very well could have. I felt like people looked at me like I didn't know what I was doing. I felt like they started questioning my mothering. I felt like I was never I was never gonna be trusted with other people's kids. Like I just felt like all of this judgment all of a sudden.
SPEAKER_01I think from my perspective, it was a pressure that you put on yourself. You do that a lot with your in work. And I because I I never judged you for that. I don't know of anyone in our circle that has right, and I'm like that's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02Like, I whether or not I put that on myself, but like, did you feel like people looked at you differently?
SPEAKER_01No, but I didn't also have the big support group that you had. True.
SPEAKER_02So I feel like Did you look at yourself differently? Did you trust yourself differently?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, oh absolutely.
unknownYeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So maybe those external feelings that I was feeling about others you were feeling internally.
SPEAKER_01Correct.
SPEAKER_02Like, would you ever trust yourself?
SPEAKER_01That's something I've always done my entire life, yeah. Is to just internalize situations.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I'm a very external people pleaser.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And searching for approval.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and perfectionist and all these things, and suddenly I'm like, oh my goodness, but I did like, and that was so hard. And learning how to change my mindset, but I think because I think what we just said really hits it on the head. I think it was my own intrusive thoughts. Yeah, it was I didn't internalize it, I was externalizing it where you were internalizing it, but the same thing, you know. I questioned, like, would my siblings ever trust me with their babies? And I remember saying this a lot to you. Will our kids ever trust us to watch their kids?
SPEAKER_01Your grandkids.
SPEAKER_02And that one, that one took me out. Um I do remember that. I felt like they were never going to trust me with it, you know? And it's like, I I didn't do anything, I couldn't, but at the same time, like that's just it. I didn't do anything, I didn't save him, I didn't, you know, like so. It's that whole battle of of all of it, and those intrusive thoughts really can be the detriment of an individual going through grief, whether it's a child, a parent, a grandparent, however your inner voice views it and sees it, it can really be the detriment of you. And I think so many times that's why I'm huge on you know, I I can think of my classroom and my students changing your inner voice, make your inner voice positive, make your inner voice believe in yourself, and I'm huge on teaching like my students that and I think because I saw in our own family how having a negative inner voice really spun things out of control.
unknownCorrect.
SPEAKER_01We were this is along the same lines, but we were able to take advantage of a really amazing service through community hospice. Was that something that you were able to talk to your therapist with?
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, for a little bit. We did focus more on like my upbringing and why more so I felt the need to continue to please others and why. Um, but then again, we didn't get super far into it because everything shut down with COVID.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So we had two amazing resources that we were able to reach out to, but like Stephanie just Central Valley, so huge shout outs to them. Yeah, community hospice and Jessica's house. They were amazing. Yeah and I wish that we could have continued longer with those services, but like Stephanie said, COVID shut everything down. They were offering virtual stuff, but it just wasn't the same.
SPEAKER_02Right. I mean, is virtual ever the same?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, something that I experienced at Jessica's house was constantly comparing our story to other people's story, and there's so many different types of death with babies and children and stillborns and miscarriages. And you you constantly compare your story, and you want to say, you know, is mine worse, is theirs worse, but it it's there is no worse, it all sucks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I just remember sitting in the room with with you at Jessica's house, there would be all the parents would sit in one room, and the kids it was a house, it was an actual house, so we were like in the living room, and the kids would go off into smaller rooms and do art therapy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we talked about play therapy, Brendanly and I, when we talked together. Yeah, um, we we talked about the play therapy.
SPEAKER_01And so what did you take from some of those stories that we heard of other parents at Jessica's house?
SPEAKER_02That it sucks no matter what.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I think you hit it on the head. It sucks no matter what. And you know, I I would say this all the time and I'd victimize myself, and I would say, why does this have have to happen to me? And I've said it before on here where it was, God goodness, can some other family experience death now? Like, let my children breathe, let my family breathe, let somebody else, you know, and it's that whole victim mentality. And being at Jessica's house made me look at it like, well, why not me?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Why not me? You know, why why should I wish that upon somebody else? Why not me? I have a really good support system, I have really great older kids, I have a really great partner. Like, why not me? And so it allowed me to change that mentality.
SPEAKER_01Perspective, yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Just being able to And I sorry, I'm gonna cut you off for a second, and I think it was also eye-opening for me to realize that people who experienced a miscarriage are going through the same cycle and the same grief as us who had seven months with our baby. And I remember driving home because you know, it was like a 20-minute drive to it, and um talking about that several times because it would be every Monday. Um, several times talking about like, my goodness, like they never got any time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I felt like theirs was worse. Yeah, I would internalize it and think that what they went through was worse than what we because we had seven months with cash, they had no time at all.
SPEAKER_02And seven beautiful months, because there was the family that had a very ill child, and the whole time the child was in the hospital.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02And you know, being like, my good, so almost making me grateful that hey, I had seven beautiful months with him because he wasn't ill, because he was healthy, because all of these things, and my goodness, that person didn't get any time. My goodness, that person had a stillborn, and they had no idea until the minute that they were pushing their butt they had all of these dreams and hopes, and suddenly they had nothing. Yeah, you know, and it it really made you realize all of our stories are so different, but so connected.
SPEAKER_01We share one common terrible thing, yeah. Common fact factor, one common key factor. Yeah, and it is horrible, but yeah, I know you said it perfectly that we did have seven beautiful months of cash. It could have been any better, those seven months. Thank you guys for watching. Remember, we are on Facebook, Instagram, Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube. Go ahead and comment, send us a message. Give us your thoughts, questions. We'll do we plan on doing an episode where we just sit here and read your questions and answer them.
SPEAKER_02Nothing is off the table. We say it all all the time. We are open to talking through it, to answering. Our answer might be different than what you're thinking, um, but that's kind of the beauty in it.
SPEAKER_01So thank you.