The Longevity Hype: Science vs. Bollocks

In this episode, health expert DR Tom Mickelwright discusses proactive approaches to longevity, the importance of personalized health assessments, and practical strategies for optimizing well-being through diet, exercise, and stress management. 

In this in-depth interview, Dr. Tom shares insights on longevity, diet, supplements, mental health, and the realities of aging and health management. Discover practical advice, scientific perspectives, and personal stories that empower you to take control of your health journey.

Key Topics

• Proactive health assessments and their benefits
• The role of stress, sleep, and lifestyle in aging
• Evidence-based approaches to diet, exercise, and supplements Longevity and aging science
• Effective diets and supplements for health
• Epigenetics and lifestyle impact on genes

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome everybody to another episode of Business, Life and Other Bollocks. I'm your host, Mike Dunn. Now, today's guest for me is a pioneer in his industry. He's an award-winning health expert. He spent 13 years working with the NHS and he's recently set up his own healthcare, uh, own GP, probably Jack B, is that the one you used to say? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, he's an award-winning healthcare expert. And he's appeared on BBC One, he's appeared on Sky News. And uh when when you say he's a longevity doctor, I think a lot of people think he's like uh an Avenger. He's gonna help you live forever. So, ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to welcome Tom Mickelwright to the show. Tom, welcome. How are you feeling? I'm feeling pretty good, Mike. Thanks for having me. Nah, you are more than welcome. It's an absolute pleasure to have you on. When I told people that you were coming on the show, there was uh quite a bit of excitement, especially from the guys in the gym who obviously they're used to uh advising people on supplements to take and kind of where to go, etc., what to do. But I think what you do is is pretty extraordinary. So you hear the word longevity doctor. Can you just explain a little bit more about what what you're what you're actually looking to achieve with with what you've set up?

SPEAKER_04 1:09

Yeah, yeah, sure, Mike. So um, so I guess what I see as a as an NHS GP, I still practice as an NHS GP, is um a real reactive approach to healthcare. You know, we we wait till we're unwell and then we go to the GP and then they diagnose us and they give us some drugs. And that's the way healthcare's just been practiced for the last few hundred years. But there is increasing evidence that a lot of those big, those big ticket diseases that affect us, especially as we move into later life, you know, like heart disease, but also cancer, dementia, about two-thirds of them can be prevented if you intervene upstream. But we don't. So, I mean, a lot of people probably have had that experience when you kind of feel like, you know, some something's just not right, or I'm not too sure about things, or I want to get some advice about X, Y, or Z. Um, but then there's a sense of, but I don't want to bother the GP about it, or I don't bother bother the NHS for it. They're busy, you know, uh, you know, they've got limited time. So there's no real space for people to go and think, okay, I don't want to get unwell when I'm like, you know, in the next 10, 15 years. I want to make sure that as I get older, I'm still able to do all the things I love. I'm still able to travel, do sports, you know, have amazing relationships. Um, and there's no, there's nowhere for anywhere to go, any of any of those people to go. Um, I think that coupled with the fact that there's never been as much interest in looking after our health care as there is now, but also there's never been as much confusion as there is now.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Yeah, and this is a big thing because there are a lot of experts and there are a lot of supplements and there are a lot of get healthy quick schemes now. You know, in the last year, 18 months, Minjaro has become a big sticking point. Now, for me, I I don't care if you if you take it, if it's gonna make you feel better, but from a GP standpoint, you must look at that and because I know you you're all about data and metrics, aren't you? You are ready, you research that a lot before you you post, and I've seen that, and it's some really interesting information. So there are so many get healthy quick schemes now. When you when you see these, do you how do how does it make you feel as a GP?

SPEAKER_04 3:25

Well, it it I mean it makes me feel encouraged that people are taking their health seriously. So that's um that's great. You know, I don't ridicule patients for using Dr. Google, I think it's a good thing, but I I'm always trying to direct people towards the evidence. And and there's there's so much mistrust, I think, about um about doctors and healthcare professionals, probably still hangover from COVID and you know, people are unsure about the vaccinations. Um you're mentioning guys at the gym, you know, there was only a few weeks ago I was in the gym, in the sauna, actually, of the gym, and these guys were talking about healthcare. And whenever there's a situation like that, I usually just shut up and listen and think, okay, well, we'll see where this goes. Um, and they were um they were kind of saying, you know, oh, you know, I'd never take antidepressants, you know, I don't want to put put poisons in my body. And they were kind of talking, talking along these terms. And then they said, but what I would do is um is I'd take mushrooms and they were talking about, you know, I've seen this podcaster and this Instagram thing, and you know, Joe Rogan. Um, and I just kind of jumped in and said, Well, whoever's everyone loves fucking Joe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, Well, what makes you think what you makes you think they're safe? And they said, Well, you know, that they're natural. And I said, Well, some of the most natural drugs that we use are some of the most dangerous. You know, morphine is just taken from poppy seed. We've got drugs that's in your blood, they're taken from tree bark. A lot of the drugs we use are from natural sources, but they're far from safe if they're just kind of used without a doctor's supervision. So it's there's some, yeah, there's there's definitely this kind of mistrust of the profession, this kind of uh uh appreciation of a DIY approach to health. Um, and it's it's risky, but as well the information out there is generic. And I suppose what I want to do with my clinic is kind of say, look, there's yeah, there is a lot of information out there. There's a lot of stuff that you're not necessarily going to be able to talk to your own doctor about. But how do we make it personalized to you and to your biology so you know that you're doing the right stuff instead of spending your money, your time, or taking risks on uh on stuff that you don't know how it's going to interact your body?

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Because as a I was just looking here from something that someone said, you know, Tom, a lot of people feel completely fine, but they have this nagging anxiety and that something is brewing under the hood. Uh, you know, if someone feels healthy today, what about the non-negotiable metrics that they should be checking so they aren't blindsided in five years?

SPEAKER_04 5:41

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Um, a little bit of it depends on where you are in your in your life. So kind of your age. I'd give slightly different advice to somebody that was in their 30s versus someone that was in their 60s. But then generally, if we just play the numbers game, the biggest um the biggest thing that ages our bodies and kind of reduces your your lifespan, leads to disability later in life is heart disease. That's still the biggest issue um associated with aging. So I'd say um it's critical that you understand your what's happening with cholesterol and fat through your body. Really, really critical. And I mean, when you turn 40, everyone gets invited for a health check with their GP, you'll get your blood pressure checked, yeah, you know, a basic cholesterol test. Um that's kind of a bare minimum. So make sure you do that. But if you're able to, do pursue avenues for a deeper dive into your heart health. Right. Um, you know, uh, our clinic, Ever Health, we do a really detailed cholesterol assessment looking at things that aren't often tested in the NHS. So that's number one, I'd say definitely get to grips with what's happening with your cholesterol and your fat in your body. Um, I'd say, I'd say number two is um is start treating sleep like um uh like a critical business meeting. You know, you you wouldn't be late for something that was it was dead important through work, but we constantly shortchange ourselves with sleep by, you know, missing the time we're meant to be in sleep, by kind of thinking, oh, you know, I'll I'll watch this extra TV show, or you know, it doesn't really matter, I'll stay up a bit later or I'll get a bit earlier. But the evidence shows increasingly that disturbed sleep or poor quality sleep has a whole range of impacts on our body. Okay. Um so that's probably the second non-negotiable, probably the third one, which I don't think we're particularly good at talking about at all in British culture, is stress, chronic stress. Um, it accelerates, it's like rocket fuel to genetic aging. And unless we've got a better grip over stress, and I'm not just talking, you know, acute stress, that kind of, oh God, you know, my car won't start and now the train's late and I'm gonna be late for work and you know, and the kids aren't playing up, they're not ready for school. I'm not swinging that kind of in the moment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

I'm not being the wife, she'll hear that and she'll come up, you don't fucking get to school. Fucking line on a podcast. And when I do, fucking stress levels go from the city. Yeah, that's it, that's it.

SPEAKER_04 8:00

You're gonna get called out.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

She comes in the office in the morning and she, I'm like, you're all right, and she's just like, no, I'm fucking not. She's like, No, I'm fucking not. And I'm sat there and I've been in the gym and I've had a swim in the sun, and she's like, I'm glad you're fucking happy.

unknown 8:12

Because I'm fucking not.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

But I do, I know what you're mean. Sorry, I do know what you're meaning. Go on, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 8:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's that stress, which is which is bad. But then, but it's the chronic stress, which is really bad for our long-term health and aging.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

What chronic stress then? Break that down for me a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 8:26

So chronic stress is um um it's caused by multiple things. I would probably say um, I think imagine imagin mental illness. Okay, is probably the best, most obvious example of chronic stress. Yeah, so depression, anxiety. Well, those are other things that lead to chronic stress are um are a lack of lack of exposure to nature. So we we're not evolved to live in grey landscapes. And the evidence shows that when you do that for a long period of time, your markers of chronic stress just steadily go up.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

So, do you mean like built-up cities?

SPEAKER_04 8:57

Yeah, built-up cities. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And the cities aren't so bad as long as you can get out and see green space. That's really important. Um, the other big source of chronic stress is is loneliness, social isolation. So when we're around people we whose company we like, it just brings everything down, our cortisol hormones, it improves our heart rate variability. But um without that, if we're just living isolated lives, that really accelerates our aging too.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

That's really, really interesting. I mean, myself, I mean, I've always been open and honest. In fact, this morning I I did an interview with Men's Health about depression. Um look at me, men's health, because um, let's be honest, I ain't got the front cover model. But um, I did a I did an interview with them about because last year I spoke about this openly on the podcast. I had a really bad time. Uh September last year, I hit complete rock bottom, and I felt from I'd say August to September, I felt like I'd aged six months in that month because I genuinely I was tired. And obviously I I see with the gym every morning if I can, you know. But I felt genuinely so fatigued. So now I think of that, I'd I'd hate to know what that did in Italy. But in the same time, it some people are struggling with mental health and they just they really can't get out of it. But then I'd like to think if people hear that now, go for a walk. My brother Stu was on here recently and he said, Go for a walk. You know, we we live in a lovely area where we can go into the fields, you know, see the cows, but not everyone has that luxury. So I suppose what you're saying is, you know, that chronic that fatigue that you're feeling, it takes 10 minutes to just go and see something.

SPEAKER_04 10:33

Yeah, it's it's it's not normal. We we just kind of kid ourselves, don't we? The um, you know, those aches and pains, getting a bit tired, um, you know, struggling to bounce back quickly from the gym. We're just like, oh, it's just part of getting old. How often do you hear people say that's just I don't know if your phone's up in the field are you with a microphone?

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Interesting. So what I want to know is though with Ever Health, you're new, but you're you're making waves. You you were there recently, you were in the paper, and you um it's a great article. What are you doing differently then? Like I I'm really intrigued by this because I've read, I've seen your website, I've seen your videos, and they're they're fucking brilliant, mate. You're very much into facts and stats and things and researching. You spent 13 years as an NHS practitioner, and then you went to become a GP and then you set up a health, right? Yeah. That transition's quite big.

unknown 11:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

To go from the the UK's biggest uh health provider to being a GP but then to setting up a uh a really unique uh health health practitioner is like the way you use your own high private GP. But what are you doing differently to other practices? If someone from Chester was listening to this and I like me myself, I'm I'm one of them people I feel okay, but I'm always anxious and I'm worried that there could be something under the hood. And I think we say that because we would hate to hear the news that you've got heart disease or you've got this, because then you think, oh shit, I've now got to do something, but we'd rather know about it. You said before you wouldn't want to tell the 30 year old something from the 60-year-old. Sometimes I'd rather be 30 and know before I get to 60.

SPEAKER_04 12:06

100%. I think the one worst thing than being told, you know, whatever you've got, you've got a problem with your heart, you've got this, is being told if only we'd known about it sooner. If only we'd called it sooner.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Correct. There was a young lad recently, uh, I'm not gonna go intoo much detail. Yeah, he's he was complaining of a belly, and bless him, you know, he got very sick. Um, and I know it's affected his family, but that these are these are the sort of things that we we we take for granted, don't we?

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

So ever health, if I come to you, I'm 38 now, uh, you know, I've suffered with mental health, uh, I've suffered with issues in the past. Where would you start with me?

SPEAKER_04 12:39

Okay, Mike, maybe what's the the best way to articulate the difference is let me walk you through what we do step by step and how it's different. Okay. So um so you would you would come to me and the first difference you would notice is um is you'd get sent a kind of um a questionnaire, a form initially to capture as much information as we can before the consultation. But instead of it just being, you know, what are your medical problems, what drugs do you take? It's asking, um, give us a breakdown of everything you ate over the last three days.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 13:07

And um go through these scenarios, you know, A to C and grade them based on how stressful you found you found each of these scenarios. So it's really doing a deep dive into some of those lifestyle behaviors that influence health. Then um, then when you eventually come through and you see uh you see one of our doctors, instead of a 10-minute appointment like you have with the GP, um we spend about an hour with you initially. And that's um roughly split into a really detailed interview where we're asking about um about your goals, your stress, your relationships, your uh your diet, what you do for exercise, your job, all of that stuff. And then there's then there's an examination. But again, the difference between the examination, what you might get in an NHS GP, is we're also we're not just looking for disease, we're assessing performance. So we're looking at things like body composition, we're looking at things like cardiorespiratory fitness, we're looking at things like what's your cognitive performance, your kind of ability to recall tasks and think quickly through tasks. Because we're not trying to find just find disease. We're also trying to find um areas where we can enhance your health and optimize it. Um, then we kind of arrange for a blood test. Again, much more detailed than what you get at the general practice. I already mentioned the cholesterol panel, for instance. There are so many cholesterol bloods that aren't tested in the NHS that we're able to pick up privately. Um, and then when you come back for your follow-up, um, it's not just a here are your test results, you know, um exercise better any better. Um, we go through this detailed 20-page report with you, which is a full breakdown of your biology. So you're crits you're crystal clear on where am I now? Where is my health trajectory going over the next five to 10 years? And what are my easiest levers I can pull in order to get my health trajectory back on its perfect, perfect point. Um, it's that's the main difference. And then, you know, there's the option where, and we've got a few packages where if someone needs a bit of coaching or psychological support or nutritional support, we can kind of provide that. And then we use wearables and digital devices to supervise the data and track how people are performing over time, and then we'll bring you in, repeat some of your assessment to make sure we're we're nudging you in the right direction. But that's the difference. It's not just how are you doing right now, are you ill or not? It's how are you doing right now and where's your trajectory? Where's your where's your compass bearing right now? And how do we bring it back to north so that you know you might be fine feeling all right now, but we want to make sure that in 10 years' time you're still living this amazing life at the very peak of your physical condition.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Prevention is better than cure. It is, yeah. And now in the this day and age, with a lot of the, you know, like we said before, they get healthy quick schemes, which, like, yo, listen, I'm I'm in full agreement. If someone wants to find a way to get healthy, then good on them. Because not everyone wants to go to the gym every day. Yeah. So some people need to find a placebo. And I don't know if it's a long-term something they can do long term that's gonna last forever, but I think if someone's gonna get a kickstart from it, that's great. So going back to what you're saying there, what you're basically doing is you're you're giving a full MOT in a nutshell. And I think that's incredible. And what and what do you do? Like, do you you I've seen the questionnaires online, I've had a look over it, you invite them in, sit down, tell them, and then do you say look like like because if it's private healthcare, isn't it, uh for a better choice of words, do you then say it's like this amount of sessions is X, or is it is it kind of like well what what's your how does that work compared to a doctor's where you go in and they get 10 minutes, there's some pills bye bye half your pocket?

SPEAKER_04 16:42

Um well the way we the way we do it, we we kind of split it into two two platforms. So um so the first, if you come in and you have the assessment, kind of the assessment, the blood test, the follow-up, and then the report, we call that our clarity assessments. So that's about it's about clarity, it's about getting the insight about where am I now and and where where am I going to go if nothing changes and where can I get to if I make some changes? The second part is strategy, which is then kind of saying, okay, what what resources have we got? Have you already got a PT? Can we link in with your PT? Are you already using a smartwatch or something? Can we link it that into our dashboard? Um, and then kind of building a long-term relationship so we can monitor, monitor your health in real time over maybe six or twelve months. Because some people, it's not just about knowing where they are now, it's um it's knowing how do I get to where I need to be and making sure there's a bit of a wraparound team to help you get there.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Right, okay. That's uh that's interesting. So if if I'm listening to this and I'm from Chester now, well, if if I'm in fact, if you're listening to this and you're from Chester Northwest, I would honestly recommend doing the questionnaire. Because it's really it's interesting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 17:49

Yeah, and it's free, free to do. So um, so Mike's already mentioned kind of my Instagram and stuff and TikTok. I'm on TikTok as well. So you can follow that for videos where I regularly post on um kind of myth busting or reviewing supplements or kind of giving some some kind of health advice or my take on on what's in the media, but also there's a free longevity quiz that I've put on our website. Um, and you can just kind of take that to understand where your biggest health blind spot might be. So the thing that you're you might be missing that's most important about your health, and some practical things you can do to shift that.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Yeah, no, it is really interesting to see, and your videos are fantastic. So um, another question I've had is from someone who goes to the gym all the day, every day, and I find this one interesting energy burnout and daily performance. I go to the gym every day. Why do I feel exhausted all the time? Now, is it daily life? Is it a team? Is it byproduct? Is it workload stress? Do you think if someone's going to the gym every day and they're eating healthy, in your professional sort of experience, why would they be feeling tired all the time? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:54

Um, this is a really interesting one. And it's probably the commonest, the commonest thing that I see people in the clinic for is um is tiredness. They just can't get to the bottom of. So, firstly, if they're going to the gym every single day, one of the questions I've been thinking is, are they just frying their nervous system? You know, are they are they not giving themselves time to recover? Um, and heart rate variability, which you can sometimes track on your smartwatch, is a really good way to see whether you're in your system.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Just don't wear a smartwatch right when it's giving it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:20

I even touched my wrist then and I was like, oh no, shit, I threw that over there. It's a favorite nuts. Go on, Sally. Go on, yeah. Um, yeah, so are the are they overtraining? Is that the issue? Um, the other thing I would probably look at is um as I'll be looking at their nutrition throughout the day and in particular paying attention to is this is the diet likely to be leading to big glucose spikes, big sugar spikes in the blood? Because um you can be non, you can you don't have to have diabetes to still get big spikes and crashes in your blood sugar. Um, it's why, you know, typically if you think about having like a big carby lunch and then about 2 p.m. everyone you get that like post-lunch slump, but it's literally just because you've you've had that pattern, that huge spike in sugar, loads of insulin gets released, and then you kind of crash afterwards. But if someone's pattern throughout the day is just some you know, sugar or refined carbs, that can also lead to these big peaks and crashes. Um, I'd also be looking at sleep. So not just how much are you sleeping, but can we get a gauge for the quality of your sleep? That's where so much recovery happens. Yeah. Um, and then of course blood work, you know, we're checking for things like hormone imbalances, low testosterone, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

So so when you're talking about sleep there, obviously I've got two kids, I've got a one-year-old and a 10-year-old. Um now if I go back to where my first when my daughter was born, I was a lot younger. I was I was mid to late 20s, and I could handle a lack of sleep. My son's arrived 15 months later, he'll might wake up at one in the morning and everything aches. Everything. And I'm thinking, you know, so I and I and I'm I I get up and uh we give him a bottle and he normally goes back off, but then what I find is I'm awakening them for about 20 minutes to half an hour, and I ri I'm not a deep sleeper anyway. But I can tell the difference if that I've been if I've been woken up in the night to if I'm if I'm normal. Whereas 10 years ago, I'd notice it, I'd be off and I'd just be cracking on in my day. So I think did you find that parents with children, young children, suffer with this morning? And do you think that that has an ac an effect moving forward?

SPEAKER_04 21:25

The good news of the bad news, my hit me with it, dog. I think I think it does have an effect. Yeah, it does have an effect, but it's it it I don't think it can be avoided, you know. Kids will get up when they're when they get up, and you've gotta get up when they get up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um and I think it, I think it does have uh a deleterious effect on on your on your biology. But the good thing is I don't think it's I don't think it's irreversible. And I think what what it probably means in the conversation we don't have with with new parents so much is um is you need to try and mitigate it by maximizing your wellness in every Every other sphere because there's you know there's gonna be this bill over here that you can't control and you've just got to accept that that's gonna be really sucky for a few years, but there's other things you can do. So, you know, I'd say if you know you're gonna get poor sleep, it's not a good idea to also drink more alcohol or drink alcohol into the evenings because that means that the little sleep you get is gonna get even more aesthetic in the same way.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

I purposely don't have any big gin glasses of thought. People are gonna see me sat with a longevity doctor and you fucking hypocrite.

SPEAKER_04 22:30

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm stubbing at my cigarettes. Yeah, well, um, yeah, so so it's about you, you know you're gonna be really, really poor. You've just got to try and maximise what you are getting and try and maximise the other domains in your life where you have got them more control.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

And I'm intrigued by because diet's a big thing, isn't it? Diet, but there's lots of diets out there, and this was another question I got asked. So um and I should I be doing should I be fasting, queso, halo, and another one that I really, really this is gonna be an interesting part. What supplements should I be taking? Yeah, oh god, right.

SPEAKER_04 23:06

So they are they are meaty subjects. Okay, let's let's say the diet one.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

A lot of gin team.

SPEAKER_04 23:11

No, where's my gin? Okay, so on the on the diet present.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

There's a load of behind you there.

SPEAKER_04 23:18

Yeah, yeah, I get it. Yeah, um, so when it when it comes to diet, there's no uh there's no good evidence that one diet is better than the other. Um a lot of the evidence around fasting um comes from kind of ratworm studies that show that when people are really severe, when those animals are really severely fasted, um it can promote their the lifespan. But it's never been replicated in humans with who who naturally live longer, we're more complicated animals. So um so I think a lot of the hype around fasting is kind of overplayed. But in practical terms, where fasting is useful, is if I am eating for a narrower window of time, I am highly likely to consume less calories. Okay. And that's probably the main benefit, really, with fasting. Okay. I think I think a lot of the other stuff we hear, I'm not really sure that the evidence substantiates it. Um keto is I don't tend to advocate for keto. No. Um you might lose weight relatively fast, you might get a bit of a buzz from ketosis, but you're also flooding your system with uh a high amount of fats, and that has a whole load of other risks long term for your heart health. Um, I think paleo is a great idea, but I think paleo is complicated to implement, and probably a softer paleo version is something called the Mediterranean diet, which is very much uh you know, maximizing fruit and veg, avoiding red meat where you can, fish, beans, legumes, that's got the best evidence for it in terms of the health benefits.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Right. Well, it's five a day, right? Five a day. Five a day, calorie deficit, people do that. I mean, do you do you stick to do you eat a lot of fruit and bed yourself? Or is that a really fucking stupid question? What do you think? What's a fruit mic? Turn that camera off.

SPEAKER_04 25:08

No, I do. I I I do. I I think it's um it it it becomes easier when you just make it part of your life and you add it to everything. So I mean a standard breakfast for me is moosly, just shop pork moosly, and then I crumble in some walnuts, I throw in some blueberries, a dollop of Greek yogurt, um, and I'm already hitting, you know, some of my key polyphenols, you know, that those good chemicals that are in plants and fruits just from that. Um I think it's more about little swaps where you can easily sneak in a little vegetable here or a fruit here, rather than like a whole whole change in your diet.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

And and and is there certain fruits and veggies that you think everyone fucking raves on about it, but hit a load of all it. Right, and I because I uh I uh mixed, I I'm no fucking nutritionist, as I'm sure a lot of people watching will know. But I've always been brought up in fruit and veg is fantastic for you. Don't have a lot of fruit because it's full of sugar.

SPEAKER_04 26:04

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

That's what I was always taught was don't have five a day or have one apple and a banana and an orange, but veg, fill your boots. Yeah. But then I hear some veg is better than others, and I hear this veg does that. So I'm interested to know do you think that some of these fruits and veggies, you go, you told me more that but it's bollocks? And just be honest, man.

SPEAKER_03 26:25

No, I do think I think um I've always been skeptical about the cheer seeds craze.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

It sounds like a new RB artist, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 26:34

Yeah, the cheer seed.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Sounds like someone my dog would listen to a tiresome.

SPEAKER_04 26:41

So yeah, never been quite sure sure about that. Um, but also any any craze over a big fruit or wet or veg sends alarm bells because it's variety that's way more important. Yes. Um you know, have you heard of the gut microbiome, Mike?

SPEAKER_02 26:56

No, no.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

No, but so that's the gut microbiome is you might have heard of like good bacteria versus bad bacteria. Your gut microbiome is the collection of all the good bacteria in your gut. And it and there's they're so important for making sure we're absorbing not only absorbing the right nutrients from our food, but also defending our gut from any bugs that might otherwise get into our system. And some of those bacteria actually produce compounds that have beneficial effects for our body. So looking after those good bugs is really important. And what those good bugs like is variety. So if I've thought, you know, I'm gonna jump on the chia seed craze, I'm gonna eat nothing but chia seeds, or I'm gonna eat nothing but avocados, um, the gum microbiome is just gonna get bored of that. It's not gonna be as diverse and rich as if I'm eating lots of different fruits and vegetables.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

And and supplements, because this is a big thing, isn't it? And I'm really interested to get your intake on this, because I'm not a PT as everyone can tell. Right? And I'm not a doctor, as everyone can tell. But our brother's a PT. We go to the same gym, there's a lot of PTs in there, and there's always different conversations. There's uh recently it was announced that um certain proteins had lead. And it made and I don't want to upset anyone here, but I read that Huel was one of them. Now I I drink a lot of Huel because it's easy, it's on the go. And I think Stephen Barlett needs a little bit of praise at the moment because he's been through the mill, hasn't he, recently? I when I heard that three glasses of wine pink, which we're gonna touch on in a minute as well, because I'm really interested in that. Um but then it was introduced that certain proteins had uh had lead in leading found. The one supplement that we're told is the best is creatine. Do you take supplements yourself? Uh do you know?

SPEAKER_04 28:38

I used to I used to take creatine. Um I I don't anymore just because it um didn't kind of align with what my my body's goals were uh a few months ago. But um but I do think there's great merit to creatine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Um what's the what's the I need to ask this question. What is the research into creatine that makes it such a valuable part of working out a gym? Because I know people that take it every single day. And all I've ever been told is it's like a water retention, it blows you off.

SPEAKER_04 29:06

So it's it's more than water retention. So it it genuinely seems to help with muscle growth um and also with performance as well. So um so both bulking up your muscle and making it work a little bit harder. Um so there is some good evidence that that's the case. And I think the reason and I I actually think there's probably less benefit from a big you know weightlifter using it. I think I think they're gonna benefit from a performance perspective, but not necessarily from a health perspective. Where it becomes really useful, I think, is um, you know, maybe people of your parents' age might, kind of, you know, people kind of 50s, 60s, 70s, where muscle loss becomes a real issue. Um and we need muscle not just for strength, but you know, it soaks up excess blood sugar in our body. It's um it's a real good balancer in our system. And those are the people who I think can also benefit from creatine. So not just uh, yeah, you're kind of PTs in the gym, but I'd say uh some of your older, older people as well who are worried about losing muscle mass.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

And and with regards to sort of protein, do you uh do you take protein shakes or are you an actual egg, chicken, fish? What's your what's your take on protein?

SPEAKER_04 30:12

I do take protein shakes. Okay. Yeah. Um, and that's partly because of my fitness goals, because I'm trying to try and try and beef up. I'm a bit of a slight guy.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Anyone, is there any particular one that you'd recommend? Um well the one the one I use of mobile.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

Yeah, cool. Filter out the lead birds.

SPEAKER_04 30:30

I use um I'm using bulk at the moment just because they seemed um just a little bit more premium than what I was using before. Um, they've kind of added some bit of material. It's fantastic. But um, but that's not an endorsement because I haven't, you know, I haven't really done my market research in great detail.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

It wasn't a paid endorsement, guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just so you know, bulk can't pay for this. Unless they want to. Yeah. Hey, I mean, bulk of you listening, do you want to?

SPEAKER_03 30:54

Yeah, actually, if you want us to name drop a few supplements, yeah, just get into the name Tumble trial them.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Um but bulk's a good one. I've heard my protein is fantastic as well. Um, never taking it myself personally, but I've been told good things. But then I'm also told that protein is protein.

SPEAKER_04 31:13

Yeah. It is protein. Protein is protein. Um I mean you with lead. Some of you without lead. Some of your listeners might use um collagen, actually. That's like a big buzz.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

So this is something I am really interested in, because I know you have been I'm gonna draw about collagen. Yeah. I want you to tell me what your thoughts are on collagen, why, and and where you're going next with it. Because this you released a really, really interesting piece of information where you had clearly done your research into this. And I'm gonna touch on that as well. Collagen, shoot.

SPEAKER_04 31:52

Yeah. So um, so collagen, it's uh it's a it's a protein basically that sits inside of our skin. It helps our skin be plump and wrinkle-free. Um, and as we get older, we lose collagen in our skin, right? So it's it's one of the main reasons we, you know, we get we get wrinkled skin or kind of sallow skin. So there's a huge interest in um in kind of the aesthetic injury to how do we boost collagen in our skin? Um, and so it makes sense that them, you know, if you've got less collagen in your skin, why don't you just take more collagen and it'll end up in your skin? But it's it's that's not really how the biology works. If if I take a collagen tablet, um, it's gonna go down into my gut, it's gonna get broken down into its amino acids, gonna get absorbed into my bloodstream, go up into my skin, and then my skin cells have to rebuild the collagen. So in that way, it's no different from having any other protein source. It's just gonna get broken down into a part, shifted to our skin, and then our skin decides what to do about it. We can't guarantee that that collagen pill is just gonna go whoop and straight up to our skin. Um that's where we are at the moment in the industry. I think people are exploring, you know, um, is are there other ways we're getting collagen to the skin more effectively? And maybe we'll see a change there. But right now, it it's just protein.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

So is it a case of we still need to do more research into it? And if you say yes, is that going to upset people? Because I because I so I I read the Benjaro and there's people I know that are taking it, and please, guys, I'm not judging you for this. And I'm not judging people that take it in any in any sense because I'm proud of them for trying to better themselves. But the major apparently the the collagen falls from people when they're taking it because they're stopping eating, they're not taking as much food in. Is that is that is that a case, or is that just things that people have said to um do you know what?

SPEAKER_04 33:40

I don't I haven't seen the evidence, it's not the same as saying it doesn't exist. I haven't seen any evidence just showing that skin collagen reduces. I I imagine what people probably notice initially is when you're taking it, you lose a lot of fat, and a lot of the plumpness in our skin comes from fat. So you can look a little bit haunt if you lose fat too quickly. That's why I don't buy it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Keep the plump on too, mate. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

Um, but uh dragon dot now.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

So it's all about collagen and uh collagen and manjaro.

SPEAKER_04 34:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um, but there also stands the reason that if you if you're on the manjaro, but you're not you haven't kind of corrected your diet and you're not maximizing protein, then your body is gonna start recycling protein in the body, and that that may come from the skin. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

So, from an exercise point of view, I see you in the gym, um, you know, we're always there in the mornings, try to be. From an exercise point of view, we've touched on diets, we've touched on all these little bits, which we are gonna come back to as well. But what if someone comes to you and they're I'm not saying they are fat, but that we all got BMI, right? And it comes back and says road piece, and they say to you, What what exercise do I do? What would you recommend they start doing to start the process? And then how would you build on that? Because you know I PT, what would you recommend for that for exercise?

SPEAKER_04 35:00

Um, for exercise, what I would usually recommend is um is strength training first. That kind of confuses a lot of people. They they imagine that she's about kind of running on a treadmill for hours on end. But no, I recommend strength training because um the more you can build up lean muscle mass, the more your basal metabolic rate, so that's how much energy you burn when you're at rest, that level increases. So you will just you'll burn more calories just sitting around, the more muscle mass you have. Um, the second thing I often recommend is um is zone two cardio training. So zone two training is where you're you're exercising, but you're you're kind of operating kind of between um around about 60 to 70% of your maximum heart rate. Um, and there's evidence that when you operate at that level rather than flat out, you know, 100% of your max heart rate, um, your body shifts towards burning more fat for energy rather than burning sugar for energy. Um I think those are those are the main exercises that we'll probably recommend. But really, any exercise that burns calories, it becomes it's not quite as simple as what goes in has to be less than what goes out. You know, there are other complexities to it, or then, but generally the more you burn is just gonna help with that.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Yeah, I think it's a very good point about the strength training because my wife for years was all about cardio. I've done I've done an hour on the treadmill. Oh, I've done an hour with the tree. And I'd be like, right, and she'd be like I'm sick of this, and she'd lose interest in it. So she started using my brother's for a P uh for a PT for about 12 months, and the difference it made was just incredible. And I eat like today, we were in the gym together, and we haven't been for ages together. And you could see she was stronger, she was she was she was a bit more nimble, she was able to lift, you could see it in her confidence was up, and she says to me all the time, she's like, I can't believe how different I look compared to just running on a treble. Not you know yourself, you have to do some cardio, right? You have to get the heart going. But I found that weight training and lifting gives me such more of a better rush than than just running aimlessly. And I'm not, once again, I know there's people on here that are long distance runners, and I admire the shit out of them because I couldn't do it. But I do think that you get more of a thrill from weightlifting.

SPEAKER_04 37:12

Well, I mean, just to give you a story, Mike. About four months ago, one of my clients, um, a guy, a guy in his 30s, kind of came in, and part of the problem he was struggling with was just yo-yo dieting, you know, he just couldn't understand why he couldn't keep the weight off. And he thought there was, you know, is there something hormonal going on? Is there a problem with my metabolism? Um, and we kind of assessed him, and you know, there were some metabolic shifts there happening. So he was a bit insulin resistant, which means you tend to um produce a lot more insulin and you store more fat. Um, but the other thing is when we checked his body composition, really low levels of muscle, really low levels of lean muscles. What he was probably doing is every time he diet, it's because he wasn't exercising at the same time, he was losing fat, but he was losing muscle as well each time. And every time he lost muscle, that basal metabolic rate, that amount of energy he burns at rest would drop a little bit. And then when he starts eating again, eating normally again, he's burning even less energy than he was before because he's got less muscle. So the, you know, the weight would go back on and then he'd diet again and probably lose a little bit more muscle. And then when he starts eating normally again, it all piles on quickly because he's burning less energy when he's resting. And then he's just got into the cycle. So one of the things we've been um we've been doing is kind of changing his diet and making sure it's really high in uh really high in proteins for them, but also putting him through a strength training program with one of our PTs. Uh, and he's um and he's losing weight really successfully and it's staying off. So it yeah, that that muscle equation is really important.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

But he would never have known about this if he hadn't done this, taking the step forward to do a questionnaire to actually ask you a new break, putting a plan in place for him.

SPEAKER_04 38:46

Yeah, I think it was just carries on yo-yo dieting and then and then eventually kind of giving up on the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

And also, you know, you're a business owner yourself, so you you're probably getting into the habit of this, but myself, you kind of think, okay, the way I say it is this you want your revenue and your profit margins to be healthy, but why do you not want yourself to be in profit?

SPEAKER_04 39:07

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Why would you not want your own health to be in a profit margin? And people think that's fucking stupid. But here's the reality of it, right? You can be the most successful businessman in the world, but you can't take it with you. You can't do anything with it once it once you're gone. So there's no point in working your bollocks off for 16, 17 hours a day, maybe more, but being stressed, having all that stress whittle you down, and then there's nobody. So you know what you may as well do, you may as well listen to what the experts are saying, take your time, enjoy it, and and start putting so I'm the big thing is people put so much pressure on themselves. Because of social media, right? They they look at this shit on social media and go, I've got to be like that. Oh I've got to I've got to look at that person. I have to be that guy. Well, it all starts with what you're doing to actually take care of the inside, doesn't it? Yeah, it does, it does. Because you you can look the part, but you might not be happy. You can you can be on the big best diet in the world, you can be taking the most expensive supplements, you can have the best PT. But the real thing is you still might not be very happy. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does make sense. And that's why I say to people all the time, like I'm not a doctor, I'm not a PT, but I'm saying, well, if you want your you want your bank balance to be in the green, why would you not want your heart to be in the green?

SPEAKER_04 40:22

Like health is our most important asset. But we we we don't plan for it, we don't think about it, we just put our heads in the sand. But what's it all for if um if by the time we we retire or we've got that great holiday, we're too we're too sick to enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

What what's it all for? So uh a little story for you um and the listeners. About three three years ago, four years ago now maybe, we went to where did we go? We went to Greece we went to Greece, our first family holiday in years. And I spent a week chasing down invoices away from my family because we couldn't pay everyone because one of our clients at the time, and I know they'll be listening, decided that we're just not paying them. Because it was a bullshit the stress that caused for me and my family was like nothing I have ever fucking experienced. But after that I realized that I couldn't control it. So I spent a week distressing on a holiday. I didn't enjoy that holiday. I maybe enjoyed the last six days of it. But the effects that had on me mentally are still there now. Because I think what happens is in a mental state is is just if something bad happens to you mentally, your social scared is gonna happen again. You make up scenarios in your head, don't you?

SPEAKER_04 41:44

Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

And then you've got the mental aspect of it, which then affects the rest of it. Because then when you're mentally drained, the first thing you want to do is just slide down. But you can't do that, can you, all the time? So you want to go for a war, but can you be arsed? No. So the effects that had on me from that holiday were massive, and it still to this day haunts me now. And that's not a nice way to be, but I've also learned to talk about it. When you talk about that situation, you end up becoming a bit more resilient to it, right? Does that does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 42:12

Yeah, it's it totally makes sense, Mike. I recently got back from a trip to Japan and um an amazing country. But one of the things that really stood in stark contrast is in the UK, I think we've just started wearing productivity like a like a badge of success, you know, like we we measure a good day by oh god, you know, I've got so much done today, or I've had such a productive morning. Um, it's like a badge of honor. So it drives us to try and do more and more and more and squeeze more and more and more out of the day. Absolutely. Instead of just enjoying the gaps in between all that stuff throughout the day, and in Japan, they've you know, they they have nailed it, you know, everything from you know, the fact they blimmin drink matcha tea, which takes ages to blim and make. But the but the point is you you enjoy the gaps and you enjoy the slowing down because that's it's in it's in the gaps that you start you recognize you know what life's about and why you're doing it for.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

So I had this conversation with Jen, who was on here last time, and she Jen's fantastic. You know, she had a I'm sure she would have messed Jen had a really tough year last year, and we were talking about sort of like prioritizing stuff and knowing when to say no and setting boundaries. And I think as a business owner, that's one thing that you learn to do is say no and set boundaries, and I've been fucking guilty of it. When when we set the business up, I would drop everything for a call for my client. Everything, and it wasn't the best way to be. Now, when I come home from work, my laptop doesn't get looked at until later on, and only then if I can be asked, because I've realized that after five o'clock, there's not a lot I can do. Whereas all certain industries, and there'll be people listening to this going, that's not exactly true. Well, I've built a business, I've employed over 60 odd people in six years, they've had some really good highs, they've had some really big lows, right? And I've learned that sometimes you just can't deal with it now and then. Play with your kids, spend time with those. You know, you said before about being with those. That make you feel better. My kids do that, they I'm a wife. But my my my my they do that, they make me go, do you know what? What is the point in stressing over something that happened at 11 o'clock this morning? A prime example, once again, uh a couple of a couple of months ago a month ago, a client was used to come on board with us, okay, and the MD messaging saying, I'm not prepared to go ahead. And this was a massive order. And I was like, You fucking bastard, you've really done me over here. Ten minutes later, my wife goes up the stairs and her granddaughter's has a stroke everything changes in an instant because you stop, you learn to just say, Well, that is now not important, that is important, you know, and then that's what I have had to learn to do. And I think you learn to do that by eating right. You learn to do that by going to the gym and asking for advice. It's a it's it's all a part of learning, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the whole point of this podcast is for people to listen and find ways that are going to help them progress. Because you said before, stress is it's the biggest killer of them all, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 45:09

It is, it's the it drives everything. It it it drives so much across our body from you know our our heart to our hormone health to our fertility to our sleep to it really just yeah, wreck our bodies.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Well, you said about you before. I know people that struggled for for years to have children, change their diet, change the stress levels, they've got kids.

SPEAKER_04 45:31

Well, how often do you hear the instance about someone that's been trying to conceive they can't, and then uh they finally get accepted into a fertility clinic and then suddenly they conceive?

SPEAKER_00 45:39

It's like it's doing this that, oh god, you know, we've finally been referred, then then that relief is is all it's the only thing I don't understand is when Jeremy Carl used to be on the fucking TV, they'd be like a cracker there with ten kids. Fucking hang on a minute, how can he put how the fuck can he do that? Maybe I should become a cracker. And I and I don't know, and I also put out as well. I know that show ended terribly because of circumstances that happened, but it's the fucking truth. I used to think, well, John there, he's got nine kids with six different women who hasn't worked a day in his life, he's got no stress. Yes, he's got no that's what it is, he's got no fucking stress. I mean, he's just sat there knocking kids out. I've got no worries. Another 10 grand coming in next month. For fuck's sake, I'm in I'm in the wrong industry, I tell you. Um, but with regards to sort of like going back to that the supplements and and the diets, etc. Is there a is there a diet you would say, let's break this down. Is there a diet you'd say, yeah, you know what, that's that's a really good diet I would recommend. And is there a supplement that you would say take take collagen, right? Let's move out of the way. But is there other similarities, is there other products like collagen that you would say is very good for you? And is there a diet you would say really does work?

SPEAKER_04 46:49

Well, I think the diet one's easy. I would I I think everyone should be getting as close to a Mediterranean diet as as they can. There is there is no evidence.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Break that down for me. Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 46:58

Mediterranean, a Mediterranean diet is um is maximizing fruit and veg intake, but um, but there's a few other things as well. So it's when you're looking at your meat intake, it's trying to prioritize white over red meat, trying to exclude red meat altogether if you can. It's more fish in your diet. So trying to get two portions of fish in your diet a week. It's making sure that you every week you're consuming nuts, you're consuming legumes, so they're like beans, chickpeas. Um, it's making sure that there's olive oil regularly through your week. Um, and largely that is that is it. And if you go online, you can kind of find the recommended quantities of all those things. I think most people kind of think, oh, right, yeah, okay, fruit and veg, whatever. But the but no, I want to come back to fish, really important. It's the it's the oils in the fish to help increase our good cholesterol, which is like a mop-up, which mops up our bad cholesterol. It's the nuts also really high in that good cholesterol. It's um it's the legumes, high fiber source, really good for supporting that gut microbiome. Right. Um, and olive oil as well, which is good for boosting the good cholesterol in our blood. So there are a few specific things where most people I speak to, they'll say, Yeah, I take fruit and veg. And I'll say, Okay, well, when did you last have, you know, beans in your diet? Not just baked beans, but you know, beans, chickpeas, pulses, um, lentils, and there's kind of like, oh, yeah, okay, maybe it's been a while. And they'll say, Well, when did you last have fish? In the UK, we just don't have fish that regularly. It's just not a part of our mainstream diet. So some people they might be like, oh, well, you know, a few weeks ago, maybe I had tuna mayonnaise from the jackpotato. Um, and you're like, okay, okay, here are a few things where where we can make some improvements. Um yeah, so that's so that's the diet one. With the supplement one, it's trickier because um I think there are, I think there are some that I would say are interesting and worth individuals looking into themselves for them, but there's still uncertainty about what the right dosing is and also what the right thing is for the individual. And that's really important, Mike. Um, I don't think we can get generic about supplements and say everyone should be on this one because I think it some supplements will interact with medications people are on. Some supplements are particularly good if maybe you've got diabetes or cholesterol issues. But um, I would recommend your audience to to check out um NMN and NR. Those are two supplements that help increase NAD plus in the in the system. And I can talk about that in a bit if you want, but I've also done a video on my Instagram about why why NAD plus is so useful. Um, I would also suggest looking into spermidine as well, um, which seems to help with autophagy or the breakdown of kind of old cells that just get stuck inside of our body.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

These these things you're talking about here, these supplements, you get these from Holland and Barrett, or can you get them from anywhere?

SPEAKER_04 49:44

Yeah, so I mean, a lot of them you can get from kind of those kind of health nutrition stores. I think some of the pharmacies out there will will kind of source them. Um, I wouldn't order anything in from overseas. I would choose UK suppliers. Um, and I'd be really diligent when you're checking a supplier to make sure the supplier knows where it's come from, what quality checks have been done.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

Is there any countries you'd avoid without upsetting people? Not really.

SPEAKER_04 50:12

It's it's it's it's hard to it's hard to about where it's packaged. It's more it's more about where it's produced, Mike. So if you want to avoid the issue like with HUL, you know, where some, you know, there's a bit of lead accidentally slipped in, you need to make sure you take and the good thing about the UK is it's a really regulated space, you know. Um, nutritional supplements are are classed as food sources, and there are a whole host of regulations you need to follow for that. And making sure you read on the website, you know, what the quality checks this company's done, can they verify the quality? Do they test their supplements themselves to test the quality? I think those are really important questions to ask.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

I suppose as well, someone in your field, you have to be checking this. There's that. Whereas someone like me, I go on, I go look on Amazon and I see a four out of five star review and I think this looks all right. I look at the review and go, tastes good. I think, oh, fucking great. But really, there's more to it than that. Because I take I take protein, I take pre-workout, which we'll touch on in a minute, and then I also take creatine and a free. And I love shillagit as well. I take shillagit every single day. And I noticed from taking shillagit that changed my focus and the way I see everything. Shiloget, have you got an opinion on that?

SPEAKER_04 51:22

I'm afraid you don't, Mike. I'm gonna have to look into that one.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

Honestly. Shit, I'm taking a supplement you know nothing about. Yeah. Dr. Mike. Yeah, I haven't heard it was shilegit. What's it supposed to do? Like you make you a god. That's legit to me. Yeah, no, it's brilliant. So it's um there's different forms of it. So the bet I took it out of the office once and I put it in my coffee, and someone went, That smells like it's it smells like the monkey enclosure taste at Chester's. I just thought you absolutely prick. Like and it's fantastic, it's from mountains, it's a natural source, and I take it once, um, once in a morning, just a little tab. Um, or I sometimes take it in in like syrup form, but you feel a difference in it. And but then there are other people that go, shillers, it's crap. There is this you can take, and there is that you can take, and that's better than that. And I just think there's a constant argument over what you should be taking and what you shouldn't be taking.

SPEAKER_04 52:23

But the good thing is we've got this thing called the scientific method, which is really good. The good and the crap.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

We also have Dr. Tom.

SPEAKER_04 52:32

So what I would say is if you are fake, if you are that you're seeing something, don't just go off because somebody's told you, but um, try and find the research paper behind it. You know, how easy is that to find? So usually Google will be able to find things, Google Scholar. I suppose the hardest part is A, is it published somewhere legitimate? So if it's published in an independent journal, then that's uh that's a great start rather than something just hosted on the website of whoever produces the supplement. Um I think you you need to make sure that it's not biased. So um, so you usually will list who the researchers are and and who they work for, you know, if everyone works for the Shilajet, yeah. Yeah, if everyone works for the Shillujet company that's posted this research, then you might be a bit like, okay. Yeah, independent. Yeah, in independent. And then um, and then and and and and then looking at the um looking at the samples, you know, if if you look at something and it's like, right, you know, this research has looked at you know, a thousand patients and it's followed them up over ten years, and you know, they're a real mix of patients, fantastic. But a lot of research out there would be like, you know, they looked at 10 21-year-old men um who took it, uh, you know, and six weeks later they could run a little faster on the treadmill. And that's just not great evidence. Um, but I think we should all be getting into the habit of saying what's the evidence here, not just what did this guy tell me was a good thing to say.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

There was a guy on Netflix, I can't remember his name. He spends millions. Brian Johnson, is it selling? Yes. He spends millions and millions on every sort of hill. He goes to bed at like seven o'clock and he wakes up and his son started it as well. What was your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_04 54:17

So I think I actually think I actually quite like the guy. I think he's I think he's he's been really, really good at bringing this conversation to the fore, right? That aging isn't this inevitable thing we all, I mean, we all age, you know, in terms of our birthdays, but we don't all have to follow this inevitable decline that we think of with aging. You know, I I I have seen 90-year-olds walk through my door in the practice who, you know, they're taking one medication and they're traveling, they're uh, you know, they're they're dating multiple girlfriends, they're um, you know, they're cycling everywhere. They're honest, honestly, honestly, there's there's a guy I've got in mind right now. So there are some people who who can get to that age and they're like 20, 20 or 30 years younger. It's it's amazing. But when we think of aging, we always think of you know, maybe our grandparents, you know, back when healthcare wasn't so so good. And we think, oh God, you know, they just didn't have a great, great way of it. But that's not that doesn't have to be our destiny as long as we get ahead of it. So Brian Johnson's been really good at forcing that that issue and making us all just think about it.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

He's made it more of a public yeah, there were some points that he made. It's like he doesn't drink, he doesn't have certain coffees at the certain times, and he he he eats only certain meals. But then does that like the Silicon Valley way of looking at it, does it does that paint a false picture as to what longevity is?

SPEAKER_04 55:40

Yeah, it does. It makes you think that longevity is about, you know, infrared light masks and uh, you know, about hyper baracy. That's well, that's what it is, and actually, it actually isn't. Um, when I see people in my clinic, I kind of I kind of draw a pyramid, and I'm like, we are gonna get 90% of the gains by doing the bottom of the pyramid, which is by looking at your activity, your nutrition, your sleep, and your stress. That that will do 90% of your longevity. The last 10% is where we start looking at some um some novel and new medications that can help with aging and supplements. But there's no point, you know, there's just no point saying, you know, oh, you know, I'll charge you a thousand pounds for a hyperbaric oxygen chamber session um when someone's you know eating a burger every day and they're not exercising and they're sleeping three hours a night. Um you're just you're just trying to polish it.

SPEAKER_00 56:35

It defeats the fucking object of what they're trying to do, in it. Like, uh give me a grant if you can go in this chamber and here's a mask, and there we go. Yeah. But that that was my point about the majority of him before, though, is like I spent some laugh, but it was funny. My friend Ryan, who lives in Scotland, we met him and he'd been taking it. And he was like, it's great because I don't eat all day and I go home and I have a bag of twelve bites and I'm stuck. And I was like, for fuck's sake. But that's the that's where people are looking at this in the level of maybe I should be exercising on top of it as well.

SPEAKER_04 57:06

Yeah, and I think I think maybe that's the issue with looking at these things in isolation as well. I mean, that's that's why in the naturally I'd say this, but that's why I think like a clinic, uh, a clinic with a medical professional is the right way because you can just bring all these random strings of knowledge and insight together and form an actual cohesive plan instead of saying, you know, oh, well, you know, you know, whatever, jump with an ice bath on a Monday and then you know, go take Ashwagandha on a Wednesday. And it's just all this random stuff which doesn't add up to the strategy.

SPEAKER_00 57:37

What was your thoughts on ice baths? Because they were a big thing. Well, they still are, aren't they? But what's your thoughts on them?

SPEAKER_04 57:42

Um, I'm a fan. Yeah? Yeah. No, professionally I'm a fan. Personally, I hate the idea. So I don't have enough.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

Fucking love freezing my bollocks up. Yeah. My brother, my brother was doing it for ages, and he was doing really well there. And I've heard people say it's changed how they feel, how they look, how they there's loads of benefits to it. And I suppose like you go in the gym in the morning, you go in the sauna, and you you do it for 20 minutes and you have a cold shower, and then you go in again. And I reckon that 20, 30 minute gap when you're doing that, it really and I feel a difference in it. I I do feel a difference in the morning. I do think like, do I need all these supplements?

SPEAKER_04 58:18

A couple of my patients have prescribed ice baths to them, and it's made big differences. I mean, one gentleman like his brain fog cleared, he was sleeping better, and and that was because in his system, he just he's just an overloaded uh parasympathetic nervous system, and the ice bath really helped calm down and settle his nervous system. So I think I think they definitely do have a place.

SPEAKER_00 58:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:37

That's good.

SPEAKER_04 58:37

But just I haven't used them yet.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

What's your thoughts on pre-workout?

SPEAKER_04 58:43

I think it's good if you're an athlete, I think I would say. Um, I've used pre-workout before, and um it's like a sugar rush, isn't it? Have you used it, Mike? I use it every morning. Yeah, so I mean it's it's like loaded with caffeine, loaded with sugar.

SPEAKER_00 59:00

So you just you just buzz off it. And and this is maybe my problem is because that the sleep pattern at the moment is absolutely fucked with the little in waking us up. I take there's gonna be some people listen to this and go, you fucking don't need that. Because I might I've got ADHD and I might proud of the butt I take two scoops in the morning before the gym and I have probably one or two coffees, and then I don't have any more caffeine after that. So by about 1 pm, I'm almost detoxing, but it works. But because I'm up early anyway, I've only got about half four or five, two scoops in the morning before the gym, and it just sets me out. Yeah, but then I've heard like my wife had some before the gym one day and I shouldn't laugh, but the story kills me off, and she just fucking sat there shaking on the pen. She was like, I think I'm having a heart attack. And I've heard some people say I'll never touch it.

SPEAKER_04 59:51

Yeah, yeah. I've heard that people are just sort of like shaking over what's happened to me.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

And I sit there and think, I did my teletalk too scoops and they're exploding. It's like she's one maybe one coffee a week, girl, and I'm like, oh yeah, you're fucking fine, there's me. Uh but you know, I I I don't mind it, but then I I know it worries me because sometimes I get used to it and that panics me because I'm thinking shit, I'm now used to this highly caffeinated drink.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:17

Um I I'm I suppose I'm more interested in the effects it can have on your heart.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:21

Um, well, I mean, caffeine does, you know, it is a it can be a stimulant. Um I think it's different types of pre-workout, has different stuff. I think I think if you're going and you're exercise and you're burning through that sugar spike that you're creating, um, I think that's satisfactory. I think I think where I worry, and I have heard cases like this, is where people get such a buzz of it when they're at the gym that they start taking when they're not at the gym. And I worry about the effects of, you know, you get this surge in blood sugar, loads of caffeine, um, and and it's just sitting around in your system not being utilized. I think long term that's going to cause issues with your metabolism.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:58

I did I did it once before, went for around the golf. And I fucking I turned up and I was like, everyone was like, Are you okay? And I was like, I've had this fucking pre-workout. My cousin looked at me and he went, Mike, it's fucking half nine in the morning. He was like, right? That's nothing. And I was just running around the golf course. But when I got back in, I was like, Yeah, yeah. I got this image of you just like whacking the ball in your golf. It's fucking killing me now. I can't handle this. Uh I got asked the question to ask you. So I have ill I have illnesses in my family, both dementia and cancer. What do I do? And what's the best way to stay healthy long term? And I think it was well, they put underneath uh, I want to tackle the fear of DNA. Can Tom explain uh epigenetics, how lifestyle environment can turn from bad genes on or off, empowering I know, empower listeners to really take control. So a couple of people have said family have got dementia, um, family with cancer, can I avoid it? Is there ways to to avoid it or is it genetic? Yeah, okay. I think it's more of a putting people peace of mind a little bit, but also be honest.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:01

Yeah, yeah. Well, um there is there is good news here, Mike. So um when it comes to cancer, um, it's thought that about 40% of cancers are avoidable if you um if you address the right risk factors for the person. So if you address, if you address some of the things that commonly contribute towards cancer, um, and there are a whole host of them, some of them obvious things like smoking, some of them less obvious, like um like being overweight, um, then you can reduce cancer. And like I said, 40% is probably avoidable. Um, and for for dementia, it's a very similar story. About 45% of cases of dementia can probably be averted if you if you address those reversible risk factors early. Um there's there are a lot, yeah, I don't want to kind of just run through a whole list, but let's say some if I go through some of the less obvious ones. So um so for dementia, some of the less obvious ones are um are your mental health. So looking after your mental health, poor mental health and depression um seems to be a risk factor for dementia. And that's not to, you know, if you're sitting there and you know you struggle with your mental health, that's not to say, you know, you know, tough, tough luck. Um it's a it's about making sure that you get help early to try and improve your mental health as best as you can. Um, sight problems and hearing problems are also risk factors for dementia. Again, it's not about, it's not about being diagnosed, it's about having a problem that's not controlled. So if you've got relatives who, you know, you're constantly turning up the volume or being asked to repeat stuff and they're just not doing anything about them, really do insist that they go and get checked, maybe get a bit of a hearing aid, because both those things are risk factors for dementia. Um, loneliness is also a big contributor to dementia risk. Um, so it comes back to this the theory that social connection helps reduce our cortisol and our stress overall. Um, and if we don't do that, that seems to contribute towards dementia risk. Um, and then probably the other one that people are often surprised about with dementia is um is nutrition. Um dementia, our change, our thought has changed. We used to think dementia was just you get these sticky plaques that build up inside of the brain with age, but actually it's thought now that a lot of it is driven by inflammation. So irritation develops somewhere else in the body, it gets into our bloodstream, and some of that inflammation, that irritation gets up into the brain, and that leads to dementia. Um, and our gut, our gut microbiome, that good bacteria, they're one of our best defenses against inflammation in our body. If those good, healthy bacteria keep out the bad stuff from our guts, there's less chance of it getting into our system, getting into our bloodstream, and then irritating our whole body, including our brain. So having a really healthy diet that supports the gut microbiome also reduces dementia risk. Um, and it's a similar story with cancer. Inflammation or irritation seems to increase cancer risk. So anything we can do to reduce inflammation and exercise, healthy gut microbiome diet really helps drive down inflammation. Um, alcohol also is a contributor towards cancer. Um, we don't like talking about it because we like alcohol in this country, but it is a carcinogen.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

Yeah. Um would you say, sorry, just to cut you off, do you think we're one of the worst countries for alcohol consumption and abuse? Because we're portrayed like that, aren't we? Like we're going to America now in a few weeks' time at the World Cup. And they asked a lot of Americans today, what do you think of England? Do you love drinking? You love drinking. Do we portray ourselves in that way still?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:25

Yeah, I think we've we definitely got a reputation. We've definitely got a reputation. We are not we are not the worst for them, but we're far from the best.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

So we're I'm gonna ask uh I'm gonna ask a question that's gonna hit people quite hard. What about children who get cancer younger? What's why? And I know people are gonna hear this and they're gonna because some people don't have a chance and I'm I'm interested and I'm interested because I know people have been affected by it, but why does that happen?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

It's um in those instances it's it's genetics.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:08

It's not it's highly unlikely to be environmental but the the environment always plays a little part, but in those instances it unfortunately will be genetics. Um sometimes it's thought that um certain viruses might turn on or turn off certain cancer genes. Um so in in those cases, unfortunately, it probably is genetics. But I think in later life when you develop these illnesses, then the environment and the epigenetics you mentioned, which is the uh that's kind of how the environment interacts with your genes. It kind of leads to these small methyl groups, these chemical groups getting tagged onto your DNA to turn bits of genes on and off. Um, that becomes a much more significant driver of these long-term conditions.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:02

And that's a hard I know that's a hard question to answer, by the way, so thank you. But we have to address things, don't we? And I I think we don't address them, people aren't gonna know. That's that's a that's a reality of life, right? Yeah, um, and we can sit here and we can laugh and we can joke, but there's also a part of life and you know, getting sick and getting poorly that we we have to talk about. And I think people some people don't want to ask the questions, but this podcast is about asking the questions that aren't comfortable, but we we want people to have answers on that, that's all it is. So thank you for that, mate. I appreciate it. Because a lot of people have asked questions to ask you, and I think they've done it because maybe they're not getting the answers they need. And I think that's admirable to yourself as someone to say, I I would like to know about this. With regards to can I just jump in there, Mike?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:50

I think what one of the hardest bits to kind of come to terms with is that we're we're all just dealt a deck of hands in life, right? And you've probably heard the analogy, you know, it's it's it's not the hand, it's how you play it. Um I think I think that's so true with our health. It's it's hard when you feel like you've been dealt a poor hand, or maybe you've got a an illness that you've had since childhood, or uh, you know, you develop a disability a little earlier than your friends maybe do, or you know, you're told unfortunately you've got high blood pressure relatively young and you've got to start taking meds. Um and that's there's an element of that which is just just really bad luck. Um, and that's your hand. But you can still, you've still got so much control about how to play it. So I think what's critical is not to think, um, well, I hate this game and I'm not gonna think about it. It's saying, number one, okay, exactly what are the cards in my hand. So what do I need to know about exactly what my biology is doing right now? And then it's saying, okay, now how do I play? And that's where you know, getting the help of a doctor or a healthcare professional can help because we can say, you know, stop focusing over there. You don't need to worry about ice bats and ashwagandha. These are the most important levers. You need to play that hand to the very best of your ability to living the best life possible. Um, but the answer isn't to just fold the hand away, throw it under the table, and try not to think about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:08

And I I agree with that because um I've been to, you know, these last two years, I've unfortunately been to a couple of funerals for for people I knew younger than me, some the same age. Um, and there was one chap who I'm not gonna mention out respect for his family, but he he developed an illness in school and he did not stop. He didn't stop doing everything he ever wanted to. And so I agree with the hand and I always say that it's life is just a fucking game. Sometimes you roll a double, sometimes you roll a single, and you can't let the last roll affect the next one. Because you could roll three shit that rolls the dice, but you could roll a double, it changes your entire life. So my advice to anyone listening to this is look after yourself and diet, stay with people that keep you happy and do what is gonna make you and yours live happy. Just ignore the noise. I know we're going a bit deep, but we have to we have to address the elephant in the room of health, not just physical, but mental as well, because it's a big thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:22

Yeah, it is, it is and there's there's too many elements of it that we just that we ignore because it's too uncomfortable to kind of trace up to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:30

What's been um Okay, I'm gonna ask you something quite personal.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:36

What's been the hardest in not in your time being an NHS uh practitioner? What's been the hardest moment of your career?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:46

Oh gosh. This is getting heavy, Mike.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:49

Um If you don't feel comfortable then.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:51

No, no, no, no, that's okay that's okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:53

Um I think first of all say that it's been a huge privilege being a doctor, like amazing. You um you know the people have let me into uh areas of their lives that maybe their own family or their nearest and dearest haven't even seen. And they'll share stories with you, funny stories, hilarious stories, um, and also really, really sad stories. Um but I think definitely the hardest part most doctors struggle with is when they just can't help someone. Um probably the hardest part of my career was it was when back when I was doing hospital medicine, and I can remember there was someone who um she had uh chronic lung disease and she and she was kind of worsening on the ward and um and kind of her oxygen levels were dropping and the CO2 levels were kind of increasing. Um so we put her on an oxygen mask and then that didn't work. So we put her on something called a um uh CPAP masks or a mask that kind of puts pressurized oxygen into her lungs to try and prop up her lungs, um, and it just wasn't helping. And um and I realized that we had reached the limit of what we could do. Um and I could just remember her having this mask on, and she was she was aware at that point, she was aware, and she she was kind of looking around and I could see that she was frightened. Um and all we could do was just wait for this calm doctor level to rise until she kind of went sleepy and then and then passed away. Um but I'll never forget the I'll never forget the look on her face. It was really difficult to know to accept when when you can't do anything else with somebody until you got heavy.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:34

Yeah. Okay, fair play. Um that's I suppose there's gonna be dollars that hear what I say next. That's um part of the job that you have to accept.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:48

But it's not nice, is it? No, it's it's definitely not nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:52

Um yeah, there is it it's it is it's part part of the job. But you um I guess you lean into the lean into the bits that are lean into the bits that are better. Well the the positive stories, I suppose, even even when someone's got something which you know isn't great or can't be reversed, there are ways you can help them make peace with that, but they help ways you can help them rewrite their the narrative of their story so the disease doesn't become the defining point anymore, and all those leads to to some really great, great wins.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:25

Does that push you though to make sure you are doing everything in your power? Because you have to take a moment of uh pain and a moment that hits you like a steam train to make you want to do better for other people, don't you?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:39

Yeah, yeah, you do. And I think you've got to not not all doctors will agree with me, but maybe this is why I'm a GP rather than a you know surgeon, perhaps. Um I really want to be in the trenches with with you. If you're my patient, I'm not just going to kind of say, right, you know, here you go, whatever whatever, you know, eat better, exercise more, you know, you know, off you go. Um, I really want to be there with you. I want to have skin in the game. And that's what I'm really trying to do with this clinic. You know, you're trying to do that in a 10-minute appointment in your GP is just too tough. But um, when I'm seeing patients and I've got the time to dig deep into how they're living, understand where they're trying to get to, understand their worries. I want them all to know I've got skin in the game. Um, and I'm there with them. I'm not gonna let them drop, and we'll just we'll we'll go through this journey together.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:30

Do you think that moment is a moment that pushes you to do that? If there's ever a moment where you think like, fuck, you know, this is this is getting hard. Would you because I always use a moment of absolute despair as my energy. I always think back to September last year when when I hit rock bottom and I was suicidal, and I use that as my as my force. I use that as my I'm gonna fucking get through this and I don't I am gonna make sure that I find the answers. Do you find do you do you think that you're you'll always think back to that moment now and and go, I'm gonna whatever I do, I'm gonna remember that and it's gonna be my my spur. Yeah, I think I I think I do.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:11

I think I think back to that and I think I wanna I don't want my patients to feel that powerless again. Um I probably think more to my my family actually, especially, you know, I've got them, I'm very lucky I still have my grandparents, but they're they're very frail. Um and I think um I think what would I what would I want for them? You know, when they've had they've had good experiences, they've had bad. So I think what I what would I want for them? Um but also just I think when I remind myself what a privilege it is that somebody's shared their some of their deepest vulnerabilities um with me. And it's probably that sense of that, yeah, that sense of privilege and wow, you know, they've trusted me with this um with this remarkable gift, and I want to honour that. That's probably the thing really that drives me.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:57

I think there'll be a lot of people listening to this and they will want to speak to you about moments similar. But you're human, right? And I think you've got to carry a lot of weight with this. I think doctors, GPs, but they've got to carry a lot of weight in sometimes the messages that are delivered back to people who want answers. And I think that's what a lot of people are scared of of hearing an answer that they really don't want to hear. But if you if someone said to you, you've got I don't want to be too deep here, you've got two years left, two years left live. What if someone said that to me, I would make every fucking day count. And nothing else would matter. Nothing else would matter. I wouldn't give a shit about money, I wouldn't give a shit about anything like that because I'd have so much time. And that's sometimes we need to know. I would rather know an answer so I know I've got what I've got to play with. Some people don't because they're it's not ignorance, it's it's almost a bliss.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:54

So listen, kudos to you, mate, because that is a hell of a an experience. And I can imagine there being other people listening to this and going, I've been there. And if you have, come forward and talk because it's a safe space. You haven't got to feel worried about anything.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:08

I think that that's it. That's such an important message. You this, yeah, it's scary and it's hard, you know, feeling like you're opening yourself up to all that vulnerability. And you know, if whatever you're whether you it's you're worried about your family history or your diet's not so good, or you know, maybe you've you've struggled with an addiction in the past and stuff, and you're carrying around some of that as shame, for them, it's not talking about it which creates so much of a problem. And if you can talk about it, and it doesn't have you know, I'll be honest, NHS GPs are bloody fantastic. The NHS is fantastic, so no doctor is going to judge you for coming and sharing a bit of vulnerability.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:47

Um, but the important thing is that you talk about it because if it's not out in the open, then we can't then we can't help you through that.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:52

I I I always refer to the story of two twin brothers. One grows up to be a multimillionaire, one grows up to be an alcoholic. And they get asked the same question, how did you turn out like this? And they both give the same answer. My dad was an alcoholic. Yeah, like that. So you need to make a decision as to which path you're going to take in life. But it's your decision. You can be dealt a shit hand and still play well, or you can be dealt a shit hand and still use a shit hand and keep it. You can make that decision.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:28

So I know we're getting pretty deep, but that's you might have heard of the stoic phrase, um, the obstacle is the way. Um, but it's um stoicism is like this this branch of philosophy that kind of arose from the from the Roman times. Um, and the obstacle is the way, is, is, is that really in a nutshell? It's an obstacle becomes your way, and you can either think, right, you know, yeah, no God, okay, there's a big boulder in my path, and I can't move it, so I'm just gonna have to give up and go back. Um, or you can use it as an opportunity to to grow, to learn something new, to motivate yourself to do something, to take a new path. You can see that boulder in the path, and you can think, okay, but this is a great, a great opportunity for me to see where that path goes, or or it's a great opportunity for me to see if I can rally up a few people and move this boulder finally, or whatever. But starting to view obstacles as is is the opportunity uh rather than it's um it's a barrier that I can't get past is a healthy way to live.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:22

I work in sales and I always say an objection is just an opportunity. And that sounds really cliche, but I do. If someone's saying, if someone's giving you a reason why they're not sure, that means they're interested. That's another that's the way I see it as well. One thing I've I know you go to the gym every morning or most mornings, I see you there. How do you what is self-care to you? Because it must be you must have moments of absolute fucking like heartache almost. Regularly. I can imagine that's one of many, right? How would what is self-care to you?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:54

Um, well, I um I'm a bit I'm a bit of an introvert, which doesn't mean I don't like people because obviously I chose the wrong job if that's the case.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:06

No, I'm sorry, I don't want to fucking see you right now. No, I'm not fucking, I don't care. I'm chillish. Listen to that podcast of another person. I don't want to everyone who comes in like, have you not listened to business life another bollocks? Just listen to that. I'm fucking giving you my art. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:25

So yeah, so I like so I recharge with my own time, my own like time on my own. So I've got a few different ways I do that. So the gym um is is great, and that there's a few people there that I know and I can say hi, but largely I'm just in my own headspace. Um, I love using the the solar and the steam room. Again, it's just a chance for me to kind of get lost in my own thoughts. So I've just got a few uh self-care practices. I guess I've just got to know myself pretty well over the years, and I know what I know what helps reset me when I start getting a little bit angsty.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:54

And about you do a bit of reading, walking, sports.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:57

So um, so yep, so so love reading, um, a mix of fiction and non-fiction. Um, I love the outdoors. Um, I said uh it I found out the science of spending more time outdoors and the benefits a long time after I'd realised it myself. Um, if I do not go for a long walk or a hike out in North Wales for like a month or six weeks, I just I feel it, I feel it all the way through my being. So um so that's a big strategy for me. If I'm feeling stretched, just get out, drive to you know, Moth Fama near that's nearest or Delamage.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:29

Man and grandmother used to live in Riffin. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so we used to spend a lot of time in Riffin, Wales, but me, me and the wife, we love it. There's some some gorgeous places in North Wales.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:37

This is great. Yeah, yeah. We take it for granted, really.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:40

It's 10 minutes down the road. I mean, where we live, you know, it um I mean my mother-in-call, my mother-in-law calls this place Poison because it's right near the shell. But we you know, but but it's we've got some lovely areas to go and walk around here. So yeah, what any books you're reading at the moment that you or any books you've read recently that have really stood out?

SPEAKER_04 1:21:57

Um let's see, we'll be we've been reading recently. Um well actually I mentioned about that book uh about that phrase, the obstacle is the way. There is actually a book called The Obstacle is the way by Ryan, I think it's Ryan Holliday, um, where it talks a little bit about stoic philosophy. And stoicism is all about um, I suppose it's it's an approach to um dealing with challenges and negative thought processes. It's just very, very pragmatic. So um so I thought that was a really, really useful book that I read. Um, it's probably uh it's a bit off the cuff. Um, one of my favorite books of all time is Call The Alchemist by Pollo Coelho.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:38

I've seen this before. I've not read it, but I I've I've seen it like a couple of it's a couple of people's go-to books. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:43

And it's a bit of, you know, I I guess if you you know, if if you're really kind of into your action or your sci-fi or something, it might feel a little bit woo-woo. Um, but I I really like it because it it solidifies to me this idea that things happen for a reason. And um, I don't know, I f I find that I find that comforting actually. I'm not a religious person, but I probably describe myself as a spiritual person.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:06

Um I think that's good because I'm I've learned that if it's bad, it's meant to happen, and if it's good, it's meant to happen. Yeah. You know, we had three great years in our business of of flying, and then we had one really fucking bad year, it nearly sent me under. But guess what? I learned more from the bad moments than I did than the best ones.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:24

Because you learn if everything's good, right, then you're never gonna know how to handle a bad situation. And I said this on the last podcast that people like Cristiano Ronaldo, they've lost more finals than they've won. They became the best by failing. You have to fail, you have to fail in your diet, you have to fail in your workouts, like your form. The first time you lift the weight, not perfect, is it? No, no, first time you try a diet, you don't get it right. It's it's just part of life. So, yeah, there's a couple of really good books. If you ever want to read a book that's just there, and I've said this last time, How to Win Friends and Influence People by Adele Carnegie. That is my Bible. I take that every holiday, and I just read a couple of pages because I think it's such a genius book, and it's anyone listening, please read it because yes, okay, it's a bit oldy, but the it talks about why we do things.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:11

Yeah, yeah. Really, really, I really like that. Do you know what? There's another one that came out, I think similar time, called Um Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway by Susan Jeffers. Um really great book, and like every chapter, it's just got a small, a small kind of statement or quote. Um, but it's all around this principle of don't don't let fear get it in the way of doing that thing you really want to. Yeah. You know, don't don't wait until you're not afraid of anymore. Feel the fear and just make the jump anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:40

Well, there's this there's a phrase, and we used it last time. If nothing changes, nothing changes. Yeah. That's the simplest way to put it. I've got one more question, um, because I'm conscious of the time. This is from Will in the gym. All right. Big Will. Do you consider VO2 Max a good predictor of longevity? What are your thoughts? Oh no, I've already asked you that. Yeah, so do you consider VO2 Max a good predictor of longevity? Yes, I do. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:07

Nice and simple that.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:09

Thanks, Will.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:10

For those that don't know what VO2 Max is, VO2 Max, it's um it's a measure of how efficiently we're utilizing oxygen that we're breathing in. Okay. Um, but um, and you historically the way you had to assess it was you had to kind of run on a treadmill hooked up to a gas exchange. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And you know, you that stuff's not really available. But then there's a few different devices that can um that can create a really close estimate. So we use one in our clinic, um, which essentially uses some of the shockwave vibrations through the chest with each heartbeat, and that's been uh really successfully correlated to your VO2 max. Of course, where Thinkham smartwatch is a lot less accurate, but still gives you an idea about a trend. You know, is your VO2 max going up or is it going down with time? But there's there's really strong evidence that you can pretty much just draw a line on a graph. The the greater your VO2 max, the longer you'll live, the more independent you'll live as you get older.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:08

Okay, quick fire questions. What is the one supplement that you think is the biggest load of bollocks?

SPEAKER_04 1:26:15

Oh um, the biggest load of bollocks, CBD oil. CBD oil? Yeah. Oh controversial.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:24

Oh, they can do, but I think it's interesting, but can't very quickly why?

SPEAKER_04 1:26:28

Um because the research that's been done at CBD oil is for a very narrow range of conditions and uses strengths about a hundred times stronger than what you can purchase in over-the-counter CBD oil. So um so it's really, really weak. It tends to use the part of cannabis that um that doesn't seem to do a great deal. Um, it's the part of the plant that doesn't have any hallucinogenic effects. Um yeah, but it's but it's just marketed for everything, absolutely everything. Everything. If you're out there and you're taking CBD oil and you think, well, it's worse for me, I would say great.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:02

Um, I think that's possibly placebo, but yeah, um, I've heard a few people that I've heard a few people that work for it, but it's like the green towel theory. If we used to break your leg in primary school and the thing, there you go, it's a green towel. Just put that on the bone, it'll all be better. That's what people use fucking CBD for now. But I don't need CBD oil, probably arms CBD oil, it'll fucking work. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:21

Yeah, exactly. It's absolutely mad. I I think placebo effect though is a really powerful effect. Yeah. So um some of some of it, I mean, the placebo effect, it lowers your blood pressure, it can take away pain. So like if it's doing something for you, fine. But um, it's not something I'd recommend.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:36

What's your thoughts uh very quickly on people that have like facelifts and nip and talk? You know the the the Silicon Valley sort of because that's a big thing about longevity. Everyone thinks I'll get my face lifted, I'll get my tummy took, I get my boobs lifted, everything. What's your are you with that or do you not really have an opinion?

SPEAKER_04 1:27:54

If people want to do it, they want to do it. I'm I am not ever gonna judge people that do have cosmetic work done. them but it's just the it's just the outside so um so for me it's it's futile if you're aging really quickly on the inside um yeah you might you might look younger on the outside but a you're not you're not changing how your skin's aging in the long term so you might just need revision work after a few years but also you're not you're you know having a nip and tuck isn't necessarily going to make sure you're you're independent when you get older you've got energy you've still got a great sex life you can still think clearly it's not gonna solve those things so for me personally that stuff's yeah yeah more important in the long run okay biggest load of bollocks workout wise what workout would you say is a load of shite and this is just all right well I mean Will would probably agree with this I would say just any any strength training exercise where the whole body swings while you're doing it you know if you're thinking about kind of the curls and you know I've seen I've seen people with ridiculously heavy weights and the kind of swinging and the backs go backwards like a piece of Aragami just gonna snap something like that. There was a lad the other day doing it and he bless him he was fucking throwing out I'm not even gonna speak so yeah should I say something should I always it's funny because our Stu works in the gym everyone thinks we're everyone thinks I'm him excuse me where's that class I'm fucking done eh and then and then finally ever EverHealth is new you've been in the paper recently massive congratulations I think it's I think it's perfect what we need what are the plans for everhealth in the next like two to three years do you have a goal do you want to grow franchise it what's the plans yeah so um so I really want to grow I want to open up a few clinics um I want to be able to expand doing some remote stuff I think what we want to try and do to make this supplement market a lot easier is take away the pain and the and the complexity and just just host a store through Everhealth so we can do the quality checks I can I can say look I'm I'm happy to medically prescribe this um I think I'll take a lot of the headache away so there's a few different a few different verticals I want to kind of add into it but for now it's about growing our chester base um inviting people from across the northwest I've got some clients coming from London to try it out which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:04

Well I'd I'd like to come I'd like to come along so so is that something you're looking for is like preferred medical supplement providers or do you want to make your own supplements down the line?

SPEAKER_04 1:30:15

Well there's a couple of supplement providers I've been speaking to about whether you know you know I'll probably go down to their their plants so I can feel like I've inspected them myself. So I'm happy with their quality protocols and then um You've got to live and breathe it though haven't you? Yeah yeah have well if I'm if I'm putting my name and the reputation of the clinic against against something and then I find out it's got lead in it you know several years down the line um that that's not something I'm prepared to to risk with my patients.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:37

Well all I can say is don't have two glasses of wine because it wipes you off for three days of what was your thoughts on that statement um what about kind of wine and three days I don't know I think some people some some people it does generally generally do that. Some people just break down wine a lot differently there's you know evidence that you some of the some of the photos have been fucking brilliant though and I I have a lot of respect for Stephen Butler by the way I he he is like he knows how to market but I just thought shut up because that is you're talking me I could have maybe two or three glasses of bottles of wine and I'm I'm fine for days so but by the by so the so the plan is to grow take some more more GPs on in your practice is that right exactly bring it like bring on some new nurses um bring on some new GPs and then um and then kind of continue to grow it basically and where can we find you in Chester?

SPEAKER_04 1:31:30

Whereabouts are you based so we're based out of a building called the Grange Clinic okay um so we're ever the Ever Health Clinic within the Grange Clinic which is building and um it's uh it's in hall just before you cross the bridge to go into town it's there on your left. I know exactly where it's gorgeous really gorgeous building um we're very lucky to be there.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:49

Amazing stuff well I I just would personally like to say thank you for for joining us uh it's been such a fantastic episode um and hopefully we can get you back down the line and we can we can catch up whatever health and where it's gone and because I know there's gonna be a lot of people saying really we should have asked this question. Would you be happy to come back on again? Yeah I'd love to mike amazing stuff well Tom thank you very much and thank you for sharing such a deep story with us before really means a lot so that is um that is one hell of an episode um just to say if you've been affected by anything that I've mentioned in today or anything we spoke about please understand this is a conversation that we want to try and raise as much awareness as possible for not just the physical side of your health but for the mental side of your health um but also if you if you are affected or if you have concerns please drop Tom a message uh Tom what's what's the best place to what's the best way to contact you if people have questions after this um well I mean we're on um Instagram and TikTok so you can just kind of search everhealth underscore uk um as our handles or go to our website www.everhealthclinic.com and then there's an inquiries form there along with the quiz that I mentioned before. Yeah so yeah please um if you feel after watching this it's the right time to start taking control just to get some answers and not if even if you you know if you've got a PT we're not saying stop using them but I think what we're saying in this conversation is it is never the wrong time to see if you can get support and help. Is that right? Yeah yeah that's right well thank you again Tom guys thank you so much for joining us uh next up uh is Sophie Sophie Boove a friend of mine who's it based in recruitments uh she'll be joining us uh in the next couple of days so uh yeah thank you all thank you for joining us any questions feel free to drop me a message and you can follow us on business life and other bollocks cheers guys thank you