No Corporate Bollocks: Building a Business & Raising a Neurodivergent Son

In this episode, Sophie shares her inspiring journey of founding We Are Proper, disrupting traditional recruitment, and balancing her business with her role as a mother to a neurodiverse child. She discusses the importance of authenticity, ethics in recruitment, and the power of resilience and self-care.

key topics

• Disruption of traditional recruitment industry
• Importance of authenticity and ethics in business
• Balancing entrepreneurship with family life
• Impact of neurodiversity on personal and professional growth
• Strategies for self-care and mental health in business

Takeaways

• Authenticity and ethics are key to building trust in business
• Niche focus can lead to greater success and clarity
• Self-care is essential for sustainable leadership
• Disrupting industry norms requires courage and conviction
• Personal experiences with neurodiversity can inform compassionate leadership

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:04

Welcome everybody to another episode of Business, Life, and Other Bollocks. I'm your host, Mike Dunn. Today's guest is a co-founder of a two-woman powerhouse recruitment company called We Are Proper. She uh their business was established roughly two years ago, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 0:23

That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 0:23

Yeah. She's a mother to a little boy whose name is Bobby. Bobby, yeah. And she has done an incredible journey of setting this company up and in my eyes, disrupting a market which is very corporate, very numbers-driven, very male-driven as well. Um, so yeah, I'm really excited to have Sophie on the show. Sophie, welcome. How are you feeling?

SPEAKER_03 0:45

Yeah, fine, Mike. Thanks so much, Ariano.

SPEAKER_05 0:47

You're more than welcome. It's been brilliant to have you on board. Sophie, um, obviously I've mentioned a little bit there about who you are, what you do, but for those listening, just talk to us a little bit about what we are. Is it we are proper?

SPEAKER_03 0:57

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So it yeah, our company is we are proper. Um, we set up, as you say, just over two years ago. Um, and we didn't actually set up as We Are Proper. That's been a uh a recent rebrand.

SPEAKER_05 1:10

Um it was Booth and Hardy, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:12

It was Hardy Booth Recruitment, yeah. And it was Hardy Booth recruitment because we literally couldn't think of anything else. We're not very creative. So um we literally we'd cut and run from our last job, needed to start earning money quick. So it was literally a shit, let's just set something on the camera and go, go, go. Um we uh we never we didn't necessarily think the business would be a lifestyle business per se, um, but we were definitely at the point where in our lives we wanted a bit more of our balance. You know, we've both been in recruitment for about 12, 13 years each. Um, and it it is, and it has been typically that industry where it is, you know, 12, 13, 14 hour days, be a whip with a stick, targets, targets, targets. And that was great. Like that's how you cut your teeth. Yeah, I think in any industry, it teaches you discipline and you know, like credit to all previous companies where where it's been like that. But you know, it gets to a point where you're a bit older and you don't want to do that anymore. So we wanted to, you know, still work hard earn well, but certainly have some sort of balance. Um, however, as the business neared its first birthday, we were like, we've got so many plans. This is this is changing, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that. And then very, very quickly we realized actually this isn't a lifestyle business, this is something we are dead passionate of.

SPEAKER_05 2:32

Well, you set a company up for one or three reasons. Someone said to me, uh, it's comfort, yeah, because it's a comfortable thing to do, legacy and leave to your children, yeah, or to sell on.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:41

And you can't have all three. And a lot of people set a company up because they think, Oh, you know what, I can do this on my own. I was I'm the I'm probably the world's worst for it. Set it up thinking, I can do this. Yeah. I'll fucking work from my own. I'll work in my back bedroom, I'd be won't be a problem. And then you fast forward six years later and you go, holy shit, I have got more work coming at me than I can handle. But I wouldn't change that.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

No, God knows. And it's testament to what you do, isn't it? You know, people trusting you to do that work.

SPEAKER_05 3:09

Do you find with recruitment a bit like sales? Obviously, we specialise in lead generation and telemarketing, and you feel the anxiety of people when you say that on the phone, you go, Oh, I'm calling from the next level. Uh, we specialise in in telemarketing, and you kind of feel this fucking they think we're the ones calling them when they're watching the chase trying to sell insurance. And by the way, no problem to people that do that. Yeah, have done it before.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:30

But do you find with recruitment, if you're cold calling or canbassing, if you're like, do you get that as well?

SPEAKER_03 3:36

Absolutely, absolutely. You can literally feel someone shudder on the end of the phone. And when you meet someone in person, like at a networking doo, and you're like, Oh, hi, I'm Sophie, I'm a recruiter. You can see them trying so hard not to roll their eyes.

SPEAKER_05 3:48

Yeah, um I could tell you if you but if you turn around and said, Oh, um, we are responsible for placing uh the last millionaire in that company, then everything changes, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_04 3:58

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 3:59

It's like when you see people, I was guilty of it, and you go, uh what'd you do? I'm in telemarketing. Oh. What'd you do? Oh, I'm um I'm a corporate VIP business development SDR fucking magician. Like, oh my god. And you've just changed the title. So it's a bit like you're changing your title of your business, isn't it? You go from that to that. Did you did you feel um a change when you changed that? Did you feel like you'd stepped away from maybe more personal to more corporate branding?

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Completely, mate. Yeah, like honestly, I can't tell you what the rebrand did, not just for the business, but for Sarah and I as well. So, like I guess a nice example of that is we've been going to um a local networking event every month, literally for nearly two years. Now we've been to one of us has been to everyone, we love it. Um funnily enough, it was at that event that we met the guy that we worked with to do our rebrand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:50

So we know it's by the way, can I just say the rebrand, the logo, the mission statement, which we're gonna touch on in a minute, which I really like. It's really nice, it's smooth, it's crisp, and but I don't think it's mad in it because you've rebranded, but you haven't actually changed your identity in what you want to do, have you?

SPEAKER_03 5:05

No, we haven't at all. I mean, I think that the main the main change in uh focus, I suppose, was when we when we set up as Hardy Booth recruitment, the idea was that we would be industry agnostic, um, sales, customer service, operational type roles, multi-industry. And actually, we realized very, very, very quickly that as non-marketers who are winging it anyway, to be industry agnostic, you've got such a fing huge audience, you can't appeal to everybody. And you know, people would say to us at networking events, like, oh, who's a good introduction for you? And we're just like, uh businesses. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It just wasn't memorable. Anyway, we you know, we were so, so fortunate that when we when we hit our first birthday, we sat and did some reflecting, and and actually, God, about 90% of the revenue that we'd done in the first year was from the property industry, from clients that have followed from supported us, yeah, on our journey, which is you know, again, a massive, uh, massive compliment. So we were like, well, let's, you know, let's just stop fighting this. This is obviously what we're good at. This is obviously where our network is strongest. So um, so that's when we yeah, just decided, I guess, to just niche back down. Um, and and with that, we were like, we need to start talking more to the property industry, we need to make our messaging a bit better, more appealing to you know, who we actually want to work with. So um we were like, oh, well, we'll just you know, get back on Canva, freshen up the logo a bit, add all the time.

SPEAKER_05 6:32

Just getting people and marketing and go fucking literally. Well, yeah, Canva is fucking, I will argue the toss. I love Canva. It's really starting off in business. Yeah, and the thing is that some companies, once again, are gonna hear this and go, I charged him £500 once and I did a Canva fucking, and I know you did, because I found the fucking template, by the way, right?

SPEAKER_03 6:53

Canva is is fantastic, yeah, and it's better than the chat GPT posters we've seen everywhere in the room. Oh my god, they're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_05 7:00

So I want to touch on this because you're very authentic. But one thing I did want to was um and something that I pick up on was you do you think a lot of people have followed you because you've scrapped the corporate playbook and people are sick to fucking death of it? Absolutely. Absolutely. Well when you say scrapping the corporate playbook, so tell me what that is.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

So there's a few things really. So I guess me and Sarah had said we're a two-woman band. Um powerhouse. Powerhouse. Yeah, let's go with powerhouse. So we're a two-woman powerhouse. We we know that you know, certainly in our current state, we can't dominate a market. There's only two of us. Um, you know, we we don't get me wrong, we've got plans um to to grow in terms of revenue, not necessarily headcount. Um, but you know, there's only two of us. So there's only so much we can take on, and because of that, we have to be selective with what we take on and who we work with. So we do have a pretty strict criteria. We don't work with corporate companies, first and foremost. So all of our clients are founder-led, owner-managed SMEs.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

And the reason um that we have done that is because, again, just playing on our experience. And let me just scale back. When we were setting up and we were like, right, who do you want to work with? How do we want to position ourselves? We almost um we we salotaped a load of pieces of paper together and put it on the floor and we scribbled down a load of like what was in our head. And we we almost like came up with a bit of like a almost like a breakup letter to the recruitment industry, like all the things that we hated about it.

SPEAKER_05 8:33

That's that's fucking genius.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

It was great, it was such a good exercise. And even though, as I say, the first year was a bit of a fumble just to kind of get going and almost taking on anything, and we still had an idea of this is what we this is what we're aiming for, and these are our morals and these are our ethics and this is what we want to do. And, you know, certainly for me, working like my background has been in financial services. So I recruited for you know all the all the big banks, all the high street banks, and my biggest bugbear with that was you know, we'd get a new role on from HSBC or whatever, and it'd be like, right, cool, briefing call Tuesday, three o'clock, and you log on, and you're one of 12 recruiters on that call. Jesus Christ. Honestly, honestly, and you know it. I appreciate what it's cast your net, but that was ridiculous. So you'd kind of come off this call and be like, right, well, I've not got any relationship with the hiring manager, I don't know the why, I don't know really the purpose of this job, what the impact they're gonna have on the team is, what's in it for them. I've literally got our job spec, and knowing that I'm against 11 other people, it's like fast his finger first, there's just no point.

SPEAKER_05 9:38

And I suppose you're all there's any if you're only in that area, CB library, bull hall, all these you're gonna go for the same people, aren't you? Well, exactly. And if there's 12 of you, where's the logic in there?

SPEAKER_03 9:47

Well, and this is exactly it, because at that point, all you can do for for to for any chance of earning a fee is literally to get on indeed in C V library and whatever, and you're only pulling active people off then. There's nothing wrong with active candidates, of course not. But when you are up against someone like that and your only chance of getting a fee is just by submitting a CV first, I think it's careless. I think it's it's it's not hiring for longevity, it's literally ticking a box. Yeah, um, and you can't you you just can't get into the depths of it.

SPEAKER_05 10:17

So we weren't we weren't prepared to do that when we set up which is admirable because a lot of people would think, fuck it, it worked last time, why not keep carrying on?

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Well, this is it, but how much did it work? Because, you know, yes, I was getting a salary, and yes, I was earning commission, you know, on on other roles that I was filling, but the amount of time that I would put into recruiting for the likes of HSBC, for instance, Barclays, whatever, and it might have changed by now, I haven't been in that market for a while, but the amount of time I put into it versus the amount of commission that the business and I got out of it, it was probably at a loss.

SPEAKER_05 10:50

Jesus. Did you tell them?

SPEAKER_03 10:53

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I was like, this is this is ridiculous. Um but that that was just the way it was. So um we we certainly didn't want that to be, we didn't want to be busy fools, we wanted to be making an an actual impact and building relationships with people.

SPEAKER_05 11:09

It's clear that you have. You look at the success that you you've had online and you've got a lot of roles going on, but the one thing I had here was, you know, you you run on heart, humour, fears, yeah, and offshore hand-offs, right? But how how do you maintain, because every business has a target, how do you talk, how do you maintain that the straight talking human culture without letting strict KPIs ruin it?

SPEAKER_03 11:32

It's a really, really good question. And we don't we don't set ourselves KPIs. Right. Um we feel, and again, this is a sweeping statement, but you know, I do think it's based on a lot of time in the industry that when you are being whipped with a stick and you've got to make X amount of calls a day, you've got to register X amount of people a week, you've got to send this many CVs, you've got blah blah. I I believe that the person at the heart of this recruitment process becomes collateral damage.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

They are a means to hitting a target. And if you speak to candidates and they're like, oh, I spoke to so and so, and I just I felt like I was commissioned. Like people say those words and that's shit. Because I think what a lot of people can forget, and I certainly did in my younger years, you know, and it was all about hitting targets as much as possible. Of course it wasn't, and cutting my teeth. But you know, the older you get, you have children, you have a mortgage, this, that, and the other.

SPEAKER_05 12:27

You don't fuck with people's jobs, or livelihoods, exactly, or families, exactly, or people's businesses. I cut a couple just quickly on a cutting out a couple of years ago, I had a recruiter and I they might hear this. I hope they do. They told me, so we moved into a flat, right? And they told me I had this role, and I was like over the moon. Yeah. So I said to my wife, I said, We got this role, you know, it's all looking good. Yeah. And they said you start in two weeks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 12:50

I'm going on hot. They said, I'm going on holiday.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:52

Okay, fine. So I started getting stuck together. The week goes by, don't hear anything.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:56

Think of the fuck's going on here?

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:59

Next week, oh yeah, I'm still waiting to be back from your start date, it's been pushed back. So in the end, it got to the point where three weeks went by and I'm going, I've got rent show. So I phoned the fucking company, like, am I going to call this? I'm gonna phone them. Yeah. We told him we weren't filling that role anymore. Oh my god. And I sat there and thought, is this a fucking I yeah. So I had a massive gripe then with recruitment because I was like, you I I and he then approached me about recruiting for our company, and I thought, I would never try to do it. I would never fucking yeah, I would never fucking trust you. So I I'm so happy to hear that. In the same breath, we our business has a very small division of recruitment because we know the industry at the back of our heads. Of course. And our fees are probably peanuts compared to other people. Yeah. So we don't need to charge 25, 35, 20%. And you see a lot of emails come through from a group and saying we'll do this one off 15%. And I think fair play.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:48

But when I went live with it, there uh there was a company who I know once again might hear this, and we started getting quite abusive comments on our posts. I wouldn't get out of bed for that. What? And we were like, and and this person, this owner of this business was a head of like uh West Chamber of Commerce or whatever the fuck it was. And I actually contacted them and said, Is this what you're pro promoting?

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:09

Like you're degrading another business. Another business, yeah, yeah. I don't give a shit what your rates are. Just find people a job. You know, like you said, you are fucking with people's livelihoods, you are you are messing around with people's families, their their you know, what puts food on the table. Absolutely. So if you are gonna go a bit lower, yeah, at least you're doing the fucking job. Absolutely. But in the same time, you have got to make sure you're hitting margins, haven't you?

SPEAKER_03 14:32

Of course we have, absolutely. And you know, we we don't get me wrong, of course we have revenue targets that we know we we need to hit, want to hit, would be fucking brilliant to hit, sort of thing. But you know, what we we we just we won't cut corners on our on our morals and our ethics because it's it's just as I say, I I don't know if this has come with age or what, but you know, I I know just just the from running a business, how hard it can be in those tight months and you know, when things are when it's a bit squeaky bum time, I know how frightening that is for me. So why would I inflict that on somebody else?

SPEAKER_05 15:05

Yeah, yeah. And I think that also comes with another part of the conversation we're getting on to, it becomes being a parent, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 15:10

God, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:11

Because you start understanding what is valuable, yeah. And what is important, absolutely. And how would you want your children to be treated?

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:18

You know, there's a people say don't treat staff like children, and you know, and I get that, but it starts at home, doesn't it? And how you treat them. Of course it does. Absolutely. And that's a bit that's a big thing, which we're gonna we're gonna come back to. Yeah, sure. You're obviously mostly in property, but what I want to know is what what is actually happening in Manchester and Cheshire property scene right now? Uh are the really independent firms looking for talent?

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Yeah, oh God, absolutely. It's um it's it seems to be a little bit quiet at the moment, which is no bad thing. You know, it's it's it's well it's the market, isn't it? It's always volatile in property, but you know, you only need to get off the train in Piccadilly, walk out of the station to see that actually wow is the place to be for property.

SPEAKER_05 16:01

Northwest at the moment. I mean, the government announced the Northwest construction boom. I think it's 4.2 billion going into the Northwest.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:09

Why are why why do you think A, bills are behind, and B, people are struggling to buy and sell houses at the moment if that's the case?

SPEAKER_03 16:17

Yeah, well, I think what we found um a few years ago, certainly, is that Manchester it is was and still is, you know, cheaper than cheaper than the lights of London. Um and we had a massive boom in and around Manchester in off-plan investment sales. So, you know, that the the big developers put in um you know, building fantastic blocks of flats in the city centre, and you've got agents who are selling these units before they've been built. Um, and kind of when it was booming a few years ago, like it was booming, like so many overseas investors were really interested in investing in Manchester in the off-plan space. Um, buying off plan has its benefits for a few reasons. It's it's generally a bit cheaper, faster deals, that sort of thing, but it comes with its risks like bills being behind and this, that, and the other. So, you know, it swings and roundabouts, but but you know, I think the notable difference between um unit prices in London and Manchester made Manchester really, really exciting for investors. Um we've found now we're at a point actually where the off-plan market is really quiet um because it has become more expensive. It's not it's not as as exciting as it was a few years ago. Um, but what's picking up at the moment we're finding is tenanted investment sales. So with the whole renters' rights um bill that's come in. Big changes, that big changes, dude.

SPEAKER_05 17:44

Do you do you do you think that's just quickly cutting in there with the renters' rights? Do you think that's because people are struggling and they need to make sure people are being kept in homes?

SPEAKER_03 17:53

Yeah, I mean, do you know I've I've I've listened to loads of webinars on this, and I went to the um NRLA conference in Liverpool, I think it was last year, um, and there was it was before the right the the bill had come in, and obviously that was the hot topic of the conference. And actually, don't get me wrong, it's a ballake for landlords, um, and it's a ball ache for landlords in a time where we need landlords more than anything because yeah, there is a housing crisis, they're not being built fast enough, and then it people they're making it really, really difficult for landlords to continue to be landlords.

SPEAKER_05 18:26

Justify being a landlord. And at one point, at one point when I was younger, I used to hear people saying, Oh, I really want to get into property.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:32

Because I can make my money. And now I you see on LinkedIn, you see on Instagram, Facebook, I've got 40 properties, I'm selling them all.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:38

Because of because of these rights.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 18:40

But on the flip side of the coin, we've both rented properties.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:44

Right. We know how hard it is to try and find somewhere to live. Yeah. And I know people that have been dealt a really shit hand before and been told you've got to get out in a month. Yeah. And they've got no, and they've got kids and they've got nowhere to go. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

So So, yeah, like I, you know, I don't I don't necessarily think it's come from a bad place, but I do I d I think an awful lot has been piled on landlords recently, and the whole making tax digital thing is a massive thing that's impacted landlords as well. So it's just like they've had a load of shit piled on them in really, really quick succession. You know, but I think before the uh before the bill came in, and it's only still very recent, so I've not spoken to too many people yet about the impact it's actually having. Um, but you know, beforehand, people were the the kind of constances was look, if you're a good landlord and you're doing everything properly, then yes, you know, there's going to be changes, you're gonna have to do a bit more work. I would highly recommend if you self-manage at the moment to get yourself a good managing agent um to protect yourself. Obviously, with that comes a fee. So this is where they're being squeezed, but generally, if you're a good landlord, you'll be fine. This is to weed out cowboys and chances and people that do treat the tenants like shit.

SPEAKER_05 19:52

Well, do you think student landlords were a part of that then? You were a student yourself, right? In Chester.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

And what was your landlord like in Chester?

SPEAKER_05 19:58

I don't want you to.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

Oh, tell you what my landlord's like in Chester. Do you remember oh no, did we know each other when I was in my first year? No. When I lived on um opposite the Georgian Dragon pub? No. No, we didn't. I think I started working at at the bar in my second year, didn't I? Anyway, um my landlord in my second year, she was absolutely lovely. She was so nice, and like she used to what she did used to do is come around unannounced, um, which wasn't ideal. Not when you're in university. No no, um, but she did use to bring cakes and stuff, so whatever.

SPEAKER_05 20:34

And then she's on easy still going.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

Oh god, she's here again. But she was nice.

SPEAKER_05 20:40

Um there hung over and fucking brownie, like go in soon, just fucking looking at my book. I'll take it.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

But oh my god, my last little landlord. Um I got onto them not so long after living in that house, and I was like, I can't remember the names now, but I was like, Oh, there's um there's mushrooms going in the shower.

SPEAKER_05 21:06

Yeah, we know as part of it.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Literally, she was like, Oh, have you have you picked them off? I was like, No, no, of course we're not gonna pick the fucking mushrooms off. She was like, Well, just pick them off and see if we come back. So I did, and guess what? They came fucking back. So uh yeah, the last landlord wasn't as it wasn't as good, you know, and you expect student digs to be a bit minging, but fucking mushrooms growing in the shower.

SPEAKER_05 21:32

I mean, they grow in ours, are we not stupid? I just thought they were part of the fucking so I need to do some cleaning of fucking dead. No, um, I love how we've gone from recruitment to mushrooms in the shower. Fantastic. So obviously you're saying uh Manchester, Cheshire's booming. Are they the only areas you cover, or do you cover everywhere?

SPEAKER_03 21:51

Yeah, so we cover Manchester and Cheshire. Um we are not um adverse to covering a little further afield, maybe Merseyside. Um Maybe leads. We don't yet. But again, I guess just going back to kind of our criteria, we won't work with anybody who won't meet us face to face.

SPEAKER_05 22:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

So, and we we personally don't want to be travelling to Scotland, to London, to Birmingham every other week. So we like to keep things nice and local so that we can actually meet our clients, meet our candidates, and as well. Me and Sarah, that's where we're from, you know. Um, apart from living in Chester for a few years. I've always been in and around Manchester and Cheshire. So that's where my personal and professional network is. So it just would make sense for us to stay low.

SPEAKER_05 22:39

Yeah, absolutely. And it's Sarah from is Sarah Manchester as well.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

Yeah, so Sarah is um she's Wilmslow away. So and that's where our office is, which is nice. So we're lovely, yeah. It's dead nice, and just a great position for us, as I say. We kind of straddled town and uh and and Cheshire, we're perfectly in the middle.

SPEAKER_05 22:58

It sounds to me, uh, a few other people like you're very people first person.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:04

Why is that so important to you?

SPEAKER_03 23:07

Um I think again, I think it's I think it's the the outcome of a long career in recruitment and now being our own boss, we know what we want to do, we know how we want to do things, how we want to be referred, how we want to be known. Um, you know, it's it our our company, yeah, it is a recruitment agency, that's what we do, but we really, really don't like to act that way. Um the typical way. We we do feel like we're challenging that 100%.

SPEAKER_05 23:40

Yeah, 100%. You're disrupted. I suppose as well. Um, just to sort of go off that beating track there, you're a mum as well, right? I am a mum. And your little boy, but Bobby Bobby Bobby, right? He hope you don't mind me saying this, he's he's not a divergent, right? He is. Is it is it autistic?

SPEAKER_03 23:57

Yeah, so he was diagnosed autistic when he was three. Yeah. Um, so yeah, he it was very uh obvious from a very young age that he was different. Okay. Um so yeah, he was diagnosed autistic when he was three. Okay. Um he's currently non-verbal. Okay. Do you know? I think I should start switching it to pre-verbal because I feel I feel like one day he might talk to me. Um and he has, I don't know if you meant to say this anymore, but he does have learning disabilities. So he is four, but cognitively he's not four.

SPEAKER_05 24:29

Yeah, yeah, I get you. My brother, my mumma listens to this and she will relate to this. So my brother's autistic. Yeah, my mum and dad are his full-time care workers, and there is a lot of red tape over what you should and shouldn't say, but the way I see it is he's your child. Absolutely. So you address it a whatever the fuck.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

Well, I say, yeah, and it doesn't offend me, and it is what it is, you know. He he he's not able, he he's not able to learn in in the typical way that we all do. So, you know, therefore, you it's learning disability in my eyes, but yeah, so so I have Bobby four years ago, um, and he has oh my god, he's completely changed me. It it's don't get me wrong, right? It's been the fucking hardest thing in the world raising a boy um that is so different and not typical, and I've had to learn so much so quick.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:18

And, you know, I dreamt of being mum when I was pregnant, but I'm not just mum, I'm carer, I'm advocate, I'm some horrible woman that has to shout at the local authority all the time to fight for his fucking basic needs.

SPEAKER_05 25:33

But I think there's gonna be a lot of people listening to this that are gonna come forward and say, my mum will and say, I know exactly what I'm saying. Exactly what I mean.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 25:40

I do want to touch on this, but uh what my point was was that you're such a Bobby's like the apple of your eye, you know, he's a little boy, and I know recently you went to the school with him, didn't you? Yeah. Um such a powerful post, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:51

But that must relay so much into your work because you just said then you're arguing with the authorities to get the proper attention.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:00

That I still to this day don't think is right. Whilst you're running a business and trying to get people into their proper jobs. Yeah, absolutely. It's a crossover, right?

SPEAKER_03 26:08

Yeah, massively, absolutely. And and it's it's you know, I think Bobby, Bobby has taught me more about life, about being a better person, about advocacy, about having to stand up for yourself more than in four years than my 13 years in recruitment. He's made me stronger, kinda, better. Um, and for that, you know, it I almost I'm not very like, I'm not I wouldn't class myself as a spiritual person at all, but I do believe I was meant to have him. That's amazing. Yeah, he was meant to end up with me. And my husband, obviously. I'm sorry, Adam. And you've been and you've been with Adam for I've been with Adam, we've been together 10 years this year. And you you've been married for four?

SPEAKER_05 26:56

Four. He'll answer. Yeah, I think he's four. So Bobby was Bobby he got married and then Bobby called along or was it?

SPEAKER_03 27:02

Yeah, no, other way around. So we had Bobby first. So we were meant to get married um in uh 2020, but obviously COVID uh cancelled about three times. So um we we just we sacked it off in the end and just like just carry on as normal. We we got married. Absolutely. Um but yeah, no, it he's he honestly like I say, he's it it's it's the mo it's been the hardest thing that's ever happened to me. It's been the most upsetting thing that's ever happened to me, but I wouldn't change it, I wouldn't change him. Um it's a really it's a really strange.

SPEAKER_05 27:35

I mentioned in my opinion. Yeah. Are you okay? Yeah, fine. Um you're right, you were meant to have him. He wasn't meant to come and show a line. I think he was, yeah. And that's why proper is doing so well. You can see the passion and emotion you have with your company and knowing you personally, you can see that relate into him. Yeah. And that is it, that is such an incredible to be able to handle running a business or having a narrow divergence of. I mean, I can say my brother's autistic. Yeah. My daughter's got ADHD. Yeah, yeah. But I know you've been through some challenging times. Yeah. And I and I I think the fact that you fight is just so recommendable. So honestly, kudos to you, and I hope I hope there's someone listening to this that maybe can step forward and say, what do you need?

SPEAKER_03 28:20

Do you know? And that would be lovely, or someone that could step forward and say, I feel that too. You know, and I've and you know, another beautiful, beautiful byproduct of having Bobby actually has been this SEN parent community that I obviously didn't know existed. Um, you know, meeting people that are going through what I'm going through. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I've always um obviously I post a loaded a load of stuff on LinkedIn. I like to you know try and be personal as well as professional on LinkedIn because I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_05 28:52

Apparently, people buy from people around.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Absolutely, that's what I've heard.

SPEAKER_05 28:55

But then people piss a moan that LinkedIn is now social. Now Facebook. Well, what do you want us to do? Because if you the same people that say people buy from people are once going, this isn't Facebook. Exactly. This isn't Instagram, I don't want to see your selfie, I don't want to see your holiday picks. The fuck off.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

Is it doesn't it make it so much more fun?

SPEAKER_05 29:10

I I post a photo the other day of our business, right? Yeah. And it was like, we're doing this, and there was like two likes, one from Sean, one from Scott and the other sharp with a fucking dog. 35 likes. Oh my god, you've got such an amazing dog with connections, messages. Yeah. So like I'm always stuck between a rock and a hard place of what I should be posting on LinkedIn because you get the moaners and then you get the people that fully agree with it. You do. What what where do I stand with this? Yeah, I know. And I think I think for for for yourself and Bobby, what's your partner's name? Sorry, Adam. Adam. Yeah, you it's right to be posting on a platform where now more than ever people are talking openly and honestly about the support they need. Where else are you gonna go for it?

SPEAKER_03 29:47

Well, this is exactly it, you know, and I and I will I don't post, I'm not like an active real poster on um Instagram or whatever, but I will share things that I've seen, or you know, I'll I'll talk about Bobby, or if I'll but if oh my god, if we ever get a video of him actually saying words like straight on my Instagram story, because it's so magical. And and I've had people um like I've joined like I don't really use Facebook as much anymore, but when Bobby was really little and I was searching for that community, I joined like SEN Mum groups and this, that, and the other, and and actually it's and it's beautiful. Like I say, I've met people that would never have met, and we've been brought together because of our um funky kids, you know, and and the and there's a real community, and and people going through it want to help other people going through it, and and that's that's just been a really lovely thing.

SPEAKER_05 30:35

And do you feel like having that having that experience has made you uh more empathetic, more of a better leader when you're meeting people?

SPEAKER_03 30:42

Absolutely, absolutely, and as well, I just feel like um I don't want this to sound really depressing, um but I feel like people can't hurt me because I've got a son and he's never said mummy. Do you know what I mean? Like that is the biggest sadness that I live with. And I'm hopeful that one day he will. Um, but it's like, you know, just I may I may as well just go out there and be my true sister.

SPEAKER_05 31:14

When he does, he let us know, right? Of course I'll straight away and get him on here so we can hear that.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

So he can yeah, he can record his little podcast. But no, you know, and and I just feel like because of that, like I've I've in my world, and people have gone through and are going through so much worse, but in my world, that's the saddest thing that's happened to me. Yeah. So it's like, well, nothing hurts me that much. So I can just go out and and do what I do and be me and do things my way. And if you don't like it, like it's really, really cool because nothing can hurt me more than that, you know? So it's I know that's the really depressing point, but it's actually No, because I think once again, there are going to be people who hear that and go, Oh my god, you're just telling you you've come on here to tell your story.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:56

And this isn't it is called business life in other bollocks. Yeah, and bollocks isn't just business, it's life. Yeah, of course. Everyone needs a bit of support. Yeah. And you know, someone like yourself, I don't know, I wouldn't know where to start other than hoping that you get the support you need. I'm sure you will, because you're a fighter, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Yeah, 100%. And you know, and I think as well, like nowadays, you know, for instance, you specifically saying I I wouldn't know where to start. And I'm sure this is something you do, AOA, because of your brother. But what I would love to see from people who, you know, own and lead businesses and and they lead other people is to be making sure that you know there's space for neurodiverse people in their business. Okay. Like that's support that I want to see. It doesn't necessarily impact me or Bobby directly, but like, you know, my God, you your last guest on here, the longevity doctor. Like I was I was hanging on every word that he says because I um and I bet your mum feels this and has felt this, like it keeps me up at night. What's gonna happen when I die? Like, who's gonna look after Bobby? Because no one can look after him like me. I know the best, I can read his mind, nobody else can. And that and that, you know, that kind of keeps me awake at night. Um, so yeah, but God, listening to to Dr. Tom was absolutely well, it was really appropriate, actually, you know, for how I'm feeling in my life. But you know, but it's things like that. I I feel like I and and all CEN parents worry more about their very young children's future than parents of typical children probably do at this stage. And I know we all worry, of course we do. Um, but like what what what happens to Bobby, you know, after school, you know, if he doesn't talk, will he ever find work? Will he need lifelong care? This, that, and the other? And it's those worries that I have for him, which and we'll find our way. Whatever will be, will be. That's cool. But I would just love from all this, you know, autism awareness, um, neurodiversity celebration things that happen. I just for me, I would just love to see more businesses implementing that, making more space for everybody.

SPEAKER_05 34:01

Um how how would you and it's so lovely to hear this, but but you're you're a business owner, so you're always thinking of ways to incorporate. And I how how would businesses do that? Talk me through that.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

You know, there's so many different ways. And I was actually at um I was actually at like a seminar thing on Tuesday that was talking about this exactly. Um, and we heard from some incredible, they're all women actually, um, women who work for quite large corporates. Um, there was law, there was construction, there was a play therapist, she was incredible. Um, and they were talking about the kind of EDI stuff that they do in in their business. Um, obviously, these are businesses with bigger budgets, so they can run like actual kind of committees and societies and this, that, and the other. But something that I thought was really, really powerful that any business could do was the power of storytelling. So for instance, for instance, you as um a business owner with ADHD. Um can you tell?

unknown 35:02

I can't.

SPEAKER_05 35:03

I think everyone can. I'm I'm sitting here, my legs go chopped.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

Yeah, yeah, there's no surprises there. But like, you know, obviously, for instance, for you, I don't know. Um I mean, did you did you suspect it yourself or was it when Scarlet came along?

SPEAKER_05 35:18

Absolutely. Thank you for asking the question. Um yeah, I think I mean I don't know who wouldn't suspect. Well, yeah, I think that's a good thing. I think I think I think I think the thing is now I think um I think ADHD, uh no diversity now, and autism, there is more awareness than ever. I go back to when my mum was younger with my brother Chris. Yeah, um and yeah, he he went to a school and he had respite, but there was never as much attention, love or care as there is now. Like mental health, yeah. Okay, and I I want to touch on that in a minute. Um but I always had a feeling because I'm dyslexic as well. Right. I I can't I can spell, but I can't as well. Like I watch everything, I write, like I'm just I'm scribbling everything down. Um but I'm I'm very inquisitive about things, I love movies, like I fucking I love films. So I watch a film, but then I have to watch the making of a film, and then I have to learn, and it's like my fucking and then and I think maybe that's why I set this up because I I'm obsessed with like the theatrical side of it. Yeah, like Sean hates plays, but I fucking love I love yeah, and not many people would think that, but like but I love I love art, like I love watching people sing, like I love I even love like classical music, I love I love all things like that, yeah. Which is pretty mental from a bloke sat in his bar with a beer with a podcast called Business Life and Other Plays, right? But but there's I think that's the ADHD side of it, and that's the opposite side of it. Like I'm very hyperactive and very wanna wanna know what's going on, yeah. But I also love to just listen and just take it in. So yeah, I think there's always been an element of me knowing I had ADHD.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:03

Um but I think when Scarlett came along and Sean suspected it straight away, she's like, yeah, yeah. She she kind of she clicked on straight away, and then I went with her and we both sort of got diagnosed at the same time. Yeah. I and I think once that was done it, a lot of a lot of underwhelming questions came to life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I sort of noticed the way in which I handled certain situations made sense to what was being told to me.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:27

Um, so yeah, I I suppose I always sort of had a feeling it was there.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:34

Um I remember being in school and hated being school.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

Did you?

SPEAKER_05 37:38

Spy school.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:40

I think there's I think the teachers despise me. In fact, I think a lot of people in there. But um, I could never pay attention.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:46

There were certain c classes I loved doing, but I just hated school. Yeah. I mean what what what what did you go to? What did you do in uni?

SPEAKER_03 37:55

Uh so at Chester I did history. And then you wanted to become a history teacher. I don't know why. I just wanted to go to uni, Mike. I just wanted to waste three years. What was Chester Uni like not real? It was mint. Yeah. Deadwood fun. Absolutely loved it. But it you know, it was great. I absolutely loved it. Great people. Chester's immense, isn't it? But it is uh well, I think um I felt like I'd just outgrown it, um, you know, to towards the end, so I I left. Um so yeah, I did I did history at Chester, and then a few years later I did my master's um in business administration, which was really cool. Um that one's definitely been more useful than my history degree.

SPEAKER_05 38:38

Yeah, I I I haven't got any GCSEs, none at all, no qualifications. I think I think that's the thing about business, right? And you you said before, you worked in recruitment for so long and you you grew a passion for it. So you end up growing a passion for a business, and you always sit back and you go, I think I can do this better.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:56

And in your in your eyes, what's the biggest lesson you've learned since setting up the business?

SPEAKER_04 39:04

Ooh, that is a great question. Um I'm full of him. You are full of him.

SPEAKER_03 39:11

The biggest lesson I've learned since setting up our business I don't know do you know that needs a bit more thought, but the first thing that comes to mind is just to be completely and uh unapologetically authentic. Well um We're gonna touch on something. Oh god.

SPEAKER_05 39:30

So hang on, I hope uh where is your I found it the other day. It was about what your ethos is. No, what is it? Uh oh well I've fucking lost it, yeah. Right. In your job, and for anyone listening, guys, I'm gonna include this and somehow into my T's and C's. In your job disclaimers, you're explicitly right, no fluff, no pushiness, no knobets. Now that sounds brilliant. I know I like it. That sounds that does sound brilliant on paper, but have you actually had to turn away a massive high playing climbing because they they violated the no knobeds um rule? Yeah. What was that like?

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Um painful, obviously, from a revenue point of view. Why were they knobeds? It was um it was a client that we worked with very, very early on, um when we were still hardy booth, um and they the the person who was in charge who was our contact was not appropriate with the staff we were putting in there.

SPEAKER_04 40:45

Oh yeah, we can't do that.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

I'm a mum. Okay, well can't do that about everybody.

SPEAKER_05 40:53

So that goes back to what I was saying before. Yeah. Is shaped you would you before you had Bobby?

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:01

Would you have maybe would that know Nobed's rule gonna? Because it seems like you've rebranded and incorporated this at the same time as do you feel like there's a sort cross in it?

SPEAKER_03 41:11

Uh I would really, really, really like to think that yes, my morals and ethics would have stood strong before we we found it proper. Um however, when you are employed, you are working for somebody else, you know, and th they're paying your salary at the end of the day. So there is there's there you can absolutely kind of stand your ground and this, that and the other, but you've also got to try and keep your job as well, you know. And I I I feel very lucky though that I can't look back on my 13 years in recruitment and think of any really horrible situations where I've been forced to do the wrong thing because none of the companies that I've worked for have been inherently bad companies. Um from every single company that I've worked at, I've got friends for life, you know, and and I'm I'm so lucky. And that that's a testament to you know my managers that were hiring the teams and why I joined. It was always because of the people that I was going to be with.

SPEAKER_05 42:14

Wouldn't that be people listening to this saying no, it's also a testament to you and your personality? Because I've known you for 13 years, maybe longer actually. 15 years. Yeah, yeah. And I've always known you to be like the happiest person I've ever met in my life. Even when you are having a shit day, you smiled and got on with it. If I'm having a if I'm having a shit day, I just want to sit in here.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:34

Drink a lot of gin.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

Hey, look, you know, we I definitely have those days. You know, ask Adam, poor bastard. You know, when when I've when it's when it's low, it can be really low, but um I do just try very hard to smile. Even when you don't feel like it, you know, and I do I do it when I'm running, like I'm in the trenches and I'm running, I'm just like, right, just smile and I'll smile like so. Running's become a big thing for you, hasn't it? Like it has saved my life. I like that. Honestly, it has saved my life in so many ways. Um, I've always had a bit of an on-off relationship with running.

SPEAKER_05 43:14

Sorry when I say it like that.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

Yeah, well, don't mean how bad it was.

SPEAKER_05 43:19

I like the fact you found that self-care. Yeah. And I'll yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

Oh man, yeah, and not just self-care, but again, another community that I didn't have before. Like I said, I've always had this on-off relationship with Run in and the gym and fitness and this, that, and the other. And um when just before um we we set up proper, um found myself, I guess, just in a bit of a rot health wise. Um yeah, I put on loads of weight. I wasn't getting to the gym because I just didn't have the hours of the day. Um I was I was drinking was I drinking more? Probably. Um I was drinking, um, I was on my vape. I never put my vape down. And do you know what? And I just got myself into a bit of a rot. And when we set up proper and and I had that flexibility, I kind of looked in the mirror and I thought, oh heck, you know, this this isn't me that I've got myself into a bit of a not a mess, but this isn't me. I'm not taking care of myself the way I always have done. So shifted a bit of weight um with a with a coach. Um so I use a personal trainer and I have done for must be getting on two years now. Um and then as I started to not have as much weight on my knees, running became much more enjoyable. Um and there's a where I live in a little uh town called Poynton, there's a a cafe um or cafe's old and they make the best cappuccinos and almond class lunch you'll ever have. So it was a regular that honestly. Cafe's all massive. Um you must, it's the best. And they started a run club. Okay. Um so I messaged my uh I messaged my friend and I was like, Do you fancy go into this? And he was like, Oh, all right then. So I went, as I say, near nearly two years ago, I think, and two years on, as I say, I've lived in Pointon pretty much my whole life, apart from as I say, students in Chester and living in Manchester. I've got more friends and I know more people now in the place that I've always lived than I ever have done. Yeah, yeah. So I've got a whole new social circle, a whole new, you know, load of people that where we support each other, we challenge each other. Um, I started taking running seriously, as I say, when when I started at the run club, and at that point, running 5K was a challenge, and I've obviously recently just done my marathon.

SPEAKER_05 45:28

So I've seen that, yeah, it's it's incredible. And I think it's I think that's such an important thing because I was in a similar situation. Um so back in 2020 when we set up, I found myself in a so from like March to June, obviously COVID it, and I had set the company up and we lost all of our clients, so I worked for free. Found myself fucking doing stupid TikTok videos to this day. But I passed the time, yeah, and I made a bit of money for Amazon. Okay, hey, happy days. Um and I think I think it was about three years ago, I really looked at myself and I thought, oh my god, what the fuck have I done? Like, and it was just a light bulb moment, so I started going to gym first thing in the morning before work. Yeah, I had to be there, yeah. And it's been the same ever since. And I I think it's like two and a half to seven that I'll be down since then. Yeah. I've got my brother who's my personal trainer, who's been on the show as well. Um and I think I think you're right. It's not that you it's not that you it's hard to explain. You look at yourself in a different way. And I've noticed this. I go to the gym in the morning, and when I go to the gym, my brain is like supercharged.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

Yeah. Do you get that way of running? Totally. Like that, that is my if I've had a shit day, I will go on a run. And as I say, right at the beginning of my running journey, it was about losing weight, you know, and it it was much more for me of a as a what see in the mirror sort of thing. But as I have fallen in love with running, it's my it's my escape for an hour.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:01

I don't know if this is a weird thing to say, but I love how repetitive running is. Do you know what I mean? I'm just one hour, one foot in front of the other. I just know what I'm doing for a whole hour. Yeah. And that is dead nice. No nasty surprises. I just know where I'm going and what I need to do for an hour. Almost therapeutic. Very much so.

SPEAKER_05 47:17

And and I know people who listen to the show that are rubbers, and I bet they'll be able to relate to that as well.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

100%. And it's just being outside for an hour as well. You know what it's like when you've been sat at your desk all day and it's like, bloody hell, it's it's getting dark. I'm not I'm not seeing the outdoors today, and it's getting out there, and that does so much. But but now, as I say, at the beginning it was very much about kind of aesthetics and and how I felt like I looked, but now it's about longevity, you know, being healthy, making sure I'm around as long as possible for Bobby, making sure I'm strong enough to lift him when he needs lifting. Like he's a big boy and he's only four, and uh, you know, and and because of because of the way he is, like, for instance, I can't say to Bobby, um, I can't say to Bobby, in the car, go on, climb in. He doesn't he doesn't understand that. Yeah, yeah. So I still have to lift him into the car, lift him out of the car. If we're going, um, if it's bath time, for instance, I can't say to him, right, come on, time for a bath, because he doesn't understand that. So I have to carry him upstairs.

SPEAKER_05 48:16

His brain just must be fing working. He must just be No wonder that so that hour is your recipe, right? It is, absolutely that. So, did you get any respite for him?

SPEAKER_03 48:26

Not at the well, he goes to nursery five days a week. Okay. He's been going to nursery blessings since he was seven months old, and he fucking loves it.

SPEAKER_05 48:36

And that's his normality, right?

SPEAKER_03 48:38

Absolutely. He loves it and he loves the people that are there, and they love him as well. And even the children are so fab with him. Like every morning when I drop him off, I hear a little voice going, Hi Bobby. And he's never said it back to them. Every morning the kids say hi, Bobby.

SPEAKER_05 48:52

Yeah, I think nursery workers in particular. I know a couple of them and they work so hard.

SPEAKER_03 48:56

Oh my, they're in they're incredible.

SPEAKER_05 48:58

I would love to get uh uh someone that runs nurseries on here because I think they are so incredible. They don't start, they're no half terms, it's constant.

SPEAKER_03 49:06

And it's long hours as well. Like I can drop Bobby off at seven, don't have to pick him up till six.

SPEAKER_05 49:11

Yeah, Parker goes to one and they're fantastic. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:13

They're absolutely brilliant. And and they um the the people at Bobby's nursery, like, because there's so many things you need to have in place for a a display a disabled child starting school, it's called an EHCP. Yeah, yeah. We've had to do it with Scarlet. Have you there you go? And how hard is it to get?

SPEAKER_05 49:29

Well, Sean, to her credit, she fought tooth and nail. And that's another thing I want to touch on. If anyone's listened to this, you need to start making it easier for parents with children with autism or ADHD or neurodiversity. You've got to start making it easier because the I've heard horror stories of people getting rejected, and you think, how, how? And the board, the panel, they listen to it. And I get I get that we only have so many people, but Sean had to really fight. Yeah, I did. Make it easy for people.

SPEAKER_03 49:54

This is it, because this and it says this, you know, to I was doing the day, I was like, look, I I didn't ask for this, you know, I didn't ask for a child that needs all this additional help. If I if he didn't need it, I'd rather he didn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Obviously. But but he does. That's the hand I've been dealt. So I'm gonna play it. Um you you you are supposedly there to support me and to advise me and to help me get this, that, and the other in place. But it's like, right, so like for instance, he he he went to a mainstream uh preschool for uh a year uh because I I didn't know he'd get into a special school. He has done, thankfully, but I thought he'd be going to this mainstream primary school. And they were brilliant with him, but he got to a year in, they're like, look, so if we can't meet his needs, so I was like, right, fine. So we're looking at special provisions. She said, Yeah, yeah. She said, But Sophie, you're gonna have to fight. And I was like, I'll fight anyone, but who? Who do I fight? And what do I say? Like, you know, and it's crazy. And then I was speaking to someone on Tuesday at this seminar, and I was saying, you know, Bobby's got his EHDP, he's going to a special school, he's got his diagnosis, all at the age of four. I was like, I feel really lucky. And she was like, Isn't that mad that you feel lucky that your child's got the basic care that he needs? You feel lucky. Literally, I feel blessed.

SPEAKER_05 51:09

Like, yeah, I feel so lucky that I'm getting this for my son that I uh I don't is my tongue. Tell me about it. So going back to that running, that's your therapy. Yeah, what's your self-care like then? Um you're running a business, you got this going on in the background. I can imagine people listening to this going, wow. I'm listening to it, and I'm thinking, like I ran a business and it was hard enough. You're running a business and you're fighting and you're just trying to get answers. Yeah. So how do you what's your self-care?

SPEAKER_03 51:43

Um, what is my self-care?

SPEAKER_05 51:46

Yeah, but that's it.

SPEAKER_03 51:47

That's it, done. Rose generally. Very, very pale Rose is my self-care. Um I I I like to go to the gym as well as running. Um, you know, and and what I really, really like to do, um, and I think both Sarah and I have been really, really good at this, actually, is even though we're running a business, weekends are weekends.

SPEAKER_05 52:11

Correct. And we really do. And now this was my guilty. So I'm happy you said this. So this is where I was bad. I sacrificed Saturdays. I'd go to the office on my own. Yeah. I would work Saturday and Sunday, and I know there's gonna be business Sundays there going, well, that's what you got to do. You do that, you do you. I've done that. Now, after five o'clock at night, nothing could be fixed. Absolutely. I replied to an email last night at six because the guy wanted to know rates.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:35

No problem. Yeah, sure. But I used to sit there doing all sorts still ten o'clock at night.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:41

And when Parker came along, I just point blank refused. Yeah. Okay, every now and again I'll jump on and do a little bit. Of course. But on a Saturday, that's family time. Absolutely. The hours are long, yeah. Monday to Friday. They are the 5 pm and 5am hustle is bullshit. It's sometimes for you how many times do you wake up and go, fuck, I forgot that.

SPEAKER_03 53:00

Oh my god, so many times.

SPEAKER_05 53:02

Not just with that, but with Bobby as well.

SPEAKER_03 53:03

Oh my god, so much. And and and and just the term waking up about any about your mum's same or any other sen um parents, sleep just doesn't exist with an autistic child either.

SPEAKER_05 53:17

I remember finding my mum once in the kitchen at three o'clock in the morning, just having a cup of tea, and she just sat there and I was like, You're alright, mum.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:24

I think I just got in from a night out like Rosies. I love how sounding up, yeah, probably the more rare. I love how sounding dead voice I walked in like I am, mum, isn't that? Yeah. Um and she was just like, I'm just too age.

SPEAKER_03 53:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:39

So there was no, there was nothing in particular. She was just deep in thought about what was going to happen to Chris, my brother. So self-care, I think, is a must.

SPEAKER_03 53:50

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_05 53:51

But it's everyone's self-care is different.

SPEAKER_03 53:53

It is totally. And I don't have like, you know, a strict regime. I like to read every now and then, although generally I'm not a ma I used to be a massive reader, but now I get into bed with a book and I'm like half a page in and my eyes are going. So we got into bed at half seven last night.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

Oh, that's the dream.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

Honestly, we just loaded each other.

SPEAKER_05 54:09

Because my alarm goes up at half four every morning.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:12

And I get the gym for about six.

SPEAKER_01 54:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:15

And by the time I've finished and everything's done, we just sat there and we're just like, should we just go to sleep?

SPEAKER_04 54:23

Is it bedtime now? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:24

And we've been in bed at half seven, put a film on. I was asleep by nine. Yeah. I was like, this is the dream. It doesn't always work like that.

SPEAKER_03 54:29

No.

SPEAKER_05 54:29

But self-care, I think, is the most important part of a business owner's life. Yeah. Absolutely. It's how do you do that self-care?

SPEAKER_03 54:35

Yeah, and I think, as I say, I d I don't have a this is what I do for my self-care. But as I say, I just, you know, me and Sarah both are very much like, no, weekends are weekends. As you say, nothing, nothing is spoiling between Friday at five o'clock and Monday at half eight, you know? Anything can wait.

SPEAKER_05 54:54

Um three o'clock nine times out of ten. Yeah. Everyone's finished up. Absolutely. In the office, aren't they? Fucking, I mean I I all I do is go to GN or red wine.

unknown 55:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:04

So I mean, I ask everyone this question. Yeah. Feel free to say no. What has been the hardest moment of your career so far?

SPEAKER_03 55:17

The hardest moment of my career so far.

SPEAKER_05 55:20

The hardest moment since setting up the business.

SPEAKER_03 55:22

Since setting up the business.

SPEAKER_04 55:24

Um let me think.

SPEAKER_03 55:30

I mean not none of it's been like easy as in anyone else wanting to do it, I'd be like, right, yeah, really, really, really think about this. Um but I do feel like Sarah and I have had we've had a really, really good start.

SPEAKER_00 55:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:51

Um which is rare. It's it is rare, absolutely. And we don't take any of that for granted. You know, we we often refer to our clients as our treasured clients, and like that couldn't be a truer word because they so so are. Um I think just I guess the hardest thing is is just the in recruitment and and well, any business owner's to-do list is just never done, is it? So, you know, I think it's it's that always on mentality. Um, you know, one of the one of the biggest push factors for me setting up um the business and for me and Sarah, you know, kind of deciding to take the plunge was because I needed, I needed flexibility, like with Bobby, you know, no I say no employer. I'm sure there are some out there, but for a small, you know, owner mass managed SME, it's very it's actually very, very difficult to give me the flexibility that I needed for my son, you know, and and and I I understand that, I really, really do. But because I couldn't have that flexibility, it was it was it was impacting my performance, it was impacting my mental health, my relationship, the home, my relationships with Bobby. So it I guess like the hardest bit of my career has actually probably come before setting up proper. That's fine. And proper was proper was the cure to that. That's good. It's not easy, of course it's not bloody easy. Like it, you know.

SPEAKER_05 57:10

So what would you say the hard so okay? And if there so you sound like such a positive person, yeah, there's gotta be a point where you're not yeah, of course there is, and well anyone listens to this or think, Mike, you're trying to get out of it. I'm not. No, I'm just it for me, it's always if you I think you you you would be amazing going into a business, and I think getting the best out of people in the sense of I think people would listen to you and find the the the the the positives and a and negative situation. I mean, how do you balance that?

SPEAKER_03 57:42

Well, um I I've been in a relationship with Satala Pram longer than I have been my husband.

SPEAKER_05 57:50

And anyone that doesn't know that, that's Satala. They do know.

SPEAKER_03 57:55

No, Satala Pram is an anti-depressant, anti-anxiety um tablet. So, you know, I I I am a positive person and I try and be very, very optimistic, but I do struggle with anxiety. Okay. Big time, not so much depression, um, more more so anxiety. Um, and I do, you know, as I say, I I'm so um Bobby was meant to be with me, but he has exacerbated my anxiety. I think I had an anxious disposition anyway, and he he has heightened that definitely.

SPEAKER_05 58:24

Yeah. Um would you say as you sat here now and you're talking about it, do you feel clamping up when you're doing it? It's gonna sound really fucking evil. And I don't mean anything.

SPEAKER_03 58:34

No, no, I know what you mean. No, I I don't I don't necessarily find it hard to talk about. Um I don't know. Do you I don't know if you ever find this, but I just I don't want to be a burden on anybody.

SPEAKER_05 58:48

Just me. So one thing I've learned with my mental health struggles, and you know, I've been very open and honest on this show about what I've been through. I will never hide away from that. I would rather talk about it and make sure people understand what I'm going through and where I've been, yeah, than them assume that everything's just overshadow, yeah, absolutely. I've never I've never took antidepressants, uh, and people have said I think it would help you. Um I've been up there, the doctors told me to, and other people haven't, and that's fine. Um but I find working out really helps me. 100%. Sham will say to me, You're not in the gym for a day.

SPEAKER_03 59:29

Adam does the same thing.

SPEAKER_05 59:30

And she'll go, goose fucking go. But it's not her being nasty, she just knows that it's my and she's the same, not the depressive way, but she has fallen in love with the gym. Good. She she she looks incredible, she's weird her ass off. Um, you know, I I couldn't I can't praise her enough for what she's been through and now she's come out of the other side. But it it I asked the question about what the hardest moment is because when we talk about businesses, we talk about the great stuff.

SPEAKER_03 59:58

Yeah, of course we do.

SPEAKER_05 59:59

But and sometimes the hardest moment is what spurs us to make a business. Absolutely, right? Absolutely, and we need to normalise that. Yeah. As a as a generational thing, this shit you see on Instagram and this this portrayal that we see of everything's hunky dory, it is bollocks.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:17

Yeah, I agree. That is bollocks, and I'll tell you what else is bollocks. Um, this like what do they call it? A grind set. Grind set.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:25

Yeah, it's like the wake up at four, grind and then work.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:29

Hustling 24-7 is cool and something we should all aspire to do. And if you're not doing it, then you're not working hard enough. That's bollocks.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:38

That is bollocks. That is this week's bollocks motto. Because I've seen people on LinkedIn, certain ex-aprentice winner who just know what, fair dudes, he admits where he went wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

Yeah, shut up. Shut off, isn't it? I'm day off.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:52

And this is the thing, people see Instagram and Facebook, and they go, Oh my god, I want to be like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:58

Oh my god, I want to be on the private check. Like I said in the last episode about Cristiano Ronaldo line on my city, none of them, none of them they care about the way about failing multiple times. Yeah, exactly. Embrace failure and fail hard because it's the best thing you can do. And failing be prepared to fail as a parent at times as well. Definitely. Or because it's not it's not easy.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:16

No, definitely not. And I I I and I have failed, you know, big big time. Of course we have. Like I've failed certainly, I feel like I failed as a mum at first. I certainly failed as a wife at first, um, when we were first married in in my last job.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:31

And and was that because of the time you were spending in the old job?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:35

It was, yeah, yeah. And as a s and I started this job and it was a management role, and um hadn't hadn't managed a team before, and I really wanted to. Um, and I said to Adam, give me a year. Like this is gonna be tough for a year, but I need to throw myself into it. So just just give me a year. And did he give me a year? He was a fucking saint. He for well, it was over a year in the end, it was I think it was about 18 months. He was mum, dad. So you so he was incredible.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:04

So the way to see this is you didn't fail. You you you had to learn a lesson.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:10

So you didn't fail.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:11

No, I didn't fail.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:12

But I like but the fact that you uh sometimes you saying that yeah is enough to make your brain switch its mind, you switch your own mindset by saying things like that. I say to Sean, I failed miserably last year with where we were. Yeah, yeah. And everyone says, How did you fail? Yeah. You were raising a family, you were running a business, but you don't see that at the time.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:31

Yeah, do you? No, of course not. And I think I think as well, I think everybody, everybody is their own worst critic. Like, I am so hard on myself. I'm so hard on myself, and it can be for the most stupid things, but when you are actually in the thick of it thinking, oh my god, like I'm not doing well in my job, which is what I set out to do. I'm really, really putting a lot on my husband, and our marriage is strained as a result. I've got no relationship with my son because he didn't want me. Just wanted Adam for that 18 months. It was horrible, horrible. Um, and like the dog, bless her. She wasn't, she was, she was just a chore. Do you want to be like, fucking hell, I need to get the dog out. And I didn't enjoy family life.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:15

But fast forward to now and look at what you've absolutely. But if you look at what you've built, you you've taken everything that you've learned and you've made a business that stands by the values that you didn't want to be. Absolutely. That is more commendable than someone saying, I went wrong and I'm still there now. Absolutely. Absolutely. People should listen to that and go, do you know what? Fuck it, I'm gonna do it. I hope so. What what advice would you give to anyone that is looking to set up a business?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:37

Um, I would just um I think it was on your I think someone mentioned it on a previous episode, but feel the fear and do it anyway. Jen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:46

And she said buckle up.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:48

Yeah, yeah. Buckle through, in it. Absolutely, like it's not gonna be easy.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:52

Um well if it was easy, everyone would do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:54

Exactly, exactly. You know, um, but just have a go. Everything leads somewhere. Absolutely. And uh something I read just before the marathon sort of freaking it, um, someone had put um there is there is no evidence that you can't do this. And I think that is applicable to setting up a business as well. You know, there's no evidence that you can't go and do that and make a whopping big success out of it.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:19

Absolutely. And the only thing stopping you from achieving what you want to achieve is your own mindset. Absolutely, yeah. If you wake up and you say, I can't do that, then you will not do it. Absolutely. And I'm guilty of it. Yeah. And these people that go, I couldn't do that. Have you tried?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

Nah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:33

Then how do you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:34

I just couldn't.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:36

But what if you woke up and said, I'm gonna give it a go? Yeah. And you were really, really good at it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:42

Everything changes. Everything changes in mind over my all the time. And I always say to people that unless you're willing to actually try it, you're just gonna keep making excuses. Absolutely. I get some people struggle with the confidence aspect, and some people struggle with physically doing it because it scares the living day out of them. But embrace the fear. Absolutely. Embrace that fear, yeah. Like the first time you step into a car and learn to drive, you can't drive. I I look at it like a child learning to walk.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:09

Right? A child will fall down or get back up.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:14

Over and over.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:15

Until they they finally figure out what them feet them things do. Yeah. Imagine trying something once and saying, oh shit, they're fucking. Yeah, I'm not doing that. Yeah. Yeah. And not to go too deep before we finish, but do you know where the richest place in the world is? Go on. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:28

The richest place in the world.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:30

Yeah. Where most money in the world is.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:32

Um China.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:35

Graveyard. It's full of people who have aspirations and dreams that could not fulfil them, who were too scared to take a chance.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:45

Ooh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:46

So whenever you're feeling like you can't do it, go and visit someone there.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:50

Because every person, every person in the fucking ground wanted to do something. And I know you're gonna go, oh my god, that's deep. Yeah. That's all I ever say to myself.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:57

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:57

If I don't try that if I don't try this podcast, I'll never know.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:01

Yeah.

unknown 1:06:02

No.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:02

Yeah. Uh finally before we go, Sarah, your business partner. Yeah. What's she like to work with? She's the fucking best.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:08

We are which who's good cop and bad cop? Um hmm. Nina wasn't necessarily good and bad, but if I had to label it, Sarah's bad and I'm good.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:19

Is she the is she the more authoritative? Like, no, that's what's happening.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

Yeah, absolutely. We are. It's it's really weird. We are yin and yang. Yeah. We are so different in so many ways, but we are so the same in so many others. And um Sarah, in fact, like she's she's one of those people that I've actually, in the grand scheme of life, I've not known her for that long. Um, but she said, I can't remember who we're talking to, but she said something like when when we met and we we really hit it off like immediately. Um, and she said to someone, you know, when when me and Sophie met, I was my my thoughts were, oh man, where were you when I was five?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:54

You know, and and it's like I think a few people will listen to this go, can I be your friend?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:59

Yeah, can I please be your friend love? Be friends, but no, she's brilliant. We we we get on beautifully, we have such a laugh. Our mantra internally is friends first, always. Um that doesn't mean to say that there, you know, there isn't friction, but good friction in the business. Of course, she has ideas, I have ideas. We've always got the same end goal. How we would go about them might be slightly different, but we will always hash it out, find a way, and we can both be completely open and honest with each other.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:33

I mean, I my business partner's wife.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:35

And that's had some of the most challenging moments. A few people have actually said to me, You and Sean need to do a podcast together. Yeah, you do. And you just both ask each other questions. I'd like, we'll end up fucking killing each other. I'd love to get I'd love to get Sarah on eventually. She's great. I'd love to get her on and get her side of things because and learn how she's come around this because I'm always interested in knowing people's journeys, and I think a lot of people are as well. But um, but no, I mean that's that's been amazing. Have you got any questions for myself?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:03

Um I don't think so. There's nothing nothing burning, just keep doing this. It's mint. I really enjoyed it. I was so nervous, but it's been so fun. Yeah, and uh yeah, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:17

Have you got any questions for the next guest?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:19

Who's the next guest?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:20

Marcus.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:21

What does Marcus do?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:23

Well, he has let's just say Marcus has completely changed his life around. He is um a drug support. He um he's completely changed his life around. He now works support networks all across the UK for uh uh recovering drug addicts and alcoholism.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:38

Incredible. Um bloody hell, I've got so many questions for Marcus. I'd like to know I'd like to know what what was what's his why? What was his wake up? What was his turning point? Because that sounds like he was in a dark place.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:54

He is incredible, and I'm really important. But uh I'm really lucky because I've been I've had so many guests on this show that have just been fantastic and um you know it's such it's something I've always wanted to do, and I don't know how many people listen and tune into it. Uh I'm not as big as the others, but on my planet, I don't even want it to be that big. I just want to get people onto a reel. So yeah, I'll put that down for him to ask you.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:13

Yeah, please do, and I'll be tuning in.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:15

Would you ever consider co-hosting an episode?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:17

I'd love to. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:19

Brilliant stuff. Cool. Well put it on in the books. Yeah, absolutely. Well, listen, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me. So, um, yes, everyone. So that is the end of another amazing show. Uh, thank you, Sophie, for joining us today. I hope um this has been insightful. And I think I'd like to just say anyone that's listening to this who has gone through the same as Sophie or is struggling or needs support and guidance and help, please keep fighting. Keep asking the questions that you feel you need. Um, it's tough. Uh uh someone that's been through it myself, Sophie's been through it. It's not easy, but please be assured that the help and support is out there. You just need to keep fighting. Feel free to follow Sophie, follow a business page. What is it? We are we are proper.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:03

We are proper, yeah. And we're on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:06

Yeah, uh any recruitment needs required, please feel free to drop these guys a message. They are fantastic. So, yeah. Okay, well, that's uh that's another episode up uh over and out. Uh thank you for joining us and uh I will see you all soon. Cheers guys.