Episode 2: From Qualified to Stacked Out

So, you’ve got your qualification, your insurance is sorted, and your table is ready. Now what?

Welcome to A Joint Effort, the show where we pull back the curtain on all things therapy. In this episode, we look at what it actually takes to build a successful manual therapy business. Join us, your hosts Becky Tyler and James Crossley, as we share the highs, the lows, and the outright confusing parts of our journeys from clinic rookies to thriving business owners.

We aren’t teaching textbook theory here. We’re sharing our real-world experiences—the marketing wins that filled our diaries, the business mistakes that cost us cash, and the hard lessons we learned along the way. Whether you're a physiotherapist, osteopath, massage therapist, or chiropractor fresh out of school, our experience will help you skip the trial-and-error and build a practice you love.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome back to our joint effort podcast with myself, Becky Tyler, and my co-host James Crosley.

SPEAKER_04 0:08

Hello, hello.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

We have had a really good response from the first podcast, which is nice.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Which is nice, it's great.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

So, and everyone's asking me, when are you doing your next one? And I don't know. And I get two minutes, and when James gets two minutes.

SPEAKER_04 0:24

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

But we're back. And um one of the common themes that I've been um getting asked to talk about is how do you build a business as a manual therapist? Because whether you're osteophysio, sports massage, sports therapist, um, you know, I think we've all gone through different training, but the the business side isn't always covered. Um, so you get all these amazing skills and then you get let loose, and then it's right, now you're gonna go and have to build a business. So um I don't know about your your course, but I did um why did I start? I did level uh my sports massage qualification first. Uh there was no business skills in that at all. Um, and then I did my five-year osteopathy degree, and I think we had a day on it. Maybe we disgust um elements of maybe bookkeeping more than actually building a business. I'm not, I I don't really remember them giving us any any good information on that, really. I was already you know building my business in the background alongside my uni work, um, but no one has ever actually given me any top tips or um advice on building a business. Um, how about you?

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Yeah, it's interesting. I sort of as a manual therapist I did um osteopathy and I trained in New Zealand, and um I remember vividly on the course um they said um, oh, is there anything else on the course that you would like to see? Is there anything we're missing out on? And I sort of put my hand up and I said, Um, well, maybe business development, you know, growing growing a business. And um I got some quizzical looks. Um, the lecturers looked at me sort of like I'd grown an extra head, and and then sort of quickly moved on and said, Well, any any uh you know serious suggestions, and and we weren't given any sort of um sales training, any business development training. Um it really wasn't covered, and I was really surprised at that because you can't be a good manual therapist if you haven't got a business, and you know it's that it's the hard practicalities of it, is that you've got to find patients and clients, and and that's not easy, it's it's hard. Um, I always felt like I was very fortunate and lucky um in the fact that I started before manual therapy, I started as a personal trainer in a large commercial corporate environment in which selling was embedded in the culture. Yes, um, and so actually uh there was when I started, it was for a company called Homes Place that were later bought out by Virgin, and they had something called the Academy, which was a um a training base um in London where they covered modules, and one of those was sales and marketing. And so we got we got some sales advice, um, some advice on rapport building, talking to people, how to sell yourself, um, not necessarily on business development and starting an independent business, of course, but I really felt that my my my sort of introduction into the commercial world in that type of gym environment was really really helpful. I had to learn to be able to go up to people and ask them for money. That was that was useful because you've got to be able to do that. Um, but in terms of manual therapy and osteopathy, none at all, which was you know tough. So you just had to go out and start. Um and I remember basically I remember um I came back from New Zealand and I just had to start work and build build a business from scratch, and that was very scary. Um, and so I um just gave it a go.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Yeah, exactly the same as you. A lot of my skills have come from the fitness industry, it has not come from the courses that we've done.

SPEAKER_04 4:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

So, with that in mind, then my well, my business started out in my living room. Uh I had quite a small house, it was uh semi-detached. Um, you walked through the front door, got my little kitchen on the right, and went through a little corridor into my lounge diner. So my husband, bless him, every time I had patience, he had to go upstairs and sit and camp out upstairs in our bedroom because I took over the whole of the day.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

The more we talk, the more I get the impression your husband's a bit of a legend and he's quite understanding. As I get the impression on uh speaking before we started this, it's absolutely my person is massive. Not met him, but I think we'd get on.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Well, he was very quick in uh building me a little outhouse.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

I get the impression his building skills have been have been outsourced and used a few years.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Very useful, yes. Um, so he built me a little a little room. Yeah, um, so that's where I did my sports massage from. Yeah, um, but I didn't have a waiting area, so people, when they were coming, I had to make sure that had a gap in between each patient. I couldn't run obviously back to back. Um, you know, I didn't when it was in the house, we had the downstairs toilet, whereas when I had the the little shed, I didn't have access to a bathroom, so I had to make sure they could go into the house. So I meant to make sure that my husband again blessed him, that was not wandering around the house in just these boxes.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Um you know, because but you have to think about these things, you know, like where is where is your patient gonna go? You know, where are you to if you need the toilet, where are they going to, where are you gonna wash your hands, you know, and things like that. And and then that's when I then um moved from my little outhouse. I then started room room rent um and renting a room above a CrossFit gym in Munsfield, um, of which again my my poor husband came into play with his building skills and helped me create the room and the space into what I needed.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

There is a consistent theme going on here.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

There is a massive consistent theme. I could not do half of what I've done without my husband, bless him. Um and then and then it's kind of grown from from there, really. You know, we moved house, uh, we had an integral garage. I come I converted. My husband converted to the integral garage, you know, and it's built and built and built from there. But ultimately, my point is I started my business very small. I started it at home in my lounge where I had no overheads, um, and I could work alongside, which is very difficult when you're building a business as well, because you become very accommodating to your clientele. You know, they want Monday at, you know, one wants Monday at 12 o'clock, and then the next one doesn't want, you know, you don't get any more patients till say six o'clock. You've got a gap there, yep. You know, but you don't want to turn these patients away, these clients away. So, of course, you try and accommodate as best you can, and trying to then balance work alongside building your business because you don't want to put all your eggs into one basket because you've got bills to pay.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Um, so you know, did you start very similar or did you go straight into renting a room?

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Um, so um god blind. I mean, it depends, it takes you back, it depends where where you start. So obviously, I was I was working in a gym, and I was just realizing that I was getting more and more interested in the in the therapeutic side of what I was doing. And so then, and then I think the the first thing when you were talking that that struck me was that um once you decided what you want to do, the next biggest question is deciding where you're gonna do it. And I think location is huge, you know. You go, right, where am I gonna work? And I've worked in lots of different places. I've worked out of a running shop, um, I've worked in a Pilate studio in New Zealand, I've worked in um someone else's practice, I've done all sorts of things, and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, but I've learned that location is important. Um, you know, I started I started part-time just dabbling, and then it built from there, and I realized that I really enjoyed it, and that's when I did the further course. So um, but when I came back from New Zealand, yeah, I was literally starting from scratch, and again, you have to answer where I was lucky in the fact that a colleague who I knew from Fitness was had a studio, and so I started working. He said, Look, I'll get you busy, don't worry, I'll sort it out, come rent a room off me. So I did that, but I knew I wanted to have my own practice, and I found a little room in Southwell. And I think that's one of the biggest things is the risk, it's the cost involved, and so it was little room and it was cheap. And I was basically, if I don't take that, I'll if I don't do this, I'll never do it. Yeah, so I and you've got to you do have to take a risk. I think that's something that a lot of people struggle with is the risk of no of paying money out without any guarantee of money coming in. Yes, and I think if you are the sort of person who's gonna have your own business, you need to cope with that, and that is not easy. I think the great thing with what we do as manual therapists is I do not think you need to be that successful to be able to manage and cope. You know, um you can charge enough to make a living, and you don't need that many clients, um, so that's good, but you need to be able to make that jump from having a wage and low risk to basically not having a wage and paying out money, and that's a big thing. Yeah, that's a big thing.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

Risk you you hit in the nail on the head, really, because I mean I started out risk-free, like I said, in my lounge and built gradually um because I did have I managed to get a part-time job uh teaching swimming. So it was, you know, nice, nice hours that fit around what I was doing. But like I said, because of where I was, it w it was quite constraining, really. I you know, I struggled to to build it any bigger. Um, and then as my business grew, each time it's always that you're you need to take a risk. You cannot build a successful business without taking risks.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Correct, absolutely right. And you you don't get rewarded for the work, you get rewarded for the risk you take.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Yeah. Um but also I think as well, if you've got that pressure on you, you've got to make it work.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Oh, you need the fear. Unfortunately, you need a bit of fear, it that you need that kind of fear of failure that says this this has to work, and um you know, um, and it's it's that fear of failure and the consequences that makes you push hard, I think.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Um ultimately, what are you prepared to lose? That's what somebody once told me. Oh wow when I took this place on where we are now. Now, bearing in mind before I took this place on, I was working at home myself, and I got a second room at Ransomwood where I've got a couple of people working for me. Um, and I was going from that to here, and the rent here was five times more than where I was. So it was a massive job. And uh a guy who's very high up in business who has helped me a lot, literally turned around to me and went, Beck, what are you waiting for?

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Exactly right. You know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

If this is what you're passionate about, you have to take a risk on what's the worst that's going to happen.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

That's a great question. You know, what's the worst that can happen?

SPEAKER_02 12:22

And what are you prepared to lose? Yeah, yeah. You know, so you have to look at it because there's money involved. I had to put a lot of money down for a bond, and obviously you're thinking about rent each month and how am I going to bring that in? But I moved into this place, um, bearing in mind it was just myself and a couple of others. Um, we moved in in the June, and by and then I found out I was pregnant. Brilliant. Um, and I gave birth to my first child in the February, and we went into lockdown in the March. So if I can manage to take this place on, welcome to business, yeah. And have a baby.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

I mean it's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

And COVID happened, and we're still here and we're still pushing forward. You know, it can happen, you've just got to be prepared to put the hours in. Because that's another thing that people don't tell you as well. Being self-employed, everyone's like, oh, you've got the freedom to do what you want. No, you haven't.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

No, I think I think someone said, you know, um, why am I self-employed? Is what you know, uh instead of working 40 hours, I get to choose the 60 hours that I work every week. It's a bit like that, you know, it's it's it's not for the faint-hearted, unfortunately. And um, but I wouldn't change it, it's it's kind of worth it. 100%. The one thing I I would learn working for someone else is uh, or especially working for a large corporate, is they'll never pick they'll never pay you your worth. They have to extract some of your worth out of you, and so you know, there's there's no there's no other way around it. Sometimes you've got to make that jump.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah, I'm I couldn't wait for the man anymore.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

No, you become unemployable, unfortunately. That's the other thing, is once you've that's the other hard thing about manual therapy is once you become successful, um, if it doesn't work out, there's there's no jobs, you know, there's not many people, not many people advertising for an osteopath. So it's it's it's it's tough, but I'd say it's worth it. Yeah, it's worth it.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

So, okay, we've discussed how hard it is. The listener's probably thinking, okay, great, but how do I actually get kayaks through the door? How do I get patients through the door? So that is something, if I'm totally honest, that I'm constantly trying to learn myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um some of the top tips. So I let's go with um how how do you get patients through the door? What's your top?

SPEAKER_01 14:45

So my biggest part. So I again working in fitness, I I spent some time developing other people's businesses. So my job is to help other trainers develop their business. And um there's a there's a few things. Um yeah, you do need a bit of charisma, you know, you do need to be charismatic, unfortunately. And so there's there's there is that.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Just be able to talk to people, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

And um if I was giving you if I was giving you someone advice, I would say you kind of the get the game here is number one, is to let as many people know what it is you do as possible.

SPEAKER_04 15:23

Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

How do you work? How do you how do you contact as many people as possible and say, this is what I do, these are the problems that I solve. Can I help? And that might be, and there's lots of different ways of doing that. Um, once you've got your little room and your couch, I'll tell you what, it's gonna get pretty quiet if you sit next to the phone. Yeah, um, so you've got to get out and you've got to let people know what it is that you do, and a lot of that work will be done without getting paid for it. Um, you have got to walk down the high street, hand out leaflets, talk to people, go to people's shops, um, tell people what you do. Of course, there's social media, but everyone's saturated with that, so you can't you have to do it, but you can't just do that. But you have to think of every which way you can, whether it's advertising in papers, whatever it is, you've got to find a way of letting people know what it is that you do, and then after that, I think once you do meet them, um, you've just got to do a good job, and then they will tell other people, yeah. Um, and I think those word of mouth, of course, so you've got to do a good job. Um, but those two things letting people know what it is you do and doing a good job is essentially the essence of it.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Yeah, one understand. You've got to create your own opportunities, yeah. Put yourself out there. You'd hit the nail in the head with you know, sitting behind, you know, sitting next to the phone and waiting for it to ring. You might get the odd person that finds you um, you know, through the advertising you've done, um, small amount, but ultimately network.

unknown 17:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Get to meet all the people that do what you do, get to meet your your colleagues in the room, you know, the the building that you're in. Uh go in, speak to the personal trainers that are around you, you know, they're seeing people on a regular basis with you know aches and pains, etc. You can have I had um you know quite a few personal trainers that I work with, um, so that you know, when they get to a point that they're like, you know, you need to go in, have some treatment, yeah, you know, maybe do some free treatments. Completely you've got to be prepared, like you say, to work for free. Yeah um, but not to undervalue yourself, but to get what you're doing out there, you know, and to build that rapport. Once you've got that network and people know that you're good, it will start flowing in. It will. But to get that going, you can't just rely on social media or a website or even leaflets. Like leaflets are great to some degree, but a lot of the time you spend a lot of money and effort on printing something, you go around posting it. And I don't know about you, but every time I get leaflets, they just go straight in the bin. I don't even look at them really. On occasion, I might look at something, but you might send out say 500 leaflets and only get one or two phone calls. That's the reality.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

I've always said that if I started from scratch again and had to start again, what could I A, could I do it? And B, what would I do? And I've always said to myself, if I need to, I will take my couch, stand in Market Square in Southwell, and I will treat people for free until I am round.

SPEAKER_04 18:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

And that will work. I know it will work. Absolutely. It will be, it might be mildly, I might feel like it's what's a bit beneath me, a bit degrading, or it might be a little bit embarrassing. But if I do that, if I've got a banner and I go out with my couch and I go in the middle of the street and I start advertising, it will work.

SPEAKER_04 18:55

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

And so it's just a matter of what are you willing to do? If you're if you've got the fear and you're you're willing to do it, you'll go and do it. I've always been surprised. I've brought people into my clinics on occasions, and they've expected me to build their business for them, and they've not really gone out and told people what it is they do, and then complained that they've not been busy enough. Yeah. And I've never quite understood that. Um, because you know, you just have to be willing to do what it takes.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

And if you do that, you'll be fine. No problem at all.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Absolutely. Be good at what you do, keep on your CPD, and then yeah, like you say, get out there. Like think about where your patients are coming from. And we think about the type of people that we we treat. Everybody. We treat everybody. You know, we think like sports massage, you think oh sports people, but actually the amount of sports people that we have coming through the door is a small minority in comparison to the general public that are sitting for long hours, you know, repetitive jobs, yeah, you know, those type of people, uh, maybe getting a little bit into the older population as well. You know, getting stiff, achy joints. Um there's loads of people and they're from everywhere. So you you like you said, get out there, go to Sherwood Pines. Absolutely. If you're not in Sherwood Pines, know where we are, there's a local um what would you call it? Local forestry. Um where there's park run.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Oh, well, that's right. I mean it's right.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Do a do a walk run, do marshal at the park run with a big t-shirt that says follow me for a free sports massage or follow me for you know, and tag me in and and then you know, you've got to, like you say, once you start, if you believe that you are good at what you do, and you do do a good job.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

These things are important, absolutely. Absolutely, these things are very important. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

You know, so yes, you might have to do the first one, and you might there might be people out there that go, you know, well, that's that's undervaluing your yeah, your product. Well, yes, it is. Once you've got a product, yeah, you know, you've got to get a business to start with, you've got to get out there, and that is certainly a very good way of doing it.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

I mean of course there's important things, of course there's more to it than this. I mean, there's you know, I think I think you've gotta be very concise about what it is you do. What what's what's the the nature of the person that you can help, you know, what what is your philosophy, how do you approach things? You need to be able to encapsulate that in a short sentence, and um you know, so you have to think clearly about what it is you do and who you can help, and then you have to go out and tell people somehow, um however that may be. Um, you know, so that so it's it's not it's not as easy as it sounds. We're we're sort of making it sound simple. There are other things you've got to think about. You've got to be intelligent about your approach. And I think something else that resonated with me when you spoke, Becky, was about finding a mentor. That's something, that's something that people neglect. We've got a funny attitude on coaching in this country that we need to have advice from people or listen to people, or even, God forbid, pay for someone to give us advice. But I think actually finding someone that you respect who can look outwardly and just coach you on what it is you're thinking and just talk you through some of your fears and nud you in the right direction is very important as well. So, you know, go and find someone that's done it, right? Go and find someone who's done it and ask them how they did it and could ask them to explain to you what you should do next. Um it does you do not have to reinvent the wheel.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Right. So um and there's plenty of patients that go around. Oh, yeah, I mean look at how many hairdressers we've got.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Absolutely right. In Southwall, it's I think it's 95% hairdressers in Southwell.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

So there's plenty of patients, and the thing is one patient will come see you, you know, because they like you. You know, um, whereas another patient might go and see somebody else because they they like them. And it's the same, you know, there's I've said it when I say on a regular basis, you know, you can have 10 osteos, 10 kairos, 10 physios, whichever, any profession, 10 of seeing the same patient, and they're all going to take a different approach in getting them better. Absolutely. But it's like when you go um somewhere in the car and you put your satinov on and you put where you're going, and it gives you three options. Yeah, there's three different roads, you're still gonna end up in the same postcode. Absolutely. It's just gonna depend on which way you want to go. Absolutely. Um and there's nothing wrong with that. Um, and I suppose that's a little bit the same in business, but ultimately so far I think we've got you've got to be prepared to take a risk.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Correct. Number one.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

You've got to be prepared to put the hours in.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Yes, you do, in many different ways.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Yeah. You've got to get out there, network.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Yeah, find advocates, people who people with their own, yeah, their their own networks that networks that uh trust them, get them on board, and they will market for you and they will send people your way. So find advocates for your business.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Yeah, which all includes you word of mouth, basically.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Um, the other thing as well, we mentioned briefly is obviously social media, um, and I suppose Google, you know, getting found that way, the traditional way, good old website and social media. Website, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Um, I don't know about you, but one of the things, you know, if I want to find something, then I will often go onto Google, and uh obviously there are other internet search engines out there, but it just seems to be always Google now, doesn't it? They have monopolized that one. Um, but I'll go on to Google, I'll type on what I want, and then obviously, you know, it'll give me options these days as well. I'm always mindful that you've got your ads at the top. Now you can. I personally have never done any Google ads. I find them very expensive, and up until this point, I've grown without them. Um, I don't know if you've done any Google Ads, James. I'll let you discuss that in a second. Um, but there's there is benefits of doing Google ads because obviously it gets you at the top of that search, doesn't it? Then you've got your natural um listing, organic listings. So that's where Google will find your website. Uh, and if it's what you know, osteopathy in Edwin Stow, which is obviously where we are, you know, it will bring us up in that search naturally. Um, but it for me as well, it goes past that point, and then you go onto the website, and then the website needs to be for me, it needs to be a good website if it's old looking, if the information's not there, if it's hard and clunky, um, then you can lose people at that point as well. Um, so another thing you need to be thinking about is getting a good website, and you don't need to spend loads of money on a website, you don't need to get somebody to design one. Um, you can get like Wix, for example, I think do free sites. That's where I started, and I got some good results from that. I think if you're wanting to get more and more people, then you do tend to need to then build a website because uh Google can give me a little bit, or it's just another copy and paste website, so you need to be mindful of that. But from what people are landing on, I think it just needs to be, you know, it needs to look good. It needs it needs that's a selling point for you there. Um, how about you?

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Yeah, um I've never paid for Google Ads. I mean, I it's uh um I've got a colleague who won't mention his name, um, but um he's got osteopath, but I think his background before being an osteopath was in um online marketing, and so he kind of cornered um a market in Bridgeford. I think if you put in osteopathy in that in his area, I think he covered about top three or four landing searches. He he was very good at that sort of stuff. So I think he redeveloped a business um off the back of doing that. So I definitely think it makes a difference. I personally um haven't overinvested in that. Like I say, I think I've tried to get a um a website that looks um depart and looks like professional, it's a bit like a second shop front. Um, but I think you can overinvest in these things and it can become like a whole new job. And so you've got to find a balance that's right for you. I've seen some very good ostrapaths and very successful ostrapaths with with pretty dreadful websites, quite frankly. I've looked at them and my god, they're poor. So that's been that's not been their primary route to market. It might be yours if you're into that. I think it's another avenue if you're struggling. Um, you know, I don't think you need to overinvest in these things, but they're certainly helps, yeah. Yeah, exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

It's having that 360 in. You've got really good network, really good word of mouth, and really good thriving business, it will thrive without a website.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

Absolutely right.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

I think um this day and age a lot of people like to see before they come. Sometimes they like to know what's going on. Yeah, um, so I think sometimes that just it like you say, it helps. So it's like having that 360. You know, if you're starting out, you've got a nice website, you've got you know, social media shows what you're doing, and you're networking. It's all about pillars. The more pillars you've got in place, yeah, the more the more people are going to hopefully find you.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

I mean one of the things I always do with every patient. Um, one of my I normally they arrive, I say hi, how are you doing? I introduce myself, I say come straight through, how's your day going today? Just to make a bit of polite chat. I always ask them how um they got here today, have they travelled far? And then my next question after that is always, so how did you hear about me?

SPEAKER_04 29:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Um, and I'm truly interested. I want to know how did you arrive here? And more often than not, it's word of mouth. Someone's told them about me. Some on them, sometimes they've seen a paper article or they've gone through online. More often than not, they've been referred to me from a someone else. Hopefully, two or three people. In fact, that's what it's got now in South where I am. People will kind of go, Well, actually, it's funny because two or three people recommend you. And um, but I always ask, and that's a key question, is you know, how do you how do you hear about me? Yeah, you know, and that will give you a good insight to where your your um base is coming from. Um, and if you're doing a good job, most people will say, actually, I was given your number by a friend. You know, if and I think if um and I think that's that that's the your best advertising, but I you know it'll be a blend. It'll be a blend.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Absolutely. 100% and I think that's what you've got to be mindful of when you're starting out is don't spend you could ease you could easily spend far too much money in this marketing area.

SPEAKER_04 30:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

Um and ultimately, I think the the what we're trying to get across now is that it is word of mouth. Like if I pull off a report, we we use a system um for yeah, a booking system that sends um emails out um to ask them obviously why they're coming, etc. And in that email it does ask how did you hear about us? And the same we will ask that question, and when we pull off reports, it is always around 70% of word of mouth.

SPEAKER_04 30:50

Yeah, that's it. Um I'd agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

So going back to networking being one of the most powerful tools and getting people to know what you're doing, so you've got to get out there, you've got to like say, be prepared to do some unpaid work sometimes, but with the the bigger goal in mind.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Yeah, absolutely right. You should in fact you should seek out that unpaid work. I mean, you you should know what your community is, you should make yourself a valuable member of that community, let your community know about what you're doing, um, and um get out of the office, don't stand next to or sit next to the phone um with your fingers crossed um because you'll soon feel very anxious and alone because it's a it's a it's a quiet room with no one in it if you're by yourself. Yeah, um, but get out and um where are your patients gonna come from? They're gonna come from the this the high street next to you. Um so go go around, say hello to people and and um and then talk.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

Yeah. Um one of the things that we we do get quite a few from Google searches as well. That is the second one for us, right? Um, which is why I wanted to mention the website because I think sometimes you know people do go straight to uh the the internet. Yeah. Um I have just recently been on a conference though, and they are saying that things are changing now that AI is in place. And you know, all those that Google isn't always the main source of information now as well. Um so just to kind of uh a bit of a heads up and and thinking future-proofing, you've got you need to as well, when you're a business owner, be aware of what is happening, yeah. You know, and AI is is coming, it's here, it's getting more. Um, and for me, it's something that I'm not scared of. I'm just trying to jump on the yeah, jump on that train. Yeah, you know, you've got it. This is something that's really quite exciting, and how can we use this to help build our businesses as well? Um, so yeah, I don't I'm I'm no expert in that. So we'll uh I'll let you do your own research on that one as I'm doing mine. Um the other thing, as well, which I think a few people obviously think they've got to do loads and loads of social media. I don't know if anybody follows uh me and James on social media. I've got far too many accounts, it's it's a bit mental. So I've got uh a social media account for the the clinic, so BTST osteopathy, um, which uh is all about what we're doing, you know, treatment-wise, and all my team, and I try and get that so the whole team are on there at some point, and everyone's got a different avenue with it, it's hilarious because I I challenge everybody to do one post a week. Okay, it's like I'm pulling teeth, nobody likes doing this, okay. Um, but Nicola is full on, she thrives with social media. So if you follow our social media, you'll probably know who I mean by when I when I say Nicola. She's the one that does all the funny ones, and they're the ones that get all the likes. It's crazy, yeah. Um, but is it really growing my business? No, no, it does not. It that you know, her her funny TikToks do not bring in patients, however, what it does do in my mind is it everyone that follows us when they see us pop up, they go, Oh yeah, I need to book an appointment.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

I think that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

You know, we keep present, we keep in the minds of our current client list. Because if you're not rather than constantly ringing them and chasing them and all the rest of it, you know, you are just there in the background popping up, and they're seeing you, and they're like, Yes, I need to book an appointment.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

I think that's right.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Um, with our other one, so BTST Academy, obviously, that's a very different business. That's where we teach sports massage, dry needling, dry cupping, all the wonderful CPDs. So um I've done kind of a 360 on the social media of that, and I if I'm totally honest, it's hard work social media. You've got to be on it all the time, haven't you? And you know, um we try before we were just just being present again, you know, taking videos and photos and and things of what we've been teaching. Now I've actually employed someone to do my social media for me, yeah. Um, who's actually my photographer and videographer, so I've known him forever. Um and he's doing a really good job. He's coming in and he's helping me to because what I want to do is I want to do some teaching, I want to pass on my knowledge. Um, so we're doing a lot more of that on my social media now, whereas like snippets of information where you can actually, you know, people that are following us will get something from it. Yeah, um, and then there's my personal professional one as well, just to kind of build me as a brand. So there's a lot to social media, and it is constant. And I people might say that I'm going, you know, OCT, but that's the joys of having two businesses and being the face of the business. If it's just you and your business, then one is more than enough. Um, but it is hard. But for me, it's not something where I'm trying to it's not necessarily that I'm trying to get business from I am, but not as a direct sales avenue, it's more of a again networking. Yeah, it is a way of networking, it's a way of getting people to know who I am, who my businesses are, what we do, and how we can help.

SPEAKER_04 36:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Uh, so it's a form of network. Yeah. Um, what's your how's how's your social media? How's your social media?

SPEAKER_01 36:53

I I again I was really funny because I I'm the same as um Becky would like to get on some online training, and um, so you know, you look into this and you know, you hate doing it. And um I had a mentor for a little while, um, and basically he was like, James, you need to post more. What are you doing? And I was like, just supposed to be more supportive than this, but okay. It was really funny. We'd have these meetings, and it's like, James, it's like, James, you've done another mind map. Why didn't the mind map to post stuff? It was really quite amusing, anyway. Uh, I now have, and I was I wasn't really posting enough, and so I now have a girl who's now managing um my social media, making sure she's posting, she's making sure I'm getting some stuff to her, and she's posting stuff and reels or what have you. Um, you know, just so that it makes sure it happens and ticks away in the background, and you know, I've got you've got the clinic site, and you've got the kind of um your your personal brand site. I mean, it gets it gets silly, doesn't it? And you're doing all this stuff, and they've you've got time, and um, but like I say, it's a it's a soft investment that's kind of ticking away in the background that um you you don't expect anything from, but you keep it ticking. It's not my advice, it would not be go too mad on it, start with trying, but my other advice would say people want it to be social media to be quite organic, they want to know about you, they want to know about what's kind of going on. You don't need to write scripts, set up um film studios, you just need to have a chat on your phone and post it. Absolutely. Uh so don't you know, don't don't let um you know, just let go of perfectionism and just say something and put it put it online, you know. So um there we go.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Yeah, absolutely. One of my best performing social media posts was actually uh when I was down in so we provide uh massage therapists for the blend of triathlon.

SPEAKER_04 38:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Um I don't actually treat, I've got my therapists, I just run around like a headless chicken, make sure that it's all running smoothly. And we got a little bit of spare time, so the guys wanted me to show them how to do some stretching. And one of my best performing videos was actually that. So I got one of my other therapists, I was like, film, film me, do it. Yeah, I hate the film because you can't remember, I didn't wear any microphones, so the audio is not the best. We've had to do our best with the audio, um, but um, and I don't look the best. Typical woman. Um, but because you can see that I'm giving information and it's real, yeah, it's real and it's doing very well. So the more you can get of that, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

People don't like they won't see you, they want to see you, they don't want to be sold things, they just want a little bit of connection with who you are as a person. Yeah, and our brains are getting very good at distinguishing what is staged and what is a sales pitch, yeah, and what is an authentic representation of who you are. And people would rather just find out who you are, you know, they want to know the humanity behind you and the struggles you face and the experiences and your ideas, and so it can be short, sharp, just off the cuff, and then just post it. And if you do that lots, you'll get people who are interested in you, not what you're selling. And and I think that's the my advice with that.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

Absolutely. I mean, don't get me wrong, I do the odd one where I have to sell something. Do you know what? I hate it. I hate sales, I do hate sales, and I think one of the things as well, just on when you're building a business, uh, when we take on people, uh, so new therapists working for us. What I'll always say to them is that often there is an when we're building a business, there is an element of sales.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Oh, you like this? Is the other thing you are always selling yourself in everything, and it's it's not a small part, you've got to you've you've got to learn to sell yourself.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

But I don't see it as sales.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

No, it's not I I get you.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Does that make sense? Like when you think because instantly I hate being sold to, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

So, but when I'm talking to my patients, I'm not necessarily like if I don't think I need to see them, I will say I don't need to see you. You know, um, but often we do need to see them, you know. So don't be scared to tell your patient this is what you think is going on. Your patient's coming in and they've done something, and you know you're going to need to either see them again that same week, yes, or the following week, then you tell them and you get them back in. That's not sales, yeah, that is getting your patient better, and you've got to be confident in knowing that you're giving them your best advice, um, and that will always come true. You know, you there will your truth will come, you know, they know that you're not selling. If you feel awkward about it and it comes across awkward, then it feels like you're selling. Yeah, but just it's just what's going on. This is what we need to do. I'd like to do this, you know. And one of the things that we do here, uh, which might be a good tip for people that are listening, um, because we are busy, um, like my diary is often a minimum of two months booked up. Uh, in high peak season, it's three months booked up.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

I know this, I tried to get in with Becky now and again, it's uh it's a nightmare.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Um, so because of that, and because we're all busy, like Lee, my colleague, you know, she's a good couple of months in advance. Um, so what we do is when we get a new patient, we book them in, and then my team will ring them and say, right, we're gonna book five more sessions in, one a week. Okay, they don't pay for those sessions up front, they are provisionally booked in.

SPEAKER_04 42:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

I'm not saying they're going to need all five.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

They might need one, two, and three, and then we cancel four and five. Yeah, they might only need them fortnightly, so we'll do one, three, and five and cancel two and four.

SPEAKER_04 42:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Yeah. But with the in, and I know that once I start their treatment, I can continue to the treatment. There's nothing worse than seeing a patient and then going, right, I'll see you in three months' time.

SPEAKER_04 42:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

You know, and then they come for three months' time and oh, look at that, I've got to see you again in three months. You'll never get anyone better.

SPEAKER_04 42:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

So, one of the best things is know that, you know, and there's nothing wrong, even if you haven't got a three-month waiting list, you know, get them booked in.

SPEAKER_04 43:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Soon your diary is going to fill up a heck of quicker because you've just booked five like one a week for five weeks. Instantly, you know, you do that with 10 patients, you've got you know, five weeks with 10, you know, it and it starts to build, and then the more you become unavailable, the more your patients go, right, I need to book in. My patients now don't book their next appointment, they book their third or fourth appointment.

SPEAKER_04 43:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

And they always have three or four in the diary, which is why I'm constantly booked up for two to three months in advance. Yeah, you know. Um, so it's being savvy with it.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

These are key business skills, you know. Managing your workflow for you and your life is a key skill.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

I think managing that patient and saying no, I can't do that time, I could do this time.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Absolutely right. Being assertive will be. I think there's being assertive, which I think you know is a is a is a very difficult. Skill for people, which is you know, uh when you're being assertive, you you know, you're just getting the best result for both of you. Yes, and it's about knowing uh and also communicating to the patient and saying, right, this is what I think is going on, this is what I think you need, this is what I would like you or like us to do. How does that sound to you? All right, let's get you booked in for that. And then there's there's sometimes natural transition points where I find I'm going, they're going, um, you know, do I need to book you in again, or would you like to book in again? I think you could leave it actually if you wanted to, or I could book you in for follow-up just in case. And we're sort of negotiating a little bit, I don't mind that. And then some people, I'm like, you do not need to see me again, you're fine, let's leave that. Some people enter into um a maintenance uh type um scenario. Yeah, that's not for everyone, but but it can be useful, and people really value it, and so it's like, right, I'm I normally give a little spill, which is like, look, some people do like maintenance work. I you you might see me once every some people see me once a month, some people see me once every eight weeks. It it can vary, but it's I don't push it. Um, you don't need maintenance work, but if that is a good option for you, then let's go with that. And so again, you you develop these kind of skills and and and you manage your business and you manage their health. But my biggest advice would be um the best thing for your business, because it could be tempting to think, oh god, I need an extra patient in next week. Let's try and push it and get an extra person in for my benefit, not for theirs. The best thing you can do for your business is get people fit and healthy and well as quickly as possible, and then they will tell three or four other people that you did a great job for them, and then your business will grow. And that and um that's my biggest advice.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

Yeah, one of the things that with you saying about the maintenance thing, that often my patients will continue to see me, and I will say, you know, it that depends on them. I never, you know, we we'll try okay. Once we're we're good, I'll see you in four weeks, make sure everything's still where it needs to be. Yeah, in four weeks' time, you're still good, you've had no issues, perfect. I'll see you in six to eight weeks. Six to eight weeks, everything's still good, fabulous. We'll push it even further. Yeah, um, if in six uh six to eight weeks they come back and go, Oh back, I could start feeling it come back. Go, okay, we'll do six or five to six weeks this time because you've been good, like whatever point you started coming back, that's when I'll see you.

SPEAKER_04 46:25

Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

So that it we're being proactive, not reactive, because there's nothing worse than when a patient comes back and they've left it far too long and then it's taken even longer. Um, but ultimately, you know, I get some people that only see me once a year, yeah. You know, um, some people that see me once a month.

SPEAKER_04 46:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

It depends on what they do. A lot of the time, they're not gonna change the job, they're not gonna change who they are, they're not gonna change what you know. If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

I I I've got some people who want to who they only ever they ring me when they want to see me tomorrow, yeah, and they just want to get in. Oh god, here we go again, you know, and um you know they they ring immediately. Some people, oh, I left it a couple weeks, but hasn't got better, so now I've had to ring you. That's fine, that's not that's okay as well. Yes, you know, that's alright. Some people it's maintenance work, that can be the idea of maintenance for Ostropots in particular can be controversial.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Um, but I'm I'm I'm a big advocate of maintenance.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Everyone oh I have who has maintenance work feels better for it. Yes, um, and it's it's an investment like anything else. You know, I um as Becky will know, I transition a lot of people into movement, so I'm big into exercise. So some people I move people out of the clinic into the gym, um, and that that feels for me sensible. Um, but of course, I haven't got all my time in my diary, so I've got to manage that process. So it's you learn your own way, you earn your little you learn your own way. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

I think one thing I'd like to end this podcast on is after listening to us going on about lots of different ways of bringing people in and little tips that hopefully you've got along along that journey. Um if you're listening to this podcast, what is it that you want to build? Do you want to be on your own and build a successful business in, you know, a little a little room somewhere on the high street or within a business or a gym, etc. You know, is that where you see yourself? Do you see yourself working with athletes, which is a whole different ball game, and maybe that's a a a time for another podcast, or do you see yourself doing something similar to what I've done where I've built a big multi, well, I say big a successful practice? Yeah, you are successful, a multidisciplinary uh practice, yeah. Um, you know, where you've got other therapists, um, what is it where do you see yourself going? I didn't see myself in this situation, it has naturally gone from one to another to another, and it's built and built and built to the point that we're at now, and I'm still pushing forward, but I think that's just me. Um, if I was to be honest with myself um and with everyone listening, if I was on about just having that work-life balance and um earning a decent wage, I should have stayed in my garage at home.

SPEAKER_04 49:27

Isn't it funny? I know.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Um, because I would be earning more money there, which is interesting. I believe than I do here because the amount that I have to put back into the business to grow the business. But my plan is this is going to be my retirement fund.

SPEAKER_04 49:42

There we go.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

So we've got so I've my life plans have changed. But where we are, so everyone looks at this place, they look and go, Oh, you must be making loads of money, and obviously this, that, and the other. Unfortunately, when you're at the top, the amount of I do not get a day off. Um, I drove home from Scotland last night, I got in at 11 o'clock at night, and I'm back in today to do podcasts, um to and do an admin, and then Tuesday, Wednesday long days, and it just continues. I you don't get a day off. So, my best piece of advice right now what do you want your business to look like? And it can change. You doesn't need to stay as it is, mine's constantly changing, but have a think about what that looks like, what's important, how many patients do you need to see, and then hopefully some of the things that we spoke about today will help give you some ideas as to where to start. Um, one of the things I'm very I just also want to mention because I'm super excited about this. I have just launched a community, a mastermind online community, because we've you spoke about as well coaching and support and this, that, and the other, yeah, mentoring, and I think it is really big in other businesses, but not necessarily in ours. And I am constantly, I will come across something and go, I have no idea, and I need a mentor, I need someone that's been doing this, like cranial osteopathy for me is a brand new skill, and I've done my course, and now I'm left and I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing, you know, and I'm I'm now going to look for a mentor that can help guide my new skill. And I I think it's really difficult to find mentors unless you want to go and pay on big courses. Yeah, there's not really any like there's business mentors and life coaches, but there's not any specific, you know, industry hands-on. Have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? Which obviously we want to start um doing within this podcast as well. Um, so I've I've I've just launched a new community, it's called um BTST mastermind uh community. Each month is going to be um, I'm gonna do an hour of kind of you know, ask me anything. So if you have a a patient and you're like, I have no idea what's going on, you can come on to that that hour, and you know, even if you don't want to ask in front of everybody, you can send a message and we can discuss it. But the whole you might even not have anything, but listening to what other people are going through and what they're struggling with, and and get involved in the commun, you know, the conversation. Um, you might learn something from that, um, or be able to help somebody else. Um, and then we're also going to have an hour or so each month where I'll get a guest speaker on. So, you know, touching on the business skills that we spoke about today, you know, I can uh my plan is to bring on um an accountant, for example, and talk about bookkeeping. We don't get taught bookkeeping, yet we become self-employed and suddenly we've got to keep books, you know, and we don't know what we can and can't claim for. And there's a massive, you know, if you can get really good accountants, then you can get not so good accountants, you know. So it's it's finding, I think that's a really good skill to have, you know, SEO work, the engine optimization, again, all that business side, we're going to do those, but then we're also going to have um, you know, sessions with me where I'll discuss the shoulder or the knee or the lower back, etc. Um, or you know, obviously, James, you're all willing to come on board and do um some uh a session on rehab, um, because again, we learn how to treat patients, but we don't learn how to get them moving again in the gym. Um, so having that session with you and learning from you, so it's going to be like CPD every month, and every session as well is going to be recorded. So if you can't make it, you can go back and listen to it later on. Um, so I'm super excited uh about it. It's gonna be 35 pounds a month, which is it's less than it's less than a patient, and it's gonna hopefully really take your skills and your business to that next level. So if it is something that you're wanting to do, and if there's anyone listening out there as well that wants to become a mentor, at some point I'm thinking of trying to pee, you know, kind of link people up with people uh and do some sort of mentorship uh going forward as well. So if anybody's interested, you're sorry, like a body system, yeah. Um, because I think it's important, you know, just having someone to be able to have that conversation with. But um, but yeah, so that's a side note. So if you're excited and you have any questions on that, then obviously let me know uh and I'll send you the details. But watch out because this, you know, I've just launched it, so I'm super super excited.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

Exciting, fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

Perfect. Well, I think that's enough for us for today. We've uh we've spoken quite a bit, but like I say, if you have any questions at all about business, I mean we are not business uh gurus, we're not gonna sit here and say that. Um, but we've both got successful businesses, we've been there, we've done it, and we're still learning.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

So we've made a lot of mistakes.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

Absolutely, we've learned from those mistakes. So maybe if you have any questions, feel free to drop us a message. Um, do follow us on social media. Um, I mentioned mine earlier. Um, I've got Ostio, Becky Tyler, or BTST Academy. And James, what's yours?

SPEAKER_01 55:17

It's uh strivemovement uh.com is the website. Um, James at StriveMovement. Um, you know, usual social media sites as well. So yeah, you just you can get hold of me if you want.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

Perfect. Drop us a message, let us know what you think, and we'll see you on the next one. Thanks for listening.