THRIVE AS A BODYBUILDER - Luke Miller from J3U on Peptides, Training, Systems, and Strategies

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🎓 ABOUT THIS VIDEO
Explore how systems thinking, precise programming, and pharmacological aids can revolutionize your approach to long-term bodybuilding success. Join Nathan and Aubrey as they interview Luke Miller, a federation-level coach blending biomechanics, programming, and pharmacology to build durable physiques.

In this episode:
-The importance of viewing physique development as a systems problem, not motivation.
-How to structure volume, exercise rotation, and recovery over years instead of weeks.
-Insights on managing lagging body parts through volume and intensity adjustments.
-The role of peptides, OTC supplements, and drugs like GLP-1s in sustainable progress.
-Psychological aspects: identity, emotional regulation, and habit formation.
-Practical systems for daily routines, training rituals, and time management.
-The hierarchy of performance tools: from habits and training to peptides and advanced pharmaceuticals.
-Long-term implications of pharmacology, toxicity, and ethical boundaries in coaching.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This podcast right here is just for instrument purposes. I am not a medical doctor, not a nutritionist, or personal trainer. I am very fun qualified for the coaster. As riskling is so widely said, I don't shit about fuck. So don't trust me, don't listen to me. We're here just for chips and deals. If you trust me with health advice, that's just natural selection at work. Don't do drugs, always listen to your GP, and with that disclaimer out of the way, let's get started. Welcome everyone to another episode of the Opticast with me, Nathan and Meopric, where we break down high-level physique development as a systems problem, not a motivation first problem. In this episode, we're going to dive deep into the long horizon of muscle growth, how to actually build pro-level chests and backs, how to bring up lagging body parts without endlessly just chasing new programs, how to structure volume and exercise rotation over the years instead of just weeks, and how to think about PEDs and some newer tools like GLP1s in a way that favors durable progress over fragile, short-lived results. And today we're joined by someone very special, someone who lives in this exact intersection of biomechanics, programming, and pharmacology, Luke Miller. Luke is the owner of uh J3U, and he is the head educator at J3U University, where he's helped produce physiques from first-time competitors all the way to top Olympia finishers. I believe that happened twice, which is pretty impressive. And uh he's known for taking uh advanced athletes and actually moving the needle through precise training design, ruthless execution standards, and PD strategies that scale over years, like three to five year arcs instead of a single prep. His work has quietly shaped how a lot of high-level coaches think about back and chest training, volume landmarks, off-season PD models, and even the role of mental structure and identity in the long term of success in bodybuilding. We're very excited to uh pull that entire operating system out of his head today. So join me in welcoming Luke Miller.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Can we like get a round of applause for that intro? Like, that's uh one of the better ones I've I've had being in the guest on an episode. So thank you for that. That was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

That's awesome. That's so good to hear. Yeah, we put a we put a lot of thought. We actually, this is this is one of the most chill intros that I've had because I I put a lot of time into researching people and trying to know about everything, but you hide very well. You're you're not your stuff, your stuff is not out there, man. Your stuff is not out there. I had an interview with Hunter Henderson uh this week, and she like twice, she was like, How do you know that? But I I don't think I'm gonna get a single how do you know that from you this time.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Yeah, yeah. I I do a pretty good job keeping like personal life and business life separate, right? I I think it's just kind of in nature who I am. I'm I'm an extroverted individual, but I I I have like an introverted bone in me where I pull away if I get too overstimulated. So not overly surprising, but look, I'm excited. Like obviously, Nathan, we know each other and we've done some work together in the past. So I'm pretty excited to dive into the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Yeah. So so the first thing that I wanted to know, because I I know that you you joked a lot about like being a fat kid and just doing dumb stuff, and then eventually you ended up as being like the systems guy and the program design guy, right? Like, I want to understand a little bit of that arc, like how did you go from that, like being fat, and then you also had the bodybuilding time, like that the some things pulled you away from that, and then you went into the education side and just really building physiques and just large scale, transforming the whole realm of bodybuilding, not just one physique at a time.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Yeah, so it was kind of a it was kind of a weird situation for me. So, like if you if you circle back to like me as a high schooler, like being a fat kid, um, I played competitive golf for over 10 years. So, like that was my identity. That's what I thought I was going to do at a professional level. Like, that's literally my entire childhood was I went to school and I played golf. And school was kind of one of those things where like my mom had high expectations of me. But if there was something for golf that needed to happen, that happened, right? Like, that's kind of how my life was growing up. So very like dependent upon your work ethic effort, your work ethic, you can only blame yourself if you play poorly, type of a situation. Um, and it it kind of developed this like like, and this is where my first business started was like no off-switch mentality, was like no switch fitness, my original business. It it kind of developed this situation where like if my mom was sacrificing everything she was sacrificing for me to do that, like it kind of developed that. I got into fitness right before I lost my scholarships for golf. And then I had a meniscus tear, went through the rehab process and started to kind of fall in love with fitness. Didn't handle the meniscus tear very well. So I actually quit golf called Turkey and went kind of head into fitness and what ended up being bodybuilding. And so while I was in school, I did mechanical engineering, but I did research in the biomedical world. So I was doing like football helmet impact research, that kind of stuff. That's what got me into biomechanics, was like doing that. Um, was basically like taking the systems approach that engineering applies and then applying it to the problems of the human body from like a forces application perspective. So that kind of piqued my interest. I worked in engineering for like nine months and then went back to grad school and did exercise physiology. And that I did that degree at the University of South Florida, and uh, I did one semester at UF that changed the way that I looked at kind of how I'm competing this whole time. So I'm like going through my process of competing as an athlete. I already had the coaching business starting in 2016, but that there was one class, must uh an anatomy class, but it was an applied anatomy class at UF in grad school. This professor, I cannot remember her name to save the life of me, but she changed the way that I thought about movement. So, like a lot of biomechanics individuals think in isolation. So, like they think like, you know, especially in bodybuilder, like people who call themselves biomechanic specialists, they think of things in like a singularity type of situation.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Like a single muscle at a time. And it's the same thing happens with protocol design. You think in terms of what you're trying to get the result, not in terms of the mechanisms and all the lanes that are being interacted with, you know?

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah, so she really taught a systems approach, and like she kind of I think took a liking to me because I was a little bit ahead of the class having like the engineering side and then also bodybuilding at the same time. Like, I had a lot of like questions and was really engaged. So she completely changed how I looked at it. And then I went to grad school at USF and finished my grad degree there, and that's where I kind of like started the journey of like applying it in a coaching setting because I was working as a strength and conditioning coach, I was coaching online, I was kind of doing, I had my hand in a lot, and that's kind of where like I in the next couple of years just turned out Switch Fitness into this massive business. Like graduated grad school, had like about a year of it not taking off, and then after that, it just exploded. And so I I kind of deviated from the original question, but like my journey has always had this athlete background on the back of it, and then 2023, like the business was so massive. I was my first kid was on the way, like I was having my first kid in March of 23, and I was like 260 pounds having I'm not the most genetically resilient individual. So, like, and I've coached women, so I know what that looks like. Like, you've got these people that you can coach that like 265, 275, 285, 295, like perfect blood pressure, they can run this for 18, 20, 22, 24 weeks with minimal uh marker skewing. Um, and that just wasn't me. And I was like 260 at this point. And I was like, to be completely honest, at that time I think I was running a roster of like 150 to 170 clients. Oh I was just working like nonstop. Like it was it was it it panned out to be about 20 check-ins a day, seven days a week.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

And just and just so people understand, this is this is bodybuilding clients, so it's very high demand, a lot of like precision, time-sensitive stuff. It's not just sending you a check-in once a week and being peace out, you know?

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Yeah, so I just kind of my wife was pushing me to step away from competing because of the health stuff I was having trouble managing for myself. Looking back, knowing what I know now, I probably could have done a better job of like how I went about my bodybuilding process a bit because I always prioritized my coaching over my process. So that contributed to something, some of it as well. But yeah, and then just like stepping away from competing, like honestly, just opened opened the floodgates for me from like a teaching perspective. Like, we obviously had already all the courses at JT University, it was flourishing and growing and stuff, but like man, the bandwidth that I had now was like so much higher. And so, like, that's why the last few years, like my teaching has really just taken off, and uh, I've really enjoyed the teaching side of it. And I run a much smaller roster now, so I only coach like I only keep around 50 on roster at the moment because we have the team, right? So we got J3 coaching now. Um, I've built that team um with John, and we've got six coaches now. We we've got seven, but she's about to go do her her thing. So um, we've got six, so it's great. We've got like over 500 clients on the roster. Like I think it's I think we're right at 600 right now. So um, yeah, it's it's awesome. It's it's a lot of fun. I love being a mentor to these guys and girls, and um, yeah, I get I get a lot out of it. And so my roster is just like really high-level athletes now that I put a ton of time and effort into, and it's I'm getting to do the coaching that I enjoy. We're like 150 is doable, but you're really stretched, like you're working seven days a week and you're just like non-stop. The 50 to 70 is like a pretty good sweet spot. Like you I feel like I put a lot into everyone that I work with now.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Yeah, I feel like once you get to that number where you're going over 20 check-ins a day, you're probably like getting to a point where you're like hoping that people went off and do their check-in so that you don't have to spend me.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

The frustration would be late check-ins, right? Like if you got it, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, totally cool. Cause I'm I'm an early bird, everybody knows this. Like, I I start my day like 4 45, 5 a.m. Let's go. I would just like start check-ins. My international clients would have their updates already in, start with my internationals, move through my domestics, and then I'd basically work from 5 a.m. until 5 p.m. and I'd go train and then come home and I'd do it all over again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

So which is a lot. It's that's one thing that I realize. It's how much I can produce for my business when I'm doing a health phase compared to a growth phase. In a health phase, I literally I built nine courses in two months, like full-blown course. I have over 130 lectures, and it's all done because I'm in a health phase. I'm not feeling inflamed, I'm not struggling to walk, I'm not struggling to breathe. My mind, it's just it's hard for people to understand how clear your mind can get when you're off drugs, or for people who are off drugs to understand how difficult it is to just think and stay awake when you're on a high amount of androgens and growth hormone and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Yeah, if you if you go through the courses, like we obviously talk about like the brain negative influence that androgen has, right? There's elevated central nervous system stimulation as well, which you would think would like help with that. And it can help with drive like your desire to accomplish a goal, but boy, like peak off season. Like if you run if you're running like let's say 18-week phases, the last like five to six weeks are just brutal, brutal, brutal.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Yeah. I I actually moved away from doing 24 weeks to doing like 18 because the last six were just almost wasteful.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Yeah, yeah. Unless you have genetically someone who's much more on the leaner side of the spectrum, like it it kind of tends to not be very great 16, 7 past 16 to 18 for a lot of guys and girls. But um, yeah, like I I I've I've kind of developed a lot of new systems. I've developed a new model that I'm putting into a course over the next years. Um, from a training perspective, I taught on it in the UK, everything went great, so I think it's ready to be like its own course.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

My my brain has just been um so teaching based and it's been a lot of fun. I I I really enjoy the the mentoring side, but yeah, like in um kind of within like the scope of like managing athletes, like a lot of what ends up happening long term, like in regards to like managing those all-season phases, like you end up learning that like the bell curve of like where you operate for someone becomes much narrower.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

So, like from a body composition perspective, like we're talking about feeling bad and all that, but you just you have much tighter windows to work in with and people don't so yeah, and I feel like that's one of the components of genetics that gets neglected when people were assessing whether someone has good genetics for this or not, is how long can you actually stay in this thing?

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Because someone who can run a 34-week phase is obviously going to grow much more than someone who can only handle 16. You know, it's just it's it's it's not like you can make the break shorter because four weeks is not enough to just bring even your your androgens down entirely. So like you need at least six, and six to eight doesn't make that much of a difference, but sixteen to thirty-four makes a that's a pretty big one, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Yeah, I think the the real question to ask is probably more like what are they doing at the highest level, and then like reverse engineer it back for each guy from there. Because like to be honest, like the girls and guys, the guys and girls are the top, like their breaks between phases, like cycles, is around six to eight weeks. Like it's like you're you're barely getting drug clearance, you've got a couple weeks' base, and then you're off again. So you have to manage those processes really tight because if you don't, like that's just not feasible.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

What what do you think about biofeedback in terms of uh deciding the length of these phases? Like, for instance, for myself, I find that once I get around week six of a health phase, I'm itching to get back on to like really make this thing happen. But once I get past week 16 or week 18 of a growth phase, I'm I just I hate training, I hate eating, I hate doing everything, and I just need to stop. So I just I just put these hard caps as like, hey, six weeks is a good time for me. I don't need eight if my blood work looks good, and if my blood work looks good, I can push a little bit harder for 16 versus you know taking a little bit of more of a lower approach for 24 weeks or so.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah, so um subjective metrics you would be looking at the ones that I tracked like the closest are gonna be uh visuals, which would coincide with body weight trends. So that would be rate of gain or rate or loss, depending on where you're at. Secondarily, I'm looking at blood pressure metrics. I really love resting heart rate.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

I think it flags things before they become a problem. I I think HRV is a little bit too retrospective. I use resting heart rate quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

I don't really try to use pulse or body temperatures as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Uh I'll use body temperatures with females sometimes, but more so in the exiting bodybuilding pro Yeah, you gotta remember, like a lot of the girls that I coach, like their whole goal is be the best athlete they can be physique athlete, and they've accepted the negative consequences of that already. Um however, your tracking for individuals changes relative to risk profiles and relative to levels. So like you could certainly use this, but understand with like someone who's competing at the top level, who's got frequent andrian exposures, who's probably accepted some level of reliance on hormone hormone replacement therapy, the temperatures I don't want to say is negligent or not negative, it's just like not probably the biggest thing I'm traveling. And then lab work, obviously, like every 12 to 16 weeks would be one, but deciding on these phases kind of depends on where the prep lands. Like I always reverse engineer, so I don't know that I necessarily rely on the subjective metrics as much as I do is like the body composition match the rate of gain that I want to run for the period of the phase prior to the next phase that's gonna be coming, right? So I know I have a start of prep in 24 weeks. So that means I've got maybe 16 to 18 weeks to grow. Am I lean enough to run a rate of gain for that entirety of that phase? And the answer is going to be yes, because I will have done the homework already to make sure that that person diets that off before we start that push. So it's it's less subjective metrics as long as someone's operating within like a very consistent place because you have so much control as a coach when that happens that like you should know that these people are where they need to be. Yeah. Sounds a little harsh, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Because like but you're doing you're dealing with athletes. So it makes sense with an athlete that this is the case. Yeah. Whether whether someone is a little bit lifestyle or someone who wants to compete, but it's not their, it's not, they're not going for the pro car. They just love the bodybuilding lifestyle. They're not, you know, sacrificing their health so much and things like that. Um at that point, it could be a little bit useful, you know?

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Yeah, absolutely. So I would definitely be using like a HOMA IR transition before you transition back into like pushing, because I would want to know their response to like carbohydrates and like their insulin sensitivity before I went into pushing and escalating. The second thing I would do with that is like use that to educate someone on why consistency within macros and not having bolus meals, like large bolus surplus cheap meals, things along those lines, is integral and managing that next phase. So, like if I had someone that struggled with like large feedings or going out to eat and excessively or eating, I'd probably use the skewing of that to showcase, like, hey, like this is not a skill set that aligns with where you're trying to go.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

It's really just expectation management. And in the way that I look at it, and I'm a little bit harsher with this, like, the lower your goal set, like the lower level of an athlete you are, the less frequent your push phases can be because you just don't have the skills to manage your health and to manage your phases appropriately, all the way to the point that I'm of the opinion that if you are more of a lifestyle bodybuilder where you're not competing and you're just doing it for recreation. I don't see superphysiological PDs having a place. I'm I'm cool with like sports TRT, like upper end ranges of like that, and maybe going that route and then going down like longevity protocols, like that too. But yeah, I just I just don't see why someone would risk the potential because like it's chronic. Like PDs are chronic. Like when we look at the categories that they accumulate stress in, it's not acute, usually, it's chronic use that leads to negative outcomes.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

So in a lot of these things we can't catch, right? Like, we can't know how much plaque buildup is in your brain. So it's uh there, you know, for things like that. I mean, obviously, you can try to combat that with something like uridine monophosphate, which is fantastic, but it's also not super well researched for this end in particular. We also don't have a single study that looks at this like androgen-induced black accumulation. We also have very scattered evidence when it comes to these things, right? Like we know, like we Q is very harsh on the kidneys, but we don't have comparative studies on any other thing. You know, trend balone is very harsh on the brain, but Nandrolone is as well. But we don't have anything on Winstro, we don't have anything on Turinabol. Like I just it's just it's a very incomplete picture. And um, I do I do feel like sometimes people are a little bit too quick to jump the gun, especially with trends like in in TikTok and things like that that just oversimplify this, and it just people talk about thank God this is not the case so much with PDs, but they talk about enhancers in general as if they are just supplements. And I feel like, you know, at least at least for me, there's a hierarchy, and I believe for you there is as well, in which something like a peptide would be on the top of the hierarchy because of how precise the signal is, but it's also the smallest amount, it's the cherry on the cake, it's just the last little bit of detail. Like when I tell people that I took five milligrams of GHK copper and I saw pretty much no change in my skin, it was just pretty much on my nails. Like, I don't think people want to hear that. They want to hear that you just take this one thing and you can continue eating McDonald's and it's gonna be fine, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

I gave shameless plug here. I gave a VIP lecture. What month was that? A few months back. I presented basically the pyramid of progress. So, like, it's like the base of the pyramid are like the habits that are going to make the most actual physique progress. So, this is like your execution, your ability to drive progressive overload, your sleep habits, consistent nutrition, things like that. You gotta go up a level and like what are the more robust things that drive stimulus? Androgens are going to be that, like your tripod androgens. Then you're gonna kind of get into the unandrogenic realm, probably with that. Um, and I would put above that peptides because like I really just don't like anecdotally don't see the efficacy being as robust as even like, and we could get into like deeper discussions if needed, but um as as any of the other levels. And so, like for me, it's even hard to put it right above some of the non-animation.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's weird because it's it's like hierarchical is not above, it's just a smaller piece. So it just fits in a pyramid, but it just it's not above anything else.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

It's it's just so high up the pyramid that it's like so minuscule. Like the way I describe it was like if you had to move 5,000 uh pounds of dirt, right? And you had the option to use uh like a uh what are the yellow things called? Excavator? An excavator, yeah. An excavator, a shovel, which one you choose? Yeah, yeah. An excavator, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:21

The shovel is so precise, it's a small chain of metals.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Right? So, like, sure, like it moves dirt, right? Like it moves dirt, but it's not robust. So um hopefully that lands, but like that's how I try to explain this to people.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

I like that a lot. That's actually a great way of putting it. I feel like for me, the bottom of that foundation, it's actually before we even get to training to diet and nutrition is the identity of the person. I feel like once we have that nailed down, everything else sort of just moves because you are the person who eats these meals and you are the person who goes to sleep in time and you prioritize recovering all these things. So it just becomes automatic almost, you know?

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Yeah, I uh I I grew up in the South. So like the whole like food expectation thing's a big one down here. So I totally get it. Like there's so many like societal pressures that can really drive people early in the sport into like not great executors for sure. And that's something you just gotta learn to to manage. And like honestly, like just ask yourself like these people are not gonna probably remember this like a week from now. Like in reality, like people like I I chuck when I listened to something a couple days ago that was like talking about like sports performance and people getting back into sports if they like you know you know took time away or whatever. And people don't care, like they just really don't about what you do. So like you might as well do what is going to fill your cup up in regards to like your process you're trying to run. Like they might like get a little butthurt in the acute moment of it, but like once they come to understand it, like they're usually supportive, right? And if they're not, that's their problem, not yours, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Exactly, exactly. Yes, and I feel like that's uh that that's something that I learned from a lecture at J3U when you guys were talking about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, on just creating your support based on like who is in your team, who are the people around you, because you want those people to the people closest to you who have the most influence to you in your life to be the people who are pushing you closer to your goals, not just relating to who you are right now, because that's the that's that's the identity that you're not trying to preserve. You're not trying to become the person today, you're trying to wake up tomorrow 1% better than today. But like for, you know, you can break this down into a smaller scale. Like when I'm dealing with someone who's not an athlete, but say they have an eating disorder, you know, what we're gonna do is a very slow process. It's going to be day by day, just being like, hey, what's one small little step that we can take to just make this a little bit better tomorrow? So it could be like, oh, you ate a whole jar of peanut butter, eat the whole jar, but don't scrape the sides today. And then tomorrow, just try to just not take the last bite, okay? And just moving over that way. I feel like that's um, that's a way of um of uh progressing someone that is it's cohesive with their identity of who they are there. Once you fix that identity, you just have the capacity of just moving them literally anywhere. It's kind of like you're playing chess with your athletes and your people in your roster because you can literally just tell them, like, oh, go do this, and they just like, yes, sir, I'm gonna do it. And they get the results.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Um, I was telling my wife this the other day. I'm a little spoiled now because, like, in your earlier days, you're getting people like all across the spectrum of issues, right? Like, you get you'll get some advanced competitors, like you'll get some guys that guys get it. You'll get some people who are like just trying it for the first time. You'll get some people who come to bodybuilding to manage eating disorders, because like think of it this way like a lot of people use bodybuilding as a tool to learn habits and skills that allow them to manage previous eating disorders, right? And so it becomes a crutch psychologically, which is why that identity piece becomes so attached to them being a bodybuilder, because for them it's their saving grace, it pulls them out of eating disorder. Now, the ability to get out of eating disorder habits, I think, takes a long time and is exacerbated with bodybuilding. So, like, while it's a crutch that helps them manage it, it also can potentially damage like their relationship with food even further. That's that's uh that's a long story for another day. But um my my point with all this is like I was talking about how I I haven't had many eating disorder clients recently because I just don't like I'm getting these higher-level athletes. So a light of the psychological development that I'm I'm teaching people is more like if you you're familiar with stoicism um and like riding the midline and like learning emotional regulation. Um, and I'm doing that through block schedules. So if you've heard I've heard I've talked about it. We helped you set up one, right? Like I think when we did a call, we helped you set up one. Um, progress doesn't care how you feel, which is horrible to say it's horrendous.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

I fucking hate it, it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Shouldn't be this way, but it really doesn't care how you feel. Like it's you if you wake up on the wrong side of the bed, be angry, but be angry and XQ, right? Like that's just the reality of it, right? So um you just kind of learn like one of the best books I've ever read is The The Obstacles Way. Um, and it kind of sent me down this path of learning the skill of like no matter what you have to do to emotionally regulate, you can't let yourself get outside of these realms of like taking you to a place that makes you unproductive because of that emotional regulation not being there. And a lot of people don't have that. So, like a lot of the skill acquisition piece is like not only the exynoses of bodybuilding, but it's like giving them that. Like if I can give someone that, like there's just no there's no chance that they're not gonna progress because they become a better athlete, they execute more consistently. Their bad days are better than people's good days. That type of person that I try to try to build. So I've kind of found walking someone through a block schedule and like the non-negotiables with that goes a long way, right? Um, I mean, you can even speak to this yourself. I know it changed things for you quite a bit as far as like how much you get done in a day.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Dude, my the the amount of stuff that I get done in a day is absurd. Like, I I people are always asking me, like, how do you do it? Like, how much are you like are you using AI and all this stuff? And I'm like, I mean, sure, I'm using Google as well. I'm using absolutely everything, but at the same time, it's literally, I just my my notification goes off, hey, it's time to do this. I just exit the window that I'm doing whatever and I start doing the next thing. And it's just I don't have an option because that's my program that was built for me by me in the beginning of the week that just tells me, hey, to arrive on Friday and for you to be able to have some time on Saturday and Sunday, you need to finish these things by this time. And I feel like one of the things that people I talked to Hunter about this as well, that they don't have, they just don't set themselves up for success. So they think that they're going to be able to transform their identity entirely without time blocking things like prepping your pills to be able to take your supplements, to put them in little containers and put them in strategic place so you don't forget them, like beside the bed and like near your where you eat your meals, or by, you know, just time blocking grocery shopping or just no making your meals and actual training. And the training block shouldn't just be your training, it should be the drive to the gym, it should be the drive back and your shower, just include all of that and all these things. Is it I I if you have these things set up for you, it's almost like you can't, it's it's so much harder. You have to literally go against your own system and what you build to get out of it, you know. But if you're just going with the flow, just doing whatever, just auto-regulating.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

I hate that word. You gotta be really advanced to be able to do that. Um one thing I would say is it is one of the best skills to develop as an athlete, but it's one of the worst skills to develop relationally. So you have to be careful. It's a double-edged thing, right? Because like I love my wife. I'm about to have a second kid with her. She's a bit of a firecracker. She knows this is not this is not new information. They have a tendency to like default to the midline so it can make her feel like I just don't care. Like, there were there's a requirement of communication that comes with gaining that skill that like you have to be aware of too. Because, like you mentioned, your inner circle is one of the biggest things that can either make or break your success. And so if your actions lead to something that's in extremely negative for someone in that circle, is if you've decided to put those people in your circle, like it's something you have to work on. And so, like, I've I've been pretty open about this. We do uh marriage counseling every three to four weeks-ish. More so is like it's an opportunity to basically communicate in a way that's like done through a filter. Like, one of the one of the biggest things learning through therapy is like communication is not only a skill that you learn between humans, but it's also learning how to translate someone's language. So, like the way that I say something might not land the same way to another individual. And so, like the ability to receive, and so that's where like emotional intelligence starts to come in and learning someone's ability to receive information, it can be massive. So, like it's it's the one thing that I warn everybody when we go down this process of learning how to ride the midline, because is can be a major negative if someone's not a good communicator.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, absolutely. I I I totally agree with that. Now, in terms of um of like developing this skill and uh just learning how to execute apart from your emotions and and and also apart from how you're feeling, because there's you know, with the whole fatigue conversation, there you're you're not gonna feel 100% to go to the gym every time. And sometimes you're gonna go to the gym and you you need to push yourself to the extent that you're not going to be able to have a productive business meeting 30 minutes after you go to the gym. You know, I don't, I actually don't understand how people are like, no, I trained to failure, and yet their whole day is just like meetings before and after and just a lot of productive work. I'm like, I don't think you understand the cognitive load that a hard training session actually takes. It just numbs your brain to the rest of reality. But in any case, how is it that you'd like manage because you you coach people who probably have this where they have jobs that are really important and require a high level of capacity of cognitive capacity and emotional self-regulation, but they also need to execute the program. And for not everyone has the privilege of not being able, not having to do cardio in a in a prep or in an off season, or you know, is not having to take so many drugs to develop and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Yeah, so that varies quite a bit person to person. Like just some tools I've used in the past, just so that we can like lay them out for the audience, is um one, like kind of building a pre-workout ritual routine that's uh a little bit solitary. Not solitary in the sense of like away from people, but just like void from stimulus and maybe kind of more preparatory in nature in regards to like getting yourself ready for the gym. I bring up Pavlov's dog a lot because I think it's a skill that goes well with like, and I'm gonna use it as the term is a skill, but I'm gonna bring it back in a second. It goes along with bodybuilding extremely well, is like, and this is where like sometimes the more dream catcher like need a lot of like freedom and variety struggle in bodybuilding, is I do think that there's something to be said about the 30 minutes leading into training being fairly similar every single time you go into training. And whatever that is for you, you need to figure that out. So, like, like for myself, right? Like, I used to order the same exact flavor of pre-workout, and that'd be the flavor of pre-workout that I would do for the entirety of the block. And that flavor would be like something that's signaled, like, hey, it's time to go ahead and get training. Now, not everybody takes pre-workout, right? So it can be something else. I used to use my headphones as well. So hard focus, soft focus is something people will talk about in different realms. Soft focus is like being able to get out of what you're doing right here in the moment, be able to talk, have a conversation, discuss something outside of like training. But then when it's time to do your set or time to perform, you have something that helps you lock back in. So I'd use my headphones. So like my headphones would always come out if I was between sets. And then I use that as like a task that would lock me in, right? And so like carrying that with and to be a hundred percent honest with you, I learned this from golf because like in golf, when you teach keeping focus through a four and a half, five hour round, you have like a pre-shot routine that starts with like putting a glove on and tapping it or something in that early portion that checks you into the shot you're about to hit. Because there's no way you're focusing for five hours and a hard focus the entire time.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yeah, it's it's the same thing with shooting. It visualization is such an important component, and I feel like it gets neglected in bodybuilding for some reason. But visualizing is very strong. We have actual studies on this, you know?

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Yeah, 100%. And it's uh but yeah, so I I use stuff like that, and like again, there's so much variety to that. It can be anything for people, right? Like it can be flavor of drink, it can be a tactile thing, it can be whatever, but I really like that to help them click off the like business side of the brain and then get them into like their training mode.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Yeah, and I I I do the same thing. I uh I always drink the same stuff. I take my dog out to pee. I she comes back, I get into my car and I'm listening to something related to training. I try to not listen to something related to business because otherwise I'm just gonna be working in between sets and it's gonna be a shit show. And it's I I I feel like people don't realize this, but I can look at my training log, and if I have a day that I'm just not very in mentally, I will I will feel like I'm getting to failure, but I'll be three reps shy of what I was last week, which is absurd because three reps is quite significant in terms of growth, like leaving three reps out, you know. So I I feel like that's very important. Always, you know, I'm not I've changed my mind a little bit when it comes to intra workout nutrition for the majority of people. Um, I just I just don't see them as a need, but I still have it in place because I feel like it's useful as a tool in in your training, as just something that you do in your training that's part of that ritual that we are trying to maintain. And doing, you know, 10 minutes of of walking before to warm up and start, you know. Like I remember watching Kai Green on the treadmill, and he was always like, I'm trying to squeeze my muscles and feel what I'm working on and all these things. And it sounds bullshit, but it's also it's it's it's the work that you're about to do, man. Like I wake up in the morning and the first thing I do, I read a report of what I'm supposed to do in this day, and I'm ready. I know exactly what I'm going to be doing in this day. I'm I'm I'm mentally prepared for it, you know?

SPEAKER_02 35:46

I read through what I'm gonna train when during the 10 minute workout. Like most of the time I do like, sorry, the 10 minute walk.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

Yeah, I look because so he's always like, So what are you training today? I'm like, I don't know. I haven't walked on the treadmill yet. Give me a second to look at my sheets.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Yeah, I'm the I'm the guy that remembers like the training from like all of my clients, like off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

I don't know if it's like upper upper or lower. Yeah, you're like, because my outfits, you know, are okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

I can't I can't judge. So I was teaching, we had the event in Nashville, right? I was teaching, I used to, I was talking to them about like choosing T-bar rows and whatever. I went through a period where I was like really tinkering with T-bars during my competitive days, where I would try to wear the same shirt so that I could consistently set up the sternum relative to the pad in the same spot every time that I would train that session. So like you do you, girl. Like I've totally been there before, but like I'm also I also understand that I my brain gets really obsessive over trying to pursue being the best I can be at whatever it is I'm pursuing at that time. So I've just hardwired that way, and I just don't apologize for it. But at the same time, I can't expect everybody else to be that same way. So I try to create like better systems for people like, and then you talked about systems at the beginning of the podcast, right? Like my brain allows me to create processes that create an outcome, and then really the skill is like downgrading it to whatever level someone's at, right? And so, like for her, for example, like females are uh I shouldn't that is a gross oversimplification. I find it more frequently in female clients that you can see he's married.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

Look at that. Counseling is working, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:34

It is it is my perception of reality that you tend to find the more free-spirited individuals in the female side of the sport than you do in the male side to the point that like it can't, it doesn't resemble itself in discipline. It's not a lack of discipline, it's a lack of like structure to the way they operate their process. And so, like her like going through the procession 10 minutes beforehand, like me, I would have been thinking about that pendulum squat from seven days before and thinking every single day like about it, right? So it's like there's just a difference in like the type of relationship that that happens, which is why a lot of times I have them use physical logbooks because they have to write their session down before they walk on the gym floor. Nice, nice. That's a good idea. So like small things like that. Like it's like I might not ever tell them that's why I'm using it, but like I've got a lot of those little like idioms where it's like I tell someone to do something or I ask someone to do something, I should say, more so to help them from like a process perspective.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Yeah. Yeah, I feel a lot of people I don't think they realize how much of coaching is actually just the the the brain side of things. It's just getting your brain to behave in the right way when people think that I know enough about training and I know enough about nutrition, so therefore I don't need anyone. I'm like, oh no, you're missing the point so badly. Like you have no idea how much you're missing the point here.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Because like, think of it this way like, have you ever seen a girl's notebook look disorganized and like messy and no, it's not gonna happen. They're gonna sit there, they're gonna draw their little lines, they're gonna make sure all their things are in there. 12 different colors. It might not be in different colors, but you better believe that you're gonna be able to read every single bit of it. Yeah. Me, if I write it, I'm just like one, two, three, four, right? Like it that wouldn't work for me. But I can't read my shit. Yeah. So like it's different tools for different people. So you got you learn it over time, like with coaching. It's more of an anecdotal piece that you learn. But how people tick, I've gone as far as like if you go into the lectures, I build uh if you go into level one in the training section, I build like psychological profiles and like how to coach them according to so like yeah, yeah, it's very nice.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

I like that a lot. I actually do that, I run through those questions. I I I build my own questionnaire on a questionnaire for myself. So when I'm reading their intake form, I'm categorizing them on like what level of execution they are based on like each category and things like that, and just uh understand it, like hey, for you, the most bang for your buck, it's going to be leveraging training because you're doing pretty well on nutrition. Though that's really rare that someone does well in nutrition and doesn't do well in training, but the opposite is is quite common.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

I have a question. Have you ever had like ADHD or some other kind of thing? Probably.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Talking to someone with ADD, but I yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

You're talking like someone that had to build all of these things, these things to be able to function, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

That's exactly where all this comes from, right? Because like I can't it drives my wife so nuts, dude. Cause like I'm I'm like, ooh, squirrel, like that's me. Like that is 100%. Um yeah, I mean ADHD, ADD dealt with it all. Um a lot of people for some reason have like really large negative connotations towards treatment nowadays, um, which I can understand. Like, I I I get the whole like reservation towards the medical field. Um, my wife's a medical practitioner, so like she's uh she's kind of like one of those people that's not like full gone medical, so like she's probably a little bit of an exception to the rule, but um anyways, you have to build these systems for these people because it's not they're they're just gonna like start to tail off on the things that actually matter. And really, like you kind of give people the system that's equivalent to their level, but like kind of like Nathan, she was saying earlier, like with the like trying to reduce the amount of peanut butter someone ate out of a jar, like that's like such a low level of skill, right? And so like you gotta have processes that match where someone's at, right? So like if I was to show someone who's never built a block calendar, my block calendar, like they'd be like, I can't do it. Or it looks overwhelming. They're like, I can't do this. This is not gonna happen, or this is not gonna work, right? So like I'll I'll start those people with what we call pivot points. So pivot points are just like moments in the day that like pivot into a new portion of the day. And a lot of times for like like people that are learning it, it's their meals, right? Like their meals happen at X time, it's a non-negotiable. This is when your meal happens, it's a pivot point into the next thing you do for the day.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

And it works perfect in like three-hour blocks, you know?

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Yeah, so like, and so like it allows them to like kind of run a block schedule without having to go through the details of like mapping out their every single piece. So yeah, so like like that's a great example of like a level of a block schedule that you would introduce someone to. And so you're gonna have to have that for everything, for training, for nutrition, for everything. Um, I was I was speaking, I I'm actually giving a lecture tomorrow on this peak. Maya is such an experienced dieter and has worked with me long enough that like I actually peak her with macros, which is sounds crazy, right? Because like it's it's yeah, I mean, there's there's one other person that I've peaked with purely macros, and that was Emily King. But like, it's because they're so skilled at like keeping everything so consistent that it drives them less stress to like receive a meal and have something slightly in it that they want different than to just get the macro adjustment and be able to do it. So, like a great example is like she had a meal that was like meal two, I believe, that once we got above a certain carbohydrate threshold, we switched it to bagel fins because it made digesting it easier. But she would account for the additional fats added by the bagel fins within that without me even telling her that she would need to. And I know that she would do that. And so, like, that's why this process works. And so that's a very experienced dieter that I have to have very minimal guardrails on, right? Um, she won a classical Arnold, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:46

She's also someone who's been doing the same exact exercise for like a year, so it's she's extremely consistent everywhere else, and you have only one place that the variables are changing, so you can still pinpoint exactly where the output difference is coming from.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Yeah. So it's like the the variables are so consistent day to day without me having to be the person that keeps them consistent, like it works, but like you would never do that with the majority of your roster, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

It'd just be a nightmare.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Now, in terms of um, you know, certain things that people move forward to, it's um, you know, something that I that that we did was I finished my my my growth block and then I showed you the pictures. I'm like, where do you think like where should we go? And within like five seconds, you're like, it's chest and arms, like that really needs to come up and legs need to like take a step back. So we moved and started doing chest three times a week and just raised the volume significantly. I went from doing like 12 sets to doing 18 sets of chest, and the development really was there, which blew my mind because unfortunately, I hated training with high volume. It was like two and a half hours at the gym to do chest and back together, but the results, they just don't lie. Like it just, it just kind of was kind of there. So doing 20 sets of back, 20 sets of chest, and then everything else, like six to eight sets, it was um, it was kind of uh it was kind of crazy. But I I I wonder like when it comes to these more like specific strategies for training itself, do you have a point where you feel like, okay, this person now it's at a point where we can start working on, you know, like lagging body parts and and playing with volume a little bit, or is this something that you're keeping track from the beginning? Just as there's some people who will do like we get to to this point first, and then we start worrying about imbalances and uh differences and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

The context here is important, Nathan, because like we need the the better question to ask is like what level of execution is this athlete? And by execution, I mean like on a training floor.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

Because if it's really bad, like any level of specialization in program design is not gonna matter. You got to fix that first before you do anything, right? So, like that program design probably looks more general while I fix that. And then once that's fixed, then I go into more specialized. The second, the other side of the equation is like the advanced athlete who has, you know, nine out of ten patterns fairly correct. You're fixing things, but you're not free vamping a whole execution. That's where like it comes in kind of right off the rip. Um, and so I I will say like the general rule of thumb is like more specialized and super physiological phases, less specialized, more generalized than like in-betweens. And the consideration people don't take here is like you can have local buildup of fatigue just like you can have systemic. And I love giving joints a break on those in-between health phases before I go back into super high frequency, high volume with the specialization blocks. So, like the the in-betweens kind of serve as like uh it's not a D-load because you're still training hard and you'll have a D-load in there somewhere. Uh almost like a temporary local fatigue break of like not training at the frequencies and volumes that you do during your specialization so that you can set yourself up to be able to do it in the following block.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

So I hope that answers it sufficiently.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Like that's it does. It doesn't, it's very similar to what to what I do. Whenever I pull someone into a health phase, I usually take one training day off and then I lower the amount of sets or something like that, or add an extra rest day or something like that if it's a rotating split. But I feel like that's so helpful. Like for me, it helps me regain my drive to get back, and it also allows me to not have to take 47 different peptides for all of my health issues in between every single, you know, like push that I do because my joints are so beat up and everything is so messed up, you know?

SPEAKER_00 47:32

Yeah, I I do want to be like, and we've kind of ragged on peptides a bit, but there are some that work. And so, like, if you use them in the right way, in the right places, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Yeah, and I and I'm all about that. So let's let's talk about that. Have you what what are what are some peptides that you like were a little bit unsure about them in the beginning, and then they became actual tools in your toolbox for you know deployment when it's necessary?

SPEAKER_00 47:53

I'm gonna tell you right now, I question all of them. Like I just I'm not a bandwagon person. I I can't without fully understanding something and without seeing some of it play out, like I'm not going to prescribe it for a couple reasons. One, the level that we've delivered results at without them showcases the minimal necessity that it would be required for someone's process, right? So, like that's one aspect of it. The second aspect is like, what were these drugs originally designed for? Let's look at that within that I as uh that application first. And if you I don't know if you listen to our Reddit podcast, right? Like let's see Reddit as the example, right? Like people are throwing this out as like a lipid profile manager, and it's like that's so secondary to primary implementation that, like, sure, that's a great benefit, but like, can we talk about all the potential negatives? Can we talk about where it would primarily be used? Like we do have drugs that manage lipids that doesn't have to be Reddit, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:59

Like we also have supplements. You could literally just use like inositol and berberine and uh all of these things. Like, you don't need red to manage those things.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

That's my point. Or you could just like run a smoother process, right? You can run an entire process and manage your process a bit better, and yeah, have the lipid profile issues that you would because I mean like think about it. Like polyphenols, you've got omegas, you've got so much that could go into lipids.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

You have vitamin, you have vitamin E, you have uh uh berberine, you have inositol, you have uh sterols, like there's so much yeah, yeah. You have fruit fruit and vegetables.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

Yeah, like these are the people that like don't even hit 200 grams of fruit and veggies a day, but they'll throw a reta at it to solve a problem, right? So, like that's where my hesitation always comes from anything being like a savior. Now, getting into like tools, like massive fan of BPC TV. A friend of mine, I have like my different ways that I apply it, but like a friend of mine went on a deep dive and like has like helped organize this document alongside like that is extremely robust for all the potential applications that you could use BPC and TB, especially like including oral BPC alongside that. Those are like so robust, like using like you want to talk about fixing injury profiles, high BPC, high dB, exosomes, and growth hormone.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

Just like oh, exosome is amazing. And you and you want to know something crazy is that GHK copper is actually used and researched as a priming tool for exosome therapy and stem cell therapy. So I that's that's something that I deployed before stem cell or before exosome therapy. It's always GHK copper. It's a it's a very useful it's a it's a very useful way of using it, but again, you need to understand the mechanism of the drug to even know that this is a possibility. Otherwise, for you is just a skin and hair peptide.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So and so like so that'd be like straight out of the gate, like the ones that like probably get used the most frequently. Reddit's a pretty cool tool. I'm still I gave my my thoughts on length in this in the Reddit podcast we did, but I still don't think it fits most bodybuilders. I I think it works, but I think like you're driving the potential for more problems when you go to peak. And that's that's my main hesitation with it. Like, cause to pull it five half-lives out and then also have it out at least two weeks before, you're looking at pulling it like six weeks out, which is where you need it. Which is kind of when you need to manage hunger the most. So, like if you reverse engineer it from that thought process, the application for this is the extremely weight lot resist weight loss resistant female that really struggles to get into contest shape and could benefit from a triple agonist, right? That's where I love it. Like, I'm using it, like I have a girl competing next week and a figure pro show, like, and she's never been in true contest shape before. And I've used that as a tool within her contest prep, and she's in true contest shape this time, right? So, like, certainly has application. And and people mistake me. Like, people think I rag on them and don't ever want to use them. It's like, yeah, I rag on the fact that you guys think this is like Jesus Christ coming down from the heavens above. Like, this is my problem with this, right? Is like it's like the little, you know, the the meme with the salt, right? Like the salt on top of the food. Like that's a peptide. Like, you can gotta have that. And so I'd say those three, like BBC TB together and G and uh Red U are probably the quickest into my toolbox. Now, I have two that I want you to give give some thought to after a lot of benefit with the MOT C SLU conversation. Yeah. Um, definitely application, definitely overuse as well. We got to remember that like mitochondrial processes can drive fatigue if we have too much of these in play.

SPEAKER_01 52:54

Like especially if you don't have if you're not supporting the transporters and the cofactors, because you're literally running out of raw materials for the mitochondria to build the what it needs to build.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

So, like long term, like run down that process further, like training performance retention across a contest prep to me could potentially be a problem with this. So I don't robustly use it. And it's also remember this, right? The athletes I work with run a really tight ship and really don't need it.

SPEAKER_01 53:23

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So one or like two one one tool that I feel like it's very useful as a substitute for Red Uh that worked really well for me is because I'm already controlling inflammation and lipids elsewhere with supplements, and because I actually don't need to slow down my motility at all, I don't need to target either one of those pathways. So the only issue that I'm dealing with is hunger. Now, if hunger is the main issue, then I'd rather resort to something that's going to be on the amylen receptor, like chorillantide. And that is going to allow me to feel hunger, not slow down my digestion, not mess up with my lipids or anything like that, is just pure peace when it comes to food. So, like I found the the prescribed dose is starting at 2.5 milligrams. I found a lot of success starting in the microgram range and then moving over to around one milligram once a week. That has been absolutely fantastic because it doesn't mess up with my gut at all. And it's literally the only thing that tells my brain, hey, stop eating. Because Redus still depends on you listening to the signal from your gut to stop eating. That's why people continue overeating with it.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

Yeah. So like it's still a band-aid though.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

Yeah, it is, it is a band-aid, but you have to think that, like, just like some people have a more pronounced response to androgens from like a rhenian and geotensin aldosterone system, some people have a more pronounced response to ghrelin, for example. And in in that case, if we're able to just make that a little bit more quiet, it's it's not like we're throwing like testofensing as someone who's a binge eater just every time they think about eating. I get it.

SPEAKER_00 54:53

I get like the the it's still conceptually for me. I struggle with like to my and this is where some of my strong opinions can sometimes be a little bit debatable slash not very popular. If you struggle with food noise that much, should you be competing? Would be my yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

Yeah, absolutely. That's a that's a question that needs to be asked uh absolutely, but that's that's that's one tool that could be that could come to be used, you know, as um just dealing with the hunger in the last six weeks when you can't have motility messed up, you know, and uh just running like trifala and magnesium citrate and uh ginger tea is not gonna move the prokinetics strong enough to be able to keep against the Retta. So that's that's one that I found to be very, very useful. The other one that I found to be very useful is SS31, which we we do have like more studies on this than pretty much everything else, and just like seeing the the effect that it has on people's diets, like people are able to diet on significantly higher calories, which allows them to not have to need something like a GLP one when it comes to that point, or even stimulants um at all, you know. So I don't I feel like those two tools could be could be used in the future, but I do I do agree with you. It they're very much reliant on, you know, and I feel like they're usually pushed as one tools. So people are using the same approach as that that we condemn in westernized medicine, which is just dealing with the symptoms. You're also dealing with the symptoms. What is your what what is your upstream fix to the binge eating issues that you have? That's the real fucking question. You can have the tools to patch the problems, like you can you can you can put benzo peroxide on your pimple, but you still need to address the fact that your gut is literally recycling endotoxins, you know?

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Yeah, yeah, and I guess that's where my brain usually goes, is like like up the chain. Like, I really don't want to give away like this new module stuff, but um I I I would just like I would really look at your process and understand like, are you using this as a tool to patch a problem, or are you using this as a tool to help you accomplish a goal? And is it truly helping you accomplish a goal? Because like that, if if we can answer those questions honestly and say, yes, it's helping us accomplish a goal, and it's not a patch for a skill that I lack, like I would because like, and so I because I I get where your logic is, and I would tend to agree with you a bit more that that might be a better purely hunger management tool. Yeah. But like the use case for you of like that being the sole problem you're trying to solve is not going to be as robust as like the amount of competitors that would need more than just that, right?

SPEAKER_01 57:28

And so for sure.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

And so like that's where like the conversation, like in your n equals one case, probably make potentially makes sense. Would still want to have conversations around building advanced dieting skills that allow for the psychological management of hunger signaling not to disrupt our day-to-day, but but should be and could be used if there's a higher level goal to be accomplished right now acutely, and then we can deal with those at a at a different point. My my follow-up to this would be like the the questions you need to answer are is this potentially going to take away from my potential to present the best physique on stage? Is this a patch for something that I don't have as a skill? And if I'm reliant on something along those lines, should I be competing? So that's kind of where like the conversation and so like leads. And I think that's a great way to start to answer these questions for peptides. It's like if we can walk through those logics, it's like you can answer yes or no for pretty much all of these. Um and look, like let's be real, like bodybuilders a lot of times are ahead of the curve relative to research.

SPEAKER_01 58:30

So often.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

They're just willing they're willing to tinker in a space that is never gonna get approval. Yeah, right. So um so like obviously, like depending on the peptides you talk about, like long-term effects is like a conversation that has to come up depending on which one you're discussing. I think there's I think there's a day, and this is where like people don't see the side of my brain, because usually people don't like bring this conversation to this depth. I think there's a day where like there's a drug that makes the bodybuilding process so easy, it doesn't become as like appealing anymore. And I think that that's not too, too far away from where we're at right now.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

Okay, man, that's uh I'm gonna I'm gonna leave us on that note uh for us to to to reflect on at home. I mean, we we covered a lot of ground with uh with Luke today. We went from just basically how to understand a little bit of his journey and then how to apply and just learning what some of the challenges that you have in your life and and being able to create tools and strategies and develop skills to be able to deal with these things. And then moving over to a conversation about training and uhing with peptides, where we discuss a little bit about how to use these tools as uh enhancers of the outcome that you're seeking as opposed to crutches, similar to how I explain Adderall. It's not something that you're using to not have to go to therapy and not have to learn the skills about time management. It's something that allows you to learn those skills and apply those things. So it's a it's a it's an enhancer of the activity that you're doing. I mean, guys, if you're a if you're the kind of person who's tired of these, you know, surface level tips and you want to run your body like a high performance system, this is exactly the life, the the level that we're operating at. And every Friday we're dropping a new episode with another world class coach, athlete, or tinker who's actually been in the trenches doing this at a high level. So make sure you subscribe, share this with someone who really needs to hear it, and let us know what hit the hardest on you from this conversation. We'll see you guys again next Friday with another heavy hitting interview. Peace out.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:37

Peace.