Bodybuilding Industry Secrets w/Justin Mihaly (Hypertrophy, Supplements, Fat Loss, Business)

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🎓 ABOUT THIS VIDEO 
Discover the raw truths about muscle building, fat loss, supplements, and the mindset needed to succeed in both fitness and business. In this episode, Justin Mihaly shares invaluable insights from his extensive experience as an athlete, coach, entrepreneur, and mentor in the industry.

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🧠 TIMESTAMPS 
00:00 - Debunking Popular Internet Myths About Muscle Building

00:11 - Justin Mihaly's Athletic and Coaching Journey

00:25 - The Power of Cellular and Mitochondrial Health in Fat Loss & Muscle Gain

03:48 - Why Personalized Supplements Outperform Blends

05:23 - The Critical Role of B1 and Other Vitamins in Metabolic Health

07:22 - Decision-Making in Supplementation: Marry, Kill, Rewrite

09:28 - Reframing Cholesterol and Its Role in Hormonal Health

13:00 - The Myth of Psycho and Why it's Not a Going-Over- simplified Fat Loss Explanation

16:00 - Cultivating Cellular Function for Fat Loss & Muscle Building

19:39 - Peptide Use: Risks, Overrated & Dangerous Peptides

22:00 - The Potential of Mitochondrial Peptides and Cardiotropics

23:34 - Building a Bodybuilder from 200 to 250 Pounds: A Strategic Approach

26:24 - The Critical Link Between Nervous System, Training, and Recovery

30:52 - The Impact of Breathing, Grounding, and Sleep on Body Composition

34:00 - The Real Story Behind Gear Use and Bodybuilding Risks

39:00 - Dissecting Popular Myths About T3 and Thyroid Hormones

44:00 - The Power of Consistency, Delayed Gratification & Moving Towards Goals

50:49 - Overcoming Procrastination & Moving in the Right Direction

54:44 - Final Thoughts: The Drive and Grit for Building a Successful Coaching Business and Body

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Anything that the that the internet thinks in terms of a popular opinion about muscle building or fat loss, if it's popular opinion on the internet, then it's 100% wrong. Anything they believe is popular, do the opposite. You're gonna go really far. Dude, you know what? Everyone who wants to bodybuild, you could you don't even need a coach anymore. Go to the internet, find what's popular, do the opposite, and domination.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Welcome guys to another episode of your favorite podcast, the only God-ordained podcast on the internet about fitness and enhancements, the Opticast, with your host, me, Nathan, where today we're pulling back the curtain on what it actually takes to build a body, a business, and a career that doesn't just look impressive on the outside, but it's actually built to last from the inside out. Now, let me tell you about today's guest because this one is very, very special. Justin Mahaley is one of those rare people in the fitness and performance space who has actually done the thing at every level as an athlete, as a coach, as an entrepreneur, and now as a mentor to some of the most serious coaches in the industry, including myself. He started from nothing, a walk-on-track athlete at the University of Cincinnati who, by his own admission, was nowhere near the best guy on the team, and turning that same obsessive work ethic into building one of the most respected physique coaching operations in the country. His company has produced over two dozen IFB pro cards. As far as I know, I might be out of date with the numbers here, but multiple pro show wins and top 10 Mr. Olympia finishes, results that most coaches they spend an entire career chasing and some of them never get to experience. He has scaled a seven-figure coaching business, competed himself on the national stage, and developed a reputation for doing things that other coaches simply just can't explain. Getting athletes leaner, healthier, and more hormonally optimized, using less than what everybody else was throwing at the problem. He's not your hype guy. He's not selling you a transformation photo. He's just one of those people in this space who can actually sit down and tell you exactly why something is working or not working down to the cellular level and then actually fix it. These days, through the Elite Coaching Academy, he's channeling all of that into mentoring the next generation of elite coaches, helping them build businesses and skill sets that are genuinely world class. He hosts the Elites Coaching class and the Grow or Guy podcast, which has amassed millions of downloads and build a community of coaches and athletes who are serious about doing this at the highest level. Justin is direct, he is precise, and he does not waste your time, which is exactly why I'm wanting him on the show. Justin, welcome to the Opticast, brother.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Nathan, thank you. What an introduction, man. Let's let's hope I can live up to that hype. That was good, man. Like I feel like I'm about to walk into it to like a boxing ring. Yeah, dude. Let's get it.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

I'm I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna start asking you some some tough questions. This is a this is a new format that I have, and I'm like, Justin is gonna be the perfect one. So Justin, I wanna but my favorite horror movie is actually Saw. I I love the Saw series. I'm I'm just I'm just a weirdo like that. And um, I want to play a game today, okay? Let's do it. The game that we're playing is fuck Mary Kill. So this is the hardest, the hardest game that you've ever played in your entire life. Okay, fuck Mary Kill. Vitamin B1, Progest E and T. No.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

I'm fucking T3, I'm marrying Pro Jesse C, and I gotta kill B1. Oh fuck. Okay, I know. And now I wanna now I want to do that to myself. So Okay, so let's let's start with the kill, B1. Why, why? Because if I can supplement with with T3 and Pro Jess E, uh, I can make up for B1 in other ways. Like, how much wild caught salmon can I consume? And I guess I've got to add a little bit of pork back to my diet. But I can't get that same result elsewhere from the Pro Jesse and the T3 gonna be really difficult to do that. But man, I love I love me some B1. Holy cow. What is it about B1 that fascinates you so much? Uh man, many things. Uh you I I think what really drove my first fascination was it's if you eat carbohydrates, you start feeling sluggish after a meal, it's only because you're B1 depleted, period. Well, wow, how many people have that issue? And then you start getting into the gut health effects and the positive effects that we know that it has on things like cybo and any sort of dysbiosis on candida, that we can bring this in right away and make a gigantic difference. Then you start tracking people's body temperatures. The only thing that changed was they added in some B1 or recently with imminent, we dropped that salar ignition. And it's like, damn, after one dose or a 0.4 degrees, that literally means your body after one dose is is working at a 5% to 6% better output. Like that's absolutely fascinating to me. And then you add in just, you know, the the downstream effects it does have on metabolic health, including T3. It's like, man, that's that's a big one. Like that's a really important one.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Absolutely love me some thiamine. Yeah. Now, well, now what what do you think it's the people who are missing out when they're just taking uh, you know, like a B vitamin complex? Because I I I've looked at some man, finding a good B vitamin complex is almost impossible. Like the amount of them that have like 4,000, you know, percent the daily value of uh the daily needs for vitamin B6, which is going to cause nerve problems in the future, is just like insane. It's so difficult. Like, why would you do you do you normally prefer to go like each vitamin like for its own supplement, or do you go for a blend or something like that?

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Yeah. Really challenging to get an extremely comprehensive B vitamin supplement to make sure that we're actually getting everything we need. But also, I mean, the B1 dosage is just quite low. We there's no customization to that. And I prefer being able to dive into what is it, what's the exact thing that we need, what's the exact issue that we're having. I approach it from a symptomatology first approach. Okay, you eat carbs and you're sluggish. I know what's going on. Yeah, I know what's happening. You don't need an overload of B2. No, we don't. And you know, a lot of people do have that. And anytime, you know, I've definitely never seen an overdose of vitamin B1. Yeah. You know, with B6 to your point, with B12, that very much so could be a thing. And I like being able to control the individual variables that all drive into the overarching goal of maybe physique improvement or fixing something like Hashimoto's or fixing gut health issues or just simply improving the way PEDs work in your body. I want to get granular with the with the single individual variables. And I, you know, I can't really do that with blends. Now, like, you know, what we're making in terms of the formulations to imminent, I feel super confident about. And also, you know, I try to keep everything to a minimal. Like the sailor ignition, right? Like we just have the cofactors for B1 that's thrown in there with it. Right. But you know, an issue, here's an example. Like, let's say, and this isn't a blanket one size fits all what this is, is this could be happening to you if let's say you're taking zinc as a standalone and you take this zinc in, but you don't take any cofactors with it. Well, where is your body gonna pull those cofactors from once it absorbs the zinc? You didn't take any with it, it's gonna pull it from your body. So now this is why it's very easy to become like copper deficient, if you will. So I want to be super careful with kind of how we move supplementation, peptides, PEDs, all that stuff. I want to be super careful with it. And the reality is, man, if we have a really dialed, flexible diet, then a lot of this can be and be compensated for in the diet. The issue is you know, to get adequate beef pork, you gotta eat a lot of salmon, like salmon, but like, man, not that much. B1 is very challenging to get what we need just from a diet. So that's why I I like supplementing the fat more than maybe other things.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Yeah, I eat salmon every day and I still can't meet the the B1 requirements there. So it's challenging. And you you you chose to uh you chose to have fun with the teeth um instead of marrying it. What what was the decision making there?

SPEAKER_02 8:06

But you know, everything else is downstream from our metabolic health, right? So if if my cholesterol stays, you know, where it's at right now, about 210 to 240 is where I typically am, well, I can get downstream progesterone, you know. But the reality is I can also greatly increase and manipulate my metabolic health through having progester, which is why I want to marry that one. And the alloprenenolone effects, you know, I'm running two companies, it takes a lot out of me. I mean, it's decently high stress. My cortisol in my labs is pretty dang good. And also gonna be really challenging to get the allopregnenolone, which I know is so important for my brain health. So that's why I went I want the progesterone to marry it. That'll be my forever. And, you know, if you supplement with T3 for about six months, and if T3 is my six-month fuck buddy, then my metabolism is gonna be pretty good and well trained. It actually doesn't shut you down the way a lot of people might think it does.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Uh so maybe I could just fuck T3 for six months every year and be good.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Side bitch. Just just just keep it on the call, you know? Hey, I'm in need. All right, so I have another one. This one is keep, kill, and rewrite. So you keep one thing just as is, you kill one forever, and you rewrite one so it becomes actually useful, okay? Let's do it. Cholesterol, dairy, psycho.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Yeah. Kill psycho, rewrite cholesterol, and then um keep dairy. Okay. That was a hard one too.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Let's rewrite cholesterol. Let's rewrite cholesterol.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Yeah. The thought that your body would naturally, under any sort of healthful circumstance, be creating something that's going to, that's going to kill you is completely outrageous. Yeah. You know, there's way, I mean, there's just way too much just overwhelming evidence of what cholesterol does versus what it doesn't do, of what LDL does, which is not cholesterol, but what LDL does and what it doesn't do. Like we know, we know that cholesterol is very important for many factors in our body. And the the lowering of this, the artificial lowering of this, the suppression, rather than looking at what's driving it to act in maybe a way that's not helpful for us, driven by insulin resistance, driven by oxidized linoleic acid, driven by being way too fucking fat, driven by having poor metabolic health, driven by factors like alcohol and smoking and all of that. It's kind of outrageous to blame cholesterol for something that it's just simply responding to the environment that you put it into. When we do know it's important. Uh and then, you know, obviously, what was it? Kill not kill. What was it? What did I do with psycho? Keep, kill, and rewrite. Yeah, kill. Like obviously killing psycho, like that's pretty straightforward. Like you, it it's impossible to measure. It's it's not like a real, like, that's not how metabolism works whatsoever. It's it's like we know in bodybuilding from seeing how many people can recomphysique. We know from seeing what happens after you go through a calorie deficit and then you do a diet break. We know that like psycho is just such an oversimplify, it's not even oversimplification, it's just not accurate. Like at all. You also cannot measure it. You you simply cannot. Psycho's very, very poor misunderstanding of how the human body works, which is a very dynamic, it's not a linear, it's not an A to B psycho. Makes it so A to B. The human body is not that at all. It's a it's a mystical and it's a magical function of the world, and but it is definitely not some A to B eat this, I output this, this effect, how that's not real. And if it was real, then so so actually let me take let me walk that back. Psycho is very easy to use to gaslight people into well, you're cheating on your diet, like, dude, deadass, y'all really think by choice that that every single person who's a little bit overweight is just simply eating more than they burn. Because man, I get to well, I get to a pretty serious gym now. I I used to go to like Lifetime Fitness, and it's like, man, I see these people working. Do I really believe that 100% of you's bodies not changing due to psycho? Like this is that's psycho. What that is is psycho. Um uh it's definitely a great tool to manipulate and gas light people. And then what was the other one? Keep dairy. Well, you know what? What's up with dairy? If if people want to believe that that you know all dairy is created equally and that dairy's uh that dairy doesn't have gigantic benefits when it's consumed in its appropriate manner, which is obviously too over traditional dairy, then you know what by all means. I've kind of come around to that. Hey, you know what? You want to take satins, you want to eat oxidized seed oils, you want to skip dairy, you want to believe in sight, do it. Yeah, let them let them, that just makes it easier for me to beat you.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and just now, now at the same time, like we we we know that for a lot of people, that overly simplistic framework, it works. Uh, for a lot of people, they're able to lose a lot of weight, like even crazy transformations where people just, you know, download my fitness pal and then they lose 150 pounds and stuff. But it doesn't work for everyone. I I I I shared this story before, but I had a client who was not losing weight on 900 calories and he was not cheating, man. He sent me pictures of his meals, he sent me videos of him cooking because I was like, there's no fucking way, dude. Um, and it's just like it wasn't moving. So I pulled him out of the caloric deficit and I ran a full mitochondrial phase with him, and then he started losing weight on 2400 calories. Yeah how the fuck does that happen? Like, yeah, how is it that both things can be true that for some people it seems that psycho is almost enough? And then for certain people, it's like it just defies the laws of thermodynamics, seemingly, you know?

SPEAKER_02 13:59

Yeah. Well, you have to take into account the body's ability to generate ATP. And the body's ability to generate ATP is a direct reflection of cellular health, which is a direct reflection of mitochondrial health, which is a direct reflection of metabolic health, which is a direct direct reflection of hormonal health and gut health and liver health and all these things. So if somebody can digest really well, can and and then can um uh conjugate hormones really well, and they can uh detox the body from the waste really well, and somebody can generate ATP really well, and someone can all that, man, it's really, really easy to it's easy to build muscle, it's easy to lose body fat, it's easy to lose weight, it's easy to have clear skin, it's easy to not lose hair, it's easy to like all this stuff, right? Man, the amount of people that are able to do that, we know it's very, very low. Man, I forget. My gosh, I'm rusty on this. I haven't referenced it in a while, but a couple years ago, I had somebody on the GrowDye podcast we were chatting about. At the time, it was 88% of people categorized were categorized as metabolically unhealthy. So if you know if we're showing going by that number, that means about 12% of people live on that side of the equation. But now also I will say there are some people who just eat like shit. Yeah. And if they just simply stopped eating like shit, their body would change. Right. But what we're who we're talking about, who we focus on, who follows our stuff is people who like they are doing a lot of stuff right. And they are honestly probably hitting the 80-20, 85, 15, 90, 10. Like, those are the people that we really want to talk to and really uh help. But that yeah, there's some people that are just living like shit. No, yeah. The other side of that is what about the people that can just live like shit, do nothing, eat like shit, yada yada, and like they just don't gain body fat. Man, a lot of those people are in a really cortisol-driven state. And that can burn, that can force a lot of energy to be burned as well. But and also we need to understand if we're in that state, how much are we actually actually absorbing the food that we take in? So that's an exciting again, like like back to the psycho thing. You have no idea how much of the food you're consuming is getting absorbed and utilized in the body. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I I I I ran a GI phase for the first time it was a proper GI phase. I I I ran uh just a modified version of your protocol. Yeah. And um, like I was eating 4,400 calories to maintain my weight, and now I maintain my weight on 3,000 calories. Isn't that amazing? Holy shit.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

I had a similar experience. I was wasting so much money on that shit. Amazing. Yeah, that's amazing. When you know, a lot of bodybuilders are doing that. You know, I I chatted about uh I don't know, it was maybe a couple years ago also, about like you really aren't gonna need 400 grams of protein a day to grow. And if you do need that, it's gonna be really difficult for it's gonna be difficult on a lot of things in your body. Well, yeah, it's great for producing a lot of ammonia. It's awesome. A lot of ammonia. Like, I like amino acid diversity. I like getting gut health absolutely dialed. I mean, I've maintained a lot of my strength um over the last year. I probably eat 150, 200 grams of protein a day, and I was over 250 for a majority of the year. So you you you don't need to like over overdo it there. And carbohydrates, carbohydrates can be anabolic in their own right. Um they they uh spare amino acids, right? So you know that there's again that there's many ways that uh skin the cat, or I guess climb the mountain if somebody's politically correct around here. But um uh the the oversimplification of psycho, the the reality that thermodynamics are different for so many people is quite fascinating. Um, and there's also just so many environmental factors that play into this that uh you know, we we need to be able to view this um view this in a much more broad manner than I think we are right now.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Yeah, I think people just in general, um I mean I don't wanna I don't I don't wanna sound arrogant, right? Because I also don't have a lot of experience. I'm I'm pretty new into space and I have to recognize that, but it seems to me that people just lack experience in terms of diversity of clients, that they just like they haven't come across some difficult cases. Like, like man, I I had a client this week doing absolutely great, doing everything perfect, following the protocol to a T, and then just randomly sends me a bunch of photos of just blotches of shit everywhere in her skin and everything. And I was like, What the fuck is going on? Oh, yeah, it was a full moon. Fucking parasites, you know, no shit. Like that connection is just something that's you know, like most people wouldn't even like a chicken and rice coach, he wouldn't he would say, like, no, you cheated on your diet, stop lying to yourself.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

You know, it's like a chicken and rice coach is an absolute banger of an adjective. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Yeah, it's from my it's from um it's from Mike White. But since I heard him talking about it, I was like, dude, that's great because that literally is the totality of the toolboxes, like everything inside the toolbox that a lot of coaches have. And then these coincidentally are the same coaches who are charging fucking $200 a month and then complaining that can't really grow their business because their clients are just people who can't commit, people who just say they want to do it, but then they don't do it, and then they get ghosted, and then they block payments and all of this type of shit. And it's just like, I don't know, I don't deal with that. Uh you know, like it seems to me that I'm solving like different problems than you guys, so maybe just focus elsewhere, you know.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

If you solve expensive problems, you work with way better people and make way more money.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Now let's go to the next one here. So this one is overrated, underrated, and dangerous. Peptide edition to make it hard.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Let's see.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Uh man, a peptide that would be dangerous? Yeah, I I have some things in mind, but I but I but I but I I want to let you let you sit with this one.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

So, I mean, anything that gets abused can end up in danger. Overrated. Uh, I mean, red at true tide for getting peeled is very overrated. Reddit true tide for getting lean is one thing, but give we we're talking about getting peeled. Yeah. We're gonna see, you know, it's interesting since I don't coach people anymore. Reddit gets you to a certain place, but man, that thing getting you like an open bodybuilder stage ready is gonna be really difficult. Yeah. It'll get you to a good place, getting a stage ready, but then the issue is coming off and you know, having some other stuff happen at the the the deep point of prep. So I'm gonna say to be controversial and contrarian, because since I like to be, I'm gonna put Reddit there. Underrated? Man, that's too that's too easy of one. I'm a big Moth C guy. Okay. That's I could just go on for a long time about Moth C. It's really nice. I had someone less. Can I can I go uh can can I go can I add to an overrated one? Can I add men taking Tessamorelin? That's very feminine. Take growth hormone like a real man. And like, don't don't do that. It's fucking seed, like that's just weird. Let's see. Actually, no, I'm gonna say this. It's the most talked about one by Miles, and I still don't believe people value it for what it actually is. People believe that BPC is for the gut health or for recovery, and I'm like, what about BPC's effect on the brain and the dopaminergic system? Holy cow, we are really undervaluing BPC, and I would buy stock in that now because that price should be like quadruple what it is, and maybe one day it will be. Dangerous is challenging.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Man, what's your dangerous one? So I have a few. One GOP1s are peptide, so that could be very dangerous depending on the dose, right? So that's a that's an easy one, but I but I don't want to go with that one. The data on cardiac issues for melanotin two, I think it's kind of interesting. Okay, which is which is one of the reasons that um that they isolated PT141 from it in the way that they did. So that's what I feel like people don't really think about because they focus so much on the evidence regarding melanoma, um, that seems to be a little bit converted. polluted, but um I I I think that one is something that's uh it's a risk that people should consider. And I and I also think that in general, whenever we're talking about mitochondrial peptides, we have to recognize the risk of outpacing the supply with the demand that we actually have and end up overspinning the mitochondria, you know?

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Like SS31, Matsy. I mean, even like you've talked about ivermectin, you know what I really like? I love Carterine.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Man, I haven't used it, but I have it. I I bought it and I'm like I want to run this shit on a on a fat loss phase which I'm on right now.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Yeah I absolutely love it. It honestly does make cardio like a breeze. I feel like SLU whenever I've used SLU I honestly have an experience shit. What what what dose did you use? I didn't go over 500 mics I do know that. Shit, okay I went to 500 milligrams. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Wow cardio dude my my heart rate was like 180 and I'm like this yeah yeah dude like cardin just makes it feel like it can go on forever.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

I really like cartering I've also used cartering for a really long time so there also could be like a mental effect like dude I've used it for so fucking long but I recently brought it in maybe a month ago and it's like man I can just walk forever I can do the elliptical forever I just like don't really get out of breath even though I'm pushing it really hard. I like cartering a lot. Yeah so do it even fit inside of a sexual enhancement protocol there.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Dude it absolutely could yeah it certainly could miss some cardine a little vitamin B5 a little Cialis we're ripping yeah yeah yeah some PT1 for one and since this is my audience here you can even sprinkle some molly on top of it and you know let's do it let's go I'm locked in now if you were if you were trying to build an absolute monster of a fucking bodybuilder so you're trying to get this guy from 200 pounds you know 12% body fat all the way to like 250 peeled on stage over the course of like three to five years what would you put him on? Let's assume that he he's taken let's say 1.7 to like 2.1 grams of gear he can do like 15 units of g age and uh yeah to to to to make things easier he also takes T3 because he understands the evidence so he's not terrified of losing muscle.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Yeah you know so I've done this quite a few times in my career. I think I might be able to speak on this with a little authority. I never took someone over six I use a growth hormone a day. Never had to because I'm gonna make sure your gut health is so fucking insane. I'm gonna make sure your liver is so fucking ready. I'm just gonna make sure that you're so dialed from the inside that when I give you a little bit it goes to be a lot. So you know we're gonna use some Lantis absolutely we're gonna use some Lantis we're definitely going to be using some T3. We are gonna be using like here and there when we're really pushing things super hard we'll be using some sort of mitochondrial peptide you know a low dose retta during a building phase can be absolutely amazing. You do a low dose retta and lantis yeah okay yeah absolutely um let's see and then obviously testosterone I love the anadroll nPP is gonna be here and there I cycle if it's not testosterone testosterone is obviously the base oh I'm definitely gonna use some trestolone absolutely oh I love trust really absolutely you can always want like negatively to like the estrogen side effects and stuff no but I also run it really low dose in people. Okay okay like I mean we're talking we're talking what 20 megs two or three times a week okay the issues I see with trestolone is usually if actually it's quite fascinating if testosterone's too low and I wouldn't bring trestoline unless testosterone's pretty dang high I see a lot more issues happen when testosterone's quite low. You know outside of those three like the test the anadrol the trestolone everything else is pretty open for debate. I also I I just I believe in I believe in tapering training. I believe in circadian health I believe very much so in internal health I mean I'm thinking when I was training you know Reagan the he won the NPC National Championship in 2025 I think you know when I was training him like man I I've chatted about on podcasts before and I can't remember off the top people are amazed with how little gear he was taking and it's because we had the internal so dialed like he was so fucking healthy internally I love using cardio year round. I mean cardio will only help you build muscle if it's used appropriately when guys get really big I I pull training down right away like we're talking we're gonna train three or four days a week like we are going to recover our nervous system's going to recover body's going to recover like we're going to be locked in on again dude muscle growth simple muscle protein synthesis has to outweigh muscle protein breakdown period that is muscle growth so if I'm training six days a week and I'm that gigantic and my nervous system's beat to shit the odds of me actually being able to keep the synthesis to breakdown ratio where I want it to be quite low. But if I pull you to four days a week I can make sure that that synthesis to breakdown ratio is really freaking good. And when we're in the gym we're gonna break that shit down we're gonna be uh I like moving fast I always liked moving but not always at the end of my career I liked moving fast like let's rip through this um let's superset like let's really get after it in the gym take every single set to true failure if you can do that and you're applying maximum stimulus it doesn't matter how much volume you do how much weight you do yada yada how much stimulus can you apply? Yeah if you can apply a fuck ton of stimulus to the body and then you go recover from it you're going to grow. Yeah so I was never this big gear guy just I well no that that's not true. I was and then I learned that that's not the route. The synergy of understanding how all of these things work together I mean dude I didn't use many peptides and whatnot and perhaps at all man I just went I'm not gonna lie thinking back on it now I I don't think about it much I don't coach people anymore but it's kind of impressive what I was able to do without having very high gear because you know I uh I cared about my guys man I I I cared a lot about my guys you know like 2023 I was definitely 2022 2023 I think 2022 is when I was like push the gear push push push and I think 2023 was around the time I was like wait no one's actually getting better from doing this and I had a lot of big guys at the time it's like okay there needs to be something else here and that's when I started going way deeper into the gut health stuff and you know my guys are waking up drinking the ACV the aloe vera juice the bone broth oh man there was something else that I had in there I can't can't remember off the top of my head like we're we have a very diverse diet. We're not pushing food this crazy high if if you can't finish the meal don't fucking force it it's not good entrainment for your nervous system or your gut health like man I did a lot of shit kind of ass backwards but you know there for a couple years I was you know easily one of the top coaches in the world so say that it worked. I I you know like I think you said you know I have 1.72 grams to play with like I can't remember the exact number I think Reagan was only 1.5 max I I it was not over that when he won the national championships. It just wasn't needed. Yeah and I was like Wilson Hodges definitely wasn't either Simon wasn't yeah man I it's to finish the thought gut and liver health matters.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Yeah no it matters a lot and I think it's underappreciated you know whenever you hear an interview of someone talking about like hey what changed because every year you added three pounds five pounds of stage weight and in one year you added fucking 19 what the fuck happened usually the answer is not gear. The answer we kept gear the same but then we focused on sleep we focused on cardio we focused on recovery body work and all of these other things and like eating without like working just like doing breath work and all of this type of shit and it's like people don't want to hear that.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

They really don't they they they want to know that like okay so if I just up it by like 40% then the gains are definitely going to show up and it's just it never plays out you just feel like shit and you just get inflammation everywhere you get acne your dick doesn't work and just like it just it's not the you bring up a good point you bring up a good point about uh man I was all of my guys I had them doing circadian training I had them all grounding like man you know you tell a 290 pound body butter to go grounding and there's you know typically not all of them are going to take it the way my guys did but it you know they had a a level of trust in in me they knew I cared about them and they were like all right I'll try this shit but then you know fuck you start seeing it work and it's like all right they maybe there's something to this maybe there's shit weird after late days doing Epsom salt baths uh and yeah yeah yeah you're you're taking me down memory lane here is kind of making me want to it's kind of making me want to hop back in yeah yeah man oh that's funny what do you see as like the main issue with like focusing so much on drugs is that no one's ever training all that great and no one's ever no one's recovering all that great your muscle growth is as much a nervous system thing probably more a nervous system thing than it is anything else so if your nervous system's just fucking shot then the signal for growth to occur is just simply not going to be there. Your body's under too much stress for your body's trying to regulate this nervous system let alone regulate your body give a shit about building muscle it cares about like feeling safe yeah so so so I think that it's just it's so sexy to love drugs and to want to use more and dude like don't get me wrong I did this for a very long time in my career and it it got me to wherever place that it did and I'm grateful for those experiences good and bad it's I rarely see people training their fucking ass off really actually truly taking a set to a place where they're fucking risking it. Dude I'll I'll I'll I'll tell a a quick story one of my video editors is here with me Thomas we were training partners for a while Thomas is absolutely gigantic um he said like 280 back in uh like he was like 305 or something I was like 295 and we were just getting after it just fucking cranking and it's hard to understand this unless you're you they're like you haven't been it that there was some sets that we would go into at the gym and it's like God I got chill seeing about this shit. It's like I'm I'm risking my fucking life right now. Yeah I'm about to get pinned I'm I could not walk after this yeah all right taking a set to that point might be a little crazy we have no regrets we have a lot of injuries we have no fucking regrets we loved it but if you're not able to go to that place where it's like I'm laying this shit on a fucking line right now then no drug sack would be able to really help you. Yeah and now you know it might not be true for everybody actually there's a lot of guys that don't don't train all that crazy hard and they have insane physiques but you know that's what body bodybuilding is about fucking training man. Bodybuilding is about put the load on your back and see how many times you can stand up from from your hamstrings being dug into your calves and then when I see how far you can go there and if I see that you're a little bit fucking psychopathic then I know you can be a good bodybuilder. And if I see a dip out if you're at the top of that squat and you're 50-50 on if you can come up and you rack that thing I know where you're at. I know you're gonna be easy to beat but I know where you're at.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

And also dude it's not like it's healthy taking it to that point. I have none of that left in me anymore. I have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Well you're also that that it's one one of the reasons why I tell people it's so hard to be an entrepreneur and a bodybuilder at the same time is because the training that bodybuilding demands from you sucks the fucking life out of you in terms of business and everything that you have. So I talked to my wife last week and I was like how the fuck do you work after a leg day? Because like I can't I can bear I just want to sleep like what the fuck yeah I mean the rest of the day you're just completely fried.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Like your your brain is fully fried. Yeah yeah but you know like like again nervous system nervous system nervous system nervous system muscle growth muscle recovery this is a nervous system function and we don't quite understand it in my opinion we don't understand it to the manner that we need to but like you can really feel it after when you lay it on the line at the gym it's like oh yeah this this makes sense this is a nervous system thing yeah just as much as a musculoskeletal system thing yeah I was I was I was talking to my therapist about this on on how like how much I can like get into something just by thinking about it.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

And like I would I would like ask my wife like hey come spot me on the leg press and I'm feeling pretty good right I'm rested I'm ready to go the moment that I sit down I already start feeling a little bit anxious and then I'll I'll I'll put my legs I'll put my feet on the platform and I can literally feel my heart rate going all the way the fuck up because I know it's gonna hurt so fucking bad man it's gonna suck the entire fucking time nonstop you know it is and other people won't take it there and how empowering is that yeah yeah because uh because every time that I see other people training I'm like you guys don't have shit on me dog I can go so much farther. It's gonna be so easy to win that battle. Yeah yeah absolutely I had um I had a guy uh last week just you know he he started training about a year ago but just plenty fitness and then he moved to a bodybuilding gym and he's already learning some stuff here and there but I saw him training last week and uh he was doing leg extensions and uh he was he was like it looked like it was painful but then it was the reps looked all the same and he ended the set and I legitimately just I was like dude what the fuck was that like I was kind of pissed off and he was like dude I can't do it anymore and I was like okay gun to your head no better gun to your family's head you telling me you didn't have 10 more fucking reps in you he's like no I could probably do it and I'm like exactly so I took him to a chest day and uh we only did four sets of chest only did four sets and he was like dude I've never had a pump this big like this has been insane I've never had something ever happen to me like this so the day after he's like dude I'm so sore can I pay you to teach me how to like train the legs because my joints hurt but I've never gotten sore from training legs and I'm like yeah bro I got you don't worry don't worry about paying me I'm just gonna take you through an actual leg day I I hope you can survive a real leg day like good luck exactly bring a button that's awesome bring a button I I it's making me miss doing this stuff. Yeah yeah yeah yeah no for most days I actually have to control myself pretty well just because otherwise I can't do anything for the business so I I I just have to I train very similar to Eric uh Janicki just like I'm not familiar okay it's just like very very slow negatives pausing at the bottom for a really long time and then moving over to the top like and contracting full time like keeping the tension on at all the time um it works really well for me like for my like my body parts have just been fucking blowing up and uh that's the only thing that I changed really now now I that's not the only thing that I changed. I changed something else and I we could talk about this because I've been I've been talking about this on on the internet and people are very interested in it but they're also kind of pissed off and they just tell me that I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. Because on the previous on the previous growth phase the only like thing the gear doses were the same training changed a little bit but it was just tempo changes not volume yeah I added T3 at 37 micrograms per day and according to the internet you're supposed to lose muscle when you go on something over 12 micrograms. However when I look at the evidence when I'm trying to understand like oh we have T3 receptors inside of the muscle and we have T3 receptors inside of the mitochondria which is going to power the ATP that's needed for contractions and all of these things like when it makes sense that T3 is actually anabolic like what is your take here T3 is absolutely anabolic unless it's overused of course right unless we're burning too much.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

But T3 also requires just cofactors as a whole things like you know selenium, iodine potassium so on and so forth. Like wish when I wish when I was bodybuilding I knew what I know now about T I definitely would have been healthier definitely would have been a better bodybuilder but like I was under the assumption that it's catabolic I was under the assumption you lose it in a fat or you use it in a fat loss phase. No something that helps you create ATP in a more efficient easier manner helps you build more muscle again nervous system strain liver strain gut strain all of that gets helped by your overall body performance gets helped by T3 I use it year round now I wish I would have used it year round then definitely would have been a lot better and also anything that the that the internet thinks in terms of a popular opinion about muscle building or fat loss if it's popular opinion on the internet then it's 100% wrong it is not accurate.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Actually anything they believe is popular do the opposite you're gonna go really far dude you know what everyone who wants to bodybuild you can you you don't even need a coach anymore go to the internet find what's popular do the opposite and domination dude it's crazy because like I see these coaches who talk about themselves as being like old school so they don't really fuck with T3 a lot and I'm like wait wait wait wait wait old school these motherfuckers were taking a hundred micrograms of T3 during prep what do you mean you're afraid of taking T3 like and and and back in the day people weren't complaining about losing muscle everybody just showed a peel to the bone they did they did a hundred micrograms is shit telling you a lot of stress on the heart like you know unfortunately when I was a coach there were some people that did that that that you know unfortunately shit as a competitor I've been over that and all that means is you're you're making you're overcompensating for so much other stuff if you have to take it that far sure sure you know you you are and also in bodybuilding there is no black and white you know what in bodybuilding you go into a bodybuilding prep what the fuck's your goal you trying to be fucking healthy or you trying to win a goddamn show you can only be healthy yeah like you know we can we can play stupid games and win stupid prizes i.e fifth place blake in bodybuilding you're trying to win a goddamn show and i i have a joke my first ever open bodybuilding prep my my meal one was uh one egg white and lick a few almonds and you know what's that's not far from what meal one was but if that's what you have to do to win a goddamn show then you fucking do it uh so you know it's also like should you have to take Hutter Bikes T3 no do you win a fuck did you win the goddamn show yeah and that's what you had to do exactly exactly yeah there's there there's no fucking guy on the Red Bull and on the on the Red Bull team asking like what's the safest way for me to do this like I want to do it but I want to also like guarantee that I can live to a hundred I'm like yeah no one's asking those questions just in bodybuilding for some reason and I I think that's perhaps because people are half ass committed to it so they like they don't know what they want. They they think they want to do bodybuilding but in reality they just want to look better than everybody else which you don't need to do bodybuilding for that you can just hop on CRT and get someone that actually knows what they're doing and then maximize you know that those levers there you know yeah but and also you know it's great for bodybuilding for for the uh for the business of bodybuilding and it's great for the business of bodybuilding coaches that so many people just want to look better than everyone else and they mask it behind bodybuilding.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

So I'm like shit yeah you know keep doing it so everyone else can make money.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Yeah it also masks a lot of bad coaching because you can just put people on gear since it's fine it's not that bad you know it's like because you couldn't do a transformation naturally you couldn't just take someone to the next level on TRT. Like I I have one client that put on 30 fucking pounds and he's lean as shit and we're taking 25 milligrams of test a day.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

That's it. Yeah your first cycle you're gonna get results man my God if I go back to my first cycle and I knew this you're gonna get results that will never ever ever ever ever ever happen again. So you better be locked in to make this as wild as it can be.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

Yeah and I've had I've had clients that uh we were about to start a cycle and then I noticed that the diet was starting to slip off or the recovery was starting to slip off and every single time I said nope we're not doing it. You're not doing it because you know the shit that you need to do. So we're I'm not gonna let you fuck up your entire endocrine system just for a few weeks so that you can like oh now I'm gonna lock in. No, you need to lock in in the in-between phases that's what's gonna make or break it because over the course of 10 years how many eight to 12 week health phases do you have there? Like that's years that you're leaving on the table because you're technically not on anything you know yep yep that's that's so so true and that's such a good point.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

And people and I I'm of the opinion that you can make the most progress during a health phase not in terms of how much muscle you put on but you can make the most progress in terms of the athlete that you're actually going to be because if you can stay locked in with discipline and extremely regimented when you know that we're probably gonna build a little less muscle in this phase but it's a slingshot effect and it's gonna make me go way forward in the next phase then carrying this discipline carrying these rules or the lifestyle into the next phase is going to be it's good it's gonna pay off so significantly. Yeah. I feel like it's it's a mental training to be able to stay locked in there, carry it to when we can push you like all you're gonna do is just be way better. So I feel like you can get you you should you should be doing your best bodybuilding in the health phase. And I'm not gonna lie when I was competing like I unfortunately did not do That but I had a lot of athletes that did, so I have the hindsight of what it did look like versus didn't look like.

SPEAKER_00 44:05

Yeah, yeah. No, you look at the structure of my health phase, and my clients are always like, wait, so which phase we're in? We're we're in a health phase. That's why we're leveraging peptides, that's why we're raising supplements, that's why we're doing cardio, because I want to pay off all of the debt that we've created with like your health, and then I want to prepare your body so that you're like zero, like you're ready to push as much as possible on the next phase here. And uh yeah, I I I like to change these variables and actually have a structure for each phase. I I do think that the whole just come off everything for a few weeks, it's it's intellectually lazy. It's just not like the body doesn't respond that way. You need to actually be proactive about this stuff. It's it's the recovery is not very passive. Your body doesn't just remember how to do things on its own, which is why things like bioregulators work, you know, because your body does forget how to do certain things. So you can on the genetic code itself, you can modulate those things and sort of remind the body how to actually do things the way that it was supposed to be doing in the first place, you know?

SPEAKER_02 44:59

Body response to stimulus. So if you push it really hard, if we push that throttle as hard as we can in this direction, the best way to regain that stimulus back to a baseline where we can then push again if I have to do so much is by pulling it the other direction. Yeah. Let it rest, let it recover, like let it have downtime. Yeah. Um, and and I, you know, I I think it's a great approach to bodybuilding by having like drastic, uh, a rather drastic health phase or off phase or you know, delo phase or whatever you want to call it. And during that phase, I pulled training way down. I make the diet super easy, we're much more flexible. But we never really pulled cardio down. Like keep up with the cardio. Yep. Yep. Keep up with your dang cardio. Why is cardio so important? Yeah. Well, it's obviously the most important muscle we have is our heart. And our heart supplies the blood flow, the blood flow supplies the nutrients, the nutrients supply the ability to actually not even grow muscle, the nutrients supply the ability for uh our cells to be able to operate in a manner that they need to. And then obviously from there, the blood blood flow even from your gut, from your liver. Like these, this is all fully reliant on that blood flow to your brain, your heart, and especially as you get bigger and bigger, things need more and more. And if you don't train your heart to be able to supply that, that's where the blood pressure goes up because it's trying to overcompensate. That's where we we're just simply our resting heart rate is pounding much harder. Um, but and also fuck all that. You start every single day with 30 minutes on the fucking elliptical, and you're gonna be a pretty disciplined and regimented person. Dude, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. It's just good for the the human to do.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Yeah, yeah. I wake up and the first thing that I do is shit that I don't want to do every time. I I go on these today. It was raining like a motherfucker, and I went on my walk. I just I have to, you know, I just it's just something that is required for my goals. So if I don't do it, I'm just never gonna get there. And and I think that can bring us to to the to the next part here, which is uh you you've hinted at this a couple of times on like doing the work that doing what is required and stuff like that. And I I get people, people ask me all the time, like, dude, how do you fucking produce so much? Like, how are you posting so much? How are you like making so many quarves and all of this shit all the time? And I said, like, dude, I know the amount of work that it's going to take for me to get to the level that I want to get. So I just imagine what is the person like the person who I want to be like, what have they done? They've worked 12 hour days, they've sacrificed so many things, so I have to do that. So I live like that person, so I'm literally following their footsteps. So I don't listen to my emotions, I don't listen to how I'm feeling, fuck all of that. I just obviously every now and then I I fucking crash entirely, and that's when I know I need a rest. Yeah, you know, but but that's uh that's sort of like my cue. My cue is like whenever I'm trying to like focus on client work and I just can't do anything at all anymore because I just feel like I'm fucking high and I'm definitely not because I'm on five grams of caffeine or some shit. Yeah, it just still doesn't work. I'm like, okay, probably need a day off or two or something like that. But um, yeah, what do you think it's actually required for someone to be successful in terms of the bodybuilding industry as a whole? Or just outside of bodybuilding, but just coaching in general.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Yeah, delayed gratification, doing a whole lot of work for very minimal reward, kind of being a slave to your goals. I like that sound. Being a slave to your goals is pretty adequate. If you can do that for a for a prolonged period of time, then you're probably gonna end up making it and becoming something. Delayed gratification, you know, obviously would go coincide with that. I remember early on there were so many people that were my age that were seemingly so far past me. Now I, you know, I've lapped them 10 times. And in the moment I got super discouraged, and like I'm never gonna make it, and like they have it easier, and I'm a victim, and I have circumstances against me, they don't have like this all bullshit. Being able to, you know, if sometimes you feel like a goddamn victim, you feel a little bit sorry for yourself, whatever, that's okay. Just pick yourself the fuck up and keep moving forward because the reality is the time's gonna pass anyway. So what the fuck are you gonna do with it? Are you gonna make the time count or are you gonna count the time? Because if you count the time, eventually you are the end of your life, you didn't even do anything with any of the time. But if you make the time count, then I mean you're living in the moment, you're you're getting better every single day, you're taking steps forward, you're finding love in the sport, if you will, not talking bodybuilding or actual sport, love and like I'm in it for the game, dude. I love winning the game. You you you you you really fighting discouragement. I feel discouraged every day about something. I'm not sure it'll ever go away. You just gotta be I guess the internal dialogue that you have with yourself uh has to be rock solid and it can be trained. I mean shit, mine used to be fucking terrible. That you know, a quote that I really like is depression can't hit a moving target, and I don't want to feel depressed, so why why not just keep moving? That's physically and mentally and spiritually as well. Like constantly move yourself.

SPEAKER_00 49:55

Yeah, I I guess if you just move. That's that's huge because I it's it's so much easier to move uh to a uh a ship that's already in movement or a car that's already in movement. And I I remember being on this call on a mentorship program before, and um this guy was like, Hey, I don't know what to do. I still haven't heard back from you guys, I still haven't posted anything, I don't know what to do. And I the whole time I was just like, Jesus fucking Christ, are you waiting for someone else to tell you what to do? Yeah, just do fucking something, dude.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

Waiting for people's permission.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

Yeah, at least you get the data, whether it's working or not, it's all relevant data, but you're so emotionally attached to your own business that you can't disconnect like your own, like, your own like um, like your own feelings from your post. So like when you when your post doesn't hit, you're like, oh man, I fucked up, or like, uh fuck these people. It's the platform, oh, it's the algorithm, or you know, it's like all this shit. It's like, no, you kind of suck at your job because you're starting and that's okay, but just recognize that and then just fucking keep pushing, just move in one fucking direction. Now I also think that fucking keep pushing. Yeah, and I also think that another one, another mistake here that people make is that they move a little bit too often, so they switch uh approaches and like strategies a little bit too often. So like you ask someone like, hey, why aren't you posting as much? And they say, Oh, I didn't see a return on my investment. How long were you posting more? It was like, oh, I did it for a month. And I was like, a month, bro. Like, everyone that has built something significant in this space has been doing this shit for 10 fucking years. What is a month? What is a month?

SPEAKER_02 51:19

I know, I know it's a month. I mean, uh what I've been posting for 11 years. Yeah, 11 years. Yeah, 11 years. Like, Jesus Christ, dude. Yep, that's a long time to think about. I still remember my first ever talking post on Instagram. I was a trainer at LA Fitness, I was like all of 180 pounds, and I had the shocking discovery of what happens if you mix a scoop of whey protein and a blender bottle with some coffee, and then you shake it up and you drink it, and it tastes like hot chocolate. And I was in this private, like part of the locker room at LA Fitness, like whispering to the camera because I was terrified of anyone hearing me. And I remember posting it and I thought it was so cool. And man, if I could find that post, that'd be hilarious. Yeah, but dude, everyone fucking starts somewhere. Yeah, dude. Everyone starts terrified. Like, do it before you're ready and do it when you're fucking scared. Because there's never going to be a right time.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:13

No, there's the only right time is right now.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

Yep. We are in the right time. Yep, yep, yep. My I uh I I had a a few people that have been asking me about a different type of program. And uh my like my wife was immediately like, do it, do it, just fucking do it. And I was like, I don't know if it's the right time, man. I feel like I just started this thing. I don't want to be a little bit too aggressive with this because of this and that and this and that. And then I talked to Dom, and Dom is like, do it. And then I talked to I talked to people at ECA and they were all like, do it, do it. I talked to you and you're like, do it. And I was like, okay, man, I guess I'm gonna do it, and it fucking works, you know. Yes, like that's doing it with like without feeling ready. I just I remember there's this song from this um, I forgot, oh, the channel is called How to ADHD. And the lady had done a song for herself, and it was basically like do it poorly, do it inconsistently, do it badly, but do it. Just fucking do it, man.

SPEAKER_02 53:07

Yep, yep. I absolutely love that. I mean, it's it's funny because like that's Nike's slogan, right? And it's so overused and so overset, but like the magic lies behind the work that you're constantly putting off and running away from. So why not just do it right now?

SPEAKER_00 53:20

Yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. And I I think that um what what what do you think about this? Like with the because because the majority of people who start in coaching, they quit. They they're not going to last. And it it seems to me like I'm starting to gather like a couple of things here and there, a couple of like signs, so to speak, of people who are just not going to make it. And it's like, I remember talking to some people about like some tools that I was using, and they were like, How are you doing all of this shit? And I was like, I don't even fucking know. I couldn't explain it to you, but I'm just using it. I'm just I'm just fucking doing it. Um and I and I remember talking to this one particular coach who was like, I don't have any clients. And I was like, have you reached out to your family? Have you reached out to your friends? Have you talked to your fucking doctor, your vet, like everyone? Have you offered to coach people for free? Have you offered like, no, I haven't done it. And guess what? She was also complaining about uh being not being able to pay for her bills. And when I asked, like, have you looked for a job? And she was like, No, because of this, this, and that. And I was like, Okay, dude, you just don't fucking want it. You just don't want it, and you haven't realized that yet. And it's so fucking sad because you're wasting so much time, you know.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

That's that's that's why everyone is so easy to be. They're just gonna sit there waiting for it, and I hope that it falls into my lap. And it's like, my God, I would love for something to fall into my lap. And with everything that I've built and the wins that I've had, nothing has definitely ever come like that. So I wouldn't recommend taking that approach to life. Actually, no, keep taking that approach so that you say easy to be. So that there's less competition for us.

SPEAKER_00 54:49

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred percent, man. And this is right here, like this right here is why I wanted Justin on the show. This is the level of thinking, the level of precision, and the level of genuine give a damn that uh almost never find you in this space. And and when you find it, you need to hold on to it. So, Justin, man, genuinely thank you. Thank you for your time, thank you for your honesty, thank you for not holding anything back. This is the kind of conversation that changes the way that people think, and that's all that I ever wanted this show to be. So, if you're not already followed Justin, you need to fix that shit right now. So get on Instagram, get into his world, go listen to the elite coaching cast. And uh, if you are a coach who's serious about building something real, you kind of need to look into ECA or you're just not serious about this shit. So don't sleep on it and to uh fast. And then to everyone listening, if this episode hits you, if you walked away thinking differently about just even one thing, do me a favor, share this, send it to someone who needs to hear it, leave a review, tell a friend, share it with someone. This show grows because of you, and I do not take that lightly for a single second. So thank you for every one of our supporters. We are back every single Friday with another interview of the highest level. No filler, no fluff, no waste of reps, just the highest quality interviews that I can bring you from the people who are actually doing it at the top. So make sure you're subscribed, make sure you have notifications on because you do not want to miss what is coming next. I am Nathan. This is the Opticast. Peace out, guys.

SPEAKER_03 56:11

See y'all.