How Human Optimization Connects with Religion, Philosophy, and Self-Development (Weekly Q&A)

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🎓 ABOUT THIS VIDEO 
Join us in this deep and wide-ranging discussion where we explore the interconnectedness of human optimization, spirituality, and societal narratives. Dive into insights on health, ethics, religious history, and the importance of dialogue across perspectives.

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🧠 TIMESTAMPS 
00:02 - Introduction to human optimization and the importance of narrative

01:25 - The complexity of understanding individuals beyond social media profiles

02:48 - Parallels between biological decay, religious metaphors, and personal growth

05:46 - The role of diversity and dialogue in advancing scientific and societal progress

06:45 - How drugs, compounds, and interventions reflect deeper human and ethical questions

07:45 - The spiritual dimensions of effort, patience, and authenticity in self-improvement

09:21 - The limitations of singular measurements like IGF-1 and testosterone levels

11:14 - Enhancement as an existential process, not just physiological

13:06 - Societal and political influences on religious and scientific narratives

15:16 - The necessity of embracing multiple perspectives and avoiding dogma

18:36 - The connection of the heart, brain, and soul in holistic health

19:06 - The importance of integrated, interdisciplinary understanding in human performance

20:20 - Historical context of religious coexistence and societal intersectionality

22:16 - The urgent need to bridge political, religious, and scientific divides

24:41 - The philosophical stance: understanding that science and religion are questions, not answers

25:11 - The role of paradox, contradiction, and humility in knowledge acquisition

28:21 - Critical view of reinterpretations and reconstructing religious texts and narratives

30:44 - The pitfalls of extrapolation and misinformation in biotech and supplement industries

32:59 - Scientific humility: realizing our limits in understanding peptides and signaling pathways

36:21 - Ethical considerations: integrity, trust, and transparency in health practices

38:45 - The state of peptide research, evidence, and future directions

44:12 - The significance of moderation, timing, and personalized protocols in enhancement

50:22 - Using AI and academic tools to deepen understanding of complex biological mechanisms

55:43 - Rethinking continuous supplementation and restoring body’s natural capacity

61:01 - The importance of individualized, biomarker-driven protocol design

67:34 - Navigating the complexities of medication, dependency, and pharmacology in optimization

74:31 - Blood work, markers, and the importance of holistic interpretation beyond surface levels

77:13 - The layered approach to sleep, including behavioral, environmental, and supplement strategies

84:01 - Strategies for reversing or stabilizing atherosclerosis using lifestyle and supplements

88:04 - Bridging anabolic phases with health and functional biomarkers for sustainable progress

92:15 - The systematic approach to treating hormonal, gut, and energy disruptions (MARCH framework)

97:17 - The significance of mindset, identity, and psychological health in sustainable human performance

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome, you guys, to another episode of the Opticast, the only God ordained podcast on human optimization on the entire stratosphere of this human earth, of this whole human life experience that we call this fucking something amazing. I don't even know what the fuck I'm saying anymore, but you guys already know the fucking introduction. This is what happens when I rip it off. And people are like, You read it off a script. I'm like, motherfucker, I have ADHD. This is what it looks like when I'm not using a fucking script. The script are my guide rails to make sure that I actually deliver the information that you guys are here for. But today, on our QA, you guys already know every Wednesday we're dropping a QA episode. Sometimes, uh, you know, most of the time we have Aubrey here. Aubrey, as you can tell, is not here right now. Uh, but Aubrey is my assistant, uh, also my uh, you know, my um what do they call it in Italian? My my guma, uh, my guma from uh the sopranos, and she's also my wife. Um, so uh she's my she's my partner. We we answer client questions every Wednesday, so you guys get a little bit of a of a sneak peek into like my process of like how I handle like client questions and things like that. But uh every now and then I'm bringing in some special guests to answer questions that I have from the people inside of my community on Instagram and stuff like that. So today is one of those special episodes. So, brother, Meta Muscle DXB. I I I've read your name, but I can't pronounce it apart from Ahmed, and I'm pretty sure I just butchered that pronunciation here because my gutturals are not very good. Um, but I I will I what what is your like what what is your actual name like how do I pronounce your full name?

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yeah, this this is the same name, Ahmed, like A-H-M-V-D. And then the last name. Uh okay, last name is is a little bit weird. It's uh Halaf, K-H-A-L-A-F. Half uh Khalaf. Halaf. Yes, yeah, exactly. You're you're the one of the unique people that they can get this right. Like that's good.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Yeah, six six years of ancient Near Eastern studies helps a little bit. A lot, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I I learned a little bit about the alphabet because I took Syriac as well, and Syriac was the transitional period, you know, whenever Arabic became the standard language for the scientific education, you know, it was uh it was a transition period there in the same way that we have with Coptic, the transition using the Greek alphabet, but the language is actually Egyptian, so uh those are two very, very interesting uh languages there. But we're not we're not gonna go down the rabbit hole of languages and everything. But dude, one of the things that I that I posted this week that you were like, we need to talk about this stuff, which is that I'm just I'm fucking tired. I am um, you know, like we talk so much about human optimization and everything, and and we talk about our our we talk about drugs, we're always researching about, you know, different compounds, different substances, learning about cascades and pathways and signaling and all this type of stuff, and uh, you know, just being completely blunt, uh, it it gets to a point that when you're reading this like 24-7 all day long non-stop for months, it just starts getting jumbled up together and it becomes sort of more confusing than it was before, you know. Um, and uh not only that, but it's like, dude, I just I'm I'm I'm such a like um I have so many interests, you know. Like I I I talk about so many different things. I like the people that know me, they can't put a finger on like who I am, but then on Instagram, people act like they know who I am, uh, because they know of this like one compartmentalized version of like what I do in my business. That's like, oh, that's the totality of who Nathan is. And uh to to jump a little bit into uh you know one of my backgrounds here, which is the study of religion, you see this happening in religion a lot. So, for instance, and for for Christians, we have the letters of Paul, which are 13 letters. Uh in academia, we don't really think that all 13 letters were written by Paul. The syntax, the grammar just doesn't make a lot of sense. So we think that there are seven undisputed letters of Paul. So you think about this like whenever people are talking about like, hey, this is what Paul thinks, this is who Paul is, Paul meant this and all this type of stuff, and we build our foundation on Paul. And like, some people will go as far as saying Paul invented Christianity, which I think it's correct because Jesus did not, he was he was very much in his own religious realm. And uh, when when when you start like thinking about it, it's like, dude, what do you mean you think you know someone based on seven letters? It's basically saying, like, hey, there are you know seven emails that just randomly survive from Ahmed that we just found in his computer after his passing, and just some of them are just fragments of a bunch of emails that someone has to put together. And now we act like I know who Ahmed is, I know exactly what Ahmed thinks. Whenever I have a question, I can just ask Ahmed, and like it applies to all areas of my life, and that's just absurd, it's insane to think that you know a person based off of like this one small little part of like their lives, you know. So that was a little bit of the frustration that I was that I was uh tackling into, which is like there's just so much more to to people in our in our optimization space, and there's also so much more to optimization that goes beyond just talking about fucking drugs and compounds. Like, this is uh like we're talking about like psychology, we're talking about the meaning of life, or like like all these things they intersect in a very, very special way. I have a an episode with BLP where we where I use the metaphor of a cathedral to explain why it is that it makes sense for us to be investing so much into our physique, knowing that that will become frail and decay, because it's it's the same thing with the cathedral, it's beautiful, it's amazing, but it will become frail and it will decay. It's art is not something that is meant to last forever, it is something that is meant to have an impact on something, uh, but it's not meant to last forever and it won't last forever. So, um, what what what were your thoughts like when you watched that video? You sent me some stuff, but I already forgot because that's what my brain is right now. But uh uh walk me through a little bit of that, bro.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Okay, so uh starting off from the the same thoughts as you uh as you um like you actually, like an artist trying to paint um a unique art that not everyone gonna understand. And let me start it from this way: not every single person gonna understand the reason behind you talking about this because themselves they didn't get versed with information, with knowledge more than you. And the problem always comes to the limitation that every person put himself under. So uh people sometimes like to uh know about drugs, know about um, you know, some medications to can help them to achieve some certain um look, some certain um optimization in their life, but they lack the knowledge of not only about how this drug can work in their body, but what you're gonna benefit from using that drug onwards to can have an impact in life. So it's not about how you can change your physique. And I and from the point that you said that okay, we are building a physique, but it's gonna decay, yes. But during the process of building a physique, we learn actual things about life. Uh first, uh you have the you have the the concept of losing fat and then gaining muscle. It's uh it is the same actually, uh some of uh spiritual uh aspects and some of uh religious aspects of uh gaining things by losing stuff or by putting effort. So when you try to connect to God, you need to put the effort to can be really connected. So you have to do some stuff, you have to do some prayers, and when you do some prayers, you have to do reading, you have to read the Bible, you have to read the Quran, you have to read the the religion that you are believing in. And within the process, it's the process, you have to believe in the process, and you don't believe in the results because sometimes the results can take longer. So you can, let's say, ask God for something, but the results get delayed. It's not about that he's not listening, it may be that you are not ready at this point and you need to wait and make yourself ready for it. So the whole process, it's just trying to make us learn a lot during that process. If we are talking about even the prep, uh during the prep, a lot of people suffer. But after they finish the prep, after they step on the stage, first of all, everything is the achievement that they did, it's just not only the goal to step on the stage, it's the pride that they get by having this courage to just stand there for seconds, and they have paid so much to can just stand there for only a matter of seconds under the judges that they take only like a couple of seconds to judge you. But during that process, you learn a lot. And this is the same way that we live in our life, especially when we get to know about ethics, about morals, you can get a shortcut, you can get something else, but with your own body, with your own biology, it doesn't work like that. If you go and steal money from someone, you can do it in real life, but in your own biology, you can't. You can't get to your body and tell them, okay, let me steal those fats. You can't. You have to put on the effort. So bodybuilding can actually actually tell tells us a lot and teach us a lot about ethics, about hard work, about patience, uh, can actually team us, can actually, you know, potentially a lot of even neurological um tendencies to can learn, to can help us function even better. If that makes sense. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

No, I think it makes a lot of sense, man. I think it makes a lot of sense. And I I have a series, I don't know if you've seen a couple of videos of of that on on Instagram, but I have a series on YouTube that I'm posting twice a day called Should You Do Steroids? And uh basically what I'm doing is um I'm I'm not going from the angle of that everyone goes, which is like, you know, it you need to think about fertility, you need to think about the fact that you your axis may not bounce back, you need to think about the fact that your liver, your heart, cardiovascular disease, and yada yada, like yeah, everyone fucking knows that. Everyone knows you got to do blood work, you gotta do what I'm interested in is in the existential aspect of enhancement because you are effectively changing your relationship with your own body, and that is something that I find extremely interesting. You're it's literally a communication flow that just changes entirely your sense of identity, your sense of belonging, how you relate to other human beings, how other human beings relate to yourself. You know, it's uh it's something that you notice. You you start getting a little bit bigger, and you are you are going in line at the grocery store, and then people give you the right of way, and it's like, what the fuck? That didn't used to happen like five months ago. Like, what is going on? Like, it just it changes everything from a perspective of um just the experience of life. It's not just as much as like it's not just a physiological process, it is, in my opinion, an existential process, and the physiology happens to live inside of it. And I think if you enter enhancement just from a purely physiological standpoint of just trying to become bigger, I honestly think you're missing out on a lot. I think I think that's so restrictive and myopic that um you're you're gonna miss out on the most beautiful things that enhancement has to offer because you got to remember, we're not gonna do this forever. We can't do this forever. So it's just a moment in time, it's just a snapshot. You're coming in. What is your goal? What are you trying to get out of? And like when you're going out, like do you already have it planned? What's gonna happen when you come out? Because you're gonna wither away unless you have an actual plan for what is going to happen. So I find that um that enhancement is just significantly more, and that's uh that's a series that I hope that it reaches the right people because uh I don't really see a lot of people talking about enhancement in this context, is always in the context of like health and stuff like that. But you know, I I just um yeah, I feel like there's there's more to it, you know. And um, you know, especially when it when it like on a on a separate note here, because you were mentioning uh, you know, the Quran. Are you are you uh Muslim?

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

So when I when I was in uh my my background is in the study of religions, and um uh the what I had to do was one of the things that a lot of people uh didn't like they act like they have done it, but they never did, which is actually read the freaking book. Um, so I I uh when I was doing the study of religion, we read you know, like every single book from the major religions, like all of the all of the like just the whole thing cover to cover with commentaries from the authors who are part of their religious system and everything. And I gained so much, I gained so much. I literally have a lot of papers that I'm drawing connections between the Bible and the Quran and and and learning from Islamic scholars and uh especially the ancient ones, because we we like our philosophical system relies so much on it, and I got a lot of backslash on that from the religious people, and similarly, you know, right now it's Pride Month, and I decided hey, there's a lot of research on trans people, these guys are essentially enhanced, these guys and girls are essentially enhanced. Like, we're testing out what happens when you put in androgens like on these people or when you suppress them, like that's really super fucking applicable to our population. I think like we kind of like owe a thing or two to like learn from these people and stuff like that, and people were losing their shit, they're losing their fucking minds. So, and I'm like, dude, I'm I'm not saying you need to adopt that political system. I'm no no one is saying that. I'm just saying, hey, there's a cool paper that we learned some shit about blood clots, about cholesterol and testosterone, about bone density and testosterone, about suppression of the axis. How long does it take to bounce back? What does estradiol do? What do entry how do ants anti-androgens actually act and and all of this type of stuff? So just uh I just I just want like our our our our our my podcast as a whole and my my my business as a whole to mimic and emulate what a healthy dialogue is in between um you know people with different views and stuff. And I like when it comes to religion, I have no dog in the fight. I literally, I literally believe in everything and nothing. I am uh I am uh uh a Paul. He became he became Roman for the Romans and Jew for the Jews, uh, you know, so to speak. I'm just like I'm just I'm just trying to learn. I learned so much from John Hicks. Uh, if you're if you're not familiar with John Hicks, he was um uh uh uh a philosopher who was also a universalist, so he drew a lot from learning from different religions and things like that. And I've learned a lot from that, a lot, and especially from Charles Taylor, who has uh written a book, a fantastic book called The Secular Age, is a 900-page dome of a book. Very, very hard to read, but very rewarding. There are even introductory books to be able to read this book, that's how complicated it is. Um, but like one of the things he talks about is like, well, in the secular age, things are different. You know, back in the day, we used to, you know, go to a uh a priest whenever there was an issue. Right now, you find people that find salvation literally a solution to their ailments through a bunch of things like yoga, like enhancement, like all of these different things, right? Like you see here people swearing about their about their gut protocols and how it changed their lives and things like that. And it's like we are in a different age, we are in a different time. And I think that that is not to say that you know whatever is ancient is no longer useful. I mean, fucking Socrates put together the connection between physical exercise and the mind, fucking, you know, however many years ago that was, if Socrates was even a real person, but it's um or or if it was just you know Plato's uh you know uh character here. But not to get into that side of the conversation, do you think like that in our space we need more communication and dialogue in between different people with different perspectives and stuff like that? Or do you see, like, I actually don't think it's as segregated as it seems. Like, what are your thoughts here?

SPEAKER_00 15:16

So the only thing that uh can start the conversation with is diversity is always brings negativity first because people always gonna be resistance towards anything new that they don't know. So this is gonna be the first wave, but after some time, people are gonna sit down and start to listen. And when they listen, and then when it is, you know, they can relate to it, they can actually have a reflection into it, and then it can it can uh you know relate to some stuff and can help them to can actually get to know that some of their struggles can be solved not with physiology, not with peptides, not with medication, but actually real connections. You know, like like people when they have this kind of uh uh, you know, mostly you're gonna find it with a sexual dysfunction more than anything else because it is built on a connection, it's bonding effects. And then when you look at the people that they are, you know, running themselves into using like oxytocin and stuff like that. But if you don't have this like an action that you build with your significant other, with your partner, and then you can get the natural oxytocin going on that then can you know relate into your dopamine system and can actually control your source system. If you don't know the background knowledge, or even at least like it's not like a knowledge, but you know that we are all related to some of the connections, and we are impacting the whole system around us. Like we are impacting the air and we all get impacted by the air. We are impacting the water and we get impacted by the water, we are impacted by the waves, by the frequencies, by everything like that. And even us as humans, every one of us has his own aura, has his own frequency that can relate to other people. When you when you meet someone for the first time, you can actually feel like connected to him or her. And sometimes you feel like you are you are up to meet someone, but you feel a resistance. It just becomes the soul, the soul itself, it has a different connection from us, from the brain. And when you feel like some people just get this as schizophrenia, but you actually you are not one, you actually multiplied. You have your brain, but it you have your brain, but it's only one part. You have your brain, you have your heart, and you have your soul. And in all religious, if you because I also read the Bible, I also read uh the Israeli uh Britons and stuff like that during my early age, like during my age of 14, 16. Um, I was looking for something in between those uh specifically. So um I did a lot of things about this. So you're gonna find the Bible even talk about how different it is the brain from the heart from the soul. And then you look at the um even us as Muslims in the Quran, you're gonna find us also talking about the different things between the brain, the heart, and the soul. And each one has its own you know, connections, its own um, you know, uh introduction how to can um actually uh put this to can act and to can put the other one in the back side, like you can think with your brain, or you can think with your heart. So the heart doesn't sense only, it can also think, can actually react. And this is the emotional side of our own existence. And then the brain is the actual mover, it's like the the mechanics, and then the soul is uh purely for the spiritual side of our own existence, which is gonna then translate into ethics, morals, and stuff like that. So uh, you know, this deep thinking should be, you know, should be at least acknowledged in our space, because our space is a unique one. Uh we are the only space that talks about psychology, talks about neurology, talks about physiology, and how each one affected each each other. So if we didn't talk about it, who else can talk about it? If you look at the the the medical the medical system, you go to the cardiologist, he doesn't know anything about psychology. Go to the um endocrinologist, he doesn't know anything about the gastrologist. And you know, every one of them, they are just on their own word, it doesn't know anything about anything else. But us, we can connect the dots because actually, from learning from books, from biology and cellular biology, all this, you can actually connect the dots. And to be honest, the same thing that I posted yesterday, when you think that you know more, you actually find yourself knowing less because you open gates for knowing about everything, about the universe, about the space, about uh if we get to talk about this one, it takes us ages to can just explain how important it is.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Man, there's uh I'm trying I was I was trying to look this up as as you were talking, but there is uh there's two things that came to mind as you were speaking. One, there is a temple in Haifa uh in in Israel from a uh a religion. It's it's it's it's called Baha'i Gardens or something like that. Um but essentially it was uh a religion where he basically included the like and recognizes the unity of the teaching between Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, like Zoroaster, like everything. It's a it's a beautiful garden leading to like a massive stairway and everything. And um, if you if you recall, like if when not to get into this rabbit hole because that one is massive, but like how Israel, the state of Israel in 1948 even came about, like before that, look at look at the way these communities were interacting. Like the very the very first day, like the literally the British people they left they left this that space because they were holding the line. They literally moved a bunch of people that had fucking homes and they had their real lives there for eons, and they moved them away because nobody fucking wanted to deal with these people. Churchill was not fucking in the business of dealing with these people, no one fucking liked anyone, so they're like, it, where do you guys want to go? You want to go to Argentina or you want to go to Israel? And then the the main guy, I forgot his name, but the main guy who was basically like trying to decide like where to put the state of Israel, like the place for these people to go, he basically was like, Well, there's more young people in in in actually in Palestine, so there's also more potential for development. I uh Argentina's already developed as a more structured place and stuff. Um, I think we're gonna be better here. It wasn't a religious reason at all, it it was uh it was uh it was a decision towards like building an actual nation. And if you look at how these things operated before that, holy shit, we literally had temples where people would attend the mosque during one portion of the day, and then they would go to the synagogue on the other portion of the day, the same individuals. Like you you used to have these not round table discussions because that didn't exist, but you had used to have these plazas where you would have teachers of Multiple religions having dialogue and conversation and everything. And nowadays everything is so fucking segregated, especially because of politics, as you can see in the in the case of the of this example right here. But that's uh that's something that I would love to see just fucking obliterated in our space because there is a lot, a lot of politics that gets meshed into absolutely everything that people do, um, that just like it just blurs the lines. And I'm I'm someone that you know, coming from an academic background, you learn to gain from whoever. Saint Augustine said that if the devil says something and is true, he's right. Like, like he asked the question, is the devil purely bad? And he says, Well, if the devil exists and the only source of existence is God, then there is at least something in the devil that is not 100% bad because he at least exists. And I'm like, just from that standpoint, you would find so many people that are resistant to even going that far, you know, and and which I find interesting because a lot of people who would find resistance going this far, they have no problem loving the Chronicles of Narnia, which I don't know if people ever thought about Chronicles of Narnia, but that's a horrendous view that has been debunked and obliterated in terms of uh in terms of religious studies because it's basically the approach of uh, you know, that the God basically makes uh an agreement with the devil that, like, okay, you get to kill this guy, but then you basically lose your standing as the leader of this world, and then my kingdom is gonna start, which is insane. But when you think about CS Lew, CS Lew has literally said that there are some psalms that are inspired by the devil. It's like, what the fuck, bro? You look at Martin Luther. Martin Luther he thought James didn't belong in the Bible, he literally just removed portions of the Bible. The whole idea of picking and choosing portions of the Bible that you're gonna abide by and portions that you're not gonna do it, and stuff like that. It comes from these guys, like it's not how these things were before. Before you were learning through stories, and and when people are like, No, the Bible is the source of answers, it's not. No religious book is the source of answers, it's the source of questions, and that is the same thing that we see in science. There is uh there is a book that I was trying to find that I I forgot the name, but it's a very short book, but it basically explains how um the scientific process is not a process of acquiring knowledge, it's a process of discovering ignorance. So you you basically you're what you're what the way people approach studies, the way people approach like questions and stuff like that, they want a quick answer, they want a verdict, they want to just basically not have to deal with uncertainty at all. They just want the noise to stop. Why? Because human beings are storytellers, you need to create these connection points in your brain, otherwise, things become very uncomfortable. And certain people like myself, I can hold contradictions just fine. I have no problem with that whatsoever. Human beings are way too multifaceted to be able to just be a single unified core. You know, Walt Whitman in uh in one of his books has uh a quote that I love. He says, Do I contradict myself? Well, then I contradict myself, I contain multitudes, and it's like, exactly, dude, exactly. We're so fucking tied up with all these like contradictions and things we know, things we don't know, you know, like especially when it comes to enhancement, it's like, well, you can't say that because the studies don't prove that. I'm like, the studies don't prove shit. That's not the point of a study. Like, that's the the study is just trying to replicate or prove a hypothesis. The hypothesis is not even the real fucking thing. Like when you talk about gravity, it's a theory. That doesn't mean gravity is not real, it just means that it can't, we can in the future discover other tools that can access deeper layers of information and then discover that no, it actually functions in a different way, like we did with time. There's essentially two theories of time, to theory A and theory B, very you know, very descriptive names. But uh, you know, we we basically like through um metaphysics and everything, like we just come to find a lot of different ways of looking at things. And I feel like if if people were more in tune with their own bodies and more in tune with their own existential experience of living in this earth and things like that, they would get more out of drugs because you would automatically become more um sensitive to feedback, not just you you look at like religious people, they're they wake up and they're like, God, what should I do? You know, and they're just like waiting for the wind to tell them like which which which direction to go. And I'm I'm not saying that I don't I'm not saying go that far, right? Like if there is a God, God gave you a brain, right? Like God gave you the the the ability for you to make decisions on your own. He he created this earth with a lot for us to discover and a lot for us to unpack, and it was literally good. He calls it good, and it we are meant to explore it, we're meant to eat the fruit, we're meant to absolutely fucking enjoy it. As a matter of fact, in the story of Genesis, there are a lot of commentators, and including like some ancient perspectives, that the the serpent in the Garden of Genesis, it wasn't the devil. There's only one place in the entire Bible that calls the serpent the devil, and that's the book of Revelation, like the last fucking thing to be added, and a very controversial book. There's a lot of debates in in the fourth and the fifth century about having revelation in the Bible. As a matter of fact, it was a trade between the eastern and the western churches. They basically said, Okay, you guys get to put Hebrews in the Bible, we get to put revelations in the Bible, it's a compromise, we'll have both in there, which is which is fucking fascinating when you think about it, right? Um, but there's like there's there's so much in religion that I feel like people would be fucking fascinated just learning. But I hear that when people think religion, they immediately think, like, oh, you are talking about my personal relationship with my Lord and Savior. And I'm like, I'm not talking about that, I have no access to that type of information. I'm talking about there was a dude that lived on this earth 2,000 years ago who is controversial as shit. It was very interesting. He literally got killed under the under the the under sedition, just basically trying to overthrow the empire. Why? Because his language was deeply political, and somehow we transformed a political activist who was known as a healer and as a teacher and all of these things that has a bunch of stories about him. We transformed that person into the sole source of truth and like how you're gonna guide your life, like which job you should take, whether it is moral or immoral for you to do a certain action or something like that. And it's like, dude, I don't feel like I don't feel like that guy was tapping into that. Like he had a very specific agenda. He he legitimately like had a huge like you read the gospel, they're all fucking different. They're every gospel is incredibly different. And if you if you think the stories are the same, you're out of your fucking mind, you're not reading them correctly. Just legitimately read one book, read the first one, read the book of Mark and write down everything that happens in order. I did this for every single book of the gospels, right? Because we had to, it was an assignment in school. But you learn a lot because when you start reading Matthew, you start realizing, like, oh, that's not wait, wait, wait, what the fuck? Did he heal? Did he heal that guy going inside the temple or coming out of the temple? Did he the was the guy reaching out to him, or did he reach out to the guy? Was it like you know, like like like the fact that Jesus doesn't die in the same day in all these books? He dies not on Friday, he dies on Thursday in the book of John. Why? Because John wants to make a point that he is the lamb that takes away the sin of the world, so he has to have him killed during the moment that they're slaughtering the lambs for the Passover. So he literally is the Passover lamb in the book of John, but he's not that guy on the other books, and I feel like that same level of conflation of just pulling like one book to supplement the empty spaces of this other book, it makes you lose a lot about what this one particular book is about. So, like the message of the book of Luke is extremely clear. You do not want to be a rich person. That's that's dude, you want to be rich, you want to make a lot of money, you're fucked. Jesus has no business with you. That's not the message of Matthew. The message of Matthew is fuck Caesar, fuck Augustus. I am the one who brings peace, I am the one who actually provides for my people and all completely different messages. You get the book of John, and he's the lamb that takes away the sin of the world. So it's like in enhancement, whenever we're thinking about like reading papers and all this type of stuff, we are we are so tempted to supplement every single gap with extrapolations from other areas in order to create a coherent picture of what is going on. But if we're being honest, like just talking about peptides, for instance, no one knows what the fuck we're talking about. No, no one does. Well, it's true, it's true. Like, we have all these, like some a bunch of people send me like this two and a half hour podcast with Huberman talking about peptides with an expert and all of these types of things. And I listened to part of it, and I was like, okay, dude, this is very, very superficial. Um, I mean, it's a Huberman podcast, so whatever. But I mean, not shitting on it. I think it's great for for for like your the purposes that it serves, the audience that it serves. But like, we're extrapolating. We have like four studies on SLU, and we like we see SLU being used in so many different things, like we have four papers, like that is not a solid amount of data, and then the same people would turn into like bioregulators, which I just put a course out and on bioregulators, and people will say there's no evidence that these things work. We literally have a cochrane review, which is the highest level of westernized standard, like verifying the claims of something with Cortexin. We have like 30 some papers on epitolon that has been replicated in two continents in four different countries on telemarase activity. Like, how how is it that we just like fucking pick and choose the evidence? Do you see this problem as well of just people just like supplementing this thing here and there and like the fact that no one reads the fucking studies, everybody just listens to people on YouTube and on Instagram, and then they think that now oh now I understand how this thing works. Like, oh, I understand how five amino one mq works. I'm like, motherfucker, explain the Surtuan pathway and how NAD recycling happens, you know. Like, like, explain to me exactly how we move like towards towards senescent cells by feeding NAD plus to someone, like how you can actually create more senescent cells just by injecting NAD plus if the pathway is biased towards one portion of the cycle versus the other one. It's like if like I'm not I'm not saying you need to understand these things in order to use five amino one and q, for instance. But what I am saying is like, man, there's a we act so confident about these claims about like what we know about these drugs and stuff like that, when in reality, our it's very slim. Like we are extrapolating, like for some studies, like prostatylin, I believe, it has a replication in monkeys in Reese's monkeys, which is very good because they're closer to human beings, but we're still talking about cell cultures for like TB500 because you know we need to extrapolate because not everyone is buying TB4 or like thymus and beta 4, right? Like, like we are extrapolating that, like, hey, if you reduce like over 60 percent of the amino acids, you still get the same results. And I'm like, wait, what? The the the that's literally where the information is stored, it's in the amino acid sequence. You can't say that just because something works for TB5 for TB5 uh TB4 that's gonna work for T B500. That's not how it works. Dom Couza was working on a course of peptides and he literally gave up. Why? Because it's all extrapolation, it's all 100% extrapolation. We're all just trying to do the best. And to ping this back before I bounce this back to you to the study of religion and human experience and everything, guys. Everyone is just doing their best trying to interpret what the fuck is going on. We have these things in life, like these undesigned coincidences and stuff. And it's like the picture of the elephant that where like one person grabs the tail, everyone is blindfolded, right? One person grabs the tail and they say, I know exactly what this thing is, it's a tail, and the other one grabs the hoof and is like, I know what this is, this is a hoof, and it's like, no, it's an elephant, but no one can actually see the entire thing because we just don't have access to that type of thing. So, so when it when like does this like resonate with you a little bit? Because I know you have a background in religion as well, so I assume so.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Uh look, the the the Sigway can take us actually on the same thing that we usually have habit on our space, which is regurgitating some information that someone said it, and then the other one is lazy enough either to regulate the information or to can use the AI to can help them to have some sort of a uh a redesign of the narrative, and then it goes from person A to person B to person C, and you find that the narratives keep changing from one to another, and this is how we get the peptide dosages. While we don't have actually dosage in the studies, and it's just someone just came out of his uh I don't know, I don't know, I don't wanna say came out of his thing, and then he said, I'll say it's all out of your fucking asshole. I'll say it. I'll say it. Okay, uh for TP500, you take it every day in 500 micrograms, and for PP2 and 5.7, let's take it the same number because we're gonna actually make it together in one vial. And then, okay, what about what about a five? I mean, okay, yeah, put it at 50, but what if uh what if we take it in an injectable form? Okay, take it at uh at 10. Uh, what about this and that? And there's no actual data, and what's the what was done is actually a manufacturing people that they wanted to sell this stuff, so they started to work around some papers or some studies, or some invented uh documentation that it's not even exists, just to can give people some data that they know that the people will not go back and then try to read and try to, you know, uh do their own due diligence and and see if this is true or not. This is the same exactly thing that happened to the um the Bible. It was a sort of political reason to change the Bible across Europe because in France they actually wanted to make a narrative to can support the king. And in uh in the UK, England, they wanted to have a narrative because both of empires they were fighting over taking over the land. So they have to find a way to can spread the church. And it's also what happened to uh the Muslims when they uh went to Egypt and when they went to uh what is called nowadays, Turkey, and it happens also to the Jews. So the main thing is uh people always been like to be lazy enough to be a followers, and no one wants to step up and and then you know work their minds. When when the person wants their minds, they're gonna be odd. And people actually started to see odd as different and different as negative, and negative as no, no, no, we have to be away from that. And when you just look at the whole population, they started not to be in the way that they want to benefit people. No, they want to be in their own way to can accumulate fame, business, money, but they forgot about ethics, they forgot about uh the same way about religion, about um how us as a human being were meant to be in um in the help of each other. We were meant to be mating and meeting each other to can evolve, but now we are not really looking to evolve. We are actually killing each other, we invented wars, we invented weapons, we invented all other things just for us, for the sake of everyone, uh just us, just me. And this is what you actually see in the space here now. So you find people trying to follow a narrative, and then as you said, they are just trying to you know close the gaps with whatever trade-pick study that they have to they can read, not even they can find, they can read, because not all the studies are meant to be really easy to be read. Like when you look at the statistical uh analysis of the studies, you need to actually study statistic statistics to can just go into that and see the numbers and to can see if there is a statistical difference or not, if that was really effective or not. And and when you look at the studies when it was done on a disease population, and then how you can how you can just take these studies and apply it to healthy individuals and how it can play out for them, it's different. And then when you talk about peptides specifically, uh it's something that it's not new, but there's not much studies on it. It's almost like from 50, 60, 70 years as a discovery. But did you see anyone just was willing to invest money into studies? Because also studies were meant for one major thing approve a drug for pharmaceuticals to can gain money. See, you can complete the whole picture from that, and this is the same way that a lot of people just trying to do or replicate in their own businesses. So either they own a company that they sell peptides or they are affiliated to a company that sells peptides and they have the discount code. So what they care is who can actually get under the skin of someone from their audience and convince them that you need to use five, six, seven peptides for your life. That is how they say reta for life, uh, energy for life, epithanol for life, this and this and this. But when you actually look at the biology of each signal, it contract each other. It's actually gonna be harmful if you keep talking about all of those because your body can be again getting confused. And as I I as I spoke on the previous, I think it was today's reel about um cellular adaptation, it it's it's really gonna be a totally different picture if we have someone who's naked and we can see actual signals, how it can go from a cell to another, from an organ to another, and what's actually can be benefiting one organ can be detrimental and harmful, harmful for another order organ. And if you even look at the brain, when you increase dopamine in a certain area in the brain, it can be helpful towards focus, but in the other area it can increase anxiety. Like dopamine behavior in the prefrontal cortex is totally different from the behavior of dopamine in the amygdala. And there's actually some certain drugs that increase the dopamine in the prefrontal cortex and lower it in the amygdala or any other area. So, this is the same way that you had this segue to it. If we don't have our own ethics and morals, we will lose a lot. And one of which of the things that we're gonna lose, we're gonna lose our own integrity and then we're gonna regret the information that we are not certain from. And we have this kind of uh ambiguous confidence that we're gonna sit down and say, This is the only protocol that works. No question. How could you say that? You can't be even confident at saying that. It's like hard to believe.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Yeah, man. No, absolutely. And just I'm I'm gonna follow up with that, but I need to run to the restroom real quick. So just give me like 30 seconds, and if you need to run to the restroom, you're you're free to go as well. I'll just I'll just chop this off, but I I have some thoughts. And then I mapped out and basically spend the most time on the compounds that have robust evidence, like for instance, epitolon is the only one that clears that bar out of 53 bioregulators, this is the only one. Cortexin gets really fucking close, but cortexin doesn't have intercontinental independent replicative studies. So it's just because of that, I put it into a moderate, um, um a modest amount of evidence for it. But if we were to be honest with the evidence, businesses would close. Like, like we, I I partnered, I partnered with uh BioLongevity Labs for this course because I truly believe that they have the best bioregulators in the market. Um, and it's very interesting because I'm like presenting the totality of the evidence and saying, like, hey guys, just FYI, if you're gonna use something like you know, OVAGEN, just know there is there are no papers on it. Like, it's it's not that there's uh like my studies or cell cultures. No, no, no, no, no. As far as I can tell, there are no papers, period. Like it's just clinical use based off of what we assume would happen based off of other preliminary studies from other compounds. And it's like, and then I say, like, but if you want to purchase them, this is the place that I would go. No one is presenting the evidence that way, you know. Like, I I I I put a carousel today on the the the the the the binding affinity of the four-letter sequence of the DNA structure in um the like in the bioregulators themselves because that's what they do. They basically un basically are able to like unwind the spool of like the chromatin structure and the process of deheterochromatinization for us to be able to actually like re-DNA and express DNA uh express gene expression differently in particular tissues. But I get to the end and I say this has been replicated in one study in Italy and this has been replicated in one study in Tbilisi University. Like, that's it, like there we don't have anything else anymore. I don't see a lot of content online that people were saying that because when you say that, when you say, like, hey, we just just FYI, this is very preliminary evidence. It sounds very promising, and I think the it holds a lot of future, it holds a lot of promise. You know, we have papers praising, we have whole, you know, uh a monograph. That are written just to talk about the promise of peptides. I'm not talking about fucking popular level books. Fuck that shit. I'm talking about like actual like monographs in academic literature. Um like that talk about like how promising these things are and all this type of stuff. But at the same time, like we have to recognize where we are in this point in time because I feel like the more studies we get, the the the less like interesting these things become. And I feel like people who have tried a lot of peptides, I don't know how many you have tried, but I've tried pretty much them all. Um, like dude, they're not that impressive. Like, like, yes, they do a whole lot of really cool shit, but like when people come to me to talk about, like, you know, I'll do a console, and someone is like, hey, I want to come off of like Vivance to be able to like not rely on anymore because of the toxicity and all of these types of things. And I'm like, cool, let's before we get there, before we get to the protocol, okay. You need to understand that there is no replacement for Vivance. Like, what Vivance is able to do to your brain, C Max doesn't come close. Like, you can spray your nose, you can turn the whole fucking bottle up your nostrils, just put it on a line and snort it. Like, I don't give a fuck, it's not going to get there. So, to out the gate, we are need we're gonna need to get like some max, we're gonna need to get Selenc, we're gonna need to get new pep, we're gonna need to get 9MBC, we're gonna need to get like to tap into like 12 different compounds to do the job of this one drug, and we're assuming that because, oh, because it's a peptide, and a peptide is a protein, and our body is made of protein, so obviously this is the better choice. And I'm like, it could be, but like you're taking 12 different things that have no human data or or very many, very like thin data, like this one. At least we know what it is. Like, if you are getting euphoric, we know that there's brain toxicity happening, so you need to lower your dose. That's it, problem solved. Like, oh, but I also get insomnia, take it earlier in the morning. Oh, but I get nauseous, take it with food. We literally solved all of your problems, and you know don't need to come off of it. So, a lot of the times, like in my consults, I'm literally telling people, like, yeah, dude, like, I'm sorry, like you expected to get like a massive list of peptides. I can give you that, and I do like I provide, like, if you truly want to come off, this is the alternative, like, this is the best way to do it. You need to map out exactly what each pharmaceutical does in the brain and try to get as close as possible to emulating every single one of those actions with other peptides via extrapolation, right? Like, we can do that, and the majority of the days, I don't take Vivance, but when it's a very like brain-heavy day, I'll fucking just take it because there's nothing that can compare to it, right? Like, if I need to get done with like fucking 30 check-ins in one day, plus making content, plus dooming consoles and all this type of stuff, like I'm gonna take Vivance at 4 a.m. and I'm gonna be working until 8 p.m. non-stop. Like, there's there's no peptide that's gonna do that. When people are like, man, you know, you're and so you burn so much fat. I'm like, I'm using half a gram of SLU right now, 500 milligrams, 500 fucking mics every single day. Um, it's a lot, it's a fuck ton, right? But if you actually do the calculation from the mice studies, you would get to around 200-300 milligrams. You wouldn't get to 200 micrograms if we do the extrapolation. I find it interesting that when it comes to five amino one mq, they literally tested 200 milligrams on rats, but then they tell people to take 10 milligrams. I'm like, wait, wouldn't wouldn't that be like significantly higher? It's like, well, but it's very cost prohibitive. And I'm like, so your reason as to like your your it goes back to marketing, it goes back to like of like people being able to buy this shit and stuff, and it's like, yes, exactly. You figured it out. You figured it exactly like what it goes back to. And I don't I don't really like advertise a lot of like discount codes and stuff like that. I've actually like never taken a paycheck out of it. I will for the first time now, but it's just to pay for my doing my own testing on these studies because I I get it by um I get like those perfume vials and I send these things out. Uh for peptides, I just send a vial out to like Janoshik to test it out and see like if it's real before I tell my clients to take it and stuff, because I want them to take like of something that is real, because we're already dealing with something that has thin evidence. So the odds of you're getting something that's literally not what it says that it is advertised is also fucking huge, you know. So when it comes to like developing protocols and stuff like that, what I will usually try to anchor my protocols under certain specific compounds and be like, okay, this one is going to be like my power horse because we have a lot of evidence, we understand a lot how it works, like Sumax, for instance. We have over 400 papers on SIMAX. Like people act like, oh, SIMAX didn't do shit for me. I'm like, bro, a lot of you guys don't even know how to spray your nose. You think it's literally just shoving it up here and get like if you get a taste on your throat, you're in you're doing it wrong. Like that's that's not where the nerve goes directly to your brain. That's that's a different fucking path, bro. So, like, um, when when you're developing protocols for people and stuff, do you also go through like, I'm I like this one is gonna be tentative, like I'm gonna try to see what this does. Like, I I saw some uh a compound is called like OA30 or some shit like that, and like I don't even know what it is, but it's supposed to do a lot on in terms of dopamine synthesis and stuff like that. And I'm like, why don't you just use 9ABC? Like, you can flood your brain with 9ABC, like you can literally flood your brain, you can you can give someone so much fucking dopamine that they'll literally tap out of a protocol. Like, I I I I've had people dealing with the anhedonia that I'll literally titrate this up. I learned this from Alex Kickle, titrating and 9ABC up until the moment that they tap out and then dial back like five to ten milligrams and then keep it there steady to be able to like teach the body again, like, hey, this is what dopamine feels like, and and stuff like that. But it's very tentative, right? Like, we can't just act like we know exactly what these things do and exactly how these things work because that's how you get grifters, man. That's how you get people starting their own peptide companies and all this type of stuff, which I don't have a problem with. There's a lot of honest work out there, there's a lot of honest people out there, but there's also a whole lot of dishonesty, there's a whole lot of like fucking misinformation, and and like you said before, everybody's just playing the telephone game, you know, like a lot of people don't want to read the studies, and they are intentionally hard to read. Like this is academic prose. It is meant to to to have the most amount of information with the fewest amount of words possible. So you read one sentence, it should make you stop. Like whenever I'm starting something new, and this is a freebie for you guys. Whenever I'm starting a new area of study, I'll draw a lot from AI. How do I do that? Not to get like ChatGPT, teach me about some acts. That is a great way to learn everything wrong about some acts. But like, what you could do is open a paper and then use the actual AI uh systems that are built for academics, and then like you can literally like highlight this one portion and be like, explain to me, like a five-year-old layman, and then you can like, oh, so now I understand what like this receptor is doing. I still don't understand what these words mean, but like I'll create flashcards for each one of those terms, and then I'll review those periodically and stuff like that, and like just literally learn. But it takes so much because there's so much to learn, there's literally so much to fucking know. Like these things, like people act like it's normal to know everything about neuroscience, psychology, uh, psych psychiatry, fucking endocrinology, all like the the pericrine system, like like in the age of AI, everybody can talk like they know what they're talking about, uh, which is like kind of fucked up because it's just gonna make people distrust everyone at some point. And then the people who are using AI for good in a good and proper way, which, like, dude, it's all over academia, it's literally all over academia. It's if you use it for a good purpose, you're gonna produce better quality, like outputs, like outcomes. You're going to get better results because you understand how these things work, you know. So, like, when we talk a little bit about the issue of like protocols that don't make sense whenever people are like creating protocols and like compounds that literally uh work against one another. And uh, I find it so interesting that people would just ask me a question, like, what do you think about this protocol? And I'm like, Dog, being completely honest, number one, I don't answer these questions on Instagram because uh DMs are open because there's no more encryption, so uh it's I don't want to get my account banned, so sorry. But two, it there's a lot wrong. Like, where do I start? Because I feel like you could just take a course on pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics, and you would immediately start understanding, like, oh shit, I don't need to inject TB500 every day. Wait, why do I inject it every day? Oh, yeah, it's just because it comes in the same fucking vial, but the doses are different. You inject like 500 micrograms of BPC 157 two times a day because of the half-life, TB500. You can literally do two to three times a week. Like, so when you're like, you know, creating protocols and helping people with this stuff, do you go through like a tier system or like how like uh how do you decide like I'm gonna anchor this compound here to be my main driver? And like just to to to give people a little bit of an idea of like how to build better protocols because I find that the majority of them are just uh kind of fucking sad, you know?

SPEAKER_00 52:56

Yeah, so let me let me go back to uh or I will take the question, but I will just answer three things that came to my mind when you were talking about the peptides. Uh, first, peptides is something that can be better used in an intelligent person or by a frame of work from an intelligent person. And if you are uh optimized enough, you're gonna be disappointed from the peptides. And I have this reel already already recorded. And what I what I said in that reel is this if you are someone is following the lifestyle to the T, you're gonna be actually disappointed from every single peptide on earth. Just you know, you have outliers, but still, you take PPC157, you don't feel anything, you take TP500, you don't feel anything, even you take C-Maxi like you don't feed anything, and then you question you take NED plus, you actually feel worse. You take 5 amino, you feel worse. You take this and that, you take MOTC, you feel sleepy. And because you don't know about redox system, and if you increase something, maybe you are optimized at this level from your own lifestyle. So actually, peptides are gonna be better utilized by people that they lack something. But if you are well optimized, because I have I have you know like a handful of clients that they are actually a pinnacle, like they are doing every single thing to the T. Like they have grounding, uh, sun exposure, uh, cold plungers, every single thing. And then they actually came from a consultation from big names in the market, and they have like a bill with thousands and thousands of dollars of stuff that they did it for almost a year and a half, and they what they did, they got worse. Why? Because they actually don't know what's going on, and then it's not like the people don't know, but because you went to them, so they have to take you to give you something just to give you something out of your money. That's it. But the same way that you did, the same way that I do, when I get someone like that, I told him one thing. You actually don't want to increase or to do more, you actually want to slash all of those out and stay without any supplement, without anything, just to train yourself. That you wake up in the morning, you don't need to take an injection, you don't need to take a pill, you just need to go to the bathroom, take a share, go out, walk in the sun, and then go back, go blunge, and then go by your day.

SPEAKER_01 55:16

Nothing to be I do this so I do this so much. I literally have a portion of the year that I don't even take health supplements. I'm literally just existing, and it's it's it's awful because I I immediately feel how dependent I am on all of these tools and things because the more access you have to them, the more you are you know prone to relying on them. But in reality, it's like, wait, isn't the whole fucking thing about peptides and bioregulars and everything about like restoring your system's capacity? Then why are we using these things as continuous medications? We're literally just swapping the same fucking thing. You don't need to take GHK forever, you don't need to take BPC forever. You don't need I see people taking a pity on like continuously. I today I saw someone basically having a protocol that's five amino one mq, slu, and bam 15 for like three fucking straight years, straight, just just non-stop. And I'm like, guys, what the fuck are we doing? We like for a pity on at least we have research that says, hey, you just need 10 to 20 days a year on this shit. Like, what why why would I disregard this research to take these things forever? Like, again, I think it goes back to the marketing claims of like, no, if you take it, it just regulates your circadian rhythm and all this type. You know what else regulates your circadian rhythm? Wearing blue light blocking glasses at night, going to sleep at the same fucking time, and getting sunlight exposure first thing in the morning every single fucking day. That regulates your circadian rhythm, dude. Like, way more than a pity on ever could, you know.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Yeah, and that and then you know, you got you get to the the point that I tried most of them too, and then you know, you're gonna be um trying to find a way that you can explain to your clients or the people that they consult you that I did that myself, and I did it in a in a portion of like a controlled way, like okay, I need to use this only without using anything else to interfere in that, or I want to use the combination. So I spent all almost like the last three years trying to pick what I can use and what I can because I have to talk about it. So if I have to talk about it, I have to understand how it does, how it seals, and all the things. But the problem is we also don't want to get biased towards what works for us or what didn't work for us, and then think about what can work for this person, and this is how we can develop the protocols. So the second portion of the talk it was about the legitimate of the companies and one actual major problems with the peptide companies that they don't actually enclose, which testing the heavy metals, which is a very, very big thing that everyone should always ask in the CUAs, heavy metals if you are uh I I that was the second one, but heavy metals are the is the major one because if you if you uh you can actually uh test the endotoxins and there's no endotoxins, but there is heavy metals. But the the major one because the you know we are ingesting endotoxins every single day. When you when you use uh plastics when the even now and the AC, I'm just inhaling those. If I don't have a better way to can detox my body and help my antibiotic reactions to can just work better, I'll just accommodate all of those. But the main problem is gonna be with the heat of methods because you actually can't take that out. Yes, you can do some sillation and stuff like that, but it's not gonna be working if you don't know actually what you are ingesting inside yourself. And this is a peptide, as you said, people use it for years continuously, and this is worse. So the the way that people should always ask is to ask about the CAs, not just from the purity and the uh potency, but also the endotoxins report and the heavy metals report. So this is one factor. And then getting to the the the thing that always been a big problem big pharma versus us or whatever thing. As you said, with people that they are trying to come off vians, they try to do something else, or even they don't want to take a medication and won't take a peptide for it. But what if I'm telling you that the medication is actually something that was studied on humans on multiple ways, and we know what it is when how we can develop a protocol from that, and it's tried and it's cheap, they're cheap, rather than just relying on a signal in the body that we don't actually know if and and I I told I I told someone um this statement. I told him sooner or later we're gonna see different cancer forming soon because of the peptide use. And it will be totally different, but eventually, people gonna understand that the whole movement is just a marketing, it's just business, more than benefiting people on their health. And actually, those people that they are developing all these companies over China, they are benefiting from raising the awareness about okay, big pharma wants to get your money. You also wants to get their money.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:05

That's big big pharma is like a 1.6 billion dollar industry, big wellness is like a 6.9 billion dollar industry, it makes so much more money. The the electrolytes, like part of the business alone, covers most of big pharma, and everybody's fucking putting LMT on their fucking you know, water, like acting like they're enhancing their lives. I'm like, motherfucker, if you eat potatoes, spinach, broccoli, and steak, you're pretty in nuts, you're pretty much covered for every possible electrolyte. Like, what the fuck are you talking about here? Like you're optimizing your fucking water intake. I'm like, shut the fuck up. Like, that's and like there are specific and valid use cases. I'm not please, like audience, do not take anything that I'm saying as saying that these things don't work, they do work, and I utilize them in my practice every single day. I'm taking like nine peptides right now, but it's for one particular purpose. And like, like you said, you said perfectly, these things are gonna work better the more fucked up you are. Just think about it, guys. Like, why do you think we beat the fuck out of mice in order to like put them in a state where they develop all of these awful consequences to then see if the peptide works? Because if we just give it to a healthy animal, what else are you getting? Fucking healthier? Like, like, there's no that doesn't happen. Like, you see that with bioregulators, the people that get the best results are always older every single fucking time. There's no study that tried this on like 20, 30 year old people that saw benefit on that. It's kind of like 20-year-old people using fucking NAD plus. I'm like, why? For what fucking reason, dude?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

You know, yeah, and then going to the uh the actual protocol, how I can build the protocol for people is from the testing when when I I get both things, the uh symptoms of the person, and then the testing. So let's say someone is coming with fatigue, chronic fatigue, and you know, have a brain fog, having problems with digestion. You can actually tell, okay, we can then think about one, two, three, three, four, five diagnoses, but we will not actually confirm on those without having an actual number. So we do the blood work, we do the gut testing, we do the DNA testing, we do whatever test that it is needed, not just uh you know, overwhelm them with a financial strain that then just show them that we know or we we uh we want to get them to pay more. No, we actually I actually prescribe them the um the test that only works for them or that can help me to can diagnose it well, and then when it when it comes to the peptides, this is gonna be the last thing that I do. I always prioritize what the person can do first, and then second, what they can actually manipulate from the micronutrients, from the food, and then the supplements, then the medication before the peptides. Last thing is gonna be peptides. Because if you look at the the the main thing of health-wise, gonna be actually lowering oxidative stress, lowering inflammation. When it comes to lowering oxidative stress and lowering inflammation, yes, you can act, you can act like an expert and then give them a lot of antioxidants. But if their lifestyle is still the same, lifestyle is the one that causes these kind of things. So you have to actually sit down with them, teach them how to live the life. And this is why I actually went to the psychology and went to the uh the whole therapy things and taking CPT and DBT courses just to can deal with the clients because you actually deal with a toddler. When a client comes to you, you you have to set them down, you have to lower their anxiety, lower their overwhelming, and then explain things to them like they are toddler. You're spoon feeding them the information, and this is why my check-ins is not like an email. My check-ins is actually codes that can sometimes extend to two hours, just because I have to explain everything to them from point A to point Z just for them to calm down and understand everything. So the client that works with me works only for one month, three months, four months, six months, and then he graduates from an institutional way of thinking that then he can think for himself and then work it out. So the peptide, the medication, the supplement, yeah, everything is just tailored towards what he feels, not just overwhelming them, and then okay, take these peptides with this discount code, and then I'm walking I'm looking for my bill at the end of the month. No, I just want them to benefit from it. That's it. This is how we should do you know, you get one major problem, and then ask one question first. What the what the person can do to can fix it, and then maybe what else can he take, not the vice versa.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

I fucking love it. Let's put this into practice. Let's uh let's pick up some questions here. You had you had one on on on Instagram. I have a I have a few as well. Yeah, what was uh what was that one that you got, man?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:41

I was someone I know that he was asking about uh clonadine and uh if he can use clonadine while using pregablin or not. Um yeah, clonodine.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

Same as uh just uh and it was uh clonadine and pregabalin.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:58

Uh yeah, pre-gablin.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

Yeah, is it pronounced pre-gablin? I've been pronouncing pregabelin this whole fucking time.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

Uh I I I don't really get into the pronunciation because actually English is not my first language, so it's like yeah, yes, no, I put a lot of names.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, what do you think? Because I like Pregobalin.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

Um, it depends on the person, and this is why I always look at the persons first before I answer the questions. And for a specific for that specific person, because he suffers from um so from you know low um low libido and and sometimes uh premature ejaculation and uh some kind of a erasing heart rate and anxiety. So I asked him to get uh guanfacine, but he can't have guanfacine because he can't source it in his country. So he was looking for something as an alternative to the to the guanfacine, and then the clonodine comes to the picture. But on my opinion, guanfacine is more selective and more tailored, and more even um, you know, if you look at the studies that it was done on both and Even if you went to a psychiatrist and asked him, he's gonna always tell you that people uh tolerate Guanfacine better than chlonidine, and clonidine actually lowers the heart plate uh more and and lower the blood pressure more. People get uh hypertension on the clonidine, especially if they don't uh actually have high hypertension. And then with the pre-gabin use, it depends on the it depends on the person. Some people use pregablin but get addicted to it, same as Xanax. Um, I for me personally, I don't like to play with with things certain things that can make people uh dependent on it, especially if it can downregulate their systems. Um like I I would just you know conjunct this with another uh case that came to me before, and he went to a lot of other people and he was trying to lose weight, but no one asked him about medications that he takes. One of the medications that he was taking it was Xanax. And if you are using any GABA ergrics, your metabolic rate is gonna be destroyed.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:02

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. And I don't really have anything to add. I am a little bit more on the side of like, I kind of like playing with drugs uh because I just I just always love drugs. Um, you know, pregobalin is known for causing some uh um specific, you know, mind-altering states whenever you dose it very specifically. Um, but the you know, benzos do do that as well. It's just that the people get addicted very easily, very rapidly, and um these things build tolerance so fast, you know. Like I talk about GABA pentin a lot because I think it's a very good short term, and I mean like a matter of a couple of days, you know, like sleep aid, because I started this thing as like 200 milligrams, and within a few weeks, I was like on four grams of it because it just doesn't have any more of an effect, you know. Like when I when I started taking uh benzos, which I started taking benzos when I was a teenager, I started like a quarter milligram of colinazepam. Dude, later, later I was taking almost 10 milligrams of it. Like it's just it's insane. Like, I feel like if you're developing that much tolerance, it's just something to be aware of, and also um, you know, just try not to get banned here. Um, like I I think that it's it's valuable for you to know what you're playing with. Like, just know that you can become dependent on a lot of these things whenever you're playing with these things. Like, you should have a doctor that you can trust that you can bounce information off of it and stuff like that. I have a medical doctor in my team at Oftalab because I just don't feel comfortable just telling people, yeah, just buy all of these fucking things here. I want to bounce this shit off a doctor first to be like, yo, you you know this shit way better than I do. Like, please just take a look at this, like any immediate problems. And it, you know, there are things that I've learned before. It's like, oh, you don't mix these two things together because of this particular pathway, and yada yada yada. So very, very good response. I got one here says, uh, can mod C be taken just once a week at five milligrams instead of daily? Yeah, dog, you can take it once a month if you want. Um, you know, it's it's uh it's it's you're not gonna get the same effect, right? I actually I actually prefer to not take mod C daily because it's a signal, so I like to let the body adapt to it. So I like intermittent use. Um, I I I tend to go that route with mod C right now. I'm using a very low dose daily, and I'm uh yeah, it works. I I haven't found anything like meaningful or like crazy in terms of energy and stuff like that. Like I like you said, I'm not fucked up, so my my body is working pretty well. But I I what do you think? Do you think it's even worth to take a just one five milligram dose, or just it better to split that up throughout the week?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:38

It depends on the on the person's needs and also in the person's state right now and what else he's using. Like as you said, uh you can use it every day in a single small dose because you're actually using other stuff on top. So the signal can be strengthened from other pathways. Like if let's say, for instance, you are taking sloop with MOT C. Now you are amplifying the AMPK from other pathways. But if you are just relying only on uh Moz C, then yeah, you can actually get more benefit from dosing it at five uh milligrams, maybe twice per week, just because of the amount of um AMPK activation that you can get. And and this is this is also one valid thing. We don't think about the residency time, like the actual um half-life of the drug, more than actually what can then impact, like what circuit it works on, and how long this circuit could take to can initiate the effect or even downward effect from the uh standardization or descentitization of the receptor itself. So let's say uh we are actually talking about SLU as for our half-life just because of the um the effects, and also we are taking a lot of milligrams because of the bioavailability. But look at the mechanism that it works on and look at the pathways that works on, it works on a lot of mechanisms and it will it amplifies a lot of signals in the body. And this is why I'm actually being careful using SLU and I always like be careful with using any of the peptides because if once you activate one pathway, you don't know what can be the downstream cascades with it. So for the same for the question, he yes, he can take it like if he's relying only on the MOP C, he can take like five milligrams twice per per week, but once per week also fine. It depends on what he wants to achieve from it. If he's taking it pre-workout, pre-cardio, if he has actually uh an insulin resistance that he wanna resolve, or he's taking it with retrotide or taking it with other pathways. So it depends, but it's it's fine to be taken as um like five milligrams, or even some some people that need 10 milligrams of uh uh of mozzy.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:38

Yeah, yeah. I've I've used as as high as 15 milligrams three times a week. Uh, and in in my protocol, it actually it actually does make sense to use it that high because it's just for two weeks for a very particular purpose, but we're not we're not pushing these doses high forever. That's uh that's a recipe for receptor internalization, uh, you know, which is uh not not it's the opposite of what we want, uh, you know. Um when running a cycle, what's the main indicator in blood work that can stop gains? Dog, there are so many, um, but it's it's never gonna stop gains, you're gonna keep growing, like it's a but you're gonna grow in a suboptimal manner. Like, just think about the order of priorities in your body. Your body's priority is to keep you alive. That's why hormones downshift and your metabolism slows down, so to speak, right? It's just trying to keep you alive. So, if let's say your liver is entirely fucked, what do you think? You think your body is gonna allocate resources towards developing a bigger triceps or trying to restore your liver? It's going to try to restore your liver, but but it can't because it's being bombarded by hepatotoxicity. So you you got to think in terms of like obviously, we will never be healthy and 100% healthy and optimized when we are on PDs, right? It just it just doesn't work that way. But I think you should try to stay as close as possible unless you have a very specific goal, like you're trying to become like an open-level bodybuilder or whatever the fuck you're trying to do and stuff like that. But I would I I look at things like ferritin a lot, I look at my iron a lot, I look at the thyroid function because that can actually limit your gains substantially. Um, I look at, you know, obviously your hormones, your DHEA, your estradiol, your testosterone, because that's gonna have a lot of direct impact. Um, your your IGF one and all of these sorts of things. But in general, I just feel like I don't like I don't I don't I don't like the starting point of this question because it assumes that, like, hey, as long as I can have these markers here that Nathan talks about in the green, then I'm good. And it's like, no, these these markers are all communicating with one another and with your own context, like what what you what you were talking about before. It's like you give this drug to one person, you get this effect, you give it to the other person, you get a different effect. Why? Because you planted the same exact seed, but the soil is different. So, like, without knowing enough about you, like I can't say that, like, just oh yeah, that blood work looks like shit, you're not gonna grow. You're gonna grow. Anabolics fucking work, they're not like peptides that depend on like episode things being like in absolute perfect alignment with the phase of the moon for it to work, right? It's it's just gonna push through, it's gonna power through, just like medications, exactly like medication. That's why they were initially medications, right? So that's kind of how I think about it. I don't like the whole like I have people asking me about blood work, like at courses and stuff like that. And I'm like, that's a very, very big topic. This is not something that I just put together in a month, you know. Like, I I I it's it's not as simple when it comes to blood work. These things all communicate with one another. You know, people send me like, hey, my LDL and my HDL look like this. Am I fucked? And I'm like, I don't know. What's your particle size? What's the count? What's your ApoE at? Like, what what is your like your genetics at? Like, what where what's your baseline at? Like, what does your diet look like? I don't I can't answer that without having all of this information, which is why, like, I can't fucking answer that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:47

So, um, about the question, uh, I tend to see this coming through many, many people. So the the main thing, as you said, you can't you can't answer specific questions for people that you don't know the background of their own thing. But uh for myself, I would assume that if you tend to have inflammation, so the CRP and ESR, if you don't have more extitative stress, so first and if you can uh test the G uh GSK, um if you tend to have a problem with your thyroid liver, uh that could be um that could be detrimental. And all of those are a part, but different part gonna be the myostatin and the actually um you know the whole system adaptation towards the gains. So uh with the whole narrative about uh the anabolics, uh you have to take time off, uh equal time on or stuff like that. It's it comes from only one way. The body will not always help you to can gain muscles at the same rate because it will sense that this is not a survival for its own existence, and you are actually utilizing more of a fuel, and we don't know that in the future you're gonna have this fuel stored or this fuel is supplied because of the whole survival mechanism. So, what will happen is your gains can stop once you put on the work and you can't find any measurable gains. And with gains, I don't like to look at the mirror. I actually look like the people that take measurements for their bicep, their quads, everything. So weight scale doesn't, I don't care about width scale. Uh even your your look at the mirror doesn't it doesn't say anything. I just want you to have the measurements, and then this can take it can it can give us numbers, actual numbers about your size, about everything. So uh I would assume that inflammation number one, oxidative system number two, and then the organ damage that you get from the cycle, that can tell you a lot about if you are in the green zone to can go on or in the red zone to can just pack it off.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:45

Yeah, and I I would add to that the inflammation is I usually start whatever phase we're gonna have, say we have a gut-specific phase or something like that. I always start with inflammation first because everything responds better when you are in a non-inflammatory state. So I that's that's one of the things that I that I forgot to mention that I'll always add first, and also uh vitamin and cofactor status is one thing that I look at. Yes, because you could have, for instance, you could have like a thyroid as like 3.8, you know, free T3, and people consider that good. I don't, but people consider that good. Um, like, okay, but if you don't have enough like selenium and iron and uh zinc, like it's not gonna be able to enter the cell. Like, if you don't have the zinc, like it literally has zinc fingers, it's not gonna be able to attach to the nuke, like it's it's just not gonna attach to the cell surface. So, like, it's uh it's uh I find like comprehensive panels whenever people are like, Oh, I did a comprehensive panel and stuff, and I'm like, No, you didn't. Uh you you did not. Uh, you you did a CBC and a CMP, and and that's about it, you know. And then you got testosterone and IGF one and estradiol, and you call it a day. But yeah, it's a little bit more complicated than that. Next question here favorite sleep protocols. Um, okay, just a note. I don't like protocols. So, like in my in my community, I teach you protocols, but I don't give you protocols, meaning I will show you an example of a protocol that I have built for one particular purpose in this particular type of person trying to solve this particular problem in this specific way. So each I map out each compound, what it's doing, and and and how exactly it's going to solve that one problem. It's basically going through an academic paper. If there's a statement in the paper that doesn't support the thesis statement, you remove it. So basically, I'm trying to make this as simple as possible, right? So when I when you ask, like, what's my favorite sleep protocol? Like, it depends what type of sleep problems do you have because there are dozens upon dozens of types of sleep problems. Is it aurorexin like the like an issue? Is it an issue coming from cortisol? Everybody assumes it's always cortisol, right? But it's like it could not be, it could be blood sugar, it could be, it could be your actual circadian rhythm, like it could be your like it could be so many different things. So it's very hard to say like your favorite sleep stack. And also, I haven't really found like a very like a sleep stack that's like coming from supplements that's like, oh, that shit knocks me out. Like, I think the people that say that they're very fortunate, you know, bless your heart, like you're you're legitimately blessed. Because I like if it's actually a complex problem, you're not gonna solve it with just like a simple oh apigenin and then fucking ashwagandha and melatonin and magnesium. Don't forget magnesium for your sleep. Like, magnesium doesn't even work that way, dude. That's not like what it is, it's the fucking glycine in your magnesium glycinate that's doing the heavy lifting here. So, whenever I'm I'm thinking about sleep supplements, if I had to name one, I think it would be glycine. It's just so multiver like multifaceted and versatile, and it pairs very well with things like taurine and magnesium and for like mitochondrial efficiency and things like that. So it lowers your body temperature, it helps with sleep onset, and also it does something that a majority of supplements don't, which is it improves deep sleep quantity and quality. So I find uh glycine to be very, very good. And also, if you mega dose it, you get essentially the same effect as a benzo. Like it's it's like it, you get like almost the same effect. It's it's wild. Like you do 30 grams of glycine, don't do that. But if you were to theoretically do that, it would be fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:05

Uh yeah, well, the sleep, the problem you have to identify if it's uh uh is if it's a sleep initiation uh or if it's you know insomnia. And we have if we go to the DSM 5 or the literature and how you diagnose the sleep, you can actually uh go very, very deep. So uh the insomnia itself, uh you don't have uh just one part, you have like three parts, and also you have to pay attention towards the um the if you have a problem with your airways, if you are sleeping, uh if you need a uh sleep study to be done, um if you are a bigger individual, if you are a lighter individual, um, and then if you are using stimulants, if not, like uh when I when I usually usually go there, I ask I ask a person if you want to look at the sleep, you look at the first thing that you do in the day, and throughout the day you can actually know what's going on with your sleep. So if you are taking stimulants, if you are uh training at the end of the day, if you are um in a in a very anxious state, if you are staying in the in the light, if you don't use uh blue light booking glasses, if you don't dam the lights, if you don't have air conditioning on, if you don't get to a point that you are winding down from a mind aspect, like slow down your brain, don't look at things, don't call people at night, don't argue with your partner, don't do anything like that. Try to bond with your partner. Actually, oxytocin can help a lot with that, uh, bonding can help a lot with that. Let her give you a massage, give her a massage. All these things can play out at the end of the day, just makes you relax and then get out of this sympathetic state and then go to the parasympathetic state and then uh get away from the food, don't eat a lot of food before bed, just space that, and then when we go to actual supplements, you can have the uh magnesium uh either glyconate or uh thurinate, you can have the glycine, turine, uh, epigenin, uh, L-surine. We can have also uh things like um melatonin. Um what else? This is the actual like the supplements, but there is other things that you can you can do, like especially medications. We have two pathways, either melatonin agonist or erxin antagonist. This is works beautiful for people. And um we have other also peptides, we have penillion, we have uh DSIP, we have like those are the the major things that I always pick and choose from when it comes to uh making a protocol for someone for sleep, but it will be dependent on the person's problems and how he can actually pinpoint that this is the problem, then we can then pick and choose what will work for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:37

Yeah, absolutely. I agree. I I love that. I love that breakdown. Um, okay, we have one here reversing atherosclerosis. Um, talk about a big fucking topic here because uh it depends, right? Like you you can think of like atherosclerosis in terms of like stabilization or regression, like actually like reducing plaque volume, but like I think you know, we see in the trials like atheroma, like regression, um, with um just driving Apo B at like very low via the use of statins and stuff like that. I think thyroid uh optimization also has a role here, as well as like something like berberine. I think it's uh it's useful for us from a standpoint of like driving that APOB and the and the um the LDL. I think this is a place where um like bioregulators actually have a place um because of endothelial function. So like um there's not a lot of uh you know compounds that can do that, but bioregulators seem to be able to do that, though the evidence is very thin. But if you have this condition, I would say you're just reaching here, so fucking go for it, you know. Um, and then like like like it goes back to what we talked about before, you need to reduce inflammation. So I would actually have a very high amount of EPA specifically, because like the EPA dominant ones, they seem to be more favorable from a standpoint of like lowering APOB. Um, and then like just make sure you're not in like an inflammatory state, period. Um, I would pull out all of the metabolic drivers that are driving the like insulin resistance, dyslipidemia, you know, hypertension, all of these things. So I would uh you know, even consider like a GLP1 here. Um, and then you know, obviously, if you are on enhance on the enhancement side of things, like you can raise a lot of like endothelial dysfunction by PEDs because like AAS they drive atherosclerosis by severely like reducing your HDL. So I I would not want to be, you know, oh atherosclerosis, let me just try to reverse this while I push on my next cycle. I don't think that's the that's what it would do. So I would I would layer in like vesogen and then like as supportive roles, something like cardiaolin and vent fort. But I I would say that's like just bring the APO B very, very low, re try to restore the nitric oxide endothelial function, quench a lot of the inflammation, and then pull the the metabolic and the hormonal like drivers that are basically calcifying that scaffolding that we have. But that's uh without getting super detailed, that's basically how I would do it. Like, well, how I do it with the people that I've dealt with that have atherosclerosis.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:12

You can actually also add the endulutin, it's one of the biologists also that works on the easy ethereum. Uh, and and the and and here's the the main problem with the uh protocols when it comes to an actual medical uh makeup problem. You can actually tell that if you reach to that point, what was the driver that takes you from being healthy to develop this is because this is the last stage of being fucked up for a long time. So you can imagine that this is coming from a person that either it is a preventive action or it's actually uh trying to resolve this uh this issue. So if it's not trying to resolve the issue, I wanna I wanna you know just think deeper. What was the reason that took you there? And as you said, the main thing from our uh clients and our audience are gonna be PEDs. So, first, uh you can't actually do that while being on PEDs. It's better to can take it off, even testosterone itself, it can take it off, um, or at least like be on a very restrictive TRT while doing that, because if you are doing everything under the sun with this kind of thing, is there, you will not make any progress. You're actually trying to compact what this uh this compound is doing, and then you're making you're making it hard to can just make a make a difference. So spirits can just take it down first and then look at the inflammation because the the main driver to all of these things can be inflammation. No matter how much the L LDL you have, if you don't have inflammation, you will not just develop any any sort of uh isroscorosis and even you will not get to the calcification. The calcification comes from the driver of the um inflammatory side genes there. So uh I would I would think about um first looking at the calcium, vitamin D, and then looking at the uh for sure adding any kind of thing that can help, like uh nitrokinase, lumbokinase, and serious on top, and then you you know looking at the um the bioregators, probably those are gonna be the one that you um you mentioned. And I don't I I don't really see any problem if you use the statin. Like if you use uh PSK9 inhibitor and then adding up adding something like maybe maybe a low dose of red atruti because of the way that it can work by inhibiting the inflammations, it can also help a lot with the um with a pathway and then the inhibition of uh aboprotein, and then I don't think that anything else can help with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:34

Yeah, yeah, I I I agree. Just a note on andoluthin. Endoluthin is actually one of the the compounds in the bioregulator class that doesn't have a single index paper, as far as I can tell. So I would actually opt for something like pinealon or epithalamine instead, or or or or even like corthogen because of the of the of the brain here. So I would uh I would opt for those options as opposed to going for that in instead, but that's just a Because it has more evidence, like by Nealon, I believe has like nine papers that I that I surveyed. Um, that I just a little bit better evidence here. Um, how would you recommend bridging anabolics from a cut to growth phase? It depends on where you're at, dog. Like, it depends where your health is at and like what your goal is. Like it it depends. Like, in general, for myself, what I'm gonna do is that towards the tail end of my fat loss phase, I'm gonna pull blood work. If the bloods show that I'm doing good, I'm gonna string the growth phase straight up. Like, I'm gonna continue with the same compounds and just reverse into the growth phase. If the blood work shows that it is not good, I will pull into a health phase first, stabilize all of those markers, do blood work again, see if I'm ready to go, then rock forward. And in terms of the anabolics, for the bridge phase, the cruise, the health phase, whatever the fuck you want to call it, it's just testosterone. Like, you don't need to take fucking Primo and Masteron and Anivar just in case, like you're not gonna lose muscle because it's such an insignificant amount of time, it's just like fucking six to eight weeks. Like it's you know, I've seen people need 18 weeks for their blood work to recover, but if that's the case, you probably fucked up with your cycle design from the beginning, uh, because it shouldn't take you, you know, over half a year to be able to stabilize your own fucking system for something that you did for 12, 16 weeks, you know. So that's that's kind of how I approach it. And then in terms of doses, I tend to push um higher doses in the growth phase, and then I run about 70% of the peak dose in the cut phase. I found that to be better than just doing a cut during TRT only. I found that uh people lose tend to lose muscle with that approach, even though it's very popularized now by the safer use model. I don't see that working very well. And I saw molecular today on Instagram uh talking about how he actually goes for less anabolics on the growth phase and more anabolics on the fat loss phase. And his rationale being that, well, you're at danger of losing muscle, so it makes more sense that you would push more drugs during this phase. And I also see the rationale with that. I just don't think that you need as many anabolics to maintain tissue as you need to put on tissue. Same logic that comes to food, protein amount, training volume, it's the same logic that applies to all of them. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:19

Uh, my thought, Professor, is going back to understand like what the drugs works. The drugs work by increasing the uh muscle protein sensors. So increasing the muscle protein sensors it means that accurate more of a raw materials to control. So you actually use the drugs to control. If you don't use the drugs to control and then trying to use it while the cutting phase, I think you are doing you're doing it in the wrong order. Because in the in in in the cutting phase, you just want to preserve muscles and you don't actually want to compact on um hammering more and more and more, because actually, when you lose fat, you are trying to overcome obstacles with your own biology. So you can actually benefit from adding on from the fat burners or stuff that can increase your uh metabolic rate from the other substances, but not the PEDs, because PEDs will not help you to do any more things. Like if let's say if you are gaining muscles on a gram of test, you can preserve that on half a gram of test. Because preservations is actually a very efficient state, but building is not an efficient state at all because it's cost effective on the body to can build, but it's easy for the body to can lose. So why you are taking more in the cutting phase while you're gonna lose, and you're actually gonna potentially lose some amount of muscles, and you don't care about like 10% of that if you are really want to get stage really lean.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:46

I agree, I agree. Um, this question is hilarious because this person uh tried to keep everything inside of the question box. So he wrote, client comes to you mess up and comes see you ms. So I'm like, dog, I hope the client doesn't come to me. Um, you know, please, please don't do that. I might get horny. Um, so client comes to you messed up hormonally, energy, gut health, etc. What do you what order do you address this? So I go through the March method. So everything starts in the mitochondria in our body. So the M letter is the first thing that I'm gonna do. I'm gonna make sure that there is actual support for what we are about to ask the body to do. Because if you don't have enough cyst enough energy, enough ATP to be able to produce uh the outcomes that we want from, say, like a gut perspective, it's not gonna work well. At the same time, inflammation, same thing. It's just not, you're not going to get the right outcome. So I start with a lot of like inflammation and cellular dysfunction first. Um, and then based on the feedback of that, I decide what's the order of priority of other things. Now, someone comes to me and they have an actual parasite or they have like clear, like fucking, you know, dysbiosis or cybo or candida or something like that. We're gonna do the mitochondria push very shortly for just a few weeks, and then we're gonna go very aggressively into the gut because no supplement on earth is gonna work if your gut is compromised. So I actually want to support a second letter here of March, which is the absorption and the detox pathways as one of the priority lines as well. So they're almost like stacked on top of each other. After that, I work a lot of like specifics in terms of like uh your like resilience in your body, trying to achieve hormesis. Um, so I will do that obviously starting very early on through habits. But then if I still see like, oh man, we're still a person that just has a lot of like central nervous system drive and just like we need to tone this down, a lot of anxiety, a lot of fatigue related to like rumination of thoughts and things like that. I'm going to support with some compounds for this phase as well. After all of this, that's when I'm going to look at hormones because I find that once I fix the other things, hormones usually fix themselves, which is why I think like working with a clinic most of the time is backwards, because you're just starting at one of the layers that it's like so much later on. And then the very last thing that I do is think in terms of like body composition. Because if all of these other processes are not like in the right place, you're not gonna get the best outcomes. So, one of the things that I talked about is like in when I was asked on a podcast, like, what do you do when a client stalls? And I'm like, What do you mean? Because my clients don't really stall in terms of like phalos and muscle growth and stuff like that. Why? Because I actually supported the systems that will prevent the stall from happening down the road first. So, you know, I don't you come to work with me, the first thing I'm not gonna do is like just put you on a phalos phase and then I try to fix your gut while running a phalloff phase and stuff like that. It's like that's not how it works. So I go through the order of that, but then I like this is like perfect case scenario, right? This is like assuming everything works perfectly and all this type of stuff because blood work, genetic testing, MRT, you know, like it might tell me uh you need to focus first elsewhere. So I let whatever is going to be the biggest bottleneck to be the thing that I'm gonna fix first. And then if there's other things that I can fix without interfering with this primary purpose, then I'm gonna do both at the same time. But I try to not do multiple phases at once because, like, just think about like, oh, you're doing like clearing like us, you know, biofilms, and you're also supporting mitochondria function. I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Biofilms feed off of magnesium, mitochondria function needs magnesium. So, are you gonna remove it or are you gonna keep it? You know, like so I think that having a proper order is is helpful.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:29

Yeah, definitely. And um, for me, I will not change a lot of that, but it's only uh the matter of fact that if a person came to me fucked up, I I I I would assume that the first thing that needs more stabilization is gonna be the mental state. So uh definitely we're gonna um we're gonna work on happens and cortisol control because if uh you can actually feel like the gut problem stems from the sympathetic state and overdrive of the nervous system. So you can actually do like a couple of things at the same time, especially if you are um enhancing the mitochondria, you can actually also calm down the um the nervous system through the vagus nerve activation uh exercises, from the um don't think about uh turning down the uh overactivation of the nervous system from uh sleeping better or actually help the client to understand what he needs to do and how he can do it as the habits and and uh and lifestyle changes first, and then you can get into the mitochondria and then the the gut because to be honest, like if you don't resolve the gut problems, everything everything that you are working on, it will not just do anything. The gut tells the body to do whatever you want to do, and if it's uh if it's fucked up, you you just literally uh setting yourself into major problems uh down the line.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:48

Yeah, I agree. And I to add that note here to uh to what you said, I also pay a lot of attention to the mindset aspect of it. And in fact, it's the thing that I'm probably the most passionate about in the whole optimization space, is just I don't really talk a lot about because people think it's very woo-woo and wishy-washy, like central nervous system regulation, like Vegas nerve, like yada yada. I'm like, no, motherfucker, like we have good data that breathing is fucking good, you know. Like, like it's uh it's important. So I I wrote a book called The Unfuckwithable Path, and I give to my clients, it's a 90-day path that basically takes you through like building a new identity, so that from the very first day, the first like three months, as we're doing all the physiological process, we're also building a new identity and building a like a stronger mindset that's gonna be able to carry you on for the rest of your life as opposed to just like helping you with this particular protocol or something like that, you know. But good answer here. Um, anything to help with genetic broken transport into the cell. Uh, that's very broad. Transport of what specifically in what cell specifically? Because, like, for like T3, like, yeah, you know, you're gonna need the cofactors there in place, but you know, what about like what what are you talking about? So I I don't I don't know, like it there's it's just too broad, and like, yeah, I feel like it's just way too fucking broad. Um, thoughts on the potential efficacy of Nandrolone only cycles with E2 support. I hate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:08

Uh, it was invented from a way that it could be helping the bias of people when they are trying to take the stoster and they can't tolerate testosterone. Yes, there's people that they can't tolerate it, but uh, when you look at the um the numbers, it's gonna be like really, really a very low percentage of people that you don't tolerate testosterone. Otherwise, they are not men, maybe, uh, but something else. However, Nandrolone by itself, um, not because it was only studied for the major um psychiatric disorder like anxiety and you know, developing um or having problems with the uh plaques similar to the um the amyloid plaque buildup from trend, but actually nandroll itself, uh I don't see a value of doing a Nandron-only cycle. And when you look at the people that they do it, they actually get worse mentally and physically. And I didn't see anyone doing it and get a meaningful effect of it. I know a handful of influencers that they tried to do it and they couldn't continue with that more than six weeks.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:14

Yeah, I I I agree. I I think the only person, if I'm not mistaken here, I think Alex Kiko actually does Nandrolone only because he responds very poorly to testosterone, even at like 50 milligrams a week. So if if that's your case and you're like a genetic anomaly here, maybe it has a place, but as a default, I just don't see the point. Testosterone is just so fucking good, you know. And I feel like if you don't respond well to testosterone, usually there's a some there's something going on that if we address that, you're gonna respond better. So, like I have uh, you know, I didn't used to respond very well to testosterone when I started. It was actually the dose was too low. Like that was the problem. The standard TRT dose for me, it puts me at like four or five hundred nanograms per deciliter. So it doesn't help me at all. I need to I need to run like a significant higher amount. There's other people like me, but there's it's very rare. So uh I would uh I would default to uh yeah, to finding exactly like what the what the issue is and then supporting that like exactly. So guys, thank you so much for sending me the questions and uh sending us the questions. Oh, I have one more here. So thoughts on the role of estrogen on GH to IGF 1 conversion in the liver or even the value of serum IGF 1 as a map as a marker to track it all. So I don't really I don't really put a lot of value on blood level circulating levels of IGF 1. I just don't think it's very useful for the purpose of like enhancement for like bodybuilding purposes and things like that. I think if we're dealing with like something like acromegaly or something like that, then yeah, obviously I want to pay attention to the correlation that we know about like higher levels of IGF 1 and like the actual development of like like bone like growth and and and tissue growth and things like that. But I just don't see because that's not really what we're going after. It's the same thing with T3. Like, I don't like I care about circulating levels as a proxy, but I care more about what whether it's actually entering the cell and doing its job inside of the you know the cell itself with the transporters, you know. So that's uh that's in general how I think about it. But you know, if you have crushed estrogen, you're gonna convert poorly. So I I but I just don't crush estrogen like pretty much ever unless you're in a contest prep and we're getting you ready to be peeled on stage, and even that is like towards the tail end, not something that we do from the beginning. And also, I don't I just don't think you get a very good idea of like how anabolic are you from just looking at your IGF 1 levels or even your testosterone levels. I've I I've had a client um whose this natural testosterone levels was 1600. His body was not impressive at all, like at all. I I have a friend who is who's a competitive bodybuilder who looks absolutely fucking insane and everyone thinks he's enhanced. His testosterone is like 700. You know, you look at um uh chase irons when he was sharing his blood work when he was doing 18 units of growth hormone, his his IGF one was like 100, 200. That motherfucker was growing, you know. So it's not everyone is John Jewitt that's gonna put on like six IUs and it's gonna jump to like six, seven hundred, you know, IGF one. I feel like it's uh I it's just not as useful as a proxy for me. So I even removed from a lot of the panels that I order because I just don't see the point in having it. It's kind of like keep like you know, like how panels always order like LH and FSH for someone who's enhanced. I'm like, why would you why would I even care about that? Like it's gonna be suppressed anyways. Like I don't I don't see the point in having it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:29

So because we are on Nathan podcast, I'll just throw this in because I know that you are multiverse in this, uh in this way to can understand this. Actually, we are always looking at numbers as a factual um factual uh out um outputs. So if we are trying to raise testosterone, we raise a dose and then we do a blood work to can see that dose is increasing. But this is the serum level, this is not the molecule on the receptor doing the action. So the blood work is only a matter of trying to have a statistical difference between one point and another. So we're trying to make a graph, but that doesn't say anything about the actual utility of the molecules. So if you are trying to do like uh like 100 milligrams of testosterone and then your levels at 500 nanogram per deciliter, but do you actually use those or not? You're growing or not? So it's not only about the blood work, it's about the way that the body is working. So you are always trying to align between the symptoms and between the outputs that you can see in your own eyes, and then the numbers, because sometimes the numbers is not actually um correct when it comes to tracking things, the same way as you said about IGF 1. IGF 1, you have the uh the binding proteins of IGF 1 that can bind those into the cell or can then can block it out of the cell, and then it can initiate the effect or block the effect, and then that doesn't uh um correlate to the blood work. So people that they have blood work with testosterone like 1800 and and and uh 2000s, but doesn't really tell on their physique, and people that they have only 700 nanograms a liter, but it works, and they are growing like weed, and this is because the gike repeaters, uh, or maybe because of the genetics, but at the end of the day, serum numbers doesn't really tell the whole story about what the actual thing is doing inside the cell.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:29

Yeah, and that's uh that's that was the point that I raised with carnitine because we do have some studies with Bavenga um just showing how like carnitine, like oral L-carnitine, um, it it basically like suppresses the nuclear uptake of um of uh thyroid hormone itself. So it's it's kind of like it's a little bit different than uh L car because for L-CAR it's actually on iodine complexation. The issue here is not just nuclear transport on its own, but you have to think in terms of like what is actually happening inside of the cell, and you can use blood work as a proxy for that, but you also need to read what is happening with the supplements and the medications and the food and all of these things because they're all painting a picture. So don't I've I've said this so many times, but don't look at blood work as a verdict, use it, use it as a communication point, and then use it to like map out with everything else in order to create a picture. Basically, whenever you pull blood work, you have like when you're looking at your body, it's like what's happening to my body? It's just fog. You can't see a single foot in front of yourself, it's dangerous to drive. You pull blood work and you can kind of see there is a sign, but you can't really see exactly what that sign is. Then you map with the supplements and then how they actually work, then you map with the peptides and the androgens and all these sorts of things, and the image starts becoming clearer and clearer. But we're all working in terms of proxies and trying to get as close to the things that we cannot measure because you know, we can't just like chop off a piece of your muscle to then like see if the shit is actually working or not. You know, that would be highly unethical and uh be the opposite of optimization. But yeah, that's uh that's that's kind of how I think about it as well. I think people put a lot of emphasis on blood work because it's simple, right? It's like, oh, I see this marker, it's low. Let me raise it. Oh, I see this marker, it's high. Let me take something, let me lower it. And I'm like, there's more to this conversation than just that. But guys, thank you so much for uh sending these questions. Ahmed, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you, brother. It's been a fantastic conversation. People learn a fuck ton here. And guys, every single Wednesday, there's a new QA dropping. Every single Friday, we have a brand new interview coming in. Every Monday, we have a new podcast episode of the Coach's brain where you get an insight in how I actually work with my clients. So stay tuned. Follow along. Link for the community is in the description, and I'll catch you guys inside. Peace out.