The Hidden Framework That Helps Athletes and Business Owners Manage Pressure and Long-Term Success

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🎓 ABOUT THIS VIDEO 
This episode explores the intricate relationship between identity, pressure, and high performance, with insights from Gabriel Rocha, a master in sports psychology and cognitive performance. We delve into how top performers maintain mental resilience, manage pressure, and align their actions with their long-term goals.

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🧠 TIMESTAMPS 
00:00 - Introduction to high performance psychology and the importance of mental resilience

02:54 - Understanding the impact of building a performance persona on relationships

04:35 - Managing the transition from athlete to family and work roles

05:29 - Developing mental switch strategies during intensive training or performance phases

06:56 - Addressing pressures from perceived uncontrollable outcomes

07:14 - Techniques to loosen grip on external results without losing drive

08:03 - Embracing losses as learning opportunities in high-stakes competitions

09:44 - Balancing deep care about success with healthy detachment from outcomes

10:41 - Focusing on controllable standards instead of external validation

11:13 - The importance of process-oriented mindset over outcome obsession

12:37 - Catching emotional and psychological patterns early to prevent burnout

14:12 - Using individual psychological frameworks for peak performance in training and competition

16:07 - The significance of self-awareness and physiological-psychological markers

16:35 - Practical visualization and motivation techniques for maximal effort

17:56 - The power of internal cues and personal rituals for mental readiness

19:08 - Living fully committed while remaining detached from external results

20:34 - Building structures and routines to support promised commitments

24:12 - Reframing thoughts and language for sustainable mental health

27:24 - Detaching identity from fleeting thoughts and neurological junk

28:52 - Strategies for managing energy and avoiding burnout during high output seasons

37:45 - Structuring life for consistency and long-term success across domains

42:53 - Creating habits and routines that make promising part of daily life

49:43 - Recognizing and correcting misalignment before it leads to burnout

51:55 - The root causes of losing the thread in pursuit of goals and how to reconnect

55:02 - Practical approaches to hormonal, nutritional, and supplementation strategies

62:54 - Importance of environment and triggers in managing addiction and psychological health

66:58 - Pre-performance routines in the gym for mental and physical priming

70:56 - Final thoughts: living according to standards, not outcomes, with high precision and purpose

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to another episode of your favorite podcast, the only God ordained podcast on human optimization on the internet with the Opticast with your host, Nathan. Where today we're gonna dive deep into the mental side of high performance. Guys, you if you have listened to my podcast on identity, if you listen to the episode on mindset, you know how fucking passionate I am about this. Today we're talking identity, we're talking pressure, we're talking the promises that you make to yourself, what it actually costs to compete at a high level across every domain of life, and how the best performance in the world stay really locked in in the process when everything around them is screaming at them to focus on the outcome. This conversation is gonna hit differently, man, because my guest today doesn't just talk about this stuff theoretically, he lives it. He applies it with the most elite performance daily, and the frameworks that he's built are some of the most precise ones that I've come across in this space. Gabriel Rocha holds a master's degree in sports and performance in psychology and has spent the last several years embedded inside the United States Air Force as a cognitive performance specialist, working directly with fighter pilots and instructor pilots, helping them perform at the highest possible level under conditions that most of us will never experience. He's sat in cockpits, he's been embedded in the squadrons, he's flown in the back of fighter jets, and he's brought back that same level of precision and rigor into the world of competitive bodybuilding, working one-on-one with athletes at the highest level, including IFBB competitors, helping them close the gap between physical preparation and mental execution. What makes Gabriel different is that he doesn't just separate the sport from the human. He understands that the athlete that's standing on stage, he understands the coach running 60 clients, the business owner grinding through a season, they're all running the same psychological patterns, and he knows exactly where those patterns break. He is one of the sharpest minds that I've had in this show. And I think by the end of this conversation, you're gonna walk away with a completely different relationship to pressure, to identity, and to what it actually means to perform at a high level over a long period of time. Gabriel, welcome to the Opticast, brother.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Man, thank you for having me. I think I'm gonna hire you for all of my intros from now on because that was that was incredible, dude. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Hell yeah, man. I'm super excited, looking forward for this, man. Thank you for taking the time. I know you're in the middle of a move and uh everything. And just you you told me you're still hitting the gym today. You're moving tomorrow to another country and you're still hitting the gym today.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Absolutely. I so quick story. I moved to San Antonio to train at the muscle factory. If you guys know anything about the muscle factory, this John Jewitt's home gym. I came here a few years ago. I trained here, and I was like, I need to move to San Antonio to train at this gym. So I made that move, and today is my last day here in San Antonio, so I had to save one last leg day for today.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Hell yeah, man. Hell yeah. Let's jump right into talking about identity and the performance persona here. When someone builds a performance persona that works in competition, but that starts bleeding into their relationships and their home life, like what does that actually look like? And at what point do you intervene and what that intervention looks like, man?

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Yeah, man. So this is something that comes up quite frequently. It is the athletes who've created their entire identity around being that athlete or that high performer. And they're not able to separate that performance persona from who they truly are as individuals. So you'll get the guy or the gal who's a high performer in business or a high performer in the gym, and they have specific traits and qualities that make them really good at what they do. But then those specific traits and qualities may not translate over to their home relationships, whether it's with their kids, with their spouse, with their friends, their family, et cetera. And so if you're extremely detail-oriented and you're very high strung, maybe some of those traits are not going to be super conducive to having a really close relationship with a spouse or a child and holding them to those same standards and not giving them the grace that, you know, ideally they should have. And so when I come in and I intervene with someone and, you know, try to teach them that when you walk through that front door, you are dad. When you walk through that front door, you are mom. You are no longer the business owner right here. When you're trying to be as present as possible with your spouse, with your family. I'm sure you've probably worked with tons of high performers before that, you know, they're running multi-figure businesses and they're out to dinner with their spouse and they're they're on their phone, they're answering emails, they're, hey, honey, let me go take a phone call. And every once in a while, like that, that's fine. But if that becomes the entire pattern, that's not super conducive long term to having a good home life. And you and I both know that whether you're a bodybuilder, a business owner, if your home life is a wreck, everything else is going to be a wreck as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Yeah, man. And I noticed this with myself. I was actually thinking about that yesterday when I was thinking, like, holy shit, it's so hard to switch hats because as a solopreneur, I wear them all. So I'm in content production for five hours every single day. And then I also have to learn because I can't, you know, just stop learning. So that takes me two hours a day. And then I have the coaching hat that I put on for another two hours every single day. And then I have the performance hat that I'm like actually going to the gym and everything. And then I need to slow all of that down to have a normal life with my wife and everything. And it's just like, fuck, this is really, really hard, the ability to switch. But when I was at the gym, I was training with someone that wanted to get just some uh idea of like what a real leg day looked like. I promise I didn't make him cry, but he's probably sore today. But I was telling him, like, dude, don't psych yourself, you psych yourself up way too fucking much. And we're gonna get to that topic, but that that is so physiologically and psychologically demanding. You should slowly start developing the idea to just flip a switch in your brain when you need it, not even at the beginning of the set, but in the last few reps, only when you fucking need it. Like, that is what separates the best performance from the people who are just burning themselves out. I come from a background in competitive shooting, and basically you spend, you know, five days, you know, just doing competition. But like out of those five days, when you look at the total time that you have been shooting, it's maybe a minute and a half because the stages are super short. So, in between that, you need to relax. I used to try to like stay focused the entire time and it just drained me so much. And then like slowly you start developing that ability to like, as soon as someone says, make ready, okay, now it's time to focus. Now, now I need to like do this shit. Just every like the sounds just disappear, and you're able to focus on this task entirely. It's a, it's a very, very, very hard thing to do. And I feel like people maybe have an issue with this that they they they feel like once they lock into that zone, they don't want to get out of it because it's so hard to get back into it, right? So it's like, oh, I achieved my flow state. Now don't talk to me. I I was like this when I wasn't doing my master's. I was like, babe, if you don't hear me talking, if you don't hear anything, do not make a noise in the house because if I step out of my zone, I'm gonna be really fucking pissed. And that's horrendous, right? That's a horrible way to live life, man. But like you broke down the pressure formula, which I thought was really, really cool, of like expectation of outcome multiplied by importance. So when when someone comes to you like completely consumed by a result that they literally cannot control, you cannot know, like you said, if some random fucking dude is gonna show up without an Instagram on show day, right? Like, what's the first thing that you do to loosen that grip a little bit without killing their drive entirely?

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Yeah, and I think like what you what you explained on right there is really important, right? And one of the things that I like to do is kind of just remind the person, like, you are engaging in this sport because you want to, right? And at when you first started this out, it was because you enjoyed it. Now, over time, there was some sort of formative period where you started learning that this was a bigger deal than it needs to be. And if you can learn that, that means you can also. And so part of that is taking a step back and thinking about, you know, what about me and my view of myself changes if I lose, right? Because that is a very real possibility. Hell, I don't know a single high-level bodybuilder who's competed at the Olympia who has not lost at least once in their career. Even when we look at the greats, like Jay Cutler lost, Ronnie Coleman lost, Lee Haney, like everybody lost at some point.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

And I think that's really important for someone to have to go through those losses because there is a lot to learn. And so if we can get to that point where we are backstage and we're truly just focused on the moment itself and what you actually learned about yourself throughout this process and shift that focus, I think that's where they're gonna get the most bang for their buck in terms of not tying their identity to that outcome, which is a lot easier said than done, right? Because as human beings, when we pour so much into something that means so much to us, like I talked about with that formula, the way I view the intensity of perceived pressure, and there's a lot of factors that go into it, but an easy way for me to break it down is like I wrote down, expectation of outcome times how important this thing is to me. If you can detach yourself from what your expected outcome is or your desired outcome, that pressure, that perceived pressure is gonna come way down. And part of that is just accepting that yes, it is possible for me to lose. Yes, it is possible for, you know, Andrew Jack didn't have social media or wasn't really on it before he stepped on stage and he kind of came out of nowhere. It's like you might have an Andrew Jack come to your show, and you have to be totally okay with that and understand that that doesn't mean anything negative about you because your pursuit needs to be in your process.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And you you said that the athletes who like feel the most pressure are those who are like treating the outcome as a test of who they are. It's like a testament to their identity. So, like, how like give me some specifics. Like, how do you help someone care deeply about winning? Because that's important, but like without making winning the referendum of their worth.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

I think the biggest thing you need to do is be able to focus on the actual process and what the process means to you. If you can identify what your why is that's outside of winning, and look, I want athletes to do everything in their power to win. But what you're trying to do is you're trying to live up to a standard, not to an outcome. And when you're living up to a standard, that's really talking about your daily actionables and the things that you are doing on a day-to-day basis, the things that you can actually control. Because you and I both know when someone steps on stage, they have no control over who the judges are looking at, who the judges move to the outside, or if they move them back in. Like we've seen some of the best bodybuilders in the world, they come out for their call outs, right? They start off in the middle, they're super confident, they're like, yeah, and then all of a sudden they get moved out and then immediately get deflated. If you are, if you are letting something that is external affect your controllable factors, which is how you're presenting yourself on that stage, then you're going to be at the mercy of external factors no matter what. And so what you're trying to do is perform to a standard. And performing to the standard means that I am going to carry myself like a high-level professional in everything that I do, whether it's getting my cardio in, bringing my meals everywhere, hydration, recovering like a pro. All of those things need to be part of your standard that you've identified. And when you're so focused on just living up to that standard, it's hard to focus on what the outcome is going to be.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Yeah, man, 100%. It's just so funny because I I I uh have a lot of like professional athletes in in different sports uh in my roster. And like the thing that's like really hard for them is this actual like thing that you described. That was actually my next question of like the the the bodybuilding on stage, like deflating it. And it's just like I've seen so many people feel so fucking ready for a match, they just show up and like I'm ready to conquer, and then they see that someone else's name popped up on the app that they're also showing up today, and they're immediately like, well, not gonna win, so fuck it. Um, and I'm like, bro, you can't think like that at all. Now your performance is going to be shit. Maybe you had a chance at beating this guy. Maybe this guy didn't sleep all night. Like, maybe, maybe this guy hasn't practiced in a couple of weeks. Maybe all the videos that they've been posting are the best takes, and the worst takes are the majority of them, and they just don't post it. It's just psychological warfare, and you're losing. You're losing before you even get to the outcome. Like, like it's it's uh it's pretty, pretty wild. And like, how do you train someone to like start catching these feelings and these things earlier? Because, like, especially with like burnout, and we're gonna talk about later, it's it's one of the things that's like once you get hit with it, but that once you realize it, for most people, it's too late. When in reality, you need to be catching that way earlier. I am, I'm uh, you know, I'm autistic, like actually diagnosed autistic, not TikTok autistic. And like it's really, really difficult to catch whenever I'm going to crash. But with years of therapy and, you know, note-taking and things like that, and also my spouse just being very keeping her eyes peeled on me, we're able to catch some patterns of like, oh, you're going to fucking crash hard in like two days, unless you take this afternoon off. And and thank God I work with people that are understanding with this that I can say, like, hey, today, I mean, I can send you the shit that you need, it's not gonna be good. Just FYI. It's gonna be shit. If you can give me six hours, it's gonna be the best thing you've ever seen. You know, like how how do you help people catch this type of stuff earlier?

SPEAKER_00 13:06

I think there's a couple different layers to that. And the first thing is that everything within sport and performance psychologies builds off of self-awareness. So, like you're saying, you have to be able to have that internal dialogue and understand what your specific markers are. And what that means is you have to be able to spend time really detailing out who you are as an individual. What are the things that drive you? What are the things that are triggers for you to have a negative or unproductive response? And the more that you're able to identify those things, the better of an understanding you're going to create for yourself. And then you can almost reverse engineer the things that you need in order to perform at a high level. So, one of the things that I work with, work on with athletes is being able to identify for a given task, what are the different physiological and psychological markers that are going to allow you to perform to the best of your ability at that task? So for you and I, right? Say we're going to go hit a leg day. I watched the video that you posted where you're talking about like, I need leg day to be intentional. I need the intensity there. Like I want the, I want you to feel the burn. I want you to stay in that. Okay, great. So if we're aiming for this thing, what are the preconditions that are going to allow me to stay focused enough and tolerate enough pain to stay within that set? So for a set of hack squats, I have a specific psychological framework that I like to go into that is going to allow me to perform at a high level. I love to watch Jordan Peters train. So I'll put videos of him just like yelling in my ear, and that creates a psychological framework for me to go and do the set to the level of intensity that I need it to be. I don't need Jordan Peters yelling in my ear when I'm doing the single arm bicep curls. So understanding my needs for any given task is going to be really important. So for my fighter pilots that I was working with, when you're about to go fly, I don't need you to be super, super hyped up because that's going to influence the perception of speed that you are feeling. That's one of the things that's called ground rush that pilots get. Like when they're coming down on an approach, if they're feeling hyped up, their mind influences them and makes them think that the ground is coming up at them a lot faster than it is. Versus when they're in a very calm state, they're much more accurately perceptive to that ground rush effect and they don't feel like they're actually going towards the ground as quickly as they are. And so if I can get you to stay in that calm state and also have tools to either titrate up or down your physiological and psychological markers, then you're going to be in a good space to be able to one identify am I too hyped up for this given task? If the answer is yes, I need to implement one of my tools to downregulate myself. If I am not hyped up enough for this task, then I need to implement a tool to upregulate my physiology and psychology for this task. But it all starts with self-awareness and knowing what am I feeling now? What do I need to be feeling? And then what tools do I need to implement in order to get myself in that physiological and psychological framework to perform to my optimal level.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Holy shit. Man, dude, I I we could do a whole fucking podcast just on what you just said. No, because it it truly changed my life. Like, like I used to be the person who was like, I'm going to the gym, I'm putting my pre-workout on, and I'm also like listening to like fucking dubset non-stop. And I go to my sets and everything. And then I would get to like my third set and I'm fucking wiped out. And then I had to deloy three weeks. And I thought it was, oh, I have to reduce my volume. I was already doing like 50, 60 sets a week. How much more can you reduce it? Right? Like it's like that's crazy. It's it wasn't that. It was just like how psychologically like fired up I was for a task that there's no need to be hyped up on your drive to the gym, you know, whatsoever. So, like right now, I actually don't listen to music until I get to the exercises that I'm like, I need some extra support here. I'll just be like with my earbuds off, or I'll be listening to like a some calmer music and stuff like that. Like I like you said, I don't need help for bicep curls for side raises or something like that. You know, but put me under a leg press and it's like, Jesus fuck, I this is going to suck. I need some help. And then like I feel like the ways that you that you can develop that, you gave some examples, but it has to be very, it has to be very personal. Like your cues, they don't need to be public. So you can literally use any fucking cue, any visualization you want. So like for myself, this is like super personal, but it's my podcast, right? So, like one thing that I do is uh I'm literally imagining myself. Like I'm using a lot of visualization, and the more I visualize myself on stage, bro, the clearer the image gets. And then the more I can see what the future looks like. And I know that that future is dependent on this set right here. As a matter of fact, it's not even this set, it's this rep, just this rep. I just gotta make this rep fucking perfect. And then like I I'll I'll focus all of my all of my effort into that. And then, like, on the on the hyping up side side of things, I'll have music that like, you know, like one one of one of my memories that I have was going to a club when I was younger, and like all the guys who are like buff guys and everything, they're like partying with their shirts off and everything. And I'm like, fuck no, I'm not doing that. I'm not taking my shirt off. So like I'll literally put music that like plays in a club, and I just imagine myself like dog, I'm fucking here. I'm dominating this shit. I'm the biggest guy in the fucking room. I'm the leanest motherfucker this people have ever seen. You know, like that really helps me out. And it's not, it's not negative self-talk, right? Like, it's uh like motivation for the gym for psyching up. I feel like usually it comes from a very dark place where you go, like, oh, you piece of shit, like fuck these people. I'm gonna show them wrong and all this type of stuff. And I also find that very drainy. And also, it just reveals a little bit about like your motivation, that your motivation is likely has nothing to do with you. It's just like unresolved issues that you probably should pay a therapist to work through, you know, as opposed to just trying to like push through it on your own. But uh like you you use the phrase that I really enjoyed was uh utterly dedicated and utterly detached. Like most people they they hear that and they think that that means like not caring. It it's not that. So, like, what does it feel like from the inside when someone is genuinely living that out?

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yeah, so what it feels like on the inside is that the utter dedication manifests itself in those daily deliverables or those daily actionables. So it's like I care deeply about, again, that we talked about it earlier, living up to my standard that I have identified for myself. So if my goal is to become a professional bodybuilder, the first thing I need to do is identify, okay, what are the common traits that professional bodybuilders have? Chances are they are consistent, right? Chances are they probably care a lot. Chances are they're very detail oriented. Then it's reverse engineering those traits back into your life. Where am I being not detail oriented enough? Where am I being not consistent enough? And then reverse engineering that into your own life. And so when you're talking about being utterly dedicated, it's can you live up to that standard of what being a professional bodybuilder is, at least in the traits that you have identified, and then living up to and upholding that standard in your day-to-day and specifically the things that you can control. Now, the utterly detached part is that I'm going to continue to walk along the path of my own process, knowing that I'm not going to have any influence whatsoever over what the judges are going to say when I step on that stage, whether it's a pro qualifier, an Olympia qualifier, even if it's just a normal like regional show. Right. And so if you can utterly detach yourself from those outcomes that you have no control over, you're going to you're going to notice that you're able to go through your process with a lot more peace and a lot less pressure because you're able to focus on the things you can control. And if you can focus on the things that you can control, then you can control them, right? It's it sounds very simple and it is, but it's not easy to do.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. And and and within that, I think there's a lot of like, I'm making a series right now. I'm I'm posting them um that that it should be done by the time that I post this uh episode. But um, it's the series is called Should You Do Steroids? And basically what I'm analyzing is not all of the like, oh, here's a list of side effects and here's how much it costs. Can you really do it? Like, no, no, no, no, no, fuck that. I want to talk about the actual like experiential side of this shit, the social aspects involved with this, like the how your relationship with your own body changes. So I've mapped out several like psychological and physiological things that you know are important. And one of them was the skill that of self-observation and just being able to be in tune with your body, because a lot of people, they're not like at all. And whenever you add an amplifier, obviously now the signals are going to be easier for you to catch, so to speak. But the problem is if you haven't been working with identifying these things while you were natural, now the signals maybe just be confusing. And now you have many more variables to deal with. And and you just made the situation like completely worse. So, like one. the things that I um that I uh appreciate about your your videos is that you you talk a lot about like the danger of language and I have I have a degree in linguistics and I also love studying psychology like as a matter of fact when I started therapy with my therapist because I don't trust people in general we spend the first six months just talking about the theory behind like his approach to psychology like I really fucking love that the first the first book that I read whenever I started like studying any of this stuff was the DSM like I just picked it up when I was 14 years old and just started reading that thing I had no idea what it even was but I really really appreciate this and like in I'm I'm Brazilian so like in Portuguese we would say something like I am experiencing anger but you wouldn't say I am an angry person. In English there's no fucking way to do that. You say I'm angry and it's like man no you're stop saying that like shut the fuck up like you're you're not an angry person not angry all the time like just we need we need to tweak that. So like I feel like that changes everything. Like how how long do you like typically like see that like it takes for someone to like rewire that habit of like talking about themselves in this state of permanence instead of like a state of like in T1 like time equals one right now I am experiencing these emotions. Like how does how does that work out man?

SPEAKER_00 23:16

The timing it really just depends on how often they're self-auditing what their language looks like especially their dialogue internally and externally and so what I find is that athletes and business people who I work with that are able to actively do that and even correct themselves in the moment. Like if I'm having a conversation with you out loud and I'm just like man I'm such just I'm an anxious person, right? And then I'm just like okay wait wait I'm not an anxious person. I'm just feeling anxious right now. I know it's gonna pass. If you can even catch yourself doing that, again we're going back to that original foundation of self-awareness. If I can have the self-awareness that my language is towards being permanent rather than just a very transient state that I am just experiencing this emotion right now, then that's where you can start to build up that groundwork and train yourself to catch yourself doing it. And eventually you rewire your brain to start talking about I am just experiencing this thing right now. One thing I tell my clients to think about in terms of their emotions is treat the emotion you're experiencing like it's a guest that's just passing through. I love it. I love it. And actually one of the practical exercises that I have them do, I call it the courtroom exercise is I want you to like when you're experiencing a mixed bag of different types of emotions. One, can you identify the emotion that you are experiencing accurately because a lot of people they'll be like oh I'm mad and it's like well you're not actually mad when you actually describe what you're feeling. You're frustrated right or maybe you're disappointed or insert whatever emotion here. And so can we accurately identify the emotion that you are currently experiencing and then can we parse out how that emotion is clouding your perspective. And so the how the courtroom exercise works is that you envision yourself, so it's visualization, you envision yourself as though you're the judge in the courtroom when you can identify that unproductive emotion, I want you to view it as though they're the plaintiff and they're making their case for you because you are the judge. And so you let that emotion almost like speak to you and say the things that it needs to say. And then you also identify okay what are the other productive emotions that I could be experiencing right now? If I could look at this perspective through the lens of gratitude or positivity or happiness or joy, etc, what would they say back to me? And then you let those two make their argument towards you and then you get to dictate okay who do I choose to believe? And that's like the courtroom exercise because then you can also identify that these emotions that I'm experiencing are not me, even though in real time in my mind they feel like it's me talking to myself. No no no it's just that the emotion is driving the perception.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Mm-hmm man that's um I think that's so freaking cool because it's like I use different language to explain like some of these same concepts but like I found that um like explaining to people like hey just your thoughts that that's not who you are. Those are just things that your brain has produced is just what I call it neurological junk. It's just the only reason that you attach yourself to these things is because you think that every thought that passes in your head is you. And that is not accurate. Those thoughts are just as random as the intrusive thought of like oh maybe I should push this granny down the cliff. Like that like you no one thinks like oh my gosh I am that person. Holy shit I'm a terrible human being. No no no you just consider that it's neurological junk. So like if the majority of the thoughts floating around in your brain are just things that just so happen to sound logical because humans think in terms of language. So just because there's words attached to it I don't need to attach myself to every floating thing that happens to be inside of my brain. So what I tell people, it's like just imagine yourself like into a storm and you are the sky. Like the sky is unmoved. Like the storm is there. It's very hard to see but the sky is unaffected by this like you should be developing the ability to detach yourself from your thoughts and then select which ones you want to fuck with and which ones you want to tell them to fuck off. So like you know like I I used to I used to be the person who was like man if I had the thought some eat a rice crispy treat I have a rice crispy treat. Why? Because I had the thought of having one so obviously I'm gonna have one. Now I'm like no no no hold up wait does that align with the person that I want to be three months from now does that like when I think about the person that has accomplished everything I want to accomplish are they eating the fucking rice crispy treat right now? Oh they're not fuck that thought I'm not I'm not I'm not dwelling in this at all. And then like when people are like but how do I get these thoughts out of my head you don't have to that's the beauty of it you can literally just sit with it watch it and it it it it gives you so much fucking power when you're like feeling that like rumbling hunger when you're like on your fucking 20th week of dieting and you're just like I just fucking nailed another day. I'm going to sleep hungry fuck you I'm building a stronger identity I'm building a stronger sense of self. Every single action that I take gets me closer to being the person that I know that I owe to myself to be and like I I just I absolutely fucking love this shit. And I every time I post a video about this stuff it it never does as well as a video talking about fucking drugs and peptides and all this type of shit. But I'm like yo you have no idea how much more important this is versus all of the other drug conversation and shit you know and to go back to our like psyching up and like motivational language and stuff like that, you you've taught you work with a lot of people who use like tragedy and to use grief as like the fuel for their top sets, right? And you've like, I talked to someone at the gym recently and I'm like, dude, why are you training this way? You look like you're in a rush like you're just trying to get the fuck out of here. Like you don't stay in those reps you're not connected to anything. And he's like bro I just fucking go by anger. I fucking hate everything. I hate my my family my family are idiots I hate my job and all this shit and I was like that must suck man I'm sorry that doesn't sound like a good thing. That that sounds draining as shit man. So like you you've noticed that that is very like psychologically expensive. So like how do you help someone access the same level of intensity because we still care about performance and we still care about outcomes, but without paying the price that's going to follow them out of the gym.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

So there's a couple different ways that I like to go about this. One is identifying clean fuel what I call clean fuel versus dirty fuel sources. So I don't ever want someone to think that you know some of those life tragedies are things that you're never going to be able to leverage because I think there's a time and a place to use that specific tool. So it's like if I'm just trying to hammer like a small nail into a wall, I don't need to bring a sledgehammer out for it. Yeah. Right. But if I'm trying to break down a wall, yeah, now I want the sledgehammer. So it's identifying when do I need to use the dirty fuel because the clean fuel today under my specific circumstances, maybe I'm low on sleep, I didn't hydrate well, I'm behind a meal, whatever it might be. Maybe today for this one set, I can use that dirty fuel and think about you know the heavy things that have happened in my life, but it's also being able to separate yourself after that set is done. I'm putting that tool away and I'm not letting the weight of using that tool walk out of the gym with me. And so part of that might also be having a conversation with yourself of like, hey, when I walk through these doors, whether it's leaving the gym or you're about to walk into your home, being able to take that hat off and then put the next hat on and be like, okay, when I walk through this front door, I am dad, I am husband, I am mom, I am wife, whatever it might be because the different identities that you walk around with and the different roles that you play are obviously going to be attributed by different traits that you embody to be successful at that thing. And once you start blending in the traits that make you successful in one area but not successful in another, that's where you run into issues. And so part of being able to identify okay what are the clean fuel sources that I can use that on those days when you know motivation might be low, I don't want to wake up and do my fasted cardio or the second round of cardio after a leg day or whatever it might be, it's okay, what are the things that are going to be driving productive emotions that aren't going to be psychologically taxing. So for some people it's about creating that new identity of themselves. So like you say, envisioning what you're going to look like on that stage. You have a very clear picture of like the specific body parts that you want to bring up that can be a clean fuel source. When you start talking about like you know your ex that did you dirty or your boss that passed over you for a promotion you can use that but understand the psychological toll that it's going to take and so if you're using that early on in a session like you talked about in your video where you're blowing your psychological load, I call it on set two, then okay, now the rest of the session is probably going to be negatively impacted because you're not able to get yourself back up to that place. Yep. And so I think being able to identify what those clean and dirty fuel sources look like and knowing when to tap into them but again like I saw talked about earlier it's self-awareness. How much is it going to cost me to use this button? Do I need to go nuclear for this set? If the answer is no, then don't like me, I'm telling you right now, because it is my last leg day here in San Antonio I'm gonna go nuclear.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

I posted on my, I don't know if you saw my reel the other day that I posted and in the caption I was like this is my last week of training in Texas before I move. I moved to Texas largely in part to train at this gym. So this last week of training it means a lot to me. And so I I said in the caption I was like I'll worry about fatigue management next week. This week I'm just gonna go in there and have fun. But it's like the normal fatigue management that I would have or consider is not really in my mental framework right now. It's I'm just gonna go in there, I'm gonna kill shit. I'm going to use whatever fuel sources I need knowing that for the next few days like I'm just gonna be traveling. I'm not gonna be training I don't need to worry about hitting my next leg day in two days or three days or whatever it might be because I understand what I can use and then how I can recover from.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Yeah. Yeah dude 100% and like I used to be very impressed by the people who can just like push really fucking hard and I would just see their videos training and all of this stuff. And nowadays I'm much more impressed by someone who's able to budget their energy for their life as a whole. So like you're it's not just the first few sets of your first few exercises that moves up every week it's all of them together. The very last set of the very last exercise the 25th set that you're doing in that session that's also moving up because you budget your energy and guess what? You're gonna drive home you're gonna take a shower and then you're gonna go to work and you're also able to fulfill all of your duties at work. And then once you're done with that you can focus on your hobbies and then after that you can focus on your family and your recovery. Like if you're able to budget all of that then I'm like okay you got it. You understand what like energy is a finite resource and how to actually like leverage that for your life as opposed to letting it just fucking dominate and and run yourself like to the ground because you have no self-control. That's truly what it boils down to. You just don't control your emotions. You are you are guided by your emotions as much as that person who you look at that and you're like oh that person is too emotional. They're too volatile and stuff. I'm like you're the same way. You're still guided by your emotions just don't realize it. Different side of the spectrum.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Different side of the spectrum exactly many go ahead. No no go go ahead. Well I was going to say one of the things that I notice about the people who work themselves into the ground in that way where they don't really know how to budget their energy is because they overly identify with the identity of being a hard worker. And when you feel like you have to pull back or something is telling you to pull back, you're not going to do it because anything less than your full effort feels like it is challenging your ego and your identity that you've built up about being like I'm this hardcore bodybuilder like I'm gonna go do an hour on the Stairmaster. It's like, dude, your legs have been shot for the last two days why are you not saying this to your coach? Well I don't want my coach to think I'm a bitch and then like they're gonna think I'm complaining about being tired. Yeah they're not your boss they're not gonna fire you bro you can be honest. And that's the thing too is like if you're able to give your coach accurate feedback, they can accurately adjust the plan because at the end of the day, you get points for how you look on stage. You don't get points for how hard you work or how much you suffer but a lot of people overly identify with if I suffer more, then I am a better bodybuilder. But that is not always the case. The case is you're a better bodybuilder for showing up on stage with the best possible physique. And part of what that means is being able to manage your energy and your recovery over a long period of time. One theme that I find with a lot of the bodybuilders I work with is not knowing how to properly recover because recovery feels like it is taking your foot off the gas. And anything that feels like taking your foot off the gas challenges your identity about who you are.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Dude I I can relate to that so fucking bad. You know you see myself on social media I am pretty active when it comes to like putting shit out and to be able to do that the amount of work that it takes on the back end for me to like actually research and read these fucking papers and take notes and synthesize all this is just so much work. But I get to the weekend and I'm like I have this um it's almost anxiety where like I can't fucking chill and because once I chill I'm completely relaxed. Like like no I can't do shit. I'm gonna stay the whole day in bed and recharge but then I'm not sure that the next day I'm gonna be able to just turn that thing back on and move back on track. So it's just easier to just like stay on a more like elevated yeah just like keep pushing it. So like I found strategies like okay you're gonna work for half a day on the weekends just so you don't lose your mojo like that's that's fine. But like I would love to eventually get to the point where like I've used you know the Eisenhower matrix so well that I can like I know which things are relevant and important. So I just do those things or I can gauge my energy levels and just be like today is going to be more of like a hold the ground type of day where we're not gonna try to advance and like conquer more ground. We're just gonna make sure that the basics are covered client work is taken care of there's nothing there's no fires that I need to put out anymore and then fucking relax. But that is man that's so so so freaking hard man but it but like one of the one one of the shifting gears here for a second one of the things that um I've you've been dealing with um with a couple of people is um they they spend you know several weeks years building up this new identity of who they want to become of who they want to be and they're working very hard to get there. And then at one point for one reason or another they they decide that like I'm not gonna do this. But let's say that the reason is not good. The reason let's say like oh it's just that I don't want to sacrifice anything more for my goal. But now because you know the person that you ought to be because you have a clear identity of like the person you need to become like now you can't even fulfill your most basic duties. And you're you're struggling now with doing the shit that was easy for you before. And what I told like these these people is like basically oh no there's a disconnect between who you know you need to become and who you are being right now. You don't want to give up any more of your like accommodations and like your comforts and things like that. Cool that's totally fine. But that's not cohesive with the image of the person that you have been creating for the past three years man. So like obviously there's going to be a disconnect and that disconnect is going to generate anxiety and how do you deal with anxiety you're gonna eat more you're gonna skip the gym to do something else with your friends and all this type of shit and the whole fucking castle just crumbles down man. How do you deal with this type of stuff with this disconnect between the person you need to be that you owe to yourself to become that you truly believe that I I must become this person because this is who I truly am in the deepest part of my core but I'm not living that way. So I just because I'm not living that way because of one thing or another that I'm not willing to sacrifice like let's say oh I want to go to prep I want to bodybuild but I don't want to like miss a single social event. You know it's like cool I mean I would love to have a unicorn that shits money but like problem is I've never found one you know so like how do you deal with that man?

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Well I think you broke it down really well in terms of identifying misalignment. And I think that misalignment is actually the root cause of burnout which I know we're gonna get into later but what I what I've found at least working in the military sector and with high level professional athletes, college athletes, business people is that you can work a lot harder than you think. And working hard in and of itself is not what causes the burnout. What causes the burnout is misalignment when you don't have belief that what you are doing is actually leading you toward that right direction because a lot of us we have an ideal person that we know we should become or that we're trying to become or an identity that we're aspiring to. And when we're doing things that are not in alignment with becoming that it creates internal friction. That misalignment also becomes part of your identity which goes to not keeping promises to yourself right because if you're not keeping promises you become someone who doesn't keep promises to yourself. So if you're if you're a bodybuilder who says like yeah I want to or you want to be a bodybuilder who gets on stage and competes and your entire mental barrier to becoming a bodybuilder is well I don't want to hire a coach because coaches are really expensive. Right? You've created misalignment in your life because you've created an identity that you know you want to aspire to but you're not taking the steps to move in the direction of that identity. And so subconsciously you can recognize that I'm not doing what I know I should be doing or that I want to be doing.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

And every single human has that inner dialogue whether it's conscious and it's at the forefront or it's not man that's so that's so so freaking real man and I I just like thinking about so many moments in my life where that has happened. But like you like like you just said like when someone consistently breaks promises to themselves they don't just fail at that particular task. They actually become someone who breaks promises. And the you know the easiest way to step out of that is to stop fucking breaking your promises. It's it's truly that simple so to speak right it's like like if you're if your promises they're like hey I'm going to I don't like the language of like locking in and like just you know I'm gonna like switch from zero to a hundred now and just focus 100% on this because that's not what resilience is. It's just how fast you bounce back. But like if you're if you're a if you're someone who says like hey I'm gonna I'm gonna do this diet because I want to look good to go to the beach or for a photo shoot or something like that. Man like every time you take an extra bite of something that is having an effect on your fucking identity shit. Yeah it says you need to clear some some uh free space and then rejoin. Yeah probably your browser like some cash okay are we back? Yeah I believe so quick intermission guys we're back though there we go so back back to to what we're talking about of like breaking uh your identity and breaking your promises to yourself I found that like one of the easiest ways to not break your promises is to structure your life so that breaking the promises actually becomes harder than not breaking them. You know like do you agree? Like how how how do you think about this stuff? Like walk me through that.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

I fully agree. I actually made some reels specifically on this and talked about it. And so this goes back to like reverse engineering your life right so first thing you want to do is identify like what is the thing that I am working towards and then two how do I build structures into my life that are going to allow me to uphold the promises that are going to get me towards that identity because building towards an identity is really just a series of uncompromising promises that you have kept to yourself. So for instance for me my rest days are typically Thursday or sorry Wednesdays and Sundays. So those are my two meal prep days that I use to get all of my food ready for the week I bulk prep all my protein which makes the rest of my week really easy because I'm also working full time I'm also running a business I also live with my girlfriend I'm also bodybuilding competitively. And so when I start talking about what do I need to make sure that I'm successful in all of these different domains, it is creating structures around protecting the So that way I can actually engage in all of the small behaviors that are going to lead to success in every single one of those domains. So for business, that means I have specific business hours that I'm working with my clients. Once I'm done working with my clients, then I can be a present boyfriend and we can sit on the couch and we can watch our show together, or we can talk about our week or the research that she's doing or whatever it might be. And so what it really comes down to is, like you said, structuring everything in your life around those things, but then also building in like free time or time to play and go out and be social butterfly. And maybe you want to go travel, that's really important to you. So it's building in that time into those structures because when you build that structure, that's what actually dictates the freedom that you can have in those free times. Versus if your entire life is just chaos and you don't actually have the structure, then you're going to just fail at everything. Because yeah, one, you're either going to forget to do things, two, you're not going to have enough time to do things, right? And you're not going to be able to hold uphold healthy boundaries between all the different domains within your life.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

Yeah. And that creates so much anxiety because it starts piling up in the back of your brain, like everything that you need to do, but now you don't know if you're going to have time to do. And now you're resting, but you don't know if you should be working instead of resting. And so, like what I do very easily, I time block the shit out of everything. Yeah. Like I have like block time in my schedule that I will not be replying to anyone. I don't care who you are or what's happening. If it's an emergency, call 911, not my, not me. You know, otherwise it can wait till tomorrow. But like my time with my wife is sacred, bro. It's like I know exactly how long it takes me for me to wind down so that I can be able to sleep on time. So I just work myself backwards of like, okay, if I'm gonna be asleep at this time, I go all the way down. Like, this is when I put my blue light glasses, this is the time that I eat my meal, this is the time that I take my supplements, this is the time that I like change the light colors in my house. Like, exactly. Like it's it's everything is timed. And then a lot of people are like, man, but that's you lose so much freedom with that. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Freedom is true. Freedom is the ability of you that you have to be able to reach the things that you truly fucking care about. Not just doing whatever the fuck pops up in your head in the moment. It's it's being able to set like aside the things that you want momentarily for the things that you want long term. That is true freedom. And you're not going to achieve that ever without being very intentional about every single waking hour of your life. You know, like it's it's it's just the way that it works. You have to manage this shit. You know, a lot of people they they're like, oh, I'm I'm I'm gonna track my food now. It's like, okay, cool, but you still don't want to like track your time. Like, that's also a finite resource, man. Like, come on, like we all understand the concept of budgeting for finances. Like, budget your energy, budget the time with your spouse, you know. Like when you realize that, like, oh, this week we're not gonna be able to have a date or have dinner together, that's a problem. Like, that can very easily become something that's gonna bite you in the ass the week after. Because it doesn't have to be like, yeah, exactly. It's like, oh, for three months with me and my wife haven't gone out. I'm like, bro, no, you should have caught that on week one, man. Like, with the first time that that happened, you should have realized there is a definitely a problem here. But ever at the same time, you know, as an entrepreneur and everything, we uh we have to sometimes go through these periods of like, okay, I really need to focus on something. So, like for myself, I create courses a lot. So, like, whenever I'm creating a new course, man, I need to just put my head down and work myself like until I can't work anymore and do that for about of like X number of days and then put that piece out. So, like, that goes back to one of the concepts that you laid out in your video, which was the concept of seasons, right? The periods where you go all in in one domain and like something else has to give. So, like, I adjust my training, I adjust my schedule, I adjust my meals, I simplify the fuck out of every area of my life. I'll be eating out, I'll be door dashing food. Like, I don't care what it needs to be done, but that becomes a priority, not doing everything at the same time. So, how do you help someone walk into this like high output season intentionally instead of just burning out and calling that shit, oh, that's just the side effect of dedication, you know?

SPEAKER_00 48:13

Yeah. So the first thing I would have them do is identify what are the things that are also going to suffer at the cost of you being able to fully prioritize whatever the one thing is, right? So I've got business people that, you know, they're coaches for other bodybuilders. And so like they have a high point of their competitive season where it's like, I have to travel to seven different shows in nine weeks. It's like, okay, maybe you don't want to be in prep yourself during that time. That also means that you're probably going to be gone three to four days out of every week, which means you need to set a system in place with your spouse to make sure that you're upholding effective and healthy communication. And also, if you have you travel three weeks in a row, you're home one week, you better make that one week about connection with your spouse or connection with your family and making sure that you are pouring into those other areas when you are able to identify allotted time for those things. But the first thing is being able to identify first and foremost, what areas are going to suffer? How are they going to suffer? And then what are we going to do about it? Or what am I going to do about it? Because if you're not auditing that portion of your life, like you said, you know, one week goes by where you're not able to take your wife out on a date night. Okay, maybe not a red flag, but you should probably be able to identify why was that time compromised? If I say that that time is sacred and I compromised it, I better have a damn good reason for it. And also I better have systems in place so that it doesn't become a habit because one week can easily turn into two and two becomes three, and then all of a sudden it's we're not going on dates anymore. We feel disconnected. Now we're not really talking to each other at home. And now you have life stress that's also impacting your ability to work at a high level. And so it's understanding how all of this stuff is interconnected and how you need to communicate with the different domains within your life, whether it's another individual, whether it's another system. Like you said, there's going to be times where if you're fully focused on creating a course, that might mean that you need to hire a meal prep company for three weeks to deliver your food. But if you've identified that like making sure I still am able to track all my food is important to me, I better have concessions in place that I'm able to make where maybe I'm paying a little bit more to have someone meal prep for me so that way I can still stay in alignment in this other domain while I'm pouring more than normal into this domain.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

Yeah, and I wish people understood that because they would, it would make sense whenever they look at like, oh, this course costs money. Outrageous. I can't believe that you're charging for your own business, right? Like people act that way. But I'm like, yo, like I literally need to spend more money in order to make this shit work. I need to pay for subscriptions of a bunch of services. I need to pay for papers that are not available to the public. I need to pay for mentorships to be able to like sit down with people and bounce ideas back and forth and all of this stuff. It's like, man, like really understand that you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to pour into this in order to make this thing work. Because if you just try to hold everything together at the same time on your own, it's not gonna work. You're gonna need support. Otherwise, like shit is gonna, it's it's going to break. Absolutely, man. So you've um the last thing here that I want to touch before we get into some questions here is um you said that at the end of everything, like if someone is working, if they're doing this only for the outcome, the process eventually just hollows out. And I see that shit happening all the fucking time. You've watched people burn through their love for the sport because they're chasing something external. What do you think is the real reason most people lose the thread? And how do you help them find it again?

SPEAKER_00 52:01

I think it's very multifactorial when people start to lose their focus on their process. Obviously, there are a lot of different things that we can add into that, into those factors, right? So for some people, it's financially related. So if I'm working with a professional bodybuilder, they want to perform well at their shows because better performances on stage equals bigger contracts, right? We are doing, we are competing in prize bodybuilding. So it's like the checks that you win from winning a big show like a Pittsburgh or an Arnold or an Olympia is not as an insignificant amount of money. Maybe some of the smaller shows, you know, like $4,000, $5,000, it's kind of a drop in the bucket. But once you start understanding that, like, hey, finances are involved, social media is involved. If I'm performing well, if I'm looking crazy on social media, we all understand that's going to drive more followers, more followers, more views, more views, more likes, more likes, bigger sponsorship deals. Right? When you start to move away from why you actually got into bodybuilding in the first place, or whatever sport or endeavor it is, that's when you start to lose the thread of the process. Because when we all first started training, a lot of us got into it for the love of the training. There are definitely some people who like, I'll be honest, I got into bodybuilding because a girl that I liked in high school was going on a um on our senior grad trip. Because I was a football player, I played offensive line, and I was like, I need to figure out how to lose weight. So it was a very external reason why I started getting into bodybuilding. But then I already had a base love for training because I played football. And so it was now just changing the perception of the love for training from being able to perform well as a football player to now being able to perform well as a competitive bodybuilder. And so when you're able to focus then on the process rather than just the outcomes, you're gonna notice that you're gonna have a lot of that cleaner fuel, anyways, because now you're not outsourcing where your drive is coming from to beating another person or signing a bigger check or getting more followers or more clout or whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Dude, I love that. I love that so much. Now, let's try to help some people out on Instagram. We uh put out some questions there. We got some questions that are a little bit odd, and we also got some questions that are really fucking good. So let's cover them all and see uh what we can do with it. So let's start with the with an easy one. What protocol or TRT are you on right now if you talk about this stuff?

SPEAKER_00 54:34

Nothing right now. Eventually, definitely gonna be getting on some stuff. But you know, with the kind of work that I do right now with government contracting, uh it just doesn't really make sense. And then also gonna be moving to Korea, so I wasn't quite sure how like getting a TRT prescription was gonna work out there. So I was like, you know what? I don't want to muddy the waters. I'm gonna go out there for a couple of years, and then when I come back, then we'll look at, you know, getting to a doctor, getting into a clinic, and then taking that next step.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Yeah, I like it. I like it. Well, myself, I'm in a fat loss phase right now, and I'm doing a proper phalos phase, not a mini cut. So androgens are a little bit higher, not as high as a peak-off season, you know, growth phase push. But um I'm currently on testosterone, EQ, and uh anadrol. I don't give out doses of the shit that I'm on because I don't think it helps anyone. Uh, it's very individual. And then when it comes to peptides, I am on uh DSIP, GHK copper, growth hormone. That's it. That's everything that I'm taking. Oh, MOTC and SS31. Um, yeah, that's that's it. And then every now and then I'll take like NAD plus when I need energy. When when I whenever I notice that I need energy, but I don't need to be psyched up because like today is my rest day, so I don't take stimulants today. I'm not gonna take a buttload of caffeine. I just take a shot of NAD plus and call it a day. So that's a clear example of something that we talked about today on like budgeting what you need to do.

SPEAKER_00 55:51

Well, in terms of peptides, I do use MOT C and some SLU just because I was coming off of a growth phase, so now we're just kind of trying to hold and let the body recomp. So just MOTC, SLU, and then uh I like to use some methylene blue every now and then on like my heavy workflow days. But those are those are kind of like the main ones right now. And I was using RETA for a bit as well, and that that was Okay, I forgot about a bunch of shit.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

I forgot about a bunch of shit. I'm taking SLU, I'm taking Columbuterol, and I'm taking Yahimbean, and I'm taking fucking I take methylene blue just on my heavy work days, especially if I'm not doing stimulants. So what the way that I do this is I will do my low days on my training days, and then I refeed on my off days. So I do a de output, I take less steps, I don't focus on a bunch of other shit, and I just let my body reset, I let my system, my nervous system reset. So I don't do a lot of stimulus, but I'll do something like methylene blue for those days. It works very, very well.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

My drug of choice here, caffeine.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Yeah, man. I I dude, I yester yesterday I had Jesus Christ, please, someone watching at home, don't do the same thing. I literally have the genetic testing showing my like that how I process caffeine, like my on my CYP450. Like, I can do very high doses of caffeine. When I was asking for my refill of my ADHD medication today, and I take two of them at the same time, like, man, the doctor was like, Really? And I'm like, look at my file. I that's literally what I've been taking my entire life. So it's just like I took yesterday, it was 1.2 grams of caffeine. So today we're just doing 200 milligrams. That's just like one cup of coffee, like a very hefty cup, and that's it. All right, question Brody Miller. What up, my man? Okay, she said he said, Um, should you supplement with DHGA if it comes back low while you're on TRT? Not really super focused on what we're talking about. So let me just say if your DHEA is low, sure you can supplement with it. But understand that DHGA is a marker that moves a lot when you do the testing. So like don't be like DHA and pregnant alone, don't take in cortisol and glucose and insulin. Like, don't take any of those as like a definite marker of like where you are at, like for sure. And also remember, there's about like a 20% margin of error on a lot of these tests. So just don't don't freak out when you see something weird. Okay, that's a good question for you. I'm also interested. What are your macros right now, bro?

SPEAKER_00 58:04

Uh, I actually don't know. I'm on a meal plan right now. I've I've so I've been with just I've been with Justin Shire for a little over four years now. We started working together February of 22. Um, but not super high food. I get around, I think, on my train, well, every day, uh, I get about like 500 grams of cooked rice, which is not a ton of food. Um one of one my last meal of the day has no carbs in it. Um I get about 300 grams of fruit, and then all of my meals have either 160 or 175 grams of cooked protein. And then a couple little and then like one whole egg in the first meal. But like it's not a ton of food by any means, but I'm someone whose body type, like I store body fat very easily. So we have to we have to run food pretty low, otherwise I blow up like no problem.

SPEAKER_01 58:57

Yeah, yeah. No, I'm I'm I'm the same way. And I before I did my GI phase, um, that I I had to take care of my GI system, I was maintaining my body weight at 44, 4,600 calories. Now, at like at 3,000 calories, I'm gaining weight. So like it it literally like changed how my body processes nutrients. So right now on my low days, um, I'm eating 2,400 calories, so 190 grams of protein, 70 grams of fat, and 250 grams of of carbs. And then on my high days is just 2,900 calories, not a huge refeed, 190 protein, 60 grams of fat, and then 400 carbs. That's that's that's it, nothing fancy. Okay, Tom Schuster, what it up, my man. How to conquer self-doubt from past failures? Fuck.

SPEAKER_00 59:42

Man, that's a great question, right? And I think that one, I actually just made a post about it when Kobe Bryant's talking about doubt. He says doubt is pointless because no matter what happens at the end of the day, whatever the outcome is, it's really just data, right? And so you want to use that data to inform whatever the next decision needs to be. So what ends up happening when self-doubt influences your decision making or your standards or your output, essentially what you're saying is that this outcome matters more to me than my ability to do the thing that I know I want to do. So while past failures, there's very important data that you need to pull out of that to help you inform your next decision, but the doubt comes from a place that is you're you're identifying with the outcome too much to the point that that outcome becomes more important than the doing of the actual task. Right. And so what you need to do is also identify other times when you have succeeded. Because a lot of times as human beings, we tend to discount evidence that is proving our point, and we tend to seek out evidence that proves the self-doubt or the negative self-talk, etc. So you can probably think of two or three times when you failed in the past, but you're probably also discounting the 10 or 15 times that you've succeeded.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:07

And so learning that is not self-awareness. That is not self-awareness. That's just fucking self-hatred, just dressed up differently, man. Yeah. I uh I made a video about binge eating one time, and I said, like, dude, you need to stop taking a binge eating personally because that's all that it's look at it as data, man. It's the fact that like I was under these conditions, psychologically speaking, my environment was this, and then when I had this food specifically, it triggered something in my brain that made it impossible for me to control. So cool. I just learned that when I put these three things together, that's a red flag. So that's a trigger, and I'm gonna treat it as such, and I'm going to avoid that in the same way that I avoid exercises that hurt my shoulder. Like it's just there's nothing personal. I don't beat myself up for like, oh man, I fucked my shoulder up. I'm a piece of shit. I'm not gonna be able to do this. Like, no one thinks that way. Think about the same way when it comes to food and binge eating. It literally changed the way that I think about this shit, and I never had issues with binge eating ever again.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:02

Yeah. And I think honestly, like a big part of that too is like if you really start to get into like addiction psychology, a big part of that is also the environmental triggers that are involved with it. So, like so, like if you're an alcoholic, probably a good idea not to have alcohol in the house. Probably not a good idea to go to the bar that you used to go get wasted at with your friends, or if you had a drug addiction, don't hang out with the friends who always have cocaine with them. Right. And so part of it is like changing the environment so that way you can structure your life in a way where, yes, you may be in recovery from whatever the addiction was. And I know it's not I'm overly simplifying it, but you can at least reduce the probability that you're going to engage in that behavior again by changing the environment that triggers the behavior.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

Dude, I love that. I was in rehab when I was 14 years old. So I understand a thing or two about addiction, and it's like it can't, it comes from that. It's like literally understanding triggers. It's it's so fucking important. Um, Moussaeb asked, gut health and IBS. I'm sorry, bro. That's that's way too off topic. Okay, Mad X Medelin said, is healthy obsession with whatever your passion is a necessity at a young age?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

Maddox, what's up? I know he's a big fan of like the work that uh that I've been putting out. Do I think it's a necessity? I think that learning how to healthily obsess over something is an incredibly important skill. Because I think what ends up happening is that for a lot of people, they start to obsess over something to the point where it becomes unhealthy. And that's where you start to get lost in the weeds. And so some of the bodybuilders that I work with are so overly attentive to detail that it almost becomes paralyzing. And so that's where it starts to become an unhealthy obsession. So can you healthily obsess over the big needle movers, right? Like getting as close to eight hours of sleep as possible. Yes, that is a healthy obsession. Going through a four-hour nightly routine to help you wind down, where if one of the steps is out of order, one of them gets messed up, probably not a healthy obsession anymore. Chris Williamson, he actually just posted, I don't know if you're familiar with him Modern Wisdom podcast, but he recently posted up a clip where he's talking about one of his buddies who was in his like health optimization phase. And he was like, Yeah, my buddy has like this, he used to have this like three-hour nightly routine where, you know, he's got like the blue light goggles on, he's got like the mouth tape, he's got like the nose strips, like the whole nine yards. And he was downstairs and he's brushing his teeth in the dark with his blue light glasses on, he's got a red light on so it doesn't disturb him. And his girlfriend came from upstairs and she came in to the bathroom, like she turned on the light and he was like, ah, and like he couldn't fall asleep that night because his whole nighttime routine got destroyed. Versus her, like she was like scrolling on TikTok five minutes before she went to bed, and then all of a sudden, like knocked out. It's like there's a level of healthy obsession that helps you to engage in the behaviors that are going to lead to long-term success. And there's an unhealthy obsession where if you're too in the weeds and you have a microscope on like where is this chicken coming from? Is the chicken grass-fed or grain fed? Like, you probably don't need to worry about that. You probably just need to worry about like being very close to having like everything, all of your main movers hit for the day.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:15

Yeah. Honestly, dude, I if I could have chosen a different name instead of optimal something, I would have because the optimization biohacking space is fucking insane, bro. It's people focus, they they fucking major in the minors, bro. It's it's it's fucking wild. Question that I'm gonna knock out very fast off season stack, test an NPP or test an EQ. Whatever works for you and doesn't give you side effects. Height maxing protocol. I think those things are bullshit. I don't think they exist.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

So let's G G agent provider.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:43

When you're young and provide. Yeah. Yeah. G agent proviring when you're young. Do you have any questions from your Instagram?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

Yeah. So one of the ones I got was like, What is your death row meal? Shit, what is yours? I I love me a good pasta, like a good pesto pasta. So I would probably go. Like a good, like Italian, like truly authentic pesto, bow tie pasta, feta cheese, some little like sweet Roma tomatoes, and then either like a big juicy ribeye or like two filet mignons. That's gonna be like the main course for the dessert. I love me apple cobbler and some ice creams.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:25

That's a big meal, man. Okay, so for myself, I'm very picky with who makes my steak. So if I can get a Brazilian chef to make me a picanha, top noble sirloin, I'm gonna have that. And then for the sides, I want some Brazilian cheese bread and some coxinha. And uh for the dessert, probably I don't care about desserts as much, but probably some like uh some flan, I think is what it's called in English. Flan or whatever the fuck. Yeah. Yep. Like that that shit slaps. That that shit is pretty fucking good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:53

And then I had one more question as well. What does like a pre-performance routine look like going to the gym?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:58

Yeah, I I'm very I'm very like particular with that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:01

Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:02

Okay, so in the car, I'm not doing shit. I'm I'm just talking to my wife. I'm listening to a podcast, I'm chilling, I'm not listening to anything a lot of the times, most of the time now. Actually, once I get to the gym, I'm gonna do my cardio. And as I'm doing my cardio, I'm answering client messages and things like that. Once I'm done with that, I'm reviewing my training. And as I'm walking on the treadmill, I start literally like thinking about the muscles that I'm gonna activate. I'm already thinking like this is gonna be the best fucking workout of this week. I'm gonna get such a good connection with my muscles. All I need to remember is execute my tempo well. I'm going through every single thing that I need to do in my head, and then I go for like the exercise that I'm doing, and I just focus on that one set. I don't think about the rest of the workout or anything like that. I just do that one set. I'm completely chill until the moment that the set starts. When the set starts, I put on my earbuds, I press the play, I find a song that's gonna slap the shit out of me, and then I go for my set. Like that's literally the only thing that I do. But I'm always drinking the same pre-workout, I'm always drinking the same electrolytes when I go to the gym. I listen to music from the same playlist, so it's very repeatable. And I'm literally training myself to like whenever these cues are in place, this is how I act. So I find like coming from competitive shooting, cues visualization is essential, right? Like you have fucking 45 targets that you've never seen that arrangement in your entire life. You have three minutes to make a plan, and then you need to execute without thinking, because if you stop to think, like, oh, where's the next target? You lost. So you need to just be executing step by step. And that's how I do it at the gym as well. How about you?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:31

I love that. So for me, my pre-performance routine starts as I'm walking through the doors at the gym. And this is actually something that I took from football. So my drive to the gym, I used to put like a big emphasis on it. Now I don't anymore. For me, that's kind of just like chill time. Like, yeah, like I can, I'll sometimes like be on the phone with my girl or whatever. Music's usually pretty good. But for me, it's like walking into the door or walking through that door at the gym is almost like this threshold that I'm crossing in my mind, where it's like outside the gym is like Gabriel, like the businessman, the boyfriend, whatever. But when I walk through the gym, it's like, okay, bodybuilder mode engaged. And the reason why I take it from football is I remember when I used to play high school football, is we would get ready for our game, like in the film room. And when we walked out of the film room onto the field, everybody slaps the top of the door as you're walking through the door, right? Because we used to, it was like, you've probably seen it before, but like a lot of teams I'll have like just win or whatever as like a sign, and everybody slaps the sign. And so for me, that was my cue of like when I cross this threshold, like it is time to go to like high performance mode, basically. So for me, it's walking into the gym. There's like a trigger that for me is like, okay, we're here to work. And then I have a pre-performance routine before big top sets, where if it's either like a hack squat, deadlift, or like a big chest press, I always put a song on that has like a long buildup before it gets to the big port, the like the heavy hitting part. I go to the bathroom, I take a piss, even if it's like a small piss, even if it's just like a little dribble that comes out. But for me, it's about when I finish washing my hands and I walk out of the bathroom, it's like the walk to whatever the machine is that I'm about to use. I envision myself as like you've probably seen Gladiator, like when Russell Crowe's walking into the arena. It's like I'm walking into my arena, and then I'm there, letting the music play. Once I get onto the machine, it's three deep breaths and then go. I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:30

Clean and just easy to execute, man, and repeatable. That's that's what really matters. Dude, this right here is exactly why I do this. Gabriel, man, thank you so much, man. I the the way that you think about this stuff, the precision that you bring to it, the fact that you've like stress-tested these ideas inside cockpits and on competition stages and in like really messy lives of real people, that's not something you find every day. So, this conversation is gonna sit with a lot of people for a long time, and I think that's really rare. If you're um if you're listening to this and you want more of Gabriel, and trust me, you do, go find him. He's on Instagram at uh Rosha underscore sports psych. Reach out to him directly. If you are a high performer who feels like the mental side uh of your game is the ceiling that you keep heating, he's the exact person you want in your corner. And for everybody here, if this episode did something to you, if it cracked something open, if it made you think differently about just one thing, share it. Send it to one person who needs to hear it because that's how we are gonna grow this thing together. New episode with another interview coming out next Friday. Every week, I'm bringing you someone who's operating at the highest level, people who have earned the right to speak on what they speak on, people who are going to challenge the way that you think and raise the standard of what you believe is possible for yourself. You do not want to miss what's coming. Subscribe whatever you listen, and I'll see you Friday. Peace out.