Self-Care, Boundaries, and Puppy Power in ABA

Sarah and Kristine are joined by Reese for a conversation about self-care, burnout, boundaries, and what helps behavior analysts stay grounded in the work.

They talk about the early years of becoming a provider, carrying client concerns home, sleep, exercise, nature, hydration, community, professional boundaries, psychological safety, and what it means to enter a family’s home with humility and clarity.

This episode is a thoughtful reminder that self-care is not separate from clinical work. It is part of how providers stay healthy enough to support families well.

Self-care in clinical work can sound soft or optional, but this episode frames it differently. Sarah and Kristine talk about self-care as part of being able to show up safely, professionally, and effectively for families. The episode also names the importance of boundaries, including moments when providers need to respond directly to inappropriate or unsafe behavior. 

Acorns to Oaks is presented by Nurture & Nature ABA, providing compassionate ABA therapy and parent support in Valley Village and the San Fernando Valley.

Learn more or schedule a consultation: nurtureandnatureaba.com

Follow Nurture & Nature on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, and LinkedIn.

This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for individualized clinical care.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Welcome to Acorns and Oaks. My name is Sarah Moreau, Board Certified Behavior Analyst and Family Nurse Practitioner, and I'm here with the wonderful Christine Dixon, also Board Certified Behavior Analyst and uh Advocate. Yes. And of course, the one that I'm really distracted by is Miss Reese, this beautiful girl who has joined us today to talk about self-care and puppy power.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Yes. Well, you know, 15 years in the field, I've really learned that self-care is vital to helping other people. And that the breaks are just as important as the active work. It's very true. Yeah. I think when you first become certified, I struggled with the balance. Did you? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

I failed at the balance. I think I did. What did that look like? Yeah. I mean, I would go home thinking about clients. I would wake up at night thinking about clients. I would not necessarily identify my circle of influence and what I could actually accomplish in a day. Um, and I would really beat myself up over it when it wasn't working the way that I thought it should. Um yeah, yeah, I think that it was really stressful at the start. It can be, for sure. And an interesting thing about the nursing ethical board is that in that code is the nurse must take care of themselves.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Yeah. And I don't know. I correct me if I'm wrong, do we discuss that beyond, you know, transitioning in and out of cases like our own self-care as behavior analysts?

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yes, it's it is definitely in our code that you have to be competent, you have to report certain things to the board.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

But is there language about you have to take care of yourself and beware? I don't think that exact language is in there, but it should be. I think it's important. I it's definitely part of nursing. And when I saw that, I was like, oh wow, that would be cool. Because I could have really used that when I was starting as a behavior analyst.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Um healthy habits, you know, it's important.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

This is the structure that allows you to um be vital, absolutely vitality in life, um and to make a difference for other people. I think it's really crucial. So some of the things that I like to do for self-care, uh, I love to jog and hike and be outside. And look at this beautiful view we have here.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Yeah, we are uh we're bathing in nature, nature bathing as behavior analysts. And it really does. There is actually scientific research that says, hey, uh patients in the hospital that were looking at nature had better outcomes, right? Than those that were not. And so nature can be really restorative.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

It can be and relaxing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Having that connection is really, I think, an important part of being healthy. Um but Reese, I know, she's comfortable. She's she is just a wonderful dog, and we are both dog lovers. And I'm so grateful, Reese, that you could join us today.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

What are your thoughts on self-care? It's very important to take naps throughout the day. That's right. And it is good. Sleep is important, right? Sleep is very important. Important for dogs, it's important for people to keep us vital and healthy.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

That's true. And you know, there used to be, I think, this emphasis on um, I work really hard. Yes, Reese, I agree with that. Um, I work really hard and I don't sleep that often, and that makes me really great. And um no, no, it doesn't. No, actually, it makes you not great.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

And maybe grouchy. Yeah, and maybe short-tempered.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Yeah, your brain needs to uh repair and clean itself during sleep. And if you're getting not enough sleep, you're not living up to your best potential.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

I agree. So exercise, exercise, sleep, part of self-care, nature, nature, drawing boundaries, yes, healthy boundaries. That is a such an important theme, you know, as to when you're going to engage, when you're not going to engage with clients, what work time versus leisure time, defining those really throughout the the work week. Yeah. And then taking breaks, going on vacation, seeing friends, family, being with others, yeah, not doing work, being with your dog. What do you think, Reese? Huh? It's like, yeah, it's good to relax in nature, I think is what Reese is saying right now. And pets. Pets are very reinforcing, right? Yeah. A lot of people have to be taught how to take care of themselves, right? Like, you know, drinking water. Yep. Uh, very important. Dehydration leads to, you know, some real problems. That's true. You know, you can become dizzy and yeah, lots of lots of issues if you're dehydrated. The important thing, just like Reese is showing here, is this full relaxation when you're not working.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Now you have two dogs. I do have two dogs um and a husband. Um, you know, not ranked in any particular order. Um, but spending time with the the dogs and and with my husband is a really important part of my life outside of my work. Um, and I think it just makes me better than to go into work to be able to have that uh respite time for myself.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

And I think you're right, the mindset really was, and it was for for our generation was work hard, play hard. Uh work hard, get ahead. Yeah. That rat race mentality that was really so strong in the 80s. Really was really dominated the US culture. But now it I think, you know, the pendulum has swung the other way. We're definitely more into self-care, into uh healthy habits, taking care of ourselves. Um, so from a nurse practitioner, um, you know, what makes people run down? What makes people uh have vitality?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Yeah. So we have already talked quite a bit about healthy habits, but certainly, you know, eating well, sleeping well, getting exercise, engaging in good social relationships, uh, those are all really uh very beneficial for your health, for your well-being, um, for your ability to function well in your work, whatever that may be. Um, I think some of the things that run people down are maybe not great coping mechanisms. So maybe drinking too much, or uh smoking, or engaging in things that are not healthy but help you in the moment to feel less stress. Um, those aren't great stress coping mechanisms. And those are things that are going to catch up with you and eventually uh make you feel run down. Um, we talked about hydration, how important that is. Um, healthy foods, making sure that we're getting enough fiber and we're eating enough fruits and vegetables and healthy proteins. Um, Reese, I thought you'd be interested in the food. Don't fall asleep during talk. So cute. He's like, I can not. Oh, she's so tired. She's like, it's nap time. Yeah. Um, but yes, getting rest, Reese, very important. Uh uh, I also really think it's important to get your vaccinations and get your regular visits with your healthcare team. Um, get your screenings because it's always easier to treat something early. Uh, if there is something that's uh out of order and uh that needs to be attended to.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Yeah. Yeah. And I think when you're first starting out, another part of self-care is acknowledging that you're not gonna be perfect. Yeah. When you don't know everything. You don't know anything.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

I still don't know everything.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Yes. You don't know everything. Uh things are not gonna be perfect textbooks. There are gonna be a lot of confounding and extraneous variables that you'll have to address and look at.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

And that that's part of the job. It is. And it's not maybe some things that you are encountering you haven't talked about or even heard about before. So it's always great to have those mentor relationships, people you can reach out to and say, Hey, what should I do here? Um, especially in those early years, you know, when you're being encountered with all kinds of different um experiences, you may not have a family of your own. You may not have experienced these relationship issues that we see sometimes in the households that we work in. So having people that you can reach out to and speak to uh really important support.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

And recognizing that as a behavior analyst, you are working in mental health, which means sometimes people aren't happy. That's right. They're not happy with their lives, their circumstances, their child, the contingencies, what the school said, what the doctor's telling them, you know, and you have to really actively listen and not judge. That's right. Yeah, be very open-minded, you know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

And making space for for people to speak about their experience without feeling like you have to jump in and solve it right away. I think that that is a skill that's important to learn when you start because then that way you're giving them a chance not only to speak and be heard, but you're giving yourself a chance to really take in the information and consider what should be done before trying to take action.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Yeah. And then recognizing as well that there is a boundary of professionalism and psychological safety that you as a behavior analyst are entitled to. Not only are you entitled to all the employee laws and things, your breaks and things like that, that are lawful compliance, you're entitled to psychological safety. And it's okay when people cross that line to have that oh hell no boundary, you know, where it's like, and you don't necessarily have to say, oh hell no, but you need to recognize when, you know, it's not psychologically healthy, um, when someone's really lashing out. And maybe with experience, you're able to take that on more and not be judgmental of it and not really process, uh, you know, identify uh with the lashing out. But there's also times when we've seen clients cross a line and we've had to step in and say, Oh, I'm so sorry, but you can't do that because it's making our team feel unsafe or yeah, and those boundaries are so important because if you do not set those boundaries, people will cross them. Clients will cross them. You know, um vitally important, those those boundaries give us structure. Yes, and uh they keep us safe, yeah, psychological safety as well. You know, one thing with the uh with the elections always coming up is that people at this time naturally want to speak about politics. Yes. And we don't speak about politics when we're at work. Yeah, we just pretend like they don't exist because really we don't want the variable of politics in our treatments, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Right? Yeah. Oh, there's just not that type of relationship. Yeah. We're there to help them with their, you know, whatever behavioral problem that we're working on. Um and that's it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

But people will judge you uh based on your pol your political beliefs, and you so you don't want to bring that into uh the treatment as part of your identity. You really want to bring a high level of professionalism that doesn't necessarily um disclose a lot of personal information about you because um, you know, people might not necessarily agree and they don't have to agree. Um you know, bringing religion into your personal beliefs in religion, yeah, you know, into treatment. Danger, danger. Yeah, it can be very dangerous because there's a high probability that you're not gonna have the same exact beliefs as your client. And that's just an additional conflict that maybe does not need to be there. Agreed, you know. Now I'm not saying not integrating the client's religious beliefs. We've we have done that. We've, for instance, integrated like praying for a coping mechanism. It's like it worked, it's part of their family culture. Yeah. But you really want to come in and you don't want to bring the fact that you just broke up with your boyfriend in this session. If you just broke up with your boyfriend or your spouse and you're not emotionally regulated, and um then you shouldn't do, shouldn't go to work that day. Yeah. You know, you have to be in a good, centered, grounded place to do this type of work.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Yes, because when you enter someone's home, it's not about you.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

And that's hard. That's really hard sometimes for the trainees who want to be behavior analysts and um some some of the professionals just entering the field.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Um, while I respect your autonomy and your authenticity, and you can express that um in this moment, it's not about you. It's about the client or the consumer or the patient or the learner, however, you you tack that situation. And that's really hard for people. It is hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing worse than when a therapist, a behavior therapist comes into a session and starts complaining about their own life to the client because that's not our role. That's our role is to lift up the client, you know. Our role is to reinforce and um, you know, to not bring more problems to the table. We're trying to get the problems off the table, you know, and you laugh, but it's really true. It is like true. If you have problems in the morning getting to the morning routine, and you have problems after school and you have problems at bedtime, well, that's a really challenging day for anyone.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

You know, the person who's coming in to help you shouldn't be bringing in additional problems.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Yeah. Now, sometimes it happens, like I got a flat tire on the way here, or you know, and it it happens, but we should work really hard to try to eliminate that and and come in with a as a grounded professional clinician. I'm not gonna force my religion, my views, my politics, you know, on you. Yeah. And then there's the boundary. It's like you also need to build rapport in self-care with your clients. So what do you choose to share? Well, common interests, right? That's what Piers tells us, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:10

So, what common interests do you share with your clients? Yeah, so sports or different activities that we both enjoy. Um, animals, certainly many of us love dogs. I know I do, and so does Christine.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Come on, you get stay with me. This is a very important and thrilling topic.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

She's so bored with us.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

She's a cuddler.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Yeah, but like neutral things that um that you can share. Um, I know some trainees can share with their their families that they're in school, that they're growing, they're learning. Um, I think that those are all fine things uh to share with clients. Um, but we don't want to share personal things and we don't want to stress out our families, um, which we have amazing therapists. I'm so grateful to be working with so many of the people in our company. Um so shout out to all of them.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

And sometimes we have to communicate things to our clients that are unpleasant. And sometimes it's really looking at well, what's the timing of that going to look like for them and putting some insights and considerations into that. But boundaries are so important for self-care.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

They really are. And it can be challenging for these younger people who come into someone's home, the family's at home and they're in their home. And there is, you know, I think um it can be difficult at the start to know how to withhold those boundaries when you're in their personal space.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Absolutely. Yeah. Because there's so many different cultures, at least in San Bernardino and Los Angeles counties, um, we have a very diverse workforce. And that's to serve a very diverse population because um, you know, finding that cultural match between the client and the therapist is vital because they're speaking the same language, sometimes literally is so important. Right. It is so important. So a big part of our mission, of course, is to serve uh the greater communities of Los Angeles and these faces, cultures, languages are all very different. And so, you know, getting to know, having cultural awareness, looking at cultural diversity, doing things uh as a person to garner experience in the different cultures or of the world is is really important. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Yeah. I think understanding where you came from and what your own culture is is really important as well. And, you know, keeping in mind that when you come into someone's home that they may not have the same background as you and to really um emphasize what they want and what their culture works, you know, within the um in the program. I think that's really important as well.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

I have to admit, I do use ABA on this doll. And look at her. She's very relaxed, happy and engaged, right? So um important, but boundaries are also important, yes. And children need boundaries, they really do. Um, one thing that I think is crucial is that kids love to cuddle and and and they want to sit on your lap and they want to be really close, like your dog, and you know, and and and get that warmth and that affection. And um really we need to teach that as oh no, I need boundary space. Yeah, yeah. Because kids should be doing that with family. So I think it's important family versus friend behaviors, but we do really don't want our therapists allowing clients to sit on laps and get like emotionally, you know, close in that kind of physically close, and redirecting to a high five or a fist bump, I think is a really good way to give that child the attention that they're seeking, but in a way that's appropriate for their relationship. Yeah.

unknown 19:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

And you also like you wouldn't you wouldn't know it now, but 15 years ago, you know, like I've I've had a lot of clients over time like sort of flirt with me and hit on me, and like I had to shut that down. That's a really important boundary. You cannot say those things to me. I will not stay here. This is my role in your home. And it's got to be very clear this cannot happen again. So having that difficult conversation um can sometimes it's necessary setting those boundaries when you're setting boundaries with client. I always say, make sure it's the right time to speak to them. Do you have a few moments? Is this a good time? Those are crucial questions. Having the conversation at the wrong time will get you the wrong answer.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

It's like, you know, be like, Kevin, which is my husband saying, like, can we talk about, you know, this important dining room decision during the Super Bowl? He'd be like, hell no, hell no, not appropriate time, you know. Like, you know, so it's the same thing with clients. Um, you know, saying, you know, to have a moment and then directly addressing it. Don't beat around the bush. Yeah. I think we've really seen that over time with clients setting boundaries or you know, clinicians setting boundaries that beat around the bush. Like, you know, when you said that, well, yeah, and it kind of made me feel, and I was just thinking that, and maybe we should. It's like, no, don't do that. You gotta be straightforward. You gotta be respectful, but use direct language and say, you cannot say this to me. Um, it made me feel uncomfortable. It's not my role here, and we can't have it continue. And if it does continue, I can't be the clinician working with you. So setting those boundaries crucial. Yeah. Yeah. For your own psychological safety. And that's really what it's about as well. You know, psychological safety. So healthy boundaries, so important, as well as boundaries in terms of when you get up. So you go to work. Yeah. You know, when you go to sleep, because you need sleep to function. Um, also in terms of leisure time and what when you're gonna consume, and you know, uh, if you do drink alcohol, no judgment, but like, are you gonna be safe about it and have you know, are you gonna have a driver that's sober? And yeah, yeah, are you considering safety skills? So all those things very crucial.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, a lot of your life uh sets the stage for how you're going to be able to work with others.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yeah. And you have to be strong both physically and mentally to be able to be a phenomenal behavior analyst. You really do recommend having a dog. And dogs help so much. That's that's great. Is variable. Other things that I think can help set healthy boundaries is communicating how you like to be communicated with. Like I like phone calls. Some people only like texts. Like, you know, some people want written emails. Um, so learning the communication styles of others.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Yeah, that is really important. Not only with clients, but co-workers, really everyone that you interact with.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yeah. Yeah. And then I also think not sweating the small stuff, you can really get wrapped up in mistakes when you're taking such massive action towards goals. And ABA is goal driven, right? Yeah. So we're working towards goals, uh, goals set by the parents, goals set by yourself. You, as a behavior analyst, also have tons of professional goals that you need to meet on a monthly basis. Um, you have to do CEUs, you have to uh continue your education, you have to do the paperwork. There's a lot of goals. Um, but I think it's also good to look at what's realistic and what's not and be really honest about that. I've definitely had coworkers that had unhealthy boundaries and drove me mad. Like calling at nine o'clock at night.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Um, and what that shows me is that that employee is having a hard time shutting off their work at the end of the day. They're still thinking about it at nine. So now they're reaching out to you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

And also shutting down clients. I rarely take clients' calls uh after nine o'clock. Uh I I do oversee the practice, so I will take calls up until them or I will follow up on the parent phone calls during the day. But after nine, no, on Sundays, maybe to 12, maybe two, then I just cut it off. Yeah. And those are really important boundaries to say, nope, this is where I'm gonna read and, you know, clean my room and do laundry, like other important factors. So carving that out when we were early on and we were just driving around everywhere before even telehealth, like I would just eat horrible. I would just do drive-throughs. I did too. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't very healthy. I would just drive through because I'd be like, I have 15 minutes. What am I gonna eat? Skittles in a Diet Coke. Like, okay, next. All right. Like, I got 30 minutes. What am I gonna eat for dinner? I'll play a loco. Let's do it. You know, it's like, did you have a hard time with it?

SPEAKER_00 24:32

I did. I did a lot of driving through fast food early on. I feel like I got better with packing good food when I was working as a nurse in the hospital on the floor because you have a 12-hour shift, you get a 30-minute break, usually after about eight hours of work. And that's all you get. And you, you know, if there's an emergency, you got to get back there. So I would pack things that I could eat really quickly, but that were super healthy, like protein dense foods, and I'd really like plan it out. So that helped me, I think, to kind of shift my thinking and how to prepare for the week. Um, but you know, the the allure of drive-through when you're driving around, it's pretty hard, you know, to uh uh keep yourself on a healthy track because that salad doesn't look as good, you know, after you've been driving by Taco Bell all day.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

And time management, it's a part of self-care. People don't realize it, but like planning, you know, you can't accomplish anything without planning. Yeah. Like, yeah, you'll you'll enc you know, you will hit the obstacles and the challenges when you're building anything, but planning is key. Yeah, you know, important part of self-care.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Yeah, makes it easier for you down the line for sure.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

And then I think the biggest part of self-care is community.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Yeah, investing in healthy relationships. Very important.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

And that's one of the things that uh we've learned through Peers, which is the social skills program out of UCLA, um, Elizabeth Loggison and Fred Frankel, uh, science-making friends, just life-changing that research. And, you know, it really talks about meaningful friendships and um yeah, what that looks like uh with people that you have close to you.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, really helpful identifying healthy relationships and what those things look like. Um, and identifying when maybe things aren't as healthy as they could be. I don't know that all of us have really great models in in our life as to what are really healthy friendships, really healthy relationships. So that program was really helpful to, I think, to identify those factors.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yeah. Like even just the role of humor. Look when you are the joke, yeah. You know, um, when that that humor is pinpointed to you, you have really have to look at like, is this a meaningful relationship? And that's important, that's important for self-care, but yeah, sleep, water, good food, time management, having community, coping with stress, setting healthy boundaries, doing it in a direct way, unapologetically, of what you need for psychological safety. Yeah, yeah, and then you know, the leisure skills, the relaxing, then the nature bathing, which we're doing today. Yes. Reese's doing it. She's like, in nature, I'm very relaxed. Yeah, I think it's so important. Yeah, yeah. So that's what it looks like for us. Yeah. And as behavior analysts. Self-care. Self-care. Yeah. But what does it look like for you? Let us know, comment, subscribe, engage, tell us we're wrong, tell us we're right.