Not Your Average Scent

In this episode, Rupal Bhinda joins us to talk shop. Rupal is the founder and owner of Ebb & Flow NYC, an elevated and luxurious aromatherapy, home, and bath & body brand based in NYC. All of their items are developed here! 

We met in the trenches (the markets) and have become true friends and fans of each other's work. We talk about my current pistachio obsession, the process of making a luxuriously scented candle, moving with intention, trusting your own decisions, and starting before you're ready. 

Find Rupal and Ebb & Flow at @ebbandflownyc on IG and at ebbandflownyc.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey, this is Chris from State of Gratitude, and this is Not Your Average Gratitude Podcast. On today's episode, we sat down with Rue from Ebb and Flow, New York City. Ebb and Flow is a candle and home fragrance company based here in the city, and all of their goods are fabricated right here in New York. And in this episode, we talked a lot about pistachios and our love of them. And we also talked about the intention behind creating new products and what it means to put something out into the universe for the first time. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 0:34

I'm good. How are you guys doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Uh, we're just chilling here, beating some bracelets.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

As I can see.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

As we do, as one does on a very wet, snowy, snowy day. Uh I have a puppy. And that puppy likes to bark every once in a while. I don't know if you can hear, but he's definitely howling at something.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

He has homo, he wants to be on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

It's just, it's just, it's always exciting, especially with him, because you know, he is nine months old, and one minute he's barking, the next minute he's shitting, the next minute he's pissing, the next minute he's sleeping. I mean, it happens all within like five seconds of each other.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Puppy vibes.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

You know, there you go. I like your new office, by the way. Your new studio? It's really nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

It's big. The lighting is big.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

It is big. Uh it it it was it was huge when we walked in here. We couldn't even believe how he was.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

When it was empty.

SPEAKER_04 1:40

When it was empty. We should have been like, this is it, our one shot. There you go. Do you like it? We should have done a 70s roller disco night.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Yeah, I didn't even have the I didn't even have the chance to like, I didn't even come and see the place. It was just like Richard just signed the lease. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

No time. I can't even look at it. I was like, we need this spot.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

I even picked up the keys. Everything was so like rushed at that point in time. We were getting ready for the holiday markets.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Um delivery of a hundred and something boxes. Yeah, of inventory. We just didn't really have the time to really process exactly what was going on at the time. And we was we weren't even planning on moving into this space, even in the very beginning. We were gonna move into a space on the second floor.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Half the size. Yeah. Can you imagine that? And then having to take all the boxes up that first delivery, up the stairs. That first delivery you weren't there for.

SPEAKER_04 2:36

Well, the the Brooklyn gods were on your side.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Was it in Boston or somewhere else?

SPEAKER_01 2:40

I was at one of the shops, I think. Yeah, you were so.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

I think you were pretending to be sick that day, Fire Ray.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

I don't know. I just sound about right. I just remember like unload, I just remember getting a phone call at like four o'clock in the morning, and this guy, and he's like, I'm here. And I'm like, You are? Who?

unknown 3:00

What?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

I go invite over. I'm like, I go and I like look out my window and I'm like, what did I do? Who's here?

SPEAKER_04 3:07

You thought you had someone coming, and you're like, did I have someone to come hook up?

SPEAKER_01 3:10

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 3:11

And they have a very weird schedule and they're only available at 4 a.m.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

I was like, this, I don't remember doing this. I don't remember agreeing to this. And then I go and I like look out my window and I'm like, where are you? He's like, I'm I'm right outside your building. And I'm like, I'm looking outside my building and I don't see you out here. And he's like, it's it's uh logistics, like forwarding, you you're you're receiving packages today. And I was like, You're like, oh I am You're in Brooklyn, you're not in Manhattan, you're not outside my apartment, you're outside my office.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

And then you were disappointed because you really thought you were gonna hook up with somebody.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

No, and then I was like, and then I was like, oh shit, I'm like an hour away from there. How am I gonna get there like quickly? And this guy's just like standing outside. I I don't have anybody like ready to like receive this inventory, and I have a dog who I've had for maybe like five days at this point.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

So what did you do?

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Cried, no sooner. Uh just called Kim. Got my stuff together and we and we showed up basically around the same time.

SPEAKER_04 4:22

Uh with one wagon with a broken wheel. It's always a broken wheel.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Yeah, and so then Serena came afterwards, and then uh, or she came as well, and then next thing you knew, we were like unloading these boxes on the side of the street because the guy couldn't get the gate open to do it out of the into the loading dock. And we were just walking those boxes all the way down the sidewalk, sometimes into poles. Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_04 4:50

The the uh joys of being a small business owner.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

I'm sure you can relate to that.

SPEAKER_04 4:55

When when people see the product, I think a lot of times people think there's so much glamour to it, especially your product because it's so visually beautiful, and you know, people use it to relax and to kind of, you know, for for beauty, for ambience, and sometimes how the sausage is made is real rough.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Oh, that's why they're not allowed in my studio. The public is not allowed, they have no idea. They all think it's like this Etsy Q, everything's pink and white. No, it's like hell in there. You're like I'm in cross, yeah. There's a Helma stained sweatshirt, yeah. Exactly. There's holes in socks right now. I'm like just trying to get it out the door. Get it out the door.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

You make everything in the warehouse, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Or um we've moved some of our production over to Long Island because they have bigger warehouse space out there. So um, yeah, that's what we do for holidays. So, like the candle making, it's just big long tables that go from like this end all the way down there, like your studio space, and then basically rows with that, and then we just line everything up and then pour, pour, pour, pour, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

So, for those of you who don't know, uh Ruse Ruse Company, Evanflow, is one of the most exquisite being perfectly honest with you, exquisite candle company. You say candles, fragrances, home fragrance. Home fragrance. Uh like you have the you have the Santal, the Santal leather.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

I know, that's your favorite.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

That's our oh my god, I am obsessed with it. It smells so good. Uh I I like took the home spray. I think it was at Bryant Park, and once I sprayed it once, I was like, no, this is fine.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

I think Richard started the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Oh, I sprayed in uh Bryant Park all the time.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Like before even the show started, you're like, Can I get a spray? Because I need to make my dude smell really good right now.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

It's just it's incredible. It's one of the most incredible sets, and like, but all of them are. I mean, thank you. Even down to like the packaging, like you put us to shame when it comes to packaging. Oh, stop.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

I've seen your black bags with the gold.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Oh, that we copied yourself. You are the inspiration.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

You guys have very comfortable clothing, I will tell you that. I'm rocking right now a state of gratitude sweatshirt and sweatpants, and I can't even tell you. It's like my go-to every day.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Really? Yeah. I like I live in the I live in the sweatpants, and and like I try not to be too monochromatic all the time unless it's black.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

But okay, New Yorker.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Well, I don't know. I feel like if I walk around wearing, I mean, I feel like if I'm walking around wearing the mauve bottoms and the mauve top, I feel like a giant Barney walking around places.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

You look like an ice cream cone. I do when you wear the the mauve and mauve.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yeah, mauvah mauve.

SPEAKER_04 7:40

Yeah, you look like an ice cream cone. I think it's cute though. It is cute, it's nice. Yeah, a lot of chromatic moments. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

I can't wait to write it. I mean, I'm all for it sometimes on people. I've never really been that much of a loud person in general. So like it takes a lot of effort for me to like put something on that's like really loud in general.

SPEAKER_04 8:05

Um so speaking of Santal, I have a question for you, Ro. Um Ro, pardon. Um it seems like every single thing is subject to trends, whether it's not only clothes, but even perfumes and scents and things like that. And obviously Sental is probably one of the trendier ones. So when you are developing your scent profile, are you staying on top of the trends or are you pulling from um maybe whatever is more has a homeopathic benefit? Are you pulling from your culture? Are you pulling from whatever mood you're in that time?

SPEAKER_00 8:45

It depends really on trends, customers, and what they want and um what I want, really. It's more about that. More than anything else. I mean, every now and then I do hit my culture up, you know, like you know, the two American saffron. Like, yeah, let's get some Indian vibes going on in here, you know. But um, overall, Soundtal, I did Soundtal before the famous company made it. Yeah, you know, but they have more marketing and they're own by Estee Lauders, so there it is. You know, I'm small business, so I don't have their kind of income.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Yeah, you know, that's sort of back in it, sort of wallet.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Yeah, exactly. So I mean their marketing is lovely, and I do respect it, but you know, if you want you want the a similar vibe, but like at a affordable price, here I am.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

I think it's I think it smells I think it smells uniquely different and like like amazing in its own right. Like to even put the two, to even try to like compare the two, I feel like would be like an injustice.

SPEAKER_04 9:45

Oh yeah. So what do you think are some of the the scent and fragrance trends that are happening right now?

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Um, bergamot is like huge. And you know what's coming back is plumeria. Oh my god. 1996 Bath and Body Works. Oh my god, we were just kids back then.

SPEAKER_04 10:05

I remember it's so hardcore. Does everyone here have trauma from getting those gift baskets with all the things?

SPEAKER_01 10:10

I never was not privy to these.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Oh, the girls now, the girlies now, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

All I know is that right now my bathroom is filled with geranium.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Oh, that's nice.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

That's a nice scent from who?

SPEAKER_01 10:23

From an A.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Okay, got him.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

I just actually ran out of the body wash that I got from you.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Ah, well, why don't you ask me to bring it? I would have brought it for you.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

I sent you a list. I'm just kidding. Because I have to hide when I buy the stuff from you because But this one here will take it. No, I hide it from you when I buy it. Because you will get mad that I actually paid for it.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Yeah, I do. And I always tell the girls, like, don't let Richard pay for it. He just comes in when I'm not there and he'll be like, I bought, I bought, I bought. And I'm like, dude.

SPEAKER_04 10:59

Yeah, but when when Chris comes, tell the girls to charge him extra. I do. Yeah, specifically. Yeah, just to make up for it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

It's so sweet.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Yeah, you know, I always hear pictures on the wall. Chris comes back.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Overcharge Chris, don't charge Richard. If I walk by and I don't even see you in there, not even bothering. I don't either. Unless I need to buy something.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Oh my god. Yeah, so Plumery's coming back, like all the old school scents are starting to come back. I've never had a bergamot before, but it's been a big ass. So it's like it's a very old school. I love it.

SPEAKER_04 11:32

You know, totally. Do you think that's because so you know, in the olden days we had like the heavy, warm scents, and then in the 80s we had like, you know, kind of fruity light citrus stuff. And then it's like clean girl aesthetic, you know, everything was clean girl, clean girl. Do you think maybe the requests for things like bergamot are an indication that like this whole clean girl aesthetic, we're done, we're moving on, we're ready for things that are much more sexy.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Yeah, I think that's very like Northeast though. Like, I think like New York, especially in New Jersey, they love anything earthy and very dark and like moody and like heavy. Yeah. And like if you go to stress level, yeah, I think so. But it also goes with the flow of like New York City, right? Like everything is difficult. You know, like walking up the subway stairs is annoying, you know. There's always like a dude on the floor.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Like this bead spinner actually does spin, but for some reason I'm choosing to manually spin it around in circles, making it harder than it needs to be.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

See? Which means he needs bergamot stat. Yeah. Yeah, he's someone got this man bergamot.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Is there ever like a scent that you have had to make and you feel like you have to make it all the time, but like you genuinely like do not like it at all.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Patchouli.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

I hate patchouli. And I tell my customers the right to their face, too. But we're like, Do you have a patchouli? And I was like, it's all the way in the corner of the back of there because I hate smelling it. Yeah, you do. I sell it at the fish concert. You can go there. Yeah. It's like we don't live in Massachusetts, you know. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

It's so funny because, like, yeah, there's always like those things that like you make and you're just like, God, I would never want to wear this ever.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

But then you just do it because it's like it's popular amongst a certain group of ladies. And if you don't have it, they get really upset and they're like, Do you have it in the candles? You know, I'm like, no, no, no, no. You get the bar soap and that's it.

SPEAKER_04 13:29

Those certain type of ladies who want patchouli, uh-huh. Do they all are they also into crystals? And do they also possibly have like a lizard tattoo?

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Good questions, but no, they're just very like hippie older women that love patchouli. And they're all from like New Hampshire, Vermont, or Ohio. Like what I have and like Western Mass. Like that's the vibe that I get, you know. Not like saying that, not yeah, I'm sure there's other people.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Every time I think of like patchouli, I think of uh the movie Easy A when she like goes to her friend's parents' house and they live in Ohio, California. Oh yeah, we're gonna have patchouli burgers. Sounds so nasty. All right, so I have a question. We like to do a little segment here where we ask our guests, what is what are we calling it? We're calling it our confession. Ungrateful confession. Do you have an ungrateful confession that you would like to make?

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Um, well, do you yeah. Uh there's a lot, actually, living here, you know. Well, let it out. Oh, okay. Well, you know, we did talk earlier about like airports and you know, subway people and and whatnot, but like on a deeper note, it's I don't know why, but I was just talking to my therapist about it, and it's how I was brought up. And I'm a firstborn in the United States, right? And so my parents came from India and Kenya, and so how they thought they should how they were brought up over there is they should emulate that here. And that was like a no-no, you know. So, and being firstborn, that was not I was like the boy of the family, but they never let me be a girl, you know what I'm saying? So um I wish they were a little bit more giving, you know, like like for example, I want you know, when you have to choose like an instrument to play? I wanted to play the drums. They were like, no, you're going to play the violin and the piano, and you have to take ballet, and then you can see. Yeah, no, they were like, yeah, hardcore. So if I liked even um, you know, back then it was like 80s rock and roll, right? Like Poison and Deaf Leppard and Ozzie Osborne and stuff like that. No. Oh find out, go find out. A little munched in. Um, no, it ended up being classical music. Like I had no choice at 13 years old. Like which 13-year-old really wants listens to classical music all day, you know. So yeah. I think I just put in a like a negative vibe on this. Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 16:16

No, I mean ungrateful is about being exactly grumpy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

I mean the whole point is to realize, I mean, like, I think, I think the reason the point of coming up with like the ungrateful mo the ungrateful confession is kind of just like to show that like we're not these people who can't talk about things that are negative at like at any given point in time. Like we're humans just like anybody else, and like we feel the feels, and like sometimes I want to just like like I don't know. Rant? Yeah, yeah, and just let out all that steam and just like get it off my chest and then move on.

SPEAKER_04 16:49

Yeah. You know, I'm glad you brought that up. I've also been getting a feeling that in this world or this era of like everyone being hyper-therapized and like people now are afraid of any negative emotion. Yeah, and definitely they think that toxic is the same as negative, and that's not the case, obviously. And so any something like a really natural emotion like anger or like frustration.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Or jealousy. Yes, jealousy is a perfect example. I had an argument with somebody about the about the feeling of jealousy, and I was like, and I told I was like, it's a very healthy, normal emotion. Yeah, and he was like, I can't believe you would even say something like that. And I was like, well, to be perfectly honest with you, I stand by it like 1000%. I mean, I think it's very healthy to experience and to feel that emotion. It's not it's not the act of feeling the emotion that's the problem, it's what you do afterwards, it's how you like deal with it, the the follow-through with like feeling the feeling of jealousy. It's like, okay, do you go and then like like shoot somebody over it, or like do you just kind of like process it and then maybe go talk to them about it? 100%.

SPEAKER_04 18:00

Like the emotion is not unhealthy, it's your reaction.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

100%. I remember a therapist once told me you can't ex really appreciate feelings of joy and happiness unless you've been able to experience pain and unhappiness and actually and suffering and actually allowed yourself to experience those emotions.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

That's very that's a very Buddhist uh take on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

It's like, what is it? The whole idea of philosophy is that like uh life is just about suffering, and we just choose our suffering in one way or another, but at the end of the day, we're always suffering in one way, shape, or form.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

It's normalized though, you know?

SPEAKER_01 18:42

What is suffering? But I think I think what's becoming more normalized is this like need to like suppress the suffering and pretend like it doesn't exist. Yeah, and pretend that any that's anybody who who tells who talks about it is toxic.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Do you think that's more of a city lifestyle vibe, or do you think that's everywhere? I think it's generational. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 19:01

I think it's a Gen Z thing. And you know, I love Gen Z. I think they're they've moved the needle far in a lot of ways that were really necessary. But this is one of those aspects, or this is one of those instances where the pendulum has swung the other way and a good intention is now kind of hindering us. Destructive. Yeah, where w we might end up being having a lot of healthy things be repressed because we fear any negative feeling. So that's that's why we're like, come on with the ungrateful confessions, get us here, man.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

I just started noticing my gray hairs coming out of my chin because of a recent development in my household.

SPEAKER_04 19:39

Teddy.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yeah. Puppies will give you gray hairs. Oh, let me tell you. Oof. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 19:48

Yeah, but you also get hit on so much more when you have a puppy, especially in the city. Like, you wanna you wanna pick people up? Go get yourself a fluffy little teddy. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Oh yeah, until he sees another dog.

SPEAKER_04 19:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Does he get jealous?

SPEAKER_01 20:01

He gets something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:06

Um so are we all doing ungrateful confessions or is this just yeah, no, we're going around the room. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

You wanna shoot, you wanna go in?

SPEAKER_04 20:14

Um, yeah. I don't like how airports now you have to order through the screen. Like there's a so I went, I have a tradition where I love to I love it doesn't matter, but I went in and there was someone working behind the bar and I wanted to order some fries, and they were right in front of me, and I had to create an account to order on the iPad. And I was like, but I just said that I want fries, you know it. Can't you just can I just hand you cash with fries? He said, No. And he's still there and he watched me like really frustrated, being like sending a code to a different email address. And I had to go, and finally I just was like, I don't, I don't want the fries. So um yeah, I think that's my ungrateful confession. I'm becoming becoming my dad. Becoming grumpy screens.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

I feel that. I feel that. Which airport is that? LaGuardia?

SPEAKER_04 21:20

Uh no, I don't think it was a New York airport. Yeah, it's all of them.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

They're all becoming like that.

SPEAKER_04 21:28

Yeah. So like you can't just have a human-to-human moment. Um I can't speak to this person and he can't respond back. We have to have this middleman of the machine in order for a very simple transaction.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

It's weird.

SPEAKER_04 21:41

It is weird. Yeah. So that's mine. Old boomer over here.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Speaking of being a boomer, uh mine is uh this is, I think, a lot of people feel has been feeling this, but I feel bad for feeling this way because of the fact that it was a barista for. so long just going to places where I have to pick the f item, pay for the item, and then they turn it around and oh would you like to tip? Like at the gym.

SPEAKER_04 22:15

I'll tipping at the gym?

SPEAKER_02 22:17

I I go and get a bottle of water, pay for it. They turn the machine around and it's like would you like to tip? Oof. And I don't mind tipping for things that people actually make. Make but whenever I do all the work I grab the item and you just ring it up it could just be self-serve at this point.

SPEAKER_04 22:40

Yeah. At that point then we should be tipping our bodega guys for making those bomb ass breakfast sandwiches. We don't tip him.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

We don't you know if you're Oh no the bodega tips too.

SPEAKER_04 22:49

No now they're doing it. Okay. Yeah if you're in a fitting room and someone's running your size back and forth bringing a different do we tip them? I mean what are the rules now?

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Yeah it's all over yeah then that means the clothes has to be less expensive true yeah and I feel bad because like I said I was a barista. You were yeah where in Austin after I got sober and I worked at juiceland as well. Ooh and so I get it I relied on those tips and you did something for them you made people's drinks well I took the order and someone else made the drinks but still it's a it's a team effort.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

It was a team effort but just whenever you know I used to work at a restaurant and like I used to have to make coffee drinks all the time because I didn't really know how to make coffee drinks all the time. So like any time somebody would order like a macchiato a latte or cappuccino you got the same thing. You had the same thing every time it was just like espresso and a little bit of milk.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

And basically that's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Yeah nobody can tell the difference no yeah especially macchiatos whenever or cartados I don't know what a macchiato is that macchiato? Macchiato is just foam. Yeah it's just a little bit of foam. No that's why if you go into Starbucks and order a macchiato and then you go to traditional coffee shop it's very two different drinks.

SPEAKER_04 24:19

What does Starbucks do?

SPEAKER_02 24:20

They put like maple syrup on it? Where they put the latte they make a latte but they put the shot in last I think. Wait but for a macchiato what do they make that's what they do it's a traditional but they put the shot in last. So they make they steam the milk like you would get for a traditional latte and then put in the shot instead of the other way around they put the shot in first then the milk on top. That's weird like what's the difference like also a a cappuccino and a cortado no I'm sorry a cortado and a cortado's two ounces of white uh cortado is two shots of espresso and two ounces of steam milk that's not steamed as hot as a lot as hot as a lot.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

You're very well versed.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Okay then I think we can we can consolidate this no you're not adverse neither and a flat white is like almost identical with just like the the foam is less dense we can consolidate that we can just pick one I would like a uh a white flat skim milk no foam espresso decaf half regular espresso it's giving housewives right now wait you don't have you don't have flat white start over do you watch the housewives oh my god Beverly Hills all day love oh my god is your matcha ceremonial green Rachel's uh response to that was fabulous she's like what thank god well what was it that you're saying Kim that awe I didn't find that question to be that crazy because anyone that you should matcha for drinking needs to be ceremonial for cooking is culinary grade so that's actually a pretty good question to ask but it but there's there should be no reason why a matcha would be getting would be served at a coffee shop if it wasn't ceremonial if it wasn't ceremonial like there would like they weren't making they weren't baking muffins with it and then decided to like make a latte out of it.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

She's just trying to show off she was yeah she was just trying to be a like a pretentious like yeah yeah actually was watching uh old episodes of the Rachel Zell project last year I love Rachel Zell so different and then she's in her apartment versus her big mansion now yeah it's crazy I still love her though she's still got the same whole vibe and to die everything's to die it does she's still I love it that's but nanas I think she's a good ad to that show she's a great she's she's exactly what that show needed she has a connection to all of them she's like she's wonderful she's good she's good she's good did you see the episode where are you caught up yeah you see the episode where they were at Surf Lodge I'm not quite there yet I'm not quite there yet well they they filmed they filmed there and apparently the Summerhouse crew goes there a lot but they're not allowed to film she's but because she's friends she's actually friends with the owner oh that's why they were allowed to film there oh so she's actually is connected she's needs to be on the show like it's a good addition interesting do you think Amanda's gonna come back no she's like really I kind of like want her back a little bit just to see how she rolls in the second season.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Yeah well once you I feel like once you see yourself on TV for the first time you realize you're like whoa like I was really like this or I was really like that or then you have like the people like Teresa who are probably just like I just got a bad edit like I'm not that mean or you know I'm not that delusional.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

Well it's I want to say you need a character like Amanda so that way older characters like Sutton who was be hated by everyone is now loved. Yeah so they'll bring someone on who is worse than Amanda just to like bring the group together.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Yeah. Sutton is so different now like it's a whole nother side. Yeah but I feel like it was always there but she did she acting different show.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Amanda that's causing arguments with everyone else like Dorite. Yeah so Sutton's not in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Amanda's crazy I think she's full of head she's the money queen the money what Scamanda there was a show called Scamanda.

SPEAKER_04 28:54

Oh really? Yeah I don't know if it was her but it was about um guys it was so good. So you know how some at some point during the pandemic like America kind of maxed out with true crime and we were like ooh this is getting a little crazy I need a break and then they started doing all these like con man shows you know Tinder swindler bad vegan I love love love that genre so there was one called Amanda did anybody see it by any chance guys this woman she's kind of like you know like a nerdy white ultra Christian Bible thumper in wherever she lives and she is a huge member of this church right like one of these like mega churches and she tells everybody that she has cancer and for years she was getting money from them having them furnish her house going on trips she didn't have cancer.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Wait is this the woman who was in from Australia? No as big influence.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

Oh okay she was American but she was standing on the stage of this church talking about facing her own mortality and crying and like being a guest speaker and blogging about it.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

And she I mean my God she was good the blog she probably got she she probably was crying up there because she realized that she was so deep in it and she didn't know how to get out.

SPEAKER_04 30:22

No she's a total sociopath the blog she was staging pictures of her with like in a hospital extremely ill and uh she ended up getting bustered for fraud and had to go to prison but it was years the money she extorted Scamanda. That must that sound stressful like for her like dancing haul yeah she probably just could have made more money if she took all that time and effort and applied it to a real job.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Exactly I have an ungrateful I'm at Starbucks for giving up on pistachio way too early. How many pistachio uh Dubai Dubai chocolate botas have I had on the cruise thought that existed oh it's a it was a recent addition and then they're like oh it pistachio season is over I'm like but you just came out with this amazing drink you can't quit now so give me at least another three months of this and then they brought it back like like four days later and I was like why would you even do that to me in the first place? Like rude. It was rude do they not know who you are like I was literally on the app like searching every Starbucks in like the one mile radius trying to figure out which Starbucks still had pistachio.

SPEAKER_04 31:36

Oh my god so there's a there's some controversy controversy controversy around the pistachio scene right now did anybody I've got another article but I haven't seen this I'm not up to date on pistachio scandal with the dude I mean our retreat there's a CD underbelly lying everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Well our retreat used to be hosted uh in California and the when you would go to the retreat site you actually had to drive through pistachio fields for hours not hours for like 20 minutes yes that that's basically what this is about it's basically um the United States has recently they've always been competing with Iran for pistachio production and for some reason it's like a it's like a dick size contest by way of pistachios.

SPEAKER_04 32:20

And it's very expensive so it oscillates back and forth but but Iran you know kind of took the cake for a while and recently the United States was like absolutely not not on our watch we're taking pistachios back while we're there a huge huge huge internal like push to be the leaders in in pistachio production. So we're talking like marketing campaigns kind of like how after the back in the day the got milk thing, got milk ads were to just drive consumption of it. And so now California produces more pistachios than anybody in the world. So not only does the United States produce more pistachios than Iran but they're all being produced in California. And they take a ton of water to make oh yeah yeah so this is really a pissing contest that that um California is bearing the burden of which is why they have a drought yeah I mean it's not great.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Because almonds are made over there as well. Oh yeah I mean I will say that they make some really good pistachios and you go to this little store like right at the bottom of the mountain and like they dip the pistachios unsheled in like 30 different flavors.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

It's like yeah yeah you guys know a lot about pistachios well we were literally like hanging out with them all the time um go ahead and ask what what bracelet I'm making right now. What bracelet are you making right now? Pistachio What drives you what drives me well you know how I was touching um a note on how my family brought me up and all that kind of stuff and everything that I did was like wrong wrong wrong because they wanted X, Y, and C and I gave them A B C. So that drives me to kind of prove to them that I can do ABC and still make it fabulous in my own way and you know just make it in like New York and you know put in their face.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

I mean I feel like I feel like I feel like home fragrances and like you know scents and the things that the things that you create and the things that you produce like you know can be feminine you know can be soft can be you know it's not for everyone yeah for everyone you know um so why would they have such an aversion to because it's it's creative.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

It's creative got to be a bit of you know the lawyer doctor yeah basically lawyer they want a professional professional career yeah I see what you mean I'm like I don't understand why yeah yeah yeah no I'm like the black sheep like all my all my family members all my cousins they all went to like Warden Yale like they all went to the Ivies right and then there's me going to like hi UMass Amherst hi in like State School Patrouilland patrouilland exactly are they supportive of you now um most yeah my mom is definitely yeah she's supportive yeah I mean and your dad is uh a no because he's like I'm just hung into candles he started supporting me a little bit more later after I got married because then he's like okay she's safe she's good you know like old school mentality of like you know the man's gonna take care of my daughter like that whole thing instead I'm like I don't need that's it's just an addition and a wonderful addition but still you know I don't it's like come on dad you know you can still wear a dress and still you know do everything else what everyone else does you know for sure so it's all good.

SPEAKER_04 35:46

Were you born here?

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Yeah I was born in Long Island. Ah okay yeah yeah yeah my mom was born in India my dad was born in Kenya okay and but where in Long Island where are you born? Um Huntington. Oh okay cool yeah yeah do you know Long Island well?

SPEAKER_04 35:59

Yeah I was born in Long Island where uh the middle the middle so is Huntington it's like in the middle right yeah well Huntington's like a I guess North Shore yeah um but Smithtown Hopk okay yeah so like literally the middle that's like equ equenter north south equals what high school did you go to Hopak High School okay see there you go nice um do you miss it no neither do I do do are there many people that you talk to that are like oh I miss high school no unless there's unless they peaked in high school then maybe yeah yeah I don't talk to really anyone from high school except my best friend that's it I knew you were from Long Island from your accent oh really I was like from the beginning yep oh okay I knew that's funny I try to keep it as neutral as possible but when you're like I don't know sometimes I guess it just comes out oh let it let it fly let it fly and forget about it I tried really hard to get rid of mine for a while and now I'm like I can't I can't I can you say Long Island right like it's like one word Long Island. There are some words I simply can't even say like D-R-A-W-E-R I'm like draw you say it that way draw draw I can't pronounce it the way it simply can't come out I'm like D-R-A-W e R draw what do you say draw draw draw are you saying draw a draw like a draw drawer drawer there it is that's the one I cannot say that again drawer yeah that's impossible for me that'll never happen a drawer I can't even my mouth my mouth won't make it go that way there's some words I can't say like I'm not even gonna try but if somebody's from Vietnam I can't say what do they the type of food?

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Vietnamese I can't say that interesting or like Chris's interpretation my mouth won't go that way is your tongue receding going backwards when you say draw like draw uh my mouth has to go like up and over before it goes back down again. So funny it's like a weird like motion of the of the verb word you know I'd need a speech pathologist to work on with me for a decade to say that word. I think it's because I've like lived in the Northeast for such a long time and then like I also like was in Miami for a long time and I grew up in Orlando it's like I was around so many different people from so many different places that like I like Dorite the ancient you're from Connecticut um what tell us about your candle making process is it a traditional process are all processes at this point kind of similar they're all similar.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

Okay yeah so how do you make a candle? So basically there's like you get the soy wax they come in like little flakes and um you get like big tubs basically about this big and then you just heat them and put the scent in mix it all up and then you basically we just have jugs that and we pour it in and then that's it. But the wick obviously has to go in you center the wick you put the little clothing pin on it to kind of hold it the pin like in the center and then pour the wax and let it cool and then clean it all up and out the door.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

I have a two part question. Yeah A what is your process for selecting a new scent? And do you do it often and but then and then B something else?

SPEAKER_00 39:26

The process of well it depends on sometimes like I have some scents that I haven't put out yet and I've had them for like five years. Can you tell us what they're gonna be can you hand at one?

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Not yet.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

One of the screen it's one of them is actually how did you know it's actually coming out today.

SPEAKER_03 39:43

Really?

SPEAKER_00 39:48

It depends um if I I have some that I'm like okay it's not ready for the public yet like they're not vibing with it yet you know then I do something that's what the customer wants you know it's like a big ask of something so I will put that out there and then it's like for a long time I hate like I'm not a vanilla person. I don't mind it but it's not me. But then like five years in I was like do you have a vanilla do you have a vanilla do you have a vanilla I'm like okay got it.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

So if I keep getting asked something then I'll go ahead and make it I hear I feel that that's like the same with me like people kept asking for sets. Yeah and I didn't want to make sets for the longest time because I made shorts once and that did not go over very well and so I was like I'm not doing I'm not doing it I'm not doing it and eventually enough people asked and I was like fuck it yeah just let's just do it and then we found the right people to do it with then once you once we found the right people to do it with and then it was a lot easier. It's like obviously that an amazing process. People kept asking for zips. And then once you make them nobody wants them.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

I know right yeah a lot of people like can you make this hotel scent and I'm like which hotel they're like it's the one in like you know the Mediterranean it's like that big fan and I'm like what's the name like give me the what one would smell like they'll you figure it out I'm like how am I gonna get it but it's like one person oh yeah but I'm like where am I how am I like first of all how am I gonna get it and then like and who are you and is there a big asking you should have spent like here's your Tatziki candle exactly you start featuring it.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

It's like why don't you just tell me you're not interested in buying anything like why should you go out with this elaborate like like storybook about like what you really want when in reality it's like they just get excited you know they want to like share their own like story and their own like little and then you send them an invoice and then the stories of the interesting story ends very quickly oh my god what's your process and the type of like production for this I never really had a process my process was just like super erratic in a lot of ways uh it would be like oh we need something uh throw it together and just like send it off I think that this year like because of the holiday markets I think we have started shifting our energy and focus on uh like my qu my other question to you is have you started like have you started stocking up supply for the holidays? And when do you start doing that?

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Like we I'm redesigning some bottles right now so that's a process and of course what I want is like not really achievable so we're trying to work around it. And um but like April May we kind of start like ordering like the supplies and by June July is like when production really starts especially for the like like the bar soaps that's like a long process. It takes forever and um wrapping them forget it. Like we literally like the when I used to when when I used to really drink we would have like bottles of wine and the girls and I would just sit there and like wrap soaps and just make a big pile like in the middle of the table just like soaps all day for like a month straight. And then by like five o'clock we're like open the bottle we got two more hours. You know so it's like all right so yeah it's a it's a long process yeah what about you guys are you guys so this year so this year this year we've been running with the same sort of campaign for a couple years now you know the hoodie really popular hoodie that we have spread gratitude always this year we decided that we would well this year I decided I wanted to do something maybe a little bit different.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

And so I actually like I actually drafted like a full blown like campaign strategy and like wrote out like a whole I can't really disclose too much about that quite yet isn't quite done it's not all like completely set in stone and so I don't want to like give away too many details uh about what's kinda coming but it is really exciting because we are using some we're using something that's different. We're using something that's fresh something that like we've never put on anything before. Um so it's exciting and like we're really leaning more into like silhouettes and like like actual like functional garments and and then like using like our branding to like make it like more like a sen how do you say that accentuate accentuate accentuate accentuate like the garment itself as opposed to like like having the garment be led by you know like let it work together like let it work together and like actually like so you can have like a almost like a clothing line like a line like a collection it's a collection it's a collection for better for exciting yeah it is pretty cool so like this so like when we finished when we wrapped up the holidays uh we took a minute away and like it was there that like I wrote this like full blown like manifesto okay and like it's like a it's like a really long manifesto and it just kind of like it like I guess you could say like it really just like set the tone for like what it was about. Yeah. Like this is what this is how we're feeling this is how we want the brand to like move forward this is who we are like like take it use it for copy use it for like advertising use it for whatever you want um but that was like the overarching theme you know for the year. Yeah um and then just kind of like drew the collection based off of like what that said.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Exciting it was cool.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

It was it's like it was it for the first time it was like it was a it was a process you know yeah well it was a cool little process and now we just started like I just I just showed all the pieces to our uh to our manufacturers and now they're gonna like come back and tell us like what tide tables look like and things like that. So okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

I can't wait to see the campaign. I can't wait to see the clothes see the thing we need to come up with a gratitude candle. We should yeah I like I want I what would it be what would it smell like I will not be making that for you okay it'd be like patchouli bergamot and centile I would literally third party hire that out I'd be like you know what you guys make it because you're gonna smell like it all day it's gonna be in your car your clothes like all of it so you do the patchouli uh bar soap right yeah patchouli bar so but we only do during like third and fourth quarter like that's it we have leftovers I put it like in the back in the corner underneath all the boxes and I'm just like if if someone wants it great but I don't want to touch it I don't want to smell it. Because I smell like it after it's not cool you know so yeah I'm excited for this like new so it's like you know how you were talking about jealousy before yeah that's me with you. I'm like this man why you guys have grown con so fast you went from like zero to a hundred in like a year it's like fabulous.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Yeah I feel like my bank account went from a hundred to zero.

SPEAKER_04 46:49

I think I know why I've haven't had too long to observe Chris but I have to say he is like an action man like an action person. Yeah there if he I will talk about something for years never do it. If he says something's going to happen it's gonna actually start happening now.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

Right.

SPEAKER_04 47:10

You know so like he's just constantly constantly taking action and a big thinker and so if you are action minded and a big thinker when those two are combined then stuff you know stuff just happens. That's awesome. You know like he always has a lot of pots on the stove but if you have enough pots on the stove eventually some are gonna boil.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

Yeah totally I mean I think if you like I think a lot of times especially when it comes to like entrepreneurship I know that it's like a you can obviously relate like it's it's a scary thing to do especially when you have employees because once you have employees it takes a completely different form. No longer are you like you're responsible for the livelihood of other people. Yeah and that is like the pre that is the it's the scary it's the scariest thing that you could possibly do because you lie awake at night just like wondering how the fuck am I going to do this? I don't know how this how point A is going to get to point B but like at the end of the day like because of maybe whatever who the types of people that we are like they we get there. We do end up getting from point A to point B. But it's scary. It is scary and I think that like for me at least like I'm just like just do it.

SPEAKER_04 48:15

Yeah just do it put up on the website see what happens that's how successful people are made. Whenever you read books about successful people they talk about just kind of in a way sometimes putting on blinders and just taking action. Yeah and there's only one direction and it's forward. Yeah and that along with being very decisive. You know like you have to trust your decisions and trust and know that some of them might be wrong but you can course correct after right yeah what was and so like you decide fast yeah and that's what is what helps with the action.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

I like I mean I would rather like I would rather put something up get it out and get it on get it on its way and then figure out like what the mistakes are and fix them. Yeah rather than like obsess over what the possibilities are of the mistakes. Because then it gets lost the idea just gets lost yeah it gets lost and it never makes it pass like past past your head.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Yeah exactly past the RD phase yeah and then you're like you're like oh yeah I need 10 million dollars to start a clothing brand I'm like sweet I started with a thousand bucks actually you don't need anything to start a clothing brand so glad you said that because I think who whoever listens to this I'm gonna make them listen to what you just said because that it like I have a lot of friends in the textile world because I used to work in the fashion industry for like ever and they're still like I want to do my own brand and I they've been talking about it for like 15 years and they're my age you know what I'm saying? So 50 almost 50. So like that. So I'm glad that thousand bucks and thousand dollars you know actually sorry twelve hundred dollars in a stimulus check well they're they're literally saying oh I need like you know like 20 grand 30 grand I've got to get the website I gotta do that and I'm like don't even bother with all of that you don't even start just get it in front of people.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

You don't even know people are gonna like it.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Yeah exactly make five pieces call it a day get it out in the front see who likes what and then go from there from there. Yeah and then you build accordingly can you imagine spending $20,000 on something that was shit and then we like it sound so Kendra Scott used to take her jewelry door to door herself she still does yeah so kudos to you guys that's really great and now look at you in your big fancy studio so what advice would you give to female small business owners um any small business owners who are um maybe yeah maybe trying to do something creative in a in an AI world and definitely of course to any other women of color well AI worlds I don't I'm still like learning it very slowly. It's so exciting it is exciting and I do play around with it like the meta AI and it's kind of cool. I really really enjoyed it it's a lot of fun yeah because once you're in bed and you're like holy shit like that's just moved like what you know but for advice like what I was talking about before it's just don't worry about like $50,000 like start with like what Chris said like $1,000 and it could be for everyone you know just whatever money you've got use it for a small little portion of inventory and then get out there. It could be literally like I started off at street markets in New York City like street markets like the fairs where you know like the guy next to me the first guy that was next or the first show that I did like that the guy was next to me was selling socks.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

You know the sock guy yeah what put you in the industry that you're in right now like what was the driving like motivating factor to do did you not see my ad on Instagram?

SPEAKER_00 51:50

I'm just kidding I'm kidding I'm kidding um I like I said I was working in textiles for a long time and so I did um a lot of like runway designers and all their textiles for them and so one day I was like you know for presents you do Dean and Daluca when it existed and all these other big items and and so like um and then I was like screw it they don't care because all the other vendors are doing the same thing. So I was like alright screw it I'm not gonna spend that much money on you. So I just did candles and a few bar stuff made it personal to them and they freaking loved it. They thought that was more special than a Dean and DeLuca gift set. So I was like cool and then that's and then this one designer I can't mention his name but he was I did his first collection and now he's uber famous and he's the one that made me launch Ebbon Flow. And so I within four weeks we launched it just like I was just like I got this I'm gonna do it this way we literally sat at the table and it the table was like half the size of this table was like probably like four feet long and we sat there with a bar soap and then I was like well I wear all black all the time so let's just wrap it in black. That was a given and then we're like how do we make it pop and then I had something from Michael's from back in the day in my craft box. Oh my gosh so I brought all that shit with me and then we're just playing with it and then we put the flour on it and I was like that's it and then that was it. That's how and then we won for best packaging at her packaging is incredible.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

It's so beautiful like the like the the the dried flowers that you put right on the outside and just like sits I use the boxes as decoration like in my apartment because it's so they're so sexy they're so moody yeah that's nice. No I have them literally all over like empty boxes because I've already burned all the candles. Tell me more no just kidding no I appreciate that thing like it's it I think that like I think that there's what is it like give credit where credit is due and uh that's definitely you have mastered that craft and like you've done it so exquisitely and like so like it's so thoughtful. It's intentional you know um and you know there's so much that you do and I think that's one of the main reasons why I wanted to bring you on this on this you know into this conversation was because of the fact that like a lot of the things we wanted to talk about and a lot of things that we do is about living with intention and like living in that like gratitude and living with the idea that like we're not just like putting things out there. Yeah we're doing it in a in a methodical way like it's thoughtful. Yeah we put things here we put things there because this is how like we feel like it should be for you know whatever reason that might be and and yeah you are that you're you're that same person that I am but you just do a different thing.

SPEAKER_00 54:32

So yeah I think we're very similar like once we have like an idea we run with it. Just run with it yeah for the most part I would say I mean sometimes my ideas are ridiculous and I'm like oh that's gonna cost 50 grand okay let's you know not do that right now I have my ideas and then they tell me that like it's gonna cost something or that I'm gonna have to do something and I'm like so just do it.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

Just do it. And they're like well you have to pay us for it first and I'm like why I'll give you the money just start oh my god is it that big of a deal if I pay you in 2038 no not like that but I'm like I'm like you'll get it by the time you're done I'm like just start working on it.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

Wait a minute yeah yeah seriously I don't know do you guys do any other shows besides New York and Boston during holiday? Not yet. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

We're trying we have a couple applications out uh if anybody in actually we probably shouldn't even say yeah um if we live in another city and you would love for us to come hang out at your holiday market to us on Instagram and uh maybe we'll talk. Yeah yeah we're constantly looking to expand uh into new markets and to grow and spread the gratitude as many in as many markets as we can I mean I think that like there's just so much between both of our brands I mean I think that there's just like so much that can go into like the holidays with it. I mean like gratitude Christmas gratitude Thanksgiving like birthdays. It's just such a it's a great tie-in and uh and I think it's a space that like we should and kind of need to be in uh it's kind of be that that reminder and to also provide like a safe space for people you know who might be feeling some kind of way during the holidays um so being you know one and then the other at the same time is is important. So the more places that we can be in the better.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

Yeah I'll definitely tell you guys later um more about other shows on the West Coast I feel like you guys would fit in there. You're doing West Coast not I've done it. I have not this year but yeah maybe next year I'll I'll hit hit that back yeah but um I'll do LA yeah I feel like LA would be really good and I think um San Francisco yeah yeah and maybe southern California you want to tell us where we can find you um okay you go on our website at ebbinflownyc.com and our handle is at ebb and flow nyc on social. That's us and then holiday markets you'll see it on IG all day yeah so you're in uh like tentatively speaking we we both do uh Bryant Park and Union Square for the holidays here in New York City and then other places you'll have to catch us on our socials to figure out where we are definitely always the Hamptons at the end of August in Bridgehampton um and then I do Devon Pennsylvania in May as well.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

That's cool. Yeah and I thank you guys so much for joining us uh thank you Rue thanks it was a real pleasure and uh I look forward to seeing you soon and seeing what other amazing beautiful things you have coming out.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

So for you guys I'm so excited to see the new line I really am because I'm hardcore I'm like I'm getting the mauve set and then I have the pistachio set right pistachio or sage what do you guys call it we have the pistachio from last season. Oh okay got it and then uh you have last season black I have last season on it's vintage getting uh Rachel's own right here uh uh so yeah thanks for having me you guys thank you for thank you all right signing out