Not Your Average Designer

Keith Lissner joins us for episode 3

Keith is a classically trained fashion designer, self-taught digital artist, and lifelong art lover whose career spans nearly three decades at the highest levels of American fashion. 

After formative roles at Ralph Lauren and Perry Ellis, he spent nearly fourteen years as Executive Vice President of Design at Vera Wang before departing in early 2025 to pursue new frontiers, much of which can be seen on his Instagram @keithlissner

We explore where Keith's love of fashion started, how he's serving his community now through the content he makes, and how it's all aligned with his purpose. So much of what he has now, he credits to his sobriety. 

We also talk about the difference between dog walking in Bushwick and Manhattan, why The Great British Bakeoff is the best reality show, and share a few of our own ungrateful confessions. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:04

This is not another gratitude podcast. How are you doing? We have Keith here with us today. We also are joined by a couple other people from our State of Gratitude family. And we're gonna be beating bracelets today, right?

SPEAKER_03 0:18

Ai.

SPEAKER_05 0:20

You're gonna be great. You're gonna be thrilled.

SPEAKER_06 0:22

Well, you're gonna watch me do something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Beads of sweat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 0:26

Literally. I mean, the first time that I beaded a bracelet, I literally didn't know that these little beads. So we have in front of us like bead spinners, and basically we put the beads inside of the bead spinner, it spins around in circles, and then we kind of catch the beads onto a thread using uh a needle. And I didn't know that these things existed, so I actually just poured a bunch of beads on a table and just picked them up one by one.

SPEAKER_05 0:50

That's what I thought you were gonna have us do today, and I was like really freaked out. When I saw this, it was like a big relief.

SPEAKER_06 0:57

Oh yeah, no, it definitely makes the process a lot easier for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

He had the patience of a monk.

SPEAKER_06 1:01

Uh-huh. Must no.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Yeah, I mean to do that by to do it like that?

SPEAKER_06 1:05

I was like, I was like, I don't even know how much to charge for this bracelet. I mean, it took me four days to make it. I was like, if I if it took me four days to make this, eight hours a day for four days, I'm like, okay, that's 32 hours. If my time is $100 an hour, then that's $30,200. Plus plus supplies.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Yeah, tame out, take out a home equity line of credit on your house to buy the bracelet.

SPEAKER_06 1:28

Seriously. Oh, but yeah, fortunately enough, it doesn't take that much time because we have these beautiful bead spinners in front of us, and we can actually just put the beads into the bead spinner, and then we can turn it on, it's gonna rotate in circles for you, and then you just kind of like collect beads as you go. Like use the needle kind of like as a like, I don't know, you glide across the top of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

And everybody likes the pos the shape of their needle a different way. It's kind of like ballet shoes. You know how each ballerina like can never you know has a very particular shape that they want.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Um, like I just do mine with a slight hook, like that, but some people like it to be kind of like.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

I like a little bit more of an L hand.

SPEAKER_06 2:06

I like an L shape.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:08

So Well, we'll find out. Yeah, exactly. Go ahead and turn on that the bottom switch. Are you right-handed or left-handed? I'm right-handed. You're right-handed. So you want to uh you want it to spin counterclockwise. Okay. And you want it to go really slow. For obvious reasons.

SPEAKER_05 2:29

So that they don't all go flying.

SPEAKER_06 2:32

Yeah. Essentially. Is this too slow? No. I'll go a little slower. Oh, okay. I mean you actually you know what?

SPEAKER_03 2:39

Can I go clockwise?

SPEAKER_05 2:41

No. You just want me to go for it so that everybody so that the beads all go flying.

SPEAKER_06 2:50

Alright, here it goes. Is this is the thread, is the needle connected to a thread? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 2:56

Yeah, we already set it up for him.

SPEAKER_06 2:58

Oh, you're lucky.

SPEAKER_05 3:00

And I've actually already done it once, but you know. I do need to wear my glasses. I cannot do this without my glasses on. Sorry, guys. No problem.

SPEAKER_06 3:08

Unfortunately for you, a lot of uh people are not going to be watching the visual version of this podcast. They'll probably only be listening to it. So unless you told them that you were wearing glasses, which you just did, these people probably would never even know. No. Well, these beads are probably the smallest bees that you can buy, like on the market. They're like literally the smallest bees that you can buy on the market.

SPEAKER_05 3:31

Yeah, they're teeny tiny. That's why I was panicked when I thought I had to put them on one by one.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Let me see your glasses. Oh, they're fantastic. Now you now you you just look like you're in Weezer. Yeah. That's cool.

SPEAKER_05 3:44

Were you from? I am from Chicago. I'm from a suburb of Chicago called Highland Park.

SPEAKER_06 3:50

Okay. In Illinois. I think I drove through it one time.

SPEAKER_05 3:56

Were you looking for kids to drive through? Ten years ago asking him to be in the podcast? Oh no. I got you guys. I just dumped all the beads.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

It's all right, muzzle time.

SPEAKER_05 4:06

Oh lord. Okay, sorry. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. No, please spill the beads. Keep spilling.

unknown 4:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:12

So what were you doing driving through Highland Park?

SPEAKER_06 4:14

I was actually driving from Minnesota to Chicago. And I think I drove through like Milwaukee.

SPEAKER_05 4:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:24

And then Highland Park. Well, Milwaukee and Highland Park are nowhere near each other. But is is Highland Park like on the north side of Chicago? It is. So I would have driven through it to get to Chicago, wouldn't I? Yeah, if you were driving from Milwaukee to Chicago. Oh yeah, then definitely. I mean, I don't know if you would have driven, maybe you would have driven past it through it, like if you were on the highway.

SPEAKER_06 4:47

I got to Chicago during like rush hour or during to that area during rush hours, so I think it had me just take like all local streets.

SPEAKER_05 4:53

Oh, okay. But yeah, I was like Island Park is a very pretty place. It was a wonderful place to grow up. Chicago is amazing.

SPEAKER_06 5:00

Yeah, it's like it's such a beautiful city.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

I I used to uh work for the company that produces Lollapalooza. Uh-huh. So I spent many lalas in Chicago. And it was my favorite time of year to be there.

SPEAKER_06 5:14

I lived in Chicago in the months of July to October. Where did you live? I lived in Uptown. Uptown? Yes.

SPEAKER_05 5:24

What is Uptown?

SPEAKER_06 5:25

It's a neighborhood.

unknown 5:26

I've never heard of it.

SPEAKER_06 5:28

Uptown? No, not Bucktown. Uptown. Uptown. Yeah, it is. Where is it? Right by Up. It's literally up in town. Uh my address was 5009 Sheridan Avenue. Um I was by south of I was like south of Andersonville.

SPEAKER_05 5:47

Is that by Sheridan Avenue or Sheridan Road?

SPEAKER_06 5:49

Sheridan Road. Yes. Okay. I was south of Andersonville and north of like Boystown. Okay. Is that by Wrigley? It's north of Wrigley. It's like there's the Aragon Theater, Aragon Ball Ballroom. Yeah. Is that does that ring a bell? Uh kinda. Like if there's like a big concert venue. Yeah. Like up there. Indoors. Um, I was walking distance to that place, and apparently like it was famous. Allegedly.

SPEAKER_05 6:20

I don't actually spend I did live in Chicago for about uh two years, but that was the extent of it.

unknown 6:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 6:29

I was a hot mess express while I was there, so I didn't really get to enjoy really the fruits of Chicago.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Maybe you enjoyed it a little too much.

SPEAKER_06 6:35

I I think that was the thing. I never left my apartment really. Um, and then my parents came up to Chicago and like literally yanked me out of Chicago and sent me to rehab. Yeah. So good times. Well, whatever gets you there, gets you there. Exactly. Right. It was the beginning of a beautiful journey, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:53

So after Chicago, where did you end up in New York or?

SPEAKER_05 6:56

I did. Well, I went to school in London at the London College of Fashion. Okay. And um, and then oh, I did the thing I wasn't supposed to do. Which is what the bead isn't done.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

That's okay. I'll just put it back on.

SPEAKER_05 7:09

Um yeah, so I went to school in the at the London College of Fashion, and then I moved back to Chicago because as wonderful as the London College of Fashion was, I didn't feel like I had enough of uh technical knowledge of fashion like that I figured would be necessary here in the States. So I went to a small technical school for fashion, which doesn't exist anymore um in Chicago. And um and then I moved to New York in I moved to New York uh my move-in date was October 1st, 2001.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Oh my gosh. Okay, do you do you remember your first address?

SPEAKER_05 7:50

Uh yes, I do.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Do you want to say it?

SPEAKER_05 7:54

My first address was I think it was 1400 Franklin. It was in Hoboken, New Jersey. Oh, Blackwest! Yes, yeah, yeah. Well, I had moved here, so like, you know, you can say New Jersey on the podcast. It's okay. My husband's from New Jersey. I'm a big fan of New Jersey. Um, the uh the thing was though, is that that was three weeks before three weeks after September 11th. Right. So I was like, I was super excited. I'd been wanting to move to New York my whole life, and then September 11th happened, and then I was like, is this like am I gonna not be able to move there? And I had this friend from high school who was uh gonna be my roommate in Hoboken, and she called me on September 12th and was like, you are still moving here, aren't you? You signed a lease. So I I was gonna do it anyway, but I did. I I moved to New York, and it was a very sad, scary time to be here. Um, you know, I like had these dreams of sex in the city when I decided to move to New York, and instead it was like really one of the most depressing places. There was still smoke in the air, and there were missing posters on all of the subway stations for the people that were uh and I guess like at the time what I had been told is that anyone who had been found, they took their thing down. And because it had been three weeks, basically every picture that was still up was someone who had died. So it was a very, very sad time to be here. Yeah, somber. But you know what? The the city was in a very the people were in a very unique place. Everybody was so kind to each other um and supportive of each other in a way that people don't think New Yorkers can be. Um but this they they were people were amazing, everyone, and that like that stuck with me. So I never was one of those people that moved to New York or that lived in New York and thought like everyone here is rude because I know they're not, you know, just you know, we're busy, we've all got stuff to do, and like you know, it doesn't always require a 10-minute conversation to get a latte at Starbucks.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

I completely agree, and I think um there's nine million people in a very small space, yeah. And so I think because we don't have privacy and we don't have physical space, yeah. I think that's why we want emotional space sometimes. Totally. And you know, it's not it's not rude, it's just being polite to give people that emotional space. Yeah. Um, we don't have it in our apartments, we don't have it when we're out, we don't have it at a restaurant. That's just a luxury we do not have.

SPEAKER_05 10:41

It's totally true. It's funny, I've never thought of it like that, but that is exactly right. It's kind of like you, for your own mental sanity, you have to kind of like walk around in almost a bubble. Like just detach a little bit. Detach and your engagements can't all be as much as you might want them to be. You're engaged, like you can't engage with everyone in the same way because you'd never get through your day. You see so many people.

SPEAKER_06 11:06

Is that why so many of us like the winter? Because it's like gives us an opportunity to just like hibernate and anybody. Probably like, you know what, can't do it. Like, there's a snowstorm, it's just too cold. It's too cold, can't talk, gotta go.

SPEAKER_05 11:18

I don't have any children, but I always thought it would be good to be able to have a child as your excuse out of things. I have a dog, it works wonders. Yeah, gotta go walk the dog.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Yeah, well, that's why COVID was the happiest time of my life because I was like, oh, you know what? It's gonna be a no for me. Yeah, yeah. For the next year, actually, it's a no for me. I was really happy. I mean, I I in my non-COVID life, I'm never a canceller, but I secretly always want the other person to cancel. Everybody does.

SPEAKER_05 11:47

That's why when you do cancel, it's like you don't really have to feel bad because chances are the person on the other end is thrilled.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Except for when it's me and I actually want to go do something.

SPEAKER_06 11:57

It's like when you like okay nobody reconfirmed to somebody, you're like, hey, I just want to reconfirm. Like, are you do you really still want to do this? Like, are you sure you want to do this?

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Yeah, you know, because of the weather, I didn't know if you wanted to rain check it. And the person's like, You mean because it's 68 and sunny? Yeah, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

No, that's not me. You're I'm excited for plans because you're from California.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Yeah, that's true. You guys are just optimists. But I completely agree with you about um the the overall unity from New Yorkers during during um 9-11. And and you saw the exact same behavior with COVID as well. Yeah. Um, we were the first ones to get it, so we were kind of the experiment. And I think people looking from the outside in probably expected it to just be social entropy. But like you said, what they don't know about New Yorkers is what happens when there is millions of A-type personalities with a lot of extra time. We really like mobilized and united and um showed so much kindness and humanity that I was never prouder in my entire life to live here than them.

SPEAKER_05 13:19

Yeah, yeah. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:22

I was um I was not in New York City when COVID struck. I was actually in Paris uh for work. And it it was in at the time COVID was primarily coming out of I I don't remember exactly where it was, but it was really, really dominant in Milan. And I was there for Fashion Week, and I remember all of the people from the the Paris Fashion Week takes place after the Milan Fashion Week. So all these people were coming from Milan where it had been uh everywhere, and we were like kissing and hugging hello, because it was like nobody knew, yeah, and nobody knew what no one really knew about COVID at all.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

And you were kissing twice.

SPEAKER_05 14:08

Double. That's right, three times exactly twice the risk. Um, yeah, no, for sure. So I was very fortunate to have not gotten it. I spent the first three months of COVID in Miami. Oh, which as soon as we left, there was that massive outbreak there. It was really like it was great uh because for the exact reason that you said, like there was like you didn't, you weren't obligated to plans, you didn't have to go anywhere, you didn't have to do anything. But then on the other side, it was also terrifying because you were like, but do I die in this like like luxuriating in this kind of time off? Is this also the time that I'm gonna get sick and die?

SPEAKER_06 14:45

Wait, have we met?

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Have you been reading Chris's diary?

SPEAKER_06 14:49

Well, I lived in Miami for the last like 12 years essentially, and I was in Miami during the whole pandemic. Oh, were you? Where were you in Miami? I lived, I mean, I lived everywhere. Uh everywhere from South Beach. Well, when the pandemic happened, uh I was in in Orl, I was in Austin, came back to Orlando, and then I went back to uh Brickle. And then I was in Brickle for the last like four years before coming back to New York. Brickle is great. Brickle's awesome. Love to love the very crowded though. I mean that place is. Yeah, but it you don't realize it unless you have like unless you're not living in Brickle and you don't have a parking spot because then you're just like stuck in traffic all the time. But if you have a parking spot and you just go, you park your car, you walk wherever you want to go. Yeah, it's fine. But yeah, it is pretty.

SPEAKER_05 15:32

I would spend too much time in the design district if I lived in Brickle. It would be dangerous. Um, when do I put that silver thing on?

SPEAKER_01 15:41

The halfway point.

SPEAKER_05 15:42

So where oh, like literally like the halfway wallet. Whenever you feel like it's halfway. Did you just do all of that?

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:49

Oh lord.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

This is me purposely doing this. Oh, you did it too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:53

Oh, oh boy. But we're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Chris already made 18.

SPEAKER_05 15:56

I've I've I have no doubt.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Old nimble fingers over here.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

So when Chris and I moved to New York to do uh bring state of gratitude to the city, uh full time.

SPEAKER_06 16:08

Well, we were already here. Well we just like realized that we were like, oh shit, we should probably like live here if we're gonna be here all the time.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

So we would watch uh Housewives, especially Dubai and Miami, uh and sit in the living room and sex in the city, of course, and just bead bracelets. Because it was just him and I. During COVID? Well, no, this is uh in 20 uh 2024.

SPEAKER_06 16:31

Well, I had a I had a pretty uh eye-opening experience during my first holiday market. Okay. The first time I came to New York was for with the brand, not the first time ever, I lived I had lived here before, but like I came to New York to do the Bryant Park holiday market. Uh-huh. And within a very short period of time, I had run out of both hoodies and bracelets. To the point to the point where I was going home every single night, and I was beating bracelets until like three, four o'clock in the morning. Wow. And then I would take those bracelets with me to the shop, and people would buy them that day, and I'd be like, fuck. And I have to go back and make more bracelets. And I'd go home, make the bracelets that had sold. I wouldn't even finish putting them out, and like somebody would come up and buy them. I'd just be like, ah, great. And so like after that, I realized I was like, I can't just assume that like 200, 300 is gonna be enough for this. I need to like really make sure that I'm preparing for this like all year round. Wow. To make sure that like I have enough when the holidays fit. Um because like there's something to it, like there's something to the process of making it, there's something to the process of like making it by hand and like like actually like being a part of it, yeah, that is still like really important. And and so, yeah, Richard and I would just sit in the living room and and we set little quotas for ourselves, and we were like, we need to make this many bracelets by this day. And I would yell at him and he'd be like, You're not making them fast enough. And he'd be like, I'm trying, and I'm like Richard's fingers were bleeding. I was I was mean. I was like, Richard, you need to you need to stay here. You need to sit here and you need a bead bracelets until you hit seven.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

But have you seen that man's hands? In proportion to the size of the beads?

SPEAKER_06 18:22

Yeah, I am. He was already at a disadvantage considering the fact that like, you know, he does have uh digits that are how would you say this? Larger than larger. Larger, larger digits than than size beautiful. Size beautiful. Exactly. I can understand. I mean, he has he has his strengths where I don't, and and you know, beating just he's gotten a lot better though. Oh yeah. He's gotten a lot better.

SPEAKER_05 18:48

Well, it's not my favorite thing. No, but you're good. You've got like this massive amount. Um I'm still like struggling with uh whatever.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

So this is why I choose first time I think you're doing better than some other first-timer super. Oh, really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

I'll tell you. But this is also why I like to sit next to the guest and beat, so that way it looks like You look better? I always look better.

SPEAKER_06 19:06

Oh, how nice. How generous of you. So what made you like when did you realize that like you wanted to do something in fashion?

SPEAKER_05 19:14

Um, it's funny. I actually just posted about that literally two seconds before I walked in the door here. I saw the fly asked. Just kidding. I um I well, the very first thing, it's the gayest story on the planet. The very first thing I when I knew the the very first time, excuse me, that I knew that I wanted to go into fashion, I was watching My Fair Lady on television when I was six years old. And uh the Ascot scene. You already love the story. Yeah, and the ascot scene came on when Audrey was wearing that that very large hat and the lace gown. And in that moment, I just like something came over me, and I I started sketching dresses, like trying to sketch what I was seeing on TV. I'd never done that before in my life, but I felt compelled to do it. And um, I remember my grandma, may she rest in peace, my grandma Ruth. She uh I called her so excited about these sketches that I had made, and she let me describe them in full detail to her. She, Patience of a Saint. And um and that really was what started my journey. Not it would be a while before I would come back to that, but I think it started my love of fashion and my love of um design and all of that. It planted the seed. It did, it planted the seed. And then um my I was so I was at I I went to many schools. I started at the University of Arizona in Tucson, Arizona. Uh I was there for one semester. I worked really hard. Uh I joined, believe it or not, I joined a fraternity, which is still something I can't believe I did. But yes, joined a fraternity. Um, but very quickly I realized like this whole situation was not for me.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Situation, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:06

Yeah, it was it was very much for me, it was very much a situation. It's a great school. I'm not disparaging the school at all, but just it wasn't for me. It wasn't right for you, it was not right for me, and also fraternity life was absolutely not right for me.

SPEAKER_06 21:19

It's funny you say that because like when I I went to Boston College and I lived with the same eight guys like pretty much all four years. We all lived in the same hall together, freshman year. Uh-huh. And then we moved into an eight-man apartment, our sophomore year, and then we all moved off campus together our junior year into a house with eight bedrooms and like two bathrooms on top and two bathrooms on the bottom. And we kept that house senior year and basically like living in a frat house, though. Yeah, I was gonna say that is a frat house. I mean, we weren't allowed to have frats because like Boston College is a Jesuit university, so we don't have fraternities or stories on campus. Um but that's just that's about as close as it gets. I mean, we all lived off campus our junior and senior year. I didn't mention this. It was because we lost our on-campus privileges.

SPEAKER_05 22:06

Oh wow. Yeah. So it was that kind of a situation. Yeah, we had a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Turns out lighting yourself on fire is frowned upon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:16

On the substance free floor. I mean crazy. I was like, I didn't ask to be here.

SPEAKER_05 22:24

So after uh Arizona Arizona State? Arizona, University of Arizona in Tucson. I went to uh the University of Wisconsin with where all of my friends were. In Madison? In Madison. And there I proceeded to have a really good time. But then I had a friend who was going to Syracuse University and she was studying fashion at Syracuse. And I was like, I was obsessed with talking to her about like what she was doing and what her classes were like, and da da da. And she would say to me, Keith, why don't you just go into fashion? And I was like, that's not a thing. People don't just go into fashion. It turns out that they do. And uh and so I decided, I went and I bought myself a sketch pad, a sketch pad and pencils. And I started sketching at seven o'clock at night. And the next thing I knew it was seven o'clock in the morning. Oh and I was surrounded by these. I did it again. I was surrounded by sketches uh of all these different ideas that I guess had been circulating in my head, and I knew in that moment that this was the career for me.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

Oh you still have them?

SPEAKER_05 23:40

I don't still have them, thankfully, because they're really they were really bad. Uh but nonetheless I call so my friend was going to she was studying abroad at the London College of Fashion. Why has this like stopped working for me? What am I doing wrong?

SPEAKER_06 23:54

I never really went to Subby Room that often. Oh, okay. I lived in Bickle, so like going over that bridge was like daunting.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

Yeah, yeah, I get it.

SPEAKER_06 24:03

I used to live on South Beach, so that was my first apartment living in this beach, and living in Miami Beach was on South Beach.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Was that with Amanda?

SPEAKER_06 24:10

Well, Amanda eventually moved into that apartment. Um I actually have a roommate. My roommate in Miami, my last roommate in Miami, um was one of my best friends who I had met at a gay circuit party on New Year's Day, like 12 years ago. And then we both like ended up living in Miami at the same time, hot mess expresses. And then when she graduated from law school, she needed to move out of like the apartment that she was in. I was like, just come stay with me. She ends up living with me for like six, seven months in like a 315 square foot studio on South Beach. Wow. We fought zero times. Really? We had the time of our lives. Oh, that's awesome. And like we realized at that point that like we just like we we vibed on like a different level that like we just knew, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, you could just get along with somebody under like any sort of circumstances possible.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

And this is pretty before you got sober.

SPEAKER_06 25:14

So before we got sober, I said she's sober as well. So the things that we used to do in that apartment, if those walls could talk, they would sober.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

But you let me tell you it's like you can have some uh um non-romantic soulmates, you know? And that could be one of them where those people, when you're around them, bring you joy. There's so much ease. Yeah, you're like, you know what? In whatever capacity, I will spend my life with you in some type of capacity. Right.

SPEAKER_05 25:45

That's the person that like you don't have to see too too often or speak to too often, and when you see them, it's like you never missed them before you're still the same.

SPEAKER_06 25:55

I mean, she's been yeah, because then what ended up happening is that like I went on my own road, if you will, and then she went on her own road. And then, you know, she went to rehab first, and then I followed a couple years later, but like I called her a lot through that whole entire process to kind of like she was the only person that I knew at the time that was sober, so like it was the only person that I could put like a face to it. Uh so I called her a lot, and and then I convinced her to move to Miami, and then with when she after like her deciding that she was gonna move to Miami like about a month later, I was like, Oh, I'm moving to New York.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Where was she when before she moved into Miami?

SPEAKER_06 26:40

Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Okay, so she upgraded anyway.

SPEAKER_06 26:43

Yeah, no, she wanted to come back to Miami. No, no, no, she wanted to come back to Miami. I just like it's not like he uh got her to go out to Pittsburgh. Yeah, exactly. I wasn't like, hey, come move to uh Quebec or whatever. Actually, that's that's it. Quebec might be actually Edmonton. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Minsk. Minsk come meet me in Belarus.

SPEAKER_05 27:01

Yes, yes. I do like Philadelphia though, I have to say.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Oh, me too. Me too.

SPEAKER_05 27:06

The city of Brotherly Love, my dad's from Philly. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Good cheesesteak. I'd like uh are you a cheesesteak person? Of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

I always like observing New Yorkers when they go to Philly for the weekend because they're like, oh, this is all the stuff we have, but but easier and cleaner. Wait, I can do this, I can live here. Look at all this, and everything's to our pain in the ass standards. Great, great, great. And then by the time Sunday rolls around rolls around and you realize that the entire town is obsessed with sports, that's when the New Yorkers are like, Oh, I gotta get out of here. Yeah. So yeah, they are.

SPEAKER_06 27:46

My dad is obsessed, obsessed, and my brother is too with the uh Eagles? Yeah, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Yeah, God forbid.

SPEAKER_06 27:55

Go birds! And I'm like, no, dad, please stop.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Please stop.

SPEAKER_05 27:58

Don't do it ever again. That that's why I'm so grateful to be married to my husband because he actually keeps up with things sports-related. So he can talk to my dad about sports and he can talk to other people about sports, and I can just like you know, whereas I used to like, you know, I don't know if you've ever felt this way, but I used to feel like this pressure of like when someone would start talking about sports that I had to somehow know what they were talking about. Or know what sport it was, at least or how the game was even played.

SPEAKER_06 28:25

Football still eludes me. Really? Um at busted college, but I had I had to learn. It was like sink, so it was like swim or be like eaten.

SPEAKER_05 28:34

Yeah. Well, that was my problem. It was like I just I I never I I just never, no matter how hard I want, no, no matter how much I wanted to know about sports so that I could participate in the conversation, but goes down. Just never took.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

No, it's it's it's boring. Thankfully, I don't have that issue with my dad. My dad worked in fashion. And so Oh, what did he do? He's a powder maker. Oh, yeah. And his story was kind of similar to the one you were saying with with your friend, because he was a yellow cab driver, and sometimes when he would be waiting for a fair, if he was working like a night shift and stuff, he said to pet he said it would be kind of kind of lonely. And so to pass the time, he would do sketches on the hood of the car.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

And then he had tons and tons and tons. And so one of his passengers said to him, just like your conversation, you need to go to fashion school. And same thing. What? What? And he's like, Yeah, I'm he's like, Well, I have all of these. Let me look look at what I have in the trunk. And he was like, These are amazing. Wow. And so my dad went to FIT, I think, right then and there. Wow. And um, you know, speaking about that kind of um convergence of masculinity and and and fashion guys, he would also try to relate to the men in his neighborhood and sit there and watch and watch football with them, but he was always kind of like making rosettes for a dress for me or something, like all the time, and they'd be like, you know, you're not paying attention. And he's like, I can't, this fabric's delicate, it's very simple. So you are who you are, you know. That's so crazy.

SPEAKER_06 30:08

I mean, like, it's it's it's interesting because it's like I I've I don't know how to make a tech pack. Like, I don't know, I didn't even know that there were different types of fabric to begin with. Like when we first started with a t-shirt. I was like, Can I make a hundred t-shirts? And they're like, what kind of like what kind of fabric do you want to use? And I was like, T-shirt fabric?

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Denim t-shirts?

SPEAKER_06 30:28

It's not like I'm jealous that like like that you like that you had, I don't know. I kind of I feel like sometimes I fell into this, and like to have that like sort of background, I go backwards in a lot of ways, and it's like, okay, you know, you have the brand, now learn how to make the clothes. And I'm like, wait, what?

SPEAKER_01 30:44

I mean, I remember that, but it also makes me completely unrelatable now because I remember being like seven years old and looking at the box of a crayons and being like, I didn't I didn't start. And like, why like you don't have the color I need? And like, why is it it says purple, but I need a plum. You know, and that that's how I was raised talking like that. It's more of a it's more of a buttercream, really. And then as you're you know, an adult, people are like, what? You know, you're unrelatable. It's you're not a normal person if you if you talk like that.

SPEAKER_05 31:12

That was the reason why I related to my grandmother so much, because in my my family, fashion wasn't a thing. Yeah, it wasn't like part of our daily conversation. And um my mom is an is very interested in art and she's a painter, but she was not uh she also makes bracelets, actually, but she was not um wasn't a fashion fashion girly, and my father absolutely not. And uh my grandma though, her and her mother owned a dress shop, like a high-end dress shop in Chicago. And so I used to hear it had been closed by the time I was born, but I used to hear all of these amazing stories about this old-world couture dress shop that they owned. And so that was where my imagination started uh running was through those, like those stories. Um and uh yeah, I just I became obsessed with trying to track down this life that I knew that I needed to have. Uh, and I guess I did it.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

The women of those generations really had such a um a love for details and a little little extra accoutrement, the brooches, the pins, yes, you know, the the the buttons, the cuffs, the lady gloves, the art of getting dressed in the morning.

SPEAKER_03 32:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Um, there's always a little bit of whimsy and glamour to it. And I think when you add some of those extra details, you carry yourself differently out in the world.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Um, so which brings me to a question I'm very curious about uh picking your brain. How do you think we can get America out of leggings and into start getting dressed to leave the house again? How do we get them out of leggings?

SPEAKER_05 33:08

Well, here's the problem. As you see, I came here today in sweatpants. They're not leggings. I happen to leggings. Uh so you know, I don't know. I don't I don't necessarily know that that there will ever be a day when that will happen. Um I think that you know that ship has sailed. Um it's funny though, because I make these um these AI videos that um like a lot of them show fashion through the ages, starting back with like, you know, the could be the medieval era or Renaissance or whatever. And then I bring it all the way up to today. And the comments are inevitably always about how disappointing the fashion we have today is compared to what it was like earlier on, which I understand that, for sure. I understand that, but I think that's because the people that feel that way have never actually put on a robe à la Francaise, which is like a Marie Antoinette gown, and what pain and torture it was to actually wear one of those things. Weren't they also like super like unsanitary and like people were fainting? Yes. Well they used to carry uh the the little nosegaze, the little bouquets of flowers so that they didn't have to smell each other.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

I was watching an invest episode of the Gilded Age. Uh-huh. And you know, it's set in New York, and I was watching it during the summer when it's hot, and you know, sometimes I'm walking around the city shirtless because it I'll especially even if I'm on my bike. I won't even. I also walk around the city shirtless. I won't go outside. I refuse to go outside. I might get it. I look at how they have it.

SPEAKER_06 34:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

And how do you summertime melt?

SPEAKER_06 35:02

They did. They did. Everybody smelled.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

There was a lot of melt. And smelt.

SPEAKER_05 35:06

I think it was also as hot as it was. That's true. But like no, I think it was just like it was just oppressive. Oppressive, and it was what, you know, it was just that's you just dealt with it. When you don't know Different, I suppose that's the situation. Like you just kind of deal.

SPEAKER_06 35:23

It's like Teddy, you know, Teddy, my dog, he was born in the month of like the end of May. So I think he was basically like barely like cognizant of anything, like, during the whole entire summer. So he really was a puppy all winter. He's not really like the first day it was hot the other day. He was like, he was like trying to run inside every five seconds. He's like, What is this? Why is it so hot out here? Where's the snow? Like, I just want to run and jump in the snow. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

Aww. Yeah. So how did you get started in your AI videos?

SPEAKER_05 35:58

Um, okay, so I had been um I was a friend of mine, I was talking to a friend of mine who was basically saying, advising very strongly that I learn how to use AI because it was going to take over my industry. And at this was probably about five years ago. And I didn't want to do it. I really didn't like it. I was very upset, like uncomfortable by it. I didn't like the idea that there was this talk that it could do the designing for you and you know, blah, blah, blah, and it was going to take over. But begrudgingly, I I didn't understand on some level that that was true. So begrudgingly, I started uh dabbling in AI for like the next four plus years. And what happened was I found I I actually loved it because, you know, having worked in fashion for as long as I have, like, you know, you design a dress and then you don't see that dress for months, maybe like it could be up to two months before you actually see the finished product. Whereas with AI, you prompt it to give you the gown that you want, and you have something that looks like the real thing in seconds.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:15

And so that was deeply satisfying for me. And then I would also like make these like gratification, huh? Instinctively. I would also make these homes that were like my dream house, and like, you know, all these like glass houses on a cliff overlooking the water kind of thing. And so I had fallen in love with it, and then uh Christmas of not this Christmas, not this past Christmas, but the Christmas before, my husband and I were on our way to Florida, to Miami, and we were in the airport, and I was bored, and I was seeing on Instagram that everybody was posting these, like, you know, Christmas wishes, uh, you know, Merry Christmas, blah, blah, blah. And um I thought, I don't know where the idea came from, but I thought, well, what if I did an AI video of Christmas trees as if they were designed by different designers? So, like a Christian Dior Christmas tree, a Louis Vuitton Christmas tree. So I made it, it didn't take me very long. I made it and I posted it right before we got on the plane. Now I honestly thought that most of the people that looked at it would be like, what is this weird shit that Keith is on right now? And like, you know, and everybody else would just ignore it. By the time the plane landed, and I had about three, three thousand followers at the time, by the time the plane landed, it had been viewed like 125,000 times in three hours.

SPEAKER_03 38:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 38:39

And I'd never obviously never experienced anything like that before. Now, here's the thing: ten years before this all happened, I was um I went to go see the top fashion recruiter in Paris. And I asked, she asked me what kind of jobs I wanted, and I told her. I said these are the kind of jobs I wanted. And the very next question she asked me was, How many followers do you have on Instagram? Which at the time when I saw her, I think I had 700. What year was this? This was uh probably about 12 years ago. So, what was the job you said that you wanted? Uh, I was saying I wanted a creative director role at a company, which is still my dream, but um that that was the role that I wanted. And at the the big fashion houses, you need to have some sort of notoriety. I guess they this recruiter felt you need to have some sort of notoriety.

SPEAKER_06 39:33

You have to be like Pharrell.

SPEAKER_05 39:34

Yeah. So when I yeah. So when, although I do have to say I think Pharrell is doing a very good job there. I was I was very hesitant to to uh I think most people were. Yeah, but I do think he's doing a good job. So anyway, um I lost my train of thought.

SPEAKER_06 39:53

So you were you were talking to the recruiter. She was a good one.

SPEAKER_05 39:56

Oh, I'm talking to the recruiter, yes, blah blah blah blah blah. She says, she says you're never gonna get the jobs you want with your following on Instagram. So then I spent the next 10 years trying to build this like following on Instagram for one purpose and one purpose only, which was to get the jobs that I wanted. And so when this Christmas tree thing worked, I was like, Well, I gotta pursue this. Like, this is like I'm getting all these followers and blah blah blah. Like now this is my ticket. This is my opportunity. But then what happened was is that I noticed that the comments I was getting were especially I started making these AI videos about art coming to life. Like I went to the the Met and I took pictures of the art and I brought the art to life, and this was before people were doing that, and um the comments I was getting was about how happy it was making people to like watch it, and like people were literally coming out of the woodwork telling me that like my videos were they had been suffering from depression, and my videos were getting them, you know, out of bed in the morning. And you know, uh, I remember a woman from Israel told me that she was so sad about what was going on in Israel at the time, and this was the first thing that had made her smile. So, like when I read those things, I was like, Well, I I it was no longer about that job that I wanted, it became about trying to make people happy.

SPEAKER_06 41:14

How did that make you feel then? Did you feel like more connected to what you were doing, or did you feel like it had taken kind of like a role of its own?

SPEAKER_05 41:21

Well, it definitely took a role of its own. Okay. There's no question. Like it was, it took it, it took on a life of its own, but at the same, and then I would tell myself, I'm like, I'm done with this, I'm not doing this anymore. And then a week would go by, a couple days would go by, and I'd be like, Oh, I have a great idea for a video. So, you know, I don't know. Do you still do it? I do, yeah. I still do it. Although now I do more um my videos are are seguing into me talking about fashion from the past and uh art artists from the past, really. Um, because I noticed that a large portion of my following loves to hear about art and culture, so which is great because that aligns with me. And that's why I posted that thing today, because uh today, yesterday I had 400,000 followers on. Congratulations. All right. Thank you. Which was a yeah, a huge, huge uh it's just a huge number. I don't know that it's like such an accomplishment for me anymore, like, but I think it's it just I'm just so flattered that so many people care about what it is that I'm want to talk about. So um or focus on. So anyway, I don't know where all that was from.

SPEAKER_06 42:31

I mean, like it's it it it's definitely validating, you know, to have um you know, your voice is heard and it's resonating with people and your message is helping others. And I think to me, like from what you just said, that's kind of like what I would take for many. It's like you're helping other people and you're giving other people a reason to like you know, to smile, to do something, to like to wake up, to like you know, push forward, to move forward. Yeah, and that that is beautiful, like it's very it's very admirable in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_05 43:01

It was never anything that I had set out to do at all. Like it was not part of the idea behind it. It was just because I thought it was funny to watch these AI like art come to life and all that, and I love art, so uh, but then I did it it did become about bringing people joy in a way that I never thought I could. I never thought I had the ability to affect people in that way. That's the reason why I also love bridal, is because and wedding in general, is because it's it's an opportunity to actually bring people some joy, like really bring people joy. Uh and fashion doesn't always have a real way of doing that. So um when you when I would design a dress or work on a dress and um and I would see the person wearing it smile and really genuinely from their heart you could see that they were happy, like that made me feel fulfilled. And I didn't realize that uh at the time, but then When this all thing started happening with AI, I connected the dots and I was like, Oh, I like making people happy. Like that's really making somebody smile is such a huge accomplishment today. It's crazy how much it is because we're all so scared most of the time these days. And I think it's like if you can bring somebody even just a second of relief from the fear of what's happening in the world today, like that's just as powerful as protesting or doing anything else.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

So it's interesting that by through the convergence of fashion and art, you um brought all these people joy. That's kind of how you're being of service, you know, in in in this life. You know, that's that's your gift. And uh I think a lot of times when we think of living a life where we, you know, help others, sometimes it we we think kind of binary about it, where maybe we have to be a social worker and we have to like, or something in that in that uh yeah, exactly. Or maybe it's you have to help uh um uh ameliorate something that's bad. But in your case, it's not just taking away something that's bad, it's actually bringing something that's good. Um and sometimes it's it's just as simple as art.

SPEAKER_04 45:16

It's amazing to me how simple the solution actually is. It seems so Occam's razor. It seems so what is it?

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Occam's razor. I don't know what's that. That's the the theory of how the the best solution is the simplest, and it's usually right in front of you.

SPEAKER_05 45:31

Oh, yes. We overcomplicate things and make them more complicated than they need to be. And you said that's Occam's razor. Yes. Okay, because I want to be able to say that and sound smart at some point in time. Well, you got the glasses. People are just gonna assume. Yes, they do. They assume I'm smarter than I am when I'm wearing the glasses.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

Bigger the glasses, bigger the brain.

SPEAKER_05 45:49

But that is really um that is that is something that I cherish is being able to be of service. You know, I I wake up in the morning and I pray. That's kind of my general routine, and I always ask God to help me to be of service, to help me be a kind person, to help me be a good person, to help me be of service to others. And uh when and I really do believe that this in a sense is my prayer being answered, that I can actually do that. So, and that's all, you know, all of that is tied back to my sobriety, which is a huge, huge part of my life and a very important part of my life. And I would have none of what I have today if it wasn't for that.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

Ah, interesting. So you wouldn't you do not you don't think you would be able to be of service if you were not sober?

SPEAKER_05 46:38

No, definitely not. I was I was of service to one person and one person only, and that was me. Uh no, no, I definitely don't think that I would. I I I don't even want to think about where I would be in the world if I hadn't um gotten sober. But it definitely, every single good thing that has happened to me in my life since I got sober is a direct result of my sobriety. Like I can literally trace it back, including my job, uh, my job with Beer Wang for the past 14 years. Like that was a that was a connection. The I I came in through a connection of a friend who was sober also and knew that I was looking for work. Um my husband, I met him in AA. So there's all of the all of the big things. I have a great relationship with my family today, which I'm so blessed to have. And that's all the result, as you know. Like, so these things are blessings.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Did the choice to go to fashion school happen after you got sober or before you got sober?

SPEAKER_05 47:42

Before. Okay. Before. But you know, the crazy thing is, is like I had this job, right, that was like a dream job, and I wasn't sober yet. And I really I resented the job because it was getting in the way of what you want to do. Of course. And I knew inherently in that moment that there was like there was something wrong. Like this dream that I this goal that I had, this dream that I had set out to achieve, I was actively achieving it and it didn't mean anything to me. And that scared me. Yeah. So that that was also a big catalyst, catalyst, excuse me. Yeah. And then I started my own brand before I got sober, and that wasn't good either.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

What was the brand?

SPEAKER_05 48:30

It was called it was just my name. Uh, it was a designer collection. And state of ingratitude. Yeah, literally. Uh, but the the brand was a ready-to-wear, it was meant to be a ready-to-wear collection, but you know, I really wasn't prepared at all. I had absolutely no um, I had no insight into what it was to be an independent designer working for yourself, especially in that field. So I had to teach myself everything, and it was essentially the most expensive lesson I ever learned. My father helped me subsidize it, my sister helped me subsidize it, like these, you know, but without them I would never have been able to achieve what I what I've done today because as it even though it didn't work out, it was all an amazing lesson for me. It was a very expensive education. So that business, I had I started it right before I got sober, but that was not good. And then I got sober, and the whole foundation of it was just a mess because I had started it at a time before I should have started it. And so I was never able to get it to kind of to get any sort of momentum. Um, and then 2008 happened, which put everybody out of business, and it that was the kind of the final nail in the coffin of my brand. And uh shortly thereafter is when I went to go work for Vera.

SPEAKER_06 49:51

So we like to do a segment here called Ungrateful Confessions. Basically, we opened the room to uh talk about things that are kind of like bothering us today, and just get it off our chest, get it out into the open, so then that way we can move on. Oh, this is dangerous. So it's a judgment-free zone. Right. I mean, in a good way. So I I think I have one right off the bat. I've been walking the dog a lot lately, and I've been trying to walk him longer because it's getting nicer out sometimes. And there's just like so much trash everywhere. Yeah. And it's like, I think it's a large it's due in large part to the fact that like we had so much snow on the ground that now that the snow is all melted, it's just like, like, do we really have to be that disgusting? Like, pick up after yourself. Like, and if the trash can is full, like by the corner, like of the of the sidewalk, bring it into your apartment and put it in your trash can and then like take it to the trash bag. Like, there's so many other options. You don't have to like pile trash on top of trash, on top of trash, on top of trash, or like throw it on the side of the street. It's almost like some people just took like a trash bag and they were like, I don't know where to put it, and so they just like rip the bag open and just dump it on the ground.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

Sometimes what I see, I I'm actually so shocked, or I'm like, oh, I thought I've seen it all, but apparently not. And I'll take pictures of it and I'm like, you know, mornings in Brooklyn, or like, you know, Bushwick mornings. And I'm like, so there's just a diaper with a chicken wing in it? Okay. How? How does it happen?

SPEAKER_05 51:25

Yeah. When you I have two dogs, and when you have dogs in this city, you discover how many chicken bones are on the ground.

SPEAKER_06 51:34

How are there so many chicken bones on the ground? Who are the assholes that are not picking up their fucking chicken bones? Like, throw them in the trash can and produce like for Christ's sakes.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

It's like there's there's no, you know, better metal detector than your dog. I mean. Because my dog, when we walk, we'll be like, oh, I'm not interested in going to the dog park. No, no, no. I would love to just hang out by that greasy dumpster. If we could just hang out there, that's great for me.

SPEAKER_05 52:02

Sure it is, buddy. There's a big puddle of urine that I need to go stick my nose in.

SPEAKER_06 52:10

I think I need to taste it.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

Oh, vomit on a dead rat? Let's go see what it's about.

SPEAKER_05 52:18

Those are the moments when you remember that your dog is not human. And then Teddy just comes walking up from underneath the table.

SPEAKER_02 52:25

He's like, he's talking about all my favorite things right now.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Yeah, exactly. He shows up. Did someone say rat?

SPEAKER_02 52:33

These are my grateful moments.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 52:37

As he literally picks up something off the ground, and then I'm like, what is he eating right now?

SPEAKER_01 52:42

But maybe that's just slowly inoculating us and it's making us so much stronger, and our constitutions and immune system is just indestructible.

SPEAKER_05 52:53

I actually don't disagree with that. We let our dog sleep on our bed, and I think that that is uh really helping my my immune system.

SPEAKER_01 53:02

If you don't, you're abusive. If you don't let your dog sleep with you, I need to call on you for neglect.

SPEAKER_06 53:09

I'll protect the services. They're like, this is not an animal. I'm the hell it is.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

Look at Richard.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

Richard is like, not in my bed. No.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

White women being white women again, saying they're crazy stuff with their dogs.

SPEAKER_02 53:22

No, that's the worst. The thing I hate about sometimes dating people is going over to their house and they have a dog that sheds, especially like white sh uh hair. Yeah. And expects you to sleep over and it's covered in dog hair.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

That's gross.

SPEAKER_06 53:38

Yeah, usually people fill out a questionnaire then before you even get over there. Be like, Do you have a dog? Oh, I stopped at Instagram. Ah. So but if it's one of the dogs like Teddy Ted on Instagram.

SPEAKER_02 53:48

A dog like Teddy, since he's hypo-allogenic, I don't mind. He does.

SPEAKER_06 53:51

But Teddy's still, like, every time I get home, I always like wash his paws because like he kicks off his little booties, like the little like balloons that you can put over their feet. And next thing you know, as he's walking around right now, because Brooklyn is filthy, his paws are black. After like five minutes.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

Well, it rained.

SPEAKER_06 54:12

I drove.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

Like, well, that's also when I see people walking around barefoot.

SPEAKER_03 54:21

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

And these aren't people who are unhoused. These are people that clearly are coming out of the hand. I've never seen it.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

That's no joke. Like they like they can-there's biohazards up there. Like they could get MRSA. Like, that's like a fatal mistake.

SPEAKER_06 54:34

I've seen well, there's people that literally have electricity running through them and they can be electric views.

SPEAKER_01 54:39

That's actually an even better point. So let it just be known that when I say that my dog sleeps with me in my bed, I also, when we come back from a walk, sit down, I do the scrub down, I give him a quick thing with the put with the wipes, and then you know, I'll have a little bottle that's like diluted Dr. Bronner, some witch hazel and water, squirt the wipes. So he's he's good. That's fine.

SPEAKER_05 55:00

That is so much I'm I'm like my dogs are raw dogging it, raw raw dogging it in the apartment.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

You live in Manhattan. I live in Bushweg.

SPEAKER_05 55:07

Uh trust me, it's no different.

SPEAKER_06 55:09

The the uh it I mean I mean, as somebody who literally comes out here every single day, it's different. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 55:15

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_06 55:17

It's just like so much like I'm just like, why?

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Like like the diaper chicken bing thing wasn't me being funny, that was yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_06 55:24

I do, I do know that for sure. It's just it it it it is an extra level of trash. And I'm just like, why? What is going on what is so different between the two, like in terms of like the humans? That just like makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

No, it's a tax bracket.

SPEAKER_06 55:39

Yeah, but I mean like at the same time, like I mean everybody eats chicken wings at some point or another, right?

SPEAKER_01 55:44

Sure, but it's about when the Department of Sanitation comes, um, and also basically how many uh residents are in one building. So you know, the with the socioeconomic factors involved. Education level. A Bushwick building might have significantly more people.

SPEAKER_05 56:05

Yeah. So well, I still give you credit for cleaning the paws because yeah. It's dirt, dogs are dirty. Do you guys do you allow shoes in your house?

SPEAKER_06 56:17

Absolutely not. No, absolutely not. So you guys take them off. I mean in Miami, I didn't really care.

SPEAKER_02 56:22

Oh yeah, when I lived in Austin, I didn't care.

SPEAKER_06 56:25

New York is different. Shoes off. Um unless I'm having like I was gonna say if you're having a party. I was literally gonna say if I if I was having a party, I would not make people take off their shoes.

SPEAKER_01 56:36

No, of course, because the shoes are part of the law.

SPEAKER_05 56:38

Well, that's kind of what I'm talking about, though.

SPEAKER_02 56:39

That's why I want to know.

SPEAKER_06 56:40

No, you don't make people take off their shoes if you're having a party.

SPEAKER_02 56:42

No, then you have a sex and acidity situation. Oh, those are sized ten and a half, eleven.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

And also, you can't be at your best meeting strangers in your socks. It's it's just a too humbling.

SPEAKER_02 56:55

I have.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

I can't I can't.

SPEAKER_05 57:01

You had socks on? He only had socks on.

SPEAKER_01 57:04

I mean, if you weren't and that's why you didn't get invited back to the cruises party.

SPEAKER_03 57:11

All right.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

Actually, I would be like, that's why you are getting invited back to the cruise party. What's your ungrateful? I need self-reg.

SPEAKER_05 57:18

What is my ungrateful? Um, my ungrateful is I so I take the subway and I pay to take the subway. And every time I go to get on the subway, at least three or four people jump the turnstile. And I'm like, so I have to pay, but you don't have to pay?

SPEAKER_01 57:43

You don't have to pay.

SPEAKER_05 57:44

Of course I don't have to pay. But I wanna I I I'm an upstanding citizen of you know, I'm a midwestern.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

You can only you don't live like that.

SPEAKER_06 57:53

You remember when somebody jumped in the turnstile with me after I had paid and I got the ticket? An employee of ours.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

You got the ticket? Yes. Game game see game. Wow. Wow. That is so good.

SPEAKER_06 58:05

I was like, wait, why am I getting the ticket?

SPEAKER_01 58:08

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 58:09

And it was an ex-employee of ours at the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 58:12

I was so mad. He's like, you probably fired him in the room.

SPEAKER_05 58:15

There are some people where, of course, it's like if you can't afford transportation and there's no way for you to get around.

SPEAKER_06 58:20

Otherwise, they have their social services in place that like literally will give you a metro card for free. Really? Yes. Oh, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

Yes, but if you sometimes navigating that system can require a lot, and not everybody has that kind of developmental capacity.

SPEAKER_05 58:36

Yeah, agreed.

SPEAKER_01 58:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:39

So but anyway, that is my that is my uh my gripe. And then my other my other ungratitude is when they run out of peppermint at Starbucks. I was just saying when they run out of pistachio. Because of the I my favorite drink from them is their is to get a short oat milk peppermint mocha.

SPEAKER_03 59:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 59:01

And inevitably, toward the end of the holidays, they stop carrying the peppermint, and I get very resentful about that. Who was me making it? You just get a latte. No, I'm I'm I'm like, I'm the worst when it comes to those things. Because if I'm going to Starbucks, I don't want a cup of coffee. I want like some mocha chocolate latte it. Yeah. Like I want to know that I'm like that it's too many calories and it's gonna taste like a milkshake. Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 59:30

Yeah, it's the best. Like the like the Dubai. Dubai matcha.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

We were on a cruise, and normally when I go to Starbucks, I just get the cold brew. But every day on the cruise, I got the Dubai pistachio the matcha. That's so good. Because it has pistachio, it has the Dubai chocolate. I was like, you know, I'm going to drink this every day.

SPEAKER_06 59:48

I had diarrhea for like five days straight.

SPEAKER_02 59:52

That was seasickness.

SPEAKER_05 59:53

I didn't need to know that.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

We're gonna edit it out.

SPEAKER_05 59:56

You're done. I think I'm done. You are.

SPEAKER_00 59:59

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:00

Yep. Wow. You did it. Oh wait, maybe I didn't. There's a negative space.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:05

Oh, because there's we need space up here for tying it.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:07

I will take it from the end.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

Yeah, I think that's great. Um, so you said that um your followers really enjoy um the historical different eras of fashion. What is your favorite era?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:25

Visually, I think my favorite era is Rococo. Um I think that's you know the whole kind of Marie Antoinette vibe. So I think visually it's it's that. Um, but then you know, I also I do love the 60s, um the kind of mod 60s, um, because you know it was so futuristic looking in a way, a lot of it, the Pierre Cardin and all that. Um so yeah, I would say that. What's yours?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:57

Well, I mean, when you talking, when I didn't realize until you started talking, and I was like, oh, I think I want to dress like I'm in a Bob Fossey video. I think I would like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:07

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:07

Um that's a good look. I also love boxy men's suits. Um, so even just like a Bianca Jagger disco kind of uh suit. I love a I love a nice blazer with nothing underneath it. Um but that kind of is every era.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:24

Um that's what I'm thinking of right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:36

What about you? Oh I'm like the worst. I wouldn't even have I don't I wouldn't even know how to begin to answer that question because I have no idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

Oh, okay. Well maybe we should maybe we should do a little um styling where based on you and what you look like and your vibe, what we think would look best on him.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:54

I mean, I just think I'm very like I don't know. I just like I'm very much just like a sweatpants, sweatshirt, overcoat.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:04

You look great in the overcoat though.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:06

Yeah, I love a good overcoat with like a nice hoodie underneath and like just like some really like tailored sweatpants or joggers, like the ones that we made. And uh and then like high socks that kind of like go over top of the joggers and like some white sneakers, like an overcoat or over over monochromatic set.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

I love that.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:21

Yeah, same. Yeah. With with the hood coming out, yeah. I always love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:26

Oh guys, have you heard about I don't even if you want to call it a trend or just a kind of a LUT style hack, but it's called the wrong shirt, and it's uh kind of a style hack that you do with um um leisure wear.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:40

So you would do a map uh like a very neat matching set, and then underneath it you put in oversized striped poplin uh collar button down.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:51

Um I did that like three days ago with uh with a Scotch and soda, it was a it was a cropped Scotch and soda hoodie, and I wore a super oversized t-shirt underneath it, so the t-shirt came out the bottom like really, really heavy, and then my joggers and then a yeah, yeah, and then an overcoat over top of it because everyone loves an overcoat. Yeah, if you look amazing, then why would you stop wearing that? Yeah, you look very good. So let's measure that one out. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:20

Your what's yours? Yeah, let's do yours first. Where did this evil eye come from? Nobody told me about an evil eye. We have so many secrets, just like he needs the protection, you don't. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:31

I don't know. Uh like Chris, I wear not what you wear, what's my favorite era? But that's just the thing, is I don't really know. Okay. Era of fashion. I couldn't tell you what era I like to pull things from different places.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:48

I mean, like one of the things that I've always wanted to make, I've always wanted to do like a like a like a pattern block of like a like a windbreaker kind of thing. You know? I thought that would be like really cute.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:59

I do like old school pictures of like guys from like the 70s, early 80s. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:07

Men in the early 80s were especially like um what's his name?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:10

Um with the mustache. Tom Selleck. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:13

I have a club called T Sauce, it's the Tom Selleck Appreciation Society. Are we still? It's me and my two best friends, and we get together once a year and talk about how hot Tom Selleck was in the 80s. That's it.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:22

Are we still allowed to talk about him?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:24

Why?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:25

Why? Isn't is Tom Sellick the one that was uh what is he from?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:29

Magnum P.I. He wore the short shorts in the 80s.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:32

Okay. Who's Mr. Big? Oh, Christopher No. Unanimous sleeve. Yeah. That was a no-run. Oh, he was in uh he's in uh Law and Order. Who is? Yeah, Bluebloods, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

Yeah, he's he's an oldie, he's an oldie bookodeie now.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:53

But in his day, Christopher Nolan?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:57

Is that who we're talking about? No, it's Tom Selleckstone. Oh, Tom Sell. Oh, he's on Blue Bloodstone. I didn't know okay. Yeah, he's the chief or whatever. Yeah, yeah. I don't watch a whole lot of television. I mean I watch like uh thanks. Uh I watch um a lot of modern family.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:15

You do?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:16

A lot of modern family.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:17

That's so funny. I always say that my family's like modern family. Same. Oh, it is. Because my mom is from Columbia, my dad is American. Oh. My cousins live right down the street from us. And like I'm gay, my cousin Kristen is like, you know, we were like a year and a half, two years apart, like grew up together, so it's like there's so many dynamics like in that family that exists in real life in mine that it's like it's crazy watching the show. You like watching it? I love it. It's great. It reminds me a lot of like, you know, the way that I grew up, like in a lot of different ways. You know, my mom having to like explain all the Colombian traditions to my dad all the time, and like, oh, just like like what? Uh like you know, the color of Underwear that you wear, you know, like on New Year's Eve, or like the fact that you have to like run around the block like carrying empty suitcases because you want to travel a lot that year. Like my dad's like, why are we doing this? And it's like, just shut up and do it. Or like you like blow up this like life-size doll that's like shaped like a human.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:17

Uh-oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:18

And you call it like anueo. So like the old year, you blow it up.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:24

And then you blow up a human doll-shaped doll that's stuck with fireworks. Wow. Well, fireworks I knew from Modern Family that fireworks in the Columbia. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:35

Yes. Yeah. They do it in the part of Christmas.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:38

Uh-huh. Yeah. I uh I I like comfort television because I find so much of what goes on in the world today is so uh alarming that I need to escape and watch things that don't make me think.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:52

I can't watch anything. I don't like watching scary movies. I don't like, you know, dramas or like I don't like I don't need that. Like I need to be I want to be taken or like transported to a place that's gonna make me smile, it's gonna make me laugh. Maybe like your Instagram page or like you know come join me on my Instagram page.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:09

Or the Great British Fake Off.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:11

Oh that's always a good one.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:13

The Great British Fake Off was a yeah, that was that the pastel color palette of the whole tent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:19

But also like that, they're not, it's not, you know, American like food competition, any sort of reality competition in America is like vicious. Like everyone's out to kill each other. It's like life or death. Good. But like I don't like that at all. And so that's why I liked the um British Bake Off because they're all so nice to each other. They are. It's like if somebody's having a hard time with something, they all like chip in and help.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:45

I have a question. If you could be on any reality show, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:49

Great British Bake Off.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:50

You would be on that show?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

Oh yeah, because also the Brits don't seem to do peanut butter, so I would just swoop in with chocolate banana peanut butter and win.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:59

Yeah, but you know what though, I don't think they actually like it because they've they've had to try to kind of like in the way that like we don't like vegemite, but like the Australians love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:07

Oh, did pee?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:08

Huh?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:08

I thought that was a part of the human experience, loving peanut butter.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:11

A lot of people don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:13

Teddy doesn't even like peanut butter.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:15

Oh, you lose instantly. Wow, that's wild. Maybe that's usually that's our vehicle for pills for our dogs. Peanut butter.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:23

Yeah, right? It's easy, it's an easy uh easy sell.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:27

I think also the reason why that they're so nice in that show is because of how the producers edit it. They don't they don't create the narrative of someone's the snake, someone's the drama queen, someone's the this, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:38

That is 100% the case.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:40

Well, they like they literally go behind the scenes and they're like, yeah, so uh Susan called you a bitch. I know what are you gonna do about that? She said that your creme brulee tasted like ass. I would I I would take her sugar and switch it with salt. Yeah, but that's just made.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:00

The best part about the Great British Bake Off contestants is when they do they show a little backstory into their um, you know, their personal life. And they always have the cutest little niche hobbies, every one of them. I know. It's like, and Matilda loves to create miniature houses, and then she places them in the forest for passerbys to enjoy. I'm like, oh I mean like every every person is just darling.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:27

What if you like found out that all these were actually like fake backstories? Oh, I would be so betrayed. So betrayed. She's like, Matilda's actually like outbacking. She's like, what do you want?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:38

Matilda's a dominatrix.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:40

She's like actually from like New Jersey and like just like smokes packs of cigarettes every single day.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:45

I would have recognized the Jersey. She wouldn't have been able to fool me. Yeah, I would have I would have known.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:51

It makes me very hungry watching that show. I love that. I oh I um I don't think you could pay me to be on a reality TV show.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:01

No, not even one. I grew up I grew up watching like Survivor and like The Amazing Race, you know. And like if I had the opportunity to be on either one of those shows, like you'd do it. I would do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:10

You would do so well in the amazing race.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:12

Yeah. I think I would do really well. I have a really good sense of direction.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:16

And also you don't realize it, but while we're talking, he's made 18 bracelets with his feet. He just had like an octopus, so there's just things being made all the time. So what's yours, Richard? For uh the reality show.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:29

For what? Oh, reality show. Of course I would love to be on one of the housewives. Like my name. Just a guest who are like, or not even like just a friend of. So I can pop in, go to like the events with them, see the drama firsthand. But uh be the drama. Yes, start the drama. But uh used to watch the amazing race with my dad and sister. I would do that. That'd be fun.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:57

Yeah, I would definitely do that. Or even that show, like the Korean show, um Squid Games? No, uh where you die? Yeah. I mean, like in the game show that they have on Netflix, they're not killing the people.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:12

Oh, do they have a okay? I didn't know. I thought there was just the the show. No, no, no. This is an actual like real game show now.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:20

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:21

So what happens in the moments when in the real show you would have died? What you're just out? Just out. Mm-hmm. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:28

They cut off their their leg or something.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:31

It's minimal. Yeah. Just a minor. They pull out a fingernail. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:35

It has to make it realistic, you know. I mean, who wants to watch it if it's not?

SPEAKER_06 1:11:40

I'm like, why are they still breathing? That's not how this is all supposed to go. So I guess like one last thing that we can probably just kind of like close out with. Um, I would love to know, like, you know, what is your what does like gratitude mean to you? You know, is it we talked so much about so like our life and our journey and how you've kind of come from like point A to point B, and you talked about like your your Instagram page and how that brings other people joy, which is beautiful. I want to know like what you know, what does gratitude really mean to you? Like, how do you live in a state of gratitude on a daily basis?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:16

Well, I would be lying if I said I did. Uh I definitely do not. Um it's real life, you know. Yeah, I I I try my hardest to remember how much I have to be grateful for because there is so much in my life. My husband, my dogs, my family, my parents, my siblings. You know, like there's a lot of great my friends, there's a lot of great things in my life. So I try to stay present to that. Um, I'm also, I think ultimately the thing I'm the most grateful for is my sobriety. That's something else that's like a really huge one for me. And obviously, in sobriety, gratitude is a huge part of that. So I try to kind of I get a good reminder of being grateful through that. My um what gratitude means to me, I guess, is just being present to the blessings in your life, whatever they may be. Whether that's like walking into Starbucks and they happen to have my peppermint mocha or pistachio. Or yes, or pistachio. Or, you know, going to um you know, just being able to spend, I just spent some time in Arizona with my parents, and like that made me very happy.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:29

So yeah. So it's like this what I'm gathering is like it's a small moment, you know, it's the little things. It's not necessarily like the big, you know, careers and the big, you know, the money, the house, the cars, it's not the materialistic things, it's the time that you spend with loved ones. It's you know, waking up in the morning and your dog or your son or your daughter like come and like give you a hug and say like good morning, you know. It's like the little things that kind of like drive a lot of us in a lot of different ways. It's Teddy running up and jumping on my lap, you know. It's like those things are cute, you know, and I and I love those. And I get it. I get it.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:04

Yeah. That's very good. That's a that's a that's a very nice way of putting it. And I think that you know, everyone thinks that the money and all of that stuff is, and I don't get me wrong, if somebody decided to hand me like, you know, a couple million dollars today, I wouldn't turn it down.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:20

Yeah, I'd be very, I would very gratefully. I'd be very grateful. Yeah, and I would gratefully accept.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:25

If anybody out there wants to give me a million dollars, I'd be very grateful.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:29

My Venmo is.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:31

Hopefully by the time this airs, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:35

So uh yeah, but I think that's that that ultimately at the end of the day, and I've witnessed this firsthand, money is not that's is not the thing that brings people happiness. No. I've known a lot of very unhappy, very wealthy people, and I've known a lot of very happy, not so wealthy people. Um, and uh, you know, I think it's it is because ultimately like our life's journey, I believe, is to do with love. Some somehow love is a big is the main core, I believe, as to why we are here. And that's not something money and inan inanimate objects can't provide that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:10

Right. Unless, of course, you do use money as a way to uh like abundance is for giving. Yes. Um, my partner and I always talk about like when people want money for the right reasons or like when wealth is in the is in good hands. Yeah, you know, and I'm like, oh actually, I very much want to be wealthy myself. Like I would very much want to be wealthy. And immediately there would be scholarship funds set up. There would be like sanctuary setup. Yeah, yeah, right away. And I would be left with nothing and I'd be so happy. And on my deathbed, I would not be like, I just wish I made X thousand more. You know, on my deathbed, I'd probably remember, you know, the the the sound of uh a friend's laugh or something. Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:52

Yeah, or the people that you meet smile.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:55

That is uh, you know, I always think I I find that when you ask somebody what they would do if they won the lottery, most people you ask, they immediately go to talking about the people that they would give money to in their life. And that to me is I think that speaks volumes because ultimately at our core, I think there's uh there's a goodness there that that's our knee-jerk reaction. And it does genuinely like when I think about it, I'm like, if I won the lottery, I would give my parents this much, and I would give my siblings this much, and you know, blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:28

What's interesting is I buy a house, I buy a boat, do those things. I would spend it all and leave nothing to nobody else. Just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:36

It's interesting that you said that basically you think happiness uh comes down to love, and you have built your life in the industry that is about love and romance. Like you are in bridal. That is a huge lifetime celebration of love at its at its most grandiose way. So, yeah, I don't think it's a coincidence that um, you know, love is your purpose for happiness, and you've found a way to build a life with about love. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:08

I love that. I love love that.

unknown 1:17:10

I love love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:11

I love love it too.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:13

Well, on that note, thank you so much for joining us, and thank you so much for being here, Keith. Thank you. And we look forward to having you again in the future. Thank you. Thank you guys.