KLP Chat: Inside Book Hero, a Fast-Growing NZ Bookstore with Lizzy Lockhart

Are bookshops dead? Hardly! One business in Auckland that has experienced exponential growth has shown quite the opposite.

Lizzy Lockhart, “Bookshop Hero” at the fast-growing independent online (and physical) bookshop Book Hero, shares the secrets behind this small business' success. And they've achieved this during a time where retail is tricky and reading is declining. Or is it?

Book Hero is seeing quite the opposite - reading is fast becoming people's salvation ...

In this fascinating look inside Book Hero, a New Zealand book retailer and online store founded in October 2024 by Dylan Bland and Tim Wackrow, Lizzy shares how Dylan and Tim blended their e-commerce strengths with their passion for reading to create an online book retailer with big visions. They quickly expanded into a Hobsonville destination shop, driven by strong community demand.

Book Hero prioritises physical books, a personal customer experience, and rapid delivery, expanding from an online warehouse to a community-supported retail space in Hobsonville and a team of 15+ people. 

Lizzy shares her work across the bookshop, social media, newsletters, events, and author visits, crediting the team’s customer-first approach, fast shipping, and visibility through their rapidly-growing social media account.

We also hear about Lizzy's lifelong love of reading, her background as a primary teacher and Auckland Zoo educator, and her advocacy for reading for pleasure. The conversation also covers Book Hero’s growth into schools and libraries, adding toys and launching Toy Hero, as well as their notable author events.

Shara and Lizzy share parenting reflections on emotional regulation and using books as support tools. And we finish off with some of Lizzy's book recommendations.

It's a jam-packed episode about community, belief, and the revival of books as a haven. Music to our ears!

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LINKS >>>>>

Book Hero Website

Book Hero on Instagram - @bookheronz

Lizzy Lockhart on Instagram - @peppermintpagesnz

MENTIONS >>>>>

Graci Kim - Slinger Duology (MG)

Claire Mabey - Raven’s Eye series (MG) and Cass and the Beast (PB)

Daniel Devenney - Counting Down with Theodore Brown (YA)

Nathan Wallis - What Were You Thinking? (ADULT)

Dr. Billy Garvey - 10 Things I Wish You Knew About Your Child’s Mental Health (and the Pop Culture Parenting podcast) (ADULT)

Sam Smith (illustrated by César Lador) - Miles and Jones series (JF/early MG)

Lily Emo - B is for Bird, and The Boy Who Made Things Up (author Margaret Mahy) (PB)

Sacha Cotter (illustrated by Josh Morgan) - A Guide to Rocks (PB)

Patrice Karst (illustrated by Joanne Lew-Vriethoff) - The Invisible String and The Invisible String Backpack (PB)

Karin Slaughter - The Secrets We Hide (ADULT)

Asher Emanuel - The Valley (ADULT)

Don’t Forget to Smile - Ariane Beeston (YA)

Rachael King (illustrated by Phoebe Morris) - Violet and the Velvets (MG)

C G Drews - Hazelthorn (YA)

Adam Simpson (illustrated by Gypsy Taylor) - Row, Row, Row Your Boat (with Monsters) (PB)

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Follow The KidLit Pod  on Instagram (@thekidlitpod)

Find out more about The KidLit Pod host, Shara Curlett, here:

Shara Curlett on Instagram (@sharacurlett)

Shara Curlett Website (www.sharacurlett.com)

Transcript

[00:00:00] Shara Curlett: Welcome to The KidLit Pod, a collective industry-wide discussion of people who are creating, sharing, discussing, and celebrating books, all with the hopes of capturing children's hearts and minds. 

I'm Shara Curlett, your host and author of two middle grade novels: Welcome to Miracle, released in 2025, and Protector of Beyond, the first book in an upcoming fantasy series with Penguin Australia, set for release September 2026.

Now, today I have a real treat for you. I'm speaking with Lizzy Lockhart from Book Hero. Book Hero is an independent online bookstore based in Auckland that is very, very fast-growing. They believe books are a secret superpower, and they're on a mission to help more New Zealanders rediscover a love for books and reading. Book Hero is a bookstore run by technology people, so they've tried Kindles, iPads, and everything in between. But they believe nothing comes close to a physical book.

That new book smell, the feel of the paper between your fingers, the conversations that great books spark when they're proudly displayed on a bookshelf. And in the modern age of screen addiction and shortened attention spans, books are a timely reminder of the peace and joy that can be found simply by slowing down and engaging the power of our own imaginations.

The team at Book Hero are a small group of passionate and creative friends who have come together to create a new way for Kiwis to buy books in an online environment. They all love books and reading, but each of them brings a unique skill set from title selection, software development, online marketing, social media, warehouse logistics, and customer service. They're a unique bunch of booksellers, and they love discovering what they can achieve together for their customers. 

So here we go, our chat with bookshop hero, Lizzy Lockhart

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[00:01:45] Shara Curlett: So welcome Lizzy Lockhart to The KidLit Pod. It's so great to have you here.

[00:01:50] Lizzy Lockhart: Thank you, Shara. It's so nice to be here. Thanks for inviting us on. 

[00:01:53] Shara Curlett: Now, you are the Bookshop Hero at Book Hero, and First of all, I have to say the branding is amazing. I love the hero kind of brand that you guys are running with. It's awesome. 

[00:02:03] Lizzy Lockhart: Thank you. 

[00:02:04] Shara Curlett: Can you tell me a bit about what you do?

[00:02:06] Lizzy Lockhart: Yes, so I kind of started as a Christmas casual, while doing another full-time job, and during Christmas our bookshop really took off in terms of lots of people coming in to buy books, and before then we hadn't really had a full-time person looking after the bookshop because it ... We weren't even sure if people would wanna come and browse in store.

And until that point we were primarily online. But the local community really accepted us during that Christmas period, and hasn't really slowed down since. So after Christmas there was a really clear signal that we needed a full-time bookshop person looking after that space. And so I just kind of snuck my way into Book Hero, which I'd been trying to do for, like, a year at that point. I think I remember when they first started, I reached out and was like, "I'm only working part-time, I'm a mum, but I just wanna be involved somehow." So yeah, managed to sneak my way in. But yeah, as well as doing the bookshop side of things, which is a delight, I also get to help with a lot of the social media content that we do, and then helping out with creating blog content and stuff for our newsletters to keep it fresh and interesting for people.

And then the other thing we love doing, as much as we can, and we're a bit limited by space, but we love holding kind of bookish events and author events, and so I also get to be involved with those, which is really good. 

[00:03:09] Shara Curlett: Well, I've been watching from afar for a while now. You're not too far away from me in Auckland. And I think it's your social media that has captured me the most.

[00:03:18] Lizzy Lockhart: It's all- Yeah ... Sasha is one of the amazing team. She's kind of the mastermind behind the social media and we just get to do her bidding. But I'm a big part of ... Like, I love Bookstagram and that kind of bookish community online. And so I think what Book Hero has done is really hook into the fact that there are people out there wanting to talk about books and connect. So yeah, it's definitely something that I think has helped us a lot with visibility.

[00:03:38] Shara Curlett: it's really virally good, like, in the way that it comes across in the feed she's done a great job of kinda hooking you in. It gets me every time. I'm like, "Oh, I wanna know" and so I'm- 

[00:03:49] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah ... 

[00:03:50] Shara Curlett: -swipe across. That's been a huge part of the visible branding that you putting out there- Mm and just being more than just a bookshop. 

[00:03:57] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, we try to ... we've just crossed over recently 15,000 followers, which is wild. And I think one of the things that's helped is all the bookish news. 

[00:04:05] Shara Curlett: Mm. 

[00:04:05] Lizzy Lockhart: And Sasha is ... I mean, we all kinda help, but Sasha is again the kind of mastermind behind staying up to date with every kind of bookish update that's going on out there. And people think books are dead, but I mean, every week we have, like, a full news post and a full books to screen post, and we're never short on content, so. 

[00:04:23] Shara Curlett: I feel like we all need a Sasha in our lives just to - 

[00:04:25] Lizzy Lockhart: Yes ... We do. 

[00:04:27] Shara Curlett: Now, I always start off this podcast with learning about my guests' childhoods. And I love hearing about your creativity when you're a kid and what kind of lead you to get into this bookish world. 

[00:04:39] Lizzy Lockhart: Mm. I mean, books I think have been a part of my life since I can remember. So, my dad used to read me a story like every single night, and I think for a while he was just reading me the books that he wanted to read. So I remember him reading like weird sci-fi that was not for children. But he would just kind of sit down and read me a chapter of his book so that he could keep enjoying his story. But then we'd read things like The Hobbit many times. And then I still remember the first chapter book that I read by [00:05:00] myself, and I was so proud. It was Fantastic Mr. Fox, and I now have like a little Fantastic Mr. Fox tattoo to kind of, um- 

[00:05:06] Shara Curlett: Aw ... 

[00:05:06] Lizzy Lockhart: -to remember that, that little moment. But yeah, I think from that point on, in every family photo I've got like a book in my hand. And I ... The number of times I like nearly got run over 'cause I'd be like walking home from school with like a book, trying to read at the same time. so I think, yeah, it started early, the fear of not having enough time to read all the books that I want to read. 

[00:05:22] Lizzy Lockhart: And that continues to this day. And I think it comes from being like a real book-loving family. So like my, my dad loves books.

[00:05:28] Lizzy Lockhart: My grandma loved books. I remember going to her house and there were just bookshelves in every room. and so I think, yeah, just being surrounded with those things has always felt really special to me. and until kinda getting a job in the book industry, it's really funny how it just becomes, like, I think at some points my friends have been a bit concerned with how much I, I read. But it's like my one skill is being able to really like get lost in books and, and I'm a fairly fast reader. So it's nice to finally have a job where that like feels useful in some way. 

[00:05:53] Shara Curlett: Yeah. 

[00:05:54] Lizzy Lockhart: But yeah, I think books for me were like a bit of an escape as a child. And I always wanted to be a writer when I was a child too, so I think writing and reading always kind of go hand in hand. 

[00:06:02] Shara Curlett: Yeah. Absolutely. And- you- ended up in an education career, is that correct? 

[00:06:06] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah. Yeah So when I was five, I think, I'm sure I've got a photo of it wrapped up, but I remember for Christmas I got given one of those old kids' blackboards and I would put all my toys out and pretend to be, like, a teacher. And then got through, I think I must have been around 30 and I went back to retrain as a primary school teacher, and absolutely loved it. Found it challenging in lots of ways, too, in terms of the workload and all the other stuff that teachers have to deal with.

But the actual part of being in the classroom and trying to support kids with learning to love reading and learning to love learning, felt like such a privilege. Because I think sometimes we get so caught up in making sure kids are learning lots and ticking the boxes that we forget that the most important part is just getting them to love books.

[00:06:45] Shara Curlett: Mm. 

[00:06:46] Lizzy Lockhart: And so I think I, I took that role very seriously. And, yeah, it was, it was just a really important part of my life. And then I moved a bit far away from my school, so eventually did a year of commuting far too far, and then had to leave, and was going to look to move to another school.

[00:06:59] Lizzy Lockhart: But an education role at Auckland Zoo popped up on my Facebook And I was like, "This is such a weird thing," because, I mean, I love teaching, but I love animals and conservation. And so I applied for it on like, the off chance and ended up working for the education team for a few years.

[00:07:14] Shara Curlett: Wow. 

[00:07:14] Lizzy Lockhart: And that was also just a real ... I just feel like I keep falling into these dream jobs where I feel like my childhood self would be so stoked with all the little things we've got to do so far. 

[00:07:23] Shara Curlett: That sounds amazing at the zoo. Mm. What did you do there? 

[00:07:25] Lizzy Lockhart: So we would look after all of the school groups that were coming in and Again, it was kind of about hooking them in. 'Cause what I found when I was teaching, as well as trying to get them to love reading, I also wanted to have kids, you know, be part of a community of learners that loved the planet. And so I, what I found was that it was really hard to get kids to care about sustainability and care about conservation when they hadn't actually been out to the beach much- Mm or hadn't spent much time in nature and hadn't seen the animals that we're trying to get them to worry about. And so then when I went to the zoo, there was this really nice progression of being able to have those moments of connection and wonder, getting a kid to like, stand up in front of an orangutan and really see that kind of similarity that they had or watch them and laugh at the baby you know, causing chaos for its mum, which was very relatable. And so, being able to play that role at the zoo was really important to me because then I knew it kind of fed in, back into the classroom where teachers could then take those moments and build global citizens that actually cared about the world that we've got. 

[00:08:18] Shara Curlett: Mm. 

[00:08:19] Lizzy Lockhart: Um, so yeah, it was a really, a wonderful place to work.

[00:08:22] Shara Curlett: And just having the background as a teacher, you would've naturally fallen into that role, right? 

[00:08:27] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah. We had a really nice team because we had a mixture of people who had come from high school teaching and primary school teaching, and then we had people who had come from more, like, field work. And so together we were a team of eight educators, and there was just a really nice cross-pollination I think of being able to support each other with creating these really strong education sessions at the zoo. So yeah, highly recommend if anyone out there's looking for a great school visit, go to the zoo.

[00:08:48] Shara Curlett: Yeah. My daughter actually, she can't wait till she's old enough to be one of those zoo, um- Oh, 

[00:08:53] Lizzy Lockhart: the Tuatara Club? 

[00:08:55] Shara Curlett: Oh, is it the Zookeeper For a Day? 

[00:08:58] Lizzy Lockhart: Oh, yes. Yep, I think it is that.

[00:08:59] Shara Curlett:  Yeah. But now that you've mentioned that club, I'm pretty sure she'll like that. We've got a lizard at home and she's obsessed- Oh with lizards. I didn't even know about that club. 

[00:09:08] Lizzy Lockhart: Well, the Tuatara Club is like their volunteer program for teenagers. Oh. So it's kind of to introduce kids to the idea of taking part in a volunteer setting, but it's specifically set up for younger kids. So all the young kids are kind of working together and it, it's a really cool program. I think it might start when they're 14. But yeah, great for animal lovers. 

[00:09:24] Shara Curlett: Yeah. I'll have to mention that to her. 

[00:09:26] Lizzy Lockhart: What kind of lizard do you have? 

[00:09:27] Shara Curlett: We have a bearded dragon. 

[00:09:29] Lizzy Lockhart: Oh, I love bearded dragons. Yeah. We had a bearded dragon in our office at the zoo called Jim. 

[00:09:33] Shara Curlett: Oh, did you? 

[00:09:34] Lizzy Lockhart: He was very sassy.

[00:09:36] Shara Curlett: They're quite judgy, aren't they? They just like- 

[00:09:38] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah ... 

[00:09:38] Shara Curlett: -sit there and stare at you and as if to say- Yeah ... "What are you doing now?" 

[00:09:43] Lizzy Lockhart: Exactly. And you'd like look at him the wrong way, and he'd like go black. And we'd say, "Oh, sorry, Jim." 

[00:09:47] Shara Curlett: Ours is named Willow, and she's, uh- Oh ... she's still adjusting. She's not even two yet, so you know, not an adult, but- we'll get there. But my daughter has dreams of putting her in a harness and walking her around and 

[00:09:59] Lizzy Lockhart: Love that. I feel like I'd get along with your daughter. I think you would. Yeah. 

[00:10:03] Shara Curlett: So Book Hero for me, it, seemed to come out of nowhere. When did it first start up? 

[00:10:08] Lizzy Lockhart: So Book Hero first started in October 2024, so we've been going ... It'll be two years this October. And yeah, it was quite a funny thing, 'cause I remember, when it first started up, my husband bought me a book from Book Hero for Christmas, and I was like, "What is this company? I've never heard of them before." But all of a sudden I feel like it's really had exponential growth. 

[00:10:25] Shara Curlett: Mm. 

[00:10:26] Lizzy Lockhart: but we're still reaching new people every day, which is cool. 

[00:10:28] Shara Curlett: It does feel like it has been growing quite fast for a bookstore, and in a time when they say it's hard to keep a bookstore open, let alone start one. What do you think inspired them to get into this area? 

[00:10:41] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, so our two founders, Tim and Dylan, they both have a real long history in e-commerce and building amazing websites and great online shopping experiences, and it was Dylan really who was kind of sitting there looking for something to do, and thinking about his love of books and wanting to get books in the hands of more people. So, he kind of reached out to Tim, who was his friend, and was like, "Should we just start this business?" And then as they tend to do, they just kind of create magic out of their skills and- At the start it was really just the two of them and then some of their friends kind of helping out.

And now we're at a team that's over 15 people. I think even way more than 15. But, So yeah, it kind of started because they saw a gap in the market of a good online book retailer here in New Zealand, because obviously a lot of people were buying books from Book Depository back in the day.

[00:11:26] Shara Curlett: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:26] Lizzy Lockhart: And then now there's Amazon obviously gets a lot of the online book purchases, and so they wanted to find something local that could support the local community and have jobs for local Hobsonville people, and people in Auckland. and just try and find ways to make books more affordable, because I think it was all about trying to, yeah, just get books to more people so that reading could keep growing and- 

[00:11:44] Shara Curlett: Mm.

[00:11:45] Lizzy Lockhart: -Have more readers around. 

[00:11:46] Shara Curlett: Yeah. And I love the cool little ambassador. Sitting behind you. So for our listeners, behind Lizzy is a Book Hero character.

[00:11:54] Lizzy Lockhart: Yes, so that is Page. I think there's even a photo on one of our, like, really early blog posts of the initial kind of idea for a character that Dylan had. But he's got an amazing friend who does a lot of our design and drawing. So, Page has kind of become our little mascot, and we have, like, coloring sheets with Page on them that we have out on the table in our bookshop. We love the idea of books being a superpower and so yeah, that's kind of where Page came from.

[00:12:18] Shara Curlett: Oh, wow. Dylan and his partner, they could have just started an online store because that seems the safest approach these days. Like a bricks and mortar building- Mm-hmm ... comes with risks. So I'm so fascinated by why they decided to go into retail as well, and also how it's supporting online.

[00:12:35] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, I think so when they started we were in a different location to where we are now, and it it was really just the warehouse with a little pickup counter. And even then I think the thing that surprised them was how quickly the local community wanted to come in, pick up the books, see who they were buying them from, and already they very quickly started to get kind of regular customers from Hobsonville and the local kind of area that were really keen to support a new book business.

[00:12:57] Shara Curlett: Mm. 

[00:12:58] Lizzy Lockhart: And so I think it's thanks to those kind of [00:13:00] early customers that the idea of having a bit more space for people to come and browse and stuff, I think that's where that came from. And I think they did always kind of want a bookshop, but whether it was gonna be feasible was kind of a question.

[00:13:11] Shara Curlett: Mm. 

[00:13:11] Lizzy Lockhart: Um, and so when they moved to their second location because they very quickly kind of ran out of room for books, there was more room for a retail space. And again, they set up this beautiful space, and they weren't sure whether it would just be a pickup location or whether people would actually start to make it feel like a bookshop.

[00:13:27] Shara Curlett: Mm. 

[00:13:28] Lizzy Lockhart: and so I think Christmas was probably the turning point where like I sort of joined the team on a casual basis at Christmas to help out because obviously things ramp up, and the bookshop was suddenly becoming a spot where people were wanting to come and have a look at the books before they bought them for people, come and ask someone for recommendations, and get ideas for what to buy someone in their life for Christmas.

[00:13:46] Lizzy Lockhart: And then it kind of just didn't slow down, so after Christmas normally you see a big drop, and our bookshop just kind of continued to grow. And I think the more that the local community found out about us, we just ... we have so many families who come in once a week to kind of just come, the kids sit down at the table to draw, the parents have a browse, they pick up a new book to take home. And it's been such a, I think such a treasured part of the business to have these local people really accept us as part of Hobsonville. And, on our local community Facebook group there's just always people helping to promote us without us even asking them to, which is so nice.

So I think the online side of things, I think having the physical space adds an element of who we are to the online business. It gives us a bit more reliability and helps people to trust this new kind of online business that's sort of not just up there on the internet but also has a physical presence. And you know, like especially thinking about kids books, I'm someone who I don't know if I would ever buy a picture book without being able to have a flick through it first, you know? Like- you just have no idea when you're shopping online with certain categories of books what you're looking at.

[00:14:43] Lizzy Lockhart: So I think especially with what we've found is that the kind of kids books has been really popular, especially on weekends. Like the shop is just full of families coming in to browse and grandparents coming in to choose books for their grandkids. And, so yeah, I think it's both surprised the team and not surprised them how much it's grown in the time that we've had it. And we're really excited to keep on seeing where we can go with the physical space and how we can continue to support online.

And then also, I mean, you've got us, like we wouldn't be able to have our physical space without all of our online customers as well because- Yeah ... physical retail is obviously not the most efficient and we can ship out a lot more orders from our warehouse than we can serve customers at a desk in the bookshops. So, I think having both really gives us that little bit of extra flexibility to kind of experiment and see what works. 

[00:15:27] Shara Curlett: Yeah. And I feel like we really needed a Booktopia of New Zealand. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I feel like that's what you guys are becoming. 

[00:15:34] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah. I think the, I mean, the warehouse team here are incredible, and I think the level of trust that like I we- I saw a post on Reddit the other day that was like kind of suspicious about our good reviews online. They were like, "I don't know what's going on, but this company has only been open a couple of years, and it's got like 2,000 good reviews." And like, "Who are they paying?" Um, I think it's just that Dylan and Tim come from a background of really putting the customer first, and so online that [00:16:00] translates to a really reliable experience of getting your book quickly and not having to wait weeks and weeks- 

[00:16:04] Shara Curlett: Yeah ... 

[00:16:04] Lizzy Lockhart: -for books that are in stock here in our warehouse. So yeah, that kind of really has helped us grow as quickly as we have because people are always really, I think, just surprised to have a book turn up the next day that they ordered online.

[00:16:14] Shara Curlett: Yeah, and you are super fast, I have to say. Yeah. Like I've ordered from you before, and I'm really surprised at how fast it arrives. 

[00:16:22] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah. Pretty speedy. 

[00:16:23] Shara Curlett: And also, I think it's just, it's really nice to have the people behind the company ... and I think that's part of why it comes across as so genuine. Like it feels- You may not all be family members, but it feels like a family company. It feels like real people who are actually going to respond to your queries, rather than an automated system purely out there for profit. Like it just- it's got the vibe. And I understand now why people come to you in the, the physical retail space because they're probably coming as much to see you as everything else.

[00:16:57] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, I mean, that's such a combination of Sasha's social media side of things of, really trying to make the people behind the business visible. And even things like, you know, sharing videos of the warehouse kind of packing orders- Yeah ... just like, I mean, it's just fascinating as well to see how that kind of side of things works.

[00:17:13] Shara Curlett: Yeah. 

[00:17:14] Lizzy Lockhart: but yeah, I think we are a really special team. We're like, we're just a bunch of people who love books and love toys and it's been really nice getting kind of folded into a team that does feel really close. And I think it, you know, for such a long time it was such a small team, and I think it still feels like that even though we've grown quite a lot. It, it still has that feeling. 

[00:17:29] Shara Curlett: And so let's talk about the growth that you've experienced. Mm-hmm. So what kind of stats can you share about how you've grown? 

[00:17:36] Lizzy Lockhart: Some of the growth that we've seen is definitely in the kind of kids in schools area. So we have got someone now on the team whose full-time role it is to support schools and school librarians. 

[00:17:44] Shara Curlett: Oh, 

[00:17:46] Lizzy Lockhart: amazing. And so that's been a whole new area that has been really amazing. And, there's a local teacher from the school up the road that, like, pops down once a week to pick up new books for her teachers. And so that's been a really nice little thing that's developed this year. Our level of orders have just continued to grow month on month. And I mean, winter is generally a really quiet time for book selling. But we have been struggling to keep up, so I think we d- do not take any of those orders for granted. I think part of it is because we've grown, not just in terms of the books that we sell, which continues to kind of increase in terms of the books that are available, but also because we have got other categories that have kind of been added in and sit alongside books. And so that kind of, I think, also helps provide that little bit of extra support. and so we've got Tim the Toy Man, who joined the team, uh, earlier this year, and he is a big lover of toys. And so he's kind of really led to finding toys that match with encouraging childhood creativity and learning and supporting kids in those ways.

Also adults. You'd be surprised how many adults love a toy. and then we've got ... like, our bookshop has been a really big signal of growth in terms of going from getting maybe 10 customers a day buying books as well as customers picking up books, to now getting, like, to having a day that's just full of people, back to back coming in to make purchases. And yeah, I mean, we're already running out of space in our current warehouse. 

[00:18:58] Shara Curlett: Wow. 

[00:18:59] Lizzy Lockhart: Um, And so that's kind of our biggest challenge at the moment is just feeling constrained by physical space of what we can hold. 

[00:19:05] Shara Curlett: Yeah. 

[00:19:06] Lizzy Lockhart: Um, which is a good problem to have and one that we need to figure out before Christmas.

[00:19:10] Shara Curlett: I just wanna circle back to Tim the Toy Man. Yes. That is the best name ever. 

[00:19:14] Lizzy Lockhart: I mean, it helps 'cause we've got two Tims, so you've gotta have some kind of differentiation. Um, but Tim the Toy Man really lives up to it. He's got, like, a garage that's full of collectible toys and things. So he really ... As much as I live and breathe books, he lives and breathes toys.

[00:19:26] Shara Curlett: Oh my gosh. Has he been helping to pair the books with the toys that I've been seeing- Yeah ... in your social media? 

[00:19:32] Lizzy Lockhart: Oh, no, that was ... That's me. That's my love of- I'm, I'm obsessed with those, those little Palm Pals.  And I just had ... I had a day where I was just, like, needing a break from kind of my usual work, and I was like, "What if I could just find the perfect book?" And then it became, like, my whenever I needed a kind of chill out activity, I would just potter around with those.

[00:19:48] Shara Curlett: Oh, I love that. 

[00:19:49] Lizzy Lockhart: But yeah, he's kind of led to us connecting with some really great toy brands, like Hape and Melissa & Doug, and things that just do really beautiful, good-quality toys for kids and parents. I mean, At the same time, we're really conscious of wanting to keep Book Hero sort of special and focused on books. And so I don't know if you've seen, but we've just launched Toy Hero. 

[00:20:06] Shara Curlett: I did see. Yeah. That's so exciting. 

[00:20:09] Lizzy Lockhart: And so that's kind of part of wanting to honour toys and give them the space they deserve, but we also just wanna keep Book Hero special as well. So there'll be some overlap, but it's nice to have that differentiation, I think, rather than trying to squeeze them into the same brand. 

[00:20:20] Shara Curlett: Yeah. And will Toy Hero be a separate website? 

[00:20:23] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, so it'll have its own website. It won't have its own physical space at this stage, so we'll still just continue to fold in some of the best toys that we can into the bookshop.

[00:20:31] Lizzy Lockhart: But yeah, it will have its own website. 

[00:20:34] Shara Curlett: Oh, I love that. I've got a background in business, so I really- Oh ... appreciate and, admire when people think outside the box Yeah ... outside the toy box you could say. Yeah and think, "Hey, why not?" 

[00:20:47] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah. And just to help, I think, with that stability and flexibility as a business as well. I think it just sets us in good stead for the year ahead.

[00:20:56] Shara Curlett: And so in regards to your physical store, do you have [00:21:00] people who can help make recommendations to customers when they're looking for things and- 

[00:21:04] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, so there's three of us primarily who look after the bookshop. So if you've ever visited, you've probably run into either myself or Hannah or Eve. We all love books, and we all love recommending books. So, I mean, I've got a four-year-old, so I love being able to kind of shout out the latest kids' books that we've been reading on repeat. And then, yeah, we all really love a range of different types of books, so we can kind of like help each other by making sure that we know what other people in the team have been enjoying, and that gives us like a nice variety that's not just the books that we've been reading.

And it is funny how many people come in not knowing what they wanna buy, but just wanting to find something new. Like, there's so many local people who come in who had kind of not read anything for ages and have kind of rediscovered their love of reading, just because there's like a physical bookshop in the neighbourhood that they wanted to check out. So it's just so nice seeing, yeah, seeing re- reminders every day that books are still such an important part of so many people's lives. And helping to get books into more people's hands is great. And we've got so many kids who come in who love books, and I think [00:22:00] that's really reassuring to me to know that- Yeah there are still so many kids out there, wanting to come and pick up the latest book in their favourite series. 

[00:22:07] Shara Curlett: Yeah. I do feel like there's gonna be a return to books . I feel like devices have had their time, and everyone's starting to actually be like, "You know what? Let's return to a physical book and the enjoyment of reading." 

[00:22:17] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, exactly. I think it's like we're all looking for a way to sort of slow down- not be as lost in, And I think, yeah, that desire to go analog is not just something that adults are feeling. I remember I was working for Save the Children when I, um, came over to Book Hero, and I was going to schools to talk to them about what kind of things they were concerned about in terms of global issues. 

And there were a whole range, and I was really shocked that the one that would come out on top for these kind of intermediate aged kids was AI and technology. And I thought of everyone they would feel quite comfortable, 'cause they're kind of growing up with it. They probably know it better than I do. But even at the age of 13, they were feeling nervous about what it meant for them and their futures. And so I think, I think sometimes we forget that kids are also just seeking a respite from the online, you know, online world.

[00:22:57] Shara Curlett: Gosh, I can't even imagine having to worry about that at that age- That's- 

[00:23:02] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, like what your jobs are gonna look like. 

[00:23:03] Shara Curlett: Yeah, that's tough. I think the reassuring thing is that so many great children's books are coming out now. There are just so many. Yes. I'm across both the Australian and New Zealand industry, and I personally feel like- Each are going from strength to strength in regards to the quality of children's books that everyone's putting out. 

[00:23:22] Lizzy Lockhart: That is so true. I feel like I could stock the bookshop with only New Zealand children's authors and- Yeah still be squeezed for space. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I think there's so many amazing authors out there writing for kids nowadays, and I wish I had had that many options when I was younger. 

[00:23:35] Shara Curlett: And speaking of, you've had quite a few events recently, haven't you?

[00:23:39] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah. We've actually got one tomorrow, after the day we're recording. So we've got Graci Kim, who's actually a local Hobsonville author. And she has written the Slinger duology. So the first one's called Dreamslinger, and the one that came out this week is called Royalslinger. And so she's hosting kind of a launch party here at Book Hero, which will be really fun.

So we're busy setting up for that today. but yeah, we are quite lucky 'cause if ... Sometimes we do events, and then other times we get authors in to just come and sign books and tell us a bit about themselves so that we can share about them and connect people with the author behind it. So we had Claire Mabey, who writes the Raven's Eye Runaway and Raven's Eye Rebellion series.

[00:24:11] Lizzy Lockhart: And she's got a picture book coming out later this year, which I'm very excited about, called Cass and the Beast. And another amazing YA book that I read this year that we were lucky enough to get the author to come in was Daniel Devenney. And he wrote, Counting Down with Theodore Brown, which is like, I grew up loving John Green and Perks of Being a Wallflower, and this is, like, the book that I would give to any teenager who I feel is into those kind of books. This is just a wonderful YA story. 

[00:24:35] Shara Curlett: Oh, amazing.

-------------------------------------------------

BOOK SHOUTOUT - Counting Down with Theodore Brown

[00:24:36] Shara Curlett: I'm just jumping in to share a little bit about one of Lizzy's picks from Book Hero. It's called Counting Down With Theodore Brown by Daniel Devenney.

You can't fight time or love. This is a coming-of-age love story with a twist. When Theodore Brown looks into a person's eyes, he sees a number, the exact number of days he'll spend with them. It's hard to make friends when there's a literal countdown. He's kept everyone at a safe distance since his dad died. But now that he's in college, he fears he's missing out, Even his stuffy English professor thinks he needs to get a life. So to improve his mental health and sharpen his writing skills, he decides to do just that.

Then Lil Sanchez crashes into his world like a tidal wave. She's fearless, creative, and only around until the end of summer. But Theo wonders if the pleasure of knowing her might be worth the pain of losing her. Only time will tell, and the clock is ticking.

This YA novel is for teens who love a book you just can't put down and have to read all night, a love story that will last the ages, stories that are dramatic and funny and sad all wrapped up in one great package, and books like The Perks of Being a Wallflower.

Lizzy says, "I absolutely adored every page of this novel about Theodore Brown, a 19-year-old navigating the challenges of love and life, mental health, and friendships. This book is perfect if, like me, you love John Green's coming-of-age stories or if Perks of Being a Wallflower made you feel seen unlike anything else. It's life-affirming, full of lovable characters and great lines that had me laughing out loud."

Counting Down with Theodore Brown by Daniel Devenney is a journey you won't forget. And it's available now from your favorite bookstore or from Book Hero online

Now, back to our chat with Lockhart.

-------------------------------------------------

[00:26:25] Shara Curlett: And you recently had Nathan Wallis come in and sign a bunch of books, didn't you? 

[00:26:28] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, we'd had so many pre-orders for his book about kind of parenting and brain development. And I think it shows that parents are still looking for that kind of, those books that will help to give them support and advice. And he was so ... After speaking with him, you can really see why people are willing to take his advice on board, 'cause he just, he started really early with kids, and he is- Mm ... clearly an expert. So yeah, I think there's a lot of amazing New Zealand authors out there trying to do good things. And there's also an Australian author, he's part of like a parenting podcast you might have listened to called, Pop Culture Parenting. 

[00:26:56] Shara Curlett: Oh, yes. 

[00:26:58] Lizzy Lockhart: And one of the guys from that podcast has written a book called 10 Things I Wish You Knew About Your Child's Mental Health. I feel like those two books for some reason in my head kind of sit up there, like top tier- Yeah um, every parent should read. 

[00:27:08] Shara Curlett: I'm gonna look that one up because- Mm ... uh, I was looking at Nathan Wallis' one, What Were You Thinking? And I was like, "Oh, that's a bit of me." 

[00:27:14] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, I think what's cool about Nathan Wallis' one is it's great for parents, but I think even if you're not a parent it will help you understand your own brain better- Mm and find ways to kind of help with your own regulation and I think anyone would enjoy it. 

[00:27:26] Shara Curlett: Yeah. I think one of the biggest things I've learned as a parent is, because I've done a lot of research in regards to the brain and, um- Yeah ... the the neuro side of things, I think the biggest thing I've learned is actually it's our reactions that- Yes determine how our kids react. 

[00:27:42] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah. 

[00:27:43] Shara Curlett: And it's almost like you can see it play out. Obviously you have your moments where you're dysregulated and then the children kind of feed off that. And you just need the space and time to get yourself regulated again. But often- the more I stay calm in a situation, The more my children stay calm as well. It's quite incredible how much of a mirror we are to them. 

[00:28:04] Lizzy Lockhart: Absolutely. I had the funniest thing happen, must've been on Wednesday, where I obviously was just being a little bit shorter with my, or, like, a little bit less patient with my daughter than usual. She's like, "Mommy, have you eaten today?" And I was like, "What do you mean?" And she's like, "You just sound a bit hangry." She's four. 

[00:28:21] Shara Curlett: Wow. 

[00:28:22] Lizzy Lockhart: But she clearly knows me well. 

[00:28:24] Shara Curlett: Yeah. Just little reminders, and often it's that little circuit breaker, right? 

[00:28:29] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah. And it's so funny, 'cause I mean, I used to teach, like, 30 kids, and I would not have the same issues with self-regulation. Like, I found it a lot easier to kind of hold space for 30 kids and their various emotional needs.

[00:28:40] Shara Curlett: Oh, interesting.

[00:28:42] Lizzy Lockhart: But it's so different with your own child. Like, I don't know what it is about that, like you say, that kind of mirror that comes up, and you know what I think has been the biggest resource for me as a parent is Bluey. I feel like Bluey, Bluey like-

[00:28:49] Shara Curlett: Oh, I love Bluey ...

[00:28:50] Lizzy Lockhart: -has taught me how to be a better parent. And I feel like my daughter has kind of cottoned on to how much I love Bluey, that now she doesn't wanna watch Bluey 'cause it's more like my show than her show. But we love ... Like, we've got all the Bluey books at home, and I just feel like they've taught me how to be like a parent that embraces fun and curiosity, and kind of stays open to letting kids lead in a way that, yeah, I just think it's such an important resource for parents.

[00:29:09] Shara Curlett: Ah, yeah. I can't say enough good things about Bluey. Yes. The way that they can tell such a great story within such a short amount of time- Yeah ... and in so few words as well. It's like a master class in storytelling. 

[00:29:21] Lizzy Lockhart: It really is. 100%. 

[00:29:22] Shara Curlett: I think the thing I love most about it is like, just fun. Like, I think fun- Yeah ... should be at the core of childhood. 

[00:29:29] Lizzy Lockhart: Yes, exactly. I found it really interesting lately. We recently in the bookshop introduced like a graphic novel, like kind of tried to have more graphic novels out for kids because we noticed that, you know, like a lot of kids come in wanting- Mm ... find them. And what I didn't anticipate was how the response from the adults would be, where often they'll come in wanting their child to choose a book, and they're like, "But not a one with pictures. You've gotta choose one with just words." Mm. And it's so interesting to me, 'cause I think it's easy to forget that just to have a kid that wants to come in and choose a book is- Yeah ... is a treasure. Whether that's a graphic novel or a novel, I think we forget that both of those are such valid forms of like storytelling, and still involve all the same skills of comprehension and decoding that a normal novel would have.

But yeah, it just took me by surprise 'cause I hadn't expected that. I think as parents sometimes we're just worried about making sure our kids are smart enough, and doing well enough, and, and are reading the same books that everyone else is reading, and not falling behind. And I think you're right, focusing on just kids who enjoy life and have fun is such, such a valid point.

[00:30:22] Shara Curlett: Yeah. And coming back to your point around reading should be fun- and if you're there to choose a book, I feel like parents shouldn't comment at all. Yeah. I mean, obviously there are some exceptions- 

[00:30:33] Lizzy Lockhart: Yes. ... 

[00:30:34] Shara Curlett: but, I mean- 

[00:30:35] Lizzy Lockhart: Keep out of the spicy hockey romance section. 

[00:30:38] Shara Curlett: But I can't say enough good things about graphic novels. There are some people who don't feel positively about them, but from my point of view they're keeping kids reading at the moment. 

[00:30:48] Lizzy Lockhart: Exactly. 

[00:30:48] Shara Curlett: There are a bunch of kids who can't ... They've got their own challenges with reading and they feel like they can't achieve like the other kids because they can't read in the same way as the other kids. However, when you give them a graphic novel, as you said, they can decode it. They can understand- Yeah ... the meaning behind the words, the comprehension. Yes. And it gives them that sense of achievement and enjoyment over reading, which is- Yeah ... I think that's should be the primary focus. 

[00:31:12] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, 100%. And I mean, I know so many adults who come in who are buying primarily manga, and it's the same as adults now who listen to audiobooks. I think it, like, doesn't really matter how we're consuming stories. I think it's just important that we all engage with other people's lives through storytelling, whether that's audio or, or graphic novels or story, you know, novels. Such an important thing for everyone to be doing. 

[00:31:33] Shara Curlett: Yeah, absolutely. And I just think of when I was a kid and I used to read the same things over and over repeatedly. Yes. Like, there's a lot of comment on- Same ... "Oh, why are you reading Dog Man for the 50th time?" Yes. But actually it's that comfort, right? The sense of safe comfort reads that they know it and it makes them feel happy. 

[00:31:52] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, exactly.

[00:31:53] Shara Curlett: I would love to talk about genres and particularly in regards to the children's book side of things. Where do you see the strongest sales in regards to the different genres? 

[00:32:04] Lizzy Lockhart: I think we're seeing, a lot of that kind of adventure fantasy, which probably comes from parents who loved Harry Potter, who then kind of trickle down to kids- Mm who are also picking up on that kind of fantasy side. so like Graci Kim's novels, your novels, Claire Mabey's novels kind of fit into this really fun world for kids of being able to kind of escape reality, but also learn about people who are picking up skills and building resilience and developing healthy relationships, but in a way that kind of still feels like fun and adventurous. Mm. So that's definitely a big one. Kids will come in looking for another fantasy series to get stuck into. I think we're also seeing a lot of, like, funny kids books. Kids just want things that are funny and silly and not too serious. we've had Sam Smith's series. Those ones are so good. I mean, they're a great mixture of, you know, great illustrations and hilarious story. And I think they come from, you know, the kids who come in loving Dog Man or, Captain Underpants. They just wanna find their next silly series to get stuck into. And again, I think it's easy to get kind of highbrow about it, but, I remember as a kid reading a lot of Andy Griffiths. 

[00:33:01] Shara Curlett: Yeah, love Andy Griffiths. 

[00:33:02] Lizzy Lockhart: Oh, they were so good. so yeah, those two definitely. I think there's a real, especially in the bookshop, a focus on local literature is so big at the moment. So whether that's buying picture books that have been created by New Zealanders, things like the Writers Festival having its biggest year ever in terms of ticket sales speaks to how much we're loving not just international authors, but also seeing more in our local literary scene as well. I took my girl along to the kids event at the Writers Festival on one of the days.

[00:33:29] Shara Curlett: Oh, did 

[00:33:29] Lizzy Lockhart: you? And it was so ... It was packed. There were just, there were kids everywhere, and amazing. Dav Pilkey. His events, like, sold out. You know, kids were gutted that they didn't manage to get a ticket to his talk, his event.

[00:33:39] Shara Curlett: Yeah, my friend, uh, had planned on taking her son- Oh ... and she was just like, "Oh, I'll buy some tickets eventually" Yeah ... and she went online and she messaged me, "Oh my gosh, Duncan's gonna be so upset." No. 

[00:33:50] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, he's not the only one. but how cool. What a great problem to have, to not have enough tickets for, like, kids' literary events.

[00:33:56] Shara Curlett: I know, right? The best problem to have. It speaks- Yeah ... so [00:34:00] positively of how things are moving. 

[00:34:02] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah. And I think what I've also noticed, both for adults and for kids, because, you know, people are reading more, and maybe reading on e-readers or listening to books, we're kind of getting this different focus on the book object as being quite a treasure. And so whether that's adults coming in to buy, like, a beautiful special edition with sprayed edges of their favorite fantasy novel- and even, like, I've seen there's some beautiful kids' books that have come out. I think there's been a lot of care taken with creating a beautiful book object that people want to have in their house.

And there's a a beautiful new picture book that came out recently called B is for Bird by Lily Emo, and she's a New Zealand author, and it's a picture book about native birds, and it's got amazing fold-out illustrations. And it's just a book that you want to have a physical copy of forever because it's so beautifully illustrated and it's so beautifully Kiwi. I think we're just seeing more of those books across the board that are tactile and nice to hold and nice to read. 

[00:34:54] Shara Curlett: Yeah, nice to collect.

[00:34:56] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah. 

[00:34:56] Shara Curlett: Lily Emo, she did the illustrations for The Boy Who Made [00:35:00] Things Up. Is that right? 

[00:35:01] Lizzy Lockhart: Oh, I didn't know that. I think you're right. I feel like she has done illustrations for other books. 

[00:35:05] Shara Curlett: She won the Margaret Mahy Illustration Prize?

[00:35:08] Lizzy Lockhart: Oh, amazing. I didn't realise. 

[00:35:10] Shara Curlett: Yeah, and that's one book that both my kids choose. And I think it's quite interesting when they choose it because, I purposely try not to use my device in front of my kids. If I wanna use it, I go into the kitchen and I stand there and use it, and then I put it down again. But I will have to be at my computer sometimes if I've got deadlines or something, and they understand that. And recently, I had my book deadlines coming up, and we- Yeah ... had to do a lot of proofreads and going back and forth over the manuscript. And my kids chose The Boy Who Made Things Up, and it's about- Oh It's about a dad who's, who's working a lot, and the kid is so imaginative, and he's just like, "Where are we?"

And they go to this beach that didn't exist, and they go across the water. It's such a beautiful story. Mm. But I feel like sometimes kids tell you things through the stories that they want to read. And I read this to my kids, and I was just like, "Are you feeling this way with Mummy at the moment?" And they both said- "You're working a lot, Mummy," 'cause they're so used to me being so accessible. But at the moment I'm working a lot and then there will be moments where I'm not working a lot. I think it's important to explain to them, like, I'm following my dreams. But- 

[00:36:17] Lizzy Lockhart: 100%. 

[00:36:18] Shara Curlett: -I wanna find a balance where I can show them you have to work hard for your dreams. Like it doesn't just- Yeah ... come to you without hard work. 

[00:36:25] Lizzy Lockhart: Yes. That's so true. I think that's been such a journey for me for the first four years of motherhood is you kind of start off just giving them literally everything.

[00:36:33] Shara Curlett: Yeah. 

[00:36:33] Lizzy Lockhart: And you have to at some point try to kind of reclaim taking care of yourself, taking care of your own dreams so that they can see this, like, fully formed human- Yeah ... not just Mum. 

[00:36:41] Shara Curlett: Yeah. Ah, 100%. Yeah. 

[00:36:43] Lizzy Lockhart: And I think you're right that, like, storybooks can be such a tool for kids to understand their experiences. Like, one of our favourite ones at the moment that I really thought would be too ... I didn't think my girl would really get it, but it's called A Guide to Rocks by Sacha Cotter, and it's also been published in Te Reo, which I think is awesome, and it's about a boy and his dad, and they use the metaphor of the kind of emotional baggage that we hold as, like, a rock that you kind of carry with you.

Oh. And his dad is trying to teach him how to, like, ignore it, put it away, don't let anyone see it. And together him and his dad have to kind of work out healthier ways to process it and to break it down and to share it. And she's been choosing it, like, night after night, and I feel like there's something there that she's connecting with that we haven't quite worked out.

[00:37:21] Shara Curlett: wow ... 

[00:37:22] Lizzy Lockhart: One of those books that are not only beautiful and easy to read, but really do kind of teach us something about the human experience. 

[00:37:28] Shara Curlett: Yeah. Children choose books for a reason. Maybe it's the cover- Yeah ... maybe it's the title, but sometimes it is the words, and they're trying- Mm-hmm to process something or share something or internalize something that we could just, " I'll read your book. Yep. It's bedtime." Mm-hmm. "Let's read it and go to bed." Or you could actually look at it and say, "Okay, are they trying to tell me something through this book, or do they need support through this book?"

[00:37:49] Shara Curlett: Which is just another reason why I'm such a huge advocate for books. Yes. Because they allow kids to- To help understand the world around them- and different viewpoints and different ways. 

[00:37:59] Lizzy Lockhart: Exactly. and in fact I sell a lot of, The Invisible String. You know that one?

[00:38:03] Shara Curlett: I love The Invisible String.

[00:38:05] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah. I remember me and my girl using it a lot when she first started going to daycare when she was about two years old. And now it's just, like, my go-to recommendation for anyone who's got kind of a child who's going through that sort of attachment phase of needing to transition into daycare or there's even, I think there's one called The Invisible Backpack that's kind of more about school and has a few more tools that kids can kind of imagine that they're taking into school with them. Such great books. 

[00:38:27] Shara Curlett: I've actually been speaking about The Invisible String lately with my son because I'm off to Aussie soon, and I'll be going over there a couple of trips, and the second one's it's like the longest I've ever been away from him. And I keep talking about just remember we're always connected, always. And, again, it's just, books offer the metaphors in a visual way that you- Mm ... can explain something to your child, and then reading the book to reinforce it. 

[00:38:52] Lizzy Lockhart: Have you got a Yoto or a Tonie? 

[00:38:54] Shara Curlett: I have a Yoto, yes. 

[00:38:55] Lizzy Lockhart: Me too. Ah. I was gonna say, 'cause when I worked for Save the Children, I would go away quite regularly to Wellington, and I ended up recording a bunch of storybooks on my cards for my daughter to then, like, listen to at nighttime so, like, Mummy could still read her a story.

[00:39:08] Shara Curlett: Oh my gosh. Yeah. I never thought of that. That's genius. 

[00:39:12] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah. 

[00:39:13] Shara Curlett: Do you can buy cards that you can record on?

[00:39:15] Lizzy Lockhart: You can just get a blank one. Yeah, so you can get blank ones that you can just record. You can just kinda add whatever you want to. We've got quite a few blank ones 'cause she's really into random playlists of Taylor Swift and K-pop Demon Hunters, and so we can curate her own collections. But yeah, we've got one that's just permanently kind of a collection of stories that I've read, I've, like, recorded and then loaded onto the cards. 

[00:39:33] Shara Curlett: Oh my gosh. I think you've just solved a problem for me. So I, I keep going on to my husband about how I'd love it if they could re-release the old-school iPods where you can just put music on without all the other stuff. 'Cause we don't use devices with our kids, so basically if they wanna listen to music it's just through a speaker or something. But having a curated playlist, oh my gosh. I'm so gonna do that. That's genius. It's 

[00:39:58] Lizzy Lockhart: really easy. Yeah, once you've got the blank cards it's super, super easy.

[00:40:01] Shara Curlett: And so Shara goes off to buy a bunch of blank- ... Yoto cards. And speaking of genres, I'd love to know- Mm ... how horror does in regards to the kids' books, because I've said on the podcast before, every time I do a school visit, I'm just blown away, 'cause I always ask what genres do the kids like reading, and you know, a bunch of hands shoot up for different genres. But particularly I leave horror until last, and when I say horror, like, I'm talking about younger kids as well, five to eight- Mm ... as much as the eight to 12 year olds. And when I say horror, almost every hand shoots up in the air. And Adrian Beck actually did a really good post recently where he said, some parents are concerned about their children reading horror.

[00:40:43] Shara Curlett: Mm. But I read horror as a kid, and I loved it. Like, I can't say I love it now, but as a kid, pre-Goosebumps R.L. Stine- I couldn't get enough of them. So what do you see in regards to sales with horror in your store? 

[00:40:59] Lizzy Lockhart: That's so interesting 'cause I'm actually in the middle of trying to write a blog post about horror for next week. It's become one of my favorite genres, and I'm someone who, I grew up on Goosebumps. Absolutely loved them. Then kind of went off horror for a long time as an adult, and have just recently rediscovered these kind of different little niches in horror that I'm really loving, like feminist horror and one of my favorite random niches is botanical horror.

[00:41:21] Shara Curlett: Oh, what's that? And there are ...

[00:41:21] Lizzy Lockhart: yeah. If ... So it's horror involving, like, murderous gardens and plants and it's always, like, really gritty and earthy- ... and I just, I'm obsessed with it. 

[00:41:30] Shara Curlett: I can't ... Like, my mind just went back to that, what is it? Like that plant in the- 

[00:41:35] Lizzy Lockhart: Yes what is that? I know which one you mean. Ah. The one that kind of introduced me to it as an adult is called Hazelthorn by C.G. Drews, and it's just, it's like a YA story, and it's got queer yearning, but then it's also got this botanical horror aspect to it. And I had never read anything like it, and so it just kind of opened my eyes to this whole genre that I had no idea existed. But yeah, I think that's so true what you say where I think parents are reluctant to buy kids horror. 

[00:41:59] Shara Curlett: Yeah. 

[00:42:00] Lizzy Lockhart: But what I do notice is that, I, like even my four-year-old is really drawn to books that have some kind of scariness or peril in them, and I think it kind of connects ... Again, it kind of connects with what we were saying about how storybooks sort of give kids a way to understand the world, and the world is kind of intense and full of questions and mysteries. And so I think being able to process some of that in a way that's contained on the page is ... It can be really helpful. 

[00:42:23] Lizzy Lockhart: I feel like we probably don't sell as much kids horror as kids wish we would sell because ultimately it's up to their parents' discretion. But we get a lot of kids coming and asking about things like Five Nights at Freddy's, which when I first saw as a bookseller, I was like, "Oh, I would not give my child Five Nights at Freddy's. That looks terrifying." But kids love it, and, you know, there's clearly something there that they're connecting with. there's also some great, like, picture books that I feel like kind of take aspects of horror and, make it appropriate for like a younger audience, which I really like. Like there's one that we love at the moment, which is called Row, Row, Row Your Boat With Monsters. 

[00:42:54] Shara Curlett: Oh my gosh.

[00:42:54] Lizzy Lockhart: And it's got amazing illustrations, and it's just creepy enough that, you know, the first time we read it my child was like a little bit unsure, and now it's become like a favorite. But yeah, that's so fascinating to hear that kids, kids really are putting their hands up for that when you ask them about it. 

[00:43:09] Shara Curlett: Yeah. And I think it kind of covers that whole spectrum of both novels and graphic novels. But I feel like the graphic novels perhaps may be even more off-putting to parents because- Yes you know, it's the visual aspect as well. Like- 

[00:43:23] Lizzy Lockhart: Exactly ...

[00:43:23] Shara Curlett: you've got the covers of Five Nights at Freddy's, which is one thing, but then you've got this full book of horror and I don't know. I think there needs to be more trust in kids of what they choose to read and what they can handle because, I mean, if you think about when you were a kid, if you found something scary, you just wouldn't do it, right? 

[00:43:44] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, 

[00:43:45] Shara Curlett: If it was too scary that you thought it might give you nightmares or something, I just think you just wouldn't read it. 

[00:43:52] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah. And I mean, we get a lot of parents coming in and asking, like, "Is this okay to buy for my child?" And it's so hard because, you know, a child can be reading it at an advanced level. Like, I, I was a very precocious reader, and so I was reading, like, Stephen King's Misery when I was, like, 12. And that was like- 

[00:44:06] Shara Curlett: That was my husband ...

[00:44:07] Lizzy Lockhart: Really? 

[00:44:08] Shara Curlett: Yeah. He read all of the Stephen King at a very young age. 

[00:44:12] Lizzy Lockhart: And I remember being so scared reading it that I couldn't sleep with the book in the bedroom with me 'cause it had, like, a weird eyeball on the cover- and I had to put it outside my door when I was finished reading to go to bed. And I think the thing that I come back to with parents who are sort of asking for reassurance is that the most important thing is being able to talk to your kids about what they're reading. So as long as they know that they've got an adult that they can come to to process maybe a ... Whether it's just a word that they don't know about that they want some help, understanding, or whether it's the themes or a relationship, I think that that relationship that you have with your kids where you can ask them what they're reading about, share what you're reading about, and kind of build that community around reading just within your own home is so important and is the most important thing rather than what they're reading.

[00:44:50] Shara Curlett: Yeah. I think you've just nailed that. Like, it's being approachable and having your child know that they can talk to you about anything, right? And- Yeah ... let alone, let alone what's in the book. But if they feel like they want to ask you something, being available to them for them to ask. You're so right.

[00:45:07] Lizzy Lockhart: And I think that connects with what we talked about with online as well, the biggest protective factor, I think, for children managing what it is to be a child surrounded with online being such a big part of their life is, is having parents and adults that they can come to for support and for help untangling what it all means for them.

[00:45:22] Shara Curlett: Oh, absolutely right. Now, I would love to chat about what you're reading and listening to at the moment. 

[00:45:28] Lizzy Lockhart: Well, with my toddler we're reading, well she's not really a toddler anymore, with my four-year-old we're reading a lot of Fancy Nancy on repeat every night. And it's become, like, a bit of a judgmental thing where she'll be like, "Mummy, that's, those shoes aren't fancy, but my shoes are fancy." So yes, we love Fancy Nancy. I read quite a, quite widely. Um, sometimes we get advanced copies sent through to read before they come out and are published.

So I've got a few. I've just read Karin Slaughter's ... She's like a thriller, crime thriller author. So I just read her latest one, which was really good, called The Secrets We Hide, which is a great kind of small town crime thriller. But then I'm also a big fan... It's so hard 'cause I think working in the bookshop you get, like, recommendations from all the customers who come in to buy things. 

[00:46:05] Shara Curlett: Oh. 

[00:46:05] Lizzy Lockhart: And people think that I'm doing the book selling, but my wishlist grows every day. And so thanks to a lot of customers who come in to buy romance and romantasy, I've definitely been reading more of those at the moment. I just read an amazing book, and we actually just had the author visit today, so I really feel like if anyone's gonna read a book this year, it should be this one. It's called The Valley by Asher Emanuel. 

[00:46:26] Shara Curlett: Ooh. 

[00:46:26] Lizzy Lockhart: And it's like a nonfiction narrative story about these three men in the justice system in the Hutt Valley, It took him eight years to write, and it's just the most important portrayal, I think, of the way that our system is struggling to do what it needs to do. But it's also... I think, I thought it was gonna be quite dense, and it's so readable. I didn't put it down, and I just read it back to- within two days I think I'd finished, and it's a chunky book. So I highly recommend that for something a bit different. It would make a great addition to the year's TBR, especially with the election on the way. 

[00:46:52] Shara Curlett: Mm. Oh, I might have a look at that one. 

[00:46:55] Lizzy Lockhart: What about you? What are you reading at the moment? 

[00:46:56] Shara Curlett: I just finished reading Ariane Beeston's Don't Forget to Smile, which is a contemporary YA. And, She's an Australian author, and her debut came out in 2024. I just had her on the podcast actually. And, I found it really fresh because, you know, YA, there often are different points of view. But I think the design work, as we'd discussed, was just incredible. It's such a page-turner where you're going from one perspective to the next, to a TikTok post, to a text message exchange, to a just, a simple beautiful quote, like one quote on a page.

[00:47:31] Lizzy Lockhart: Oh. 

[00:47:32] Shara Curlett: And yeah, fresh is the word that I can't get away from because it just breaks up the typical character and, um, structure, chapter structure so I really enjoyed that one. 

[00:47:43] Lizzy Lockhart: Oh, cool. 'Cause yeah, we're always looking for new books to recommend to the librarians, 'cause we send out emails to the school librarians, regularly. And so it's always good to have new YA ones to recommend as well. 

[00:47:54] Shara Curlett: Ooh, can you tell me a bit more about that? 

[00:47:56] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, so we have the amazing Roopa who joined us earlier this year, and she really started with helping to set up library accounts and give them an easier way to buy books for their school libraries. But what it really also has turned into is a chance to promote, especially local authors that, might be new to the scene.

Because I think a lot of school libraries can become full of the kind of the old books that, people already know and love. And so it's a really, it's a privileged position, I think, to be able to have new books come out, curate the ones that we think would be best in a school library, and then we send out newsletters every term to our list of school librarians that kind of showcase all of the new books that have come out, or the upcoming ones they should have their eye on.

[00:48:34] Lizzy Lockhart: For example, Violet and the Velvets is an amazing series that we've been saying libraries should make sure they've got in their library because, it's got a neurodiverse main character, it's got a School of Rock Quest kind of rock band going on, and it's just such a fun series that I think, is a great addition. So yeah, Roopa looks after the school librarians, but as a team we all kind of come together to create that list of suggestions to keep libraries feeling fresh and help librarians feel excited to be able to suggest new books that have only just come out to their schools.

[00:49:00] Shara Curlett: That's such a good idea. And is that just an initiative that you guys came up with? 

[00:49:06] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, I think it kind of flowed on quite naturally. So once we started ... Again, it sort of comes to under-anticipating how much people just wanna be able to talk about books and hear about new books. so yeah, what started kind of quite formally as a process of having all of these accounts and having a person and a name to the person who was looking after the accounts, I think again, makes a big difference. And so once teachers had connected with Roopa, teachers and librarians, they just were looking for advice because, I mean, it, there's so many books that come out each week, and it's hard to know what age range they're appropriate for. You don't wanna accidentally get the wrong ones into the library, and covers can be very misleading. So yeah, I think having people who know the books and know the industry and then can also help actually get them into your hands for a reasonable price has put us in a really great position to be able to support school libraries in that way. 

[00:49:49] Shara Curlett: That's incredible, and that comes back to that personalization of Book Hero that we were talking about earlier-

[00:49:54] Lizzy Lockhart: Exactly ...

[00:49:55] Shara Curlett: -how it really feels like a personal approach. when I owned a business back in the day, it was called Trees Please, and we used to, re-pot little sapling baby native and fruiting and flowering trees- Oh ... into sustainable wooden planters, and then we'd pack them up in a gift box, and we'd send them out. And I bought it off someone who was looking to do something else- Mm ... and the one thing she said to me is, "I take a really personal approach, I try not to automate things because you just lose that person behind it." Yeah. And I, I took that to the T, and I continued that.

And so I was communicating with customers, and I just got such great feedback. But the best feedback I had was when I made a mistake- Mm ... because I would personally rectify it, and they would see me trying hard to make up for it. Yeah. And often that turned them into my biggest fans, and I think with what you're doing, having that personal approach with your customers is exactly what makes a business, let alone a bookshop, successful.

[00:50:55] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, and I think it ... You know, we've got customers who have given us such a precious amount of trust, and so it does mean that when you mess up and things inevitably get lost in the, you know, system- or a book arrives damaged, they know that they can reach out, and they'll get a person who really wants to fix it for them. So, yeah, I think having leadership at Book Hero that really care about the customer then just feeds all the way down through the process and gives us permission to do our best by the people who give us, yeah, their time and their energy and their money. 

[00:51:21] Shara Curlett: It sounds like you've got a really good leadership team there. And we have had such a great chat. I feel like I could just keep talking to you about books-

[00:51:28] Lizzy Lockhart: I know, same.

[00:51:30] Shara Curlett: -all day. I will definitely have you back on again, another time as well because I think there's much more to talk about. But for now I'd love to ask, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout-out to? Any businesses or any people ... 

[00:51:41] Lizzy Lockhart: Yeah, I mean, shout-out to all the other booksellers out there. I think, you know, selling books is such a privilege and an honour and to ... Like, we've got the Booksellers Conference coming up soon, and I feel very lucky to be able to be a part of a team of people who care so much about books. Um, but also to all the writers out there who are committed to creating new stories for kids to enjoy. You know, like, I can see how much time and energy it takes for authors to dedicate to the stories that they create for kids and for adults. And as a bookseller it's really nice when you see the books end up in the right people's hands and kids come back who are absolutely enamored with characters and stories, and we wouldn't have that without all the authors who are out there creating new ones for us.

[00:52:18] Shara Curlett: Oh, that's beautiful. What a wonderful way to finish. Thank you so much, Lizzy Lockhart from Book Hero. Thank you for coming onto The KidLit Pod. 

[00:52:26] Lizzy Lockhart: Thank you, Shara. It's been so nice.

[00:52:28] Shara Curlett: And have a great day tomorrow with your Graci Kim event. 

[00:52:31] Lizzy Lockhart: Thank you. We're so excited for it. We can't wait to celebrate with all the kids and parents.

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[00:52:35] Shara Curlett: How great a chat was that with Lizzy Lockhart from Book Hero? I have been watching them for the last kind of year or so when they stocked Welcome to Miracle before most other bookstores did, and I was really appreciative of their support for authors from New Zealand, Aotearoa. And They're really passionate about supporting local authors.

We spoke about so many things during that chat, But I think my favorite part is how Book Hero are saying we can do digital and personal, And merge them together to create a beautiful business with people who care. And it's very clear that they all love books. I'd recommend going and visiting their social media page, which is run by Sasha, she's doing an amazing job with it and it is really fantastic to stay in the loop with all bookish news. To visit them, you can go to bookhero.co.nz or @bookheronz on Instagram.

And if you'd like to hear more picks from Lizzy, you can visit her on Instagram, @peppermintpagesnz

If you'd like to learn more about me, you can go to @sharacurlett on Instagram or you can visit sharacurlett.com. ​

Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on The KidLit Pod. ​