The Frank Gatson Jr. Episode

Behind-the-scenes stories from legendary choreographer Frank Gatson Jr., sharing his journey from Milwaukee to working with icons like Michael Jackson and Beyoncé! Plus real talk on success, artistry, and what it takes to reach greatness.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Well, I get it from anywhere else. Well, you can get it straight from the game with promise.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

It's not a thread, it's a promise.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

Yo, you know who it is and what it is. You got promise coming to you live from the Yap House, and it's time for another episode of Straight From the Yap with Promise. And today I'm super excited because I have a legendary guest in the building with me. This man has been the creative director for Beyonce. He has worked with the legendary late great Michael Jackson, Brandy, and Vogue, and so many others, from being a director to being a choreographer and just being a brilliant mind when it comes to music and dance. I'm happy to have him in the building, the one and only Mr. Frank Gatson Jr. Frank, how you doing, sir?

SPEAKER_04 1:11

I'm great.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Thank you for the great introduction, sir. Man, come on now. Oh, wow. It's well deserved. Um, man, let's just get right into it. You have done some amazing things over the years of your career. You are still doing amazing things. Let me start from the beginning. Frank, what made you get into dance? Like, where did your love and passion for dance come from? Well, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

Um well, many people don't know this, but I went to Fulton High School, Fulton Junior High School, and I went to North Division High School. Back in the day, we had these things called drill teams. Okay. And and it was a hundred of us that would come down the aisles at pep rallies, and we had these red shirts on, and ascots, I guess that's what you call it, a rope and a Tam. And it was a hundred of us. You know, but I was only in the drill team in the aisles, so I wasn't a captain.

SPEAKER_05 2:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

So that's I guess that's where I first started dancing, I guess, you know. But it was stepping. It reminded you of fraternities.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Yeah, okay. Like the black.

SPEAKER_04 2:21

Yeah, you know, and then and but we were and but we were a hundred strong. And the captains were up there on stage, but we would be in the aisles just doing stuff like ripples and steps like temptation. It was really cool. Okay. And and we would dress to the nines because we had the Tams, the rope, the red shirt, and we had these like things down the side of our legs, like these balls. You know, it was a very like late 70s. Okay. So that's where I think I must have started dancing, you know. And then from there I went to high school and North Division made a drill team.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:54

But that's where I became like a little bit like a star. I was the robot man.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_04 2:59

I had a robot solo to a song called Scorpio. Boom, boom, boom, boom. And I would come out of line, they would go crazy, and it's I wish I could find footage of that. Yeah. I mean, I really do because I was, and then Boys Tech got a drill team, and then they had a robot guy that would go against me. Oh, see, I was battling. Yeah, we're battling. Yeah, yeah. We went, we had we had drill team content. Challenge! Then West Division got a uh uh drill team, but I really wish I could find that footage. But I was a robot man and I had this solo, and I had it. And and that was that. Yeah. Okay, and then I guess I to skip ahead, uh I went to Broadway as a senior class trip. Wow. Okay, and I I saw the whiz. Okay. That's Stephanie Mills, Hinton Battle, Ted Ross, George Faison choreographed it. I didn't even know what a choreographer was. But Brother Booker, Arlene Skaroski at North Division High School took all these black kids to Broadway. We had orchestra seats. I'll never forget it, 46th Street, 46th in Broadway. And I see the Wiz on Broadway. And they had these monkeys, okay, the flying monkeys. Yeah. They can't call them flying monkeys today. I don't know why. Something, I guess it's not politically correct, but you know, but they were flying monkeys back then. The flying primate. Yeah, yeah. Oh no, they they called it the underlings or something now. Okay, you know, if you see the whiz now, it's called something big.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

They changed it, okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:20

And so so I see these guys come out on stage, man. They were just leaping like that. They just stayed in the air. Stayed in the air. Yeah. Do you understand? Yeah. Everything was up because they they they they looked like they were flying. Okay. That makes sense? Yeah, they have. I said, I want to do that. Uh uh, and I just loved it. But once again, coming from Milwaukee, you don't think you can do anything like that? Get over it. I'm back in Milwaukee. I enrolled in college, University of Wisconsin, Madison. And I don't think nothing about that anymore, but something's in me wanting to do that. But I'm majoring in political science, communications, and uh, but then I fled alpha phi alpha, okay? And all of a sudden I'm a choreographer. I'm putting those shows together. Wow. Okay, because I can step. And I go back to my drill team days. I'm pretty sure the fucking monkeys didn't have nothing to do with the fraternity, but I was stepping my ass off, okay? I was I was doing it. And still, I so from there I took a few dance classes at the University of Wisconsin and Madison, okay, but they were real trite and nothing to them, no soul, no. And no season salt on it. Yeah, yeah, right. You know, but I was learning a few things. Yeah. And um, and that's that. But this, I have to say this. I took a class called Swedish. Swedish? Yeah, and I didn't take Spanish and I didn't take French because I think Madison had one of the best Spanish departments in the country or something. Okay. So I wanted to take an easy way out so I could rec I recognize the words when I saw Swedish. Like at stool. What do you think that means? At stool? A chair. Like a stool? Like a stool. Say that again. At hoose? A house? Yes. Okay. So me, I can I can do this, so I could find. Well, I know Swedish Finnish. Yeah, yeah. But I took, wait, Yastadera Fanska e Fim Oa. Something about a film, a movie? Five. Oh, five. I study Swedish five semesters. Okay. One, two, three, four. Five. Okay. Okay, you know what I'm saying? Uh, and that's that. And I got my degree. I'm walking downtown Milwaukee on Kilborne, and I walk into an auditorium right there by the arena. You know where that is downtown? Yeah. And and I find and I walk in, and there's all these kids singing and dancing.

SPEAKER_05 6:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:37

And and and guess who comes up to me? Who? Well, guess. Quincy Jones. A Swedish girl.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

Man, come on, man. Okay. I'll think you talking about. No.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Okay. I got this. Yeah, no. Yes. And she she she comes up to me and I say, but I had to do. Yeah, I had to Frank.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

So you told her, hello, my name is Frank.

SPEAKER_04 6:59

Yeah, yeah, okay. And she just tripped that this black guy knew Swedish, you know. But they were up there dancing. They were jitterbugging, they were doing Russian dance, they were doing country Western dancing, they were doing Mexican dancing, they were doing all this stuff. And it was a company called Up with People.

SPEAKER_05 7:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:15

Okay. And they go around building bridges of understanding between races and cultures through dance. Dance. Okay. Got it?

SPEAKER_03 7:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:22

And also they used to do the Super Bowl.

unknown 7:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

So performance. So anyway, they took me to the group. I didn't have to go to law school. And I traveled around the world singing and dancing for five years. So originally, because I remember you told me you were going to you wanted to be a lawyer. Exactly. And I was walking downtown one day, depressed. I wanted to go to Wayne University, I think I was enrolled in to go to in Detroit. Yeah. And uh and and just like that, I changed plans. I went off the up with people that January. My church helped me raise money to do it because you didn't get paid in this organization. You stay with host families. I stay with families. Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so I think that's why my people skills are so keen because you would stay with racist families, you would stay with Mexican families, you would we went to Spain, we went to uh South America, and you learned language, but you couldn't speak the language. So it was incredible. It changed my life, man. And I was hooked. And because I was the token black, I was a big tall black guy in all the numbers. Yeah. And we did everything. We we set the stage up, we did the PR, but we went everywhere. And we did the Super Bowl. If you go back and look at the Super Bowl in 1983, 82, 81, it's not Beyonce doing the Super Bowl. It's up with people. Yeah, they didn't, yeah, they get back to the day. They didn't have a.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

And I even remember the song, Up, Up with People. You meet them wherever you go. Up, up with People. They're the best kind of folks you know. If more people It's so stupid. So wait a minute.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

So y'all had a dance routine during the halftime show at the Super Bowl.

SPEAKER_04 8:57

You can watch it, find it. It's it's there. We did, we were the we did it three years in a row. Bob, find that clip. Okay. Three years in a row. Okay. And I was with that cast. And all so it was five casts, casts A, B, C, D, and E. I was with E at first, then I went to B, then I went to C. Then Sea World hires hired us. And I was one of the people who went to SeaWorld and did that. And then from there, real quick, I'm almost done. Uh I said, let me go to New York and do Broadway. I get to New York, I'm not that good. Because I hadn't studied like those other people. Yeah, but in that people, I was a star. Okay. The Doken. I had a rap song called Shape It Up. It was a fit song. I would rap some bars? Yeah, yes, I did. I would shape it up, shape it up. I forget what I forget. It was called Shape It Up. That's what it was. Okay. And I came out. I thought you said I came out with a I got pictures from I came out with a ghost sweatsuit on. It was stupid. But but all of that, I'm almost done. So it's sometimes you ain't got that much time to talk. Okay. So I'm just trying to be quick, okay? Um, so so I I went to Broadway, I enrolled in Alvin Ailey. I tried to I tried to get in that company, didn't have the technique. Really? You know, because a lot of those young men would star ballet and jazz and modern, like age 10 and 11. I had none of that. I just was a natural dancer from in the drill team, and and that's that. Okay. That makes sense? Yeah. And um, and I had to come back home. And I came back to Milwaukee and I enrolled in the University of West Conside, Milwaukee. You'd up. Yeah, okay. And I got a master's in theater and dance. Speak on. Okay. And from there, it still was just all right, dance classes, you know.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

And I know you said that your pops just wasn't like, ah, that dance shit.

SPEAKER_04 10:51

Right. I mean, he's he I was in school. I was moving, you know, but he still he knows I'm on my own, but he doesn't know what it is. He don't think he can make money out of it. He didn't see the and you you know that I'll get to that in a minute, okay? Because because that when when I when he found out I did it big. Okay. I was I was on Oprah. And then in Oprah, just so you know, skip ahead to that. I'm skipping around. I got the degree and I heard about an audition in LA, and it was Smooth Criminal, Michael Jackson. You're talking about that guy, okay. Right. Okay, so that's the album I think is on, isn't it? Yeah, thriller. Yeah, Smooth Criminal. Um and and I book it. But back to my dad, my dad saw me on Oprah years later. I was working with Tony Braxton by then, okay? And uh, and they brought me on Oprah to show the men how to dance. And we do a whole 45-minute segment, and I just show men how to be cool at a party. And and and that that was big. That came on in the barbershop, and my dad and them saw it. Yeah, and they was like proud, and like, wow, he in there teaching all these white folks and black folks, and and he got Oprah up there doing what he's saying. And two, and two. And it was some easy swag that stuff, you know. So uh I have footage of it, and so that's what my father said. Oh wow, he made it. Okay, but but by then I had worked with In Vogue, I had worked with Tony Braxton, I had worked with Usher, I had worked with uh R. Kelly. Um Robert? Yeah, yeah, you know. Yeah, yeah, you know. You know, yeah, yeah. Robert's a good guy. I have to say that. You know, I ain't gotta say nothing else but that. I've only worked with him as a director, and I put together the download top secret tour, the TB2 tours, uh, what's Step in the Room? What's the room?

SPEAKER_03 12:44

Uh the Chocolate Factory. Step in the Room.

SPEAKER_04 12:47

Step in the Name of Love. No, Room. Step in the Room. It's a room. Step in the Closet? No, it's a room. It's I can't think of the song. But anyway, I did that, you know. So, and Robert also took my girl group, June's diary, on the road for 175 shows before the scandal came down. Sure. Okay. You got it? No, that's what I don't know Robert the person. I know the the musician. Yeah, but I but you know, I'm gonna give you something that I have never said, okay, because I know we should be talking, but I'm gonna be real. Okay. What I don't understand about the whole thing with R. Kelly is that my girls, June's Diary, okay, that me and Kelly Rowland put together, they did 175 shows with Robert.

unknown 13:28

Okay?

SPEAKER_04 13:28

175. Okay. Are you with me? Okay, I'm with you. And they stayed in the same hotels, and and I said simply to those five girls, stay away from him. That's it. And then one day he got on the elevator with me, not with me, with the girls. And the girls snatched up because he was on the elevator. And he came to me, he says, Frank, do you tell those girls not to fuck with me? I said, Yeah, you're stupid. That's all I said to him. Okay. And when I think about that, I'm not even those girls' fathers. And we were on the road in the same hotel with him. And look how easy it was to protect my young ladies. Okay. And that's my story to it all. And I'm not saying none of the other stuff happened or didn't happen, but sometimes I find out I think people are too thirsty with these fucking stars.

unknown 14:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:21

More than one of the things. And doing things. And, you know, like even when I saw that documentary, they were throwing pebbles. If my daughter would have been in that place, I'd have burnt that motherfucker down. You understand? So that's just my impression of this man from being a choreographer and director. Okay. And that's all I have to say about it, you know. And so I guess I want to say a bigger message. Stop being thirsty with these damn artists, because they're going to die just like us. And that's what Catherine Jackson taught me. I'm skipping all over the place. You understand that? Yeah. Like, you know, we got to stop being thirsty. They're black just like.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

You say to stop exalting people to these.

SPEAKER_04 14:59

I mean, don't lick somebody's ass because they're a star.

SPEAKER_03 15:02

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 15:02

Do your job with them. Yeah. You know, they're male groupies, there's female groupies, and that's and it's just, and once again, and I gotta preference that and why I'm so adamant about that is because when I did Smook Criminal, remember, that's my first job. Yeah, Frank. We gotta talk about that. I made $10,000.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

Right. Now, hold on, okay, wait, yeah, we gotta. Sorry, Robert. Uh Kales. You ain't gotta use that. No, I'm joking. Um, because we can go somewhere else with Dark Kennedy still for sure. Yeah, yeah. But I want to talk about you know your amazing work with obviously the late great Michael Jackson. Your first booked music video to work on is Smooth Criminal. My first, my first professional job where I made $10,000.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Sheesh. Okay, as a as a dancer.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 15:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

So tell us about, because I know, but for people who don't know, tell us about, because you're in the music video too. You didn't just work on the set, like you're oh no, and I was a dancer in the scene.

SPEAKER_04 15:55

Yes, yeah, yeah. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

Talk about the scene specifically.

SPEAKER_04 16:00

You know, just imagine being a kid from Milwaukee and you booked this big job. We shot the video for a month. A month? Okay, wow. Okay. Think about that. We rehearsed, we got in wardrobe every day. You just got to see show business at its best. And I think that created Frank Gatson, you know, like they had they had walls, like, say for example, they want to shoot that way. They would remove that wall and put a wall over there. The set was built from scratch. Like, you know, this set is built from scratch, but more designed from scratch. Okay. His set, they brought the walls in, they brought the tables in, they brought the doors in. There was no ceiling until it was there needed to be a ceiling because cameras and lights was up there. It was unbelievable. And uh so it was just unbelievable. And Michael was incredible. Like, do you know what marking is? Like, no, no, like if you if I say dance full out, you go for it. But if I say mark it, you have to it. Okay. That's called marking and dance. So he would never mark. And so when you would see him cut on, you'd be like, damn, he went full out, you know. And that would just amaze me, you know. And and I and also his fingers were so manicured. I don't know why I recognized that. They were so well manicured. And I think it's because I had the scene where I pull a gun out and shot.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

That's what I said.

SPEAKER_04 17:22

Talk about it, Frank. Talk about your scene. Yeah, like if you if you ever watch the video, um how many times have we watched it? If you see when Michael grabs the girl with the red dress, if you look in the background, I'm running through the club and I shoot this guy, he dies and jumps back, and then I put it in my holster and I go like that to Michael, you know, and it just was like a cool moment. But the security used to check the gun every take. Because it was just a fake gun. They've like, damn, this is crazy. Michael Jackson. Yeah, they they I guess they thought I would have switched the guns out. I don't know, but they would check that gun every take. Isn't that deep? You know.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

So let me ask you about. I mean, obviously the whole video is iconic, but one of the most memorable scenes in the video, of course, is is the is the lean. Oh, yeah. Um, if you can, like, yeah, I auditioned.

SPEAKER_04 18:08

I auditioned to be in that part. Okay. They they they that's Vince Patterson. Shout out to Vince Patterson. He's the choreographer for that. Okay. Okay. Um, he he's the one who hired me. You know, he didn't know me. Yeah. And he hired me. And also, I didn't have an eight by ten. You know what an eight by ten is? Yeah. A picture? You didn't have your headshot. I didn't have a headshot when I crashed that audition. Wow. Okay. So I I had a picture of me and my sister. And he I cut my sister out and and I gave him that little picture. Yeah, it was like a little picture like that, right? And and uh and he gave it back. Really? He gave it back. But anyway, but what was the question? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

No, because I wanted to ask you, like, did you see how they shot that picture?

SPEAKER_04 18:46

Oh, yeah, I know that exactly how they did it. Okay. But I wish I was in it. Of course. Okay, that's what I wish. But they auditioned everybody on the set. But one guy who should have gotten it, should have got it. This name was Lavelle Smith. Okay. He's a great dancer. He was really he became really close with Michael. He toured with Michael, incredible dancer, a good friend. And he was auditioning for it. He should have got that section before I tell you how he did it. Because he he he was chewing gum. He was chewing the gum and just doing the step with just chewing the, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. But Michael came back the next day chewing gum like him. That's why he should have got it. Mimiking him? Yes. That's that's why he should have got it. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. But but basically all they did, man, is uh they had wire. Okay, imagine wire up in the ceiling, came down, and in the back, they had a harness on, and they put the suit coat on, and they had holes built in the back of the back, and those invisible strings went to their back so they were able to manipulate the guy's whole body as they leaned. Okay. Okay, and then in the floor, they took some plates and the shoes just scooted into the plates, but they could scoot the shoes out the plates so their feet, their feet were locked. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

So their feet could stay in place, but they could move the body.

SPEAKER_04 20:01

Right, right, yeah. Wow. Yeah. And then, you know, and I always really like, you know what dailies are? Yeah. The dailies, we would go see them every day at the lunch hours, but they had some where they went really close to the floor. And then so I don't know why they only went this far, but it was incredible how they did that. But then when Michael did the tour, he had a magnetic floor. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

Wow. That I mean, that's you know, we all love that video, and that's iconic. And a lot of us try to lean and do it in the house and fell over and bust our heads. Yeah, but I'm glad I was part of that. But it was cool. And and what like you said you remember Mike's fingers being manicured, and I know you the the story you told me about meeting his mother, Catherine. Um, but like did Michael Jackson, because I just believe he had like the aura. Like when you were in the room, was it like a presence, like that is Michael Jackson?

SPEAKER_04 20:50

Yeah, yeah. Like uh, exactly. Like I was fascinated by Michael before Catherine came. Yeah. Catherine Jackson. Um his hands just look rich. I don't know why, you know, and and and he was still, you know, our color.

SPEAKER_05 21:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:07

You know, the hands were before he got that disease, whatever. Um so it was like I might feel like he was like your color a little bit. I hate to say it like that, between you and me. Yeah, you know, but it was just these incredible rich looking hands. I don't know why I would recognize like that. He was nice, he was humble, he was always in character. Uh just a good guy. You know, I'm glad I got the award. Because I went on to direct him too. You know that, right? Yeah. You ever seen Dangerous? If you go to the American Music Awards, I think it's the 20th year, 20th annual American Music Awards. That for the Dangerous album. This wasn't for the album, but it was a dangerous song. Okay. I got to creatively direct and choreograph that number with Lavelle Smith and Travis Payne. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

So to go from being hired to be in Mike's video.

SPEAKER_04 21:57

But this was like 10 years later. But still, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Yeah, yeah. Right. To go from being hired on his video to now directing him. Like that was a full circle.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

You know, our girl, um Andrea. Yep. Dre she just posted a picture of me and Michael Jackson today. Really? Of that day I did that dangerous number. That's cool. She has it on her, like literally, because she's been uh upgraded to an anchor for Milwaukee Tonight. Shout out to Dre. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's so interesting. If you want to see that picture, that's that's when I did that for Michael. And uh and he he was incredible, man. I I I miss Michael Jackson. Yeah, I really do, you know. And and and the bar is him right now, you know. Yeah. When any artist any artist that I ever work with, like Brandy, Beyonce, I'm always winning excellence from excellent.

SPEAKER_05 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:51

Excellent. I want them to be excellent. And uh, and it's not I'm trying to make trying to make them be like Michael Jackson. It's a stuff. It's just that you gotta get the great right lighting people, you gotta get the right choreographers, you gotta get the right directors, you gotta get the right staging, you got to get the right lights. I I you gotta have all I saw that stuff, so I know what quality is. But it is, yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

Well, let me ask you this. Um, you went from obviously being a student to becoming a teacher with dance. And how did you get to the point, Frank, from you learning your skill set to realizing that you could make others great, right? Like when you went from being great, how did you win?

SPEAKER_04 23:28

But you know, you know on that smooth criminal video set, the guy Lavelle Smith, I just talked about uh chewing the gum, and Michael, he went on a tutour with Michael Jackson. Yeah, like he's you if you look up Lavelle Smith, you'll see him. Uh he asked me to manage him after that. Really? Which which is interesting, isn't it? You know, uh, and and and he booked a McJagger job. Now he didn't he he showed Mick Jagger how to do all that crazy stuff. And and I'll never forget he he he was making $40,000 a week teaching Mick Jagger how to really do a little bit of nothing. Simple, yeah. Simple stuff. And I would get my little 15%. And and so so from there he and myself, we made this organization called Gatson Smith and Payne, three of us. We were the law firm.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Like a law firm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:20

And so, and that's how we got to uh work with In Vogue. Because when In Vogue uh auditioned us, they wanted to work with Michael Peters. Do you know who that is?

SPEAKER_03 24:30

No, who's Michael Peters?

SPEAKER_04 24:31

He did Thriller.

unknown 24:32

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_04 24:32

Okay, he's yeah, he did Thriller. And Lester Wilson, you probably don't know who that is, uh, he did the first sparkle. Okay. Okay, so he did Motown 25, if you ever watched that. But wasn't he, he didn't do Mike, he did the opening show. Okay. The whole show. So we told In Vogue, so in Vogue, of course, wanted to hire Michael Peters, but we say, let us do it for free. And that's how I got with In Vogue. So I had this like little business mind and law mind, and and I'm oh, I forgot one thing. The young lady that I stayed with in LA, Sherokov, shout out to Sherokov, love you. Um, she's the one who told me to get out of New York because they broke there. Move to LA, Frank, you'll make it here, you know. And I stay with her when I auditioned for Smooth Criminal, but she had a pageant, bruh. She had a pageant called the Miss Black Scholarship Pageant. Miss Miss Miss Black California Scholarship Pageant. Okay. And she let me stage it and choreograph it. Who do I meet there? Cindy Heron of it before In Vogue even was made. Okay. And Cindy Heron won. And Cindy Heron told me about three weeks ago that I cursed out the judges. You don't recall. I had a blackout moment. So basically, and I kind of remember this. Like, you know how, like, when you do a black pageant, it could be that girl who comes on stage who's just clever with the attitude. Okay. But she really don't mean nothing, like how Cindy could sing, dance. She had the great answers. So I go in a room and I say, you all need to be picking Cindy Heron, you know, and then all the women clap for me and stuff like that. This is what Cindy told me, but I don't remember. I must have blacked out. But so anyway, from there, I choreographed Cindy and the pageant girls in this pageant. And uh and Cindy one day came by my house later on in my life and played Hold On.

unknown 26:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 26:29

Okay. And uh, and and so she was rooting for us to get because we didn't do Hold On. Okay. We didn't choreograph Hold On. We started with In Vogue more like on the Funky Divas tour and the what's that album that had the Funky Divas album with My Love and Free Your Mind.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Never gonna get it.

SPEAKER_04 26:46

Yeah, never gonna get it is my first MTV award. Wow, okay. Congrats. Okay, and then Free Your Mind is my second MTV award.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

But hold on, Frank. Pop your shit!

SPEAKER_04 26:53

Yeah, and then the third award was Salt and Pepper in In Vogue with a man. The What a Man. And then the fourth one was Beyoncé's uh uh Crazy in Love. Then the one was Run the World and the other was Single Ladies. So it's six of them. Hold on, we just you know, and I've said that in a humble voice.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

No, no, no, hold on, no. Yeah Frank, sometimes in life you got to toot your own horn, you gotta pop your shit. Like speak on that. Those are those are accolades to go to think about it.

SPEAKER_04 27:20

Go from practicing law to becoming a political science major in a communication major.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

But you were going to try to be become a lawyer. Yeah, Chris. And speaking of lawyer, if you ever find yourself in a situation where you are injured in an accident, like these boys out here driving crazy with the text neck, they text in the driver. Somebody hit you. There's only one attorney you need to call, and that's Nicola Law, Wisconsin's number one injury attorney. You get the beer, you get the win, and make insurance companies pay. Holly my boy Russ in Nicola Law and tell him promise sent you. Proud sponsor, Austray from the Yap. What a great segue.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

It's a great segue.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

Yeah, but like you like it's so much. And and I want you to talk a little bit about, let's go back to Mike real quick. The Catherine Jackson story. Please talk to them about the video.

SPEAKER_04 28:09

I told you that story. Yes, me. You and is that at the gala?

SPEAKER_03 28:13

Yes, it was.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

No, no, no. You told me that prior. You told me that the first time we ever spoke, we were on the phone. You and I have a phone conversation. You told me about the popcorn. So I want you to.

SPEAKER_04 28:23

Oh, you interviewed me on the station. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

It's a radio station. Yep. Okay, guys. That's the first time we ever talked. Okay. And you told me about- How did I tell you that though? I don't know. We would just because Frank, you and I get together and we just be talking. Yeah, we do. And you told me about that popcorn. And that story always was.

SPEAKER_04 28:37

And you just called me out of nowhere about it? No. What does that mean about the interview? How did we no? Okay, so so okay. Because you know, I'm I'm I'm indebted to you for the rest of my life helping me with the galaxy. No, we're gonna talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

No, so okay, so how we got connected, this was Frank, this is almost four years ago. You you mentioned our mutual friend Andre. Yeah, so what happened is you were coming back to Milwaukee to put together a gala, gala gala, however it is. And Dre called me and she's like, Hey, you know Frank Gatsby. Okay, got it. And I said, of course I know the legend, you know, but they didn't know you, but I said, Of course I know who he is.

SPEAKER_04 29:11

So I told you that story in my interview. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

So we were we were talking, and you brought up uh Catherine Jackson and this changed my life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:18

So please tell the people who don't know about the popcorn. Okay, let's go back to the smoke criminal set. My first big $10,000 job.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

10 years.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

You know, I love that $10,000. I wish I'd have kept it, uh, but couldn't have the rent to pay in LA. Um, so so anyway, she comes to the set. Her, I'm so stupid. I'm so stupid. Pray for me, everybody. But she came with a cousin. It's a lady, cousin. No, I'm not gonna say. I'm not gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

You know what I'm saying, right?

SPEAKER_04 29:53

I'll just say those old noses were still there, okay? Okay, okay, let's say that because I think that gives context. And the reason that I say that, because that made them all black people to me. Okay. And that's what was so remarkable because you don't think Catherine Jackson and her family is black. You think they're some kind of goddesses. Yeah, yeah, right. Mary in the end. And um, and so they're sitting there and we're on a set, and I said, That's Catherine Jackson, that's Michael's mom. And I'm just sitting there, very nice lady, just so sophisticated. But the thing that changed my life is so simple. She was eating popcorn. You understand? And I say it was rich people popcorn. You know, this is a rich people popcorn. Because this popcorn was good to them. Yeah. But when she did like this, like, you know how women do that, take sprinkles, salt with their finger. Yeah. I went like in my mind, I'm not gonna say the N-word, but I say I said to myself at the N-word, okay. I said, they black just like my mama. I see my mama do that all the time. Yeah, and I'm like, wow, I can make it. That moment just made me know that they were human. It humanized it for you. It made Michael even more human. Yeah. Okay. That's his mama. Yeah. Like my mama is my mama, and she does that too. Get it? Yeah. And so that just made me know I could do this. I could really do this. But but but hell, I'm on Michael Jackson million dollar set. I got a gun shooting, you know. It's all just came like a but that simplicity, yeah, the simplicity of her eating that popcorn, doing that, and like a lady, like my mama, church woman, you know, changed my life. But then, you know, the other part of it. But about the at the crib, right? Right. So about Michael had died by then. This is 2010 or 2011, Michael passed away. Yeah, Mike died in Mike died in 09. Oh, she yeah, Mike died like 09. But I went to Ms. Catherine Jackson's house uh in 2016, I think. Okay. Or 15, I forget the year. And I'm with Chris Grant. Chris Grant is a protege of mine. He does Beyonce now, he's her choreographer, but he was like somebody I had discovered way back then. And we were getting ready to do something with Tito's sons. Okay. So we go to Catherine's big old beautiful house in LA, I won't say where. Beautiful house. I was so glad. That's right, that's how you leave your mama. You know, it's just a house spread out all over, security all over the house. And it's not a two-story house. It has upstairs, but hers is more about this one's level, ranch style, but ranch style 18 times out. Okay, I'm only going to imagine. You get it? Yeah. It's the Jackson's. You know, and so I tell Tito's son, TJ, what I just told you about this.

SPEAKER_05 32:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

And he says, please go in the kitchen and tell grandma, please, please, please, you know, and Chris is with me. He's my witness. And me, Chris, and TJ go into the kitchen. Catherine Jackson is sitting at the kitchen table. And these security guards are sitting all around and standing. There's so much staff in the damn kitchen with this woman eating breakfast, you know? And they look like, who's this crazy guy? You know, and I get on my knee next to the table where she's sitting right here, uh, like I'm proposing, you know. And I don't use the N-word because it's Kathy Jackson, okay? And uh I said, Miss Jackson, you know, when you came to the set in 1987, 86, 1986, do you realize that when you were eating popcorn and you did like this, I knew I could make it. And she looked at me. That woman took the crumbs from the toast and did the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

You know, I was like, hey, you know, and oh, I'm getting chill sick about it.

SPEAKER_04 33:35

You know, you see how full circle that came? That I'm in her home. Yeah. Oh, that makes me emotional, goddamn. Yeah. I'm in her home, man. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Sitting at on my knee telling her this story, all because of my life, my journey as something I dream of, and it happened. And now I'm in Michael Jackson, because that is the family of all families, will always be the family of all families. You know, she's still here, you know. Yeah, you know. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

I mean, come on, you know, Mike is the ultimate person.

SPEAKER_04 34:05

So so Chris got the witness there. I wish I had that on film, but I could tell the story.

SPEAKER_03 34:09

But but you know what's better than having on film, Frank? In this era, people are so stuck to the phones and videos, right? I always think that it's amazing to have memories. Right. Right?

SPEAKER_04 34:19

Because you And I had a phone that could have taken this, but that would have been but I think it's better that you didn't. Yeah, because that would have been rude.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

You have that, right? And nobody can take that from you.

SPEAKER_04 34:27

Yeah, and I got my protege, Chris Grant, who saw it, and he he made him laugh about it all the time because he's big time now. Yeah, he did Brunt Renaissance, he did Cowboy Carter, he did Coachella, and now you know, and I missed those checks.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

Now, homo, okay. Now, now we got we got we gotta we gotta address it. Yeah, because shout out to Mike Jack, Virgo, yeah, Beyonce, fellow Virgo.

SPEAKER_04 34:49

Y'all Virgos, yes.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

We here. I'm right after y'all, I'm a Libra. We gotta talk about it. I got Queen Bee on the wall. Frank, you were the creative director for Beyonce.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

Okay, let's let's let's give that context. Yes, since you're my people. Okay, 1997. Uh, because I've worked with Invoke, see how all of it just worked out? Yeah. That's why they called me to work with Destiny's Child. Because of uh Invogue. Okay. And so Camille York, shout out to Camille York, she was the video commissioner for Columbia Records. She says, Frank, I have this new group. They send me this picture. And uh, and you know, it's God is so good to me. God, thank you, Jesus. This place where I had to meet Destiny's child, it was right around the corner from my apartment in LA. Wow. Okay, Studio City. And so I go meet Destiny's child. Never forget it. Beyonce has on a Terry Cloth outfit, new tennis shoes. Just who is this girl? She looked at me, who is this crazy man? We just had this moment, you know, and there was Latavia, there was Latoria, and there was Kelly. But Beyonce was just like, I said, Who is this woman? There was something different about it. Even as a teenager. It was so amazing that I left that rehearsal after four hours. I was showing them choreography for no, no, no. Okay, and um, and I I went to everybody. I said, I just met the second comedy of Michael Jackson. People said, You tripping. I said, Watch. I swear to God, this is a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

So you saw something in the teenager that Beyonce.

SPEAKER_04 36:26

And you know, and let me give that context. My gift is to see. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I saw Usher, I saw Brandy, I saw Tevin, I saw all of them. Yeah. Okay, I see you. You know, that's why Janetta let me work with Usher. But but I saw Beyoncé. Um, and nobody believed it. And and and it was that. And then we went and shot the video, man. Went and shot the music video. No, no, no. And and that's the year I um I'm so stupid. I that's the year I bought my house too. Okay, because I had just did a job with Disney where I made a big old fact check. Have you ever seen Hercules? The cartoon? Yeah. Yeah, the anime, yeah. You know, the muses? Wait a minute. You you involved with I choreographed the muses. I had a big old fac check for that. Yo, shit. And uh, and and I uh Disney money, yes, no, but I wish I had a back end. Oh that's where I went wrong with that contract. So you but but it allowed me to have a down payment on a brand new house in West Hills, okay. Now, the reason I'm telling you that, and I'm not trying to brag about the house, but it was a blessing. And I they built it from, you know, it was new how they had those new developments and they build new houses, and I know that's right. Okay.

unknown 37:38

No, I don't.

SPEAKER_04 37:39

But just talking to the book. But I gotta tell this part because this nobody knows this part. Okay, now me, I grew up in Milwaukee, 18th and Keith, you know, uh, 19th and Hadley. And you remember those sprinkler systems that go like that? Okay, that's what I know about grass. But if you if you go back and look at no, no, no, remember the girls are on these swings? Yeah, yeah. And it's all this grass. You know what sod is? Yeah. That's that grass that's you know, so Dusty's y'all had hundreds of pallets of sod. And I just bought a new house. I said, can I have that?

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Y'all not you take the shit from the side.

SPEAKER_04 38:15

And they said, sure. So me and my boys got my little Jeep. We came about four.

SPEAKER_03 38:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 38:22

I took about uh 50 pallets. Okay, I guess what you call it. 50 side pieces, okay? And and and but what's funny, what's funny, it's I'm from Milwaukee, don't judge me. Okay, okay, okay. And uh, so I'm putting down the side on my brand new house.

SPEAKER_03 38:42

Yes, the front yard you didn't that you didn't took from the video.

SPEAKER_04 38:45

Yeah, exactly. Because it's nice brand new side. You know, video sets back then they had budgets. Yeah, you know, I even even the side that they were swinging on, I took that, but it has more of it. No, I didn't take the swing. Oh, okay. They had other grass that hadn't been used for the set, but I used the grass that was on the set too, because it was still fresh and it was good. So I'm laying the side down in front of my house one day, and this guy who lives in the neighborhood comes back, he says, Sir, do you know um this is Los Angeles, and you have to build a sprinkler system underneath ground because this is Hollywood. No, this is not Hollywood, he said this is West Hills, and and you have to water your grass three times a day. Wow. And the sprinkler system needs to come on automatically, and all the grass died because I didn't have that sprinkler system built in. Okay, you understand? So I got educated really quick. They came and put sprinklers in the ground, automatically come on. I had to go buy a new side, but I just think I had to that so that is that a good story? It's a good story to me. It's a good ass story to me. I'm sorry. Yes, that's good. But but anyway, but I but but but but but uh what I meant to say when we shot no no no, I have footage of it to this day. That girl was killing that camera. Like, who is this? That camera just loved her. Yeah, this 15-year-old. Killing it. Other girls were great too. Yeah, but Beyonce led that song, so she had a lot of close-ups because she was the main singer on there. Absolutely. You know, uh, and and that's that. I mean, I knew it. And then from there I worked with them for a minute, and then I started managing Tyrese.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Damn, I didn't know that for a while.

SPEAKER_04 40:22

Yeah, I started managing Tyrese, and that's a whole nother backstory to that. And so I got busy with Tyrese, but also I tried to get Beyonce and Destiny's Child to be the lead in My Way music video because I was working with Usher at the same time. And Tyrese was and then Tyrese is the reason that uh he's in Usher's video because I managed it, managed Tyrese at the time, but Usher wanted genuine. And he wanted Beyonce and Destiny's Child to be the lead girl. Okay, but schedules didn't work out. But for some reason, I feel like Destiny Child saw that I was all over the place. Management, Usher, that they we we we split ways for a minute. We, you know, and I didn't work with Destiny Child for a few seconds. And then uh Michelle came to my uh get up on a room tour. That's the tour with R. Kelly. Okay, and she saw what I had done with that and told um Beyoncé and we need to get Frank Gatson. And Beyonce said, I work with him already. And that's when I got back with Destiny's Child for the M the MTV TRL tour. And then I was with her. So when it was the newer version of Destiny's Child?

SPEAKER_03 41:30

No, it was just a like a Well, you said Michelle. So if Michelle there, it's not the original group. Yeah, but that came pretty quick. Oh well shit, you yeah. Say my name, say my name.

SPEAKER_04 41:40

Yeah, you know, that came pretty quick. So she took the tail end of that first album. Or the second album, writing. No, she was they, I think uh, God bless Latavi and Littoria.

SPEAKER_03 41:52

I think they had left somewhere near that. They left they left for writings on the wall. Because they on the album covered, they the first video they're not in is no no-no. I mean, excuse me. Say my name. Say my name is the first time they wasn't in the video. Yeah, but that's the new album. Because they was in bugaboo video and they was in uh pay my bills.

SPEAKER_04 42:09

Get me together. Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right. But it was too quick for me because I love those girls. Right. You understand? Like, like who is the who is who's Michelle and who is, but Michelle is the reason that I got back to Destiny Show because she came and saw a show I had put together, and they're getting ready to go do TRL tour. And I and I think Beyonce was letting her cousin choreograph named Janila from MC Hammer. Okay. But for some reason, they needed a show done right away, was the MTV TRL tour, and they knew I could turn it around really quick. Okay. And I came in there and worked with a young lady by the name of Kim Burst, who was the MD, the music director. Okay. And they just they I I I guess that's a compliment to me that I could do a show in a week and have it ready to go on the road.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

She'd still be well put together.

SPEAKER_04 42:52

Right, right. And so me and Beyonce got back together and Destiny's Child back together. I went on to do stuff with them. Uh, and then Beyonce went into her solo career, and then I was with her until 2016.

SPEAKER_03 43:03

That's a that's amazing. So working with Beyonce or working with Destiny's Child, then working with Beyonce as a solo when she becomes this scientist.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

And and I and I think it's really important to, you know, I like I gotta speak about Destiny's Child because I adore Kelly Rowland, I adore Michelle Williams, I adore Latavia, I adore LaToya.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

Well, without Destiny's Child, there is no Beyonce. So we can't.

SPEAKER_04 43:25

And but one thing that people don't realize when they try to make Beyoncé, that was Beyonce's group. Her father, yeah, made that group be what it is. They spent the money, they set it up, you know, because they had girls' time before that. I don't know nothing about that. You know, there was like six girls in the group.

SPEAKER_03 43:41

They were like a K pop group.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

Yeah. You know, and so Tina did all that, yeah. Yeah, right. So Matthew quit his job. I Matthew's probably one of the my favorite managers to work with because he always let me do Frank. He never got in the way of my creative. He just said, This is the budget, go do it, you know. And and I I really admire Matthew Notes for that.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

Well, let me ask you this, because a lot of us obviously are fans of Beyoncé, we enjoy who she is as an artist and everything. But like, what's something maybe about her that would surprise us? Like something that would make it. She's nice as hell. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:16

You know, she she's a diva on stage. Sure. She goes, she's you, she's a star. But that woman will walk in the room with her shoulder down like this, like nobody's noticing her. Beyonce, they notice you. And she always used to uh be bugged out that I could recognize that she just was really humble, okay, and shy. Yeah. But when that light came on and it's time to go, she hit it.

SPEAKER_05 44:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:40

And you know, you Virgos, you know, they they they they want things right. Perfection is a good thing. And you know, and I have to and I have to take credit for something. I I I polished her. You know, I put her in ballet class, you know, I brought girls around her. And me and her were like vampires. Okay. You you understand? Like, like we would, like, you know, single ladies is based on a Bob Falsey thingy, you know.

SPEAKER_03 45:04

Uh Frank, let me find out.

SPEAKER_04 45:06

You told her to do this. No, Jay-Z made that up. Oh, okay. Okay. And that was like Jay told her to do that? No, then they that's not that's let's not make Jay-Z a complete choreographer. Okay. Like what was happening, we were all sitting around like this, and and we were just saying, what do women do when they want to get married? And Jay-Z said it like this.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

Oh, put the ring on it. Okay. And then it just it just went to that. And that becomes iconic. Okay, you understand?

SPEAKER_04 45:33

Yeah. But he said that.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

Okay, so Jay said.

SPEAKER_04 45:35

And so I give him credit for that movement. Yeah, you know. Damn.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

Oh my God, Frank. Um, let me ask you this. You've worked with so many people, you've done so many things. You you have to teach, you have to work with people who are established, people who are coming up in the game. Right. Has anybody has it ever been difficult, like trying to get somebody to get on the page or do something you need to do? Has anybody ever like fought back or not wanted to? Hell yes. Yeah. Is anybody ever?

SPEAKER_04 46:03

See, see, see, the thing that that I have to say, there's two people that come to mind, no, three people that come to mind that gets it. They get it. Okay. That's Michael Jackson, Brandy, and Beyonce. They get it. Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah. You have yeah, you you know Brandy gets it. Just think about Maesha, Cinderella, all that stuff. Okay. She was she was the Michael Jackson before all these people. But people forget that. Yeah. But we reminded their ass with this boy's mind tour. Yeah, speak on that too. Okay, we understand. Like, that's what's so excited. I'm so excited about Brandy right now. We're doing some things right now that are gonna blow people's minds. Like, that was her concept to do the national anthem like that. For the NBA. Yeah. And then I was so honored that she that my girl group, the Kelly, I, that Kelly and I put together on BT. She wanted them to be part of it. She just had this great concept. And we were like, we were like Michael Jackson. And you know, I gotta, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put, you know, I'm gonna put Brandy in that Michael Jackson category because she she something's what went something happened. Oh no, Brandy different. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but yeah, but yet she people forget shit like that. I know, I know what you mean. That's why I've been there by her side, because I've wrecked, I I did I want to be dialed. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 47:21

Frank Popular.

SPEAKER_04 47:22

Okay, you know you understand? Like that's my jacket. She's laying next to other floor. But then because she got different management, we went our separate ways. Yeah. And but we came back together. Uh, I guess it's now 13 years. When the 211, we really, not the 211 album, the one with Wilders Dream and Chris Brown. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 47:43

Not not Aphrodisiac, the one afterwards.

SPEAKER_04 47:45

Yeah, but I did I did Human, I came back to her on Human. Okay. Okay. And then I really worked on the uh, that's the 211. 211 album. I really did a lot of work on that. Like put it down. Yeah, the one on Wild's Dream, yeah, Chris Brown, and all that stuff. But but I'm so excited about what we got cooking. Yeah. Okay. You you understand? Yeah. I got another one. Who says that? Somebody says that. Oh, you're talking about Khaled? Yeah. Another one. I got another one. It is it's exciting because I was you you didn't see the boys' mind tour.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

No, and I don't remind me that I missed it. And it was just like magic. First of all, to have the two of them come together. Which was Brandy. That was Brandy's concept. So that was amazing to see Brandy and Monica do that.

SPEAKER_04 48:33

You understand that? Let me put that on record. That was Brandy's concept. Okay. She's been begging Monica to do that for a while, and Monica said yes this time.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

And especially after they did the birth, it's like it was perfect. But I was so happy for them, you know, how beautiful they looked on that essence cover together, to see that tour together, for especially for me to be a millennial. That's like our childhood. So to see them come together and do that tour and to be successful, um, and then for you to be a part of that. So, Frank, for people who don't know, talk a little bit about your actual role on that on that mega tour.

SPEAKER_04 49:04

That was a very difficult tour for me. Okay. Because um, like I'm I'm team Brandy, I but I had worked with Monica before.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

But I know Brandy, your girls.

SPEAKER_04 49:14

Yeah, I did uh Every Time the Beat Drop video with Monica. I did a promo tour with her. I was there the night that Whitney passed away, and Brandy and Monica were supposed to perform at the Clive Davis and Granny. Wow. Yeah, they it was gonna be it was gonna be Monica, Brandy, and Jesse J. They were doing a tribute for Dinah Ross that night. Okay, but they didn't do it because Whitney passed away that night. Wow. So I'll never forget that night. I was trying my best to get them to do it, but they didn't. You know, they just were too emotional to do it. But me, you know, the show must go on. And I even said some stupid stuff like, Whitney would love for y'all to still go on, you know. That's just how wrapped up in show business that the show must go on. It was like fine. So so coming into the tour, Monica had a creative director, and I'm Brandy's creative director. Okay. Uh but luckily the creative director that Monica had, he paid more attention to the content.

unknown 50:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 50:08

Okay. The stuff that goes on the screen, which he did a brilliant job at. So I was left bringing the dancers together, bringing the music together, bringing the creative together on stage, making sure that we had a great light designer, you know, the things that I had always done.

SPEAKER_05 50:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:25

And and so I brought Chris Grant in to do it, the guy who worked with Beyonce. But I pulled that across the stage. What'd you say? I pulled that up on stage, yeah. Opening night in Cincinnati, and it blew my mind how well it went. You know, and Brandy, you know, she got that bug again. You know, uh, she's she's that's why she showed out with the national anthem. You know, I think that's one of the biggest things she's done since the tour.

SPEAKER_03 50:56

Yeah, I'm gonna say so.

SPEAKER_04 50:57

That was national TV, eight million people. I I think that's pretty big. Absolutely. And so she came really hard, you know. And so now uh I can think I can say this. Her and Brandy are getting ready to do Brandy and Monica are getting ready to do St. Lucia. They're coming back together for a show there on May 10th, I think it is. Yeah, May 10th. You know, so that's exciting. Yeah, that's exciting. Yeah, yeah, you know, and I hope that they take the boys' mind back out. Because that's a lot of markets they didn't do. We didn't do Canada, we didn't do Europe. So but for me, I witnessed how much the audience loved that. It was just such a joy to see all that hard work paying off. No, that's that's Frank, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

Yeah, now we since we're talking about Brandy and we alluded to a little bit earlier. Let me briefly talk about the time you almost drove me crazy. So, Frank, remember when you came to town for the gala, and I was so honored to not just talk to you, but then you asked me to do something. Shout out to another legend, MC Light. MC Light was uh supposed to voice something and couldn't do it. And you you had talked to me and you said, You got a good voice, you do radio, read this for me. And and I still have it and I use it in my reels or whatever, you know. Like I got to read the the lineup for the awards that night. And Brandy was, of course, uh scheduled to be there and invogue a bunch of people. And then I remember it went from me first just talking to you to recording that for you to you saying, Hey, I would love you to come to the event. And I remember you telling me, dress to the nines, come in your best shit, you know, look good. And I was excited to come to the event. And then you called me again right before the event, you said, Hey, I need you to come down here uh to do some voiceover work for the for the show. So I remember I was supposed to just come for rehearsal, right?

SPEAKER_04 52:43

But at that point, just so you understand, I was still waiting on MC Lite to send me the voiceover. Yes. And and she got busy doing a movie with other. Well, she do the Grammy, she threw the BT. But of course, I wanted her there. Of course. But she has she had said, Frank, I can record them for you.

SPEAKER_03 53:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:02

And send them and send them, and it didn't happen.

SPEAKER_03 53:04

So just think about that. I am honored that I am reading in the place of MC Light. I see on the on the page, it says MC Lite, and I'm like, I get to read in MC Light's place, so I am honored. And I remember at that time I had my morning show. So I had been up since three in the morning, a long day. I came down into the venue. Remember, we were all supposed to just be doing run-throughs. Right. And I was supposed to be able to go home, get myself together, and then come back. When I tell y'all Frank Gasson Jr. was like, everybody go home. I remember being like, Frank, I said, uh I ain't getting nothing to eat. You said, order some food for y'all get some food in here. And I remember at that time, at first, that was my first time getting to work with you. And I remember first being honored, but then being like, man, this is crazy. Like, I'm only supposed to be here to help and for the rehearsal. Like, I want to eat, I'm gonna go home, wash my ass, I want to get dressed. And then I remember at first being frustrated with you. And then I remember thinking, like, if this man can push these greats to want to be better, who am I to argue and fight with him? And let me check myself and say, I can I can bear it, I can thug it out. And I remember you were supposed to go home and get dressed to look your best, and you was like, I ain't changing either. You said, We together, we're gonna thug this out. And me and you did not go home and change, and we did that whole show. And when I say that shit came together so well, I was honored that I got to voice that over with you to see you behind the scenes orchestrating that whole event. And I was just forever like, I know Frank Gasson Jr. Like, not just that I got to meet you, but I'm like, nah, I know this guy. And I remember you that next day, I think it was, you just hit me up. You were like, hey, I really appreciate you for helping me out in this situation. And I just had so much respect for you, you know. But like at that first moment, I was like, man, this man is crazy. He's talking about I can't leave.

SPEAKER_04 54:56

But you're making yourself, you, you, you, you're making yourself be better than you were, okay? Like how you reacted, okay. Like I had to pull out the gangster Frank, you know, because you wanted to go home and get sharp, you know? And and me too. I had I had luggage though. Yep, you had and I had a room at the stage. You was the guest of honor for that event. And you know, and I had decided, Frank, you got to go deep. Because I guess what it was, out of everybody, and no disrespect to anybody, like the stage manager was brilliant. He was a guy who had done Beyoncé for years. You remember the guy, Terry Cooley? He was a pro. Okay. And he helped pull it together. He was in the trenches too. Yep. Uh and and and Andrea was in the trenches. So we sat there. Remember, we sat there the whole time for like four years. She was the only one who got the lead. And Dre had to leave because she was on stage. Yeah, she had to go across the room. I had to get her a room across the street. You had to get that woman a room. She's gonna be back. And she was back like I had no, I knew she was gonna come through. Yeah, but you were somebody I never met. Yeah, and and and and I said, he's good. He's got to do this with me. Yeah, you know, we can't leave each other's sight. We the only ones gonna get through this show. Yeah, you know, and and and and I don't know, was I rude? I guess I was kind of rude. I said, No, man, you ain't going no fucking place. You know, I had to come out of my face, you know, because you were serious about going to get sharp. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I was like, I was like, I gotta go get dressed. I gotta you was you gonna help me out, yeah. But I gotta go shower and put on my outfit. Okay, you know, and I said, You can't do that. Yeah, we we stuck. Yeah, we gotta get this done. Yeah, and you I guess a girl pulled you to the side. She did. He said, you know, because because you were a little like you wasn't giving me push, like you know, but I but I but I I I why did I ignore that? Because I was older, yeah. Okay, and you ain't been where I've been. Absolutely. You understand? You know, and and and and I took that privilege by saying, This young brother's gonna get schooled by Frank D. Gatson Jr. today. Yep. And and he's gonna remember it, and here I am. Look, God, yeah, oh yeah, you know, you know, I wish you all the luck in the world. And it's you know, I've seen how okay anyway, that that's God. Yeah, that's I call that the entertainment guys. Yeah, do you understand that? That's that's important. It had to happen. You know, that that moment had to happen, and I respect you for it because you sat back there. Like even we had even a laundry list. Remember the laundry list and we kind of got out of sync, yeah, and we had the picture going like so and so involved. And then I think you saw your name was wrong on the script. So yeah, and we fixed it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:43

I think it was yeah, because that's why we had to go live. Yes, yes, because remember we was you was like, we got to get because you had me do the whole thing. You was like, nope we're gonna do it. But we had to do it all because your name was wrong. What would you call fresh? I don't remember what they had.

SPEAKER_04 57:58

Yeah, they had you wrong. They had something because remember, we were getting all the content from my content guy in LA. Yep, verbatim. Out of market, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But we got it done. And I thank you, man. No, and I thank you, bro. You know, you know, it it was you saw Frank, who that's why people hate him, and love him. Yeah, you know, you know, I I've gotten better, I gotten more tactful, you know, because you can't say certain things like used to. Everybody's so stamp sensitive.

SPEAKER_05 58:26

Sensitive, yeah. They are.

SPEAKER_04 58:28

They are, you know, and show business to me is like a coach. Yeah, you know, this ain't for everybody, yeah. You but you know, like you never see I play basketball in uh in college sometimes, like you know, three three on three. And I had a coach, he never talked nice to us when we missed a free throw. Yeah, he never talked nice to us when we didn't pass the ball, yeah, you know, running line drills, and that's how I treat show business. Yeah, you know, I'm the coach and I'm trying to make you great. Absolutely, you know. And listen, yeah, life ain't easy and life ain't nice. Show business is not like life. Yeah, let's go there. Yeah, think about it. This show business is nothing like life. It's unfair, it ain't right, it's all about who you know sometimes. It's not right. Yeah, it's not fair. There's some intelligent, there's some really untalented people doing things that don't have the chops to do things, yeah, but because they have the connection, they get in, and you know, it's just like this is something weird to me that I want to do in Milwaukee with my performing art center. I can't wait to make a male singing group. There's never been a superstar male singing group in a long time. Since what do you think? Since new edition? Jackson 5. Not even New Edition? I'm talking about stars. You don't think New Edition was? Nobody has become Michael Jackson. I love New Edition, don't get me wrong. Well, nobody could. Mike is Michael. But but Bobby was being Okay, but the Jackson 5 was a phenomenon. Let's say. I would say that the members of New Edition have better careers than the Jackson 5. But don't look at it like that. Look at the the the the okay, the two biggest black male groups to me are the Temptations and the Jackson 5. That's fair. That's all I gotta say. Okay, that's fair. New Edition is in there. Okay. I also love New Edition. Okay. Okay. I love them. They're wonderful. They had Bob the Bell Bib Devotee came out of Johnny Gill, Ralph Stresvant, Bobby Brown was incredible. I almost I was almost a dancer in Mount Prerogative. Damn. Okay, I didn't get that job because I was late for the audition. You know, but I but so but I'm just saying in my book, okay, Jackson 5 and and Temptation Date. They had everything. Yeah, very different. You know, that that's that's the standard. Okay. That's why the K-pop people are doing it now. You know, they basically K-pop is. Yeah, but they they they're they're doing RB. Think about that. That stuff is RB music, and they dancing, the pot is polished, it's polished down. Like so that's something I have a dream of doing to make something on the level of let me let me be nice to New Edition. Jackson 5 meets new edition, meets Usher, meets temptation.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:08

You understand? Okay, yeah, yeah. There's no way that anything can be bigger than a black male group. That's my theory. Okay. Because it hits all demographics. You think so? Yes. Straight men would love them. Okay. Gay men would love them. Okay, yeah. Women would love them. Yep. White women would love them. For sure. The world would love them. Because you do you realize there's something I read the other day, and this proves my theory. The most attractive man of the world is a Nigerian. That's all racist. That's like a pole. That's a pole. Okay. Okay, so that soul that those brothers have are going to sell the records. But what's so sad, why haven't an executive thought of that? Because New Edition is still there doing that, making money. But they're not somebody 17 to 25. No, they came out young as hell. Okay. But you understand? So that's a no-brainer. Is it because men run the business that there's not a great, amazing black group? Just not groups anymore in general. No, I don't agree with that. Why are the K-pop people doing it? They're the only ones. I'm talking about. This male group I'm talking about, they will walk in this motherfucking room right now. No, no, better fact, they'll walk a city social around the corner and the room will stop. Black people are like that. You understand? Think about it. You know, you're too short to be in a group. See that. They all got to be six feet above. Wait a minute. Cisco was the lead singer group in the group. See, but that's the problem. So people always talk about B2K. They're too short. For what this, this, this big gonna come on my show and body stam. I'm not body staming. I'm trying to make you understand that this group that I'm talking about, the K-pop people showed me what I'm talking about. Like a blueprint. They're they're with their culture, you can't count that money they're making. And they're global. So now come back to, I believe in my black brothers. You know, Kobe Bryant is in the group, Tyson Beckford's in the group, but they gotta be able to sing and dance. Okay? Okay. Okay, everybody gotta be able to blow. Yeah. And their steps gotta be cold. Okay. Think about it. Yeah. And you can't say to me, look how passionate I am about it. Because they're just not doing groups anymore. No, motherfucker. They nobody's got the sense to do it but me.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:29

I'm the one with 11 nominations. I'm a visual motherfucker. So for Chris. No puppet. Okay, you understand?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:36

I help create Beyoncé. I help perfect Usher. You understand? And so for me, I think it's the most frustrating thing. There's no way a female group can be better, bigger than a black male group. No way.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:51

And you think the record label's just missing it now?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:54

They just don't get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:54

They don't get it. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:55

They're stupid.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:57

They're stupid. That is a no-brainer. See how adamant I am about that?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:01

Yeah, you want to see better.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:02

And K-pop is proving it to me. They popping, yeah. They got eight motherfuckers in the group. Yeah, they deep. You know, I only want five.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:11

Yeah. Six for the better. What would the name of the group be? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:17

But you want to and I think Milwaukee has them.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:21

Some of the members or the whole group, you think?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:23

Some of the members. Some of the members. Okay. There's a lot of black folk here. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And I mean this with the bottom of my heart.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:30

So, Frank, you want to you want to develop and find the next successful male group.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:36

Boys to me, boys to men. No, wait, wait, wait, not boys to men. New edition meets Jackson Five, meets Temptation, meets Usher. They didn't dance a lot. I'm gonna be polite. Oh, I see now, Frank. Okay, they can sing their asses off.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:51

All right, Frank, before I get you out of here.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:53

No, no, I just saw I love Boys to Men, but I saw them on this tour the other night. They were wended when they were doing the steps. Well, yeah, a lot of these people let us everybody ain't just. That's not the point. That's the point. Have you seen Bobby Brown dance? I've never seen them dance that hard ever in a long time. And I saw them, and I love boys and men. I much respect to them. And I'm happy to see Michael reunited with the people. But but but once again, I I the almost the only politically correct way I can say it, you know, when these five men walk in the room, everybody's gonna stop. Like, who the hell? It's kind of like Rihanna. You ever seen her walk into the room? I oh I worked with Rihanna. Pop your shit. Okay, I forgot about that. I did SOS. I love Rihanna, and I and that's some scandal why I had to leave her. That was so messed up. Damn, we gotta do a part two, Frank! You know, but but when that because the the way I worked with Rihanna is is that uh it was a World Music Awards, and and we did a tribute to Destiny's Child. Now I used Tierra Marie, Anne Marie, and Rihanna. They were the three girls that played. Michelle, Kelly, and Beyonce.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:02

And the first day of rehearsal, Rihanna didn't come. And everybody was thinking Tier Marie was the big thing. And you know, but that woman, Rihanna, walked in the room next to the who is that? To just be like, just lit the room up. And we start working together. Yeah. And then that's a oh, that's a tell you that story. So we we become friends at that thing when they do the tribute to Destiny Shaw. And then one day we're at the Bible Wars, and I get a tap on the shoulder, and it's Rihanna. She says, Frank, I got it. And she's talking about her SOS album. And we work, and I love her. I would love to work with her again. I would love to work with her. Is that Rocky? I understand, sir. I would love to work with her. Oh my God. So it's that thing. It's that thing that I can see. It. It's an it thing. Yeah. You understand? Yes. Like even like Tyson Beckford's a good example, not because he can sing, but that man became a supermodel with dark features, full lips in the night. You know, you know, those things matter. So I guess because men run the business, I think black men especially, they're intimidated by other good-looking men. I'm not. Does that make sense? Yeah, I understand. Think about it. Just think about it. That's simple. So therefore, this, and then what's also frustrating. God, why did you do that to me and Kelly Rowland? Our second season of Chase and Destiny, we were supposed to put together a male group. Which when it was on BET? Yes. Remember, we did the girl group first.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:31

But they canceled our show. They didn't renew it. And I would have got it right. And if and then already, I'm gonna give you some good old info right now. Remember Trevor Jackson? Yes, of course. He was already somebody I was gonna have be on that show.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:46

Back then.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:47

Yes. Wow. So that's an example who could have been in the group because he sings, dance, and acts. And he acts, yeah. And he can really sing.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:54

Right. He sang the hell out that uh that that song in that new commercial. People had to Google it. It was him in the background. You understand?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:01

So, so so you gotta respect that. You can't say that to me that groups can't work. No, I wasn't saying that. I was just saying. I think people gotta it's gotta be another Michael. It's gotta be another Beyoncé. It's gotta be another brand. You ain't looking for them, you fucking AR people who just stayed acting cool, go to all the fucking parties.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:21

Go look for them. Get in the fucking car and go around the world, go to the church, go to the high school. Black folks are talented. Yeah. Come on. And everything. You know, that that's a no-brainer. And if me and you made a company right now, we're gonna get in your car and we're going to go find our group. And we're gonna find them.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:39

We're gonna go find the first.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:40

Just think about it. All these people, kids, every kid thinks they're a star already, you know, with his Instagram and social media stuff. Right. So I'm see how adamant I'm about that. Yeah. Like I'm gonna, one more thing that I gotta say. Okay. Okay, like I had 11 male dancers with the boys my tour. They were co-starring with Brandy and Monica. Go watch the tapes. Yeah. Now they had the swag of the movement, but some of them couldn't sing. Yeah. But they could dance their butts off and they were over six foot. That was the requirement to be a dancer for Brandy and Monica. No, I can't have no little short motherfucker looking at Bonica and Terry, Cindy Monica, and Brandy's titties. They gotta be able to look him at them in the eye. You get it? Think about it.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:27

Okay, so why would you have a short guy? No disrespect. You could be with Christina, you could be with Christina Million. You could dance for her. You could you could be her leading guy. You got it? You got it? I'm not making, I'm not being real. I got you. You I respect you. Okay. But but there's something about me when I was a dancer, I used to hate for girls to lead me. I would squeeze their hand. You ain't leading this. Okay. Come on at a start of play. I I love when I'm gonna get in trouble saying, I love when men epitomize men on stage, and I love when women epitomize women on stage. That is who I am, okay? Because a lot of guys today dance very effeminate. I don't pay for you to dance effeminate on my stage unless it's that kind of show. Gotcha. Okay, so Brandy and Monica, everybody's like, oh, those boys are so good. They they da da da. That was Frank Gatson having a requirement. Okay. I don't care about your sexuality, but on this stage, you're gonna dance like a man. Gotcha. You understand? Yeah. Okay. And I know that she I hope I don't get in trouble with that.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:28

Frank Gatson Jr., ladies and gentlemen. Frank, before I let you go, real quick, we gotta play a game of first and last. I'm gonna ask you a first, I'm gonna ask you a last that may or may not be connected. It's time for first and last with Frank Gatson Jr. Frank, what is the first thing you do when you wake up? I hate to say this.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:48

Okay, I look at my phone. Ah, Frank.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:51

Yeah. You gotta give yourself a woo-sa-woo before you open yourself up to the world.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:59

No, I just got a lot going on, bro. So look at the phone. That's only now. If I'm not working, I don't. Okay. But but it's like I like I'm getting in the habit of now turning the phone off at night. Off not even silent, just off. Off. Okay. Because I hate when people have that thing on the phone that says, I'm in silent mode. Yeah. That's stupid. Okay. You should just cut it off. Yeah, that's kind of like if I'm in show business, show business operates 24-7. So I try now to turn it off at night, but I shouldn't.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:33

Because when I work with artists like Brandy and Monica's and Beyoncé's and Ushers, they got concepts at three in the morning that they want to tell you about.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:45

That makes sense. You understand? So that's kind of wrong to even do that. And once again, show business is not like life. Think about that. It's different. It's a different world. And you got to give it 100%. It becomes your lover, it becomes your madam. It's everything about it. You have to love it. And that's why I'm happy about it. I love what I do. Because I watch my mother get up every day to go to Master Lock. Okay? When I was a kid. Yes. You know, and that was not cool on a cold morning when it's snowing outside.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:18

Well, grind for your mother. I respect that. Frank, who is the last person or what is the last thing to inspire you? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:33

Oh shit. The K-pop people. BTS? No, just the K-pop. Just a general machine. It's just deep to me. Okay. Because they're doing us. Okay. All right. I'm again trouble for saying that too, but I mean that. Okay. They're taking what we do. They've trained those kids from two and three and four years old. They come out dancing and they are flawless. But what they lack is soul. I got you. And I I'm saying that I meant that. Full chest. Soul. Frank Gatson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:08

Canceled on the straight from the yep. No, all right. You alluded to this a little bit earlier. I think maybe we were talking before we started filming. The first time you got fired.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:22

Oh, wow. So uh I love you, Janetta Patton, that's Usher's mother. Usher. Like uh it's a stupid story, but I gotta be honest because that's what TV is about. And she and I talk about it today. So when Usher first started, uh Usher's mom was somebody who was saying they ain't gonna spend all my son's money. You know how like a mama juror, they're really they really love their children, and they're very important. It's just something else before I finish. Have you ever noticed the acts that have their parents being managers blow up better?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:57

It is a good streak up. Like you think really big ones. Brandy, Brandy Beyoncé.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:02

Come on, that's the that's that's enough. Okay, those four. Okay, right? Yeah, that's enough. And I think it's because families are more honest with their children.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:12

So, so, but of course, Janetta had somebody else managing Usher. Of course, Brandy had somebody else managing her before a mom. But but Janetta had us stayed in these hotels that were not really great hotels in dangerous areas of the city, but you couldn't really say nothing because he's in there with us. Yeah. But me with my big mouth and stupid stuff, I said, Janetta, um, you don't need to have us in those dangerous hotels. You know, uh you could write that off. You know, that's an expense. Yeah. And she thought I was rude, and I got fired.

unknown 1:14:50

Bam.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:51

But I got hired back. Yes. All right, last one. Frank, when is the last time you needed an injury attorney?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:06

Oh, my sister needed one. Uh, not me. You know, somebody ran into her with the van that I brought back from um LA really bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:17

Well, that's super unfortunate. And if something like that does happen, you need to call Wisconsin and the Midwest number one injury attorney. That's Nicola Law. You get to be or you get to win. They make insurance companies pay. Hit up nicolelaw.com for more. Tell Russ Promise sent you. Wow. They may still need her. Frank, this has been amazing, sir. I could talk to you forever. It is an honor, man, to have you come to the Yap House. Thank you for taking out the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:47

I told you a lot of stuff I shouldn't have.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:50

Bob. Thank you, Frank, for coming. Frank, if people are not following you, uh please give out the social media so they can tap in.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:00

Um, you know, I don't do much social media, but I am on Instagram for business reasons. And you can follow me at Frank Gatson, G-A-T-S-O-N. My name, Frank G-A-T-S-O-N. Don't do G-A-S-T-O-N. That's those rich. Those are those rich people. I'm the son of a slave, son of Gat. Okay, that's that's what all those names mean. Son of John, son of Donaldson. Okay, for Frank Gatson. And dance. What is five, six, seven, eight? What is that? Where does that come from? Oh, that's a good question. Okay, so I I think it's related to music. I think in the bar, there's usually four beats. One, two, three, four. Okay. Right? Yeah. Do you understand that? Yeah, like bars, like in the song, three, four. Yeah, because a hook is eight bars. Right, but so five, six, seven, eight is the end of eight counts. That's usually in a measure. I'm I'm I'm I'm this is how I look at it. Okay. So if you go one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, you go five, six, seven, eight, I gotta start on one. So that's the beginning of the choreography. So five, six, seven, eight, one. But also you can go one, two, three, four, because you want to do the five, you want to start on the five. Yeah. Say if something's, if say if I'm rehearsing and I want you to start on the five, don't start on the one. I go one, two, three, four, five. Okay. So it's just somewhere where you, or like when you're listening to music, you wait for the five, six, seven, eight. Five, six, seven, eight. Go. Go. Yeah. Okay. So it's just a meter that can get you into the choreography at the right time. I always just wonder. You know, and even in like uh ballroom dance, one, two, three, two, two, three, two, two, three. That's a different kind of counting. Okay. So it's just different phrasings to make sure that the dancer. And also, like if I give you a four count. One, two, three, four. Okay, what's four? Four? What's four? I just did four. The last step? That was four. Yeah, that was so say, so I say you're not doing four right. Oh, so you may have to hit four. Or you're not doing five right. Yeah. You know. Okay. But but you won't. So five, six, seven, eight gets you to the beginning. So five, six, seven, eight, one. But maybe, but the next, but it, but every step is in eight counts. One, two, three. There's eight counts. Okay. So one, two, three, four, five, six. No, it's eight counts. So counts are like a map. That step is on one. Okay. No, that was on five.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:41

No, that was on six. Yeah, you know. But it always starts with five, six, seven, eight, so that you can start on one. Okay. That's my logic now.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:50

Next, y'all have to have Frank in here. Have me. Frank, again, I appreciate you coming through. Honestly, thank you for being here. This was great. It's my pleasure. Absolutely. Make sure y'all like, follow, and subscribe. This has been another episode of Straight from Yeah. We'll promise we get with you in a minute. You're right now. It's not a threat. It's a promise.