Ep. 3 - Frank Dobbins

We sit down with Frank Dobbins (@bourbyourenthusiasm) to talk about whiskey and our adventure paragliding off of the Teton mountain range!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the podcast. Today we have a very special guest, my good friend Frank Dobbins. Frank and I have been having one hell of a week. It has been so much fun. We're gonna talk about that a little bit, along with uh the nerdy stuff that we're into and a little bit of uh you know Frank's history and how he got into whiskey. So Frank, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Nate, thank you for having me. And also, we've been having an incredible week, so thank you for everything that we've been experiencing so far. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

I mean, you guys will all see in the video coming up, but we have been, well, at the end we jumped off a mountain. I mean, we had a lot of fun leading up to that. We sat in a river, we got to see a lot of wildlife, we got to film a lot of really cool stuff, and then it all just culminated with literally jumping off a mountain with nothing but a parachute and another human strapped to our backs. Yes, thank goodness for the human. Because honestly, if we were up there by ourselves, it would have been trouble. Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm I'm very happy that it wasn't uh my own my own doing. Well, as we start the show, I mean, we gotta drink some whiskey, right? Oh, let's get into it. Awesome. So, for our first pour, I have something very special. This is the last of the bottle. This is uh the Wyoming whiskey the grand. There were uh three different iterations of this. Each of them are a single barrel, each were approximately 130 bottles. So we're gonna be getting rid of uh one 130th of all the whiskey of this in the world. I'm sure there's plenty more gone, but this is my favorite uh whiskey I've ever had from Wyoming whiskey. Oh, I love that. Hands down.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

And that's a great way to kick things off because this is my first time being in Wyoming. I already love what Wyoming whiskey is doing, so let's go ahead and do it. Kill it. Look at us. Bottle down. Alrighty. Well, if you have one of these out there, then uh you're in luck because it just got even more rare.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

And I hope if you're at home, you're joining us with a glass. Cheers, brother. Cheers, Frank. Oh, yeah. Man, oh man, that's good. It's very different. These were these were one of the uh the final batches where they actually had rye in the mash bill instead of wheat. So that makes it even more rare.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Ah, that's really cool. Yeah, you get some of that spiciness. I mean, it's really full-bodied. I get some like smoke and some maple candy notes that are really interesting. And we actually went to the Wyoming whiskey tasting room. Uh, where was that? In Jackson Hole?

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yeah, in Jackson Hall.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Yeah, earlier today. After after jumping off of a mountain, it only makes sense to go drink more whiskey. Naturally. But that was a fun time. Having some of those whiskeys there and getting reacclimated with what Wyoming whiskey does, and then having this, this is like really elevated for what they're typically doing. I love them already, but this is another level.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Yeah, these these are definitely some very special bottlings. And of the three, this is by far my favorite. And so, you know, it's been sitting there and it's getting low, and I was like, we gotta kill this at some point. And what about what better way to do it?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Oh, absolutely. Especially after the day that we just had. Like, this is the most Wyoming day I've ever experienced. So this is a great way to cap things off.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Yeah, we're both running on adrenaline and and very little sleep, but I mean, that's what the great days are made of. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

And a little bit of whiskey, too.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Come on now, give us some credit. Yeah, and a good amount of caffeine, but uh isn't that everybody? I thought so, honestly. So, anyway, Frank, uh, let's get right into it. Uh ironically enough, for for everybody listening or or watching, uh, Frank and I we we met in person for the first time just over a year ago. And little did we know, we grew up literally 15 minutes away from each other.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Yeah, that was a wild surprise. I loved that.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

An instant bonding moment. So, yeah, we both grew up in New Jersey. Uh Frank still resides there. I got out of Dodge, you know, four years ago.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Yeah, five years ago.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

But but um, yeah, we immediately bonded uh on a trip with uh Westward out in Oregon. Yeah. We went whitewater rafting together, we sat in the front together, yep, just getting splashed, and afterwards, like, you know, Frank, I'm I've got this idea for a podcast. I really want to do it and I want to do some cool stuff in it. And I was like, Do you want to jump out of a plane? And what was my answer?

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Yeah, hell yeah, absolutely. I was like, perfect. Well, there's my guest. Yep, it was a great time. First of all, we were already doing so many extreme things on that trip. You could have asked me to do anything. I would have gone to the moon with you, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, that was that was a great way to kick it off. And then uh look at this. A year, a little over a year later, we we weren't able to get a a plane to let us jump out of it. It's very difficult to do that at this elevation and with the wind, but we did find paragliding, and and my goodness, it was my first time ever doing it. Obviously, Frank's first time, it was so serene, so incredible. A little less uh adrenaline than jumping out of a plane, but the views we had coming off of the Teton Mountains was it was just it was spectacular.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Yeah, I mean the experience itself was incredible, and by the way, let's not sell it short. We literally jumped off of a mountain. Yeah, so I mean, a little bit less than jumping out of an airplane, but still pretty freaking cool. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Definitely that moment of the heart drop into the stomach where it was just, oh, I'm up in the air, and then the beauty took over and it was just smooth sailing, as they say.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Well, for me, it was interesting because it was like you get that first adrenaline rush when you jump off of the mountain and it's extreme and you're like feeling it, and then you get that serene moment right afterwards where you're just enjoying the view. It's almost peaceful. You're looking over all this incredible view, and you're just like, wow, I'm really in the air. I am the Wright brothers' wildest dreams right now. And then at the end, I know you had the same experience that I did where we kind of did a little bit of an extreme loop-de-loop and we were like kind of flying around. We got to navigate it ourselves. So that part was really cool. And I think that kind of got the adrenaline back rushing before we landed. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Uh, yeah, it was it was it was truly an awesome experience and one that I will remember for the rest of my life, no matter how much whiskey I drank. But yeah, I mean, uh it's it's uh it's fun, man. Breaking out of your comfort zone and trying something new is such a rewarding experience. And uh, you know, I I honestly was expecting you to be a little more nervous on this because you know, you've never done that before. Sure. And man, you were just in the pocket the whole time. You were you were ready to rock and roll.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

You know what? I I trust you fully, Nate. Anything that you send me off to do, I'm going to just be a good soldier and say yes, sir. Yeah, let's not let's not uh let's not put that in writing.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Um yeah, man. So uh let's let's learn a little bit more about Frank. I've deliberately tried to just live in the moment with you for the past few days and just really have a great time and not delve too much in your personal history. But you know, let's let's start with the basics. What what got you or inspired you to start drinking whiskey and then just kind of pushed you off the precipice into an obsession?

SPEAKER_00 6:21

No, that's a that's a great question. I think honestly, for me, I had one of those moments where you kind of sit down at a bar, and I feel like I've seen this in so many movies. The guy next to you sits down, he goes to the bartender and he asks for his usual. So that happened to me. I sat down at a bar and the guy next to me asked for the usual, and I was like, huh, that's really cool. But what is my usual? Like, what would be my go-to drink? And at the time, I really didn't have one. I didn't have any experience drinking alcohol, I didn't know what to ask for. So I was like, you know what? Let me kind of just go down this path and figure out what that's gonna be. Uh for me, I tried a bunch of different things. I ended up gravitating towards bourbon, so that's what I started drinking more and more and more. And I feel like that initial reaction to say, I want to find my usual, it's pretty much the journey I'm still on today. I'm still looking for that next flavor, for that next bottle that's just gonna be my perfect, you know, perfect pour every single time. And I mean, there are some great ones out there, there's some that I really, really love, some brands that I've gravitated towards, but I'm still excited by trying the next best thing. I completely get that.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

It is, it is almost a pretty much a never-ending journey to find that. And you know, just with the whiskey industry the way it is. I mean, I started off 12 years ago and there were I think 80, 85 operating US distilleries creating whiskey. So I mean it was pretty easy to try everything. Now we're over 3,000. I mean, it's it's nuts.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Yeah, it's a fun journey. I will say that. I've been having a great time along the way. But I mean, that's one of the reasons why I really enjoy it is because you get to try so many new things, and it's always exciting. Like when you see a new brand pop up, you're like, let me just see what they have, let me see their flagship, let me see their expensive bottle, and then you go back to the old faithful, and old faithful has a new expression. I mean, there's always something new to try.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah, so um, what what what kind of uh got you into the like writing sphere? What was your first gig? Like, I know I worked in bars and restaurants since I was 17. And you know, I got a job at the age of 24, which was pretty young, working for a whiskey brand. That was kind of my segue on top of writing and reviewing and photographing whiskey. So, what was what was the thing that kind of uh launched you into writing? What was your what was your first gig? And then what about that gig made it where you were like, this is what I want to do?

SPEAKER_00 8:27

You know, I've always been in writing. I went to school for broadcast journalism um at Hampton University, so shout out to HU. Honestly, for me, it was the fact that I loved writing already, and then 2020 happened. And as you know, it was uh a tough year for a lot of people. So I was sitting at home, I had a lot of alcohol at home at this time because I was really, really into whiskey, and I wanted to find a way where I could work remote, and I wanted to find a way where I could write something that I was passionate about. And being so interested in whiskey at that time, as I know a lot of people were, I decided, you know what? I'm drinking, I'm writing, why don't I write about drinking? It just made natural sense. So, really 2020 is what kind of kicked things off for me and getting into writing. My first gig in the writing sphere was um something that I really appreciated, and it gave me a lot of creative freedom to kind of express myself and explore whatever expression that I wanted. And then from there, I kind of uh just pursued it, kept going down that path. And then about a year and a half ago, I started writing at Uprocks, and that has become like the perfect place for me to be at this point in my journey.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Yeah, man. I I absolutely love the list you compile of different whiskey brands for people to try. Uh, I I know a lot of people personally that really gravitate towards those. You know, as someone who writes basically individually, uh, you know, individual bottles and reviews, and you know, once like at the end of the year, I'll I'll compile like you know, my favorite pours of the year in different categories. It is really fun for me whenever you put one of those posts up because I'm like, okay, what do we got? And oftentimes, like you and I, other than Jack Daniels 14, agree on Shh Daniels 14. Agree on a lot of uh a lot of a lot of whiskey. It's cool to hear. And and I love that because I mean there are there are absolutely people who I I respect that write in it where I'm like, we don't, we don't, you know, feel the same about a lot of a lot of bottles or a lot of taste profiles. But uh I know when I read what you write, I'm like, yep, that's basically the same take I had. Or if you write something that I haven't tried yet, I get real excited if I know that bottle, if I can, if I can get that bottle or that bottle's being sent to me, because I'm like, oh, Frank liked it.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

I'm pretty sure this is gonna be great for me too. It's been really fun because I've seen some of your feedback. Obviously, we're friends, so we've been talking about some of those lists and some of these new whiskies that come out, and like being able to compare notes with you and say, like, oh, Nate's really into it, also, that's super cool for me. But I think one of the interesting things that's developed since I started writing for Uprox is that now I start thinking kind of in the Uprocks frame of mind. Like when I try something, I'm like, what category would this fit in? How would I group this with other bottles and uh how would it compare? How would it shake out? Like, we had some rye the other day, and in my mind I was thinking, huh, how would this do as like the best rye of June? And how can I compare this to some of the other rye that have come out recently? So it's fun for me because it kind of furthers the way that I got into this industry and like the way I started thinking about whiskey initially, trying to find that usual or that best thing or that thing that I would always go to. Now I kind of just have that mindset of always being comparative and always trying new things and having that in mind to compare one thing to the other thing.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Yeah, that's awesome, man. So uh over the past several years, what are what are some of your favorite uh improvements that you've seen in the whiskey industry when it comes to either like um uh quality or or uh variance and taste profile? Like, what are some of the standouts where you're like these people are doing it right?

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Ooh, interesting question. I mean, I think that a lot of brands are doing it right, you know, and a lot of brands, because there are so many distilleries that are coming out now, like you mentioned, the industry has grown so much. I think a lot of brands are really anxious to show their stuff and differentiate themselves from other people. So seeing some of the cool new things that brands are doing, even old brands. I mean, you have a brand like Wild Turkey, for instance, that's innovating, trying new things, or going back to the well and saying, you know what, 101-proof bourbon is great for us. So let's try it at a different age statement, putting out a 12-year or an eight-year or the 70th anniversary bottle. So seeing the way that legacy brands are kind of innovating or embracing their history, and definitely the craft brands and the new brands are kind of saying, How can we stand out by doing an interesting finish or you know, doing a different production method that will make us stand out from the rest of the craft whiskey pack? That's the coolest thing that's happened over the last few years for me.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah, I mean, there's just uh just a plethora of of amazing brands or you know, uh, as I said before, like like there were so few distilleries when I started working. And and now it's like, you know, Albert Distillery reach out and they have their own distillates like seven years old.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

I'm like, I've never heard of you. When did that happen? Yeah. What is this?

SPEAKER_01 12:46

And and a lot of the time it's fantastic. And and and and I love those surprises where it's like, you know, I remember when I started, and not not to knock on it, but you know, the craft distillery thing was starting to boom, and it's a lot of young stuff, and it was it was a little rough. So, you know, my initial reflex when when I'm sent something that that is new or that I haven't experienced before is like, oh boy, that that's that they might not know what they're doing. You know, I've judged whiskey competitions where I've literally just nope, not even gonna for me, it's not even gonna make it on the list. That's it's not gonna, it's not gonna fly. Sure. Um, so I absolutely love uh receiving a bottle and and you know it's it's kind of like a a learning moment for me where it's like you don't want to pass judgment right away. Of course. Yeah. And you know, regardless of what the bottle looks like or or what the the the copy says they have out. So it it's just a breath of fresh air nowadays where it's just I just can I can get blown away by something that that I've never heard of or even thought of.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

No, it's so true. I think that's one of the cool things now is that the craft brands, to your point, that we've been experiencing over the last few years, now you're looking up and they have six-year distillit, seven-year distillet, eight, nine, ten, and you're like, wait, when when did this happen? I was drinking you four years ago, and oh yeah, it was six years old four years ago, so now it's ten years old. That's really cool. So experiencing some of those younger brands kind of come of age and really kind of come into their own, develop a house style and just give you some cool liquid that can stand toe-to-toe with the big boys. Like, we're in, I think, a renaissance period where a lot of American whiskey brands are able to stand toe-to-toe with each other. Like the competition has leveled, the playing field is even, and now we're truly seeing the guys who are doing it right and gals uh who are doing it right start to shine. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

So, um switching gears for a little bit. So obviously, you're on the road a lot. A little bit. You're you're you're traveling off and you're visiting distilleries. What's like one of your favorite experiences, other than jumping off a mountain, of course, that you have uh done with a brand that that like that not only perhaps enhanced the experience of drinking it, but just maybe on like a personal level, like it gave you something that was very interesting. It doesn't even have to be an experience or just something you learned uh while you were doing something for that brand.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Oh no, I've I've got my answer. And it's kind of cheating because looking you in the face and hearing that question, I'm like, you know what? You were there for the other experience that was really, really cool. Uh, we had an opportunity to go up in a helicopter and do a whiskey tasting in a helicopter over a mountain range. Um, for me, that really sticks in my mind. Because not only, I mean, who gets a chance to do a taste in a helicopter? I mean, that just doesn't happen. It was incredible, but also the fact that like a helicopter is intimate. You know what I mean? Like it's it's closed off and you get this incredible view, and it's just me and you. You know, I mean, we had brand people. Yeah, let's let's be clear. But a pilot, thank God. Well, yes, I wasn't steering. But I mean, it that was such a cool experience because I think that it gave us an opportunity to appreciate the liquid itself in that unique setting and always identify that whiskey with that setting in that experience. So that that definitely stands out in my mind. I thought that was incredible.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yeah, we also uh did possibly the first ever uh helicopter dilution method. Oh yes, that's right. Just hang the glass out of the window while it's raining. It was raining. We were going into thunderstorms, and there was water coming off. I'm sure this was not healthy. No, but the water was coming off and dripping out of the window, and I just diluted it, and I was like, that's how you open up a whiskey in a brand new way that I don't think has ever been done, and to this day I've not seen it done. It may not be recreated, it might be next year, but it was definitely a unique thing to do. Yeah, that that experience was super cool, and and it definitely uh inspired me in a way too, where it was like you gotta think outside the box and think of different ways. Uh, I I didn't I didn't think that we were gonna be allowed to bring a whiskey while paragliding. In fact, I'm quite sure they would have been upset if I whipped a flask out of my pocket, but I was tempted. Yeah, I was definitely tempted because I'm like, come on, who's done that?

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Exactly. Well, we did the right thing. We had it afterwards, we were very responsible, and to their credit, we offered some of the whiskey to our experts and they declined. They were like, I don't drink and fly. I respect that. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

If I do remember uh correctly, they did say it's actually kind of too bad the weather isn't inclement, because if it was, we'd be off the clock and we would join you.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

If only.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yep, yep. Shout out a shout out to Paragliding Jackson Hole. They were absolutely fantastic. We, you know, they knew that we were doing a shoot, but they weren't uh aware of of this of the scale and that what how prepared we wanted to be. And they they just were like, okay, we're gonna send your your videographer here, and uh this is the spot you want to be. And they were just super accommodating and they made the experience just absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

No, it's true. Even our guides had their own GoPros and they were like, look, we're ready to shoot. Like they were prompting us. I was getting interviewed while I was in the sky, and I was like, dude, like, are you are you Nate right now? Wow, do you want his job? You're doing great.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah, it was it was it was awesome. Yeah. Circling back a little bit to the previous question. What are some interesting lessons you've learned that you would not have learned if you weren't in this industry or doing what you do? Like, what's something that's improved your life in a way just from embracing your passion for this spirit?

SPEAKER_00 17:56

That's I'm really glad you asked that question because I think about this a lot. Being in the whiskey space and having the passion that I have for it, I feel like I understand so many people from different walks of life in a new way now because I have a connection to something that isn't just mine. Like this is something that people from all walks of life appreciate. You can sit down at a bar with anyone and just share this in common. And I feel like when I look at other passions or other hobbies and I see people get really excited about them, I'm like, oh, I I understand that feeling. I know what that's like. And I think it kind of gives you uh common ground to relate to people, and it makes you realize you don't necessarily have to like whiskey for me to find common ground with you. You don't necessarily have to like anything that I like, but as long as we can kind of sit down and agree to disagree or agree to agree on whatever it is we're discussing, let's just be humans and just have a conversation. Like I think that's really leveled the playing field for me in terms of understanding other people and wanting to have conversations with other people and just relating.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Yeah, I mean, the spirit is in the spirit. I mean, it's it's it's something it's something that's just like a very cool thing, and I totally agree with you. There are so many interesting people I've met over the years working in this industry. Um, one of my favorite stories is actually when I was working in France uh for Micters. Nice. And uh I was over there in the Alps for a week, uh just you know, repping and moving cases. Tough job. It was yeah, it was beautiful. Actually, the toughest part was the fact that it was, you know, 12 hours days, and I'm just surrounded by these gorgeous mountains that I'm not allowed to go hiking up because I don't have any time. Fair. But I ended up at um this really cool bar, uh, French, obviously. And the owner didn't sp spoke very little English. I speak zero French other than saying grand teetons. But he uh, you know, I I sat I sat down there, I just sold him a couple cases of whiskey. Okay, and he had a bus boy that that spoke pretty good English that kind of translated for us for a little while, and then his shift was over. And we just kind of communicated without using language. He he got all excited that I was a nerd, and he would pour me blind samples of stuff, and I would have to try to guess what it was. And we're talking like green glass papy, like compass box the general, like top, top shelf stuff. And we hung out for like two hours and maybe spoke two sentences, and we're just smiling and nodding, and I'm like, oh, the facial expressions are so good, and and he agrees and brought me over a ton of fondue, and we're just dipping cheese. It was and I stumbled back to my hotel at the end of the night. But it's it's true. It kind of when you're passionate about something, it transcends language. Yep, and it it you kind of just break through that barrier, and when you have something uh in common with someone, it doesn't matter what language they speak, you know, what ethnicity they are, their sexuality, none of that matters. Sure. All that matters is that is that you have a similar passion, there's something so pure about that. So I absolutely love that answer. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Yeah, I I agree a hundred percent. And I think it's also interesting because going behind that a little bit, it's like when people are able to relate in that way, they're also still bringing their life experience to the table. But you might think about things in a new way, not paying any regard to their sexual orientation or the ethnicity or where they come from, but they're bringing that experience to the table and you get a new perspective, even if you're not thinking of it in that way, you still have an opportunity to think of things in a new way. That's the coolest thing to me.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Travel and and passion and being able to, like, you know, get outside and ex experience something new, whether it's a culture or an activity or or a new country or something like that. I mean, it's uh something that improved my life immensely. Because, you know, when you're when you're kind of stuck in your own little world and and and you don't really get out and see what else is out there, you know, you just start to form your own opinions on everything. Yeah. And then you just get into this echo chamber and it's just but when you're in an industry like this where the the the common thing is, you know, the whiskey, it doesn't matter. As long as as you like whiskey and and you're passionate about it, I mean there's just you can just kind of go from there. And you might have so much more in common with someone that you wouldn't even look twice at before.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

No, it's fair. And I I think there there are kind of the the known unknowns and then the there are the unknown unknowns. And sometimes when you have that meeting of the minds and you kind of meet with someone who is From a different walk of life, you don't even know how much you don't know. So learning more and having an opportunity to do that when you're drinking with someone is fantastic. And I think for me also, because we've talked a lot about whiskey, but there's so many people in the beverage industry where there are people who are passionate about agave spirits or rums or whatever the case may be. And again, you can kind of have that base level understanding like you really love spirits. Now it's not my spirit of choice, it might not be a spirit that I know a lot about, but I understand your passion and I relate to that passion. And look, now we can have a conversation. That opens the door.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

That's a really good point. I I like that perspective because I mean it it it it it goes beyond the passion of a specific thing, it's just passion in general. If you see someone passionate about anything, even if you don't care about it, I mean there is a sort of bond that you can form with that person. You understand it. Yeah, exactly. It's like, you know, I I'm not gonna ever be a tequila person or enjoy math. Okay. But I'd hang out with someone that does that because I get that that feeling from them where they get that joy from something, and I get joy from something, and then you're like, oh, we have a connection.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

I mean, even at the mountain today, we were walking, and uh the guy from the paragliding company he saw us and sought us out and he had a conversation with us, and he said something like, I uh came here in Wyoming 38 years ago, and then 38 winters passed, and I'm still here, so I guess I'm a Wyoming now. And it was just like, yeah, I get that. Like you kind of fall in love with something, and then you look up and the years pass by, and you're like, I'm in this now. Like, this is my thing, this is who I am. So being able to see his passion, I was like, Oh, I I get it.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

It is interesting. I mean, I I can definitely attest to that. Like when I moved here, it was just an instantaneous I'm home now. You know, it was just I just knew.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

I mean, you you saw the Nork in the the skyline, right? Like, yeah, I I totally like it looks like Jersey when I landed.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Very much so. I love I love that that good uh Elizabeth and Patterson smell of the mountains. They do have a waterfall in Patterson. Shout out to Patterson. Been there, and they also have a delicious hot dog stand by it. Yeah, and many other things. So, what is your favorite place that you've traveled to for like uh it doesn't have to necessarily be a whiskey excursion. I'm just assuming that might have something to do with it.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

I mean, if we're talking whiskey, uh going to Portugal was fantastic. Going to Porto. Oh, I'd love to go there. Yeah, and seeing the historic city there, it's just absolutely gorgeous. Going into the Wine Valley and the Port Wine Valley, it was incredible in the Douro. Uh, that always stands tall for me. I think in general, probably my favorite place that I've ever been would have to be South Africa. Really? I really loved Johannesburg and I thought it was gorgeous. It's a really cosmopolitan city, and you get kind of that New York vibe, uh, which obviously I relate to being in New Jersey, going to New York all the time. I really appreciated that. But then going from Johannesburg to Cape Town, and the way I describe it, which is I apologize to anyone from Cape Town listening to this, this might not be the best way of describing it, but I look at it kind of like the Miami of Africa. Interesting. I mean, it's like a party town, you get the the water right there. There were penguins on the beach. I was like, this is the frickin' place for me.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Is that the one with like those uh those that those big like cliff rock structures? Table mountains that was called. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like the the the clouds kind of roll over it. Oh, you're a cloud expert moving to Wyoming. You you know your cloud experts. No, I've I've seen uh I've seen uh videos of it, and I was like, damn, that's that's super, super cool.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

It is a sick place. I mean, it's one of the few places in the world I was like, this competes with New Jersey. Yeah. Oh Jesus. Have a drink. Have a drink, please. I'm gonna do a sip of that.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Ah, man, that was good. So, what does Future Frank have for in in store for him, do you think? Any any fun plans coming up?

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Well, I will say that over at Uprocks, we are working on a beverage show. So I am going to be hosting that, drinking cocktails with some really cool people. We just filmed the first episode of that a few weeks ago in Chicago with Rick Wilson. Um, it was a fantastic time. I mean, Remy Martin is sponsoring it, and uh they provided some really good cocktails for that one. So we have a few more episodes coming up. Uh, hopefully we can extend that a little bit beyond what the uh date is for right now, but that is something that I'm having a lot of fun with is being in front of the camera, talking to people, having cocktails, and really delving into the cocktail scene a little bit more, and obviously embracing cognac. Like that's something that's really new to me, but also really cool.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yeah, cognac is a pretty awesome transition for a bourbon drinker. Cognac, armignac, rum. We actually just did an epic rum Armagnac and Cognac tasting with my good buddy Mike Gilmore. Oh my gosh, I'm still paying for that. Oh, yeah, yeah, it we we were up pretty late. Uh, but yeah, he he uh owns a brand and and buys single casks, uh, all at cast strength, no dilution whatsoever of Armagnac, cognac, rum, whiskey, and my god, we uh I I kind of had it as a little surprise.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

I was stunned a little surprise for you. I was stunned. Honestly, when we came out and I saw the lineup, I was like, wait a minute, Nate, you sly dog. We had just come off the lazy river, which was a cool experience. We came back here, and in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, we're gonna take it easy, we're gonna relax. I have the lazy river in my mind, so I'm just like, we're gonna cruise along. I go outside, and there's just a whole smorgasborg of different expressions, different spirits, and Mike is just sitting there waiting for me with a grin on his face, and he's like, You ready to drink? I'm like, Yep. We had to switch gears pretty quickly, but it was fantastic, honestly. And that was my first real experience with roaming road. So being able to dive into it with Mike, try all those things which were incredible. I was like, This is a fantastic surprise. You nailed it, sir.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Oh, he he does an incredible job, and you know, he travels all over the world, like he hand selects the casks at the distilleries, he doesn't get samples shipped to him, nothing like that. Cash strength, everything. Yeah, no dilution, but yeah, truly, truly an awesome, awesome tasting. And one that I was very excited to present to you since, you know, yeah, we drink whiskey, but it's so much fun to delve into other spirits.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Oh, absolutely. And I mean, I drink other spirits anyway as part of my job. So being able to try them, you know, single cask, undiluted, like that for the bourbon drinker makes perfect sense. Everyone who drinks bourbon, they're like, I want it at 159 proof. Give it to me as strong as you can. If it's a single cask, even better. So being able to try that in rum, Irish whiskey, cognac, I was like, give me more.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

That's fun, man. And that's one of the reasons I I've really enjoyed this trip, is you just go with the flow. Like it's just kind of like you're like, all right, this is this is what's happening. And you know, that's that's a good thing in in life in general. You can just get so many fun and pleasant surprises just by just doing what feels right. Like even the other day, uh, I was like walking my dog, and I just looked at a certain point in the river, and I was like, you know what would be fun? If we just set up some chairs in the middle of this fast-flowing, very cold river and just shot the shit and drank some whiskey and just talked. And I thought it was just gonna be a quick little kind of jokes type. We were there for like an hour and a half. Oh, yeah. We came one with the river. Whiskey in the river, and a moose showed up to hang out with us, which was wild.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Yeah, the moose actually drank. We got that off camera, but he was joining us. Mustafa, we called him lovingly. Yes. That was that was my friend. I mean, honestly, I bonded with him.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

He also inspired me for the name of my future bar, which I'm not gonna say on this podcast because someone will steal it. And I have not trademarked it yet.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Coming soon.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Well, it's gonna be some years down the line. Let's be real. But yeah, one of the things I love too as someone who I would I wouldn't say I I'm I'm really a planner. I definitely have my own way of seeing how I want my life to unfold, and and and I've proven myself time and again that sometimes you just gotta go with your gut and just take a little risk. Something that that that that I've always done that has worked out great for me is is I have an insanely voracious way of pursuing what I want. Ah, yes. You know, uh, when I started off whiskey with a view, the looks I got when I would tell people I'm gonna get paid to hike and drink whiskey, they're like, You're not gonna ever do that. Shut up. Who's gonna pay? Who's gonna figure that out? No one's done that before. I'm like, yeah, exactly, but I'm going to. There you go. And it took a long time, and I was broke for most of my life. Fair. But, you know, if you if you just doggedly pursue something that you really love and want to do, and you don't accept no for an answer, it's achievable. Yeah, and it's something that I try to tell people all the time is that when you have a passion and and you are going to have people that say you can't do that all the time. And there are gonna be moments in your life where you're like, why am I doing this? And you know, I'm not saying it's gonna work out for anyone, but if you give it a damn good shot, there's a chance that it will work out. There you go. And if you don't take that chance, you might be stuck in some job you hate, and you're just sitting there going, I regret not taking that, taking that risk.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Sure, so true. Yep. I I was there in 2020. I I'm so glad that I took my shot at the whiskey industry. I'm so glad that you took your shot at pursuing whiskey with a view because we wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for those two things.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

No. I don't even want to I don't even want to think about where I would be if I didn't if I I don't either, honestly. I because I'm scared for a good job. Oh, alternate universe Nate is definitely uh either a an arch villain or dead.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Well, I know what happens to Alternate Universe, Frank, because we experienced that at the Wyoming whiskey tasting room. Apparently, there was a Jersey man who was gored uh yesterday by a bison. He's alive, he's fine. From from Randolph, too, so like oof, 20 minutes away from us. Well, I'm glad he's alive because in an alternate universe that's me, so I'm still alive in another universe.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Nice. That was that was a uh I don't want to say funny because it's not funny for someone to get hurt. I just think if you're gonna try to pet a bison, I just don't Oh, is that what he did?

unknown 31:37

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Oh walked right up, walked right up to a very, very large 700-pound territorial animal and thought everything was gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

I would not even do that in an alternate universe, so I don't feel bad anymore.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

No.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

I mean, he's fine. If he died, I'd feel bad. Well, I just got rid of my glass. Um, so let's switch it up a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

You uh brought out a really, really special bottle, and I felt like to cap off the day that we've had, the adventure that we've had, the experience that we've had, we should uh have a pretty epic and baller bottle. So you were kind enough to open up your entire shelf, and you've got plenty of bottles. Uh, I could have picked any number of things, but I feel like most people would agree that this is a good choice. Um I'm just gonna spring it on you right here. I went with George T Stag. Oh, what a horrific choice.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

I mean 2024. Ugh. Is this 2024? I didn't even realize I just grabbed it off of the shelf.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

But dude, I mean, I feel like this warrants jumping off of a mountain. If you survive that, you want to have some George T Stag. Absolutely. May I? Pour it up, sir. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

All right, there you are, sir. Why thank you? Lefty pour. Well done. That's good. Yeah. Heck yeah. Oh, it's been a while since I've revisited this one. I I I try to keep my special bottles for guests. Sure. You know, I get access as as you do to a lot of really amazing stuff. Absolutely. And so when I'm, you know, by myself at home or just uh on a casual night with some other people, you know, I I try to drink, I'll obviously drink something I enjoy. Yep. But bottles like that, I want to save for moments like this.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

It's true. I mean, when you survive jumping off of a mountain, I feel like you have to go for an epic pour. And I'm the same way. When I have this bottle at home, I don't want to just drink it on a regular Wednesday night. I want to bring it out for people who are special, for events that are special, occasions that are special. And uh today definitely fits the bill. This is a George T. Stag day, my friend. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Cheers. You know, I I have something similar. Um, I'm horrible at keeping bottles closed. Ah. So a special occasion to open a bottle could be a Monday. Oh, sure. But to drink that bottle again, then it's like, you know, I want to wait for something more interesting. But you know, I'm just so impatient. I'm like, I gotta try it. You're impatient, really. I didn't notice that about you. No one has. Not one person.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Damn good. Damn good. You know what's interesting to me is I feel like having the Wyoming whiskey, having the side by side, both excellent. Absolutely. Both fantastic. I mean, I think both of them are really the pinnacle of what each distillery is doing. That's cool. I like it.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Yeah, it's it's the creme de la creme. And I I'm sure uh you feel the same. Well, actually, I don't know if you feel the same way. If someone just puts BTAC in front of me, the Buffalo Cross Anti collection. Yes, sorry. Uh you're speaking shorthand. Yes. I the f the bottle I'm just immediately gonna gravitate towards is the George T Stag.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Fair. No, I think that it's interesting. Year to year, there's always always a lot of variance. Yes. George T. Stag stands tall for me. It's one of those things that made me fall in love with barrel strength bourbon. But depending on the year, I might go to William LaRue Weller. Uh last year I really enjoyed the Thomas Handy. And then, of course, Eagle Rare 17 sometimes pops up. I think Sazerac 18 for me is kind of the the dark horse. That's the one that I don't reach for all the time.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Yeah, I I've heard I haven't had it recently, but I've heard it's kind of going a little downhill. And I I think stag honestly is the most consistent of that's I think that's what it is. Not only is it great, but it's very consistent. What is an unpopular opinion that you have about whiskey?

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Oh. Uh that it can be enjoyed at 10 a.m. and it's professional because that's what I do for a living. That's fair. That's an unpopular, you know, opinion. Uh, but really, I think an unpopular opinion about whiskey is that it doesn't make a great cocktail. I'm sorry. I I enjoy an old-fashioned, I enjoy uh, you know, a black Manhattan, you made me a fantastic one earlier. But beyond that, penicillin, maybe, but I I really don't drink a lot of whiskey cocktails. I like my whiskey neat, but if we're doing a cocktail, uh just a paper plane, maybe uh I I'm just not in love.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Well, now that I introduced you to paper problems. Oh, talk about the paper problems. So, paper problems, we're gonna have to shout out Ben Dietrich for this uh single malt alliance on Instagram. He he put up a story one day where he made a paper plane but substituted Mezkel instead of bourbon. Fricking genius. And I immediately was like, I gotta try that. Yeah. And my God, did it oh well I I call it a paper problem because it's just I'll just crush them. Yep. Like they just go down so smooth. And and for those of you listening that don't know what a paper plane is a classic bourbon cocktail. Well, not classic, actually a new, new cocktail. Um, it is uh equal parts lemon juice, Aperol, uh Maro Blanco, and uh bourbon, but uh substituting a uh darker marrow, which um I like to use Montenegro, just a touch of agave, uh, and then uh the uh Mezkel. It's just oh my goodness. That's when we were on the the Lazy River, which is actually just an irrigation canal that goes through town, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

We're calling it a lazy river now. It is a lazy river, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

It's like the perfect speed and depth to just float on a tube for 45 minutes and enjoy a fairly large koozie of delicious paper problems, which I will be continuing to introduce to every single guest I I bring on this this show.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

As you should. I I was stunned. Honestly, when I first tried it, I was like, okay, in theory it makes sense, but I want to experience it. And when I tried it, I was like, oh, it's sweet, there's citrus, it's smoky, it's kind of savory, it has all of those things. And I mean, I think that your future guests will really enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Yeah, and again, thank you, Ben. Ben, I would never have tried it before. I I also made a little more uh, you know, per people don't like smoke, uh, using a Blanco tequila and then lime juice instead of lemon. Interesting. Very good as well, but I prefer the mezcal because it just brings in that other dimension. And what tequila do you use for that when you switch it out? Uh the Urete. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah. Or or like the bar that I work at sometimes, uh Luna Azul. I think, I mean, I'm not a tequila person. I'm sure don't know if that's good, but people like it.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

So I was thinking Lalo personally, but I mean, you know, if you're a agave spirits person out there, like please experiment with it.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

There are innovations to be had.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

Like, I love making cocktails for people. I don't drink them that often. I I I've I very much like base spirit. Yeah. Uh, you know, uh once in a while I'll have a cocktail with whiskey. But you know, when you spend years and years as a brand ambassador traveling to bars, you know, all over the world, uh uh you just it you've had so much and and also the amount of sugar. I mean, just it just gives you such a dis destructive hangover the next day if you have too many. Um there's there's another something interesting. What's what's your favorite bar you've been to? Oh, okay. This one this one can be interesting. So now oh wait, let me okay, let me read the phrase. Let me read your phrase. Go. My favorite bars are trash and I love dive bars. Like those are that's my thing. Yeah. Okay, let's let's let's let's switch it up a little bit. Like a like a craft cocktail bar, or just a cocktail bar in general.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Okay. If I'm going craft cocktail bar, where am I going? Attaboy in New York. Fantastic. Um, but me personally, like I I love craft cocktails, I love mixology. Uh DC has a lot of great craft cocktail bars. Uh, I might go to Allegory for something like that. But I mean, I'm I'm a whiskey bar guy, you know. I I appreciate dive bars, I appreciate the dinginess and the the shittiness. But honestly, for me, I really just want to see a great selection. So when I'm thinking of a bar in my mind, I'm thinking your Jack Roses, um, you know, I'm thinking Delilah's, which I was at recently in Chicago, shooting the first episode of our show for Uprocks. Um, so the classic whiskey bar, travel bar in Brooklyn is probably like the local haunt that I want to go to the most. That and Brandy Library are probably the two best bars in New York City.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Yeah, those those ones are definitely awesome. That will always be for me. I for my my favorite craft cocktail experience I ever had was actually Mexico City of all places. Ooh, talk to me. Yeah, so um I was uh opening the market for a brand there, and uh we were told we were there for uh it was like kind of like a a BCB convention, like a big convention there. A lot of industry people in town, yeah, etc. And you know, Mexico City is definitely a fascinating place. Yeah, probably the most polluted place I've ever been to, too, when it comes to air quality. It's rough. But you're like in an 8,000-foot bowl. So it's like middle of summer, I'm in a suit and I'm like, wow, it's actually cold at night. Like this is pretty wild. But one of the last days we were told, all right, we're gonna go to this bar. Uh it's called Hanky Panky.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Oh, that sounds like a fun bar. I'm going there every time.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

And uh the geotags will lie to you. You have to know someone that knows where it is. Okay. And you walk in through a just a standard run-of-the-mill street taco stand.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

And you walk up to them and they say, you know, what do you want to order? And you just go hanky panky. And they go, What? Hanky panky. They test you. Yeah. And they kind of look at you for a second and go, okay. And then you walk into the walk-in fridge, an operating walk-in fridge. Okay. That has a false wall on the back. Oh my gosh. You push it open, you go down a flight of stairs, it's like a 30-person speakeasy bar. Oh, hell yeah. And when I say these are some of the best cocktails I had, not only just by flavor, but like I had a cocktail that they put on a remote-controlled car and zoomed across the bar and just parked in front of me. Like, it was one of the coolest things I've ever seen. It's like a Toy Story cocktail. Yeah. And then and then you exit out through an operating false back uh soda machine.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

It was it was one of the most amazing experiences I've ever had in a bar, and my my favorite that I've had in like one of those craft cocktails.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

That makes a ton of sense. I mean, it's super cool, super unique, and it's a if you know you know kind of experience. Yeah, that that tracks. That sounds really cool.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

And I'm not sure. Now, this was back in like, oh god, like 2016. Oh gosh, they could have so now it might be it might be more popular, and maybe they're they're they're like more advertised. But back then, yeah, yeah, you just went and you just had to know someone that knew where it was. And and thankfully, our our distributor there, uh also in the Mez Kell brand, they they just were like, there you go, we we'll we'll we'll we'll set you up. And it was so cool.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Well, I I I do have a question. So, what are your favorite bars in the Wyoming area? Because I feel like we went to a few that were super cool, and I'm not sure if those are the top of the top, they were really incredible, but are those your favorites that we went to?

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Yeah, so I mean Million Dollar Cowboy and Jackson is probably my favorite bar. Oh my god. It is it is the perfect blend of cowboy, kitsch, but dive, and just so much character. And the inside is beautiful, and you'll have bands that like you know play in stadiums that'll play in front of 400 people. I love that. And it is, you know, not super expensive. It the vibe is great. I've never had a bad time there. Wait, the bar stools, can you talk about the bar stools or literal saddles? They're not comfortable to sit in. Uh yeah, for like stand there. For 20 seconds, it feels great. It's really great for the gram, but that's that's it's it's not great for your ass. It's just you get saddle sore at a bar. Not but again, for the just for the vibe, it's fantastic. Yeah, and people love it. But yeah, I love that. Jackson Jackson has a great bar scene. I mean Silver Dollar, it's fantastic. Silver Dollar is awesome. Uh the rose is great as well. Nice. Some fantastic restaurants. And you know, it's just it gets super busy. Yeah. The tour tourism season in the summer is is is you know, it gets to be chaotic. But I I love going the off season in like October or um you know, when the parks are kind of close to closing. Sure. And there's no one there, and you get like uh one of my favorite experiences ever was going up to Yellowstone. Uh and it was a week before it closed, and we had j it had just gotten like eight inches of fresh powder. And we went up to all the thermal springs with all the colors. Oh gosh. And it was my girlfriend and I, and we basically had the whole thing to ourselves. Oh, that's beautiful. And it was absolutely stunning. It was majestic. I love it. I'll show you some pictures later. I but it it was just like one of those things where it's like brings a tear to your eye. Like, like I get I get emotional with nature. That's super cool. Like when when I see a beautiful view or a combination of a view and And sound and scent and it just hits you all at once like a wave. Yeah. It's my favorite thing. Yeah. You know, coming from an industry where I was around people constantly and working in city to city, and I've always been outdoorsy. Like that's not like a new thing to me. But coming out here and and getting that every single day, uh, and getting spoiled by it. Yeah. You know, you you do kind of get a little numb to it in a way and accept it as just the way of life. And selfishly, one of the things I absolutely love about having people out on this podcast or just visiting in general, is yeah, getting to see that that awe in their face when they step off the plane and see the Tetons for the first time.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Oh my gosh. It was magical for me. As soon as I landed, I was looking out the plane's window. I was like, wait, this isn't real. I can't believe they put green screen on the plane windows. That doesn't make any sense. But it was absolutely gorgeous. It's such a stunning view. And I mean, I really can't hype it up enough. I feel like if you don't experience it, you really have to come here and see it for yourself. Yeah. Because if you don't experience it, you're gonna think that I'm just kind of spouting off. But this is truly like a magical place as soon as you land.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Yeah. And I mean, there's there's so many places like that in in the country and world as well. Well, sure. But this this one, you know, to me is obviously quite special. This is your little corner of the universe. It is. But but I love being able to, like I said, almost selfishly, vicariously live through someone else's experience while they get to see that for the first time, like, God, I remember that feeling. Like, I still get it, but just not as strong. You're welcome, sir. You know, and like and like you and I before we started the show and our our awesome videographers were setting everything up for us. Yeah, uh, we're just sitting out, just watching the sunset, drinking some whiskey. Just we just had a huge windstorm and rainstorm roll through here, and there's just that fresh scent of rain mixed with pine and the sunset. Oh, it was just like, God, this is like, is this real? Yeah, it doesn't feel like it.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

I mean I I get why they call it big sky country because it's literally you can see as far as your eye works. And I mean, I have 2020, so I do pretty good, but I couldn't see the the horizon. It just looked so incredible. The clouds are just brighter here and fluffier, it just feels really great. The air is just so natural. So tell me this: what is kind of your favorite thing to do in Wyoming? Because coming from New Jersey, you had a lot of, you know, great food, Taylor Ham, uh, a lot of really beautiful scenic areas like Patterson and Newark and Irvington. So I'm curious, but being in Wyoming now, like what are some of your favorite things to do here?

SPEAKER_01 46:23

Honestly, it's I'm a very I'm a social person, but I also love being alone. So I spend a very good amount of time just you know being by my own thoughts, sure, which is a solitude. Yeah, solitude is terrifying at first, I can tell you that. And and I didn't really fully experience it until I tell I lived out of a van for a year. Um, you know, I had my my my dog at the time, uh, but other than that, it was just me, my thoughts. I had to face every single demon. I I had to, you know, be like, you know, you were a shitty person here. You need to come to grips to grips, you need to be come to grips with that. You need to accept that you, you know, you you weren't, you know, a horrible person or anything, but you still weren't the best that you could be. Yeah. You have to come to terms with who you really are. And everyone has that. Yeah. Um, but a lot of people don't sit down and just face it. And when you're in a van hiking and backpacking around the country for for about a year and you don't have cell phone service a lot, it's like those those thoughts come raging in. Sure. And and I realized, oh my goodness, I've never been comfortable with myself alone.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

That's cool.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

I've always wanted to distract myself, whether it was with partying or or friends, working, whatever it may be. Women, booze. It didn't matter. Like I just would always be like, I don't want to deal with Nate right now. You know? And when I was forced to deal with myself, it helped me grow so much as a person. And it's something that I continue to do here, where obviously I still have a lot of friends. I still want to hang out and do everything. But one of my favorite things in the world is just taking my dog on a walk every day by myself. Sometimes I'll just leave my phone at home and I will just that's how I that's how I, you know, get my day going. Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

We got a Rye shout out.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

I love that. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's definitely, and then just being outside. You know, I love being outdoors. I I'm inside for work, you know, obviously, you know, at night if I'm gonna watch a movie or some TV or something, but I I try to spend as much time as possible out in the sun, out in the weather, even if it's cold. Um, I think it's one of the healthiest things you can do.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

Yeah, it feels great.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Yeah, I think it's a very natural thing for a human being to be outdoors. Yeah. Um, so yeah, anything outside active, I don't I don't sit still very well.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

You know what's cool to me is you kind of made mention of this. When we were sitting in the river and we saw the moose walk up, and we were looking over, and there were some kids just playing. Like that felt kind of nostalgic. And I feel like that's kind of a Wyoming thing. When we were out and like walking around or driving around, you would just see kids like fishing or just running around on scooters, on bikes. And for me, that was just like a kind of aha moment because it felt like people were just living, you know, like just going outside, touching grass, all the things that people say on the internet. But like, these are kids, like they're being trained at this moment to be on their smart devices and be in front of a TV all the time, but like they're experiencing that, they're having that moment of just living in the moment and appreciating the outdoors. That for me kind of felt like a cool Wyoming moment because you don't necessarily see that everywhere in the world.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

It's it's one of my favorite things about living here, is is it because it brings back that nostalgia of my childhood because I was very much like a you know, outdoors. I I don't think I had my first cell phone. Nate go play 17. Yeah, be home for dinner. Yeah, but it it's something that brings me great joy because it's like you see kids, they're not on they're they're not on cell phones all the time. Yep, they're playing basketball, they're skateboarding, they're biking, they're playing in the river, fishing, yeah, like cell fishing. You know a lot of the kids here, they're they're they've they've got their first, you know, you know, mule deer hunted and and killed by the age of 10. Heck yeah. Like they know how to, you know, that's it's a very genuine lifestyle. Or, you know, going to a cattle brand the other day, they're you know, five-year-old girls participating. Like it's it's it's like they're they're brought up in a very different way here. And it's something that I really appreciate because I'm like, you're learning skills at this young age, and you're not wasting your life away on a screen. And and I'm as guilty as anyone else of shit doing that. We're all guilty, right? I literally have to put timers on my my apps on my phone. Is that what you do? Yeah. Oh no, I because I have no self-control. Like, I I'll some sometimes download a video game on my phone and I have to delete it because I'll spend way too much time. I'm just that's that's you know, my thing. A lot of Pokemon go. I get it. No, none of that. It's well, it's strategy games. I love strategy. Interesting. Um, but yeah, I mean, and and seeing that, it just makes me so happy because I'm like, you're experiencing something that you might even you might not know it yet. Yep. But in the future, you're going to be so happy that you had the childhood you did, and that makes that makes me feel good. That makes adult nate happy. Yeah, it does. Alright, so before we wrap this up, we're gonna play a little game that we like to call Hard It or Hate It. Oh, I love that name. So I'm just gonna kind of list off a couple uh different spirit options, and you're gonna tell me heart it or hate it. Easy. I got this. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Starting off, peted bourbon. Heart it. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, peted bourbon for me. I feel like it's super polarizing, especially for bourbon fans, but it's flavorful, it's smoky, I mean it just is savory. Yeah, I I I heard that. I heard that. There we go.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

We've got one heart. Two Japanese whiskey under $50.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Ooh, under $50? I kind of hate it. Not gonna lie. I thought you were going for Japanese whiskey as a category, which I do absolutely respect and love and appreciate. Under $50, I've yet to find a Japanese whiskey that really nails it for me. Sorry. Fair enough. Next up.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

Fireball shots at a wedding. At a wedding?

SPEAKER_00 51:58

I mean, fireball shots in general, I can get on board with that. Guessing this is at a trailer park. At a wedding? Uh well, I haven't been to a lot of trailer park weddings, so maybe that's why I hate it. Sorry. I should say fireball.

SPEAKER_01 52:11

Sorry, I'm answering my own question for you. All right, next up. Whiskey aged and IPA beer casks. Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

I think I don't hate it. I I I guess I have to hard it because honestly, I feel like IPA is interesting. It adds a new dimension to whiskey, and frankly, I'm not scared of finishing casks, so I don't hate it. I guess I I guess I hard it.

SPEAKER_01 52:38

I don't, yeah, I I I think I'm in agreement. I like I definitely like IPA finishes when it comes to certain types of whiskey. Sure. You're never gonna give me a bourbon that's an IPA finish that I'm gonna like. Or even a rye. I would say more single malt, I would be more inclined towards.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 52:53

Or I've had some really good Irish whiskies. I can see that too. For sure. But yeah, I'd be a little picky. That's a heart. Alright, I already know the answer to this. Uh-oh. Flavored whiskey liqueurs. Do I not know the answer to this?

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Uh does anyone hard it? I feel like if you like flavored whiskey liqueurs, then you don't like whiskey. Actually, you might hate yourself. So, you know what? I I totally hate it. I hate it. There we go.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

I like it. $10 supermarket single malt with a gold medal sticker. Very specific. I don't know if I've ever had that before.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

If I gave it a gold medal, I heard it, but if I didn't, then I hate it. I can't think of one off the top of my head, but I'm just gonna cover my bases and say I heard it.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

I mean, I'll put it this way. If I had, I've had some really, really good, cheap Kirkland whiskey brands. Yes. So if they did something, it'd probably be a little more than 10, but yeah, there's there's definitely some good stuff, bargain price. For sure. I mean I'll put it that way.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

I'm just covering my ass because we've both judged many whiskey competitions. So I might have already given something a gold medal and said that I hard it and I might secretly hate it.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

It's possible. Chances are not gonna be great, but you never know. Fair. Okay. This should be a pretty easy one. All right. Buying whiskey only to leave it sealed forever.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

Well, I do hate it because if you leave it sealed, in theory, it's available to future generations. So that bottle that you bought and you're saving it for your daughter or son's 21st birthday, like that's good in theory, but if you never open it, and then your son or daughter never opens it, and then your grandson or granddaughter never opens it. I mean, what is it really? It's just a beanie baby. You're supposed to drink it.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

Future Nate buys it off of the later grandchildren.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Probably. Yeah, I hate it.

SPEAKER_01 54:37

Oh, here we go. This is an interesting one. I like this. Whiskey with zero age statement.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

Oh, that's fun. I like this one. You know what? I I I'm gonna say I hard it. I know a lot of people who are getting into American whiskey feel like everything should have an age statement, and they feel like if a brand doesn't put an age statement on it, it's young, it's immature, and they're cheating the system. Those people are idiots, honestly. I think that the people who are working at these distilleries are, you know, perfectionists. They really want to put out the best product possible. Now, sure, sometimes the marketing people get involved and they are the ones who leave the age statement off of these bottles. But in general, I think that I trust distilleries to put out great whiskey, and great whiskey doesn't need an age statement. Sometimes you're gonna mix in some of the older stock with the younger stock, and you might not want to put a four-year age statement on something that has 20-year-old whiskey in it. So personally, I don't think that this is kind of a crusade that I'm on, but I feel like people who are obsessed with age statements are stupid. So when it comes to no age statement on whiskey, I heard it good.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

I like it. I I actually completely agree. I don't think age defines how good a whiskey is now. Because I mean I've had really good three-year-old whiskey. Yes. I have. I've had really good white dog on age whiskey. Yeah. So I I I don't think that that uh defines at all. So that was our first time of hearted or hate it.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

Well, I heard that.

SPEAKER_01 56:03

Well, Frank, this has been an absolute pleasure. Uh easily some probab probably my favorite week of the year so far. It has just been non-stop awesomeness. We've just had so many experiences that we had no idea were gonna occur. Uh, and then the experiences that we had planned out just went off exactly as they should have, and if not better. Without a hitch. Uh honestly, my man, I I'm so happy you came out here. I'm I'm so excited to continue to to watch you grow and achieve success in this industry. Um, and I'm just happy to have been just a little part of your journey and and to hopefully be a fun little memory for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

I mean, this is gonna last for a very long time. Nate, um, first of all, I'm so honored that you invited me out here. I had an incredible time. Every single thing that you had planned was, I'm sure, better than you had it planned. This has been great. So I I want to come back as soon as possible. And uh, you know, getting some whiskey and understanding your view a little bit better has been super cool. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 57:05

You are the Denzel to my Ethan Hawk. Oh my gosh. That's an inside joke, guys. So it kind of is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

But if you haven't seen Training Day, then you're an idiot, so turn this off right now.

SPEAKER_01 57:14

Well, awesome, man. Uh, I'm actually kind of sad that we're gonna have to drop you off at the airport tomorrow, but we're gonna be doing this again in the future for sure.

SPEAKER_00 57:20

Yeah, I can't wait. Thank you again. Awesome, man.