Is Meditech/Bioflex laser therapy really not providing lasers that clinics have paid for?

Meditech/Bioflex laser therapy, of Toronto, ON, Canada is a well known laser therapy and red light therapy manufacturer.  Recently, many people have complained that they are paying up front for lasers and the lasers are not being delivered.  First, it's about manufacturing delays, then the offer of a refund, and finally, ghosting.  We're talking about tens of thousands of dollars per transaction.  Where is the money going?

In this podcast episode, we talk about two specific cases of this exact scenario.

Has this happened to you?  If so, please reach out.  There are power in numbers.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Well, welcome everyone. I want to welcome Dr. John Neal to the fifth episode of the National Clinic Group uh podcast called Rounds. Uh we talk about uh clinical issues relating to therapists, doctors, business owners, talking about clinical, we were talking about business matters, um, everything that involves from a rolled ankle to navigating complex commercial disputes, which is actually what we're gonna be talking about today. Um, so the National Clinic Group is a group of of more than 30 clinics across Canada. We're we're in a fairly new stage of things, um, but we we we've got uh clinics from Nova Scotia through to Winnipeg. Uh and Dr. John has actually been me. I'm the CEO of of Town Health Solutions in New Brunswick. Dr. John has been working with us since 2016, he's been a clinical since 2018, and uh, you know, we're really, really happy to have him on here. And one of the big things is that people say, well, why should we collaborate? What can you do for me? And there's all sorts of things. You can talk about clinical help, mentorship, business strategies, things like that. The reality is things are gelling, things have become more complicated in today's uh business marketplace across the board. You've got large corporations buying up clinics all over the place, and not everyone is happy with the clinical results there, and we want to maintain that that we want to maintain autonomy for the clinician, for the business owner, and we want to maintain, we want to be patient-centered for all of our patients because that's how we've grown, that's how everyone's been successful. So, Dr. John Neal is in Woodstock, New Brunswick, a great place. Uh, I love every time I get to go up there. I just brought a bunch of cheerleader girls in to us. We flooded this clinic on the way to Montreal for a cheerleading event. Um, I don't think that uh you're I don't think uh Candace was too impressed. Uh, but anyway, uh the girls had a lot of fun up in Montreal. So um, all right, John, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? Okay, what you're doing up in Woodstock, NACWIT, Florenceville. Tell us, uh, give yourself a bit of a pump up, John, because you've been doing really well.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Okay, thanks, Eric. Thanks for inviting me to this podcast. It's exciting to finally get on this, and uh, it's been really amazing to see what you've been doing with the NCG. Um, but a little bit about myself. Like Eric said, Dr. John Neal. I work in Woodstock, New Brunswick, and have satellite clinics in Knackwork and Florenceville, New Brunswick, uh, pretty much taking care of the upper upper river valleys area of New Brunswick. Uh, provide diversified chiropractic care, do contemporary medical acupuncture, uh, provide laser therapy, shockwave therapy. We have multidisciplinary clinics as well with physiotherapists, massage therapists, osteopath, and uh registered massage therapist, all working uh as a team, not in silos, but working together collaborately, help patients get better uh quicker, uh making sure that they're getting their needs taken care of. Uh, we work with a diverse group of uh patient population athletes, uh pediatrics, uh geriatrics, uh, making sure our whole town, our whole community is taken care of from uh young to old, uh fit to not so fit, and making sure everyone's happy and joyful doing it. So thanks for having me on, Eric.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Yeah, no problem. You've been doing great. You've got a wonderful team up there. Like I said, it's an it's an awesome community. And one of the things we've done is is we continue to serve smaller communities. We we we serve larger cities as well, we serve smaller communities, and then there's there's great opportunities for people everywhere. So today we're actually gonna be talking, we're gonna stick to the facts here. Uh, we're gonna be talking about a business transaction that has gone wrong involving a very well-known company. Uh and you know, if it was just a one blip, you can blame that on a salesperson who dropped the ball, maybe went AWOL. Um, but unfortunately, there does seem to be uh numerous cases of these transactions not going through, and where we're really trying to understand why this is happening. So the company is Meditech, uh, they make the BioFlex Laser Therapy Systems very well known. They've been around for a very, very long time. And so uh our company altogether, I believe we already have three bioflex lasers. They are good lasers, they work. We use it for plant fascigis. I mean, you know what? I'm gonna be so nice here. We're gonna they work with plant fasciitis, degenerative disc disease, uh disc carniations, muscle and joint issues, tendon issues. The healing really does uh work really well, and and we really love the units. So I'm gonna tell you, we're gonna cover the name, uh cover the history of the company a little bit. Um so Bioflex was started in 1986 uh with a Toronto vascular surgeon, Dr. Fred Kahn, who really Dr. Kahn has uh you know, he is a um an amazing, uh he's almost like a mythical kind of name in the the uh biomodul photobiomodulation uh uh uh uh industry. So after suffering a serious injury in a skiing accident, Dr. Kahn became interested in low-level laser therapy as a potential over more invasive treatments. What began as a as a personal search recovery ended in a lifelong explore uh a lifelong journey to explore therapeutic benefits of light-based medicine. In 1989, Dr. Kahn founded MetaTech International in Toronto, so it's a Canadian company, which is disappointing, but it is still a Canadian company. Its vision was not simply to manufacture laser equipment, but it was to create a complete clinical system that combined technology, treatment protocols, research, and practitioner education. And they have done that. At the time, therapeutic laser therapy was still relatively unknown in the mainstream healthcare system. During the 1990s, Meditech worked with engineers and researchers to develop what became the Bioflex system. The technology combined laser probes with flexible arrays of red and infrared light emitting diodes, allowing clinicians to treat both large and targeted areas of the body. This approach helped distinguish bioflex from many other laser systems on the market. In 1999, Meditech officially launched its first commercial bioflex system and opened the Meditech Rehabilitation Center in Toronto. And that clinic still exists. I did speak with uh uh the head of that of that clinic, and he was a really good guy. I won't name any names because he was very helpful in this discussion as you're trying to learn more about what's going on. Through the 2000s and 2010s, BioFlex expanded significantly. They trained thousands of healthcare providers, physicians, athletic therapists, chiropractic physios, and uh thousands of systems were installed across the country. Much of that growth was driven by Dr. Kahn himself. He became one of the most prominent advocates for therapeutic laser therapy, and people use uh photobiomodulation. Um, it's synonymous with laser therapy. And infrared therapy is one um just uh a more narrow. We hear about red light therapy, and there's a lot of advertising on Facebook right now for red light therapy, and that's a very narrow band um of wavelength versus the the lasers. There's different wavelengths, and the laser has different properties than the red light therapy. You can have a red light therapy device at home if you want. Um it's I wouldn't call it the you know, obviously the advertisers they say, oh, it's the it's a big panacea. They, you know, it will solve all your problems. You'll you'll be making billions of dollars a year if you have a red light therapy machine in your office. And it doesn't work like that, but that's sales. And uh, but you know, a laser machine, a 3B laser, we usually have that 3B, like a um uh I think a 695 and an 810 um nanometer uh range. Uh okay, so um Dr. Collin remained uh actively involved in Meditech for more than three decades. When he passed away in 2022 at the age of 95, marked the end of a remarkable chapter in the company. In 2024, Meditech entered a new era when it was acquired by the DS Group. The acquisition brought new leadership and a renewed focus on growth, commercialization, and international expansion. Today, Bioflux remains one of the most recognizable brands in therapeutic laser therapy, which is the shocking part about this. If it was a small little outfit, a too good to be true deal, sometimes things happen, and we're like, well, that's an expensive lesson learned. But this is a giant company. This would like be like making a transaction with uh Irving Oil and going and buying your gas and and not getting any gas. Like it you'd be like, this is crazy. Regardless of where one stands in laser therapy itself, uh Bioflex's impact is undeniable. Over the last three decades, the company's played a major role in moving therapeutic laser therapy from a niche treatment and a widely discussed and commonly used modality within rehabilitation and pain management. So there you go. Good company, good products. There's a change in ownership in 2024. Did that have a role in anything? We don't know. Um often when venture funds purchase companies, they want to trim the fat. So sometimes you lose salespeople, sometimes they bring in less experienced salespeople to save on their staffing costs. Uh, who knows what has transpired within the within the company? But these are all very common processes when companies get acquired. And it does put people off when it comes to like, should I sell to a company like that? Are they really, are they gonna hurt my brand? Are they gonna hurt what I built? Yes, I love the check at the end of the day. I'm I gotta retire. But you know, um, there can be some pretty substantial damage done when companies acquire and they completely change, and and uh there are some sour thoughts with with the original owner. Um some deals go well, some deals don't. That's that's the challenging part of this world. Okay, so Dr. Neil back in uh August of 2025 um started discussing with Baflex and their salespeople about um procuring a new laser. Actually, they reached out to him, which is the really interesting facet of this, and one thing I keep forgetting about. So, John, I want you to take us through the very beginning. Actually, take us through when you first bought your laser, you know, the experience you had with that, because as far as I know, it was a good experience. And what was the date? You know, it might have been pre-acquisition, perhaps. You know what I mean? So take it away. Tell us your story from the very beginning and how we got here today.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

So, way back when, my first so back in 2024.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

When in 2024, John?

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Well, I'll get to that. In 2024, I was researching adding more a new laser to the clinic. Because I had a previous model, uh just a handheld one, but I wanted to get a better, more robust laser unit uh to provide the treatment for patients and to uh expand the clinic. Uh so after doing some research and having some conversations, I spoke with a uh person from uh Manitech Bioflex uh around uh uh August September 2024, and uh we made the the agreement to purchase a laser after he educated me on their product um on October 24th, 2024. And I purchased my first laser from them, uh Miniport Pro. Um and we signed the papers, we set up the lease agreement for it, uh similar to other uh equipment that we've used, and uh off and running. Everything's with hunky dory working well for a couple years, and then actually that was for a year. And then August of 26th, 2025, uh I received a phone call from a new sales rep um from Meditatec FileFlex uh looking to uh uh offering a promotion of trading in my current one for an upgrade at a discount on price. Uh sounded like a good deal. Uh negotiated with them and made a purchase on August 26, 2025. Um you want me to keep going here, Eric? More? Keep going. Here we go. Details are good. Details are good. So uh in this phone conversation with this sales rep in 2025, uh we negotiated the the price. He said uh it has to be paid up front with a visa, uh, not a lease agreement like previous uh encounters. Um there were uh I can't recall exactly when he set out on the phone when it would arrive. Um but uh we signed the papers, it was all good, I was really excited for the laser to arrive when it would. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Let me jump in. Did they give you the offer and even discuss leasing? Did you ask about leasing and they said no, you can't lease, you have to purchase.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Um during the conversation, um he said he needed a credit card uh number to do the deal. Um and I asked about leasing and my current lease on the device, and he said that they would uh discuss with the leasing company to uh take care of that to get that taken away, and uh and then I would be just pay paying for the new device up front. So I thought that's great. They get it back, I get the new device for a discount. Awesome. More uh better therapy, right? Um so then there was uh no communication until I sent an email September 10th uh asking when my is my laser gonna arrive. Uh the response I got was um that they would be in touch uh once the device was ready, that it was being assembled. Um then I was thank you very much. And then October 6th I followed up with another email uh again asking when it would arrive. And the response I got again was um that it would be that they're still manufacturing it and that they're hoping the shipping out shipping out this week is the is the quotation I have from that email on October 6th. Um so I gave a week, an extra week or two, October 28th, I asked to get another email. Uh at this point I didn't receive a response from this email on October 28th, 2025. Um which case I on November 4th I attempted to make contact via phone. Uh four attempts in the morning, followed by an answer at noon. We had a brief conversation. Uh four minutes to be exact. And um which case I requested a refund during this transaction because at this point I had made a purchase and it had gone a couple months or so without receiving the product, in which case that's not good for me. Um so pressed the refund and then we waited for the refund to come in, and then on December 12th I sent an email uh following up on said refund. In which case I received a response on December 15th that uh that sales rep would uh I will process the refund uh was the quotation I got from that one, and it should be processed very soon.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

So you're promised a refund.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Yeah, he said he would do the refund, uh, and it would be should be processed very soon as the quotation's on there. Um which case I replied on the same uh the same day uh uh asking how long would this take, uh in which case there was no response to that email. And then January 2nd, I emailed asking for the refund or asking when it would be done, and no response then. Uh January 15th, this is in the 2026 now, uh email asking how long when or when the refund would happen. There was no response to that email. Uh made phone call attempts on January 16th, 21st, and February 4th, uh, with unanswered uh phone call attempts there. Um at which point I decided to go through the other phone call phone um channels towards FileFlex. Uh going to their main lines where I called on December. Uh going back December 6th, I called uh FileFlex or Mediac. Uh called them once with no answer. January 16th, I called them three times with no answer. Uh called them on January 20th four times with no answer. January 21st, I called with no answer. Um at the same time during this, I called my previous sales ref that I purchased from 2024. I called him uh January 16th, 20th, and twice on the February 4th. Those were all unanswered calls. So uh numerous attempts uh since since January February to get uh any idea of what was going on with regards to the refund. Um so yeah. This is a new experience for me, and uh it was yeah, no doubt. A lot of money for a uh Meditech File Flex laser. Um as you would expect for a quality laser, you'd make that purchase. So uh definitely a new experience for me.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

And sure. Like a question, where'd the money go? And you know, it's it's interesting, like you know, there's such a pattern, you know. When people say is I actually, and you know, to be very transparent and I will be very upfront, uh, I reached out to them. Uh there I actually emailed the email from uh to the salesperson that reached out to you in August. Um, and that went through and they said he's no longer with the company. And actually, the fellow you had been dealing with in 2024 and you spoke with in 2025, he's no longer, he exited the company in uh in April of 2026. The former CEO uh exited the company in 2026. So there's a lot of changeover happening at the company. We uh so I I spoke to a bunch of people, and then um uh it appears that you know we don't know, no one seems to know what is going on, and and it just the buck just keeps getting passed around and around and around. So then you went and you uh you we got you a lawyer, we touched you with uh with a lawyer from from Lutz Parish Carriage, and uh they sent a uh a demand letter to the email, and um they didn't respond respond to anything, they didn't get anything back. And so when I actually had reached out in order to um, you know, discuss you know getting them on the podcast, I did say I wanted to buy a laser. I I acted as a customer to be truthful. I acted as a customer. I said, hey, we're interested, and you know, and he I asked some questions. I said, what is the delivery time? And he said, 60 days is the delivery time. I said, okay, good. You know, that sounds great. And I said, you know, hey, why don't we get you on a podcast so we can talk about laser therapy? Because in order to try to get some answers, you have been completely ghosted, and they refused to speak to you, even though they have your money. And so, in order to get a conversation, we had to be a little bit finicky uh with how we worded the invitation. Um unfortunately, they uh you know they agreed yesterday, and this morning we found out that they declined. So we presented them with all the information and with all the receipts and with all the the invoices. Actually, what is your order number? Just so it's not just hearsay. Can you could you tell us what the order number was on on the invoice, the purchase and sale agreement that you signed?

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Let's see, the quote number was Q-01469. And I do believe, I think that's the main number that I have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

And you know, and you've you've presented, you've shown me the proof of payments and and and the signed contract, and they have been made aware of that, and they still don't want to respond. So, you know, once we finish recording this, we will give them an opportunity to respond. We're our goal is not to be salacious, it's not designed to be aggressive. Uh, we just want answers to a very particular question. We're talking about, you know, well, you know, uh over $10,000 for you. And others we're talking about tens of thousands of dollars. So, in total, how much money are we talking about for people didn't get it? Other people I spoke to, their primary direction to go in was to get a charge back on their credit card once they realized they weren't getting the laser. Some were successful, some were not, and that's currently what you're working on. But you shouldn't have, they still have the money. You shouldn't have to go through that process in order to get your money back to deal with the credit card that you paid for. So, one other individual who agreed to be uh named and wants her story out there, and she's very upset about this, but she wasn't able to join us on the podcast, but she she agreed with everything. Uh her name is Doc. It's interesting. There's three people from the province of New Brunswick who were involved in this, which is interesting. So, Dr. Samantha Stolly, uh, she's in Oromocto, New Brunswick. Uh, she reached out to me. She she's very eager to see some resolution with this. Um, so this is her story here. A date of purchase, September 17th, 2026. So only a week before you, which is really interesting. No, sorry. You were August 26th. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

2025. So yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

2025. Uh we paid in full via credit card. The order number is 01590. Um, she provided the the attachments, um, you know, that I was able to confirm that. The amount was $17,250. We reached out to, you know, I'm I'm just gonna read this verbatim because um, you know, that's just the the way it has to be. We reached out to Noel on September 18th asking when to expect a shipping label. On September 22nd, Noel responded to our email stating a laser would ship in two weeks. Uh on September 30th, we reached out again as we did not receive a shipping email. No response. On October 19th, I wrote a formal complaint to BioFlex. This was then escalated to CEO Kipton Lade on October 20th, 2025. We spoke via Teams meeting. He apologized, wanted to make it right, and shipped us a demo laser, which we received the following week. So a demo laser is a used laser, something they take on the road, they might lend it out from time to time. It's like a rental car, but it's not what you what she paid for. On November 25th, still no update, reached out to Noel again. December 31st, sent Noel another email following up. Uh, we had talked to Noel over the phone around December 10th, which is when he assured us the laser would ship in three weeks. So we hear one week, two weeks, three weeks. There's always it's coming, it's coming, it's coming. Uh on uh so we uh sorry, which we assured would ship the laser in three weeks, hence the December 31st follow-up. On January 7th, followed up with Kipton and Knoll, surprise, no laser shipment. January 20th, requested a full refund and ghosted, no response to emails or phone calls. And she did a chargeback and received money back February 15th from the credit card company. So that was about five months or six months uh later. So, you know, she did get a demo laser. Um, it's not what she wanted, it doesn't work the same, it's not what she purchased. So essentially she paid for a brand new laser and received the used card. She bought a new card, received a used card. Uh, and she's very motivated um to see a resolution of the situation because there's so many more people than that. Um, so this is the situation that that we're in. You're working with your credit card to try to get the money back. We just want answers. You know what I mean? Um, this is crazy. When I first heard the situation, I said there's something wrong, there's something weird. There's there's one employee that's gone off the rails. The reality is there's been the the company was was sold in 2024. Uh and then things started to change in 2025, looking at the dates of the other cases I'm aware of. And so, and then there's been a mass exodus of staffing in April of 2026. All of this you you can prove on LinkedIn. This this is very this is public knowledge um that the the staff you can identify in LinkedIn as having departed in April. So there was some something promote that. Um so all we want are answers. Where'd the money go? Are we talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars? In your case, it was eleven thousand dollars. There's a lot of money that's out that that they have, and the lasers just haven't been delivered. So, you know, we want answers, and you know, no one's getting anything. So they're they're ghosting. So is the company in financial trouble? I don't know. Um, but you know, in our companies, like we obviously want to make right, even you know, when there's been we've all had downtimes, and we do what what is is best for for everyone involved, and we certainly keep our word, that's for darn sure. So, you know, uh hopefully we get some resolution out of this, John. Uh that would be really, really good. Um, I suspect there'll be a second uh podcast episode on this after things happen. Um, I am gonna send this recording. There are no caveats, there are no catches, and I'm just gonna send that and just say, do you have any comments? And with their comments, we will attach it to the notes of the podcast, verbatim, word for word. They have an opportunity to uh offer their side of the story, even though we asked them to be on this uh in advance. And we did have a uh a specified time for them to join, but they elected not to. Um, so so yeah, so kind of going all the way back, the National Clinic Group, you know, our goal is not just to get you advertising, promise you 30 new patients a week, all this stuff that you see advertised constantly. We're all about fundamental business strategies. Um, we're stronger together, collaboration is the way of the future. Uh, consolidation is happening in all the different industries, you know, physio and uh dental and medicine. I've even seen ones for ophthalmology. I have a friend who actually was acquired as an ophthalmologist. And so these are able to collaborate on these elements and to have a bit of critical mass and be able to speak for the clinics, uh, you know, whether they're looking to develop new revenues, whether looking for an excess strategy, succession strategy, uh investment strategies. And you know what? In weird scenarios like this, helping our members try to resolve very complex uh business uh situations. So, you know, John, I really appreciate you sticking your neck out a little bit and having a talk. It's hard for me to just go on hearsay, but you have the facts. Dr. Sully has the facts. Uh, I've learned a lot from others as well. And, you know, so this is this is really helpful, and I'm happy to be able to help. Hopefully, we do get the resolution we're looking for. And uh, you know, and that's all we want. We just want people to either get their money back or get the products they were promised to be actually delivered. So yeah, that's where we're at. We'll see what the next step is. Um, and we will go from there. But hopefully we have good engagement with BioFlex. Hopefully they do what's right uh and and you know, satisfy these these purchase and sales orders or or refund these people's money. So um, yeah, anything you want to add at the end of this, John?

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Uh no. Uh that's you you said it all, Eric. I really appreciate uh being on this podcast and being able to share my story and share the facts. Uh again, resolution is all we want. Just like when we have a patient come into the clinic, we want resolution for them. Whenever we have people join the clinic, we want everyone to be happy and go lucky. So uh again, we're looking for a win-win in every situation.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Absolutely. That sounds awesome. Thank you, John. Also, special thanks to Dr. Samantha Sully for offering her story for us to add in because it helps to have multiple examples and we'll see where it goes. So uh, you have a wonderful day. It's uh it's a little drizzly down here in in the St. John area, but uh I don't know what's like up in Knackwick or Woodstock. Same. Yeah, it is the June always gets a little weird this way. So, anyway, to everyone listening, thank you. Hope you learned a bit. If this has happened to you, reach out to us. We would like to hear from you because the you know, the more the more noise we can make, the more uh cases we have that we can collaborate on, the stronger we are, which is the whole reason for the the national clinic group to exist in the first place. Okay. All right, John, thank you so much. Have a wonderful day. I'm sure you're gonna treat your patients awesome, and we will talk to you soon, my friends.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Thanks, Eric. Have a good one. Cheers, pal.