SpineMED Decompression therapy, is it the answer to sciatica, pinched nerves, and herniated discs?

Today, we talk to Aubrey Tager, with SpineMED, a Canadian company that manufacturers Decompression tables that have a proprietary method of achieving decompression that other manufacturers don't, and the results speak for themselves.

Whether you're a patient wondering if this therapy will benefit you, or a clinic owner thinking of purchasing one, or a competitor, give this podcast a listen!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Right. Well, welcome to episode six of the National Clinic Group Rounds. We have a very special guest here today. This is Aubrey Tager. Tager, right? Yeah. Tager. I got it. I got it. Okay. Anyway, he's here with Spine Med Systems decompression therapy. We've all heard about this. By the way, this is going to be audio only, so the video don't. We're just having a chat here. But yeah, no, uh, so essentially what we're doing is talking about decompression therapy. Uh Aubrey's down here because uh with at Town Health Solutions here in St. John, we have just purchased the Express. Um, and uh what we're doing is we have our first patients on, we're really excited. So Aubrey's here to train us, train our teams, and make sure everything goes smooth. So this is a big deal here because we have probably eight millionth most popular podcasts on Spotify right now. So you're gonna sell some units, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Wow, fantastic!

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Oh, I know. Uh after this, it might be seven million, nine thousand. Uh, anyway, so but let's go through and let's talk a bit about the company, the science, and and what actually happens, how it differs from other decompression companies, because we picked you guys because we we really like a lot of the features, and I I won't kind of lead the witness a little bit, um, but we can kind of summarize it afterwards. But tell us about SpyMed and your journey as well, uh, you know, who your customers are, how the technology works, who it helps. Let's let's go for it. And I'll jump in and we'll kind of make things make things roll, keep it nice and easy and informat.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Absolutely. Yeah, no worries. So SpyMed is a Canadian company. We're based out of Prince George, British Columbia. And the way that we work actually, as far as sales go, is we actually sell direct to the end user in Canada and the US, so throughout North America. Uh, in the rest of the world, we are primarily serviced through distribu uh distribution. So that would mean that each country, we're in 42 countries right now, they have their own distributor, uh, one distributor per country, and there is no competition. So there's there's no way to change prices or uh to to start haggling between different distribution companies. One company will take care of each country, so all the servicing and everything is done by that distribution company here in Canada. Uh, we will deal with that directly with the customer, and that's why I'm here in your office today. So I was able to come and get this machine installed and train your staff, and we're very big on that. We don't just go and drop it off on your doorstep and say, you know, we want you to have some good luck and uh, you know, best results, and it's up to you to figure it out. We want to make sure that everything is running properly, that all of your patients are being treated well, and that you're 100% comfortable with the equipment that you're buying and getting the results that you want before we actually leave you to do this on your own.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah, absolutely. And so I know we we've learned a lot, and it's one of the beauties is it's it's very intuitive and it's very user-friendly. Right. So I know a lot of systems can be pretty complicated. You are making a lot of uh uh, you know, there's a lot of variables with how you set the system up. How does SpyMed uh how is the system so user-friendly? Can you break that down for us?

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Absolutely. So a lot of other machines, you're gonna have to have a staff there. Some sometimes you might even have to hire a staff specifically to run that machine, which is very it's very much not cost effective for small practices. Uh, we try to make it so that SpyMed is very user-friendly and that even your front desk help can, with minimal training, be able to run the machine. So the way that we do that is we actually incorporate two different computers in the machine itself. There's one built into the uh to the base of the machine, a motherboard computer that is inside the machine. And then we have what's called an ELO medical grade computer. So it's not just some screen that's sitting there, it's actually a medical grade computer that is running the system. And the two uh computers will communicate with each other, and they come up with an algorithm that's based on the patient's weight, is gonna allow you to do the treatments for the lumbar spine in a very easy and efficient way, just simply based on having the right weight for the patient. Now, the cervical spine is gonna be a little bit different. Uh, we have a tendency to have certain parameters and weights that we use, but they're very, very low. For example, with males, we use uh somewhere between six and 10 pounds, which is very, very low compared to 30 or 40 pounds that other people use. Um, and in the lumbar spine, we only utilize between 10 and 15 percent of the patient's body weight. And there's a reason for that. We want to use the lowest weight possible to achieve decompression. And whenever you're ready, I'll talk a little bit more about that and how this machine will actually differentiate between traditional traction or maybe some of the other competitors in the market.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Yeah, yeah. And so what's most important here is obviously the benefits to the patient. To us, we know there's a lot of people who uh they've got you know sciatic pain, they got ridiculopathies in the leg or the arm, they have stenosis or compressions in the spine, discarniations and all those, and a lot of them they will respond to conservative care, but you know, sometimes they won't. And so um they get stuck in this purgatory where they might be surgical, but here in Canada, we're waiting it could be two or three years. Maybe the surgeons are like, no, you're not quite there, uh, but yet everything else hasn't worked, and they've been through the medical merry-go-round. So, like, this is a way to help these people who are really, really struggling. I know family doctors appreciate this because they're they really have run out of answers, and we've done all the best car we can, all the best physio, all these great clinics, uh the same. So, this is the best, this is a really good option. And we uh, and being the only one in southern New Brunswick, we will be able to cover essentially from St. Stephen all the way through to Sussex. Um, and it's interesting to say there is the Machine Health Act, which I I find very, very interesting for sure. So, for these people, how how does it benefit them and how does it differ from other other treatments?

SPEAKER_00 6:48

So, this is uh a totally different type of system, and it benefits them because they're not gonna have to go and do something like surgery. Uh, the way that we know this is the majority of our clients are actually surgeons. You would think that most of our clients would be chiropractors or physiotherapists. Uh, the majority of SpyMed's clients are actually orthopedic and neurosurgeons. Um, around the world, we have machines in 42 different countries. Some countries, like if you go to Kuwait, in every government hospital, there will be at least five different Spine Med machines in their actual hospital. So the doctors are getting used to using this in their practice. In a place like Germany, you go into a surgeon's office and he'll say, you know what, between uh if I have 10 patients that come into my office, seven out of 10 of them I'm not gonna be doing surgery on. So those seven patients I'm gonna put on spine med. And when they're doing that, they're seeing that that change, that change that they're trying to achieve to get that person better without surgery is usually happening happening at about 25 visits. So at about 25 visits, they're actually seeing not a decrease in the pain or a decrease in symptomatology, but an actual reversal of the disc pathology, the disc bulbs, the herniation. And that is extremely significant because now we're gonna take a strain off of the healthcare system. We're gonna be able to introduce something whereby the patient is getting better not only faster, but more effectively and without any long-term implications or having to do any kind of extra therapies while they're going through this treatment.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Yeah. And you know, that's that's the beautiful thing. You know, so you can reverse pathology, which is which is incredible. And we maybe don't need to get into the the the biochemist stuff. Um, but they'll almost certainly feel better before that level. Like that is almost like curing the disc itself. We can't promise to do that, but you know, there's there are documented case, lots of documented cases, but they should feel better before that uh because you're getting fluid in there, you're you're taking pressure off those really sensitive nerves, you're breaking that spasm cycle and compression of the spine that people can't seem to get away from. Uh, and then that journey goes to being where they they have a healthy disc again. And there you had one case in the the an Italian phalliet, the disc was effectively dead. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

So we have uh one of our clients, uh Dr. Pennetta, who's a neurosurgeon in Italy. Um, they did a study with what's called degeneric protocol, whereby they were able to see through MRI a disc that is essentially it's what's called necrotic tissue. It's a dead disc, it's a black disc. And they were able to actually bring that back to life per se. So you can actually see the liquid content in the disc come back after spine med. Now, as far as documentation goes, this has never been documented anywhere on the planet ever. So this is a pretty amazing thing. And what that tells us is that not only can we actually reverse um any kind of disc pathologies, and we're not saying we cure disc pathologies, all we can say is that on pre and post MRIs, we're seeing that reversal happen. So that's the best that we can promise is that we're seeing that reversal based on the cases that we've seen. But in addition to that, we can actually change the disc heights and the actual nutrients inside the disc. So this is something that can be used for long-term long-term care as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, some people they'll find a maintenance will be you know will be helpful. So there's there are lots of traction options out there, attraction and decompression. Yes. How are you guys why are you at such a high level? What are you guys doing that's different? Because let's call space big, your units are substantially more expensive than everybody else. So, where is that benefit coming from and how do the patients benefit?

SPEAKER_00 11:04

So that's an excellent question. And you know what? When you see two different uh machines that are both competing in the same space, you're wondering why should I buy this? What exactly is different? So the main difference is that traditional traction or some other decompression machines, what they utilize is what's called a traction box. And this traction box essentially has a wheel inside of it, and around that wheel, there is some kind of cable or rope that's wrapped around, and that will then go to the machine and essentially pull on the patient themselves. The way that it does that is it will go on for 30 seconds and off for 30 seconds, so relaxing and then tightening, relaxing and tightening, and that goes to a harness that's strapped around the patient. So, as you're trying to do that, you have to pull with a really, really high amount of force, so very, very strong force in order to help to get that disc level to relax and to separate that joint.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Because you're going through like knees, ankles, hips, you have to go through all through everything.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

You're going through muscle, ligaments, you're going through soft tissue, you're going through fat, even organs at times, trying to achieve a decompression state. Now, that doesn't mean that it won't happen. It can happen, but how often and how are you going to reproduce that? That's the question. Now, in addition to that, there's another problem that happens when you're pulling with that amount of force, is those muscles that go up and down the spine called the paraspinal muscles, they're going to react to that and they're going to guard and they go into spasm. And once those muscles go into spasm, it actually causes a compression of the disc itself. So the very thing that you're trying to treat, you're actually making it worse. So we want to bypass that. And the way that spine med has differentiated itself without these harnesses and pulleys and traction boxes is they actually developed a system whereby we'll capture the pelvis itself with a special restraint. And then our we have a two-piece table. So that means that part of the table is actually moving and distracting the spine. Then we will tilt the pelvis, and by tilting the pelvis, we can actually isolate the level of the lesion, meaning that if it's in the first lumbar vertebrae or the second or the third, we can target that specifically. And because we are so close to the spine, we only need to utilize between 10 and 15% of the patient's body weight. So it's a totally different technology, and that allows us to achieve between 88 and 92% effectiveness at actually correcting these disc problems and making it reproducible, making it very gentle for the patient and very easy for the clinics to use with tremendous outcome.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. And how long has SpineMed been around for?

SPEAKER_00 14:00

So SpineMed started uh back in about 2000. Um, and the founder of the company, uh Tim Emsky, um, he had been running clinics out in British Columbia, physical physiotherapy clinics, and he actually owned uh, I think it was about 20, 25 DRX machines. So he knew the industry very well and was using these on a consistent basis, had some other machines, and then found that there were some issues with some of the decompression vax D and some other ones that he used that he thought he wanted to improve upon. So he took some of the good things and from those machines, some of the ideas, and then spoke to some engineers and said, Well, how can we improve upon this and come out with the best possible machine? And the first evolution of it came out in the early 2000s, it was called the Pro. And now we make two different models, the Ultra and the Express. And it's been 26 years and in 42 different countries, and uh we're probably the most researched machine out there. We don't pay for any of any of our research. Uh sometimes we don't even know that it's happening. Um, but uh this is one of the most amazing things that we can see for a very, very difficult sector of healthcare where it never really got great advances for disc care.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Yeah, no, it's it's a tricky, it's a tricky spot for sure. Um, it's interesting that you know uh uh there's been quite an iteration over the last 20 years. It was very popular 20 years ago, it seemed to be getting more popular again now. Yes, there was like a lull. I think maybe that DRX stuff had something to do with it, or maybe maybe not. But where's the future going for SpyMed and this technology? Is there anything in the wings that obviously, whatever you can tell me?

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Yeah, so right now, I mean, we haven't really looked at any kind of improvements based on the uh the model that we have right now. We are at a great spot right now. Now, obviously, technology will change in the future, and I think it's we're looking more at changes in the computer technology. So the computers that we use in our systems are different now than the IBM computers that we used 20 years ago. Um, the components that we use are very, very uh high-tech components. Some of them are actually um the components that you see in fighter jets. Um, they are very, very high-end. Um, and uh, you know, the machine right now, the more most important thing is trying to produce as many machines as possible. They're all made by hand here in Canada. So, you know, there's not an assembly line. So right now we're just trying to keep up with demand and the expansion that is happening with SpyMed.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the and what do clinic owners, when they get a SpyMed machine, what do clinic owners? Obviously, you probably keep in touch with people to some extent. Um, you know, there's been very a very close uh level of uh very good customer service here. So what are after the first month, let's say, what what are clinic owners telling you?

SPEAKER_00 17:14

So clinic owners are seeing, I mean, first and foremost, the most important thing is that patients are getting better. Uh, without that, it really, really is totally unimportant uh what happens on the business side of it. But there is that side of it for every doctor that is out there, for every therapist that is out there, they are also they're out there to make a living. They have families to support and they have businesses to support. And without having a proper business, doesn't really matter. You can't really offer a service or buy these machines. So the great thing with SpyMed is that it does hit the two different parameters. The clients that we have are really, really doing well financially. Um, they are not struggling in the least bit. In fact, we see people usually buying a second or third machine within a couple months of buying their first machine just to keep up with the demand. And the important thing to understand there is the demand is coming not from people just wanting to spend money and come in for therapy, but because they're getting better. And those people are getting better quickly, and word spreads incredibly quickly nowadays, especially with so social media, things like this, podcast, people are gonna hear it and they're gonna want to try it out. And once they try it out, they tell two friends and they tell two friends and so on and so forth. And so we're really seeing a change in those clinics that go ahead and buy their first machine. It changes their entire clinic, whereby some of them are even thinking, you know what, maybe I should just do Spine Med just to keep up with the demand that's here. Um, and it could also be an exit strategy for a lot of doctors looking to retire because they don't have to necessarily stand there. And if you're a chiropractor or physiotherapist, your hands are now free to do other things.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Yeah, absolutely. It's about working smarter, not harder. That's right. Yeah, so you're checking the boxes, it's financially reasonable, it does come out at quite a cost, but the ROI, have you guys ever done the math on what your average first-year ROI is?

SPEAKER_00 19:18

On we actually do have, I don't have it in front of me, but we have done uh ROI based on a couple factors. I mean, obviously the ROI is going to be dependent on what you're charging. Um, so I believe we did something at about $150 a visit or $200 a visit, but we do have uh um a sheet that we did put out with the ROIs. Um, but a lot of people too, you don't want to be having this as something where they're coming in just for one or two visits to test it out, to try it out. Um, we base the outcomes based on case fees. And the reason why we say case fees is because we know that at 25 visits, that's where we're seeing the changes based on pre and post MRIs. So we want to kind of dissuade people from that model where they're thinking that I'm just gonna come in and hopefully I'll feel better after a couple visits and I'll try it, and then if I'm better, I'm gonna stop.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Yeah, yeah. No. Well, it's like taking antibiotics. You know what I mean? 100%. You should feel better after a couple days, but you gotta take the whole trial for the whole thing that's right. Yeah, exactly. It's the exact same thing in dentistry and change the oil in your car.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

The program is the program to get maximum uh opportunities. Well, that that sounds pretty good. We're really excited. Uh, we we have a lot of people we tend to be uh sought after for complex cases, people aren't getting better elsewhere, and we we really thrive off of that. So it's just another another tool in our toolbox to be able to help really complicated people, people who actually feel like they they may not have much much in the way of hope. Um, sort of be able to serve that really challenging population is is really, really good. So uh Aubrey, trying to keep it short and sweet. Um, I think we we covered a lot of ground there. Um, anything you want to add that we hadn't chatted about? That I think we covered you know the the patient benefits and the technology and the mechanism of action and everything else.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Yeah, that's the biggest thing. Is the question is when people come in and they hear about this, they hear that it, you know, is this like a miracle thing? I've tried other things that look like this. What's the difference? Why does it matter? And I think as long as that we're focused on the actual different um mechanisms with this machine, that's the most important thing to touch on. And of course, the end result is the key issue here. I mean, if you're not getting people better, then there's no point in doing any of this.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

And that's it. If you're getting people better from a business standpoint, you the revenues are going to follow for all the right reasons. You're helping people, there's that's just the way it works. Um, so yeah, no, that that's really, really cool. What what we really liked again, it's user-friendly and it's gentle. You're not using a pile of pressure to target the area that you need to target, and it's so specific. Um, that uh, you know, it it just makes it easy and it's comfortable for people. So, and you know, there are some people who say, you know, I have this problem. Maybe they don't want it, they've done all sorts of physio massages and anything. Maybe they don't want to see a chiropractor. You know what I mean? As much as it hurts my soul, uh everyone should want to see a chiropractor, but there are some people who still there's that mind block there. Um, they might not want to be adjusted or or or go down that road, but they they'll happily do this. So this is really gonna open up a lot of avenues for a lot of people to benefit. So anyway, Aubrey, thank you very much for agreeing to do this. Get some good information out there, we'll get it, we'll get it out to the masses. Um, and then we'll uh we know we're gonna have amazing results, and people are gonna really uh appreciate it. And then you're gonna you guys are gonna be continue to be successful.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Well, thank you very much. I appreciate you having me, and uh best of luck with your news fine met.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Yeah, it's it's gonna be wicked. We'll let you know how it goes.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Thanks again.