Nunn Better Media EP-2 Johnny & Oscar Mouton- Hollywood Lied About AR-15'S

A retired DC Homicide Detective and Marine veteran joins the show to break down the real-world truth behind gun violence, homicide investigations, and the public debate around AR-15s.

In this episode, Oscar explains what he saw on the streets and in homicide—what weapons were actually used most often, why handguns dominate many cases, and how Hollywood and media imagery can shape public perception. We also get into the cultural side of gun ownership, what civilians often misunderstand about “assault rifles,” and what actually moves the needle when it comes to reducing murders.

If you’re pro-2A, anti-2A, or somewhere in the middle—this is a conversation worth hearing all the way through.

In this episode:

• Why most homicide cases don’t look like TV
• Handguns vs rifles: what Oscar saw most in real cases
• Straw purchases and how guns move on the street
• AR-15 fear vs actual usage in typical homicides
• The DC Sniper case and the “Bushmaster/AR” conversation
• The cultural divide around guns (farm life vs city life)
• What the public gets wrong about “gun control” debates

Chapters:

00:00 Intro + why this conversation matters

00:40 Oscar’s background (MPD homicide / JTTF / military)

03:40 “Murder weapon” myths (Hollywood vs reality)

05:20 What % were handguns vs other methods

06:20 Straw purchases + how guns get trafficked

07:50 AR-15s in homicide cases (and what he actually saw)

10:00 Why criminals choose handguns

11:10 Culture + identity in the gun debate

14:00 Society changes + violence/media influence

17:10 Gun death stats discussion (suicide vs homicide)

20:45 One of the most horrific cases Oscar worked

22:30 What reduces murders (policy + enforcement discussion)

37:05 Wrap-up + upcoming episodes

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Drop a comment: Do you think the public debate focuses on the wrong weapon?

Disclaimer:

This episode is for discussion and educational purposes. Nothing here is legal advice.

#SecondAmendment #GunRights #AR15 #TrueCrime #HomicideDetective #2A #Podcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello everyone, Johnny here from the None Better Podcast. And today we're talking to Oscar, who's a former Marine vet, he's also a former homicide detective in Washington, D.C. And today we're talking about the Second Amendment, AR-15s, what guns are, and what guns aren't. We've been talking about some cool stuff today about Second Amendment and gun rights and some of the things that we're going to talk about. I'm not sure where we're going to dive into tonight's because Oscar is going to be a good thing. A few years ago, I had somebody call me out of the blue, something I posted on Facebook, and basically they chewed me up and down basically for talking. It was about an AR-15 specifically. And so after a few minutes talking to the guy, I come to find out he really had no education on gun laws, guns at all. Never handled a gun, never shot a gun, never been around a gun, right? So I thought this podcast would be a good appetite to educate people about what that is and what that is. And let me give you a little example of why I'm talking with Oscar. So Oscar here is a uh retired uh DC detective, homicide specifically. So he he can attest to what gun violence is and what you've probably done in all those years of in the in the homicide business. Yeah. Not only that, but you also were, I thank you for your service, by the way, but he's also a former uh veteran of Marines. And you also worked in, I think, some special forces and stuff like that after the detective work, if am I correct on that?

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Yeah, so I was a member of the Washington Metropolitan Police Department. Um I moved on from homicide and I was on the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force. Uh, did that and um was well on in my career, almost a little bit more than halfway in my career. And um a really good friend of mine uh contacted me and said that um they were having really bad IED problems in uh Iraq and in Afghanistan. And um he put me in touch with his CEO, his commanding officer. Um they stood up this new program and they uh asked me to be a part of it. So uh I did. And um I went uh from the safe streets of DC to the battlefields of Afghanistan.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

I know you're talking you've done some done some uh definitely a lot of uh traveling around the world and some special cases. So I know uh we could go down a whole rabbit hole on that, I'm sure. I'm gonna stick kind of go back to where your your homicide, the DC detective kind of stuff, because that's kind of more where I think will fit into what we're talking about today. Won't you give me a little, if you give the audience a little rundown, a little bit from how you've become uh Marine, go into the Marines, and then you kind of from there went into your uh police field and worked up to your detective work.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Yeah, so I became a police officer um after college. I I bounced around a little bit, decided I need to settle down, so I went to law enforcement. Um I applied uh everywhere, and DC Metro was the first one uh to bring me back. Um went there and uh got through the academy, which is a nine-month academy. Um, and then I got to my first assignment, which was a third district. Um, third day was really unique um because the third district was um truly where the lines of gentrification were drawn, which were white met black in DC. And um I really learned a lot and it was a great place to all go. Then I became an investigator after a few years in patrol, uh then I became a detective, and um I ended up on I started out on the ATF uh gun recovery task force. Okay. Um and then from there I went to uh homicide. Um then from homicide I went over to the JTTF. Uh but um yeah, the um the the the misidentification that a lot of civilians have is that when you hear murder, they automatically go right to gun.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Gun, yeah, yeah. You know, and that's kind of what we want to talk about here tonight. I kind of what that really looks like. And I think from your experience in the field and being a detective, and especially in homicide, you can attest to what you've seen from whether it be guns or any other things that we've will run across as a homicide detective. I'm sure you've seen it all. Um so that's kind of like a couple of things I want to dive into. Um, what kind of homicide cases did you do? I guess it doesn't even matter. You just work whatever case comes your way. How what kind of cases have you kind of experienced on working on?

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Right. So we're on a we're in a squad, and then um you just get worked into the rotation. So if you're up for the next murder, when the murder comes up.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

So just where it lands on your uh number is your number.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

No rhyme or reason.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

I gotcha, I gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Uh it what depends. Um if the in DC the policy was back then, if it was uh three-person murder, if three there are three homicides or more, then it went to major case uh uh but if it was two one or two, then it would land in the Well, you you obviously see a bunch of TV shows on TV about people doing that.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

I mean, how much is that like real life, or how much is that really not really gonna do this?

SPEAKER_02 5:23

I I wish I could close a a homicide in 48 minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That'd be awesome. Um usually in DC, uh usually within 48 hours, uh, we would know who our shooter was. Um of course it was a murderer used um with a handgun, or a long gun for that matter. Yeah, yeah. Um but you know, it could be it could have been stabbing, it could have been uh BFT blunt force trauma of bludgeoning. Um uh it could have been a strangulation.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

I mean, taking a What percentage you think of your uh ones you worked were gun related versus other things?

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Um I'd say probably 75% handguns.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Um had a lot of um uh we had this one case where um my uh suspect and ultimately my defendant that went to trial and got convicted uh was a 17-year-old girl uh that stabbed uh her sugar daddy um 32 times in the skull.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

You know, and I don't know. She would have loved him. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Well it was uh PCP played a big role in that.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

I know, but you know, uh 95-pound girl being able to penetrate the skull, which is it's it's tough.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

Um with a with a knife.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Um not wherever she was on.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Right, right. So, but uh, you know, we had our we had our bludgeonings, our p BFTs that uh a lot of times it was street fight that just got out of control. Yeah. Um, we also had bl bludgeonings where you um use a brick or cinder block or a bat, you know, to to to kill the decedent.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah, so you've seen all kinds of different things the way people can use her.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Gotcha. But handguns seems like to be the most uh popular thing.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

It was it was in DC um because we had uh we would end up at the um at the very end of different phases. Yeah, phase one, um uh uh one of our uh gang members would talk a girlfriend and aunt uh to go into uh Kentucky or Tennessee. They would straw purchase um five, six, seven handguns, then they would bring it back to Maryland or DC, and then he would quadruple uh the price that he had that he paid for it, yeah, and then just sell it out.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Sure, sure. I obviously I won't when you're dealing with gun um with your situation like that, uh were these a lot of these guns, were they legal or were they illegal guns? They were legally purchased.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

I'd say 95% of them were legally purchased. Um the other five percent are um guns that were taken in home robberies.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Now were the people used that used them, were the ones that actually bought them or were they like secondhand or sell off?

SPEAKER_02 8:00

I we never had we never had a weapon that was uh the the purchaser was a trigger purchase.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

There's always somebody else. Somebody bought it legally and they've just been passed them wherever. Exactly. I gotcha, I gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

And a lot of times I'll do what they try to do is um I learned this on the ATF task force um and in homicide. Uh they tried to um uh uh erase or eliminate the serial numbers.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Um, but I'm not gonna say what that tradecraft is, but we could raise those numbers.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

So in your experiences, you did you uh prosecute any um uh situations where uh AR-15 was actually used in a homicide with you you worked?

SPEAKER_02 8:38

No. Um the only case I ever worked was uh I don't know if you remember the um uh the uh beltweight sniper, Malvo and Mohammed.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Um we worked that case and uh ironically that's a different type of rifle though, isn't that?

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Was it an AR or was it?

SPEAKER_02 8:54

No, it was a bushmaster.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Uh same thing, uh, you know, 223.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Um it looks the same. Aesthetically, it looks the same. Um, but for manufacturing purposes, it has had a slight difference from the original model. Yeah. Um, but interestingly enough, in that case, um, because that that I I don't know if you remember the case, but um Malva Muhammad, they've did just cause havoc in the DC, Maryland, Virginia area for for about 30 days, just arbitrarily killing people. Um started out in Maryland at Michael's and then they worked their way into DC. They only did one murder in DC. Um, but then they they stayed in Maryland and they stayed in Virginia to do their homicides.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

So I find it kind of funny because you talk about all those cases you've done, and the majority of them were handguns, and you actually personally, well, you did one rifle, basically, it sounds like it was an AR, but we'll call it an AR for argument's sake, because it's similar. But you know, I got attacked or yelled at because they were timid by a gun the way it looked, but it's the least amount of gun that you really should be fearful of, in my opinion, right? You're not you don't see AR-15s accurate from mowing with people all the time. It's usually used in uh, I hate to say it, but they use in these mass shootings where they can pin a big magazine there, they can pretty pretty accurate gun. You can shoot from long ranges and just go at it. Um or a handgun, obviously you can only shoot for certain distances, you're not as accurate, can't hold as much ammo usually.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

I mean, yeah, clips you can, but you you know what I'm saying. They have bigger magazines for the rifles and stuff. So they can do a lot more damage faster, quicker, you know, that sort of thing. Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

So um uh a couple things I learned over the years talking to my uh people that I would take into custody uh for doing a murder, um 10 out of 10 times they'll use a handgun because it firstly it's easily hidden, it's easily disposed, and it's a lot harder to find um than a long gun. Um an AR, for example. Yeah. Um you know, a lot of people when when they think homicide or or you know murder on that of that caliber, no pun intended. Yeah. Um they uh they immediately they immediately go to what Hollywood has influenced them to be.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

And Hollywood is uh, as a matter of fact, um we had um when we would testify in court, they started finding um that a lot of the jurors were influenced by different TV shows. I don't doubt it. And uh it got to a point where uh the judge would have to, you know, give orders from the bench um to the jury and say, this isn't a TV show. Uh this case wasn't solved in, you know, in 50 minutes or whatever it was. Um it's a process. And you know, the the the the juries and much of America's public has to be schooled that what they think of as a murder weapon isn't what Hollywood tells them a murder weapon is.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

What kind of goes to this question is that what do you uh the public debate is mostly to me, it seems like it's more, it's not about public safety, it's more about culture identity. Yeah, that's for sure. I mean, I think that's kind of what I see. It's like people, you have the people that like, and then you know a history of how I grew up, right? So this is how I look at guns too, because you know, and I understand that my friend that called me, he didn't grow up in that culture. I grew up in the South, right? I grew up on the farm, like I have a farm life. So guns in the back of our pickup trucks were normal. Stopping by and shooting a squirrel for dinner was normal. Like guns were I was raised from a kid, like having a 22, walking around and shooting around and pegging around. That was just like having a, you know, it was normal. It was a normal day of life. Now you f go to somebody who like my friend Dave who called me, lives, I think he grew up in Virginia, uh, you know, in the uh kind of more in the government. They worked all in the government and all that. Um never was brought up in that kind of lifestyle, right? So it was a very different culture, right? And I and I guess it's different everywhere you go for different parts of this of the world. But the South for me is like, you know, we're I'm a farmer guy. So guns and rifles was just part of life. So I didn't I didn't I just don't take it, I don't look at it that way. We went to school with gun racks in our back. We never thought about grabbing a gun and going in there and shooting our friends up. Like it, this is never thought like that. If anything, we grabbed our gums to support you know to support one another or for safety if somebody were to come around. We had plenty of gunpowder out in our truck sitting waiting to go if we needed to, you know. Right. So I I guess the difference is culture and to some degree, but I see a lot of propaganda on the news, on other media platforms that just really talk about and they want to hone in on a on AR-15, what it's called, because it's the way it looks. Is that what Matt is that accurate? Is that it's really based on because of what it looks like?

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Well, sure, even when um when a a news or a news story comes up on TV, um next time you're watching that to your audience as well, the next time you're watching a a news station reporting a homicide or a shooting, they always have uh screen behind them and usually has like you know like a victim like outlined in yellow tape or something. And a lot of times it's an uh an AR that looks at it now. That's subliminally suggesting you know that that weapon was used in this homicide. Yeah, all it is is clip art.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

But but you know that that that's just one way the media really gets that point across.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

And if you're not really educated in guns, if I were to pull that gun out and give it to you, you would think you're held in something you would held in the military or something, right? Although you know that's not the case, but that's what it feels like or looks like to them when you're not educated in guns at all. Right. So I think educating people and understanding what guns are and what they're not, and how we use them and what you can use them for. Like I said, I I I think the analogy earlier, like a car, you can either drive a pinto or you can drive a Ferrari, right? Right. There's guns that you can bolt action and slow and long and steady, or you can get an AR that's like a Ferrari, and you can go fast and you can be accurate and you can have fun.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Well, society has changed too. Uh when I was growing up at the risk of aging myself, my um one of the junior highs that I went to, they had a rifle club. And, you know, back then, you know, you could give a group of, you know, 13-year-olds a bunch of 22s. You know, the school that I went to had a range in it, and um you could practice shooting. Yeah. You know, nobody ever turned a gun on each other. Um some kids brought, you know, some kids were given their guns from home to bring in what to school with them. They get to school early and they'd secure that weapon in the gun range. Um, you know, society's taken a huge change. Oh yeah. You know, I mean, it really has. It's been influenced by, and I don't know if I agree with this, but it made sense to me. Um, remember a show called Miami Vice? Oh yeah. Right? I mean, it it it it just Ferrari sales with this guy during that show. But um, you know, it was a combination of uh Miami Vice and gun violence um that the urban areas, I should say, um start seeing an uptick.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

You know, somewhere along the lines, um the uh the somebody made a connection between narcotics, uh, you know, distribution, your drug dealers, and them having to carry uh guns. I talked to some of in DC, I'd talk to some of the old heads, you know, guys that were selling dope in the 60s and the 70s, and they were like, I never carried a gun.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Why would I carry a gun? That's just gonna that's just gonna uh add on to my time, you know, because it goes from distribution to distribution while armed. You know, I mean that's that that's a that's a big deal. Oh yeah. Especially in DC, because don't forget DC is a federal system. Freeze your time quite a bit. Yeah.

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SPEAKER_02 17:04

Absolutely. I mean it's up to the judge, but the judge's got the good sentencing guidelines that he or she uh can uh sentence that defended to. Um, but somewhere along the lines, the culture changed. Oh, yeah. You know, some people say it was because of TV, TV got more violent.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Um, I think if you could look at um you're I think we're close to the same age. You watch the TV shows in the 60s and 70s, and then fast forward to what you're seeing now, like what's on TV now was never allowed when we were kids. Right. And even young adults. Like it wasn't even allowed on TV. You couldn't you'd have to go have cable TV or something that can grasp. But what's allowed on TV now, and the violence that's allowed now, the sexuality, all of it. Like it's all just totally changed. Obviously, that's changed the culture.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

I don't know, I don't know when the bar got raised, or actually lowered, I should say. I don't know when the bar got uh uh I mean the FCC, are they the ones that you know uh monitor that? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

I think so to some degree. I just don't know the the specifics of all that, but right uh I don't know when where we're gonna from you know having this good clean talk where you can now cuss on TV and it's not really a big deal too much. Like it's I see it getting way more and more of that. Yeah, absolutely. Um whatever. I mean, I we can I guess that's that's whole other debate we could have, right? Right. We're already culture change on everything. So it definitely was in our lifetime, I can tell you that. No doubt. Um let's talk a little bit. I got some stats here in front of us. I thought we would bring that up, talk a little bit about that. Um, one of the main things that people let's just talk about how many gun deaths are on total on the United States. I think last year, or it was just based on 2023, there's almost a little less than 50,000, 49,300. But we have to break this really in two facets because there's suicide and then there's homicide.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Uh suicide makes up about 60% of gun deaths, so it's a whole different ball of wax, whole different topic. I don't think we need to go there. It kind of answers for itself, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Still tragic uh that people are using goods. It's probably the quickest, fastest way to take your life if you want to do it. That's probably less painful. It's probably your gun.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

So most of the suicides that I dealt with in DC were hangings. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

They would hangings, okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

They would hang themselves. Uh because more more often than not, um, they were law-abiding people that just had a horrible turn in their life, and that was the only way out. Yeah, that's sad. It is sad. You know, I mean, trust me, having to make that phone call or having to- You can only imagine having to walk in on that phone. Oh, we it was called a next of kin notification. And I love being a cop. I loved all all aspects of it, except for that having to go into somebody's home and um and having to tell them that their son, daughter, father, mother, you know, feeling like that.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Yeah, that's that can't be a fun conversation to have.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

No.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

So moving from suicide, that goes back into the homicide of things. So that's 40 makes up about 40% of uh homicide deaths with hand or with guns. But then you break it down even further than that. Now you're talking, if you look at the FBI stats, it breaks it down from handguns to knives to personal weapons, which is basically your hand, feet, whatever, that sort of thing, blunt objects, and then rifles are below all those other things. So in the scheme of things, rifles make up the most, and we're not even defining specific rifles. AR-15 is in a mess of a huge circle of rifles, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

So you could have five, it could have been a 22 rifle, it could have been in that mess that we don't we don't know. They don't break it down that far. So if you're talking about the other 40%, so basically you had roughly 8,000 people or 8,000 deaths by handguns versus 500 by rifles. Right. And that's a big significant number, right? And that's not even talking about you're more likely to be killed by a knife or cutting an instrument, you're more likely to be killed by your hand or feet, you're more likely to be killed by a hammer than by a rifle of any kind. Right. And so that's my argument here. And I don't dismiss the death by rifle, it's still all tragic. But I'm trying to uh make people understand that you're fascinated on the wrong thing.

unknown 20:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

And you're not educated in what really guns are and what they're not. Um if you really want to make a difference, if you really wanted to push gun control, then handgun would be your your choice of gun to go after, because it would make the difference.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

You know, I'd rather I'd rather be nice and far away so I can make make my escape a lot easier. Oh, absolutely. You know, but I mean, if I was uh if I was an 18-year-old kid on the streets that didn't know any better, uh doesn't really know how to he doesn't go he or she doesn't go to the range, you know, every two weeks, you know, they don't understand the weapon. Uh they've got to get close and personal to make that shot.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Yeah, well, obviously F-14, you if you can shoot from a distance, especially with scopes now and all that, you can really get some out there. But you know, a lot of I'm sure a lot of um handgun violence, you get a lot of that's in gang related stuff. So handguns, like you said, easy to conceal, walk around, no one sees it. Right. It's all short range stuff, but they just pop up, pop up and go anyway. They're just kind of you know just spreading and growing, so they're not even trying to aim too much in some of those cases, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

Right, no, it's they they they you know, they spray and prank.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Yeah, yeah. Hope you hit something and just roll and unload and go. Exactly. A bunch of aiming going on there, yeah. So uh can you can you give me an example? I I hate to even ask you this, and if you don't want to share, I understand, but could you give me a Um, you know, maybe like the worst case you've worked on that was like the worst thing you've seen? Um yeah. That may be bad. I don't know. Again, I want to pitch on the spot because I know it's gonna be traumatic and no, no.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

It's um I mean, yeah, it's it's traumatic, but you know, um you just learn to kind of block that out and not think about it anymore. You know, that's one thing. When I first got the homicide, the veteran detectives told me, never take it home with you. You know, never leave it with the home. I'm sure that's hard. Initially it was, but after you know, after a year or two, it it be it became a lot easier. Um I guess one of the one of the more horrific cases we had was uh this young man had uh his crew, his gang, had thought that he had been snitching. Um so they uh found an abandoned building and they took him down into the basement of the abandoned building and um tied him to a chair and then just slowly started breaking all the bones in his body. Oh wow. Um and then when they were done after like about four or five hours of that, um he he just started going to shock. He wouldn't talk anymore. So they doused him in fire or to doused him in gasoline and set him a place.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

That's horrible.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

I can't even imagine walking to seeing something like that.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yeah, I mean, uh, you know, it wasn't it wasn't so much uh the scene. I mean the scene was n beyond beyond belief, very graphic. Um the smell. The smell is what get you. You know, and that's when I I learned how to breathe through my mouth. Because, you know, um a lot of a lot of scenes can really get very messy.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Well, I had this question, but I'm gonna say it anyway because I think the answer we'll get to this. A question was, you know, if if the go was fewer murders, what actually would move the needle in the city, right? And I think our answer is, and I just found this out because if you notice, uh since they've done all this migration and getting all these people out, murders drop by 20%.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

So getting out illegal uh immigrants that are committing or committing murders or doing you know illegal acts.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Sounds like that's part of the part of the problem.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

No, there's no doubt. Um, you know, a lot of uh the the open the open border policy uh before this administration um it absolutely crushed um our our state and local infrastructures. I bet. You know, from police officers respond responding to a scene to the hospital having to deal with what happened on that scene, um, to the welfare that was needed to prop these people up. I mean it was it was bad.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

All around thing.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

And I can I can actually speak to that because I'm an immigrant to this country. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Uh from Cuba, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Yeah, I was born and raised in Cuba, and my family came here, they did it the right way. They pull they applied for political asylum. Um, you know, they spent here, they got their I55 cards or green cards, and then after nine years of not shooting anybody or dealing drugs or doing anything like that, trafficking people. Um, you know, my mom and dad, they each worked we each worked two, three uh uh three jobs a week, you know, um to chase that American dream, which they found. Um, and then after nine years, we all became Americans.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

That's an awesome story. It is.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

And uh I'm very proud of them.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

You know, since we're kind of on this touch, I know we're I wasn't really going on this whole thing with, but I think over here we'll just talk a little bit about it. I know we've had two tragic deaths that's happened in the last couple weeks with, you know, with ice and all this sort of thing. Um one of the core things I noticed that stays the same is it's usually in places where the local police and local government is not cooperative. Right. And they're not uh handing over, like if you're here in Florida, they they hand over the when they get convicted here and they just hand them over from there, easy peasy, there's no fighting, everybody's good. But when you're in a place where the local government is releasing these people back into the crowd, and it doesn't matter what you did, back out you go, and that hand these people over, and then they don't want to cooperate with you with crowd control or any of those things. And then you got people like agitators like they're doing when they start getting there and they're agitating these police and they're boxing them in from a law enforcement standpoint. I mean, you see this lady who uh obviously was in her car, uh obviously it's your kind of tar term, but she's basically, you know, she's toward the guy, and this poor guy that happened to just I think a few months prior to that was already drugged 100 feet by a car or somebody. So he's already probably on edge, I would imagine. Sure. Um, so his reaction to what he did to her was probably like in his mind is justified because I just got ran over just six months ago. And this lady just you mean whether it's a bump, hit, slight hit, which's still a 3,000-pound vehicle, from your perspective as a law enforcement, I would think you would probably feel the same way this guy would have felt in that situation.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

Well, the one thing they didn't talk about that, I mean, that that that whole her name was good. Um the driver's name was good, the decedent. Um the one thing it didn't cover, at least I didn't hear about it, was um the one uh agent was at the window talking to her, and the other officer was just in front of the headlight, the left front headlight. And what they didn't talk about was he was actually covering his partner at the window. Nobody ever talked about that. Yeah. You know, he couldn't get another better vantage point without putting his partner between him and her.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

So he's actually covering his partner. And I and there's no doubt in my mind because in DC, while we try to we try and we're taught not to get in front of vehicles, yeah. Sometimes, you know, the script is unwritten.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Well, and you're also dealing in a situation where you've got all kinds of people agitation out there, protesting going on. These ladies not to mention, they were out there a while being agitators. They weren't like they just showed up on the scene and that's what happened. Right. They'd already been there for a while. They've already been yelling, screaming, and saying these things to these police officers, and you don't have any local support, you know, keeping them at bay so they can just do their job. That's usually what you see in a lot of these places like that, where the local police is handling the crowd control. You know, the IS goes in and does the work they're having to do. And then, you know, it's not something, you know, you ain't gotta deal with all that. But you don't have any local government or local police helping you fill that. And now they're having to deal with crowd control and trying to arrest whoever they're trying to do.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

That can't be uh no, it's not in DC, for example, right? We have uh we were called CDU, uh civil disservice unit. Every officer uh wears a badge in DC, doesn't matter if you're a detective, a lieutenant, whatever, because we would get huge demonstrations. We'd get uh W um WTF, World Trade Foundation, um, uh also the IMF International Monetary Fund, we'd get 300, 400,000 demonstrators in DC. Yeah. Now what would happen in in Minneapolis, while very sad, it was very, you know, compared to what I've seen. But the thing is, we were dialed in in D.C., but we also had the support of uh Maryland State Troopers, Virginia State Troopers, Fairfax County, Montgomery County, PG County. They would they would send you know a couple hundred of their officers down to augment us. Yeah. And we worked beautifully together. And that's state, local, and federal. What happened in Minneapolis was a breakdown in communication. I've seen that chief of police um from Minneapolis. Very rarely do I speak ill of a brother in blue, but wherever he learned to be a chief of police, he needs to go back and get retrained. Retrained. Because he failed his, he failed his worse, he failed his men, the rank and file, but he re he failed the people of Minneapolis.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

I um I hate to see it. Like he just I can't imagine this is going in in our country. That's just the hard thing. Is it going in in our country, right? We're seeing this kind of thing going on. Um I don't get it, I don't understand it. I mean, proof's into putting to me. Like we've seen, you know, our murder rate drop. Lows it's been 125 years. I mean, a test is something that's you can't just let people in.

SPEAKER_03 29:41

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Um, you know, you got I'm okay with people coming. I have a my sister-in-law, she's from Columbia. And uh she had to come through here to the legal channels, and she spent a lot of money, a lot of time. She's also she's a master, she has a master's degree, like she's an educated person. It's the people that you want to come over who's gonna produce immediately, not be a drag on society. And the amount of effort, hard work, the time, and they almost sent her back even after all that, and they're not they're married and two have two kids at this point. So I've as someone who's experienced legal migration, and just someone like yourself, uh, just let anybody come across and then we give them all these free handouts, and that's a drag on everybody. Like it's you're paying for it, I'm paying for it, everybody's paying for it, and there's no end in sight. Like it's just getting worse and worse and worse. So at some point you have to draw the line and say, uh, this, you know, we've drawn the line now, we have to do this. We don't have a choice, we can't afford it, number one. I mean, illegal migration costs us billions and billions and billions of dollars. Like it can't, it's not sustainable.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Well, let's let's go down this rabbit hole for a halfway down the rabbit hole. Oh, fine, fine. All right, you know, what what leads to this 20 million illegal uh illegal uh immigrants coming over the border? Well, it's politics.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

You know, and a lot of people don't like to talk about the P word, but it is politics drives that. Yeah, and you had a lot of good, a lot of good men and women that are on CBP that are basically turned a told to turn the blind eye to all of this. That's malfeasance. Yeah, that's absolutely in my organs right now. I absolutely hope that he gets prosecuted, at the very least for dereliction of duty. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Because what do I'm just wondering when we're gonna see somebody. I don't care if Democrat, Republican, whoever's responsible. Right, somebody's responsible, we're gonna pay the price for doing these kind of things to the American people, lying about it, all these and there's all these cover-ups. I mean, there's so much we can go down and talk about. It's crazy. But um, as I, you know, as I know, as you start seeing these things, like when does it stop? When does it end? And I think now with the administration that we currently have, they've they're at least drawing a line on this end and saying this is what we're gonna do now.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Um, whether it's you know, obviously I feel like it's the right thing. We gotta deport at least all these hardened criminals and people that are creating all these crimes that are not here legally. They they have to go. Like, I don't that's not why this is so complicated to me that most people that have this.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

I mean, there's the more sophisticated cruise gangs, if you will, right? Um, what they're gonna do initially is they're gonna offer up sacrificial lamps. Those are the guys that they're they're low-hanging fruit for law enforcement. Yeah. Get them um uh uh put have a um immigration order, uh um deportation uh order put on them, and then um make sure he goes to trial. Make sure he goes to trial, gets uh 10-year, 12-year, whatever the sentence is, and then deport him. And if he comes back and he's stopped, he doesn't go past go. He's looking at 12 years right out of the gate.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

You know, that's a great start. But the thing is, look at all the money that came out of Minneapolis. Oh, tons. You know, I mean, and the thing is, and I haven't seen the the reports because I'm not in that loop anymore, but what I I have heard from some friends I have at DOJ is that they were they were um taken to tunes of anywhere from $900,000 to a million dollars a day, flying it out of Minneapolis back to Somalia.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Oh wow. And we know I mean obviously you they've exposed all this fraud out there. So I mean, you know this goes on around a lot of states, I'm sure. It does.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

And uh But the problem the problem is these are it's your tax dollar, it's my tax dollar. Yeah. You know, I take great issue with that.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

I do too.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

You know, I mean, I I've I've raised my kids to be financially responsible. You know, and if if they mess up, well, I'm I'm gonna get on them. You know, but the the these people have to be made an example of because if if they aren't, then their kids are gonna grow up saying, well, you know, grandpa, you know, grandpa did it, dad did it, I'm gonna do it. Yeah, and now it becomes a generational issue.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Well, it's not coincidence you go in you know in politics, uh, you know, pretty poor and you come out on the other end with a you know multi-million dollar deal.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Um, it's it's it seems like they all do it, so it's just no coincidence.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

Well, they they they they they found a way to beat the system. Yeah, for sure. You know, but shame on those. I mean, you know, shame on the people in charge who are the stewards of our money for not catching this sooner. Had it up been, you know, a 23-year-old civilian. Just an independent guy just doing his thing. Right?

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Independent guy doing his thing, just saying, hey, I I care about the fraud, I want to investigate it, and I'm gonna go out and do some stuff. And he and he did it, and then just that little guy, so it makes you wonder what is our what is our real news people doing? Well, scary scenario, what if he hadn't taken the initiative and done it?

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Yeah, it would have kept going on and on and on. How close did that governor come to being the second most powerful man in America?

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Very close. Very close.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

That's that's scary. Talk about imagine, look at the fraud that he that he oversaw um in his state. Could you imagine if it had been done on a national level?

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Oh, I'm sure there's some corruption on a national level. We just don't know. I'm sure it's there. I'm sure it's there.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

The thing is, left or right, those people need to be held to account.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Yeah, to me, it's not about Republican Democrat anymore. It's about right or wrong.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

And I don't care what side of the aisle you're working on or what you're that's your party, whatever, but if you're doing wrong, then you need to pay.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

And I think all of them need to make examples. I think they're all a corrupt. I don't think you'd agree with that. I mean, you can say one's better than the other, and I agree. There's party things I feel better about on certain parts than others, but at the end of the day, they both have a lot of corruption. Absolutely. And uh it's been a lot way for a long time and allowed to be that way a long time.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

Two words, man. Term limits. I totally agree. I've been banging that drum for at least 12 years now. And you know, the louder I bang, the less people hear.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

I know, it's like they don't want to hear.

unknown 35:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Like their heads in the sand.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

If you're in the if you're up in the, you know, up there, you're not you're not listening to anything I got to say because they're their blinds are getting pocketed all this way, and they got they're gonna add a back end strategy once they get out of all this money coming in, you know, lobbying and all the other things. So uh it's just uh it's a huge circle of just uh ripping the taxpayer off.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Well the founding fathers, the founding fathers never ever envision the politic the pro politician that's a professional that does it for 30 or 40 years. There's this guy named Waxman. He was um uh he was a representative from California, and this a couple years ago, I was watching on the news he was retiring after like 49 years. And I was like, my God, 49 years, this man must have been like a rock star and just because his people kept on sending him back and back and back. So I was like, I just curiosity got the best of me. So I looked up and looked him up. He only passed like two pieces of legislation in almost half a century of being on the hill.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

And I'm sure that's probably uh powerful the course for some cases. Exactly. I mean, like they never get anything done, they're just there.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Well, that's what that's what people know. That's what people know. You know, the black community has known the Democratic Party for years, but now you see a lot, a lot of very brave men and women that are breaking with that and and and questioning the Democratic. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

Yeah, and I applaud I applaud them for that. Absolutely. I probably anybody should be looking to a lot of this stuff. There's a lot of things out there that we've been towed that ain't true. Do your homework. Do your homework for sure. And that goes back to this, and I know we're getting short on time here, so it goes back to what we're talking about here. And the reason I wanted you guys to really understand that do your educate, educate yourself, don't assume anything, especially if you're looking on your news or even right now with social media, there's so much stuff out there these days that can really steer you wrong information. Do your homework, look it up like I did here. And I'm not dismissing uh the gun desk at all with rifles. I'm just trying to tell people that don't be so intimidated because of the way it looks. It really has nothing to do with it. Um it's more about the user, what they choose to use. And I understand that in school shootings, ARs are kind of a choice of gun, and we talked about why uh why they would use that versus over a handgun.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

It's easy. Well, the AR is very easy to use. Yes, easy, easy gun. It was built, it was built um for who? The infantry. Yeah. Yeah, and the infantry, a lot of times you've got to be able to get to your weapon fast and be able to bring it to your shoulder and use it fast.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Um, that's why it was designed. And the thing is, over time, um uh it it it's it's you've been able to put more attachments to it.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Sure. You know, the made more product for that sort of perfect. I mean, I decked it out with everything, you know. Right. I wanted to look cool like a military guy. Yeah. And does it make it look more fierce? Yeah, it does. It does give it that look of oh wow, that's impressive. Even though the performance of it's still the same. It just looks like I've got all this stuff on there. It looks like I would be out there, you know, chasing down uh bad guys. Exactly. You know, and people people like that, that people like that look. Of course, the movies make it look, you know. You watch action movies, they make it look, you know, all this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

So even more nefarious.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Exactly. Way more nefarious. But anyway, guys, thanks for joining us. Oscar, thanks for coming in, my friend. My pleasure. We'll do this again. We'll talk about more about your experience and maybe in your military side and some of those things. You got stories for days, I know you do. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, that we can talk about. But uh, I hope this episode educated a little bit. Do your homework. Um, don't be uh don't be dumb like my friend Dave and call me and start harassing me without any kind of facts because you're not gonna you're not gonna stand long with me anyway. So, but anyway, that's think about it for this week, guys. I'm not sure what our next. We've got a couple of music subjects, I think, come up, Ricky. We're gonna be doing uh with the band called um uh Anonymous Prime. They're actually doing a 27-year reunion band punk band that I'm actually playing guitar for. So we're gonna be doing a podcast with them. And then I have some friends of mine called from Flora that are gonna be coming in. They're a band that tours around the area and all over Florida that we're gonna be talking with them. So that's gonna be coming out here pretty soon. So be uh looking for that. We're gonna have Oscar back on here pretty soon. We'll talk some more about his experiences because I would love to hear more about your military side and some of those experiences. I think it'll be an awesome show. So hope this uh uh educated you guys. Like I said, do your homework, and uh, we'll be back next time. Until then, think about it.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

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