Lima: "Navigating Tongan and Religious Identity" with Elina Tuitupou

Another week Another Episode,  Elina Tuitupou shared about her personal journey growing up in a Tongan while navigating culture and religious identity. She opens up about what it means to be a convert member and how that experience can shape the way she sees herself. 

This episode is about understanding, respect, and learning how people can hold both culture and religion in meaningful ways while still staying true to who they are.

Streaming now and connect with us online @thirdwatchpodcast
Apple Podcast | Spotify | Youtube | Instragram | Tik Tok | Facebook

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Welcome back, my lily talofa. And welcome to the third one. Yes, yes, we made it to another week. No one has cancelled us yet. So yeah, we're grateful that you're able to tune us, uh, tune in with us again. Um, it's been an awesome last couple of weeks, and people still responding and still finding out about the podcast. So, yeah, Dil, how's it been for you? Oh, it's been amazing. I feel uh I feel like a superstar. You mean as moon? I mean, you know, we have beautiful uh topics, we have beautiful shirts. I mean, last week you were that he wore a blue shirt, guys. It was the ocean, and now he's wearing a red shirt. Yes, the Red Sea! Which is fitting because the Red Sea is a place we call Tonga, yeah? Yes, yes, yes. Which brings us to our topic as well as our guest today. We do have our very special friend um Lena with us. But today we really wanted to touch on uh the topic of religion and culture. So, how does a Tongaan person or someone from Tonga navigate those two spaces? So uh we've invited our friend Elina to Dubo. And we'll give her some time to introduce herself.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

So, yeah, thank you. Um my name is Elina De Dubo. I am from Tonga, born and raised. Uh, I'm an international student here at BY Hawaii, majoring in political science, minor in Pacific Study and Social Work. I am in my senior year. Almost then.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

And uh relationship studies, single, married, taking none of the above. And uh you're a senior, so you excited to go home or you very excited. Yeah. How many more semesters do you have left?

SPEAKER_00 2:11

I think I have two.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Two more semesters. So fall and in winter next year?

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

That's cool. That's cool. Well, congratulations. The five percent of Tongans that graduate. Actually walked the stage there. But yes, we're glad that you're here to represent not just Tongaans, but you know, Polynesians straight from the islands, yeah, to see the unique perspective. Growing up in Tonga, we have you have so much wisdom there, and we want to tap onto that, yeah. And you know, Tongan is your first language. We call Tongan the celestial language. Yeah, because we're the other side of heaven. Yeah, because we're heaven and you guys are the other side. You're the side of heaven that has no walls. Open door to everybody. But in saying that we want to dive right in. Yeah. Growing up of as a Tonga myself, but born outside of Tonga, you know, we heard about and have experienced church and and religion and how they balance, and how religion is deeply embedded in our culture. So we wanted to ask you, you know, what does uh how is religion viewed in Tonga?

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Um the way I see it, I feel like uh religion is a very serious business in Tonga. Because I feel like it's part of our identity in the way that I just talked about how Christianity came about in Tonga. Yeah. Um came like for missionaries to Tonga, and somehow the first king of Tonga uh accepted Christianity and it came to a part that Tonga was given to God.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

And if you reckon in the Tonga flag, there is a grass, like you can see just how much Christianity is about in our culture. Yeah, right, yeah. And also if you look at the Tonga in goat of arms, it says God and Tonga are my inheritance. So you see how religious is somehow like intertwined of culture. Yeah. And I feel like it is very, a very big thing in Tonga, it's everyday life.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, so it's not just a religious identity, but a cultural identity as well. Um Tonga they do have the Ten Commandments part of the Constitution, is that right? Yes. Yeah. Do you think people still keep those um that are part of the constitution, or is it like above other parts of the constitution, or do you think it's not the Ten Commandments I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_00 4:41

I feel like people some people still keep the commandments, like the Ten Commandments, and some people they don't.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Right, right. I think it's a very personal thing. I think the main part is that religion is part of our constitution, which shows like a lot of Western societies, they separate the two. Culture and religion should never mix. But Tonga is unique that we blend them, that they represent each other. And so if we use these religious principles within our core constitution, it helps us become better people. And we went just like any place, there's no one that's gonna follow all the laws to the T. But uh the commandments being part of the law gives us the extra incentive to follow. Because it it does have a lot of I think it had has a lot of uh a good influence on on people. Yeah. Because it really does give them the perspective of the culture and as well as the religion. And I think it kind of becomes part of life where it's easy for them to keep the commandments. Like I've seen I've had families gone of friends have gone to Tonga and they've experienced where Sunday is, you know, it's not just uh any type of Sunday, it's like you can't shop, you can't do any type of work on Sunday in Tonga. So I feel like with that being part of of tradition as well as as culture, has really brought I guess the two things together. Which n not many people would know how to navigate. So I guess with that, Alina, um how has religion played a role in part of your identity? So now that we've kind of spoken a little bit about Tonga, how does church play a a part as part of your identity?

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Um I feel like for me personally, uh given the church and also the Ten Commandments and all that, I feel like it shaped my life personally, like to act, the way I act, the way I behave. I feel like that's how religions play the role in me to respect, I mean respect serving others, and yeah, I feel like religion and culture just intertwine which is like help communities function and also help us individually.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Yeah. Because so going back to religion part, because you've you you're convert to the church, right? Yes. Yeah. So what was your religion before?

SPEAKER_00 7:04

I was uh Seven Day Adventist. Right before.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Yeah. And how was it being a seven-day Adventist going from that to being an LDS member? How was that transition for you? Was it easy? Was it hard? Like a decision when it came to making that decision.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

I feel like it was not easy, not that hard. But it it was hard at home because it my parents didn't take it like they weren't excited about me being a member of the church. But I feel like um the way I say it, my parents were kind of of very mad. And I understand it because um I didn't let them know before I become a member of the church. Wow. So I was a convert without my parents knowing, and when they found out my dad was kind of okay with it, but my mom was so mad at me.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

So against the huh?

SPEAKER_00 8:08

To a time that she whipped me. Wow. Without that whipping of love. I mean, I'm the whipping you and they tell you that they that's part of the way that they show you they love you. That hurts me more than it hurts you.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Um, so so with that then, why did you convert?

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Okay, that's a good question. I my family, my mom's side of the family, they're all members of the church. Uh-huh. My mom at one point was a member of the church, but then she got married outside.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Of the church. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Um so my auntie invited me to listen to the missionary. And that is how I became a member of the church. Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Wow, and and how much of Tonga are members?

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Like, is it a lot or I would say as of now, according to right now, if like 60% of the population of Tonga. If we're going by membership uh record, it indicates that uh around 60% of Wow, such a small island.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Sixty percent are in the light. Yes, yeah. And then some only 10%. Wow, 60%. That's a that's a big number. So that's how many LDS members there are.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Yes, according to membership records.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

But what about religious wise? Like, is it like would you say nine, ninety, I would say 90 or above.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Are religious people religious?

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Wow, that's cool. That goes to show, right, how deeply rooted religion is. There's no like religion and culture almost. It's like the same thing. But uh thank you for sharing your experience. You know, we we feel that that spirit of conversion, but I also feel it's owed to the environment in Tonga, yeah. Which leads to our next question. You know, what um does church life look like in Tonga? And how does it differ? How is it different from you know your experience in church life here in the US? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

I feel like church life in Tonga is more collective in ways that the word and your stake, it's more like your extended family.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Like the way I see it here and um out of in the US, I would say it's more like uh a weekly activity. You just go to church because it's Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

How we uh later What ward are you in, Bishop? So you so you think it's a community thing for Tonga, like the community or societal ways of looking after one another, but here in the US is a little bit different. Do you think it's different because of what you're experiencing right now in terms of being a YSA in a school, not in a in a family ward?

SPEAKER_00 11:11

I think that's anything that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Wow. That is cool. I I think I agree. Like, um obviously I wasn't in donga like you, but even in New Zealand, right, or in Australia, uh Polynesians tend to work together. Like if anyone needs help, you know, we go. You just call us and we're there for you. Right, right. And the one thing that I touched on before was especially the music, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Yeah, and I feel like uh the it can one of the difficulties can be, you know, diversity, like different culture and all that.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

That could be Yeah. Because everyone has different things, right? BYUH University of Hawaii is blended with Polynesian as well as Asian cultures and the Americans, and so everyone's trying to navigate those, yeah. But you cut me off with my music. Well, I believe, right, the music in the islands are so beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Because it's a prayer, right? And when we sing, we sing from where?

SPEAKER_00 12:08

The heart.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Yes, the mouth.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

The heart.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

And and I'm not saying that they don't sing from the heart here, but you know, I feel like they could definitely add some volume. Anyway, that is my thoughts. I think that's what I see as different from the Tonga perspective. Yeah. Um, as a as a student here in in Biwei Hawaii, um, how has religion and culture helped you sort of navigate school for you?

SPEAKER_00 12:41

I feel like religion and culture. I feel like being away from home, I feel like our families and ancestors they've done a lot of sacrifices, you know, for families. And I just see myself doing the same, like sacrifice the time that I have with my family to be here to be educated. I feel like in order to get good things in life, we all need to make that sacrifice. And being here in school, away from home, I feel like remembering home can be one of the motivations and inspiration for you to move on uh I mean to pursue with education in life and just in religion as well, as you we think about the teachings and all that, we look back at how Jesus Christ's life is. We kinda look back. So we're kinda inspired of how our our ancestor sacrifices and how God I mean religion can also help us to navigate through life.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yeah, I love that. I think a lot of our Polynesian stories really goes with r our religious way of belief, right? Like there's so many things that kinda interwove together or or it kinda you know, links together when it comes to religious values as well as cultural values. And I think that's why a lot of the Polynesian people are very religious in that way. Right. So especially when like for example in Tonga. Because of that constitution, there's part of not only a constitution for people to as part of law, but it's also part of religious law or commandments, right? Because of that has made push people a little a little bit more over to the religious side of things. And not only religious but as well as lawful lawful in the way that we keep um laws and of the land. So I think a lot of our Polynesian people are really religious in that way. And I think it's an amazing thing that our Polynesian people are becoming more religious, especially this generation. Um there's so many people that uh have gone away with a few from any church, they've gone away from Christ and now they're returning back and yeah. Can you show us a journey of you know when you were gone for six years? Was it I don't know what you're talking about? But uh uh um talking I want to ask you a question, Neil. I think going from um going as a as a tonga in diaspora, do you feel like there's a difference uh of feelings when it comes to people from the island towards diaspora and vice versa of diaspora to the people in Tonga? Yeah, I wanted to ask you this question actually, but I can share my perspective first. Okay. Well, growing up, obviously, I feel like there was a kind of separation between uh the Tongan Tongans and then the other Tonguans. What's the other Tongan? Maymoody. They always call us Maymoodi or from other nations, right? Um for different reasons. But when I grew up, you know, all the Tonguans in high school, you know, because I sucked at speaking the language then, I mean it's still pretty much like now. But I was way worse then, you know. They would uh mock me saying, bro, how can you be tongu' and you can't even speak the language? Right, right. Right? And there's such a kind of you know, little kid mindset, but it was those little things that kind of pushed me away from learning. From yeah, learning the culture, but more so from actually wanting to be with culture, real tongues. Because you know, you feel you're being judged because we can't embrace the culture as deeply as people from Donga could. I think I mean I don't know if if that's true for you then, because I see like your palate is with the tongue and so I don't know what you're talking about. Excuse me. If anyone's pellets, mate, you're one goes through three cultures Australia, New Zealand, inside more. But I mean, I wasn't the one to be spiteful, I was the one to still want to be with all the tongue in this white still. So I would try and learn as much and I'll try and share my perspective, right? Of why the different struggles that I go with, you know. And there's always they always come with the same thing, it's like, my shit, you haven't worked a hard day in your life, or you don't know what poverty is, right? Or whatever. And uh, I'm just like, well, I'm sorry I was blessed with opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

I'm sorry I had bread and butter.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

I'm sorry I didn't have I had my 72 hour pack all the time. But those were some of the things, and so a lot of my friends were kind of spiteful towards the real ones because and they separate even in high school, it's always the poly polys, the fobs we call them, we're calling the fobs, and then they separate you know what I mean, and then when they come in, they're trying to be fear islander, right? Or when they try to become islander and it's too forced, then it feels weird. I think I was lucky enough that I was accepted, I guess, because I was I'm pretty tonguin', you know. Like uh sure yeah, you look tougher on all my abs and but that's my perspective. What about you? What did you have those kind of prejudiced, unfair views on us? Like, what did you see? Did you see a dis uh you have experienced seeing people separate that way? Or yeah, what's your experience basically?

SPEAKER_00 18:14

I feel like we still see them here in school, like that divisions of you like Fabs and this just plastic. And as you can see, like you can just see people from the islands, they're just hanging on in each other, and you know, plastic. I mean, I would not would not want to say that, but they just want to be polite now. But I feel like it's that it's a division that could be something that divides us is tonguin. And I feel like it's very important for for them to feel that they're tonguin, even though they don't feel their I mean they don't know the language and they we're not raised in the island, but it's really important that to know that they're still tonguin.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah, and I think that's one thing that many not only I think there's not only tonguins, it's also in the Salmon community as well. I think in any any commun Polynesian community, I think that many of our people look at diaspora as like, well, they have all these opportunities and and they don't know the culture, right? And then diaspora looking into the islands like wow, you have all this culture, but yet you want to. And yet you took my trampoline and you took my pool. And you took my skateboard and you know, it's anyway. Next so I think honestly, it's it's one of the the gaps that would need to be bridged between our pollinies and um communities. And I just really think that we need to just come together. I think one thing that would reunit or unite us would be culture, religion, or just the purpose of being together. I think if we focus on that, then nothing else matters, right? It doesn't matter where you're from, doesn't matter if you speak good English or bad English, doesn't matter if you have money or don't have any money. But one thing that I have seen the Tonguans, when you see the Tongan's, they turn up. I I've seen this in the Tonga community. I'm not just you know I've seen Tonga come together. Doesn't matter if you're broke, having to get a loan, or one you know, rich, they come together. I think that's one thing that I've seen the Tongan community is that they come together. So if uh if you're Tongan and you're out there, let me know. Um I'm looking for a tongue'an. I just think that when they when they do come together, they come together. I mean, it doesn't matter what it is. Yeah, and it doesn't matter if it's like uh cousins, dads, fathers, mothers, you know, whatever. They come together, you know, and that and I love that about the commons. Really? Yeah, tumors come together too. Yeah, we do, and they also marry each other that's the Maudis. Well, I think it's important to note. Yeah, yeah, that's a big thing. Diaspora, they want to feel included, and I think, like you say, if we unite under the cultural umbrella and religion, we can do it. Doesn't matter if you're half tonguing, quarter tonguin', eighth tonguin, you are tonguin'. Yeah, big tongue. Silence in the room for that one. But uh I also think you know, if diaspora are coming in, I think they have to be quite humble about it too. I feel like when you come from either side being prideful, that's when we start to be like, oh, staff of me is being filotolahi, and we don't want to do anything for them. Yeah. I think that's the way what about you?

SPEAKER_00 21:45

I feel like we can learn from each other in a way that uh we teach you the culture and it teaches how to learn in uh like English better. Yeah, how to save money and stuff. Right, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Um and maybe maybe.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

is a a closing question uh Lena um why why are you staying as or why do you still believe in in church as your new religion and as well as why do you still uphold values as a religious person as well as a tongue on person uh can you say the question again my friend is like I'm gonna have to edit that out of your afternoon you know what I mean yeah I don't want to edit that much out okay so Lena as a closing question right what do you hope people listening so let's edit that one I don't want to edit too much anyway but in closing we've had so much great thoughts and great discussions from you but I would just want to to share what do you hope people listening to this episode learn about donga and faith what do you want them to remember I feel like uh I hope that they will learn in a way that as Tongain we value both culture and religions it's just that we need to know how to navigate and to balance both and I feel like it's very important because they are both uh shaped our life and how community functions and also it's part of both of them is part of I tended so then as a follow-up how have you personally seen in your life how have you balanced both because I've heard some people say especially outside of Tonga yeah they focus too much on their culture and look at them they're getting into debt or they focus too much on all the fahu system and look at their family.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

They always bicker and they always argue and then there's other people that you know they say we have to uphold the traditions.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

This is who we are like what was your family like when those discussions were being had I feel like the way I see how my family was um when it comes to governor like church responsibility they would give anything. Like they would give a big amount of money and the family can just eat to enough for the whole month or the whole year. But I feel like that's just how much they value um culture and religion when it comes to governha when it comes to Fahu I feel like they just find ways to do their responsibility or to fulfill that responsibility but not off like too much. Like they just tryna I feel like the way family they do navigate and balance it differently to gator for both.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

So it's finding the balance between both rather than just upholding one or the other. And I I believe in that too I think there should be a balance between religion as well as culture. I think we need to embrace both and we shouldn't have to choose which one it is I just know that I've in my experience I've I've tried to navigate only religion and and I've seen then my cultural identity kind of not a you know at loss but I think it's kind of you became Australian and so there's no more sound identity you know um and I think having to navigate both is it's it's a good balance of of how anyone should navigate it just have finding that balance that works for you for your family and just within your belief systems as well so exactly while in closing oh man I love tongue and proverbs this is a tongue and episode even though it's supposed to be by everybody but tongues on top yeah I want to leave you now with one of my favorites which is tongue and tongue is there any food out there it means it is it is rough in texture but it is woven. Yeah talking about these things everyone's gonna have their rough experiences whether it be with culture and balancing it with uh religion or even trying to live one with the other you're going to have rough things in your way but remember when you look back you'll see the masterpiece that is woven which is our lives so thank you for adding a little bit to our book thank you Lena thank you for weaving and weaving your hair but thank you so much let's have some fun baby yes thank you too fun thank you for tuning in please make sure you check it out uh we are on um Apple Podcast Spotify and if you want to find out the full video of this podcast you'll be finding it on YouTube under Third Watch Podcast yeah just the whole thing space in between third watch podcast so apart from the family that is us and we are out