Fitu: Why Are People Leaving Church?

More people than ever are stepping away from church but why?

In this episode, we have an honest conversation about the reasons people are leaving, from church hurt and burnout to unanswered questions, changing values, and the challenges of staying faithful in today's world. We also explore what keeps some people rooted in their faith and how churches can better support the next generation.

This isn't about judging those who stay or those who leave. It's about listening, understanding different perspectives, and having the conversations that many people are afraid to have.

Whether you're active, questioning, returning, or simply curious, this episode is for you.

Join the conversation. What do you think is the biggest reason people are leaving church?

Streaming now and connect with us online @thirdwatchpodcast                                  Apple | Spotify | YouTube | Instagram | TikTok | Facebook

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Man GP, you know this week it's been a bit tough. Why? I just haven't been able to feel you know a bit upbeat. But I really want to feel a bit more of a knock. Oh yeah? Hello.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

And welcome back to the third one's podcast. Yes, yes, yes. Welcome back to another week. Uh back with recording another episode, but we just want to give a quick shout out to everyone who's been following us so far in our journey. Um yeah, in our journey. Uh grateful for the love, the follow, the the share, the everyone's been listening, that's been watching, uh, and for all our social, as well as um Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

So we're on every place. So if you're watching and haven't followed, it's your fault, man. Come on, click us, subscribe, and you're going to have some beautiful content. So thank you to all of our 400,000 uh followers.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

To the 413, you said yes, 13, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

But we're excited. We want to jump right in. We're it's just the two of us today. We have uh Ethan Keys on a break for now. But the one episode did another break. But today we just wanted to have a good conversation and talk about something that's that we see that's happening around the Pacific. And what is it that you see do? The problem is, you know, uh there's uh a range of of age. You know, once you hit 30, it's harder to find a I didn't know there was a problem for you. Yeah, there's a there's a big single adult population. Wow. So you're adding yourself there. But the other thing that we see, right, is uh religion is a big thing in the islands. We already know this. Yes, it is. But we see that a lot of people, especially the current generation, are I feel like getting a little bit burned out, a little bit tired, or or they're you know going away from the principles of the church and coming a little bit more casual.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Yeah, and I think this is not just to any specific church or anything. I think this is throughout religion in itself. And I think a lot of our I don't know, I think this the jet this generation has um kind of stepped away from religion a little bit. Um I think they're still in there because of the family connection that they brought up in that environment, but I think for them, they've uh taken a step back on some of the responsibilities or some of the um or you attending church or activities, that kind of stuff. I think it's becoming more of a not less active, but like more less active rather than being more active as it used to be. So But that's something that I've seen around uh regardless whether it be in Samoa, um Australia, New Zealand, or in Hawaii. I feel like we all go through that point of our lives where we just take a step back and be like, oh, I just need to breathe a little bit. And because of the other pressures of life that we that we go through. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yeah, so so what do you think that is? What are some factors that are maybe pushing the younger generation away from wanting to come to church willingly?

SPEAKER_01 3:26

I think one thing that I could think of is more of how many of the churches are more traditional, right? The way that they would worship, that they would the songs they haven't adjusted over to the modern times the way that the way that they would worship, right? So so I think it's very hard for some of our generation nowadays to adjust to that um traditional way of worshipping. And many churches have adjusted uh by the use of technology. We've we've seen many church coming out with promotions of uh youth activities, um, wives activities, all these kind of ideas that would really help keep the attention of this generation and church. So, and I think that's one of the ways that I've seen one of the reasons why is how traditional men of the church are. So, what about you? What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

It's interesting, but not the doctrine. We want the doctrine to remain the same. Well, that's yeah, just the way they go about things. Yeah, exactly. So you want church to be a party?

SPEAKER_01 4:26

No, I'm not necessarily saying it's a party. Instead of water, he wants wine. Whoa, you wanted to get I'm not necessarily saying um wine and maybe just around the way that um maybe the way that we would go about maybe during classes, we know, instead of instead of having just one way of teaching, you're maybe looking at other alternatives of teaching a lesson or presenting um activities or things like that. I think that's one of the ways that you could help keep some of these people in church uh or s make them still be um active and and still wanting to to attend church.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

So yeah, I would agree in in that respect. And I think it also goes beyond the into your culture. Like I feel it's always a very similar experience with all of us that we are kind of forced to go to church when we grow up. There's no choice. You either get a hiding or you come to church. And I chose to come to church. And then I think once you hit that age of accountability, like you know, you're 18 and your parents will let you have a bit more freedom on your life. Because you've been, you know, so indoctrinated just to go to church because you have to, um you choose not to because you haven't connected with what the religion has to offer to have relationships with, you know, whatever God that you worship, right? And so I think with the younger generation right now, it's like this transition from you know they're having traditional parents and then they uh now the diaspora going out there and church it doesn't feel the same for them. Right. Like I think from my experience, because I am of the diaspora, right? I was born in New Zealand, but I'm Tongan by my good looks.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

No, no. By your looks, not good. Because if we go by the looks of our um tablecloths, yeah, we have the. Oh, yeah, shout out to Neil for uh sponsoring my uh my shoulder here. I don't know who gave it to him, but uh yeah, it's uh shout out to him.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

I told him not to wear it because look, it's all crinkled, you know? Because your body shape is a little bit anyway.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

They can't see the details, so or they can't hear the details either.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

So But I think the big thing is, you know, with an outro to the LDS church, we have language wards. Yeah. And I think that's another hurdle for the younger generation because we speak English, yeah, right? And then we go from, you know, youth into Aldus Quorum, Relief Society, and it's full on in the language. Yeah. You know, and then it's shaped in that discussion where you're not you don't speak until you're spoken to, you know, right in terms of your teaching style. And so when I went there when I was young and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm with these old people, and all they're talking about things that don't relate to me, like marriage, you know, um how to get funds for your family, get out stay out of debt. And that to me wasn't you know my my key focus. And so I think a lot of times that's why people are experiencing another church, the Evercassal church, like it's all deeply rooted in tradition, which a lot of people love, but when it comes to you solely in your own life, it's some there's a bit of separation there.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

I think that's that's from my experience at least.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Yeah, and I think a lot of the churches do have both the the cultural tradition and as well as the religion tradition. Um a lot of people try and well not try, but a lot of people have separated the two or or they have the two going to church, and I think at times it could be confusing which identity you identify with when you come to the church, because yeah, you need both to be able to carry you through different places or different um positionalities where you're at, right? When I'm going to church. Is that a word? Uh it's definitely a word.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Is that your real hair?

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Carry on. Um, but I think that when I get a church, I want to be able to have my own religious identity, right? I want to have my own conversion, conversion story, right? Um, not necessarily converting to my cultural tradition, right? But when I go to other settings, whether it be in my home or village setting or whatever that may be, I want to be able to have my cultural identity, right? So for me, it's being able to sort of have the balance of both. And I think a lot of our our our young people are are having to find a balance between your cultural identity as well as your religious identity as well. So um you know, having growing up in a both, I guess, uh English speaking church and a Tongan speaking church, which one do you prefer more of? Or would you well let me rephrase it better actually? If you were to raise your family, or your own family, wife, kids, and where would you raise your family?

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Very deep. We're going deep today. Uh I don't know if it's part of the podcast. Budget for these questions. I would say I would love to raise them in a in a tongue and ward. Yes, there were definitely uh a few things that I didn't enjoy, but the majority was enjoyable. English wards are just as great as tongued awards, but I think now the tongue and wards are more accommodating for differences. You know, there was a time where they kind of disbanded the YSA uh class, and then we came into the House Qualum Relief Society, um, and then they offered, you know, English classes. So I think I would raise my family there because it gives them a a cultural and religious grounding around people that are going through the same thing. I mean now Tongan wards are in Samoan wards, they're kind of full of these young couples that kind of grew up with the culture but don't necessarily speak the language, right? Um but they've that's all they've known. And so now it's kind of merging into this place where people will be on the same level where they uh understand tradition and respect it, but they still allow change to happen. I feel like the older generation are a bit stubborn, you know, yeah. They're very down the line and they're unbending, which is good in some cases. But I would and I mean most wards all have that kind of English class anyway, if if in the end, you know, the language doesn't seep in as long as the gospel does. That's what I'm happy for. But I love you know the singing, um, the loyalty with everyone, everyone always got each other's back, and we can exhibit and experience the culture in a religious uh aspect, which is nice. What about you? Did you do the same thing? Uh I think for me if you ba lung, yeah, you're gonna buy lungy wall, bro.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Um I don't know I was just thinking. Um I think for me, regardless of whichever one I go to, I don't I actually don't mind one or the other. I don't I don't think I have a preference. I think as long as I my kids understand the the importance of going to church, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Would you force them? And if you did, you know, what age would you finally let them get? You know what?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

I think I'll I think I'll I won't force them. If anything, I would help them gain their own testimony, I'll help them gain their own experiences and make their own decision from there rather than forcing them. I don't wanna be able to s you know get them out of bed every single day for the sake of having go to church. I'd rather have them get up on their own and say, I I see church as an important as an important part of life, and I want to go and attend. And I think that's something that our our gener my I guess my our generation have learned from, um, having been forced out of bed. And I'm not saying that that's bad, I'm just saying that that's what I would want my kids to be able to experience. I would have to educate them and teach them that these the reason why we go to church, why we stay in church, why we attend every week, why do we have to attend these different meetings, why we support these people? And as because of that, I would hope that they would understand and would still uphold those values um when moving on with their own personal life or making personal choices as well. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Yeah, that's very unlike you. What do you mean, unlike me? You're very professional on camera. I'm always professional. You said you're gonna give them a hiding.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Um I don't think that's accurate. What about you? What about you?

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Uh I would I would be the same. I don't want to force them. Uh uh, here we go, club in my hands. Um the the the gospel side of me doesn't want to force them. Right. But the hand the hand of your the cultural side, you know, I think maybe all the way up until maybe I don't know. 21? 10? I'll give out, you know, just tell them to keep coming to church. But after then, I'm not going to say, hey, it's up to you whether you go to church or not. I'll just say, hey, we're going to church.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Um, but when they start wanting to not go to church, that's when I'll allow them, you know, to explore. Does it does that make sense? Yeah. I'm not gonna be like when they're like seven years old, they're like, right, you can sleep in if you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll be at an age where they can kind of understand the consequences of their actions. Right, right. But man, when you were talking, uh if I thought of uh of uh maybe one of the reasons why uh youth are kind of going away from the church. Yeah. And I think you know, it's a lot to do with uh everything that they do outside of the church. Everything they do at home. Yeah. Like I don't know, uh from my experience, you know, there's a lot of families that do the most and people feel burnt out. You know, parents that tell their kids, hey, you have to go and you know, go and minister, we have to put you in all these service projects to so that they hopefully get spiritual experiences. And though the intention is right, the result is is different to what they expect. Right. And then I also see the opposite end where you know parents are just doing the most on Sunday, and then the rest of the week is just average. Yeah. And so the kids are like, oh, then church doesn't really change your life much, right? Right. And that's when they think, oh, well, as long as we serve God and and we want to come to church, that's all that matters. Right. What is your thoughts on that? Did you have experiences like that and maybe see why it's like this?

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Yeah, and I and I think this is something that I've experienced on the mission, being uh serving on the mission. I've always wondered why do our Polynesian people don't give much effort. Like, for example, right, out on the street or driving by at a shopping center, wherever we're at, maybe always give us money. Hey, here's uh $100. Wow. Here's uh exploring the church. Hold on, hold on. They give it out of love, okay? Um, but I don't I would always like, man, I just wish they were able to come with us and to help, you know, go and do the same thing we're doing, bearing testimony of what they've been blessed with.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Instead of just giving money.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Instead of just giving money, I'd rather I'd rather them do that. And that's something that I've I've I've always trying to like figure out why do we always do that. I think for us, we see the importance of serving, we see the importance of why we need to love others. Um, I think the the point that it needs to change or uh a way that we need to change is in how do we do it. We know the why we do it, we know uh why is it important, but we need to know how to do it. Yeah, and a lot of our people struggle on how to do it. It's because we don't see our own people do you know, we do they do the same thing. Yeah, yeah. So for me, right, it's it's that comparison between us, you know. If I see you do this, I'd be like, oh boy, if he's not doing it and he's Polynesian, then I won't do anything. Yeah. So I think for us, it's it's stepping out of that, um, out of that generational cycle of the same thing over and over and over again, and being able to be the first one of your family, first one in your community, first one out of church that'll be able to step into these spaces. And I also think that stepping into these spaces is why a lot of people would struggle to do that, is because of the judgmental that would come from our own people as well, right? Man, I'd be like, you know, you'll be up there and be successful in the way that we do things, but there's always someone that would would always pull us down. Yeah, and I'm just waiting for those people out there to pull us down from this. Um, I'm just waiting for that one bad comment now, but you know, it's something that we need to be aware of. And because of that, a lot of our people do have those self-conscious, self-esteem.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Um, and they think of themselves like, man, if I'm I mean, if I don't see my people out there or up there, then I'm not gonna put myself in there because I won't be, I don't want to be the first one to be able to take all the the criticism or the the judgmental from my own people, and that's something that we lack on, and something that we need to work on as Polynesian people. So you need to work on that, you need to work on that. We all need to work on that. So um, but that's it. I I definitely have, and that's been on my gist for a long time. Pen the camera to you, pen the camera. No, no, no, no, no. I I just want you to to really support each other, and regardless of what we do. We know the why, we're really good at the why, but what we need to work on is how do we do it. And if we understand how do we do it, then nothing else matters. Wow because we know the why and the how.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

So cut the camera to me. Oh, to you, sorry, here we go. You can stand out, and that is the time we have a bit. You can stand out and still be humble, okay? You can be amazing and still feel loved. I mean, look at me. I stand out, he's being loved. But I I feel you need this. Yeah, you can be the man, you can post cringe stuff that you know elevates your journey online, social media, be amazing. Share your talents. It doesn't matter what they think, as long as you uh have righteous desires to share what you love to the world, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

But yeah, that's what I just think that our people need to be supported, and how do we do it?

SPEAKER_00 18:59

So wow, I love those words. Yeah, I was just thinking about it, like like you say, what people see is what they do. That's a very Polynesian mindset because we're so family-oriented, what you see your family members do, you're gonna do. Yeah, muggy see muggy do. Yes. Wow, you're calling someone's monkeys? Very bold of you, yeah. We just lost three followers. Um, but I I must say, in regards to these thoughts, like, you know, I see families where they might not do the simple things, whether it be praying together or reading the scriptures or you know, being willing to serve, whether, you know, they just do food or whatever. But it's those things that we remember. Like I remember when I was younger, we always fed the missionaries. And it's something that I am always inclined to do. You know, my mum would always say, whenever someone's getting baptized, even if you don't know them, go to it. Yeah. And that's what sticks with me. And so I feel like if the same things aren't happening with this younger generation and they have a lot more social media, you know, uh mixing what they think is right and wrong, that's where they're gonna lead towards. Yeah, and I think we need to be safe. I think parents need to be very aware of what's influencing their kids, um, youth wise, you know, because I'm going to be a dad next year. Sorry, Maria, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Who's Maria? But as you were talking, I think one thing that came to uh came to mind was about like the sources that we get our information from. Yeah. Right. Um although with social media and all the you know technology advancement that we've we now have, I think it's always important to, as parents and as I think we do, it doesn't matter if you're a parent or not. I think we each owe each other that responsibility of being able to sort of um correct each other uh with the information that we do get. And don't correct it in a way that would, you know, uh undermine or undermine them. I think that we need to be each other's sources in the way that we um check fact-checked our information, right? We we we especially with the culture, like for in Samoa, right? In Samoa, there's a saying that what is the saying? If that's the correct correct me if I'm wrong. Anyways, cancel your same one passport, brother. It just talks about like how um how Samoa culture is so um so interwoven in a way that it's not one way of doing it, it's so different. And I would like to bring that concept back into the way that we correct, the way that we we fact check each other. I think that's something that we need to we're looking out for. There's not one way of doing it, but when we do correct someone, we are to correct it with. With the way that we encourage each other to to still be doing what we need to do. Um to be inspiring and to help others around us, motivate others around us. So similar to your la langa um quote. Who how do you say your tongue-on quote?

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Yes. It is rough in texture, but it is woven. Yeah. It doesn't really relate, but Oh, it doesn't relate? Yeah. Okay. But you know, now that we've uh talked about this, you know, how uh culture and religion are impacted by, you know, these feelings of being less active or being burnt out. Let's do it. So right now, my friend and I, we are both, we both hold callings, right? Which uh responsibilities within the church that are unpaid, yes, where we look after people, right? So my man here, you know, once you hit 30, you get these upgraded uh callings. He's the second counselor in the bishop. No, I'm right, and so the bishop, he's the one that looks after a ward or an or a section of an area, and he's the second counselor to him. So he's one of the top dogs. No, I'm not. And I'm just a server. You can't really see it from his image. And I'm the Sunday school president, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:14

I look after Sunday school president, so every anything that it does with teaching within the ward, he will look after the teaching, the teachers, the um ensuring that our teachers are well equipped in skills and um essentially just really like a prince, a school principal, really. Um, not only looking after the teachers, but as well as the members in the congregation. So, but yeah, so yeah. What was your question?

SPEAKER_00 23:39

So, you know, we're talking about burnout, right? And a lot of people experience, you know, feeling a bit fatigued when they have a lot of callings. Yes. Yeah. So because of that, what do you is the calling that you always try and avoid? What is a calling that I will that I always try and avoid? Oh, out of all the callings, it's the one you're like, man, I wish I don't get that one. Obviously, you'll say yes to anything, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Yes, I'll definitely say yes to any calling and it's an opportunity for me to serve. I think one calling that I'll listen, state president Bishop, call him to this calling. Yeah. I think one calling that I'll probably don't want to go into um is any calling in out of scoring. Why? Um, I just I don't know. I I just think that I thrive in other areas. Um I love to be a teacher. I mean, I don't mind teaching in out of squorum. I don't think anything in out of scrum presidency. Presidency.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Wow. Yeah. Well, but you know my one? Yeah. Seminary teacher. Really? I I love teaching, but at 6 a.m. in the morning from Monday to Friday is crazy. So I brought it. Seminary teacher. I brought all the seminary teachers. Both my sisters became seminary teachers after their mission. So I was scared to become a seminary teacher. Yeah. But it's funny, it's like I feel like the Lord gives you the callings that you complain about the most. Yeah. So Alice Corinth Presidency, welcome to Great Program.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Um that's the only fun question I had. We didn't really prepare for that fun questions. Um, but I think one fun question that I do have is um, why aren't you following us? Why aren't you subscribing to us? Why aren't you sending us, you know, that love? That's my fun question for you.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Exactly. Because I mean we just wear black shirts every time we need to upgrade our, you know, our closet. We need some money. So please. Hey, hey, hey.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

But yeah, we just want to bring this to the end. Uh, we're grateful that you're able to tune in with us. Hopefully, you've been able to be inspired from something that we spoke about today. This is definitely um something that um we we just think that it's important to us. And if you're struggling, uh regardless of your faith, uh, if you're struggling about church, um, I'd really encourage that you go back to the why, why church is important. Um, the how would always come later, but uh the hows is also important. So, but focusing on the why, how why why isn't church important? Why do we why people still see religion as an important part of life. So, and it's been an important part of our lives for a very, very long time. And I just wish that um that you take on your own journey, and it takes time, takes time wherever you are, uh, whether it'll be uh different religion, uh, it takes time for you to be able to find that why. And I just know that once you find that why, I just know that I I've been blessed in many ways, and I just hope that blessing and wish that blessing upon you uh when you find that why.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

So yeah, I I echo the words of uh the great pearl over here that be patient with yourself. If you're out there and you're feeling burnt out, or if you feel like religion isn't for you, step back to the roots, go back to the simple things, pray, read the scriptures, smile, have fun, and serve. You'll find the elements of religion are everywhere, even outside of religion. In the workplace, at school, you have chances to become a good person. That's what religion is trying to shape you towards. Remember, be like us, have some fun, have some laughs, and make sure that you're always with some a group of people that support you. Yes. I think a lot of times peer pressure is the reasons why we kind of go astray, but man, surround yourselves with people that you want to be like.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Yes. But yeah, follow us, follow us, family. Uh, we're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. Let us know, family. If you have any questions, let us know as well. But thank you for being here. See you the next one. La la la la la.