You're In The Army Now

Before the empire… there was discipline, defiance, and escalating violence.

In Episode 3 of The Krays Web, we follow Ronnie and Reggie Kray through their teenage years — where boxing, crime, and chaos began to collide.

From early tragedy to growing brutality, this episode explores how the twins sharpened both their fighting skills and their criminal instincts.

In this episode:
• Reggie’s “saddest memory” — a childhood accident with lasting impact
• The twins’ early money-making schemes and street-level crime
• Their rise in amateur and early professional boxing
• Escalating violence, weapons, and first encounters with the law
• National Service with the Royal Fusiliers — and total rebellion
• Prison time, including incarceration at the Tower of London

Why it matters:
This is where the turning point begins — discipline meets defiance, and the skills learned in boxing and the army begin to shape the Krays’ future criminal empire.

Follow the show for more deep-dive episodes into the truth behind the Kray twins.

Next episode: 

Next episode: How the Krays built power, influence, and fear in London’s East End – The Colonel

Links to Resources

Check out my website for resources used and social media links : thekraysweb.com

Contact me : wendyceepods@gmail.com

Music by Captain Fat Hands captainfathands.com

Transcript

Wendy Cee 0:23

Welcome to the Krays Web, a podcast about the infamous Kray twins and those associated with them. I'm your host, Wendy Cee, and this is season one, The Krays. This is episode three, You're in the Army now. Please note that there is some swearing in this podcast and descriptions of violence. I will be adding specific trigger warnings where needed. The voices that you hear throughout the podcast are all my family and friends who have rallied round to help me to make the podcast more enjoyable for you to listen to. I've used lots of sources when writing these episodes, far too many to list here, but details of which you will be able to find on my website, thecrazeweb.com. Growing up during the Second World War was a challenging time for many. Whilst the twins were too young to really understand what was going on, they would have lost friends, neighbours, and relatives during this time, and their own father was on the run. But there was an event that happened to Reggie when he was around eight years old that affected him far more than any of that. And in his book Born Fighter, it is in fact the memory he ends his book with, saying Sometimes in the dark hours, I'll mull over my saddest memory of all.

Reggie Kray 1:41

The day I was an innocent party to the tragic death of a little boy neighbour when I was just eight years of age. This experience beched deeply into my mind, and even today I feel a great sorrow when I think of it.

Wendy Cee 1:54

He goes on to describe the event which affected him so deeply. Reggie and his mate Alf Miller were in Cheshire Street, which was just off Valance Road. They had befriended the driver of the Wonderloaf bread van and would earn a few pennies each week for helping him load up and start the van for him. On that particular day, Reggie and Alfie were more mischievous than normal and decided to go for a little ride. So Alf turned on the ignition and put the gears in forward, or that is what Alf meant to do. In fact, Alf put the gears in reverse, and the van shot backwards straight into an air raid shelter behind them. There was a loud bang followed by screams. The boys leapt from the van and rushed around the back where they saw a sight that would never leave Reggie's mind.

Reggie Kray 2:44

The sight of a little boy with his head smashed in. He was crushed between the van and the air raid shelter. There was blood everywhere. Alf and I ran off in terror.

Wendy Cee 2:56

Later in the day, the driver spoke to the boys and convinced them not to say anything about the incident if asked, and not to mention that he paid them to start the van for him. He was protecting himself, his job and his pension. The boys did as they were told when they were called to the inquest at the town hall to give evidence. It was ruled an accidental death.

Reggie Kray 3:17

All these years later, I still despised the driver who put himself on his retirement pension before everything else. Ironically, the little boy who died was also twin to a little sister. This was the final killing detail.

Wendy Cee 3:40

The boys were resourceful from a very early age and were keen to make money and learn as much as they could. At the age of ten, their uncle Joe would collect them on his way to Billingsgate Fish Market in his cart, pulled by horses. They would sit in the cart in their oldest clothes, amongst fish boxes, mackerel scales and flies. On arrival they would watch the market porters donned in their white coats with huge leather hats, carrying as many boxes of fish as they could around the market in barrows and on top of their hats. Once the cart was unloaded, the boys would join their uncle in the cafe with the other workmen to enjoy a cheese rolling and a steaming cup of tea. Ronnie and Reggie loved their adventures with Uncle Joe. The twins would also go out with Harry and George Hopwood on their cart buying rags. You'll hear more about Harry later on in this season. Their pony and cart would pull up outside 178 Valance Road to collect Ronnie and Reggie. George would drive, and Harry and the twins would sit in the cozy, canvas covered cart. Once they arrived at their destination, they would all shout old rags, and the street would fill with children with bundles of old clothes, who would exchange them for balloons, toys, and goldfish, yes, real goldfish, that were kept in an old bath by the Hopwoods. They would end their shifts in the local cafe with hot breakfasts of bacon, eggs, chips, bread and butter, accompanied by a cup of tea. At around the same age, Ronnie and Reggie would hire a pony and cart from a local stable, buy sacks full of tar blocks that were being dug up from the road, before moving a few streets away and selling them to people for fuel for their fires, making a few shillings in the process. And by the age of twelve, they were helping their granddad Jimmy Kray on Sundays at Brick Lane Market to sell old clothes that he had collected during the week. But as they got older, they became a lot more picky.

Reggie Kray 5:33

Reggie says, We'll admit that most jobs we had as teenagers after we left school did not appeal to us. After about ten minutes of looking around a place of work, like a factory, we would pick up our coats and wander off back to the Red Calf Mile End, which was run by a Jewish fellow named Jack Levy. We would sit there drinking tea all day and smoking.

Wendy Cee 5:54

The twins did manage a job for a whole six months when they were around 15, back at Billingsgate Market. Reggie was training to be a salesman, while Ronnie would collect the empty boxes. Carrying boxes around on his head gave Ronnie a strong neck, which was brilliant for the young boxer. Boxing clubs thrived in post-war Britain, giving children, mainly boys, a community, discipline, focus, and purpose. The clubs sprang up all over the place from local pubs to the YMCA, and with relatively low startup costs and equipment needed, even those from the poorer areas could afford to go. These clubs also provided an economic and social benefit to the local area, as they gave the youth somewhere to congregate, which kept them out of trouble and helped to reduce crime in the area. Ronnie, Reggie, and their older brother Charlie all became boxers from a very young age. Ronnie and Reggie were just ten years old when Charlie decided it was time to teach them everything he knew. They were young, reckless, and full of energy, and boxing gave them a focus. Reggie remembers the first boxing match that him and Ronnie watched at the local travelling fairground that came to Bethnal Green. In amongst the roller coasters, Dodgams and Freak Show, away from the flashing lights and loud music, there was a marquee next to a stage, and above the stage there was a large sign with the words Alf Stewart Boxing Booth. On the stage there stood four men in dressing gowns, boxing boots, and boxing gloves. And there was the compare, Alf Stewart, offering a pound to anyone that could last three rounds in the ring with any of them.

Reggie Kray 7:41

Reggie says, He named the fighters as Buster Osborne from Bethnal Green, his brother Steve Osborne, Les Aycox, and a character by the name of Slasher Warner. Buster Osborne had a broken nose, as did Warner and Ayac, had a broken nose and cauliflower ears. All looked as though they could take care of themselves.

Wendy Cee 8:05

Forget the rides, this is where Ronnie and Reggie wanted to be, and they queued up with the rest of the crowd to be allowed inside the marquee. Reggie says that the most exciting fighter of the night was Slasher Warner, who wore black and was ripped. Watching him fight exhilarated the twins and left them both red faced with excitement. And then, Alf Stewart asked if anyone wanted to earn a few shillings by getting in the ring for a fright during the break. Ronnie and Reggie volunteered immediately.

Reggie Kray 8:35

Ron and I jumped at this offer climbing into the white square ring with the arc light blaring on it and said we would fight each other. We stripped to the waist, and pairs of battered torn gloves were laced onto our hands. We fought three furious rounds. Ron had a busted nose, it was bleeding, and I had a bruised cheekbone. We were sweating with excitement.

Wendy Cee 9:04

And that was the beginning of Ronnie and Reggie's amateur boxing career. From that day on, they attended the Robert Browning Boxing Club, where they were trained by Charlie Simms and got to train with, spar with, and fight a huge variety of boxers. They then joined other clubs, attended events, met celebrity boxers, and would throw all their time and energy into improving their techniques. They even turned a room upstairs at their house in Valance Road into a gym.

Reggie Kray 9:32

Many of our friends would come round, all the boxing kids from the neighbourhood, and we used to knock the life out of one another. We would get up at six in the morning to go running or walking, keeping fit.

Wendy Cee 9:44

Between them the twins competed in and won many competitions and were regularly featured in the local newspapers. By the age of 17 they turned professional. They were lightweights, weighing just nine stone nine pounds, a weight that I could only dream of achieving. The newspapers loved Ronnie and Reggie, identical twins who were both now professional boxers. They both won their debut fights, which were both on the same night at the same venue, Myland Arena in London.

Reggie Kray 10:16

I had seven professional fights over the next year or so. Before we were called up for the army, I won them all. Ron had seven, he won four and lost three. Our last fights were in the Royal Albert Hall.

Wendy Cee 10:36

But despite their passion for boxing, the benefits of keeping crime down seemed lost on Ronnie and Reggie Kray, and by the age of sixteen they had their own gang and had earned a reputation in the East End that got them banned from many of the cinema and dance halls in the area. They never went out without a blade and had an arsenal of weapons under their bed at Valance Road. Everything from machetes to knives to swords and even their first gun. This arsenal was to grow substantially over the next few years. But guns were an issue. If the police raided the house, at this time there was nothing they could do about the other weapons, but guns would get them arrested. So they would find creative ways to hide them. Sometimes they would be passed to friendly neighbours hidden in bags of shopping. Other times small guns, like revolvers, would be hidden inside a loaf of bread and put back in the bread bin. The twins were resourceful, and remember, they were just sixteen at this time. And they were just sixteen when they had their first brush with the law, being charged with GBH following a teenage gang fight where bike chains and koshers were used as weapons. After finding themselves in the old Bailey for the trial, they were finally acquitted after their friendly reverend was a character witness for them. According to Ronnie.

Ronnie Kray 11:55

At the end of the trial, the judge said to us, Don't go around thinking you were the Sabini brothers.

Wendy Cee 12:01

The Sabinis were well known gangsters at the time. Ronnie also says that this wasn't actually Reggie's first brush with the law. He says that they went for a picnic with some friends in Chingford, Essex when they were twelve, and Reggie fired a slug gun on the train on the way there, which resulted in him being locked in the train carriage, arrested and attending court where he got off with a warning. But of course, whether they were twelve or sixteen, that was not the end of the trouble that they would get themselves in. In fact, that was just the very beginning of a long line of runnings with the police. Their second running was when they assaulted a police officer and ended up on probation.

Ronnie Kray 12:41

Ronnie says, I was standing outside a cafe in the Bethnel Green Road. The policeman told us to move along, and he gave me a shove in the back. I hit him. We ran off, but the police came looking for us. When they tried to arrest me, Reggie became involved as well. We both got charged with assault. We were lucky. The Reverend Heatherington spoke up for us again and we got probation.

Wendy Cee 13:04

Ronnie and Reggie's boxing careers ended when they were conscripted into the army. As we know, both of their grandfathers had served, while their father Charlie Sr. had deserted and gone into hiding. And we also know that the twins didn't like authority in being told what to do. So their army career went, well, about as well as you are imagining. Unlike their brother Charlie, who was by now in the Navy.

Ronnie Kray 13:27

Ronnie says I think we could have gone all the way as boxers, but then they called us up for the army. We were ordered to report to the Tower of London to join the Royal Fusiliers. William wanted to go in the army, but we hoped they would let us be PTIs, physical training instructors. They didn't, of course. The next two years were a waste of time.

Wendy Cee 13:47

They arrived at the Tower of London on the twentieth of March 1952 to start their two years' service, dressed smartly in their dark suits, and on day one they decided that this wasn't for them. Whilst this account is not in any of their books, it has been told in multiple other books, including Craology and the Profession of Violence. Along with their fellow conscripts they were gathered to be given their instructions, including rules about maintenance of their kit and expectations regarding behaviour. But Ronnie and Reggie didn't like to be told what to do, so they started to walk off. And where might you be going? the corporal said to them, bemused as he had not dealt with a situation like this before. The twins paused, expressionless, except for each raising an eyebrow slightly. I said, Where do you think you're off to, you lovely pair? The corporal repeated. One of the twins then spoke, their tone quiet and firm. We don't care for it here. We're off home to see our mum. At this the corporal reached out to grab one of the twins, but was knocked to the ground where he fell, holding his jaw in pain. The twins walked down the stairs, across the square, and out of the tower before taking the bus home. After having tea with their mother, they spent the evening at the Tottenham Royal, a nearby dance club. The next morning the military police arrived at Valance Road. The twins were expecting them. They made no attempt to resist arrest. They got dressed, told their mother not to worry they would be back soon, got into the police car that was sat outside the house. They were given just one week's detention in the guard room. As being identical, nobody could actually identify who committed the crime. This was not the first or the last time that they would use this trick to get themselves out of a sticky situation. After a week sleeping on a cold, hard floor and eating extremely bland food, they were back with the other recruits, and for two years they gave the army the runaround. It's the poor guards you have to feel sorry for who were terrorised by Ronnie and Reggie when they were there. Reggie gives some examples.

Reggie Kray 16:01

Once during my time at the tower, I was in my parrot room when I decided that they might throw me out of the army a bit quicker if I made out to hang myself and got them to think I was some kind of nutcase.

Wendy Cee 16:13

That failed as despite setting up a noose, a suicide letter, and sending off a young recruit to get help, when the young recruit returned with a sergeant, they just asked Reggie a few questions, gave him a couple of aspirin and said, You'll be okay, son. They were probably sick of the twins antics. Another time he tried to scare the corporal on duty by pretending he could hear ghosts, scaring the man half to death. Then he decided that if he feigned migraines he would probably not be fit for service and would be discharged. After spending a week getting as little sleep as possible and smoking loads of cigarettes so that he looked ill when he saw the doctor, Reggie was quickly dismissed, and despite repeated attempts was told he was still fit enough to serve. So when they'd exhausted all attempts to get thrown out, they only had one option left they would escape. Their first escape was with a recruit called Dickie Morgan. He took them to his parents' house in Clinton Road Mile End. It was very different to their home in Valence Road, where their mother Violet had sheltered them a lot. Dickie's father was a sailor who had just been sentenced for his part in a warehouse raid. Dickie's brother Chunky was in Parkhurst jail, and one of the younger brothers was in Borstall. And there, in the centre of all the chaos was Dickie's mother, straight, blonde hair, bespectacled, standing in the kitchen with a bless this house sign above her head. It was that night that the twins' clean living stopped. In order to avoid getting caught and return to the tower, they would be out most of the night and napping during the day. They drank, they smoked, and they started stealing from wholesalers to earn money. They visited the royal a few more times, got into a number of fights, tried to steal some lorries, and even took a weekend trip to South End with Dickie and another man, from where they sent the commanding officer at the Tower of London a postcard saying, Wish you were here, Ron and Reg Kray. The commanding officer saw the funny side, or maybe he was just exasperated with the twins' behaviour. Either way, he pinned the postcard to his office wall. A few short weeks later, Ronnie and Reggie were bored of the petty thieving and being on the run, and when they saw a young policeman in a cafe, they happily handed themselves in and went to the tower to face their punishment.

Reggie Kray 18:30

Reggie says Some of my favourite memories on those days, Ron and I spent on the run from the army. One of our favourite haunts was at Wally's Calf, beside bus station in Acney.

Wendy Cee 18:41

They thought they were cleverer than everyone else, and if they didn't get their own way, they would run away. At this time, Charlie Sr. was still on the run, but that didn't stop him popping on a disguise and going to visit the twins at the tower. So blasé and so arrogant to think he could get away with it, but he did. He managed to get in and out unrecognised, and when Ronnie and Reggie escaped, they used that same arrogance. Their army career, if we can even call it that, was a game of cat and mouse. Ronnie describes a couple more incidents of them absconding.

Ronnie Kray 19:15

The police arrested us and put us on an identification parade. They said they suspected us of attacking a man with a truncheon and stabbing him with a knife. We were not picked out on the parade, so the police handed us back to the army.

Wendy Cee 19:28

Another time they were sat in a cafe in Marelend Road when a policeman walked in and began to get aggressive with them. Ronnie hit the policeman and then Reggie joined in too. They were arrested, charged, and sent to jail for a month in Wormwood Scrubs. From there they were transferred by train, handcuffed to military police, to the army barracks in Canterbury, Kent to be court-martialed. As soon as they arrived at the barracks, Ronnie and Reggie overpowered eleven military police and they were off again. This time there were no trips to the seaside. It was just a short twenty four hours before they were captured and sent to Shepton Mallet prison. Here are just some of the antics they got up to when they were recaptured to try and get thrown out of the army. They smashed up and burnt out a guard house. Reggie stole the naffy keys and threw them down a drain so the officers couldn't get into the officer's mess. They cut the parade flag up and flushed it down the toilet. They sabotaged a sunrise bugle call by hiding the bugle. Reggie punched a serving soldier in the face who had bad mouthed him. Reggie handcuffed a guard to his cell with the guard's own handcuffs. And when they were out on the run they had some fun too. Reggie shares some memories.

Reggie Kray 20:40

He would regularly steal a single deck of red bus from the station next to Wannie's cat, take us all for a ride through the streets at the East End, drop him Ron and me off at Valence Road. There would always be someone to play bus conductor to.

Wendy Cee 20:53

They would often stay at Billy's mother's house as well as Valance Road when they were on the run. At Billy's there would often be big family parties including sing songs, with one family member on the accordion while the others sang along, and the twins were always welcomed. Of course, they were always recaptured and returned to the Tower of London, where they would be locked in the guard house or other jails. Reggie thought that being locked up in the Tower of London was actually quite impressive, kind of in a hall of fame with royalty. And in fact, they did become Hall of Famers themselves, as Ronnie and Reggie Kray are the last people to be imprisoned in the Tower of London.

Reggie Kray 21:29

Ron and I were imprisoned in a guardhouse which was situated in one of the towers at the Tower of London. We were quite proud to join the likes of Anne Boleyn and the others who'd been imprisoned there centuries before.

Wendy Cee 21:41

This relentless game lasted for just over two years until they were finally released, after spending nine months in Shepton Mallet prison following a court martial. The army was done with the Kray twins, and the twins were done with the army. It's likely that the two years that Ronnie and Reggie spent in the army did, however, teach them some very valuable. Valuable skills that allowed them to be successful later on. Leadership, weaponry, organisation skills, keeping up morale, how tough they really were and how much they could take, how vulnerable a large organization could be, and how to make officials look ridiculous.

Ronnie Kray 22:17

Ronnie says Finally, when we were twenty, they let us out of the army. We had no money and no jobs. Because of our records, we have no real chance now of making it in boxing. But we still have the packs we had made when we were young. If we couldn't make it as fighters, then we'd make it as villains.

Wendy Cee 22:35

And boy, did they live up to that pact.

Reggie Kray 22:38

Looking back at his life, Reggie says We did everything in our power to get chucked out of the army. Looking back, I feel that national service could have been a good way of life.

Wendy Cee 22:55

In the book The Profession of Violence, John Pearson states The ending of national service is often seen as a factor in the rise of lawlessness among the young. Perhaps. But for the Kray twins, it is undeniable that without the two years they were now to spend in contact with the Army, they would never have been able to take over the East End with the speed and ruthlessness they showed when they finally released in the spring of 1954. Thank you for listening to the Kray's Web. This was episode three, You're in the Army Now. Next week in episode four, The Colonel, I will be discussing the Kray's Rise to Power. Finally, I just want to take a moment to thank everyone who has helped me to put this podcast together. Please check out my show notes and my website for more information on the books and reference material that I used for my research. Until next time, stay safe.