Trials & Tribulations

After years of silence… the truth finally comes out.

In Episode 14 of The Krays Web, we reach the final chapter — where witnesses step forward, the case comes together, and the Kray twins face justice.

From protected informants to courtroom breakthroughs, this episode reveals how one of Britain’s most feared criminal empires was finally dismantled.

In this episode:
• The introduction of witness protection and safe houses
• Key witnesses coming forward — despite fear and intimidation
• The search for evidence in cases with missing bodies
• A failed murder plot targeting investigators
• Breakthrough testimonies that changed everything
• Confessions, recovered weapons, and final charges
• The Old Bailey trial and its outcomes

Why it matters:
This is the conclusion — where fear gives way to truth, and the Kray empire is finally held accountable in a court of law.

Follow the show and listen back to the full season to uncover the complete rise and fall of the Kray twins — from power to prison.

Links to Resources

Check out my website for resources used and social media links : thekraysweb.com

Contact me : wendyceepods@gmail.com

Music by Captain Fat Hands captainfathands.com

Transcript

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Wendy Cee 0:24

Welcome to the Krays Web, a podcast about the infamous Kray twins and those associated with them. I'm your host, Wendy C, and this is season one, The Krays, episode 14, Trials and Tribulations. Please note that there is some swearing in this podcast and descriptions of violence. I'll be adding specific trigger warnings where needed. The voices that you hear throughout the podcast are all my family and friends who have rallied around to help me to make this podcast more enjoyable for you to listen to. I've used lots of sources when writing these episodes, far too many to list here, but details of which you will be able to find on my website, thecrazeweb.com. Nipper and his team had arrested most of the suspects, but their work was a long way from over. They needed to prepare documents for the trial. They needed to ensure protection for witnesses. Nipper.

Speaker 3 1:19

Several members of the firm had, by being out of their ground at the time, avoided the sweep. It was possible they and others might be able to explain to potential witnesses the folly of going ahead and helping the wicked police by giving evidence and so once again sabotage the inquiry.

Wendy Cee 1:38

There was a huge deployment of police involved with protecting the witnesses from providing 24-7 guarding to moving them to safe houses in the home counties. Mrs. X, Frances, the barmaid, who was serving at the time of the killing of George Cornell, says this in her book, Calling Time on the Krays.

Barbara Windsor 1:56

The routine was to have two officers on for 24 hours, then another two with replacements when the main four went on their rest days and holidays. At first I didn't have a lot of confidence in the idea of having policemen guarding me. Thirty years later, people would say that was sexist. But it was my life and I was worried. The main priority was knowing the kids would be alright. Being so young, they didn't really know what was going on. So I had to be sure that there were people there that the kids would be happy with. There were still a few weeks of full term to go, and the police were with me when I went to the school and collected and delivered them. The headmaster had been told what was going on, and so we didn't let them out if we were a bit late in fetching them, but it didn't last long. By the end of the month, we were gone. Down to Essex.

Wendy Cee 2:46

Frances and her children were moved to Essex for their safety. Their London home was a ground floor flat with a balcony at the back, and the police said that it just wasn't feasible to protect the family while they stayed there.

Barbara Windsor 3:02

There wasn't all that much to take, clothes, the kids, toys and the TV. Furniture was left there to make it look like I was still around. And I went on sending the rent. But we were off to Brentwood to a big house with a garden on its own down a lane with a conservatory with spiders. The kids loved it, but the spiders must have been the biggest you would ever find.

Wendy Cee 3:27

And then there was the challenge of keeping the defendants separated, especially from the twins, so that they could not have any influence over the others. This was quite a challenge. As they were being held on remand, the options were limited due to the logistics of them being required to attend court on at least a weekly basis for the foreseeable future. So the twins were sent to Brixton, and the others were sent to Wandsworth. Just as a side note, Brixton is still a prison today, but it has a training restaurant there called the Clink, where you can go for afternoon tea. It's a fascinating experience going through the security and across the yard to the restaurant, and the afternoon tea was excellent, though I'm pretty sure our server Gary's Heart wasn't really in it, though I don't really blame him. Nipper also needed the press on the side so that he could get the headlines out there that suited his narrative, to try and draw out the remaining suspects and more potential witnesses. The witness list was growing. Lenny Books Dunn, the man who ran the porno bookstore, and whose flat Frank the Mad Maximum Mitchell had been taken to when he was helped to escape from Dartmoor, told the police that he knew what had happened to Frank. At this time the police believed that he had been taken overseas to avoid capture. They found it extraordinary that he would have been picked up in Dartmoor, taken to a flat in London, and was then shot just outside that flat in the street. But of course they had to check it out. And that's when Billy Exley, who had previously refused to speak to Nipper, came forward with his mate Limehouse Willie. And it was Billy and Limehouse Willie who were able to corroborate Lenny's story for the police, as Billy had been the one to hire the car to pick up Frank in Dartmoor, and they had both helped to mind Frank while he was holed up in Lenny's flat. Billy had also been able to provide more details about Lisa, who had stayed with Frank during his time in the flat. He had driven her to get clothes from her home during her stay. Nipper. For reference, Frank Cater was one of the detectives working on the case. Also in some books we have the name Lisa, and in others the lady is called Lisa. I'm using Lisa.

Speaker 3 5:36

This led to what was possibly the most brilliant piece of detective work in the case. Frank Cater set out with his fairly flimsy evidence to trace the girl Lisa, and trace her he did. A week later he caught up with her. Cater took Billy Exley for a drive around West London to see if he could recognise the address from which she had collected the clothes. This in itself is fairly standard police procedure. Exley was able to point out the house, and so Cater returned on his own and spoke to the woman occupier. She had been a hostess and recalled Lisa, but nothing much else. Cater did not give up and returned to see if the woman remembered the name of Lisa's doctor. It was not such a strange request. Most sensible girls in the business have regular medical checkups.

Wendy Cee 6:28

The lady couldn't remember the doctor's name but did remember her getting taken ill in the air terminal up the road. Frank followed this lead up, trawling local hospitals, and then his lucky break. He found the doctor that had treated Lisa and got not only her real name, but her parents' address in Leeds. Her mother was able to give Frank Lisa's address in London, but warned him that she was just about to go on a world tour with her boyfriend. When he called at the address, he was too late. She had left a week before. But then another piece of luck. He found out that their camper van had broken down and was in a local workshop for repair. The workshop owner had the van but didn't know where the couple were. But Frank trawled the area, and as luck would have it, he spotted their car in a hotel car park, and his hunt for Lisa ended at 2 AM when she was rudely awoken and told she was being taken to Scotland Yard to talk about Frank the Mad Axeman Mitchell.

Speaker 3 7:24

She confirmed Dunn and Exley's story, supplying more details of her own. As the story went on, I waited with bated breath to hear what she had to say about the evening Mitchell disappeared. She confirmed she had heard shots, and that sometime afterward Albert Donahue had returned and made a telephone call saying that dog is dead. That was the moment she said, when I knew they'd killed Frank Mitchell.

Wendy Cee 7:52

But there was still no physical evidence. Albert Donahue had wiped the flat clean of fingerprints. Frank's clothing and belongings had been removed and destroyed. All they had was the reports of Billy Exley, Lenny Dunn, and Lisa Prescott. But then they asked Lisa if she had any mementos of Frank, and she had. She had kept his comb and a calendar he had given her. The calendar had lots of date circles, but she had no idea why. The belongings were sent to Dartmoor where another prisoner said he had given Frank the calendar not long before he had escaped, and that the dates were when the budgery gar eggs had hatched. But it still wasn't enough. So the police visited Dartmoor prison and went through the visitors book. They were looking for firm members who had visited to help plan the escape, and by doing this they traced a young lady who had visited a couple of times along with two brothers, who later gave evidence at the trial. This was good, but Nipper had the same problem that he had had with the murder of Jack the Hat McVitty. There was no body. But despite this three weeks after their arrest, the twins were charged with the murder of Frank Mitchell. By the end of May, with the remand hearing just around the corner for those out on bail, Nipper was told that someone wanted to talk to him. It was Charlie Mitchell, a name I haven't mentioned before, but someone who had been arrested for his involvement in long firm fraud, Nipper.

Speaker 3 9:23

What he told me was shattering. There had been a contract out on both me and Leslie Payne with a price of fifty thousand pounds for the pair of us. He, Mitchell, a wealthy man, had been the one instructed to find the money, and, so he said, a man had been hired in New York to come over and do the job.

Wendy Cee 9:43

Nipper was able to corroborate this because during a strip search of the cell of one of the defendants, there had been toilet paper found with the words junior and do the business written on it. Nipper had a contact, the head of the FBI in Europe, who immediately made inquiries in the United States, and very shortly afterwards a man named Junior was captured at Shannon Airport on a stopover on the way to London. So the threat was very, very real. And the money offered £50,000 in 1968 would be around £1.2 million today, or £1.5 million. The Crage really wanted rid of Nipper Reed and Leslie Payne, didn't they? And then another came out of the woodwork, Michael Kendrick, a fraudster who was serving five years in Wormwood Scrubs. In order to keep the prisoners safe, Nipper would enter the prison in disguise as a parson and give spiritual comfort in the prison chapel. He would carry a recorder in a box that looked like a Bible unless you looked really closely. Nipper would also leak information back through the prison grapevine that he was speaking to a lot more people than he was, to try and encourage others to come forward. Next to us to speak to him was Cornelius, known as Connie Whitehead. They met on the twenty second of June. The conversation wasn't useful. Connie liked to sit on the fence and it felt like he was just trying to get the layer of the land. The next day it was Tommy Cowley, another scouting exercise. He wanted to be clear that anything anyone said about him was all lies. And then four days later, John Scotch Jack Dixon broke rank, another unproductive meeting. But the good news was that people were getting nervous. The cray's influence was diminishing. People were starting to look out for themselves, and multiple people had now confirmed that Frank the Mad Axeman, Mitchell, was definitely dead. On the twenty eighth of may 1968, around three weeks after the dawn raid, twenty-eight defendants appeared again at Bow Street Court, and it was here that the first murder charges were given. Reggie Kray and Albert Donahue were charged with the murder of Frank Mitchell. Three weeks later on the nineteenth of June, Ronnie Kray, Charlie Kray, and Connie Whitehead were charged with the murder of Frank. The committal proceedings in the case of the murder of Frank Mitchell started on the twenty fifth of June. Earlier the same day, Charles Mitchell and Billy Exley had been discharged on their charges of long firm fraud, and bail had been granted to Dickie Morgan, who will remember ran away from the army with the Krays. Nip had a real logistical challenge getting all the defendants to the court hearings.

Speaker 3 12:38

There was a suggestion that the convoy I had arranged to bring the defendants from prison to the weekly hearing in Bow Street was unfairly prejudicing them. I had to consider the very real possibility that the Krays were so influential that they might arrange for the prison van to be hijacked and so escape. I had arranged for the van to be escorted from the prison by police motorcycle outriders who made sure a path was cleared, allowing the van to get through the traffic at unusually high speeds. It was unorthodox, but cut down the risk of an ambush. Now it is considered commonplace. Once the committal proceedings started, it became a daily spectacle for people waving at the van, shouting out Morning Ronnie, morning Reggie, as they sped past.

Wendy Cee 13:25

Over the next few weeks, witnesses were brought to court to testify, some more flaky than others, and some that the Krays felt were really scraping the barrel. Reggie even commented at one point in the proceedings Is James Bond going to give evidence in this case? And then on the twenty third of July the magistrate, Kenneth Baracloff, delivered his verdict. Quote, I have gone through all the evidence with a fine tooth comb. To me it is so confused and therefore too slim to commit before a jury, end quote. And he discharged the defendants on the charges of conspiracy to murder. Nipper was disappointed but not beaten. He and his team were still collecting evidence. And then came a big break in the case. While in Bow Street Court, Nipper was handed a piece of paper by a lady that read, You must talk to Superintendent Reed. Say you've just been to see Donahue, and he wants to see you as soon as possible, but not at the solicitor's rooms at Brixton Prison, end quote. The lady that handed Nipper Reed that note was Albert Donahue's mother, and she begged Nipper to see Albert as soon as possible, saying it was a matter of life or death. So later that evening, Nipper visited Albert in the hospital annex attached to the prison. Big Albert as he was known in the firm due to his physical size, looked small and petrified in this room. They had got to him, and he had been advised to admit to the murder of Frank Mitchell for the safety of his wife and children. And over the next few days he did just that. He also told Nipper and Frank Hater everything he knew about the murders of George Cornell and Jack McFitty.

Albert Donahue 15:09

Albert said I do not want the Krays or their solicitors to know I have made this statement at this time because I am afraid of the consequences which might result either to myself or my family. I have reason to believe my family are in danger even now or will be very soon. I was not being melodramatic. I was making these statements right there in Brixton prison, knowing the Krays were only a few hundred feet away. And I really did deliver. Until I came forward, the police hadn't heard a whisper about Foreman and his crowd playing any part in Mitchell's fate. Anyway, now I'd made these statements, Reed and Crater were convinced I had to be moved out of Brixton pronto. The next morning it was on. The door opened. Pack your kit, you're going.

Wendy Cee 15:54

Albert's belongings were packed up and he was escorted by a heavy set prison officer carrying a manila folder with the word Wandsworth written on it. Anyone giving messages back to the Krays would pass this on, which is why Albert was actually sent to Chelmsford. He was safe. But what about his family? Well, they were under twenty four hour police guard. Albert's wife knew he was going to tell all. They had discussed it, and she knew what it meant for her, including that she might have to change her name. Remember, this is all happening in july nineteen sixty eight, and some of the firms still hadn't been captured, so Albert was right to be frightened about what might happen. When Albert's family were relocated, Ronnie Bender, who had been there when Jack McVitie was murdered, was spotted watching the furniture being loaded into vans. When the two lorries and two cars left the house, they all went in different directions to throw him off the scent. Chris Lambriani was brought in for questioning in early August, but he gave nothing away during his interview, claiming to have no idea what had happened to Jack McVitie. Nipper had thought Chris would be an easy nut to crack, but he was wrong, so he decided to bring Blonde Carol back in for questioning. The interview started the same as last time. Carol was adamant that she knew nothing and could not help, and then as the interview went on.

Speaker 3 17:40

And when she returned in the early hours of the following day she had been prevented by Ronald Bender, going downstairs because there had been a bit of bother. She spoke of seeing Chris Lambrianu pour a bowl full of blood down the toilet and noticed that Bender was wearing a pair of her son's socks over his hands, and the socks were now bloodstained.

Wendy Cee 18:03

Carol went on to say that when she was finally allowed downstairs her carpet and bedspread were missing. The carpet underlay was soaked in blood and being cut up and burnt. And then over the next few days the flat was completely redecorated for her, including all new furniture and carpets. Nipper had what he needed. He had confirmation of who was there that night and that something very bad had happened at Carroll's. What he needed now was someone to turn Queen's evidence, which means, like Albert, an accomplice becomes a prosecution witness. A couple of weeks after Chris Lambrioni was brought in for questioning, Nipper tracked down Harry Hopwood, another person who had been named as being at Blon Carroll's that night. Harry was an old family friend of the Krays, and you will remember him from episode two, where him and his brother would pick up Ronnie and Reggie when they were children and take them out working on their horse and cart. Harry broke quite easily under questioning once he realized that he was going to be charged with being involved in the murder of Jack McVitty otherwise. Nipper.

Speaker 3 19:13

In the early hours of the morning, the twins had come to his home covered in blood. Nodding at his brother, Ronnie said by way of explanation, He's just killed Jack the Hat. They both bathed and changed into fresh clothes brought from Valence Road. They washed their jewelry and coins and threw away their paper money. Hopwood had phoned Charlie Kray and Tommy Cowley, telling them to come round. Ronnie Hart and Ronnie Bender had also come to his flat with a gun and a knife, and he, Hopwood, had gone with Hart to the local canal and pitched them in. The twins' clothing had been put in a suitcase and given to one of Hopwood's relatives for its disposal.

Wendy Cee 19:54

During the interview, Nipper said that Harry broke down and said that he had been living in fear, and Nipper told him he was now under police protection, and would he like to make a statement? Harry replied, You've saved my life. And this interview led to Nipper talking to Percy Merricks, a relative of Harry's, who initially wouldn't talk, but upon realizing there was enough evidence to charge him with being an accessory, asked for protection.

Charlie Kray 20:18

He said, Will you look after me? What will happen to my wife and children? It's them I'm worried about now, not me. These people are murderers, you know that. I never saw what was in the case. I was drunk at the time, or I would never have done it.

Wendy Cee 20:32

Percy described how he'd been summoned to Harry's flat, where he had seen Ronnie and Reggie Kray, Ronnie Hart, and Ronnie Bender. He'd been handed a suitcase and told to get rid of it. He'd driven to a small holding in East Farley near Maidstone in Kent, where he'd poured two gallons of petrol over the suitcase and set fire to it. The small holding was searched by the police, but they found nothing. They did, however, find the gun in the canal exactly where Harry said he had thrown it in. This was confirmed to be the correct gun after a ballistics expert examined it and noted the defect in the mechanism that would cause the trigger to fail. More and more people were becoming nervous and trying to get on the right side of the investigation to make their position at the trial as strong as possible. Nipper was soon talking to Connie Whitehead again, Tommy Cowley, John Dixon, and a few others.

Speaker 3 21:30

It was John Dixon who broke first and gave a statement saying He had driven Ronnie and Ian Barry to the blind beggar on the night Cornell was shot. On the return journey to the Widow's pub in Tap Street, Ronnie had said, I hope the bastard is dead. Dixon had also given further information about the harbouring of Frank Mitchell, and it was time to consider whether he, too, should become a prosecution witness. Certainly he was no longer safe in the prison system and was given bail with surety.

Wendy Cee 22:00

Nipper's case was building nicely, but there was one key player that he still wanted to speak to. By now it was the end of August 1968, three months since the dawn raids, and some suspects were still on the run. And then on Saturday the thirty first of August, Nipper got the break he needed. Ronnie Hart's brother Terence came to him and said that he'd been paying the Kray's protection money to keep his brother safe while he had been on the run. The money was handed over at a pub near Valance Road and in the lavatories at Charing Cross Station. Terence persuaded Ronnie Hart to speak to Nipper Reed, and three days later Ronnie arrived at Tintagel House. Nipper.

Speaker 3 22:40

He then began to tell me of the horrifying details of McVitie's death. The idea to kill McVitie was nothing more than a whim, he said. Ronnie had been elated when he had killed Cornell and had chided his brother to do one as well. McVitie had therefore been selected as a victim, not because he posed a threat to the Krays, nor because of the botched shooting of Leslie Payne, but simply because he was available.

Wendy Cee 23:07

Ronnie Hart made a formal statement against the Krays, and he and his wife were added to the long list of those who needed 24-7 protection. And the evidence just kept coming in. Two days later Harry Hopwood called Nipper. He had forgotten a crucial detail in his statement.

Speaker 3 23:23

Reggie had cut his hand badly during the incident and he, Hopwood, had bandaged the wound.

Wendy Cee 23:30

On the eleventh of september nineteen sixty eight, Chris Lambrianu was picked up again. With the information that Nipper had learnt from Ronnie Hart, he was able to question Chris about Jack's murder. Chris declined to answer any questions. Tony Lambrianu was then picked up and brought in. He was also questioned about Jack's murder. He denied any knowledge of the event and said that he had in fact seen Jack around Christmas time in the Bulls Pond Road, so he couldn't have been killed. Ronnie Bender was then brought in and faced the same questions. He denied being at the party the night Jack was murdered. All three of them were charged with the murder of Jack the Hat McVitie and transferred to Brixton to join other members of the firm. Next time everyone was in court, there were additional charges against the defendants, and as Nipper Reed studied Reggie, he saw a scar on his left hand between his thumb and his forefinger. Nipper asked Reggie how he got the scar, and Reggie just replied that it was one of many, and Nipper should speak to his solicitor. Nipper and his team had rounded up almost everyone now. There were just two suspects left, Tony Barry, the owner of the Regency Club, who was charged with being an accessory before the fact that he denied any knowledge of the murder. He later tried to turn Queen's evidence, but this was denied. He was to go on trial along with the others. And the final person was Freddie Foreman, a longtime acquaintance of the Krays, who allegedly disposed of the body of Jack McVitie. He of course denied any wrongdoing, saying that the claims Nipper made were ridiculous. Freddie Foreman was charged on the 9th of October 1968. The committal proceedings ended on the 22nd of October 1968. The next few months were a blur of activity for Leonard Nipper Reed and his team. The days were full of more interviews, gathering more evidence, and preparing paperwork for the trial. A trial that would be one of the biggest of the century in England, to be held at number one court at the Old Bailey, the most famous courtroom in the world. The court would be full of defendants, their solicitors, prison guards and police. The courtroom would be full every day to watch the spectacle unfold. I briefly discussed the trial and the sentencing in episode one, the beginning of the end. I'm not going to go through the whole trial. You know the charges, and you know the outcome. But let me just remind you again of the sentencing now that you have all the facts. Ronnie Kray, guilty of the murders of Jack McVitie and George Cornell, minimum sentence thirty years. Reggie Kray, guilty of the murder of Jack McVitie and being an accessory after the fact to the murder of George Cornell, minimum sentence thirty years. Chris Lambrianu guilty of the murder of Jack McVitie fifteen years. Tony Lambrianu guilty of the murder of Jack McVitie fifteen years. Charlie Kray, guilty as an accessory to the murder of Jack McVitie ten years. Freddie Foreman guilty as an accessory to the murder of Jack McVitie ten years. Ian Barry, guilty of the murder of George Cornell, twenty years. Ronnie Bender, guilty of the murder of Jack McVitie 20 years. Anthony Barry, not guilty and discharged. Connie Whitehead, guilty as an accessory to the murder of Jack McVitie, seven years. Ronnie Hart, turned Queen's evidence. Albert Donahue, turned Queen's evidence. John Dixon, turned Queen's evidence. Harry Hopwood, Leslie Payne, Billy Xley, and Limehouse Willie all testified against the craze. Finally, what about the witnesses to the murders? Those who were just innocent bystanders, like Mrs. X, the bardmaid at the Blind Beggar that night.

Barbara Windsor 27:28

She said It was all so pointless. Just a load of unhappiness. George Cornell, well his wife, had only just had a baby. I became an outcast, and I'm still looking over my shoulder. I had my life ruined. The twins went to prison, and so many with them. It all seemed so I don't know.

Wendy Cee 27:51

Later appeals were fruitless. The conviction stood. At the end of the appeals process, Nipper Reed was invited to the appeals judge's personal chambers. As he nervously entered, an arm was placed around his shoulders, and one of the judges said, quote, Now, Mr. Reed, come and have a glass of sherry and tell us if they really were as bad as they seemed. End quote. Thank you for listening to The Krays Web. This was episode 14, Trials and Tribulations. Next week in episode 15, Porridge, I will be discussing the twins' life in prison. Finally, I just want to take a moment to thank everyone who has helped me to put this podcast together. Please check out the show notes and my website for more information on the books and reference material that I used for my research. Until next time, stay safe.