The Forge with Ryan Miller
Step into the world of industrial manufacturing through candid conversations with the leaders shaping it. Hosted by Ryan Miller, CEO of PWI—a leading manufacturer of cranes, mezzanines, and fall protection systems. This podcast explores what it really takes to build and grow a successful business.
Ryan shares his own journey while sitting down with fellow CEOs and team leaders to uncover the stories behind their success—the challenges they faced, the lessons they learned, and the moments that defined them.
The Forge with Ryan Miller
Episode 5 | The Boring Word Behind Real Success with Justin Moyer
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Most businesses chase rapid growth. Justin Moyer took a different path. He spent years learning the electrical trade alongside his father before slowly building Moyer Electric into one of northern Indiana's trusted industrial and commercial electrical contractors.
Today, Moyer Electric employs nearly 50 people, but that's only part of the story. Justin has also grown a commercial cleaning company with more than 60 employees and acquired an RV furniture manufacturer in 2020. In this episode, he shares why steady, intentional growth has shaped every business he's built and the lessons he's learned along the way.
The Forge With Ryan Miller is a podcast created to help develop company cultures that result in strong teams and create lasting business growth. Real conversations with business owners, manufacturers, and leaders about what it actually takes to build something. Hosted by Ryan Miller, CEO of PWI a leading manufacturer of lifting, storage, and safety systems based in Indiana.
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So I had a 37-year-old brother, he was younger than me, passed away in 2020 in a motorcycle accident.
SPEAKER_02Oh man.
SPEAKER_03And he worked for me. He's on a job site in Syracuse and went home, got on his motorcycle, and headed back out and and was killed. And he was, you know, involved in our business and everything. And so that's it's really caused me. I I constantly live in this tension of living the here and now and enjoying life. It's not been a microwave, it's been a crock. Yeah. And uh and so I've been 25 years into it in electrical trade, and we're still figuring it out. I believe God put me on this earth for a purpose and and he gave me an opportunity in business. I don't hire based on I got this need right now. I would rather take the person that has good character and I can teach them electrical work.
SPEAKER_01My life botto is uh true success is when the people closest to you love and respect you the most. Consistency. It's a really boring word, man. It's a very boring word, and and guys like me struggle with that word. But it's absolutely a prerequisite to success. Back in the forge with Ryan Miller here. I'm really excited to introduce uh a kind of a new friend of mine, uh Justin Moyer here with us today, and a very special guest that I've been watching, you know, a little bit from afar, Justin, for some time. And uh and uh we worked together on job sites many, many times here in our community. And uh, but I don't know why it took us. I think we we met in Oklahoma City above all places last fall. And uh I think we've emailed back and forth a number of times, but never actually met and talked until last fall. So that's um so just yes, I'm honored to to um to have you here this morning. And we were at a David Green event, which was at a Hobby Lobby, um, um where David Green and Bill Hyde talk about uh Hobby Lobby story and and um and where they talk about um you know kingdom-minded businesses and and the fact that this is all bigger than what we're doing, right? Every single day. And so uh I assume um and I don't really know this, but I assume our our faiths are aligned in in many ways, just seeing you at that point. I assume so too. Yeah, yeah. I know I I could I can just hanging out with you this morning for a little bit, I can tell you're a man of faith. And so uh our shared faith and and kingdom values uh uh is what part of what we talk about, you know, today and then on this on this podcast on the forage here. So so welcome, Justin.
SPEAKER_03Um Thank you. Glad to be here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, good. Uh tell us briefly. I have no idea. So just uh so so truly it's kind of fun to talk about talking with somebody that I've never really uh dug in with, man. So we did a little tour um uh PWI a few minutes ago. But uh tell me about your family, you're married, I assume, and all that. Tell us about that a bit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so um I'm uh married and uh got two kids, yeah uh 14 and uh 17. Nice uh boy and girl. And uh Nicole and I have been married, uh see, we got married in 2004, gonna put me on the spot here. So 22 years and uh uh happily married, uh great family, and uh very supportive wife, what I do. That's great. So we need that, don't we? Yeah, big time. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_01Uh we were talking this morning just a bit. I think we're the same age, we're both 45, and uh um and been married. I've been married 24 years, you've been married 22. So yeah, it's great. Um, so we got done with a little tour of PWI and I'll kind of enjoy doing that and and sharing a bit of our story. Just tell me briefly, man. What are some things you saw this morning uh that we could be doing better? Things that that you felt like made sense, that we were doing well. Help me out, man.
SPEAKER_03Well, first off, um, you know, thanks for giving me the tour. I love seeing that stuff. Uh with being an electrical contractor, I see the inside of factories a lot, but I don't necessarily get to see behind the curtain a little bit. And that was very cool to see. Um, you know, I love what I saw this morning and just seeing the the heart behind some of the things. And I know uh that's hard to do when you got the customers smacking you in the face sometimes and uh deadlines and all that stuff. Sometimes the the value and the people take a backseat. You're right. And it's hard to keep that in the forefront. So I, you know, seeing you guys do that and uh just making a a very conscious effort, even when it hurts, and maybe the timelines of projects stand in the way of it. That was that was pretty cool. So I was honestly very impressed. I'm not just saying that because you invited me on the podcast. I'm saying it for real. Well, good.
SPEAKER_01I well, I I it's an honest question. I I you know there's always things we can improve, but you you you are so right, man. Like it it is it is hard. It is hard, you know, values are all great until they get tested in the heat of the moment. And and what do you do when things really get heat really get hot and customers are screaming and yelling at you? And we we until I share with you a bit uh on the tour that we are behind, we're gonna we're gonna miss a few deadlines. Uh I did call a good friend of mine last week and you know let him know that we're gonna miss I mean uh uh you know uh one of his deadlines. And and and so when a friend is a customer and many of our customers are friends of mine, so it's difficult to have those conversations. And it's because that it all starts with me, right? So I I uh I probably made some bad calls or didn't pull sales back as early as I should have on on some promises that we made. And we didn't do it intentionally, of course, but we uh we uh uh it we're in that situation where we're trying to get some help from other from other fab shops and we're trying to try to survive this thing. So it's not about me, but thanks for taking the tour with me this morning. Uh I love I love talking business. So I'm so this is the next hour is about you, dude. So tell me about tell me tell me about Justin Moyer, tell me about Moir Electric, which is how I know you, but you're not just Moyer Electric, you're doing a lot of different things. So tell so maybe go back behind the curtain, go back to uh where'd you start with the entrepreneur bug that you have? Obviously, you're you're a serial entrepreneur, I would call you. So start back there.
SPEAKER_03So going way back, I guess I'll start, you know, I can distinctly remember my senior in high school um just kind of wrestling through. I grew up in Christian homes, so God was always part of my story. Um, but I was always wrestling with, you know, what am I gonna do to make an impact? Yeah. And um, so I thought the natural thing was I was gonna go into full-time Christian ministry. Okay. So I found a small Bible college in South Carolina and uh decided to go there. I was a terrible student in high school, but Bible college, if you pay, you can go. So love it. So uh I paid and I went and uh I was there a year and a half, loved it, made a lot of uh good uh relationships. And uh my roommate uh at in college, his dad was a pastor, but he also owned a business. And on the weekends, we'd drive this college was in Columbia, South Carolina. We'd drive to Myrtle Beach and we'd work at his dad's business. And I saw through that, his dad was a pastor of a church of, I don't know, 50, 80 people, small little church, but then he had this business and he had hired a guy to run it. And so we'd go there and work, and I just observed his dad being a man of faith and had a business, but he still had a heart for ministry. And so I went back to college the next year and and uh I went the whole first year and then went back the second, second semester or the first semester of the second year, and just like, man, I don't I don't want to be here. And I just realized that I'm I was wired for business. I enjoyed business. My brothers and I, I was thinking about on the way here this morning. My brothers and I used to play business. Like honestly, growing up, we would play business, we'd start little businesses in the basement, and we'd have make money and play, and so we'd have transactions. So I just I just always loved business. Um, and so I I dropped out of school, I moved to Myrtle Beach. I knew electrical work because my dad was an electrician. Okay, and my grandfather on my mom's side was an electrician. And so my dad, when my parents were dating, uh went to work for his soon-to-be father-in-law. Um he my my grandfather, who I never met, he was 48 years old, uh, died uh three months before my parents got married.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow.
SPEAKER_03So my dad went out and started his he went to work for somebody else. He went and then started his own. The year I was born, 1980, my dad started his own electrical business. And my dad, uh awesome electrician. Uh I've uh you know, I love working with my dad. I learned I learned hard work, I learned all these things from my dad. Um, and so I was my dad's first full-time employee out of when I moved back from South Carolina, I was his first full-time employee. So I went, I moved to Myrtle Beach, I didn't finish that part of the story. Moved to Myrtle Beach, went started working for electrical contractors that did large projects. Learned a lot there. I bet you sorry, I was stop you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, was that was that was that pretty like how long were you there for a year, a year or two?
SPEAKER_03Uh yeah, probably less than a year or two. Okay. But you learned you learned some things there that were certain things I still use today. It's crazy. And so I I really believe I look back and I think, well, those that was some divine intervention that I that was I had an opportunity to to do that. And then the contractor I worked for in South Carolina got slow. And uh, we did wired hotels, motels, that type of thing, large multifamily stuff. And um, so my dad happened to call me and he says, Hey, I got an opportunity back here, and he was he was not sure if he was gonna keep doing electrical or he had another business at the time as well, and uh if he was gonna keep doing it, or see if one of us boys would be interested in and helping him with it. So, anyways, that was uh 2001. I moved back here, burned through the work that he had in like, I don't know, it could have been a month, I don't know what it was. And anyways, we started to get some traction with some customers and stuff. But long story short, uh fast forward uh 2005, um, I started Moyer Electric. My dad actually came to work for me.
SPEAKER_01Oh, really?
SPEAKER_03And so um I I got very much involved on the more of the business side. Uh, got contractors where he was more just the industrial pathway and we had service accounts, that type thing. So um that was 2005, started Moyer Electric and um really just you know, me in a truck and my dad. Yeah, and and uh and then uh my brother, my oldest brother Matt, whose business partners with me now, he came to work for me. I believe I want to say it's 2008 or nine, uh sometime, maybe, maybe it's seven or something. I'm I'm bad with dates. It's all kind of a blur, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, a couple years later. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yep. And uh so he came to work for me. And um, you know, honestly, you tell people the whole uh there's there's nothing really glamorous about my story. It's it's uh it's been it's not been a microwave, it's been a crock pot. Yeah, and uh, and so I've been 25 years into it and and and the electrical trade, and you know, we're just we're still um you know, we're still figuring it out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I certainly understand that. Yeah, for sure. It's it's it is that way. What uh your dad's business kind of just shut down then? He came over to work for you.
SPEAKER_03He came work for me and he realized he's he's better, he's better with us, and we're better. And and so um my you know, like I say, my dad he worked, he worked in the field and and managed projects. Um honestly worked with probably a lot of your guys uh until he retired. He retired in 2020 and uh loved working with my dad and uh some of the greatest days, my dad and I out on the job sites. And um, so yeah, he's he's retired now, and we're loving that for him.
SPEAKER_01And good for good for you guys. That's so great. So he'd be he'd he'd be my parents have both passed away. We talked about that a bit earlier, but uh he's he's in his 60s now, I see. Early 70s. Early 70s, yeah. That's so good.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, he's he's enjoying retirement and and much deserved. Yeah. So yeah, so that then um, you know, you mentioned some of the other things I've gotten into.
SPEAKER_01So hold on, hold on to that thought a little bit. I want to know a little bit more about Moyer. So so PWI provides industrial, you know, overhead cranes, lifting products, safety, and and space. You guys know that you know that. So we ran into Justin's guys on all of our job sites. Uh we we would be installing all this equipment, and Justin's team would be in there hooking up all the electrical stuff to that. That's how we we we got got to know you guys. You're not you're not two men in a truck anymore, man. So tell me where you're at a little bit today.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, uh employees under uh right at 50 electricians. Man, and then we have uh management level people, estimator, incredible um, you know, office office personnel and business managers.
SPEAKER_01I mean, 50 electricians. How many people in the office? A couple, you're saying?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we we we're pretty lean, yeah. Lean and lean, basically. We could use a little help, yeah if you know anybody, yeah. But uh yeah, we're we always, you know, uh I've always been I'm I'm conservative in nature, and so I'm I'm not um you know, I'm I'm always looking at my business from the standpoint of what's what's overhead, what's gonna be overhead. And honestly, it's one of the things that's probably held me back because um I'm I'm I'm a slow learner. I've figured out that I can hire people, good people, to do the job. Yeah, and they're actually better at it than me.
SPEAKER_00100%.
SPEAKER_03And so I've operated a long time, like I try to do everything, and then I realize, okay, I can't keep up anymore. So I'm failing my customers or my other employees, so hire somebody. And then I look back six months later and like, wow, they're actually better at that than I am.
SPEAKER_01So so true, man.
SPEAKER_03And so I'm I'm I'm figuring that out. I'm in the middle of that still. And this we're on a we're on a pathway here, probably in the past, I'm gonna say five years. My brother and I have made a conscious effort realizing that we have um, it's not about just us anymore, and we have a team members that are relying on us, and we have to have opportunity for good people to step into new positions. So it's really forcing us to grow. Yeah. And it's not even like we make a conscious effort, like, oh man, we want to we want to double the business in five years. We're just saying we're gonna do the next right thing and we're gonna take this opportunity on because really this we have people who want to move up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that's I'm trying to pull them trying to run conduit and pulling wire. Yeah, and they earn that right to maybe be an estimator. Are you thinking estimator, you're thinking sales project manager, anything like that.
SPEAKER_03And you know, I tell everybody that interviews with me, I say the high the sign of a high IQ is when you want to do better in your career for your family. Yeah, and so I want people like that. Well, in order to have people like that, you have to have opportunity for them. So it's really forcing our hand, honestly, to grow, not necessarily for us. Um, you know, we just we really want to, and if we want to keep good people, we have to have opportunity for them to move up. They're not gonna do the same thing. Some people want to do the same thing the rest of their life. That's awesome. Yeah, and you need those people. Some people want to do something, yeah, have an opportunity to move up. So it's really, it's really pushing, pushing Matt and I to think, how can we do this better? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I love that. You know, we how how do you how do you figure out the the dichotomy between promoting somebody up into their incompetence? You know, because there's there's some people that you you think, hey, he's been doing this for for 15 years, he must be tired of it. I should promote him to a leadership position or an SP position or whatever that might be. Right. Or do you say, I'm perfectly fine, even if they don't see themselves. I think it's I think as leaders we have to figure out what what those people's strengths are, what their giftings are sometimes. Because sometimes we have promoted people up to leadership roles where they would have been much happier just pulling conduit all day, right?
SPEAKER_03Sometimes you're doing somebody a disservice by elevating them to a position that they don't really want. You think they want, but they don't. And and um yeah, some people, I mean, one of the things that I'm I'm making a conscious effort on is is not viewing things through the lens of seniority in our organization. Yeah, just because you've been here 20 years doesn't mean you're the next guy. Yeah you have to be the best applicant for it. Yeah, you could be here two years and you've exceeded the the the role that the person who's been here 20 years.
SPEAKER_01Man, bro, you're so right.
SPEAKER_03And so, and so we really want to hide we want to put people in the position that they're best at.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And and some of those conversations are harder to have than others. Yeah. And some people some people don't want it either. You know, I'm always thinking, hey, what's the next thing? And and that's not everybody. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think we're wired the same way there, but I I and so I so sometimes we actually push that on people that don't even want it or or whatever. So and I I think I think there's the times when you say the word promotion that I don't think they see they might see dollar signs, they might see you know, prestige with that new role. But I think we as leaders need to be good enough to see, I think your gifting is here. And like and you might be able to manage two or three people on a on a job site, but you probably aren't gonna be a production manager or scheduling manager over 50 people, you know, right? That may not be your bag of tea, getting those phone calls all all through the day and night, whatever that is.
SPEAKER_03You know, we're talking compensation. That doesn't necessarily mean the person who's at the top is the higher compensation. This person that is maybe even they report to the manager, they're so skilled at what they do that their position uh is compensated differently.
SPEAKER_01So you're okay with with the electrician making more than a supervisor if that if that makes the right sense at the time.
SPEAKER_03That's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_01You do you openly discuss that with your team? Is that is that no you're not you're not discussing, hey, these people, but but you're saying you're saying you're okay with that mindset. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And we're very much merit-based. You know, you you're you're compensated based on what you bring to the table. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I I am too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean, that's uh I mean, I'm merit-based every day I show up to work.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. We owners talk about that as well. And Dave Ramsey talks a lot about about wearing hats, like, like, you know, we're in the in the ownership, uh, you know, you know, Ryan, Darren, and Kyle, us three brothers, um, regular regular guests on the show here, um, is uh, you know, we're we're owners. We own that we own the business, and and we're not we're not equal, but we're you know, they're we're both we're all three very, very, very vested in the business. But when we get to work in the boy on a Tuesday morning, uh we take the ownership hat off and we wear the hat that we uh you know, I'm the CEO and president, and you know, uh, and you know, they're they fill their roles as VP of sales, VM engineering, and uh and other roles. And so I I feel like we practice that as well as we possibly can. And it's it's hard sometimes as an owner to not dig down into the weeds of something. Yeah, we fight that a little bit uh as as owners to not uh dig micromanage and dig into the weeds, right? So but I'm sure there's things you see that you know that drive you nuts sometimes. But you try to wear the right hat uh and and and let that leader uh take care of that that problem.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I think you know uh we're the same in this, I would suspect that you know I grew up, I know how to do electrical work. I grew up in it. I grew up as a kid, and so it's it's hard not to get in the weeds sometimes because I still I still like the work. Yeah. Now my role now doesn't allow me to go out and do electrical work anymore. About probably 15 years ago, I had to literally take the tools out of my truck and I don't have the tools because I will I will jump in there because I can do it. Yeah, yeah, but um, and so it it's easier to get in the weeds when you know how to do the work. Yeah, you know now. Some of the stuff that we're doing now, I'm not capable of. I don't know, I have people that know way more than oh, yeah, it is cool, man. It's I love it too. It's it's not even intimidating to me. It's it I love it. And I quite honestly, yeah, I've I've been at it so long that I probably bad at a lot of things that I used to think I was good at. Isn't that crazy? But it but it is good, it's good to have um people who know a lot more than you do and who are better just frankly better at it. Yeah. I love that.
SPEAKER_01I love when you you just gave us there's a lesson on delegation, man. You when you when you let go, you often all of a sudden see people that are doing things better than what what you repeat yourself. And I I often say six months. It's not always six months, but six months to a few years, they're all of a sudden doing doing it better than you what you could have because they have all the time to invest in that. They're they're honing that skill only, and they're doing a really good job at it. I love that.
SPEAKER_03And you find out that your customers are better served and they're happier. Yes, and you and you actually gain customers.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like that. Yeah, yeah, when you when you just freaking let it go, man, sometimes and just and just and it and that takes some like cringy letting sometimes like sometimes you see stuff that isn't right either, right? And you're like, oh, that's not how I would do it. And you might you might you know coach that a little bit more and all that, but it but uh ultimately it's getting done, the customer's happy, yeah, and it took maybe a little bit longer, but they're gonna learn that. They're gonna learn some of those mistakes, right? So, okay, so so you got this, you got Moyer Electric, very, very successful company, um, and and you guys are doing well. Tell me, tell me I know you own some other uh businesses as well. How do how did that all did you get bored a couple years ago? Tell tell us about that next step. Um yeah, well, I don't know about bored.
SPEAKER_03Um I I guess I've always just viewed um when I see an opportunity that and so I had I had an opportunity to to uh buy a cleaning company 2014. And um so I I just you know I I was think about this on the way over. I've told a lot of people about this. I don't know how um if this is the right biblical answer. I don't spend I I believe God gifted me in business. Sure. And I believe He gave me the tools and the brain to operate within that space. I I probably don't I don't spend enough time praying over decisions that I make. I would I would just I tend to say, hey, you know what? This is this is an opportunity in front of me. Yeah and and And um so so I've jumped on it, you know. Yeah, and so I've made I've made a lot I honestly make a lot of decisions that way. Yeah, and and people will spend any time praying about it. Well, no, I just I believe you know, God gave me an opportunity, He gave me a platform, gave me the ability to do something, then I'm gonna do it. Yeah, and so that's honestly uh how I stumble across the the cleaning business. A friend of mine was gonna sell it, and um, and yeah, so I I bought that. Uh hired my brother-in-law, uh Kip, runs that uh completely, does awesome at it. He uh he I honestly, you know, Kip, I I would be terrible at running that business, and he's just he's good at it. Um I back him up on the other things that I'm good at, and and he's great at running the operations.
SPEAKER_01So you're pretty much just getting a PL every month, PL once a month.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he he runs it completely. And in fact, is uh number a couple of years ago he started buying into the business. Good, good for him. And so, yeah, and he's very much deserved deserving of that. And uh so yeah, he he runs that completely. I mean, I I I can log in if I want to, you know, that type thing. But um, yeah, he he takes care of that. And then um in 2020, I had an opportunity to buy a um small RV furniture company. Okay, and uh that's in Wakarusa. My father-in-law had that uh business for about 30 years, okay, and uh he went to retire, so I bought that up. No idea.
SPEAKER_02Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_03That was your father-in-law so so Kip Kip's dad? It it'd be our wife's dad. Okay, gotcha. Your wife's dad. Okay, gotcha. So I bought that bought that um from Bob in uh 2020. Nice. And uh so yeah, and I have an operations manager that that's there. And yeah, how involved are you there daily, weekly? Um, I have been a little bit more over the past year. Yeah, I've been a little more involved there. Um, but you know, the RV thing is more cyclical, and yeah, I always wanted to get in the manufacturing space. Yeah, I never was in that. I was always with the cleaning business and the electrical, it's service-based business. Sure. And so I always wanted to get to manufacturing, totally different animal than than what I'm uh used to. So it's been a it's been an education, it's been a learning curve for me, but it's been yeah, I can say it's been good.
SPEAKER_01It's kind of similar to what we were sharing this morning during our tour. I talked about, you know, we're manufacturers first. We think like manufacturers. And so us getting in the service side of the business and servicing our products and servicing our cranes and all that has been a challenge for us because it was it wasn't our first, it wasn't our first love, honestly. Right. And so we, you know, we we we were more like, oh crap, these things break sometimes. We should probably fix them for our customers. And that's how we really built the service department in the last decade. Uh so yeah, I totally understand. Yeah, you came the other direction from that. Yeah, I'm service first, yeah. It's very, very, very different. Um so uh so you so you you got an operations guy over the over the uh the furniture business, you have a you have an operations or I mean a solid operations guy on the cleaning service. You're you're cleaning residential, uh you're cleaning residential commercial, industrial, new construction cleans.
SPEAKER_03Okay. A lot of the contractors that I work for on the so I've got opportunity there that uh cross over there with customers. Yep. So genius, man. A lot of the shameless plugs, you know.
SPEAKER_01I love that. I love that. I didn't even think about the fact that you have customer base that overlaps there. That's tedious, man.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so you have you have three or four ladies or uh going to it, going to an office to clean it up after the drywall dust and paint. Okay, right.
SPEAKER_03That type of thing. So yeah, there's a crew of Dutch Clean. I think there's about 60 to 70 team members there between two locations. That's that's great.
SPEAKER_01I love it, man. So now you're in the manufacturing side of the so go back to to Moyer Electric for a moment now. Are you are you still president CEO of that? Do you do you have a second in command that is kind of running the ship? There's your brother.
SPEAKER_03So my brother, my brother is uh is buying into Moyer Electric as well. Um, and so he and I very much kind of operate uh in similar roles. Um, I'm the president of the company. Yeah. Um and uh Matt, you know, he he certainly speaks into a lot of things that we do. Um he's worn a lot of different hats for me. He's the guy that um if I say, hey, I think we should do this and we're on the same page, he's the guy to implement that. Sure, sure. Um he's been awesome at that. He wore the HR hat for years. Sure. Um, and honestly, one of those things that like he and he and I were both trying to do all these different things. And he's he's he's the guy who can we can have an initiative and he'll implement it. Sure. Uh about a year ago, we made a decision like we're both dying here, we're buried. Yeah, uh, we hired a business manager, and that's been a home run for us. Uh a real win for our employees because the HR side of the company was becoming a problem for us. Yeah, a good problem, but yeah, uh it was it was too much.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so uh Josh has taken over the uh the HR side of uh HR, a lot of the business helping us implement new systems of employee benefits and all these things that I'm absolutely terrible at. You'd me both. But I know we need, and and uh and so that's been a that's been a good thing for us. So I'm still involved. Um going back to my electrician hat, yeah. I'm still involved uh with a lot of projects. I enjoy it. Um I enjoy you know showing up to job site meetings, and and so that's something that I I need to a business coach would tell me I need to step out of that, but it does give me a good pulse on what we're doing good at and what we're not.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I don't want to in the service business, you don't want to get too far removed from that. Agreed. And so um I don't know what that's gonna look like. You know, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I can use that advice. That's good advice for me too. I I I'm such a delegate, I've become such a delegate, I was a terrible micromanager in my earlier life. And then in the you know, a decade ago, I learned how to delegate, and I've I've probably gotten to the place where I I at times want to pull too far away from the daily. My brothers uh challenge me on that at times. And I rightly so. I I I I'm like, he's doing it, it's his job, I'll stay out of it. But there is times where where I'm I'm certainly pulled in as well. And I don't know that I enjoy it, like you're saying, as much. I'm I'm a little frustrated that why am I dealing with this? This is not my problem, you know. Right, right, right. Because I am a visionary, as as you clearly are as well. And I'm I kind of want to look forward. Like look, we're going there. How do we get there faster? How do we go there? Um, and so uh, but I you know it it is it is um it is important for us to to look at what's what's happening in the weeds, what's broken today, yeah, and how do we make sure that gets fixed correctly? Because it's it's a process that maybe your new guy, what's his name, the the business manager? Josh, yeah. Josh, that you know, Josh may not know how to fix that, but you can help him give direction towards that process that doesn't happen again, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, Matt and I are trying to really work to do that. Like instead of just dealing with this one situation, how do we deal with it in a way that sets a precedent so it can be dealt with the same way, you know, over and over.
SPEAKER_01So I I mentioned uh uh Trevor, my my uh my assistant, uh who for six years uh got promoted to chief of staff. And that's really what what uh you calling you're calling Josh a uh a business manager, which is great. But really, I I I I backfill my weaknesses in in Trevor and a lot of these processes and procedures and policies, the three P words that I that I despise, yeah, uh, but are very, very important. And I'm just terrible at them. So um between between Trevor and HR and and uh and Austin, uh sorry, Trevor as chief of staff and Austin and HR, getting that tall work together well, it it's it's very helpful. And we we've been able to hire and build a team much much more efficiently than I ever could. So yeah. So tell tell me a little bit more about I guess how how'd you learn this stuff? The the leadership thing, the delegation, it's did did you have a business coach? You mentioned a business coach. Um they would tell you, and they're not always right, by the way. So so especially the ones who haven't ever done it, right? So I I'm I'm a little bit the word coach, I get I get a little bit, ooh, you know, and so if you've never done it, uh I love coaches who have done it and done the hard things. Now they're retiring and helping guys like you and you and me. But did you have some help along the way, man? Uh in on on the leadership side of things. I I don't know that I ever really have. Um you're just that smart, huh?
SPEAKER_03I think I figured it out like a trial and error type thing, made a bunch of mistakes along the way, probably. But I mean, probably uh honestly, this sounds like a cliche answer, but you know, just I I think just treating people, I think going back to the electrical business, you know, I I very much built my business through the lens of an electrician.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03What is it that if if I if I'm electrician, what is it that going is going to make me want to work here? Yeah. And so um we have, you know, clean trucks, yeah, new trucks. Yeah. I have an air-conditioned, heated air-conditioned shop where they can pull their truck in, they can load up. We have more inventory than the supply house. They can pull in, and they're not, they're not when I start off, it's like out in a snowbank, yeah, and you're frustrated at six o'clock in the morning loading your truck. And so I just started like all these things start implement what is it that is gonna make somebody want to work for Moyer Electric? Yeah, and then you know, and just my approach to how I treat them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, you know, there's times I want to yell and scream, yeah, but I never have. Yeah. Yeah. I just don't because you know, if somebody calls me, hey, we wrecked a van. Okay. Yeah. It's just another Tuesday. Yeah. We got they make more vans, you know, we're good. And so now I want to yell and scream. Yeah. But it's pointless, you know. It is.
SPEAKER_01And so um Justin, I don't think I don't think that's cliche at all. I I seriously, I love, I love that. And an investor coming in could never have done that because he because he's never been you. Yeah. And so I think you you putting yourself in their I think that's genius, man. Putting your yourselves in in their shoes, what would it, what would they like? I mean, driving their nice van into a clean shop, loading up the conduit, the wire, yeah, uh, making it easy for them to do to be successful. Guess, guess what happens then, man? They go out to the job site to meet your customers, they're happy. And so I feel like the customers can feel that's that's just man, it's what it just aligns so well with what our goal is as well. It's like, man, when we when we when we're when we're transforming who we are as as people, as humans, as husbands, as fathers, as leaders in our community, in our home, we also treat our customers differently as well, and and in a much better way. And so I love like our guys certainly feel that way about your guys working. I've never once heard any complaints about your guys, and and and and you know, and and trust me, I I've heard a lot of stories. It's never been Moyer Electric, so that's that's great.
SPEAKER_03So Yeah, and I think the other thing that Matt and I really focus on is we we really hire people, we don't hire based on, hey, we got this big job coming up, we need people. Like when somebody comes in and they interview with us, you know, I'm taking the weight of their family. Like, I want if I'm hiring somebody, I want them to retire at more electric. I really do. That's not even I'm just not just saying that. Um now, not everybody has that opportunity because they might not hold up there on the stick, but but I don't hire based on I got this need right now. Yeah, yeah. And and I really feel like I mean, we feel the weight, and I think sometimes it's it's hurt us from a growth standpoint because we're really trying to look for people who you know, I said I hire based on character. You can be the best electrician in the world, you can be the best cleaner in the world. If you have a bad attitude or you have bad character, I can't trust you, you can't work here. Yeah, 100%. I would rather take the person that has good character and I can teach them electrical work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so 100% that that has now that's that's not a fast growth model, you know. It's not uh there's it's a crock pot, like you said, exactly. And so um, but that help that's helped our culture, yeah. Because we do have by and large, we have people who want to be here. Yeah, they they want to work for us. Um, that doesn't mean some days don't suck, yeah, because it does, but for sure, but um, but by and large, people want to work for us, and then they tell their friends, hey, this is a good place to work. Yeah, come on over to my book. So that's that's kind of how that how it's kind of gone down for us. Good.
SPEAKER_01No, no shame at all if you don't if you don't read. Do you read you read books at all? Yeah, I do. Best thing you've read the last couple years.
SPEAKER_03I um I re I start off reading a lot of books. I don't finish them. They're they're stacked up on my end table.
SPEAKER_01I got the same exact problem.
SPEAKER_03Um probably good to great. Good to great, yeah. Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we just we just actually studied that as leaders. Really? Um we I started doing a book study with uh probably the the top 25 leaders of PBOI, which is which is the all the mid-level managers that are running departments whatever that we went through as one of the four. We do one every quarter, and we uh uh last year one of the quarters was good to great. And I'm uh you heard Jim speak a number of times over it's just great, great. And and the hedgehog hedgehog principle of of just I I told you that once we got serious about who we are and what we're doing, uh it it's it's when you know what can we be the best at in the world, yeah. Which is which is all which is Jim Collins. I mean, just genius. Uh yeah. Um so yeah, I I I I love that. I I I have big ambitions as well. I have a library full of books, and I don't get them read as fast as I as fast as I I can either in the middle of John Deloney's um uh leading a non living a non-anxious life, leading a non-anxious life. Anyhow, it's really good uh right now. But it takes me longer to get through books than what I think it should. Um my dad was always a very fast reader, could blaze through a book in a weekend. It takes me longer than that.
SPEAKER_03So I get sidetracked easily. I'll I'll read a page and then I realize I read all the words, but I don't know what any of it said and I gotta start over again.
SPEAKER_01100%, man. Yeah. Back to the dropping out of college thing. I'm a high school dropout. I got the exact same problem. Yeah, squirrel, squirrel. I I see squirrels everywhere I go, man. It's it's crazy. So, you know, talking to you last fall a little bit, just for a few minutes in Oklahoma City, um uh I I felt like well, the thing I remembered about our conversation was the fact, the fact that I I feel like you've done better it than I have in in building building these businesses that you've built and being an owner rather than an operator, essentially. Like you you talked about this you know pretty clearly that you got you know people running these three businesses, maybe Moyer, you're more more involved in daily.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01How do you how do you how have you done that? And maybe and maybe maybe that was true, six months ago, and you're back in the weeds with a lot of stuff right now. But how how have you um I call it the owner versus operator mentality where I mean if you own something, you're it's it's running by itself over here. That's that's kind of the the definition, I believe. Uh an operator is the one who's in the weeds all day running it and and and if the business if if you're not there for a week or two, the business kind of stops uh in many cases. Um I think I don't think you're there for sure. So tell me tell me a little bit how you've how you've done that. What's the mindset been around that? Just just do you eventually um do you want to get all the way there with Moyer as well? What what is your goal there?
SPEAKER_03Apparently I'm good at acting because of you you see a different perspective than I do. But um I would say I now I'm I've gotten better at this because I've had to let things go. Sure. Some of it is um and we have gotten more people in the right places, and that's helped. But I also have to schedule time that I'm not there, sure. And so, like, for example, I don't work Fridays in the summertime. Wow, period. Wow. Like now, my wife, if she was sitting here, she would nudge me and say that, well, actually, there's a couple years in there you did. And I started doing that close to 10 years ago. Eight to ten years.
SPEAKER_01That's incredible, Justin. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Now there was a couple years in there where we got a bunch of crazy things going. I was doing some meetings and stuff, but I've had to schedule because I was way out of bounds for a whole season of my life. Yeah. Um, she'd also tell you that I went after my son was born. He was born, he was healthy, every mom and baby are good, and I left and went to the office. You know, so there's things like that in my past that sure that so out of bounds the other way. Yeah. Um, you know, when Nicole and I were dating, uh, we broke up, I don't know how many times, just because I she, you know, yeah, I was running a business. Yeah, like this is you were you were in your mid-20s? Yeah, early to mid-20s. And it's like, and she's like, uh, you know, you like your business more than me. Yeah, you know, right. And so I've been through seasons like that where um I'm way out of bounds the other way. And and here's the thing in business, that's how it is sometimes. It is that way sometimes. And so, and she understands that, and and we we're on the same page on that, but um so I've had to be more strategic on how I structure my life. Yeah, and so I'll leave, um, I I leave a decent amount now that I and I just I have to trust that the the team that's in place can make happen. Now I I'm you know, I'm I'm working remotely, I'm still doing things, yeah, but um, you know, I it's so it's a work in progress, but part of it is because of the burnout fatigue part of being in business. And so, you know, I'm looking at it and think, well, I can either do this, put boundaries in place, or I don't want to get to the point where I have a force-sale sign and go and stick it in the front yard and say, I'm out of here because I'm burned out. Yeah, and so I've had to do things that um you know that maybe don't make sense from business-wise. If I if I worked, if I worked like I always did, could I be in a different place? Probably, but is that healthy? No. Yeah, it's not. And so I've had to I've had to uh structure my life a little different just just to avoid that. So I'm by nature I'd be a complete workaholic. Yeah. Because like I say, we played business as kids. I mean, who does that?
SPEAKER_01You know, so yeah, I love it, man. We didn't play, we were out in the shop working legit after after after dinner. We would go out after after after dinner and and sh sweep up shavings off the floor and floor dry. And because my dad was out there working all day, and we'd go out there as kids and we just we'd sweep the floor. We were out there, we were doing the work, man. So I was welding when I was six years old, man. I get it, I get it. Uh, not for not for hire, but I I was playing. My dad would get give me a pile of scraps, say, man, build something here, you know. So just it was fun. I loved it. But I I appreciate the honesty there, man. Because I I was gonna ask you how what if your wife would agree with with the answer you gave me there. So uh is is um it's it's hard. Do you feel like your your team members, like so you're you're off on Friday and your phones, you know, do not disturb or whatever. Uh does that does that get honored well, or are they a little bit like yeah, Justin's got the playboy here?
SPEAKER_03No, they're they're very much in my management team, it's like they can call me anytime. I I that's fine. Yeah, um, actually, I feel almost the opposite. A lot of times they're like, okay, don't bother him. Like they they wanna they actually um they're actually trying to not bother me. Sure. And and sometimes I'm like, dude, I don't care, call me. Yeah, like yeah, if something's gonna be a big issue, just call me. It's no big deal. Yeah, I'm just sitting here, I'm doing, you know, whatever. So um, no, I I feel like, you know, to this point, I've had a lot of support. You know, I'm I'm old school from the standpoint that I always want people to view me that I'm a hard worker. Yeah, like it's it's a badge honor, you know. I mean, it is and I want my kids to know that about me. You know, I don't want my kids, that's you know, I almost stress about that. Like, I want my kids to think, man, dad is a hard worker.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03And and my wife, too. You know, I mean, that's nobody wants to be lazy. I mean, that's that's that that so so but I've spent so much of my time the other way. And so on the other end of the spectrum where you were pushing it in the other the other thing. And so I think a lot of, especially the lot of guys who have been with me a long time are like, yeah, go, hey, dude, you've earned it. You you've earned it. Yeah. I love that, man. I love that. And I don't, you know, I don't it it almost sounds funny to say I've earned it because I don't I still don't feel I do. You know, I feel like well, I gotta be in I need to be in the office before anybody gets there, you know, right? Or the last one to leave. And my brother's the same way, you know. I mean, we're we're just we're just wired that way. And some of it is too, I feel like stage of life, you know. So some of it, it's like, you know, my son's 17 and you know, senior year, it's like, okay, we're gonna do some stuff this next year because I you know, I want to be around it. That's right.
SPEAKER_01And so what's what's a typical Friday look like, man? Are you are you because I'm I'm I'm intrigued with your idea. Don't tell my brothers that, but I'm intrigued with your idea. Uh because we're we're in the thick of it, man. We're we're trying to build something, you know, and so it takes all of us to make it to make you know make the PBI world spin, right? Yeah, but uh are you going to the lake? What are you doing, man?
SPEAKER_03So uh about nine years ago I bought a little lake cottage and and we moved there in the summertime. Nice. So that's where I hang out. That's kind of my retreat. Yeah. Um love being there, love being on the water, and and so that's that's where I spend my Fridays.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh friends and family. And so we do that in the summertime. Good. And then uh a number of years ago I'd bought an RV and I take it to Florida in um in November. Nice. And so then we just fly back and forth, and so I go down uh long weekends and sometimes a week at a time and stuff like that. And uh I'm not a winter person, but I'm stuck here in northern Indiana, so I do what I can to. To get away. And and actually, you know, I there there's times I'll go to Florida and I'll have more ideas and I'll come back more energized. And I get more done from Monday to Thursday when I leave again than I do if I was there the whole week. Right. And I just I'm I'm I'm I'm refreshed, I'm rejuvenated, I'm cranking, I'm sharp mentally, and I'm I'm ready to go. And so I I really feel like I'm I'm away, but I'm not. Yeah. It's it's actually some sometimes it's the best thing for your organization to get away.
SPEAKER_01It's really good.
SPEAKER_03And because when you get in the weeds, you just when you're there day in, day out, it's easy to let the frustration creep in. And um, so even today doing this, you know, it's like this was this is inspiring to me because it's like you you step back and you you tell the story, you hear your story, yeah, and it's like there's something to this, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, yeah. I completely agree with you, man. I I it's so good to get away. I I I I've I've been I've been observing not Friday, I'm taking off Fridays yet. Uh so you're ahead of me there, man. I'm a little jealous of that, to be honest with you. What are you doing this Friday? Yeah. I'm working, baby. Oh, actually, is it July 4th? We're off. Oh, yeah, we're off. Yeah, I'll let you have another day off. It's a free day off for me. It's great. But uh I do take Tuesday afternoons and get out of the office. I I get away somewhere, coffee shop, go somewhere, and just because that's that's kind of my little I call that my vision afternoon. And and so I'm not sitting by the lake, which which sucks because I would I I would love that as well. But uh, but uh no, I I do I agree with you. When I when I get away, get out of the office a little bit and get out, I'm able to just to see the big picture more. And I have more, I have I have more genius ideas, right? It when you when you're away from it and and rather than being in the thick of it and answering emails. Yeah. Because that's what you do when you're in office all day, right? So yeah, it's very good, man. Well, but pressed with with how free you do you are, and uh obviously I didn't I didn't know that that the Friday off thing. That's that's intriguing. So I'm really glad to hear that and and I can definitely learn from that, man. So um want to just dive into just uh just wrapping this this story up, man, a little bit here. So what else what what else uh has influenced you in a big way in your in your life, man? Like like uh other other leaders, um, other any other books you've read, uh uh friends you hang out with, are you are you eating lunch with other people a lot? Are you are you are you are you investing in other relationships there as well? Yeah. People that are challenging you?
SPEAKER_03I feel like I probably fall short on that. I don't um in terms of having having other business leaders or people that I associate with, I I don't have a lot of that. Um that's something that I I am always trying to seek out, you know. Um, but everybody's busy. Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_01Well, even trying to get you on on such a minute. I'm a little intimidated to call you and say, man, dude, you got time? Do you can you can you give me two hours of your time? Sure, yeah. It's a lot to ask, right?
SPEAKER_03Sure, yeah, but it's good, it's it's fun, it's it's uh encouraging. So you know, as far as anything, one of the things that and probably part of the reason that my whole work-life balance has shifted a little bit. So I had a brother, uh, 37-year-old brother, he was younger than me, passed away in 2020 in a motorcycle accident. Oh man. And he worked for me. Really? Yeah, and uh he got home from a he's on a job site in Syracuse and uh went home, got on his motorcycle, and headed back out and and was killed. And uh yeah, and so and he was you know involved in our business and everything, and and just that whole thing of navigating that, you know. And so that's it's really caused me. I I constantly live in this this tension of you know living in the here and now and enjoying uh enjoying life versus you know, I believe God put me on this earth for a purpose and and he gave me an opportunity in business. And so this whole thing of like this this tension, I I think it's healthy, um that you know, I'm I'm constantly wrestling with that, you know. And um it's really good. And so that's that's been probably you know, past those six years ago, you know. I'm I've been I've been wrestling with that, you know. It's like I wanna I believe that you know one day we're gonna stand before King Kings and he's gonna say, What did you do with what I gave you in the time? And so so you got that, yeah. And and then yet, you know, I've got this other side of my family and friends, and and uh this the the the finite amount of time we're here on this earth.
SPEAKER_01And so Well that not that nothing like losing a brother. And is there three of you? There was three of you, brothers, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I have an adopted brother that works for us now. So yeah, Dan, Dan's been with us a long time.
SPEAKER_01Nothing like um, nothing like you know that to like shake up your world, man. And perspective on what's truly important. Um my my life botto is is uh true success is when the people closest to you love and respect you the most. And so you're you're always wrestling with that. That's also the people you work with, right? But the people closest to you. How do you wrestle and all that and not having your wife frustrated that uh that you're on the phone on a Saturday or case a Friday afternoon and taking that hot phone call? Uh but man, when you when you lose a family member, um and it it's we've certainly had some loss of our own. And it's just it's hard. I wish dad could be here hanging out with us and enjoying this, or I wish he'd be in the RV. Yeah, and then mom would be in the RV and and and enjoying some of the that was always his goal. He wanted to buy a fifth wheel in an F-350 and and travel around, do some voluntary work, and and uh you know, it never happened for him, you know. And so you you think about all this, and and you know, my mom died at 49. So I thought it was just four years for you and I, but yeah. And so it's like, man, you think about man, and the kids, you know, our oldest are you know, they're they're uh my oldest is dating and has a girlfriend. It's probably all gonna change here really quickly, you know. We're gonna snap our fingers, it'll all it'll all change.
SPEAKER_03And so and so, yeah, uh I But can you imagine uh your your parents seeing where you guys are at now? I mean, that's just wild to think about, you know.
SPEAKER_01It is, it is, and but it's it's just it's it's bigger than us, man. I and I'm I'm I'm I'm like you. I I I don't know how it all happened. We do we try to do the right, the next right step, we'll try to make the right next move, answer the phone when it rang, and all of a sudden we're here and you know we're serving some great customers all over the country. It's it's been a blessing, man. So our listeners are out there, Justin. They're they're building these businesses, man. They're in there, they're in the thick of it. A lot of the guys are you know, electricians with two or three guys, man, or they're HVST guys with three or four texts. Um you already gave us a lot of good advice, especially about perspective. I love that. But man, if you if you could this this this the dude that's wrestling, he's in Nebraska, he's he's he's he's trying to build this business, he got it over, he got it from his dad, or he started on his own like you did. Um, what's the number one thing you could tell somebody about about how to get from where they're at today? They're in the trades, they're doing something. What's the number one thing you could tell them uh perspective-wise to get to where you're at today? And it it doesn't have to be ball about growth, but just like what is it what comes to your mind when I say that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I you know, I think for me it's been um I think if you would ask those closest to me, uh consistency uh showing up and you know every day that the grind part of it is real, yeah, and um it's hard to jump the line on that. Uh, you know, that's and and just kind of letting that process play out consistently consistency showing up every day. And I think just you know, treating your customers and employees um, you know, honestly, like you'd want to be treated. I mean, you know, um, you know, I there's been a lot of times over the years that I've probably cost myself a lot of money because we did something, it's like that ain't right. Yeah, I'm gonna fix it. Yeah, and I could I could not fix it, and nobody might ever not ever know. Yeah, but it's I can't drive by that building and know that someone writes, and and that's so small little things over the course of time that comp the compound effect, yeah. Another good book, by the way. Um uh the compound effect of a lot of small insignificant choices or steps um will pay off. And I I'm still I'm still on that journey. Sure. You know, I'm still I'm still um adding up all those things. But that that's what I would say the consistency of that.
SPEAKER_01It's a really boring word, man. I we I agree. It's a very boring word, and and guys like me struggle with that word, but but it's absolutely the prerequisite to success, right? Uh it's it's uh I I love that. It's a good it's a great answer. Because I because I I'm telling you, man, and I'm Justin, I know you feel this. There's times we just get really freaking tired. I know, I know that our listeners do as well. There's times when we just want to freaking quit. It's just not worth it.
SPEAKER_03You get that like every not every day, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01A few times a week, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Uh I I certainly feel every week where it's just like, you know what? We were out in Oregon uh to see my sister this past weekend, and and um, and I was like, man, honey, mountains are beautiful, what do you think? And so there's days where it's just like, man, it's just really worth it. But it but but but I do think we're both trying to build something that's it's it's it's that's that's bigger than us, right? And we're doing it, uh we we have a mission in mind. Um what tell me a little bit, um kind of segueing into like how how are you gonna wrap this whole thing up, man? Yeah, like what how is your mission? I I go back to to uh David Green and and man, I I've been thinking about you know Hobby Lobby story and them and them changing the world with what they're doing with fine with finances, right? I mean billions of dollars of of of change, right? And a lot of projects they're doing, um Bible translation, a lot of things they're doing. Uh what what is how has your mission evolved at all? Not necessarily just about that event, but I mean uh what's what's the next I mean most people retire 65, dude. What do you what are you thinking? What's what what comes to your mind when I say that? And and like uh do you want to go um do you have something else in mind the next decade coming up?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I guess, you know, back to our previous comment that it changes all the time, you know, good days and bad days, but you know, we have a lot of exciting things in front of us, and probably the best group of I'm I'm speaking in terms of Moyer Electric here, best group of young talent that we've ever had. Love it. And um, you know, 10 years ago I'd be sitting here think telling you the trades are screwed. Yeah, like there's nobody out there, yeah, people don't want to get into it, and that's not the case anymore. Um, we just opened up our apprenticeship portal. We open it up from from January 1 to May 1. Okay, and we look at all the applicants then, and we took four out of 90. Wow. And so we're truly some hope, man. Fantastic. And and here's the thing the frustrating part of it is we could have probably taken 25, but we have to be able to train them properly. So there's there's a bottleneck there, but uh my point being we have the we have some of the best talent I've seen coming out and young guys coming into the trades, and it gives me a lot of hope for the trades. And and so where that plays out, I don't know. Um, you know, you always think of family business, you think in terms of you know, what does this look like? My brother uh has a nephew who works for us full time. Uh my son's working for us this summer. It's kind of fun just to see him getting his feet wet in the electrical trade. He told me even last night, he's like, Dad, I'm did you really think I'd like this? I said, I didn't I didn't know, Tyler, but yeah, he's he's he's like, Man, I really like it. That's cool, man. And so, you know, it's stuff like that. It's like, who knows? Maybe there's be some moyers that keep it going. And um I, you know, whether or not I don't I don't think I'll be the 80-year-old guy that's still coming in the office every day. Right. But um, you know, it it would be fun to see see our kids for family step in somehow. So we're just gonna keep we're just gonna keep uh taking it day by day, month by month, year by year, and we'll see where it plays out. But um I'm pretty I'm I'm pretty excited about it, you know.
SPEAKER_01No, it's a good answer, man. I I well, I I think you're ready. I again I hate the the work-life balance term because it because you already alluded to the fact that it's not really that way. There's seasons of life where you're you're diving in. I'm glad our wives, my wife certainly understands that as well. But uh it's it's it's okay. I feel like you're you're enjoying life already. Uh more than a lot of people. There's a lot of dudes that are doing exactly what you're doing, that are working six or seven days a week. Yeah and and they're in the thick of it, and and that they will burn out. Uh or they'll hang on tight till they're 85 years old and they'll have um, you know, there's so many, I always say there's so many um 50 55-year-old little boys that their 75-year-old dads are still hanging on for their life to the business and won't let it go. Right. And I I just that to me is so sad. So let's not do that with our with our next generations if they're gonna be invested in the business and and involved there. So I think my my boys now working in the business has been probably have given has given me a fresh level of hope for saying, man, I've been doing this forever. I'm tired. Some days I'm really, really tired, man. I really am. Uh, but seeing seeing Dawson out there welding box charter cranes and Brock in there working in assembly, uh uh he grabbed he's full-time uh as of next summer. So it's good. It gives me hope as as it I'm sure it does you. Your kids are going through college. What's the plan there?
SPEAKER_03Well, uh, they're not sure yet. Yeah. Um my son is a musician, he's a drummer. Oh, really? And uh might might uh strike it down to Nashville and see what happens down there. So that'd be cool. Yeah, I'd love, I'd love for that to happen if if it works out. And uh my daughter's not sure what she's gonna do yet. So she'll be a freshman, freshman next year. In high school. In high school, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yep. Your son's gonna graduate high school in a year, right? Yeah, he's telling us my second son. Yeah, yeah. Very good. So what so what's next, man? Uh what's what's what's a what's a what's the challenge you're wrestling through today, this week, this month, uh, that you're trying to get through in the business? Like what's what's a decision you're working on right now? That's that's that's that's rough for you. What's yeah, what's the challenge you're facing today?
SPEAKER_03So one of the things we're um really looking at is a big opportunity we have in our company is on the service side of things, is how we're gonna restructure the service end of our business. And so we're in the middle of that now. We're we're looking at all our options of what can we do to capture the call volume that's coming in that we're you know, six, eight weeks out. We can't be six, eight weeks out on service. You can't. And so um, and that that's the residential. So we do residential uh and commercial industrial. So we're kind of across the board. We're we're way too far out, of no fault of anybody on our team. We're just we're just you know we've been good enough at what we do on the construction side and the um new installation side that that just creates more services. It does. And so and so we're it's a good problem to have, it's a self-created problem. And then um with our reputation in the community, you know, it's just it's more and more. So we're trying to we're trying to deal with that. Yeah, um, and are you splitting that up?
SPEAKER_01I'm really curious because it would help me and probably help our listeners as well. Are you are you looking at more of a separate division completely and have different leaders running? That's what we're thinking now. Those calls we'd have calls.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it'd almost be a whole totally separate arm within our company that it's just all service, uh, and then somebody to oversee all of it. And and that person, you know, it's it's weird because to this point, we've always you know take an electrician and you're gonna do this. So you know, we're looking beyond that. It's like putting systems in place, you don't need to be electrician. Yeah, sometimes it's better if you're not. Sure. And so, and so we're looking at all those options, and you know, we'll they're again uh you know, we'll hire based on character.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and we're finding, I'm sure you do as well, that those those service techs, the ones that are going out to the job side to solve a problem, whether it's a a generator, it's not firing up properly, whatever that might be for that homeowner or a commercial guy, uh, it takes kind of a different breed of people than the guy who's who's who's in the plant installing a new project, you know, whatever. And so finding and trying to hire that talent, train that talent. That's right. Train the talent is probably where we're struggling with the most. Is it's high.
SPEAKER_03It takes a long time. You don't because service people gain based on their experience that they see on the field. And so it takes a while. It does. It does. It doesn't happen overnight, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Man, Justin, thanks for the incredible conversation, man. I've I've really enjoyed to hear your story and and your your your your path, man. It's been it's been fantastic. I've learned a lot today that I never knew before, honestly. It's been it's been great. So um, so just uh a message to our listeners. Um, man, if you're if you're wrestling, you're fighting, uh, you're building that small business in the trades, like Justin and I are both doing here. We've been we've been doing this for decades now, right? Uh don't give up. I'm so glad you listened to the podcast today. You listened to uh what Justin's story was all about and you heard his values and heard what he's doing. Um keep keep hammering, keep fighting for it, keep doing it well, keep being consistent, as Justin shared with us today. So thanks for joining us today on The Forge.