The Forge with Ryan Miller
Step into the world of industrial manufacturing through candid conversations with the leaders shaping it. Hosted by Ryan Miller, CEO of PWI—a leading manufacturer of cranes, mezzanines, and fall protection systems. This podcast explores what it really takes to build and grow a successful business.
Ryan shares his own journey while sitting down with fellow CEOs and team leaders to uncover the stories behind their success—the challenges they faced, the lessons they learned, and the moments that defined them.
The Forge with Ryan Miller
Episode 7 | The Value of an Executive Assistant
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Delegation sounds simple until you're the one who has to let go. For Ryan Miller, hiring an executive assistant meant learning to hand over responsibilities he had always managed himself. In this episode, Ryan sits down with his current executive assistant, Micah Hershberger and his former EA turned Chief of Staff, Trevor Klotz to talk about how that decision changed the way he leads PWI.
They share what it takes to build trust between a leader and an executive assistant, what the first 90 days of that relationship look like and why effective delegation goes far beyond managing a calendar. Whether you're a leader struggling to give up control or someone supporting a leader, this episode offers a practical look at building trust and multiplying your time.
The Forge With Ryan Miller is a podcast created to help develop company cultures that result in strong teams and create lasting business growth. Real conversations with business owners, manufacturers, and leaders about what it actually takes to build something. Hosted by Ryan Miller, CEO of PWI a leading manufacturer of lifting, storage, and safety systems based in Indiana.
New episode every Tuesday — subscribe so you never miss one.
Executives or CEOs especially are infamous for saying things they're gonna do and then never do them. I think what Trevor helped me accomplish when he came on was to keep my promises.
SPEAKER_02I think an EA provides a tremendous amount of value on the energy management side of things for you as well. For a long time, I I asked myself of this EA thing, is this a is this just a stop on the way, or is this something that I'm building somewhat of a career with? And quite honestly, I turned it down for a long time thinking that it was just a stop on the way.
SPEAKER_00You have an inside track to my brain. And and we as CEOs, we're we are looking at stuff at the highest levels, and and before we're even ready to share them with partners, etc. Again, Mike, you start you talking about being five years out. I am I'm trying to be five years out. That takes a lot of hey, what if what if we drag this guy over to here? And some of those, they just can't be released yet because I just don't know if they're real. Micah could go cause a disaster in the company. I mean, just one mention could cause a train wreck.
SPEAKER_02When when Ryan is the giant standing above the trees looking beyond where we're going, that's important. But if he doesn't have somebody looking beneath the trees, making sure we're not gonna step over a cliff, then we can have a problem with my own.
SPEAKER_00Excited this morning to talk to our listeners, our guests, um, about uh how an EA transformed my productivity over the past seven or eight years. So I'm just really excited to be here this morning with my two guests here. And uh my two guests are my executive assistant currently, uh, which is Micah, and uh my past EA, which was uh Trevor Klotz. Uh so Micah Hirschberger, Trevor Klotz, welcome to the uh Forge. How y'all doing this morning? Doing really well. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, very good. Thanks for having us.
SPEAKER_00It's good to be here. Um so I get this question all the time. Uh the question is, is man, how does it work to have an EA? Um executive assistant? How do you how do you how do you how do you handle that? How does that work? Um and and and why did you choose to do that? And so uh I thought this morning it'd be it'd be really neat to just dive into this. And I think there's a lot of business owners, CEOs uh that that um are overwhelmed. They're struggling, they can't get it all done, and they want help, they don't know how to ask for help, they don't know how to delegate, they don't know how to do all that stuff. And so and so what an EA has done for me is just absolutely transformational. It is. And it started with you with you, Trevor. And so um, so I want to dive into that this morning a little bit. And and they ask, you know, CEOs ask me why why do you need one? I think the answer, the answer to that is is well, do you want to duplicate or double or multiply your time or do you not? And it comes down to that. And um, and I was a little uh going going back to where we started here, I before before I had one, I pushed back on it. Um I pushed back on this whole idea, and I I had I had I had mentors of mine, you know, pushing me towards that, but I I fought back on that. And so um, so but man, I would I don't know that I would ever go back uh to where we were at before that. So um, so I want to introduce Micah and Trevor here to you guys a little bit to our to our listeners. And um Trevor's currently chief of staff. We'll talk about that at the end of the show here. Uh, but Micah is currently uh my my assistant. And so let's go back uh seven years ago. So I here here I was. I was I was struggling. We were we were we were uh overwhelmed in business. Um things were moving fast, they were growing, and I wasn't able to get everything done. And uh I was having lunch with uh with Micah's boss, right? Uh your your boss Len, uh your your ex-boss uh Len. And so uh he's one of the mentors that really challenged me. So man, Ryan, it's time for an EA, you need to do this. And I said, Man, I just don't know if I want to do it this way. Uh I don't know if um if if if if I'm ready for that commitment. And I I had several people telling me the same thing. So I finally um so I finally uh bit. And really, really what happened was I woke up, you know, uh well let me go back here. I I was thinking about who this this magical person would be that would actually you know compliment my my traits, who would, who would be opposite of me, whatever. And uh, and I I just had no idea. So I didn't want to put on put an ad. I didn't want to do that. I wanted to, I just I wanted to make sure that it was a person that complimented me and that we wouldn't you know be doing this all day. Because it's it's it's talk about this a little bit later because it's a marriage, right? So it's almost a marriage of of because you're together a lot. Um, and so I feel like God just gave me the name Trevor in my head one morning. And I had known Trevor. Trevor grew up, so we built our house in 09. Trevor, you would have been how old? I would have been probably 10 at the time. 10 years old? Yep. Trevor was a 10-year-old neighbor kid uh and and uh lived next door and didn't know you or your family that terribly well. But over the years we've interacted here and there. When Trevor came out of high school, talk about that a bit. So you you uh you graduated high school, then what then what happened after that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so after high school, uh I went on to uh Ivy Tech Community College here, uh just for business administration. Uh and while I was doing that, I was working in Napany uh as uh um my actual title, I think was um I worked for Napany Redevelopment, which is just a small town redevelopment commission, uh doing kind of office admin type stuff. Uh and ironically, you were also involved with that. I kind of always joke that you've kind of assisted in every single job that I've ever got. You also work in my my in-laws' trust shop as well. Yes, I did that too. Yeah, so Trevor, you're welcome. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, so yes, while I was doing that, uh you served on the board uh as a part of the Napany Chamber there. Um so I was doing that, going to college, doing my associate degree for business administration, and then yeah, once I got that done, I needed something full time. So I was just about ready to start my you know search of hey, what do I actually want to do? Yeah. And then I think I get I don't know if he texted me, got an email, something. Yeah. Um and we here we are.
SPEAKER_00It was weird because I I um I mean it it was just crystal clear. I I I knew in a moment that you were the guy and that you would say yes. I would just, it was just that clear it was gonna work out. I felt I think I felt a little bit guilty. I think I was the president of the the chamber at that time. And so I felt like I was pulling you away from the job that we, you know, we'd helped you get there and all that, and made it pretty and and I think Jeff at the time, Jeff Kitts another time was was was really open to the fact that no, I I can't keep Trevor full-time. We shouldn't, we can't afford him on staff all the time. So he needs a full-time role. So um, so yeah, um, we had to figure this all out. So it's I think I think what happened there is I kind of I was a little bit nervous about bringing Trevor on. I would I was like, man, I I don't know how to have an EA. So so again, my friend Len, who's the CEO of a local company here, um uh Micah was currently uh the the EA for Len. And so I I had asked the two of you guys to hook up. And uh so tell me about that a little bit, Micah. So so uh I or Trevor call you about seven years ago and say, hey, could you could you coach um Trevor a bit on on this role that he's gonna take on for me? Talk about that a bit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was kind of interesting. Like even in that in that lunch that we had had with you uh when you were talking with Len, I I remember thinking back of man, I don't I don't know if if Ryan really buys the vision on the EA or not. And so like to to then follow forward, I don't remember if it was if it was Ryan or Trevor, somebody had reached out saying, hey, we'd like to connect. And um kind of the the genesis of that was let's let's meet up. It was kind of a not really an an interview style, but also really just more of a like, I don't know that I was more than a year or so into doing the role. Oh, really? It was that first year. Yeah, it so I was probably maybe a year, year and a half into to the role with Len at that point. And so kind of the the it was kind of the blind leading the blind to some degree, but it was feel like that. Yeah, it but it was it was more than anything of just a little bit of some some peer networking type of thing. And a lot of it was just I I'm a big believer in like when you're when you're going to interview somebody, your your big proponent should be how is this person going to benefit the people that they're around? And how are they gonna provide value to the the people that they're around? And it was pretty clear early on that in just talking with Trevor for a little bit, and we were we were talking about life, we were talking about what the role can look like, that there was a hunger. I mean, he was young, I wasn't much older necessarily. I feel like we're still young, but um there was it was this sweet balance of the tenacity to go after the big thing, but also seemed to have his things down, he was taking notes, lots of awareness for things. So all the all the good signs you would you would think of for somebody who's taking care of somebody else.
SPEAKER_00It's good. So to this day, I kind of ras each of you. I was like, man, who's who's the better EEA? You know, and so man, Micah's really a lot better than Trevor is at this, and and we have we have fun with that. But uh but the the joke today is that is that is that Micah does a better job with my email than Trevor ever did. And he came with some just some it's not that big of a deal, but we'll talk about that a bit later. But uh but managing my email, Trevor and I never really quite figured that out. And and maybe I wasn't enough of a uh maybe I didn't let go enough for Trevor, honestly. Micah came in and said, This is how we're doing it, and I don't know, I don't know how that was. But I want to make it very, very clear that PWI as a company and me personally, my career, we would not be where we're at today without the two of you. I mean, period, no question about it. I was able to get so much more done and build and build build a great company uh over the last seven years, and you know, all glory to God for that. Uh but um but with because of the time, the multiplication of time that I had, and me not diving into all um those details, chasing all those squirrels. So so that that this is this is how we got started. So so let's let's talk about how how we we uh we got we got here. And I want to talk about the maybe the first 90 days here a bit. Um uh maybe cut maybe one thing first is is I want to talk a little bit about why I chose a male uh EA rather than uh you know some some gorgeous woman, right? So um I I am I am I'm very I'm very um this is being very authentic here, very raw here, but I I'm I'm very sensitive to that. I want to make sure I want to make sure that I could live above reproach and not have anybody questioning my morals or my ethics. And there's just so many stories of of things like that going south. And I knew that we would spend a lot of time together. So so I had crossed off, and and honestly, most of a lot of my friends, uh most EAs are females. I I mean it's it is it is yeah, I don't know if it's 90%, but it's it's high. It's very, very high. Very high. You if you if you look at the the books and the podcasts written by you know talking about EAs stuff, it's almost always women and stuff on LinkedIn a lot about that. And so so why did I choose that? Well, I remember I go back to a a conference, a men's conference I was at with Steve Ferrar. Steve Ferrar's passed away, uh speaker, author, incredible mentor of mine. Um, I've got to meet Steve a number of times, but Steve was just an incredible leader, man of God. He he always made the joke, and he had an EA. But uh he said, I and this is a slam, right? He said, but I always I want to challenge you guys, if you ever have an assistant or you have a secretary working in your office, find the most humble-looking, I think he even said the word ugly, uh, uh assistant or EA or secretary you possibly can, because you just do not want to fall into prey of being tempted with something, something that's you know that that leads you down a path you don't want to go. And even people questioning, you know, they're they're a little tight, they're a little close. What is up with that? And so obviously I've been married to my wife Jeanette for uh 20, I think it's 24 years. And so nothing. I want to do nothing to jeopardize that relationship or having people uh look at it. Uh and and even for the for the EA, you know, so this is nothing against uh there's probably a lot of men out there that are stronger than me. And I and if you have a female uh assistant, totally fine. I'm not judging you at all, but I would just recommend, I'm just gonna talk it, talk straight here. If you are looking for an executive assistant, uh, I would get a dude who can be with you all the time, drive with you, go go grab a hotel. So like think about that. I mean, you can we can we can check into a hotel, each get rooms, and and there's nothing weird going on ever, right? It just it always works. So I just uh obviously morals, ethics are a really big deal to me, and and even the appearance of that is is important to me. So um that's why I chose Trevor, and I would never do it, never do it differently. It's not worth it. So man, those um those first 90 days, um let's tell that story, Trevor. So um um let's go back to like 2018, the year before you started. Um I uh I I was building, I was rebuilding my office. We were doing renovations as we have been for the past decade, every year. Uh but I built a new office for myself and I built in this this desk um kind of uh I my office is big enough for two desks and and there's a small desk for an assistant that I built there because this has been brewing in my head, you know, before this time. And uh and I thought to myself, well, this assistant can be, you know, yeah, it he could sit there uh a few hours of the day helping me with some stuff and go back to his own office. And so I always, when I give tours of our facility and our office, I always walk people in my office and talk about that. Um so what happened was Trevor got came to came to work and the office next door. My entire plan had been Trevor gets an office next door, and maybe we'll put a little cute window in there or something that will slide open. I wasn't sure. Um so so I think uh I can't remember who was in that office, but somebody was in that office, it wasn't available for you. But we had to do some other shifting in office space, and so I was waiting for 90 days and said, Trevor, by by Labor Day or whatever that was, um, we'll have you in that office. And so, so um we go through the 90 days, and Trevor's sitting there in my office the entire time, and I was kind of like, man, this is gonna drive me nuts, and like this is kind of annoying. I can't even, you know, I just want to be alone. And I think I think that is important for for a for an assist or for a for a CEO to be alone at times and have some some brain space. But after 90 days, we looked at each other and we said, This is never gonna work. I think Trevor looked at me and said, and he said, You know this is never gonna work if I'm not in your office all the time. Right. Right. Talk about that for a minute, Trevor.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Definitely was not even my thought going into it that that's how it was necessarily gonna end up. Um but yeah, it became very apparent very quickly that like every phone call that you have, I automatically know what you're going to tell me. You don't have to repeat it. Um you can just think out loud and say, hey, we need to write this email to this person. Start writing it this way with these three bullet points. Well, whatever it is, like it's just done. You don't have to text me, you don't have to call me, you don't have to go over to the next door office. Um, if you didn't put the little window in, then you have to walk out the door into the next door. Like all the little things like that just there, I don't see how there would be any other way. Now, uh maybe someone else who has a different working style than you or whatever, yeah, maybe it makes sense, but there was a lot of value that I think would have been a waste if we would not have uh started out that way. So we wouldn't have known. I mean, if that office was uh available right off the right off the bat, then we'd probably still be doing this wrong today, right? Could be, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well I think that sorry, go ahead and mic. Yeah, no, and I would even jump in of when when I was with Len was I I think the same principles applied of I think that there's that there there's a lot of the work that happens with the close proximity that you share with one another. And um, I like the the funny story behind it all is that the entire time that I was uh uh at the company with with Len, I never had an office. So like our our our philosophy was we were I mean we were 30 miles a day in the vehicle just driving around to different buildings and everything, but that entire time, not the entire time we would we would split occasionally to do different things and kind of multiply the work, but it would we would be right next to each other. And so I do think that think that there is an incredible amount of work that gets done with that proximity. Yeah, you can't so good, you can't just jot down and out to then give to somebody to then help them push it to the like you've wasted a lot of your time as a as a leader. It's exactly what I was gonna say, very true.
SPEAKER_00It's exactly what I was gonna say. I I was gonna say we always describe it like by the time, so picture I'm on a phone call, uh Trevor's not sitting there, or Micah's not sitting there, and I'm on a phone call and I'm looking for my calendar, I'm grabbing my phone, and I'm terrible with my calendar, I have no clue what's going on tomorrow. And I'm I'm scrolling through there. And by the time I would have to, I would I would say, look, we'll get back to you on that, on that date, on that, on that, you know, or and we'll send you an email about that, or I'll forward that that uh PDF to you this afternoon. By the time you stand up from your office, walk across to the next office over, tell Micah what he should be doing about that, and he's like, Who who were you on the phone with? There's so much translation lost there. Bob Who? He he he wants which PDF. And and you know, when when Trevor was over there just working on his desk, he was overhearing everything. He was he was finding the PDF that I was referring to while I was on the phone call. He had the draft started before my phone call hung up because he knew exactly. He could just, you can just by the way, he scheduled the phone call that I'm on. So he knew who I was with and talking to. And so uh you're right, that so much is lost in translation without being in close proximity together. And so, like we always said, like it just feel it felt almost pathetic to even why why even give the work to the EA and the time to walk over there and explain it all. I could I probably could have just done it myself. That's so so the time savings is like it's it's like all or nothing. I would so I would just I would make it very, very clear. Like, if you're gonna do this, go all in. Go all in. And trust me, you get used to having a dude sitting in your office or riding in the car with you. You just get used to it. So, Mark, is the silence after two months isn't even awkward. Like you're just we're just both working. It was awkward for two months, three months. I was already used to it with you, Micah. It didn't even, you know, uh didn't even affect me at all. I was like, let's go.
SPEAKER_03Um it's probably more awkward for Micah because you didn't have an office. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well put. What are we doing? So I'm not there's no steering wheel here. Yeah, so uh his old boss, Len, crazy, crazy, crazy wild man Len, a good friend of mine. But he uh yeah, I don't believe he ever had an office really either. No, he moved around, he was a gypsy, moved around from place to place. I think you guys had like seven plants, yeah. And so moved around different places, uh, hopped into a conference room for a little while, did this or that or the other, had a meeting, moved, kept moving. And there's some probably some things I could learn from that, you know. But I I I do feel necessary, like it's it's it's it's good to be in my office and get the work done. Send off those emails, help, help the team out, support with with, you know. So I'm a bit different uh mindset uh than Len on that. But that's that's totally fine. So let's jump into okay, what in the heck does an EA do? I mean, what what what what do you guys do? And and what what are the main functions? Let's maybe just tag team here a bit. What's the what would you say, Mike? I'll go to you first on this one here. Micah, what is the number one function that you think an EA is doing? What what is your what is your thought there?
SPEAKER_02Sure. I would say fundamentally, I always need to come back to the idea of what allows Ryan as the the executive that I'm working with, what allows him the clearest path to get to the most important things in the business. And so when when Ryan is the the the giant standing above the trees looking looking beyond where we're going, that's that's important. But if he doesn't have somebody looking beneath the trees, making sure we're not gonna step over a cliff, then we can have a problem. And so I think fundamentally I I come back to what are ways that I can bring bring some things pushed a little bit further to the finish line or cross them off so that Ryan doesn't even need to take the the energy or the time to be able to work on those. And sometimes there are there are things that there's some overlap of hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna do this portion, you're gonna do this portion. But but also there there is a multiplication effect that can happen of you know we get we get twice as much done.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um you know, whether that's giving you the the fresh, freshly sorted through set of emails that those are the only ones you need to worry about. Um taking care of things that I know that I can take care of that you don't even have to give mind calories to. You know, it's it it's it's always looking for ways that we can find synergies and push things further along.
SPEAKER_00So talk about how you do that. Um the thing that Trevor and I never really figured out. What how are you how are you managing my emails? How are you doing that?
SPEAKER_02Sure. Um yeah, it's it's this it's this fancy system they they put in in all of them, they call a star or a flag. Um no, but ultimately what what I like to do is I take the the macro level of of all the the emails and the and the inputs that are coming in and get that down to the the ones that are actually providing value for for for Ryan. Right. And so um obviously there's there's never an end to the the spam folder and the the different things that just pop up into a an inbox and it's like obviously you you unsubscribe to things, you you get things pushed along, but also on on the other side of that, of there are some things that pop up that are items that don't really deserve all of Ryan's attention right away. And love you, brother, but like a a shiny thing can can pull you pull your afternoon. And so my and it does sometimes, let's be honest. Yeah, and it's and some and and and there's a balance in that of you're you're looking for the most important things in the business, and sometimes those things will pop up and and it can be a surprise that it's you know that this becomes a big thing, and ultimately. Personally, I want to go through and provide you with the clearest path to strike off things, but you can devote the majority of your time towards five years down the road, looking around corners, seeing things ahead of the curve. It's really what it comes down to.
SPEAKER_00It's good. Very, very, very, very well said. Um, I want to go back before we keep moving here, what about what an EA does uh for a for an executive. Um, let's go back to the proximity thing. I just want to I missed this earlier, but uh a lot of people are using like belay or virtual assistant uh deals. I think belay is a fantastic company. I I love them, I've met them, they're people, they're awesome. But I I had I had literally looked at a belay assistant, which is a a virtual assistant who probably uh works from Texas or Colorado, whatever, and they probably have three CEOs that they're working with, and you get about a third of their time. That's why the price is pretty affordable. Uh so I just want to throw that out there. If you're considering that, um love belay, and I think there's things they do, other fractional things they're doing, but for an assistant role, I would really struggle with that. And I I think we are very grateful. I've had some friends that have done it for a while, it was okay, and they ended up walking away from it because just they weren't there. They the proximity thing was a problem uh in in real time for a lot of my friends. So, anyhow, just want to throw that out there. Um again, no bash on Belay or other people that are doing that, but I believe that having a person in the room with you is is super, super, super helpful. So thank you for that, Micah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. One more thing I would throw in there as well is even like there's I I would throw out that it's kind of a thorny thing out there is well, what is AI gonna do to that?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02And ultimately, I would say yes, an EA's job is affected by by AI. And every single job out there is gonna be affected by AI. And so ultimately, what are we using to better ourselves? I think EAs have a really great opportunity to be ahead of the curve and getting productivity tools that we can find through that. And um, how can we lean into that versus saying that um I mean ultimately I'm my own job security? I have to be able to put put forward the value that is that is created. And so I think leaning in on that would be something I'd really encourage EAs to look into.
SPEAKER_00Well, is it a I have I have down here later on uh in my head I was I was gonna talk about tech a bit, and and so I man, you brought that up. I just think we should just let's just we're chasing a squirrel here anyhow. We're good at that chasing squirrel. So let's chase a squirrel a little bit down the path here. Um so I I I disagree with that with that theory that that that and and maybe people are asking that right now. AI, I already have AI, I don't need an EA. Um AI, EA. So I I would argue, I would say that we're both going to get a lot more productive using AI. Agreed. Use the tools. So now now if if if if Micah is doubling my capacity and my productivity, let's triple it now. Now we have AI, we're both using it. He's just a lot faster at helping me get stuff done. I'm faster at what I'm doing as well. Uh, dude, I still need you. I I don't understand. Uh I see no future where I don't need help getting the work done. Somebody still has to do this or do that or send the email and and talk through dialogue through how we're gonna handle my calendar. Like, I don't want to talk to AI about that.
SPEAKER_03Right. Trevor, what do you think about that? Even just like take the simple example of meeting minutes. So, like everything can be recorded now and recapped, summarized, transcript, all that stuff. And like, even the time that that would save you as an assistant, going from you know, two hours to okay, I just took all these notes in the meeting, I gotta gather my thoughts and put it all on paper. Like it's now 90% there, and now you're tweaking it. So instead of spending two hours a week doing your your leadership meeting minutes, you're now 15 minutes and you're good to go. It's like even the value that now uh each week, Micah now has an hour and 45 minutes more to do something that you need him to do, like that that theory.
SPEAKER_00I think you just hit number two of what I would say an EA is very, very uh good at. And that's and that's sitting into every meeting, not just executive meetings, which which you guys have both done for years, is sit through and and take the minutes of that. Now we have AI to help us with that. But um, so there's seven people on our executive team, um, and uh you guys are number eight on that team sitting there uh taking minutes, taking notes. Uh, not a whole lot of input in the meetings. We made that very clear when I hired Trevor that you know you're not an executive. I you know, your your role is to is to be there and listen and take notes and and and really serve the needs of the executive team and especially me uh as your boss. So uh participate when asked. Participate when asked. Very well said. So uh, but that's a really big deal because uh executives or CEOs especially are are infamous for saying things, saying things they're gonna do and then never do them. Um, and so I I would I I think what Trevor helped me uh accomplish when he came on was to keep my promises. And and and I I I love sitting in a meeting without having to mess a lot with my notes and my iPad. I I always have it with me. I can do that, but I'd rather just think about what we're talking about. And when it's all said and done, there's a calendar invite set for the next meeting, there's an email draft going out doing what I promised. There's a there's a follow-up with another team member or a vendor or whatever. It's it's just it's nonstop. So those balls are all moving as we're walking out of the meeting because because Micah or Trevor were have been sitting there preparing that process as we go. So we had email sorting, Micah. Thanks for bringing that up. Very, very well done. And honestly, I am in that world today. I I I am I'm living. Where's my phone at here? I'm living in my flagged email inbox here. I live in that. I um uh you were off for two weeks. Micah just had a his second child. Congratulations, man. And Trevor, I mean, you guys are like 10 days almost. Yeah, and Trevor's like a week or two away from his number two as well. So uh man, they're like you know, Siamese twins here. So I think even our our firstborns were like within a month of each other, something like that. Yeah, crazy. So it's it's awesome. Yeah, exciting. Went to see your your baby last last Thursday night. That was that was fantastic, man. So it's great, cute, cute kids. Uh and Trevor's Trevor's little daughter's adorable as well. So um, yeah. Um, so um we hit we hit email, we hit uh meeting management and note minute taking and follow follow-up after the meeting. Huge, huge stuff. Trevor, uh, talk about calendar management. Because that that's that's the I would say that's that's you know, close, you know, running for a close second there as far as importance. Yeah. Uh and talk about how you help me with that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I think one thing that um we put together fairly quickly, especially this goes back to the proximity thing, but like, yes, you have your digital Google calendar or Outlook, whatever it is, uh that you're managing on, but you personally also kind of thrive off of a big gigantic desk calendar that it just has the month.
SPEAKER_00And make you calling me old now, is what you're doing, man. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I never said that. Um the cheaters on yet. Yeah, we go. So, like just the concept of you know, starting out the week, just take 10 minutes at the beginning of the day and walk through okay, what's this week look like? Oh shoot, that's not gonna work. Now I have three more things I need to change because XYZ came up. Um, and being able to, I think I think it's crucial for the EA to be able to just automatically know without looking what what's the next couple days look like. Maybe I don't know what the whole month is, yeah, but being able to off the cuff be like, oh yeah, this is tomorrow. Uh you just promised that lunch, that's not gonna work because you're on vacation that week. Like, yeah, just knowing the the general, you know, what's happening and being able to give that answer quickly, especially when you're in the same office, and being able to say, No, don't promise that while you're on the phone call. Yeah, um is is key.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's been lots of waving hands, but do not do not go Tuesday like next night. I'm like, I was I'm getting ready to say, Oh, yeah, because we're infamous for saying, Oh, sure, we can probably do that. Lunch tomorrow, that song's fantastic. You're like, no, man. Yeah, you know, today we leave here and we do a new hire lunch with all the new uh new hires, and so and and I'm gonna offer a lunch with somebody and like no that's not and I honestly don't remember. Like I I and I think that's intentional. I I don't I actually do not worry about it. And and I think that's a really big deal when when when the EA is managing your calendar, the brain sprays that that feels up to not worry about what's happening tomorrow. Um, like I don't know, I do not know what my meetings are tomorrow. I have no clue. I I I can't tell you what they are. And I was I was hoping. And that's good. It's it's good, right?
SPEAKER_03You need to be like that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I think you're I think you're onto something there. I I think I I think we're very visual as CEOs, and I and I do live by my calendar. Uh we're on Microsoft now, so we're using Microsoft. We just switched over from Google to Microsoft. Doesn't matter which one you're using, but but I do like I have the old desk, I've had it for 25 years, 30 years. The old desk pad, we got them for free from from vendors over the years, right? But I think we order from Staples now, but just a simple desk pad. And and usually when I get back to my office from the last meeting, Michael will have kind of the next couple days figured out for next week or whatever, and I'll have the next week kind of pencil out. It just lets me see in one shot. I feel like all the digital calendars do a terrible job of giving you a actual visual the whole week with so you can legibly read what each thing is. And so I feel like I the big things each day are in there. Like, oh yeah, that's I can get ready for that. And he's like, Yeah, I that's why I have schedules for read for tomorrow to prepare for that meeting or whatever. By the way, I'm working for a PowerPoint for that for that deal on Thursday. Okay, gotcha. Now I can I can just we're all good, it's all good. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03The the two other things I'd say on calendar, which you just hit on, is schedule time for prep. Like, don't just schedule your two o'clock meeting. Yes, schedule from 1.30 to 2 for prep leading up to that meeting. So, like, if anything go a little bit above what you think you might need, because most likely it probably's not even gonna happen because you're running 10 minutes late from the other meeting. Give yourself the buffer time rather than trying to cut it too close because something's gonna get cut. And if at all possible, you don't want that to be prep. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, and and to some degree, it's like like you may look at that and say, Well, no, you're just confining my time, but no, you're actually freeing it. Right. Like you give yourself the boundaries of I can do whatever dreaming I want and cast vision, do all the things, but I know that when I'm approaching that half an hour before, that's that's reserved time. And so you you know you're hard stop.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, and then the other thing I would say about uh calendar, the last part of that is uh video conference or video call. Um there's always the infamous person that doesn't have the the mic set up or the camera set up configured as you join a meeting. 100% and don't let the CEO or whoever you're being an EA for be that person. So like pulling up the calendar, clicking the link ahead of time, joining in, even though it should all be set as the default, you know, webcam and microphone. Weird things happen, updates happen. Uh sometimes at really bad times updates happen. Um and just prep for that five minutes before we'll save just chaos during the start of a meeting too.
SPEAKER_00So 100%. Uh generally I'll go use the restroom real quickly or something, or jump out, huddle with somebody real quickly while Mike is setting up, you know, my my uh my team's meeting for the next for the next meeting, and and I'll come back, jumped on, the lights on, the everything's ready to go, and and I, you know, it's it's it's live. And so um it just it's just more little things. And let's just be honest. I we I I suck at technology. I mean, I I I use it every day, but I'm just not good at it. And and so, and maybe there again that's okay because I have somebody else that can that can do it for me and worry about those things, but uh it it never really quite works for me. I think I figured out I did one meet uh uh Teams call without you while you were gone. I think Trevor helped me with another one and I was like, yeah, I got this. So uh but it's always like some the mic, I have multiple speakers, so the the mic flips or the speaker flips and he can't see me. And the and I I I don't know, it just feels like it's always something, right? So uh and these guys just do it every day. It's not it's not a big deal. So so uh yeah, I um very grateful for all you guys have done for me on the calendar because I I do feel like it it's freed up my time, my space, my life. And I want to dive into before I leave the calendar world. Like I I don't think there should be guilt around that I you know I have business partners that are obviously um um listen to this, and and my brothers Darren and Kyle, who are my guests often here. Um I want to be sensitive to the fact that I I owe I owe um 100% to the company while I'm here, I'm working, and and so does my EA's time. Um but it it is fair and good, I believe, for the EA to do some personal work for me as well, meaning on the on the in the calendar area. Okay. Uh try to be very conscientious about that. But but Micah does my entire calendar, personally, business, everything. And he copies my wife on on stuff because otherwise, uh there's conflicts all the time. There's a dinner event, and so you can't really separate the two worlds. And and there's a dinner event there that night, but I have a prayer meeting in my church that night, so I can't do that. So we'll flip it over to this year evening, whatever that is. And so, or I'm promising dinner with dinner with with one of the executives for you know for dinner, uh, or or a or a out-of-town person coming in, and my wife thought we were gonna do something with her family. Like, you can't separate the two worlds. And so we I've I've stopped trying. And so Micah runs my entire calendar, personal and business, and he copies my wife on on those on those calendar invites. Uh, we have a group chat between the three of us where can she can drop in, and it sounds pathetic, but she can jump, jump in and put a put a hey, uh, is Ryan free that night? Uh we were invited to dinner with some friends or whatever. And Micah goes, Yeah, it's that's that's good, that works. And you know, he's in a meeting right now, but I'll double check that he wants to go to go do that. Um, and and I come out and like, thumbs up, all I gotta do is a thumbs up, and we're good. And I know it works. And it sounds um, yeah, I I want to be careful because I I have I have a lot of very good friends, and I don't really want um I want to be I want to be approachable and and uh accessible by my friends, right? But there's a lot of people that aren't really my close friends who are trying to get to my time and onto my calendar like a lot. Um how many names are on my my iPad list right now? People just that just want to connect with lunch and and do something and hang out and and spend an hour with me. And and that sounds arrogant. That's not what I'm saying. It's just hard. It's hard to keep up with all the demands, you know, vendors, customers, friends, other business owners. And and and I I love those actually, I can do that all day. I I love that. I just that's not my job. And my job is to also run the company, right?
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, and I I would definitely, definitely, definitely that you hit on a really good point that I think a lot of people get focused on the whole time management side of things, but ultimately, I think an EA provides a tremendous amount of value on the energy management side of things for you as well, because ultimately you can play time Tetris all you want and figure out how to scrunch everything in there, but there's certain there's a certain connectedness that you feel with your executive that you can start to recognize of like, hey, this person love them, but they probably won't give you the best energy the rest of the day. Or this this meeting needs to have a lot of energy put into it before before or after it. And so I think that there's tremendous value of understanding that it will take a little bit of time to get to that understanding with one another. Yeah, but there's a tremendous amount of value that can come from being able to understand not just the time aspects, but where is your energy going to be best? Because then also we go home and we play with our kids at night, like we we hang out with our families. And if you are just coming home every single day drained, yeah, then I'm probably doing something wrong. Yeah. I mean, we we want to work hard, but we also want to be able to make sure that our energy is spent where it where it needs to be.
SPEAKER_03One of the things I think that we talked through, I it maybe took us a little while to get there, but what does Ryan's ideal weekly schedule look like? I think that is really big, especially if you're just starting with an assistant. Like tell me what you would prefer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And uh, hey, I don't want Tuesday afternoons to have anything so that I can just do whatever I need to. Which is gonna be other stuff. Okay, I don't yeah, if you start to do it. But my Tuesdays are still blocked out, Michael, right? Yeah, call it vision afternoon. Yeah, okay, cool. Yep. So you can go to a coffee shop, you can stay in your office if it's you know, whatever you want to do, you have that space. And you know, preference of you don't have to think through should I schedule a lunch on Monday or Wednesday, Thursday? Like, no, hey, typically I schedule lunches on these days of the week. Maybe that's Monday or Thursday. Right. And just having the freedom so that I I think that's freedom for the EA to know, like, oh sweet, now I know how I can schedule a calendar. Yeah um, and I can say no a lot easier to, which will then help with the energy thing uh that you were just saying. Yeah, so it's really good.
SPEAKER_00I I think um I think Mike and I butted heads a little bit about this when he first started. I mean, in in a good way. So we're being raw, right? Um, I um and I I felt a bit like he was letting people into my world that I probably wouldn't have quite that's not I'm trying so hard not to be arrogant. That's not what I'm doing. I'm just saying things are moving so fast. I uh my team needs me, the company needs me, I am running hard, and all of a sudden there's a lunch that popped up with some dude that I don't even know. And and that that was so we had to like, yeah, did I approve that? And honestly, I probably did. And so, and so it I'm not even blaming him. We have to just agree on on like what is what's what's a what's a for sure thumbs up, yes, we're doing lunch with that guy, or yes, he's gonna come through for a tour. Who's this guy again? Uh he wants to sell you a paint, like whatever, like that in the middle of, I mean, the the the sky is falling, and and we're we have real issues to that. I don't want to give some dude you know a tour that I don't even know. That's uh again, um this, you know, to our listeners, to our to our to our our followers here, I again humility first, it's all good. I love connecting with other people, um, and I I truly love it, but that isn't always the most important thing to do. And so there's times we've had to cancel some meetings, and and we we just I think we've gotten a little more in line with saying, hey, these are the couple people that were that that that we want to get in the next couple weeks. Uh you've put them off once or twice, let's get these done. And that's what we do. So um, and and always build great relationships then, but you can't do that every day. Uh there's that book called uh Never Eat Lunch Alone. And I and I I I would I would love to have it that way. And and I I I don't often eat lunch alone, but every now and then you need some space and some margin to get stuff done. And so which leads me to the next uh next point here. And I think I think and I'm just gonna throw this out here and you guys can can I let whoever wants to answer this go for go for it. But the term gatekeeper, I think you guys, in many ways, are the gatekeeper uh to my calendar, uh the gatekeeper to time with me. And that even includes uh that even includes you know PWI people, okay? And so uh and I again always want to be accessible. There's this whole thing about being an open door policy, and that's fine. Uh, but there's a time where that just doesn't work. Um you cannot get to work done. The mission will not move forward if I it's just it's a free-for-all, and and Ryan's door is wide open and there's every guy in his, you know, every from every department coming through there and chatting about everything. It just doesn't work. Uh, I have I have an agreement with my executives and with my direct reports because they work for me. They can come any in any time. And even they often will honor my time enough to say, hey Micah, when's Ryan's free when's Ryan free tomorrow? I need I need an hour. I need I need half an hour. And and and we do that. I have also told them that I'm accessible. Like if I'm I I I do care for my, I can't care for 225 employees uh or or the or their problems, but I can I can care for my seven for sure. Uh and so um I I think we've done a good job. We've tried to do a good job of of being accessible, yet you guys being the gatekeeper of my time. So talk about that a bit a bit more. How do how do we do that without uh seeming um um aloof or or um um arrogant, whatever that is with with my time, yet protecting it uh with phone calls, with people in the lobby wanting to meet with me. How do you all do that? What's the right way to do that? What are some things we've maybe learned from that?
SPEAKER_03I'll I'll start here. Go for it. Uh my first thought is you know, a lot of times the easiest one to think of is someone comes in uh the lobby saying, Hey, is Ryan available? Well, receptionist is also trained that, okay, don't just give them to Ryan or don't just, you know, see Micah, for example, here and let him decide what to happen. And a lot of times that's Micah might be going down and talk with him, right? Um and saying, Hey, what are you here for? What do you need? Is there something I can answer? Like be that type of have that type of mentality going into it and not just nope, he can't talk right now, sorry, and then shut the door. It's a what what do you what are you looking to talk with him about? Like get as much information as you possibly can and say, Okay, uh now's not a really good time. He's in the min another meeting or prepping, whatever that looks like, but let me add this to the calendar and we'll talk about this soon. Like people understand that and I think that just having that attitude going into it goes a long way too. It does. So it does.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I I would I yeah, that was really good. I I would I would say as well that um what one of the things that was really emphasized um for my previous employer uh was just this idea of people, processes, and things in that order. And so like ultimately when you're telling somebody no to their to the the time request, you're still you still ultimately need to go into that with the respect of this is a human being who has either either has a job to you know, feed their family with whatever they're asking for, or they have a they have a thought in their mind, or they just genuinely like the time with Ryan or with with whoever at PWI. And so it's like you respect them as a person. But ultimately we do have processes in place to be able to make sure that people are still getting their work done. And I think anybody can understand that of the the unannounced stopby will will probably never cease uh to exist as long as they're a door-to-door salesman knocking on doors and and doing all that but but but then you you follow it up with you know how can how can we how can we you know move past this of this is this is somebody who's who's res who's wanting some time we want to respect them respect Ryan respect the the receptionists um do it with love and and understand that there's some there's some under there there's some circumstances where we're not right now is the is the best answer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah great answers I I I can't really add much to that well said well said so there's this you know with our with our values we we want to treat treat everybody like a human we want to we want to do all that and yet we have to stay focused we're on a crusade we're on a mission and and there's that fine line to dance is is there a is there a time for me to go down and talk to a dad in the lobby whose kids in in 4 H and wants a donation there's a time for that um can I do that every day can I do that every week no I can't I can't but that's a typical request that comes in we have hey there's something in the lobby here there's you know and so um and many times Mike can do go down he's fantastic at at treating people like humans very much so um and and saying hey look Ryan's Ryan's really tied up right now but man let me get this to him and and we can do a nice email back to them and say hey we'd love to support your your kid or whatever. So uh actually our rule total rabbit trail squirrel here is that we don't actually sponsor 4 H stuff except for our own our own team members because that's a big enough deal by itself. So uh for those of you who are looking to get 4-H sponsors go somewhere else unless you work at PBUI we probably won't sponsor your kid in 4 H but um employees of of PBUI we we do that and and love love what that does for families. So man so that's the gatekeeper conversation protecting the CEO's time it's a really really big deal.
SPEAKER_03Well and even let's take that one step further of like you get a call on your cell phone.
SPEAKER_02Yeah um and it might be uh another executive but you're also in a meeting right now well let's at least get the middle ground and have Micah answer that and say hey Ryan's in a meeting what's up I'll tell him what what you want to know in this email or in this phone call as soon as he gets out of the meeting but like being proactive and trying to even stay a step ahead and saying okay Trevor needs to talk with Ryan after he's done with this meeting you already know what it's about yeah you can then relay that to Ryan he has time to think about it before just the little things like that even can make a a big difference on the the energy side of things it's there are some times where where that call happens from from somebody is is calling from within the organization and you're like oh no what it what is this what's burning down yeah and it ends up being that it's a conversation of dude we just crushed this huge sale or you won't believe what my kid did last night I just wanted to call you up and say but ultimately the executive is focused on something really important in that moment and though they would still see that as important to be able to do that is it worth the trade off in that moment and so right in in taking that phone call there can be a middle ground of respecting the space that the person who you're with is is is receiving that's but also give it giving balance to the next conversation that's coming.
SPEAKER_00I'm really I'm really psycho about that I I I I do not like and I know I I break the rule but I do feel like there's a there's there's a really really high bar for for for interrupting a person sitting in my office that I'm meeting with or in a room and say and chasing a squirrel with a phone call. I I just think that's super disrespectful. I'm I'm pretty big on phones being down upside down when you're in a meeting um and so so so what I'll do sometimes the phones ring I might glance at and hand it to Micah and he might run outside of the of the of the conference room or or the my office or whatever and take the call and say hey look Ryan's tied up 10 minutes he'll be done and I'll call you right back you know emergency uh whatever it might that that might be um and so I do try to I try to honor that I did get rid of my Apple watch no more apple watch so I'm not distracted as much in meetings but uh but yeah um so what one last function of of a of an EA and we got to keep the ball moving here uh this is great conversation this is so good I'm hope we're I think we're adding a lot of value to to our listeners and and again this is a I know this is an interesting topic for a lot of people and and a lot of people can't get over that hump like I like I couldn't for for many years. So driver so we're we're here in the Amish community right so the joke I always make is is uh the Amish people have to figure out more than what we do because they have a they hire a driver to drive them around the Amish business owners and uh they have a driver that drives them around and go to different job sites that you know the contractors the you know exciting guys whatever they do they you know they have Bob the uh the driver that drives them around everywhere and so so we started doing that a lot as well with both with both of you guys and it's been um you know heading to a meeting I I'm driving 45 minutes to a meeting or Micah can drive and I'm I'm responding to emails and making phone calls and doing things. I mean we literally schedule calls on drives up we just did one today. I have a call on the way back from the studio here back to the office this after this afternoon or at noon when I hit when I drive back for the next meeting there's a call scheduled between now and then so why not? I'm driving 22 minutes I have time why not call so we so Mike already set that up so um so fantastic. So just how does that feel to you guys to be an Amish driver right how does how does that feel to you guys it's a real honor. It's a real there is no higher honor.
SPEAKER_02No I like personally I love driving and so like I'm gonna do it anyways but I I think it's gonna beat the horse dead but like it's best use of your time and energy because I mean we can I mean I I love talking to you and we we can talk about all sorts of things in the sports and the the the weekend and all those things but if you can utilize that time effectively so that we can hit the ground running when we get back into the office that's yeah that's a lot of value add.
SPEAKER_00It it really is. Yeah it really is so let's dive into the next thing uh the next thing that's important to me is this myth of of how do I keep an EA busy that was a big thing that hit that that really bothered me when I started this thing I um like it wasn't gonna help me if I had to worry about keeping you guys busy. Right. So I I had this I had this this overshadowing concern like because we're again we're on a mission we're on a crusade we're going somewhere everybody works hard we have a sense of urgency all those things um and I don't like seeing anybody stand around like I'm paying a good salary um um my good makes good money I think I pay I treat you all right and Trevor I've treated you all right whatever I try so uh I'm looking for some accolades there no I'm kidding uh so but we we do pay a fair wage I don't want Braxton the producer sitting around twiddling his thumbs all day right I want him to producing videos and doing content right that's that's what we're we we all work hard here. So this whole thing was like I I don't want my EA sitting there at his desk waiting for me to say hey would you get me a coffee you know or waiting for me to you know take another phone call so we can have something to do. So that was that really it really bothered me. And I so we so in both cases both with Trevor when Trevor started and with Micah we have this I set up this backlog of work that's coming from from another department okay um this might sound weird to our listeners but uh in your case it was marketing. Micah we have some other things that you're doing I think helping you now with some things. So um the idea is there's this grade level B or C tasks that need to be done. No rush but it'd be nice if we would build this if we would organize these files if we would do this here if we would edit some videos over whatever those things are that I never have to worry about keeping you all busy. It's not my problem you guys stay busy on your own. It's probably I don't know 80, 20 what would you guys say? 80% you're doing EA work you're doing work with my calendar emails you're you're you're helping me maybe maybe not even 20%.
SPEAKER_02Yeah what how would you guys feel about that what's that ratio I I I feel like it ultimately when when you're in office it's it's pretty difficult a lot of times to pull away and and do some of the backlog things just because love it brother but it's you I'm not saying you're needy but no I no it's just there there's lots of there's lots of in the moment things that are probably more important than a backlog list. And so you're not bored is that what you're saying I'm not bored I love it. Yeah um I I think that there's there are some times when it's like I mean you you you went on a long vacation earlier this year and so that was a great example of a time where it's like hey I can help out Trevor and his team and some of that stuff. Yeah. So I think it it kind of ebbs and flows. You know there are there are some moments where it's just you dig into those but ultimately I'm I'm reporting directly to you and so I'm gonna provide as much value there and then the additional time I'm gonna make sure that we can help help as many people as we can. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think kind of the key to the the fallback work is not urgent work. Yes. Because it is unpredictable of hey sorry my boss needs me I can't do this for a different department or or whatever. So like when I started I I was in I I had some marketing experience prior to this so I was helping do videos and that kind of stuff and like yeah that was a good fallback. And there wasn't really a big rush for getting this done. Yeah it was just like it needs done but yeah whenever works and the current marketing department at that time didn't have capacity. So it's like okay great I'm glad I can step in yeah there's I'll guarantee you there's some department within your company that can use help yes that this person could do.
SPEAKER_00Non-urgent help non-urgent help yes very good very good answer I love that uh so yeah we don't want an idle EA we don't we don't we don't want that we don't we don't need that but uh give give me a give me a give me an honest number what's what's is it is it less than 10% of of time that needs to be burned up sometimes with with with um with non-urgent things for somebody else is it below 10% I I would say like there are some times where there there are the peaks of an extended vacation where it throws the anomaly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah but I I would say it's it's a it's a lower percentage.
SPEAKER_03Yeah yeah 10 probably not higher.
SPEAKER_00Okay very good unless you're gone yeah okay let's let's dive into um how y'all are wired okay uh different than me okay I'm a screaming high di 9999 di on the disc profile I'm a galvanizing inventor on the working genius assessment uh you guys are not that so so tell tell me a little bit Trevor I'll start with you on this one tell me a little bit who you are as a person on the disc profile how you're wired and how that's different than me.
SPEAKER_03I think it's interesting because as a company we didn't start the disc profile assessment till after I came on board. Probably because you helped me get it done. Oh that's probably true. I think yeah we wait a minute we kicked that one off but but I'm literally the exact opposite so I am SC, my D and I aren't too high. I mean they're yeah anyways so I'm the exact opposite on the disc and uh I my genius is your frustration so mine is wonder and tenacity for my genius and you could care about that less. Yes. Uh so couldn't care about that less couldn't care about that less yes so it's just the perfect combination. I mean you don't want to have to focus on the details and I get upset if I can't focus on the details. Yeah. So that is a crucial aspect especially as you're you know trying to figure out who this person is like you probably don't want to duplicate yourself. 100% I think I'll kill each other.
SPEAKER_00I mean you might which you want well you know my brothers and I, you know we're we're we're wired the same and I would not want one of them one of them to be my my assistant. Of course that would never ever work.
SPEAKER_02So yeah love that so what it uh so Micah in in that you're very similar um the to Trevor on the on the disc and and working genius when I go chase squirrels because that's who who I am how how do you handle that Micah yeah it it it's really funny because like even on our uh around the office uh every every door has has a plaque for the person who's in there for their name their responsibility and their their disc and and widget profile and Ryan 100% D and I and then Trevor and I are both in that like 100% SC type of range and I would say that it's because because we're we're we're I don't I don't even know what the word is but we're wired a little bit differently it's not that we get half as much done it's that we each are really hyper focused on the way in which we get the job done. Amen and so ultimately because I there's something inside me for whatever reason when you strike something off a to-do list it's like there's like this angelic choir and like a pause you know and I don't know what it is but it there's something satisfying in that and the way your mind operates is if we can just keep you know keep the ideas flowing but like it's not that that I'm wrong or you're right or vice versa. It's ultimately we get to find all the things that are out there and we can go attack those things and we can bring value to the marketplace. Like it's it's really good.
SPEAKER_03The other aspect that brings is just even before maybe you'd present something in a meeting you have a completely different perspective that you wouldn't have thought of so like as you're prepping and running hey what do you think about this like that that's already a completely different angle so it might change yes just through conversation of how you might present something in a meeting between the the CEO and the A.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah 100% I think there's a balanced view of me going into a meeting or situation because maybe uh you know you're helping me figure that out or draft an email whatever that was or draft an agenda that was just already a little a bit a bit tweaked from from just Ryan's high di right so and if you guys don't know the disc profile uh google it it's it's it's it's everywhere we we we like both we think working genius from Pat Lancioni is is genius literally literally and uh the strengths of why you you're good at your role you know in and you're in the role that God's given you um and the DI is a little more a little more diving in the nuances of of who you are as a person. So yeah um so one last thing on on the chasing squirrels thing is that uh one idea that we came up with I don't I don't even know if it was somebody else somebody else's idea possibly but we came up with the idea parking lot Ryan's idea parking lot and what what happens there is is I have I have a new idea every I don't know I say seven minutes but probably less than that. I'm I'm getting ideas during this podcast of things we could be doing differently and and uh you know so um but there there comes a time you know and those ideas half of them are just completely crap they're just they're no good I mean they're they're not good probably less than half I like to say half but uh because I'm making myself feel good right so but a big chunk of them will never happen there's a chunk of them that do and so what what what Trevor started doing what Mike is doing now is that we're we're throwing those onto an idea parking lot. And it's we use the technology Trello we'll we'll talk about that towards the end here. But basically we're just writing it down and so it's out of my mind I know I won't lose the idea it's a really really good one for right now and tomorrow morning will be two more so so we'll put that down and I'll scroll through those periodically I just did it recently again scrolled through and then deleted a few that I knew were junk and moved some others to the top I sorted them up to the top that one there's still a good idea. We're gonna do that someday. And eventually we get to it and eventually in some meeting sitting somewhere like I've been thinking about that for a long time the time is now and so that's that's an important uh thing that we started doing just want to throw that out there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah that's a good idea.
SPEAKER_00Yep yeah so honesty with each other I I call this I call this a marriage right and in many ways it is I mean you guys are nature a lot like my my wife so that's not making that weird or creepy at all but but it is that way my wife and I get along because they're a lot like you and they're opposite she's opposite of me. And uh so so talk about that a minute. Honesty with each other. Uh Trevor what are some of those uh Mike and we're we're still pretty new uh we're eight months in is that close yeah sure uh uh what are some of those early honest conversations anything come to your mind uh trevor that we had to have between you and me just honesty about what what was working what's not um my bad breath I I don't know whatever whatever that is of note always bring or have gum or mints on you so you can uh hang them to you before you go into a meeting very good side note that's a very very good yes the yeah honesty I I mean there's a couple different ways you can approach it for for us it was you know we had very frank conversations right as I was starting of you are going to see things that only me and my wife have seen it's a it's maybe it's a you know personal banking thing maybe it's a social security number like it's you're gonna get all of that information I wouldn't I think I would encourage CEOs to go that far even though that that's a scary step because that's where you're truly going to gain the efficiency at um but it's just the understanding of you you have to trust this person that you're hiring as your your EA um and have I don't I don't know exactly what that test looks like.
SPEAKER_03You know for you a name popped into the head and it it worked out well for me stepping in that role.
SPEAKER_00But um don't don't uh you know cut short on doing the due diligence of what's this person actually like integrity a hundred percent and and um I I this I this thought about um complete integrity with you and trusting you and and and I think one of the things we discussed was again uh we were talking about you know one of the podcasts we shot just uh a week or ago was was my brothers and I and how we don't how we don't kill each other right in in in the business and and and so there's a lot of things you hear um I think I'll say it this way there's a lot of things you hear that my executives don't even hear. Micah Trevor both of you guys uh you're hearing in and even if it's not a disagreement between between partners and I and and we're something that gets heated we're working we're wrestling through something that's difficult uh there's things that you guys hear that my executives or my partners never even hear about I'm wrestling through how to deal with this problem. Micah you and I are dealing with things right now we're trying to figure out how to wrestle with with with the org chart and twisting things around to make it work because we what got us to here isn't going to get us to there. Again, Micah you start you talked about being five years out I am I'm trying to be five years out I usually am I'm trying to see well that's not going to get us to where we want to go and that takes a lot of like hey what if and what if what if we what if we drag this guy over to here and and some of those they just can't be released yet because I I just don't know if they're real but Micah could go cause a disaster in the company if he was like hey you know Ryan's thinking about promoting this guy over here and you know Ryan's thinking about demoting Bill over here to the to the you know oh my goodness you know I mean just one mention could cause a train wreck and and I I've never even I've never even worried about with either one of you guys complete complete integrity with both of you guys and so um that there is that uh there is I mean you have an inside track to my brain and and we as CEOs we're we are looking at stuff at the highest levels and and before we're even ready to share them with partners executives at times right and so uh it's a really big deal uh to be to be honest with each other and to uh and to have that trust with each other.
SPEAKER_02Yeah and I would I would definitely say that you know as with a lot of the discussion that we're having today don't expect it to be overnight. Like yeah like we've been working together you know eight or nine months now and I mean I've known you longer than that but like this is I mean it's a it's a somewhat intimate level that you're getting to know somebody. And so I think give your to to the people listening I would just give yourself the the freedom to allow it to develop and not feel like it's an overnight switch on a lot of things. And on the flip side of that it's a it's an honor and a a privilege to feel like somebody trusts you with a lot of information. And so I think the person that you hire as an EA it should be it should feel like a bit of an honor when you get to meet your executive's family or like you get to know pieces of their mind. Like that's that's very precious information that you don't just necessarily get access to by everybody. And so I think that finding that balance with somebody who sees it as a role and a responsibility and respects that is super important.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I you know it's so good Micah thank you that's that's I thank you moderately what you said that's that's really really good. Um I I think about you know I told Trevor a few times I mean there is probably nobody and I nobody a PBUI that could probably quit today and go build something on his own. You're not wired to do that probably but you could you have seen the inside and you're again Micah's eight months in you're seven years in you have seen like the how to to build something right and we we've almost quadrupled the company since you started right Trevor and you've been a big part of that um and like this like you could do it. You could literally go do it. Don't please but please but yeah terrible idea you probably would fail a terrible idea dude but this idea that you you you've heard all those conversations you saw what worked you saw what didn't work and and uh incredible um so talk a little bit about I I have I have some key traits I would uh the the word is key traits what are some key traits that make you guys successful obviously you're opposite of me I would like to throw in and I'm curious what you get what you think about you can add some to this as well but I think technology and IT skills to if I had to all the other things are a no-brainer. Yes, you need to be good at typing and good at all this other stuff, but I I would be lost without both of your tech and IT skills. Um tell me about that a little bit. Or do you disagree? Is there something that's more important than that? Um, do you guys do you guys feel like there's there's other things that are just equal to that in importance? What do you guys think about that?
SPEAKER_02I think it's a I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily the sharpest tech or IT person, but I think what is what I do carry is the ability to be able to have ownership of that so that you don't have to. Like ultimately, I think that's where it comes down to is what are the what are the skills and the aptitudes that can be owned by somebody who's not the executive. Um so like on the the tech side of things, um, you know, we're we're really trying to embrace AI and some of the the benefits of that. And so sometimes it's deciding what is this project that I can see what see what Claude can do with that, or you know, figuring out ways that we can streamline processes and you know ultimately there are some times where you try something and it doesn't quite turn out the way that you'd like. Um but on on the skills side of things, I think definitely tech and allowing your space not to be your your your headspace to be really devolved with now which button do I need to click when you're thinking on the big presentation. Um but I would say I I I'm a firm believer of it's people first. And so having having the skills and the aptitude to be able to sit with somebody in a space and sometimes it's it's in a guarding for for your executive's time to be able to let them speak to you and feel like they can trust you, but also understand that it's it's a it's a fine line between they know that as an EA, I do have the ear of a lot of people who make big decisions, and so there needs to be a weight and a responsibility to not make so that if somebody's talking to me, they know that it's gospel, that XYZ will happen. But on the same hand, everybody deserves space and uh an honor to be able to feel like they're love and appreciated. Yeah, and so I say an EA really needs to have really strong people skills and in a world that is becoming very connected in certain ways and disconnected in a lot of ways, you really need people who are willing to be with other people and be there to hold their shoulder and say, Hey, you know, I heard about this thing that happened and how can we as a team come around you? Um how how are ways that you know, what what are things in your job that you you feel like are are better opportunities that you know we as an organization can look into and be those ears and but also be willing to sit with somebody and give them space.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, you you trigger something really good there. I that's that's really good stuff, man. I I I think the the tech skills and and and everything you said was was was gold. I think you trigger you you you you I chased another squirrel here because of what you brought up here, and that's the idea that I do think the people skills uh uh that's a great skill that I didn't mention. Uh it's very, very important. And I and I think I think Trevor learned this early on. And I I was a little bit worried, Trevor, that that people would like, who's this kid walking around with Ryan everywhere? And and and like whoever he is, and I don't know who this Trevor kid is, but he's not Ryan, and I ain't doing what he's saying. And I'm telling you, like, I I don't even know. It just I think I did make an announcement about it, but you carried my weight wherever you went. I sent you in a lot of missions to go find fact-finding, uh, setting up meetings, like urgent, and people dropped, people dropped things for you at the exact same level as me. I I felt like um they always knew that it was it was you were there for the sake of Ryan. And if Ryan was calling an emergency meeting, it probably was not wasting my time. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Um if Ryan was asking for how we're shipping this product because there's a problem, they would drop what they're doing and help you because they knew it was important that day to get that answer, right? So uh what's your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_03Well, I think how'd that feel to you? My first thought is I think that PWI has a really special culture that makes that easy to do. Sure. Uh so I've always wondered, like, you know, at a different, you know, company that maybe doesn't put as much effort into culture that we do, how does that actually work? I think that's a lot harder. I think it could still be done, might take more effort and work to get there. Uh but that that's something that I think you communicated well, especially to your direct reports, like as I was starting, yeah, saying, Hey, listen to Trevor when he comes. He's not just saying whatever Trevor wants. It's it's always, you know, Ryan inspired. On behalf on behalf of Ryan, right? Right, on behalf of Ryan. So uh communicating that up front to I I would say first of all, good conversations with your director ports, but then also company wide um or department wide, what whatever the situation looks like, uh is crucial so that everyone knows, hey, uh in my case, it's not just a 19-year-old kid following me around who doesn't know anything, even though I might not have known anything at the time. Um, but you know, I'm here to to come on behalf of Ryan. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So that worked great.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Trevor, tell me, keep going through it for a minute. Tell tell me what brings you the most satisfaction when you started. Like, what what brings you satisfaction as an EA? And Micah, you you're you're on you're on cue there for that as well. What what what at the end of the day, man, you go home, you're like, you're you're holding your little baby girl, and you're like, that was a good day. What what is that?
SPEAKER_03Uh the fact that it wasn't like the day before.
SPEAKER_00Oh.
SPEAKER_03Like explain that. I was gonna do it something. I like that my calendar is you know, just here, there, and everywhere.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And it's not the same monotonous thing every day. Okay. Um, and some days it's managing a construction project, some days it is creating Word documents, some days it is talking with people and trying to organize, you know, a couple different things for uh upcoming meeting. Yeah, like the fact that it always changes and it's something new to learn, I would say would be the the thing that gives me the most. I'm glad because there's a lot of that, yeah. Every day. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Micah, do you feel the same way or do you does that do you struggle with that?
SPEAKER_02Uh so similar but different, yeah, I I would say. Like I I think like for for a long time I I asked myself of this EA thing, is this a is this just a stop on the way, or is this something that I'm building somewhat of a career with? And I quite honestly, I turned it down for a long time thinking that it was just a stop on the way. And a lot of it came down to me believing that ultimately the only way forward in in my career is to then manage people or to manage and be a a leader by title. And I found pretty early on that it's that's not necessarily the way I'm I'm I'm completely wired. And I really struggled with that for a long time, but I came back around to the idea of but man, it feels like this is a really great opportunity to be able to serve people. And my heart has really centered on the idea of I love supporting people, I love being able to come alongside somebody and be behind them, making them look better and do better work. But I ultimately don't need the I don't need the responsibility of being the person who's leading the whole thing. And so I just I I've personally it's it's worked well with with my my desires to be able to come alongside and support versus be at the at the forefront.
SPEAKER_00I think what you're saying is that it's it's become your calling. That's that's what you're saying. I mean I I think you just might have been called by God to do this this role, and you're in your second one like it, and hopefully there's a long career ahead of you for that as well here. So I'm excited about that. So uh talk briefly as we wrap here, guys. Best tools uh that we've used. Uh Trevor, I'll go to you on this. Uh uh as we were diving into this. I know Micah actually and you talked about this when you started. Uh some tools that you're that you've used. I know Trello is one of them. There's a couple others that talk about Trello for a minute, how that works, and maybe a few others. Sure.
SPEAKER_03Trello actually, I think, came from Micah in our original meeting seven, eight years ago, whatever that was. Um, so yeah, that's a good one. Basically, you know, for managing lists. Um, you could use that for to-do lists, you could use that for, you know, here's our project, here's the steps that it we need to take in order to complete that project. Uh, that's where we also use the parking lot that you described earlier. Of Ryan says, Hey, what if we made this machine more efficient by buying this apparatus? What whatever it is, okay, put that in the parking lot.
SPEAKER_00It does really well with images as well. So I love pictures. I'm a I'm a I'm a kid. So you can you can you can organize it with photos, and I can just see instantly that machine, that building project, that dream I have, uh, whatever that is, I can scroll through that with just photos and see instantly. Oh, yeah, that it triggers other good ideas.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there's a good point, like where do you put, you know, you come across a good LinkedIn post or you come across a uh a link somewhere that you want to save. That's a place that we've used Trello for. Just like throw it in there, forget about it, and you'll come across it someday when when you need it. Um, besides Trello, um let's see here. I I I would just take the standpoint of uh I don't think that I did a great job of uh keeping my uh personal uh desktop organized when I was an assistant because everything was everywhere. Yeah. So I would encourage just the standpoint of file organization, yeah. You know, so so that Micah knows, okay, it's about this topic. Here's the folder. Like create a folder structure that you can find things quickly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, even on your personal, you know, device. I think that's crucial. Um, you know, AI and connecting, you know, co-pilot into to Microsoft tools now helps with finding emails, that kind of stuff. A lot of like even just finding email searches, just like that was my best friend too.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Of you know, going back, what did Ryan say in 2021 when he was talking with this person?
SPEAKER_00I could never find an email.
SPEAKER_03I mean, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00Just being able to pull up that kind of stuff quickly. Um obviously the the starring emails, which is what Micah's doing now, is a great tool. I mean, it's not it's not that that fancy, but we just just the idea that I'm staying in a in a sorted inbox is what I what I live in, and that that's a great tool to use.
SPEAKER_02And I would also say that on the flip side of that, for for you, you did a really good job on the whole file organization side of things. Because yeah, server and yeah, that kind of stuff. That that was something that I stepped in and I felt like a lot of the framework was already in place.
SPEAKER_00So kudos to you. Yeah, so just to let's clarify what's going on with inboxes, though. I mean, like so both Trevor and Micah, they both have two inboxes open. Uh Trevor, you don't really anymore, but I mean saying I'm saying in in in your role as an EA, you both uh had two inboxes open. You had you had Micah's open and you have you have Ryan's open. And so Micah's seeing all my emails, he's seeing his own emails, and he's able to start drafts, send responses as needed. But but we have this rule. We start started the rule with you. I I want to be authentic. Uh, I don't ever want uh, and we this this the rule is very simple. We don't ever send an email uh on behalf of Ryan uh that I haven't at least read first. Okay. And so Micah will often respond uh to an email from from from my inbox as Micah. So Micah can go into my inbox, respond as Micah, and just say, hey, um, this is Micah, Ryan's assistant. Uh he's actually unavailable this week, but he'd love to, you know, to connect with you some other time. But I'll call you back in June or something on the calendar. That's totally fine. But when you say, hey, great to meet you, this is Ryan uh uh uh I'd love to hang out with you sometime. Let's do dinner sometime and whatever that is. And I have no idea it ever got sent. That felt very unauthentic to me. Yeah, so that's just been our rule. Now, Micah will, and Trevor, you do the same thing, will draft a ton of emails. He'll draft a response, two paragraphs, whatever that is. This is what we're thinking. And then Micah will throw it up on his screen. By the way, he's got we got a screen in our office that's there's just little things that helps you guys understand how we do it. And how we do it is there's a there's a screen mirror on the wall that mirrors Micah's screen or my assistant's screen. So I can glance up from my desk, my workspace, glance up, and I can see what's on his screen. You say, What do you what do you think, Ryan? And uh, he'll read through it and I'll go like, nah, that's not that's that's not even true. I don't want to do that. Or no, I would not say that. Let's not let's not do that, but I will say that. And boop, sent, it's gone. And in about you know, 90 seconds, I did a 10-minute job or a nine-minute job. Whatever that is. So that's very, very helpful.
SPEAKER_03Two other tools. Uh, we've used lucid chart uh for org chart software. Oh my. And then also uh done a little bit of whimsical. Basically, that is a a diagram diagram software. So you can you know create a chart, create a process flow, yeah. That kind of thing uh is useful in the the EA role as well.
SPEAKER_00Which is what we're doing a lot. We're again, we're we're looking at you know two years out, five years out, ten years out. We're saying, you know, what what what has what does it have to look like? And so we're we're ahead. I would I argue that I I know a lot of people think that HR is the org chart owner and the you know, head of HR should be running the org chart. Uh not in our world, it's not. I mean, the HR guy is you know doing well with culture and and hiring people and all that, but we're thinking, at least not the uh he might he might own the current org chart as it is today, make some shifts so it's so the titles are all up to date. That's great. That's not what we're doing. We're looking out ahead three years, two years, nine months, and saying, what would happen if we would ship this guy into this role? We'd do a new hire over here, and what if we put this over here? And what if we color these these these uh these um these titles or these rules in this way to make you know clear clarification? Yeah. Um what if we would call all these guys uh directors and we would call all these guys managers, whatever. We're just looking at and that stuff all the time, right? I I I don't know, or Trevor, then in seven years since you started that our chart has stayed the same for a month. I don't know, no. I don't know that that's a stretch. Seven years every month, something not saying we we updated that that often. We might have, but it by the time we got back to it a month later, it already changed. And like that, that's not even really right. And so that doesn't happen for every company. It happens when you're growing at the rate that we have. So um it's it's a lot. So uh wrapping us up here today, guys. What we're sitting here with my past EA and my current one. Okay, so uh back a year and a half ago, um, I I saw this need uh for a for a chief of staff. And and we and and Trevor was my current EA. We were wrestling through that, what that looks like. There's a lot of things. Uh here I'm you know slamming the typical visionary CEOs. We're terrible at details. I hate the word processes and procedures and policies, the P words. I hate them all. I don't want I don't want to mess with it. I'm terrible at them. And I I'm forced to, uh we're forced to wrestle through those things, but I don't like them. Um and so though those those were the glaring weaknesses at PWI, clearly. And so there's a lot of things that that uh that were falling through the cracks as we grew. And so I felt like uh really wrestled with what this title was. What what what would it look like to have a you know role over here that that that fills into my weaknesses and my weak spots. So I ended up on chief of staff, and Trevor and I read some books about that. We wrestled through what that is. We we considered COO, different ideas there. At the end of the day, we we landed on chief of staff, and I promoted Trevor to chief of staff uh in February of 25. Am I close? Yep, yep, man. I remember my my mind worked today. Uh no squirrels in there running around, so that's good. Um so we so then I was I'm on this hunt. Okay, so here's the story. I'm on this hunt for a new EA. I'm like, well, Trevor, this is I'm I I'm like, I'm I need you. I'm like, so what am I gonna do? So Trevor kind of agreed to kind of do kind of some some you know both roles there for a while, and we went on this hunt for a new EA. I interviewed, I think, three uh number of different people have applied, but I interviewed, and that's as it's a thing. I didn't know if I really even wanted to put you know uh an ad out there for my EA. I felt like it had to be a God thing. It felt like it had to be a you know hand of God saying Trevor's your guy, like what happened in 2019 when you started. I was waiting for that moment to happen, it didn't happen. And I kept praying through that. And um, and somehow in the summer of 25, after you were ready chief of staff and kind of doing both roles for me, uh, I got a phone call. And the phone call was from um Micah's boss, Len, who's a friend of mine. He said, Hey, um, and I don't think I don't know that Len knew anything about our opening. So I don't think we had it posted anywhere. No, it wasn't posted out. So you talk about it, you talked about a God thing. I mean, again, twice. You guys are like two for two here. So um so just seriously, I want to encourage our listeners, pray. If you're a faith-based person, pray about the roles that are in your company, pray for them, and and and God does care about what you're doing every day. God, God does, he's in that, those details. And so uh I had interviewed the third person. I had my guy picked out who I thought would be probably the best. I wasn't tickled about it. I didn't know him at all, and I just felt like he was okay, you know. Um, and so, and so just about ready to make an offer to this person, and the phone rings, and Lynn Len calls me and said, Hey Ryan, things are changing over at my at my company. Uh I'm stepping down from my role, and I just I don't need my EA anymore. Man, you're the first person I thought of, and I'm wondering if there's a role there for him. Now, again, he had no idea that Trevor had erased. I mean, what talk about God stuff, right? He had no idea that Trevor had even stepped down. I said, Micah, you're kidding, Trevor, you're oh my goodness, Len, you're kidding me. And Len goes, no, I'm serious. Why, why do you why are you why do you say that? I said, Well, uh, you know, Trevor has already stepped down. I'm I'm like, I'm I'm ready to hire an EA right now. And so tell me about Micah. Am I stealing him from you? Like what like why are you calling me? And so he explained his story. And I mean, the rest is history. I mean, I it didn't take more than a few weeks. And and, you know, we hired Micah. Uh, I think you filled out an extra month or something for Len after that, uh, and you know, till Labor Day of 25, whatever that was. Um, and Micah came on board. Trevor's now chief of staff, and man, the rest is history. Um, tell me, tell us a bit. I mentioned chief of staff a few times. Uh, tell us just briefly uh what chief of staff, what you what you do in your role today now. So and how that maybe, you know, who else better to be chief of staff than a person who sat in my office for seven years, right? So tell me a little bit about your new role.
SPEAKER_03Sure. So um I I have a couple direct reports uh on top of some of the other processes and that kind of stuff you just talked about. I'll hit that in a second. But uh so I oversee IT, our IT department, our software department, um, and our facilities and maintenance. So the way I think of it is anything that supports you know the rest of PWI flows up through me. Um and you know, we're doing things that affect sales, we're doing things that affect um production, building buildings, and that kind of stuff. That all of that filters through me, which is a good direct connection, which also requires some vision of hey, where are we going? I have a direct connection with you, what you where's your head at? And I can, you know, lead and decipher what we should be working on through that. Um so those are the three departments that I I had. Uh also some of those were taking off of your plate, direct reports. 100%. So uh it was a good move of consolidating how many people you had reporting to you. Um, and then also uh in addition to that, this is kind of the wild card and something that we're still trying to figure out what it looks like, but anything else that I need to do as chief of staff?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh some of that is, you know, hey, there's a process that's broken. And how does this email group make sense for the company? And should these people be in it? Should these people not be in it? When does it get sent? Like, who else is gonna do that when you have a growing company, you have leaders that are super busy just with their day-to-day trying to stay and survive, you know, what's happening. Yeah, you can't go beyond that without major burnout happening. So giving giving some of that kind of stuff over to me to help facilitate, it's not necessarily me making every single decision, but it needs to get done, and I'm the one helping push that to the finish line.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you're you're you're filling in the roles that that affect all departments in most cases. HR is the one that you don't have underneath you at this point, and then I think that's that's fine and good. Uh, but uh that's under the CFO currently. But people ask about that a lot. But yeah, but uh, but uh most of the other things that affect all things company wide uh are under Trevor and I'm kept out of those P words that I that I don't like, right? So God, it's been a pleasure to talk to you guys today. Uh uh great conversation. I think we've added a lot of value to our listeners. And and uh if you guys have questions about this when you're watching this, drop some comments in and we'd love to dialogue about this. I'm sure Trevor and Micah could do that as well and uh drop drop in and and and help whoever we can. If we can help you um forward your business the way it has, this has helped us. We'd love to do that. So, business owners, CEOs, presidents, if you want to discipline yourself, if you want to double your capacity, hire an EA. Delegate, let go of the details, double your efficiency. Time is the most precious commodity in the world, okay? Um, and I we've learned that. Time is time is everything. And so these guys sitting here with me have helped me double and multiply my time. Hire an EA, do it today. Thanks for joining us today on The Forge.