The People Who Make Virginia
The People Who Make Virginia by Gray Broughton Injury Law is built around one simple idea: the people doing meaningful work in Virginia have stories worth sharing.
This podcast is a series of real, unfiltered conversations with business owners, community leaders, and individuals making an impact in their own way.
Gray Broughton Injury Law is a veteran-led, trial-ready law firm that handles cases throughout Virginia. If we can ever be of help to you, give us a call at 877-VETS-WIN.
The People Who Make Virginia
The Virginia War Memorial: A Living Tribute | Dr. Clay Mountcastle
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Dr. Clay Mountcastle is the director of the Virginia War Memorial, the Commonwealth of Virginia’s premier monument, museum, and educational center, dedicated to Virginians who served to defend the United States from World War II through today.
Clay himself grew up in a military family stationed abroad, spending most of his childhood growing up in Germany, witnessing the impacts of the Cold War and the fight against Communism first hand. These experiences would form a lasting impact on his perspectives and world view.
A retired U.S. Army officer, his military service took him to Germany, South Korea and Iraq on assignments with the 82nd Airborne Division, U.S. Army 5th Corps and U.S. Army Special Operations Command. He is a 1994 graduate of the Virginia Military Institute and holds a Masters and PhD in History from Duke University.
Most recently, he served as Professor of Military History at the University of Washington in Seattle and as an Assistant Professor of Military History at the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College at Fort Lee, Virginia.
Our conversation today highlights the importance of interactive military history, and in this respect the Virginia War Memorial is a national standard bearer in its combination of memorial and active programming. Through education and storytelling, the memorial serves as a bridge between civilians and veterans.
Our thanks to Dr. Clay for joining us today, sharing his story and the mission of the VWM. No matter where you live in Virginia, or if you are visiting our state, know that this memorial caters to everyone, is for everyone, and encourages exploration of this living tribute to sacrifice.
"It wasn't just about seeing names on a wall. It became about understanding the history of those names and stories. To honor those that have made the ultimate sacrifice, and learn about service to the country." - Dr. Clay Mountcastle
Learn more about Dr. Clay Mountcastle and the Virginia War Memorial:
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to the Virginia War Memorial
02:55 Growing Up in a Military Family
09:03 The Impact of Military Life on Personal Development
15:01 The Importance of History and Military Heritage
29:44 The Virginia War Memorial: Honoring Sacrifice
37:52 The Power of Storytelling: Engaging Generations
40:59 The Impact of the Virginia War Memorial
43:38 Preserving History: Capturing Veterans' Stories
46:57 How to Support the Virginia War Memorial
If we can ever be of help to you, give us a call at 1-877-VETS WIN, or visit https://www.graybroughton.com.
There is not a single other facility like the Virginia War Memorial that combines the memorial aspect with active programming and exhibits and community-focused activities. We've been able to combine a number of different elements and really just focus on reaching out to the community and bringing all different types of people together.
SPEAKER_01This is the People Who Make Virginia. Real stories from the people making a difference in our communities. Brought to you by Gray Broaden Injury Law, a veteran-led trial-ready law firm.
SPEAKER_03We're back. We've got an episode of The People Who Make Virginia. And today we've got the privilege of having Dr. Clay Mountcastle with us. We'll give you a second to introduce yourself, but really important for our listeners, he went to a very, very prestigious school in Southern Virginia called the Virginia Military Institute. And so, hence that's the sole reason you're here. I'm joking. Dr. Mountcastle is a director of the Virginia War Memorial here in Richmond. And really excited to have you to talk about not just who you are and your path, your journey to get to the Virginia War Memorial, but what it is, why it matters, and what you guys are trying to do. But before we I turn it over to you, Gray and Harry, I want to share this story. I have this tradition where I take my kids to the James River or something on Sundays, and it's a lot of fun. Like we good time. And more often than not, at least recently, I've found myself taking them to the Virginia War Memoir. I can we can see the river. There's this massive hill that my two-year-old loves to run to the bottom of and scare the death out of me because there's there's a road right there, right? And what I've noticed, and it's actually kind of coming full circle, but it's also similar to kind of then what I feel when I'm back at VMI or when I'm on a military base, is you just tend to like kind of walk a little taller. Like there's something about the Virginia War Memorial that's solemn about it, that's purposeful, that's mission-driven, right? It just makes you appreciate things a little bit more and feel this kind of sense of purpose. And so I am super excited that you've joined us, and I can't wait to dig in and understand like what actually the Virginia War Memorial is, what it stands for, and what you guys are trying to do. So with that, why don't you take a second, introduce yourself?
SPEAKER_00Sure. Well, thanks for having me. This is great to be here with you all. I've always just thought of myself as a really fortunate guy who got a lot luckier than I probably deserve to be. Uh, I was an army kid, lived a bit of a magical life, I think, growing up in an army family overseas. Went to the greatest school in the country because I was given no other choice to do so because my dad had gone there and uh made it pretty clear that that's where I was destined to go. And uh let's pause real quick.
SPEAKER_03I think Gray's getting a little uncomfortable because Gray went to this place called W L. Have you heard of that?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I I I think so. I think so. We used to run through law school school. That's right. All right. We used to run through there very quickly and be a little jealous of the lifestyle that was going on at WL next door. Especially at the law school. Exactly. Or we at least we heard stories of what was going on there, didn't experience it too much ourselves. But and then I got to really, again, be very fortunate to serve in the Army for 21 years. And I've always say that I got a much better end of the deal from that than the Army got out of me. I mean, I was given so many cool opportunities to serve and did such great things and met such wonderful soldiers in the process that again, I just kept feeling, you know, super fortunate all along the way. And then after I retired, I came back to my parents' hometown, which was right here in Richmond, Virginia. So I'm an inherited Virginian, you know, haven't lived most of my life here in the Commonwealth, but with each passing year, I feel more and more connected to it. But it's my parents' hometown here in Richmond. My brother lives here, and so just became so lucky and fortunate to end up at the Virginia War Memorial, very special place, as you mentioned. Pretty sweet.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. And I know we want to definitely talk about the Virginia War Memorial, but would it be okay if we dug in a little bit kind of into your background? Absolutely. So, I mean, why army? What drew you to that?
SPEAKER_00Just the familiarity of it. You know, I grew up, I was born in Germany in Nuremberg American Hospital, and for the rest of my childhood just moved around different places in West Germany at the time, you know, kind of showing how old I am. It was still West Germany, and that was such an amazing opportunity for me. I had one brother and we grew up in an army family. We lived on army bases. Sometimes we lived in German villages close to the army base. And I don't find the perfect words to describe how I keep coming back to magical, but that kind of gives it a you know mystical sense. It wasn't that. But it was it was just so great to experience living overseas in another country during that time period specifically, growing up in the 80s in West Germany, because the communities themselves were so tight-knit in those army communities. Everybody gets to know everybody very quickly. You rely on each other for help, and you know, you become fast friends really quickly because you know that you're probably moving away a year or two later. So you make friends quickly. And my parents made sure that my brother and I understood just how lucky we were to be living in a different country. And so they took us and they showed us, you know, all different corners of Germany when we could. And another thing that I think was really good for my brother and I, my friends, kids of my age, is we were living there at a time where there was a clear contrast between what it meant to live in a free society in West Germany and on an American military base. And then just a few miles away, you had not free, literally held behind a wall of concrete and barbed wire with you know armed guards and towers keeping people in in East Germany. And so not all you know young Americans get that very clear contrast to see on a daily basis, and through that you start to appreciate what it means to live in a free society, what it means to be able to do pretty much what you want to do and enjoy your freedoms. And so that whole experience of growing up in Germany, going to school over there, to answer your question, why army? It's all I knew, really. All of my friends were from Army families. I saw my dad go to work, come home in his army uniform, or woke up to the sound of M1 tanks cranking up in the motor pool behind our housing area. And I think it's just you spend so much time around it, there wasn't anything else I knew. Was your dad armor or what he was, he was armor through and through, and he ate, breathed, lived, tanks and tankers. And so, yeah, we were with the armor the whole time. And then when I went to high school in Nuremberg American High School, he commanded the 2nd Brigade of the 1st Armored Division in Germany, and uh so yeah, he was definitely a hardcore armor guy.
SPEAKER_03So I mentioned before we started that you and Gray have a lot of overlap, at least in your time in the army. Gray, also Germany, also South Korea, also beautiful Iraq, right?
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, wonderful, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then that's it's it's actually not that uncommon. You know, when guys spend enough time in the army, you're gonna end up in a lot of the same places in the same orbits. But I think that's a really cool thing about the military, and I try and stress that to young Virginians, some of them being my own kids, that hey, if you're considering the military, just consider the fact that it is a small world in the military, and you do end up making friendships that tend to re-energize themselves year in and year out because you cross paths so frequently, and it is such a small world. And so even when you meet people that you didn't know on active duty, there you can sit down, you can have a conversation for an hour or two just by shared experience from serving in some of the same places. It's really cool.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think probably a lot of people don't realize like what it was like in the 80s, the height of the Cold War, you're in literally in West Germany. Yeah, I can't, I mean, and you got to experience it both as like a military brat, right, and then also on active duty.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it was a very useful place to be, and I use that term because uh we had to grow up a little bit just in understanding the situation, the global situation, because my dad, you know, tried to make us understand that hey, at any given moment I might have to take off, and your mother might have to gather you boys up and get you on a plane and get you back to the States because you know, a war could break out. And he tried to deliver that message to us, not to freak us out or startle us, but just to be honest with us that hey, we're living in an environment where something could happen, very serious. And, you know, that did force us as young kids to kind of see the world in a not so naive light. You kind of grew up kind of quickly, but in a very weird way, I dug it. You know, I I it was so cool just to be in that environment. We'd go to the movie theaters and we'd watch Cold War themed movies that were popular at the time.
SPEAKER_04Red Dawn.
SPEAKER_00Oh, Red Dawn, of course. Wolverines, you know, Red Dawn, which again, the the stupidest strategy to parachute into the middle of the continental United States. We're gonna cut it in half. And then you're imagining the logistics that would go into trying to do that. Really bad strategy, but don't don't ruin it. Don't ruin a good movie with strategy stuff like that. Or my personal favorite was Firefox when Clint Eastwood went into there and stole the jet and flew it out of there. Oh man. It's in the script.
SPEAKER_02They just they just follow the script.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. And it's just but the reason those movies felt so cool is because we thought that, you know, that's not that far removed from you know the world that we're living in now. And so, at least for me and a lot of the kids I knew, you know, being in that environment was a good thing in a way for us because it, you know, again, it forced us to kind of see the world in some very realistic terms and helped us grow up a bit. It was great. I wouldn't trade it for anything. That experience of growing up in military family overseas doing that, man, that is probably the greatest gift I've had in my life.
SPEAKER_03How much of your childhood did you spend overseas?
SPEAKER_00Oh, let's see, pretty much with the exception of a few trips back to the States. My dad taught at West Point for three years. What's that? What's that? I'm Jim. Exactly. You know, I think I've heard West Point alum joke about the South Hudson Institute of Technology. You know, uh you can do the you can do the acronym on that. But um, you know, he taught there, we lived there, and then he did a few short assignments at Fort Leavenworth. But I'd say 75% of the childhood was over in Germany. Wow.
SPEAKER_03And so then Germany to VMI.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, straight from they took me to the airport in Nuremberg, dropped me off. And as I was about to get on the plane, my mom was like, you know, honey, if VMI just isn't your thing, you can always come back. My dad was standing right behind her, shaking his head, like, no, you're not coming back. You go, you do it, you know, and and so, but that was all I needed to know. I was like, hey, nothing they can do at VMI would be worse than what my dad would do if I came back with my tail between my legs. So um, so I was fully committed to going over there. So we went straight, yeah, and then signed in, matriculated, and off we went with the rat experience at VMI.
SPEAKER_03I love it. I love it. And good old uh well, I I don't know why I say southwest Virginia. It's not really Southwest Virginia, right?
SPEAKER_00West the Western Western, you know, Western, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but it's a beautiful area.
SPEAKER_00It is. So I really is. I think historic Lexington is underrated. It is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you you're a fan, right?
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like going to like the like the cemetery in Lexington is just no, it's it's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Now I do think I I always ask the few people I've met that have lived there, lived there for a while. I say, what do you guys do after 8 p.m.? And they're like, nothing. You know, there's like it's just one of the it's a historic town, and so it's not meant to be a town that has a thriving nightlife. I'm sure there's a few spots up and down there. Yeah, exactly. The palms. Well, the palms is still there. Yes. Was it there for both of you guys? Oh, yes. My 21st birthday, I only remember the first hour, you know, and and then uh I don't remember what happened after that. I've I've heard stories. You hit over the head or something? I've yeah, well, something something I just hear stories about what somebody said, but yeah, it's still there. So I I get a little I get a little shiver every time I go by it again.
SPEAKER_03So Harry, you have you been to Lexington? No, no, I'm gonna need to take you.
SPEAKER_00Great town.
SPEAKER_02It's a beautiful it's a restaurant. Oh, got it, got it.
SPEAKER_00Local bar that's you know, a mainstay. But one thing I will say, and you I'm sure Sharif, you felt this. When I was attending VMI there, coming back towards Lexington, you get that nauseous feeling. It wasn't fun coming back to Lexington while you were there. Yeah, at the end of a weekend or after a furlough or something like that, you're driving down 81 and you're like, the closer you get, the more you're like, uh no, here we go. But after graduating, that died down after a year, and now I absolutely love I love going back.
SPEAKER_03I never go back, but you should. You need to get back to the back. I go back, I go back a lot. I go back a lot. I go back for cadet alumni networking stuff. I was very fortunate to be on the honor court while I was there. Actually, Gray was on the honor counsel for Dubino while he was there in law school. But I go do a training for them every year. We've done that for like, gosh, 14 years now in a row, which is crazy. So I'm joking. I go back all the time. And I like you, yeah, VMI. I mean, there are some part times I was like, I don't know if I can finish. Like, I there's I want to leave, right? This is not fun, right? This is not JMU. But looking back, I mean, for me, it was an incredible experience. And it's continued.
SPEAKER_00And and you you mentioned it for both of you guys. I hope, and I I'm not as in touch with what's actually happening in colleges and universities these days, but I hope that the notion of an honor system or an honor counsel is still something that some colleges and universities are holding, holding on to. I know at VMI they still have the honor system. It's probably changed slightly in some ways, not the code itself, but how it's administered and other things.
SPEAKER_04And at other colleges and universities Yeah, I went to Davidson for undergrad, and it's yeah, very much.
SPEAKER_00Because that's that's one of those things. I hope that that concept never becomes antiquated. I hope it never seems quaint, you know, but it meant so much to me and other guys that I went through the VMI experience with and it carried forward in their life that now just the idea of right or wrong for me is still something that's very black and white. There's not a lot of nuance between right or wrong. And I think it's rooted largely in that experience that we had.
SPEAKER_03The honor system at VMI is more sophisticated now. The code is the same. Yeah. And the cadets who are on the honor core are second to none. I mean, just exceptional. They take it incredibly seriously. And I've I mean, I think all of us would probably agree among the alumni that without the honor code, there's no VMI. I mean, it is the foundation, right? It is the handshake, it is it's everything, and so it's incredibly important. Let's dig in. So my understanding, you chose history. I did. Why? What was it about history? And I think this is I my my guess is this is gonna ultimately take us to the Virginia Warmore.
SPEAKER_00Sure. Yeah, and they're connected. A couple reasons. One, uh, again, my dad. My dad was a military historian. Again, he taught military history at West Point. If there's two things that he loved, it was tanks and military history, and he knew so much that my entire childhood, whenever we were in the States a few times, he would constantly have us visiting battlefields. You know, I don't know how many times I went to Gettysburg before I graduated high school, but a lot. And seeing that love that he had for America's history just rubbed off on me, whether it was intentional or not, or conscious, subconscious. So again, history felt familiar to me. And I I I did a lot of reading myself growing up that I was interested in in history, but also I was so bad at anything that was numbers related, it had to be either English or history. So I had a 50-50 choice, and I figured English was writing a lot, history is reading a lot, I'll just do a lot of reading. Well, it turns up it's both a lot of reading, but that was kind of it. The army ROTC choice was easy because it's all I knew, and the history was pretty much easy too, is kind of all I knew. So I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it. I knew I was gonna commission, you know, I knew I was gonna do ROTC and hopefully commission. So in a weird way, I was just kind of going into VMI on autopilot because I knew that I was gonna commission into the Army, didn't know how long I would serve. So to me, the degree was like more of a pragmatic, like, well, what can I get out of here in four years with? And I knew it wasn't anything that had to do with numbers. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that what was it, Nichols Engineering? I stayed very far away from that place.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. I I didn't go anywhere north or whatever, south of Scotchhip Hall my last three years. Every class I took was in that one liberal arts building. They've redone it, it's really nice. Yeah, but it's still no W N.
SPEAKER_04Any particular time period in history in which you know concentration? I was history, it's kind of funny. I was a history major.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I ended up focusing in graduate school, I ended up focusing on the American Civil War. But it was funny, I was kind of burned out on that because my dad introduced so much to Gettysburg. So many trips to Gettysburg. I kind of wanted to look at other stuff, so I was more interested in in 20th century and Vietnam because my dad was a Vietnam vet and I wanted to learn more about that. But when I ultimately went to graduate school myself for history, it was it was a combination of the fact that I was attending graduate school in the South at Duke in North Carolina, so I was going to have some Civil War resources close by to research. And also, again, this kind of just whether I knew it or not, I knew more about the Civil War. So I wasn't starting at ground zero trying to build my research off of a conflict that I knew nothing about. I already had a head start with Civil War history, so that's where I ended up in graduate school. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Knowing what you know, do you have a favorite movie or TV show that's like very ac or close to accurate from what really happened?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's you know, Civil War films and TV shows are you know how it is. When you know a little bit about something, you get really overly picky about it. Because I asked you guys your favorite courtroom dramas or something like that, and you you probably are overly critical of a lot of them. But there's a few that I like simply for you know accuracy and other things. There is a a little-known film called Ride with the Devil that Aang Lee directed, and it stars Tobey McGuire of Spider-Man fame, uh, and I think Skeet Ulrich and a few other guys. And the reason I like it is it's about a sector, a theme in the Civil War that I ended up writing my dissertation on, and that was guerrilla warfare during the Civil War. And it's focuses on the Missouri-Kansas conflict in that area where you had a real divide, and you actually had a lot of violence happening before the Civil War that just continued on into the Civil War between these guerrillas, bushwhackers, or something like that, and the Union Army responding to that. And actually, I found out that the movie wasn't half bad. You know, it's actually pretty well done and pretty accurately portrays that conflict that was happening now. Now, of course, like they do with most war movies, they ruin it with a love story. And, you know, I think the musician Jewel was an actress in this, and there's a bit of a love element story in there that you can kind of fast forward through sometimes, but let's get back to the war part of the war movie. But uh it's not it's not bad. You gotta sell tickets. Gotta sell tickets. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, if you know, but uh, but yeah, it's it's whatever people prefer. You know, the the old standby movie Gettysburg, not bad at all. Well done. It's got its its great moments and it's great scenes and everything. And so I do recommend that to people. Certainly, I recommend it if people are going to Gettysburg. I always recommend that they watch that before they go because it does kind of give them a sense of the three-day battle before they actually get to the battlefield. Right. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean, you lay, I mean, well, Virginia, talk about a historic place. Oh, yeah. I mean, and when it comes to civil war, yeah, you can't you can't escape.
SPEAKER_00No, no, you you you really can't, and it's almost again, when people ask me, oh, I'm interested in Civil War history, and we're here in Virginia, where should I go? It's really depends on the person and what they're looking to experience. And I'm biased. I'm biased towards the Shenandoah Valley. Having spent four years in Lexington, I always recommend people head out to the Shenandoah Valley because you had two different Civil War campaigns out there in 1862 with Stonewall Jackson, you know, dipping and dodging through Mass Nutton and the Blue Ridge there, evading and fighting when he wanted to, the Union Army. And then you had the Union Army return to the Shenandoah in 1864, where they really laid down a heavy hammer and worked their way all the way down to just past Lexington and then back up. And so there's two different campaigns that you can study, and the battlefields are actually they're not as big as a a Gettysburg, but you have some actually really well preserved battlefields to visit out there in that part of the state.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. I mean, there's stuff here in Richmond. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00No, uh yeah. I mean, there there's days worth of Civil War history around here in Richmond to to check out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, before we get to the Virginia War Memorial, I don't want to just skip over twenty one years. I mean we were talking Before we started this episode, and you did a bunch of different jobs in the Army.
SPEAKER_00And that's the that's the great thing about, I think, the Army. Certainly, you know, I I commissioned, I was an officer, and it gave me so many different looks and opportunities to do different things that I went right back over to Germany as a lieutenant. I was an Avenger platoon leader, that's a surface-to-air missile system. And then went to the 82nd Airborne, fell out of airplanes for three years, and then 9-11 happened, but I ran off to graduate school because the apple didn't fall far from the tree, as it were. And I went to Duke for graduate school and then went to West Point and taught military history at West Point, just as my dad had. And then got to do a little bit more of the air defense artillery thing that was my basic branch, but then went uh over to the special operations side and was able to do some counterterrorism operations in Iraq and then finish it all up working on a R1 rated university campus at the University of Washington in Seattle running the Army RTC program. So just so many different opportunities, so many different things to do, and a year in Korea thrown in there as well, another overseas opportunity, a trip to Bosnia, you know, during that, during that mission, that it felt so great to be able to do something different every two or three years. Some people don't like that. I thought it was great, you know, because I just felt like I got to just really do a different job almost every two or three years.
SPEAKER_03Can you talk about what interaction, if any, you had with Jags while you're doing some of those counterterrorists? Because Gray, Gray was what was your role, Gray, when you were in Iraq?
SPEAKER_04Operational law. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Current operations. So I would expect you would have dealt with the world.
SPEAKER_00We were with Joint Special Operations Command, Counterterrorism Task Force. So we were, you know, as tip of the spear stuff, counterterrorism, going after the bad guys every night. And the one member of the task force who got almost no sleep was the JAG officer, the lawyer, because every decision being made at that point in the war, now this was in 2009, 2010, this is during the Maliki government, is kind of like you had to have a warrant to go after a bad guy, suspected terrorists. You had to get a warrant, work through the Iraqi court system, and you know, the JAG officer was instrumental in trying to facilitate that process, which of course to all of us seemed more of a hindrance than anything else.
SPEAKER_03Sure. But when you say warrant, you're talking about like an arrest warrant.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think it was an agreement with the Maliki government that, hey, we're no longer just gonna land helicopters ad hoc on top of someone's house and then grab them and then take them home. We're gonna They didn't like that? No, no, but it was to get I I believe it was to give the Maliki government some form. Yeah, it was supposed to give the Maliki government some form of legitimacy to say, oh, hey, we're we're in control here. We're telling the Americans what they can and can't do.
SPEAKER_04So kind of like a status of forces agreement.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. But the JAG officer there with the task force, I mean, he was so instrumental in every decision that was being made operationally. Like, can we do this? Can we do that? Should we do this? Right. Should we do that? Is this going to be crossing a line that we don't want to cross? So, I mean, he was right there next to the boss. And every time the boss was making a key operational decision, he wanted to get the JAG officer's green lighter, or maybe maybe you should hold off on this. You know, that's the type of war it was at that point.
SPEAKER_04And hopefully the the JAG officer was kind of helping to get you all to yes, to get you to the no absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And the JAG officer was was much more of a facilitator. He wasn't there to just you know be the you know Dr. No. Yeah, the doctor, exactly. He he wasn't there to try and say, no, no, you can't do that, you can't do that. No, he was much more along the lines of let's see what you're talking about. Let's see, yeah, there's no reason why you can't do that. Go. But busy, busy, busy.
SPEAKER_03No, I bet. Greg, what was your experience like?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I was there OIF one. Okay, oh wow. Uh late. I was in Korea in the beginning of 03 when the the war kicked off in March of 03. So when I got there, it was November, uh, late October, early November of 2003. So major combat operations were over. The insurgency had sort of kicked up. And around the time I was there was when uh they captured Sassam Hussein. I had nothing to do with it. Uh and uh and the time that Abu Ghraib happened, I had nothing to do with that either. Uh all these things were happening. You were not involved with the city. I was not involved, yeah. Right. Yeah, thankfully. But I did go out to the Baghdad Correctional Facility as it was renamed. And so, yeah, that was much more of a wild west because that's you know, this is back before there were even up armored on V's and things like that. We drove around downtown Baghdad in a uh Toyota Land Cruiser and a Ford Explorer with with Vietnam era flag jacket. Yeah, and why is that?
SPEAKER_03Uh I'm just curious. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04I mean I mean, I think that's just what they had when they got there. And then by the time like three corps came in, they had all the high speed gear.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I mean, land cruisers are pretty fancy, man. Yeah, I don't know. I would like to have a land cruiser right now.
SPEAKER_00That's right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, I guess it's I never went to Iraq. I did Egypt of all places, which is actually an incredible deployment. I went twice, once as a command advisor, and then once as for a trial. Sure. I was a colonel defense attorney in the army. Sure. But yeah, no, it was a sign. It was crazy. So it was a part of the multinational force observers.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_03So really, really cool spot. But no, I've heard stories from other soldiers about like what it was like in Iraq. And I mean, great, it sounds like you were there at the beginning, which is a different thing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, not the very beginning when they were invading and taking over. But um Right.
SPEAKER_00But what I found interesting, and it, you know, it should go without saying, but I think a lot of us in uniform kind of didn't think about it too much. But when units go on deployments and you're overseas and you're doing these other things, Uniform Code of Military Justice doesn't stop.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00I mean, you still have the procedures you need to follow. Article 15 still happened, court martials still happen. Things happen in theater that need to be addressed. You don't be like, oh, we'll we'll deal with that when we get back to home station. No, I mean, if there needs to be uniform code of military justice proceedings, they have to happen over there. And that wasn't something that we thought that much about pre-deployment. But when you get into theater, then you realize that no, I mean, it's we're still living within this system, even though we're in a different environment and even though there are different rules of engagement that we don't have back at home station, we still all operate under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and you still have, you know, your regular UCMJ proceedings. Now, I've seen interesting courtroom setups overseas. And but I think, and for me and for a lot of other guys, that in a way was reassuring because when we deployed overseas and we deployed to places like Iraq and others, there's something in the back of your head that wants you to know that hey, we're still governed by the rules and regulations that the military has. Just because we're over in this weird environment, it's different.
SPEAKER_04Just because they're not following.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it doesn't mean that it's the wild west. It doesn't mean that, oh, well, hey, this is war. This is different. You can do whatever you want. Exactly. Exactly. And so that for me was reassuring to let the soldiers know that hey, just because you're over in Iraq or Afghanistan does not mean that the rules are any different, the laws are any different, and the UCMJ doesn't go away.
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean, what's the UCMJ for? Good order and discipline. Yeah, right. And that's ultimately the good order and discipline and justice, right? And and sometimes in weird ways they conflict. But uh it's cool. Well, let's talk about the Virginia War Memorial. Okay. What is it?
SPEAKER_00It is Virginia's memorial to those that have paid the ultimate sacrifice in our wars. We have a four-part mission that is to honor our veterans, preserve their history, educate, and inspire patriotism. And within that four-part mission, we can do so many different things to simply get people to understand, first off, why we have nearly 12,000 names listed in our shrine of memory, starting with World War II all the way up into the most recent conflicts of Virginians that were killed in action. Kind of give it some context and you know why those names are there in the first place. But also, and hopefully, give people a real appreciation of what it means to lay down your life for your country and what that sacrifice means, not only for those individuals, their families, but for the community at large. So it's a living memorial. It's a memorial, it's a museum and education center that has grown over time. In 1956, it was just the shrine of memory that shows the names from World War II in Korea when 1956 when it first was dedicated. And then names were added after Vietnam, you know, and include the names of Virginians that were killed in Vietnam, and then they added the names of seven Virginians killed during Operation Desert Storm. And then in 2010, I think Virginia had the really good idea. Members of the General Assembly, members of the community, and that was to create a museum and education center to make this a living memorial, not just have it be a monument, but have it be an actual living memorial. And so the Paul and Phyllis Galani Education Center was built and dedicated in 2010, and that's when we assumed our four-part mission, where education was central to that, preservation was central to that, and also the inspiring patriotism piece became central to this war memorial. So it wasn't just about seeing names on a wall, it became about understanding the history of those names or stories and kind of military history in general. We continued to grow the memorial in 2017. We broke ground in 2020, we cut the ribbon on an expansion that doubled the size of the Virginia War Memorial so that we could do more things, larger event spaces, improved our research library, and also added a shrine of memory space that we could include all the names of Virginians that had died in wars after Desert Storm, like Global War on Terrorism. We had to honor those names in the same way. So it really has become in the past 25, 30 years, I think, one of the very best examples in the country of how a community can honor veterans, honor those that have made the ultimate sacrifice, and then learn about service to the country, learn about the military. And in doing so, a lot of people, I think, don't know how they personally can do something to appreciate veterans or say thank you to veterans or just show their appreciation for what veterans do for us. But simply visiting the war memorial and engaging with our programs and ceremonies, that in of itself is a means of honoring veterans. And that's what we've tried to create is a place where people can do that. And even though it's the Virginia War Memorial, we encourage people from all across the country to stop by and see it when they can, because in the first place, it's important we think to do so. I think we'll get they'll really enjoy their time there. But in a way, it's kind of an example, model for other states to see, hey, if we're really serious about remembering the sacrifice of those that have laid down their lives for us, if we're serious about honoring veterans, then something like this is worth it. It really is.
SPEAKER_04Is it common in other states to have something like that?
SPEAKER_00No. It really and we've looked, we've done our homework to try and see how we compare to other states. And there is not a single other facility like the Virginia War Memorial that combines the memorial aspect with active programming and exhibits and community-focused activities. There's a few good museums out there. Indiana has a good veterans museum, Wisconsin has a good veteran museum, and they're fine institutions in their own right, but we've been able to combine a number of different elements to include live stream programming and lecture series and really just focus on reaching out to the community and bringing all different types of people together. One thing I really like to do at the memorial is connect the civilian community with the military community because that doesn't always happen naturally. Sometimes people stay within their own orbits, and it's really great to look out at one of our ceremonies, Memorial Day, Veterans Day, or something like that, and see not only military veterans and military affiliate people, but just you know, supportive citizens that come out that don't necessarily have a veteran in their family, but they feel like it's the right place to be.
SPEAKER_04What are some examples of that sort of interaction between the public and veterans?
SPEAKER_00Well, like I mentioned, our our ceremonies, you'll get everybody together in our amphitheater and we'll observe Memorial Day or Veterans Day. And then the really cool thing that happens is after one of these ceremonies, a lot of people will drift into the memorial to look at our exhibits and displays, and you'll start to see conversations spark up. Someone will see a Vietnam veteran there with their hat on or something like that, and they'll just simply walk up and you know, just ask them, what did you do? Were you, oh, you're in the Navy or something? What was that like for you? And that's the real gold, I think, right there is just getting these people together. Because I'm a believer in the power of storytelling, and obviously what you guys are doing here with this podcast really hits on that, is in a society that worries more and more about disconnect and whether you can blame social media for that or you can blame smartphones or whatever, in a society where people lament the fact that we're kind of losing touch with one another, that the power of storytelling is a means to bring people back together and connect with one another and and through the generations, especially. If you want to get a young Virginian or young student to engage or learn something, if you can produce a good story, that's still a powerful way to do that. Everybody likes a good story, and so that's really where we gear almost all of our programming at the War Memorial, whether it's a display, an exhibit, a program, a live stream program, it's almost always focused specifically on veterans' stories in one way or the other, personal experiences. Because that's what draws people in, that's what engages people.
SPEAKER_03It's funny, it's like that's what so we're a trial firm. Our job is to tell our client story or the story of the betrayal of trust from the uh that led to the injury, right? I mean, everything is storytelling, at least that's what I've come to learn. No, it is. And that's how we connect, right? And there's even the belief that like I did we actually Gray and I both did criminal work. I mean, Gray was a prostitute in the army, I did criminal defense, and I mean that's storytelling too, right? And I and I mean, even the worst of the people, if you are willing to actually take the time to learn their story, there's some redeemable quality.
SPEAKER_00No, absolutely, and there's always something to learn from any given story. I can't tell you how many veterans that I've interviewed that at the outset of the interview, they'll say, you know, I really don't have any, you know, sure. I didn't do anything important or I didn't do anything that anybody's going to be interested in. And they'd be shocked. There's always something in every personal story that people are interested in and connect with, or some aspect of that story that somebody will find, huh? You know, that's interesting. I didn't know that, or I didn't think about that, or it's just, you know, I think sometimes people sell themselves short on their own personal story, and they think that, well, nobody's gonna be interested in that. And you know, yeah, you'd be surprised. Yeah, you'd be surprised. I think we've we've all listened to podcasts that on the outset we're like, I don't think that's something I'm gonna really dig or be interested to. And then 10 minutes into you're like, How am I so interested in this guy's story? This is crazy.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03What was it about the Virginia War War Memorial that drew you to it?
SPEAKER_00I was teaching, I retired from the Army and I was teaching military history down at Fort Lee, which is once again Fort Lee, at the Command and General Staff College. We did learn it's a different Fort Lee, though. Yeah, it's a different name, name for a different Lee. Right. Yes. And I'd been there for about a year teaching, and it was great. I love teaching military history, and I was teaching Army officers as a graduate level course. And somebody, and I can't remember who, mentioned to me that the Virginia War Memorial was looking for a new director. They'd only had one. My predecessor, John Hatfield, who is really instrumental in getting the war memorial built and open, he did some fantastic work there at the memorial, that he was retiring. They suggested that, oh, you know, you should throw your hat in the ring for that. I had no expectation that they would be interested in me. I thought that they would be looking for somebody like a retired general or something, somebody with a little more gravitas and stars or something like that. And I was like, well, I'm just a retired lieutenant colonel. This is not really gonna impress anybody. But apparently I checked some boxes that they were looking for as far as the history background and the service and of Virginia connection, I think. And so it was just a bit of a natural fit. And again, I was a little caught off guard because I didn't necessarily think that I possessed what they were looking for at the at the memorial. And to be honest, I had visited once or twice. I didn't know it as well as I probably should have going into it. But again, I was just so honored when they asked me to do it. I felt like, holy cow, this is a huge responsibility to try and take this great, wonderful facility into the future. And from the minute I got there, the biggest challenge I've put towards myself is how can we continue to be creative and engaging and true to the mission because we want to just grow our community. That doesn't just mean bringing more people to the war memorial every year, which we want to do, but it also means extending our influence throughout the Commonwealth. We don't want this to be the Richmond War Memorial. We want people in the Shenandoah Valley, we want people on the Eastern Shore, people down in Big Stone Gap to know about us and to have access to our programming as well. And why is that important? It it's just because it was always been the intention that the Virginia War Memorial is there for every Virginian, for all Virginians. And we want everyone, no matter where they live in the state of Virginia, to know that the Virginia War Memorial is there for them, for their community. It carries on the stories of their sons and daughters that have died in service to the country. And we just want them to feel that, hey, even though we live three hours away in a different small town, that war memorial located in Richmond is still representing us and our stories and our history as well.
SPEAKER_03For the person who's never heard of the Virginia War Memorial, right? And actually, and I'll be candid, I mean, before moving to Richmond, I didn't know. Yeah. I mean, I grew up in Northern Virginia for the most part. I didn't and when and when I heard Virginia War Memorial, I thought, well, it's just a memorial. I didn't realize, or frankly, have the expectation that there was this whole educational center and museum attached to it. For the person who knows nothing, or let's say is listening to this podcast and hears of the Virginia War Memorial for the very first time, why would you want them to make that trip?
SPEAKER_00There's a couple ways you could answer that. One, I honestly believe there's a certain responsibility or duty of all of us that enjoy the freedoms that we have to at least acknowledge why we have those freedoms. And uh one of those very specific reasons is that because Americans throughout our country's history have stepped forward and paid the ultimate sacrifice to preserve those freedoms. And the longer I'm at this job, the more I know that that's not just a line, that's not just a good-sounding slogan or motto. I honestly believe that having learned the stories and met the Gold Star families and understanding how those sacrifices connect to the world that we live in now, that I feel there's a certain duty and responsibility that people should at least be aware. And visiting the war memorial is a great way to gain that awareness. But also, what we've tried to achieve there over the years is there's something for everybody at the Virginia War Memorial. Even if you're not particularly interested in military history, there's still compelling human history stories represented there. Everything from Virginia's Medal of Honor gallery to we just set up the newest exhibit for our Veterans Art Gallery. That was one thing we wanted to do with the expansion, is we wanted to show that veterans are multifaceted people. They aren't the same person wearing a uniform with different last names. Veterans are a cross-section of America with all different kinds of interests and talents and all those types of things, and one of those being artwork. And so we've created an art gallery that allows veteran artists to show their work. And as I like to say, we're not just showing the work of veterans who happen to have been artists, we're showing the work of artists who have also happened to have been veterans and served in the military. And so we just put up a new exhibit today, and it's it's fantastic. I love it. People, a lot of people will just kind of take a chance on the war memorial, like, oh, I've got an hour or so, I'll just stop by. I've never been in. And almost to the visitor, they are thoroughly pleasantly surprised and impressed with what they see.
SPEAKER_04What are some of the programs or things since you've come on as director that you're most proud of?
SPEAKER_00Our preservation efforts, we've redoubled our efforts in there, and that's to simply sit down with as many Virginian veterans as possible and capture their story, as you guys are doing with this podcast, because history is fleeting. And word of mouth history is good, but unpreserved history disappears. It goes away. People don't remember. You know, my grandfather told me something once, but I can't really remember what they said. So the act of preserving veterans' stories and getting them captured, then you know you have them. Then you know you have them for future generations. And even if you don't need those stories immediately, you can always reach back and gather those. And we just did that with the recent exhibit. It was D plus 80, Virginians and the Normandy Invasion. We were able to feature 30 different World War II veterans stories that we captured back in the 90s and have had on file since then. Every single one of those World War II veterans has since passed on. But we were able to give those stories new life in this exhibit. And we can do so again 20, 30, 40 years from now because they're preserved. And I sometimes I think people don't understand just how crucial it is to capture, preserve that history. So anybody listening to this podcast, I encourage you, just a family member, grandparent, parent, brother, whatever, sit down with them some night when you've got some time, turn on your phone, record their story. Even if it's like one of those, well, what do you want to know? I you know, have them talk you through their story because you don't understand their history as much as they think you do. They don't remember what they've told you, and you're not going to remember it five years from later or something like that. Get it recorded, get it preserved while you can.
SPEAKER_03Are the very lessons that you and your team at the Virginia War Memorial are trying to impart on a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. And that that inspire patriotism aspect of our mission, I think is so important now. And the weird thing is, 10 years ago when I started the War Memorial, I probably wouldn't have said that. I probably wouldn't have said, like, oh, we've got to inspire patriotism. But in these current times, and you know, and you can look at the stats and the surveys and all those types of things, as far as young Americans who, you know, claim that they're proud to be American or not. I do think that there's a real need to make an active effort to promote the values of this country in America and try and inspire people to be proud of their country. Obviously, it's not a perfect nation, never was intended to be perfect, but there's so many different things about this country that people can and should be proud of, and you want to promote that.
SPEAKER_03This has been a really good episode. So thank you so much for joining us. One of the questions that would love to, I think, end with is really simple. How can we help? How can we help you? How can our listeners help the mission of the Virginia War Memorial? What can we do to spread the word?
SPEAKER_00Well, first and foremost, whenever people get the chance, we want people to visit the War Memorial. Just come see the Virginia War Memorial, see the names in the Shrine of Memory, and then look at our exhibits. And just that act of visiting the war memorial means a lot to us. It really does. And it means a lot to the families of the names of who are enshrined there. But also just simply go online, Virginia War Memorial, uh, VA Warmemorial.org website, or you can just Google Virginia War Memorial, and you'll come into contact with our programs who watch some of we have a series of documentaries, Virginians at War, that are available on YouTube and just listen to the stories. They're great, captivating, wonderful stories. And in doing that, in simply doing that, you are doing your own little bit of appreciation and honoring veterans by just simply absorbing their story. So whether it's online, whether it's in person, or whether it's just telling other people about the war memorial. Even if it's like, hey, I listened to this podcast, I heard about this Virginia War Memorial in Richmond, and I can't get there, but I hear you guys are going to Richmond. Why don't you check it out? Just word of mouth is a great help to us as well.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much. I look forward to staying in touch and look forward for our firm. We use the war memorial a lot. So we'll be back there for our event in October. And we're actually, I as I mentioned before the podcast, we're planning to start a education series for travelers on a quarterly basis, Swell. So great. We're big fans. So thank you again, sir.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_03Thanks, Clay.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for listening to this episode of The People Who Make Virginia by Gray Broaden Injury Law. If we can ever be of help to you, give us a call at 877-VetsWin. That's 877-V-E-T-S-W-I-N.