Archie Menezes on Rock Bottom and Resilience | Hidden Foundations Ep. 4

In this episode of Hidden Foundations, Kendall Schoenrock sits down with Archie Menezes to explore the life experiences that shaped his resilience, leadership, and entrepreneurial mindset. Archie shares how a head injury ended his banking career, brought him close to depression, and forced him to rebuild from rock bottom with the help of therapy, faith, family, and lifelong friendships.

The conversation moves from Archie’s childhood in India and his father’s sacrifice abroad, to the lessons of gratitude, support systems, and “fail fast” thinking. Archie also breaks down his current work in microbiome science, AI, precision medicine, and how gut health may shape the future of recovery, longevity, and pharmaceutical innovation.

Chapters: 

00:00 Cold Open: Rock Bottom, Fail Fast, and Microbiome Science
00:52 Meet Archie Menezes
01:08 From HSBC Banker to Unexpected U.S. Journey
03:45 The Head Injury That Forced a Career Pivot
05:46 Therapy, Support Systems, and a Second Chance
12:17 Childhood in India and the Roots of Resilience
16:37 His Father’s Sacrifice and Understanding the Why
25:06 Parenting, Communication, and Teaching Toughness
28:05 Startup Signals, Trust, and the Microbiome Opportunity
48:31 Building the Right Team and Knowing What Not to Do
55:51 Gratitude, Perspective, and Final Reflections

A special thank you to The Franklin on Rittenhouse for graciously allowing us to record these episodes inside their hotel. Their hospitality, atmosphere, and attention to detail gave us the perfect setting to host thoughtful conversations and bring Hidden Foundations to life in Philadelphia.
Check out their hotel here: https://www.thefranklinonrittenhouse.com/
https://www.instagram.com/franklinonrittenhouse/


Hidden Foundations is a weekly podcast hosted by entrepreneur and investor Kendall Schoenrock, examining how family systems, early adversity, and childhood dynamics quietly shape high-performing adults. Each conversation uncovers the “invisible wiring” behind resilience, ambition, leadership, and grit — told through candid stories from entrepreneurs, athletes, creators, and leaders.

Guided by the thesis that strength is forged early at home, the show uses a consistent framework to explore emotional environments, money narratives, family roles, conflict patterns, and early challenges. Every episode delivers at least one practical, repeatable insight for parents, leaders, and anyone seeking to understand how greatness is built long before it’s visible.

Subscribe to Our Newsletter: https://hiddenfoundations.com/#newsletter

Learn more or connect with Kendall:
Website: https://kendallschoenrock.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schoenrock/
SilverRock Ventures: https://silverrockventures.com/about-us/
YouTube: youtube.com/@HiddenFoundationsPod
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6VKN6BBbuVxNDl4zKh4E3O?si=0c56c9aebfaf402e
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hidden-foundations/id1895154229

#HiddenFoundations #Entrepreneurship #Resilience

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Whether it's business or personal, fail but fail fast. I had a head injury at work. How much worse can it get? You know, I'm already I'm already at rock bottom.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

What are some examples of where parents with athlete kids can go to learn more about leveraging this technology or these the this research to help enhance the the performance of their kids?

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Here's the biggest problem. There are a lot of micro bottom companies. Okay, none of them are able to get it past the FDA uh hoodle.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

What's different with us is joining us for another episode of the Hidden Foundations Podcast. I'm here today with Archie Menezes, who is a serial entrepreneur, a startup founder. Uh talk to me a little bit about your journey. How did you end up here outside of Philadelphia? And uh what are you currently working on?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

First of all, thank you for having me here. It's an absolute pleasure. Well, what brought me to the United States was I used to be a banker in my yesterday. Okay. I was regional head with a bank uh called HSBC. And uh I what brought me to the US was uh an intra-company move within HSBC. And how did I land here is uh is actually a crazy story. Uh I had an accident in my life where I had a head injury at work, and uh because of tunnel vision and my inability to look at screens, there was uh, you know, there was no way for me to continue in banking. And uh, you know, and sometimes extenuating circumstances, you know, put you in a position to do things that you wouldn't otherwise think you'd even do when you have, you know, a comfortable life, a paycheck coming. It it doesn't make you really take those risks to do things that you uh, you know. So yeah, that's my story. And uh that's when I uh this is about eight and a half years ago, is when I started a geospatial analytics company because back in the day, uh I did a lot of uh credit lending, by the way, with uh on the banking side. So, you know, studying uh financials, uh cash cycles, whether it's receivables financing or asset-based lending or balance sheet financing, whatever it is. So uh uh had a very deep understanding of businesses and how they function. So I always looked for, and I still do, I look for tipping points in you know, uh in markets or industries or you know, or policies or what have you. And um, and that's where I place my bets. And at that time, uh satellite imagery was just about beginning to get uh commoditized. It was earlier used by government and military and so on and so forth. So there's a commercial aspect that I, you know, that I knew would take off. So with my tunnel vision, I wasn't allowed, I was rehabbing for 10 months and I had all the time in the world to you know to put this together with a childhood friend of mine, actually. We met when we were three and a half years old in kindergarten.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

So he was my partner. And you know, I've I've been blessed with good people that I could rely on. So despite my uh you know, my uh being incapacitated, I did have that support system with uh, you know, with good friends and and good partners.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

So let me let me drill into one one aspect of this, which I I I'm curious about. So I think if if you had a serious injury and and you were somewhat offline, um, it would be very easy to not have the resiliency or the determination to explore a new startup and to try something new. Where did that come from for you? Why was it in this time period in in your life that you decided this is the best time for me to do a startup?

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Uh good question. Great question. So, some perspective. Uh, every time, you know, we looked at providing businessmen with facilities, and uh, you know, you drill deep into the finances, and these are decently sized businesses, you know, 15, 20, 30 million, and you you you go down to the uh you know to the analytics of it and ask them questions like, hey, uh you know, what's your customer lifetime value or what's your cost of customer acquisition? And you know, you very often, I'll tell you, you get Duran headlights kind of look, and I'm like, one of the things that occurred to me was, you know, dude, if if I ran a business and I ran a watertight ship, you know, I uh that's all that was always in my subconscious mind, but I didn't have the guts to do it. And I'll be honest with you, I was I was very, very scared at at that point in time. And uh, you know, I I did seek help. I I went and uh sought help because uh I was very close to depression at that time because uh because of the uncertainties, and uncertainties push you. Um, you know, I I think for me people react differently to uncertainties, and for me, my thought process was how much worse can it get? You know, I'm already I'm already at rock bottom. Sure. The only way, the only way is up. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

So let me let me drill in on that. When you when you say you you sought help, was that through traditional talk therapy?

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Uh I I saw a therapist for some time. Uh the good thing is, uh uh I come from a family of uh my sister is a therapist as well, but she put me in touch with someone that's also a life coach, if you know what I mean. So uh the way um, you know, I've I've seen how therapists typically go, but this person was more than just a therapist for me, you know. Help me um, you know, help me along the way to to understand that, you know, it's uh it's okay if if you have to take the time to take a step back and getting that that kind of um you know support was good. Uh I've had uh amazing, I'm in touch with my childhood friends since we've been with my kindergarten friends. In fact, one of them was my partner. So for me, you know, those kind of uh you know relationships when you have someone that puts his hand on the shoulder on your shoulder and says, listen, we spoke about this six months ago. I'm I'm ready to pull the trigger, give up what I'm doing, and do this with you. I have faith in you. And you know, and you know, those kind of uh uh you know relationships and you know, when you have people on your corner, it gives you a a different kind of an impetus. And I I felt that uh I wouldn't I would never have been able to do it alone, Kendall. I mean, I I want to be very clear about that. You know, I had good people on my side who gave me that confidence to say, you know, and and quite honestly, it's for me it was it was like a it was a second chance at life, because I I had no idea what was what was in store for me. And uh I come from a place where we are taught to be grateful for what we have. Uh a lot of people actually told me, hey, it happened at your workplace, you can sue your bank for, you know, whatever. But the part of me was I'm like, listen, I'm in the States because of what they did for me. They moved me internationally, they gave me the opportunity, and it's not that they did it on purpose. It was, you know, you had a vault below a staircase with a metal beam. I mean, it was just there, you know. I I should have I should have looked up and you know, somewhere I also blame myself for it. So so for me that gratefulness is something that that has always carried me through. And I I didn't I I didn't sue or do anything. I just wanted to get okay. But uh yeah, for me that adversity makes you uh when you have uh when you have a lot of options, you're kind of spoilt. But when you narrow that down to just one option, and this is do or die, I gotta do it. Uh I I think that kind of focus, you know, there's there's very less chance of failing. Yeah, burn the ships one way forward. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Yeah. So you spoke a little bit about fear and being anxious or being fearful of this new uh startup and the new adventure and the new journey. Did your therapist help you navigate that? Did your friends, did your your lifelong foundation help you the most? Who did you lean into as you navigated those decisions?

SPEAKER_00 9:12

I think it's a combination. I had a lot of people praying for me at that time. And uh, you know, I uh I I had a lot of time on hand, so I uh I don't pray as much, but you know, when I was in you know in the deep hole, I I did spend a lot more time just just to uh just to be okay. I I don't think my prayers at that time were you know for this thing to succeed. I just wanted to be okay because I knew if I was okay, I would, you know, but uh I can't put my finger on one thing, Kendall. It's it's a combination of things, it's a combination of good people around you, uh, good support system. And uh, you know, I think um, you know, a a voice deep within that that also uh tells you you can do it. You know, I I think that that is the biggest thing because my first uh my first month was miserable, you know, and I slowly started building from there because and that's the time I was I had a lot of fear as to uh you know what's gonna happen? Will I even be able to drive a car? Will I even be able to? And the doctors didn't didn't guarantee anything. And uh that was scary. So that's the the fear I had was, you know, will I even will I even come back and and do something?

SPEAKER_02 10:32

And what advice do you have to somebody else that might be going through similar physical or or health-related issues? How do you persevere when times are tar are hard like that?

SPEAKER_00 10:45

I uh I actually have uh I mean I I dedicate some amount of my time to and I'm happy to speak with people at that time and and use this as an instance because um you know not not having a support system or not having people to share with or talk to without being judged is is such an important part of uh of um uh you know that journey. And uh here's the thing, and a lot of people think, hey, I'll go talk to a psychologist or a therapist and that's gonna solve my problem. No, it's not going to. They'll give you uh, you know, they'll give you um a good they listen to you. They might say, hey, you know what, maybe you know you're overthinking, or they might give you some piece, but they're not gonna pull you out of that hole. They're not gonna put that hand on your shoulder and say, hey, you know what, I'm here for you. Right. You know, let's do this. And so I it's it's beyond that. It's it's just it's beyond the um realm of um uh you know, it's a combination of things.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

What I heard is that you still have to do the work. Yeah, they can they can guide you, you have to, but you have to do the work. So if someone else is also in that area where they have physical or health health issues, you're also encouraged and lean into your support structure, but be ready, you have to do the work. You have to.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

There's no one that's gonna do it for you, right? Yeah, you have to.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Yeah, you have to where does that resiliency come from in you? With that pull yourself up by the bootstraps, get through it. Is that from your childhood? Talk to me about how you were raised.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Oh, uh back in India, if you if you said, you know, I at least the prior generation, if you said I came from a good uh Catholic family, it means you're a big family. So my dad was one of 11 kids. He was the second oldest. But uh just after school, uh, you know, he didn't go to college, he was put to work because they had to provide for the other nine kids. So, fast forward, I recollect when I when I was going to school, my dad could continue to study on a part-time basis to enhance his skills. He was very interested in doing mechanical engineering, so he did a diploma. I still remember my mom packing, you know, something for me and something for dad. He had to continue his studies, and then he moved to the Middle East. My mom was a teacher, they just two of us, my sister and me. So we were not the typical Catholic fellow, right? Yeah, in that aspect. But uh uh growing up was hard because uh uh my dad was abroad, or he was in in Saudi, he worked for General Motors. Okay, and he had to do that to earn a little more for us as a family. So we saw him once a year. My mom was a school teacher and uh a strict one at that. So uh yeah, so we uh my earlier uh life was just just with one parent for and uh my sister and me kind of uh have been there for it, it actually brought us a lot closer because everything my mom had to do, you know, go out, buy stuff, cook. We spent a lot of time together. So uh, you know, she's actually my my closest friend and my biggest support system. Uh we're very close. The the reason I moved to the US is because of her. So she's on the West Coast. But uh growing up, uh studies. I don't know if you're aware back in India, uh, there's no concept of social security or anything. Okay. You you your studies is everything, you know, not even sport. Today's sport is something else. Back in the day, uh there's a social stigma attached to it. So if a parent did not educate their children up to a master's level, you you're looked at as uh, you know, as a parent that's not doing their duties, even within the family or within the society. So, right till I finished my graduation, I did my MBA, everything was paid for by my parents. And that's why I'm so grateful. And that's why my dad went abroad to work so he could afford that. The same thing with my sister. So uh yeah, so when I said growing up was was not the easiest. We were uh, you know, uh in in my earlier days, I recollect my my parents, um, I mean, we would we would have uh we loved our meat, we loved our non-vegetarian, but that was once a month, then it became once in 15 days as things started improving, and then it became uh once every weekend. But uh yeah, the values that uh you know uh that uh were inculcated in my sister and me is to be grateful no matter what. And that's that's something that I continue to do. I I I try to look at uh I try not to let negativity pull you down. And even in those circumstances, I had my uh my parents and my sister come and spend the first one month with me when I was absolutely down and out, and that's the support system. So while I said I had a friend that became my business partner, I had my you know, I had my family with me at that time, which which actually helped me. So yeah, we're very close. And yeah, but that's I mean, uh I think those values that that are earlier instilled, it's about doing the right thing and you know, and and don't try and uh you know just be good. That's that that that's about it. So that's that's what uh you know I was taught as a kid and I continue to continue to try and do that. Yeah, yeah. Very grateful, I'm very grateful.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

So let's talk about your father as he was not around, he was away, there's a sacrifice there. Did he ever address that sacrifice directly with you? Did you acknowledge it? Did he because he he he's sacrificing to be away from the family.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

You know what? Uh during my growing days I didn't realize that. You know, I was uh I was not close to him at all. Um but also when I'd look at other kids and their parents around, uh it did it, you know, I had a lot of questions. Uh you know, where's my dad? You know, I uh whether I used to play sport, I I'm a musician. I used to I I used to play I used to say the opposite uh uh for my concert. I'd keep you know my mom was busy, so sometimes she would come and I'd see other parents and I'd be like, you know, and it it's only later that I realized uh I mean in your teens, at least with me, I you're not able to, you know, connect the dots. Thinking is very it's a very immature uh way of thinking. And uh it's only later, later when I uh when I was even when I was in my undergrad, I didn't, you know, I was like uh I I gotta l I gotta spend a little more time with him during my undergrad days because I used to travel to meet him during our vacation. So I used to see him more often every six months. And you know, we used to go there once a year. He used to come back. Otherwise, it was hard life in Saudi Arabia. He would get 30 days of vacation every year, and he'd come down during Christmas or the summer holidays, and yeah, so it was a very uh disconnected relationship for most of my life. But uh I think later in life, uh once I particularly when I was doing my masters and I, you know, I realized how expensive this whole thing is, uh, understood that, you know, I've I've actually been I've had such an easy ride. And you know, it's it's then that it started uh uh it started kicking in. And uh ever since I I think I yeah, since those days until today, there hasn't been a single day in my life where I've not spoken to him. Wow. I talk to him every morning. He's the first person that I talk to when I wake up. I speak to him and then ask him how my mom is. I uh it deep in my heart I have that you know sense of regret that uh you know I I didn't really I I didn't have a connection with him. I built that connection so much later in life. And uh yeah, and I'm grateful for that because I you know I uh he's he's a growing you want to look at a father figure, right? You and if he's not around it's it's really hard to um you know, but now when I think about it, despite the distance, um I think he showed us what a father uh should do, you know, because I think uh he made a bigger sacrifice than any of us.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

You know when you were a child, did that manifest as anger? Were you mad at your dad for not being there? Did you make you feel unloved? I I thought he didn't care.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

But it was the opposite. It was the opposite. He went there for our sake. He would he went there to to give me a good life. Growing up I didn't realize that at all. And that guilt, you know, I I I wish I was a you know I I didn't understand this growing up. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Do you think it would have helped if he would have told you the why? Or do you think you wouldn't have heard it?

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Back in the day there were no mobile phones, you know, and calling internationally was extremely expensive. Once in 15 days or or once a month, we'd get to talk for three minutes, and that itself was very expensive. So, you know, so th those were factors that added to it as well.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

You know, I live next to uh the I was born and raised in uh the middle of Kansas next to an army base. And oftentimes you would see uh the troops deploy and the father figure or the the one of the right would would leave and you have uh a similar structure of sacrifice by a parent that may not be fully recognized by the the kids at that time. And there's some similarities that I that I see with uh father figure sacrificing for their families or for their kids that uh is um you know, I would have classmates that were in a very similar situation, and I'm not sure uh if uh knowing that death

SPEAKER_00 22:00

is a way for a specific reason helps or if um that is fully comprehended by by the the kids and and that's something i i i think is is worth exploring yeah it uh it strikes us a lot later in life though because i you're right there's there's a lack of communication huge lack of communication and that time it had to do with you know other factors like you know not not having the resources or the means to you know to talk to him like to or to talk to a child like the way it is done today but uh you know in h hindsight is a good thing it makes you realize yeah in in hindsight I think uh given the the situation that uh the first for the first two years of my life I was with my grandparents at their house because everything my dad earned went back to the family so at uh 35 or you know whenever you know we moved to a house of our own it was like him starting from scratch and that's why you know he had to look for greener pastures to you know to go and uh uh you know figure out means to get more money and he never deprived us of anything under the sun we always had uh I wanted a bike during my undergrad days no questions asked I got everything I asked for but you know to be a provider and you know it's also India at that time was uh you know was still you know uh was still at an early development stage so you know it wasn't a rich country you'd had you know you had to and the Middle East going to the Middle East was it's it was tax-free income so that's another i it it does add up over a period of time so yeah I think um somewhere uh you know I I wish someone uh the only thing my mom used to uh tell us was you know he's there because of you he's there for all of us but you know you hear that for the 15th time and you're like okay he's there for us so okay it it doesn't really you know uh I I wish someone actually understanding those optics at a young age is also hard uh you know I think now it's uh people talk about it a lot more how old were you when you really comprehended it and understood the why uh I was I was in my I was uh between my 18 20 years old.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

I always joke with my parents that my parents got a lot smarter when I went to college yeah I should that's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Yeah so you know it's around that time but I think my teens were were very very oh I just didn't understand I I thought we were a very disjointed family and I'm like what the heck whatever and I I just carried on with yeah so how has that shaped you and in and how um you're ra you have two daughters now that you're uh helping to raise that how has that shaped you in in this new structure for you you know being more communicative being more uh being open being um you know telling them the why is I think the most important thing nobody told me the why he's doing that for you I mean but you know having deeper conversations more often is uh is is very um you know is a is a very important part of any relationship not taking that not taking that piece for grounded so yeah it's it's just making sure you know uh you you take the trouble to uh hear them out and and and and uh use every opportunity you can to communicate so the gratitude and the positive outlook that your mother instilled on you early in childhood how are you passing that to your family? Oh my mother was a kick ass mom she if uh if there's someone that uh taught me to who who never gave up she she did everything she used to ride a scooter at that time uh you know with gears on it so it wasn't a gearless scooter so you know if I learned resilience in life it's you know it's it's from her and how are you passing them on to your daughters? Uh teaching them to be tough I'm tough with them when they have when they have to be uh there are times I I want them to not really not you know I want them to feel a little bit of the pain to see what it takes to you know I I let them fall but you know make sure they don't fall too hard but you know I uh and that's a that's a very important part of because I've I've fallen down numerous times but I've understood uh what not to do on my own and you know that comes from those little falls that you have get up dust yourself and and move on but you know you uh you know I I I don't believe in mollycoddling anyone too much because you you want them to you want them to uh uh you know have their own journey but you know but also allow them to uh how do I say this I whether it's business or personal fail but fail fast don't you know don't take it slowly and and wait for that one day for that big fall to happen you know so I'm I'm a big believer in you know do the little things fail but learn and you know pivot if you have to but fail fast that's what I I tell everyone you know do you apply that in startup world as well 100% yes yeah so let's talk about your your current startup journey what are you working on uh in the startup space and and how are you applying some of the lessons you learned uh in early childhood in life to your new business oh that's that's a great one so uh the the companies I sold had to had to do with uh I I looked at I looked at uh trigger events and markets and that's that's what you know that's what drives me to uh I've been an investor in a few companies but if I've uh I'm not someone that's that writes a check I'm someone that participates usually as a CFO because I I make sure that you know you're you know we dot I's and cross our T's and take it to a stage where I'm able to then at least bring it to a stage where it gets funding and then I you know I say okay fine now it's uh so the two exits I've had have typically been been you know that's the route I've taken uh the thing that I looked at with this startup uh it's called specialized biotics uh back in 2023 uh December for the first time the FDA approved live microorganisms to be put into therapeutic drugs so for me that's a big trigger event never before you know has that happened and if we look at trends uh two months ago the NIH stopped funding of uh animals in clinical trials yeah so it's all heading in in in in one direction and uh so again for me trust is a big part in business i i just because i meet someone and you know we you know we click we we drink the same scotch or we support the same team doesn't mean nothing to me it takes a long time for me to build that trust you know and so the guy that uh I'm working with is uh someone that's been in that's been b making drugs for the last 25 years someone I went to undergrad school with so for me that's important right uh one thing in uh I've I've I've had failures in business but I've seen the failures have happened when you have to look over your back to you know and for me that's a big no no i i I've learned enough to say hey you know what I it it that is a toxic relationship so yeah what we're doing right now everybody talk about AI and uh you know putting a ton a ton of money to figure out you know buying patterns and what have you I'm on the board of a company that's responsible for that that does responsible AI where you help banks and financial institutions so I guide that company I help them with uh you know with their go to market and uh so we put guardrails around regulation to make sure that you know you're compliant at all times there's no data drift there's no hallucination and what have you so but what I'm doing on the human side is there's uh our bodies are filled with millions of bacteria you know and and they uh how each of those interact with each other is is what the study of microbiome is and uh coincidentally the the c the team that took uh cirrus bio biotherapeutics to uh get the FDA approval and took them public are the four members there are my co-founders in this new business in addition to Sohang who's the who's my um classmate from uh undergrad so there are five of us who who are doing this and uh the long story short we're using uh uh to understand the correlation between that millions of bacteria it's very important to it's it's uh you need ai for that you know so long story short it's going to be a data and AI company where you're actually looking at uh um you know specialized strains of bacteria studying how they interact on people uh on people and we're actually creating drug candidates for uh for the pharma industry that's that's the long story short so I'm not overly familiar with this space so I have a couple of questions here because I don't fully comprehend sure the the nuance of the trigger event that you saw and how that impacts where you're going now.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Great.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

So break down for me as somebody who's not overly familiar with what you indicated was the the specific trigger event that led you to walk the path to to the startup um a couple of things the trigger event was the FDA allowing uh live bacteria to be in therapeutic drugs let me give you a couple of examples we're working with uh we're working with a company that actually supplies specialized meals to athletes okay okay they're amongst the top two companies that do this now basketball players or bodybuilders who are competitive in sports they they they're very careful about what they eat because if they're steroids and you know they can get suspended so that's why they they have very controlled meals that are packaged and sent to them uh you know in a tampo proof so what's the biggest uh uh problem for sports people it's lactic acid buildup it's lactic acid buildup so what we do is we provide them with we've got something called uh or rather the symbiotics that we build or the pre and probiotics that we build for them is bacteria that feeds on uh lactic acid okay and we study uh we also collect their stool samples to study the kind of uh you know uh the kind of reaction of their uh the their microbiomes and that actually helps us create studies with muscle atropy another classic example the biggest cause of uh liver toxicity is ammonia buildup in your liver so uh our body can't excrete uh ammonia and uh you know in such cases we actually look at specific bacterial strains uh that convert that feed on that convert ammonia to ammonium and your body can excrete ammonium so these are it's it's very it's precision medicine and it's it's uh you know it's uh it's it's absolutely uh you know 99% of what's out there is snake oil there's no such thing as uh you know they give you a tub of curd and say you know there's so much of bacteria there it it means nothing because uh you know what you you you need uh the the the form the form that you consume this in it has something called uh uh alligatonins it needs to be converted to eulorithin your body needs to have eulorithin to actually convert that and uh to convert that uh yogurt into the right uh you know uh probiotic for you otherwise it's of no use so what we're doing is um you know uh absolute science based uh products that we are not selling anything we're doing a B2B to c model so we uh and what that does is it gives us data in addition to our tie-ups with hospitals and all of that and uh I'm I'm the only non-science guy I did okay in my undergrad my specialization was microbiology before I went on to do uh my master's in uh MBA in finance and so I have a fairly decent idea about my basics in microbiology is pretty pretty solid but aside from me they are they all PhDs from Yale Princeton Harvard and uh MIT and I'm I'm the only um but yeah I'm I'm the business guy that actually helps them with you know on the on the business side of it so yeah it's it's an awesome team who've been and that's another thing I always bet on I I don't take everything on my shoulders I look for a good team that you know that that's there to execute and uh yeah I also I also look at uh what the market commands for such uh you know if if I look at the valuations of companies that have just the data it's it's in the hundreds of millions there's a company that um that did microbiome studies during COVID and they shut down because once COVID was gone it was nobody needed that but that data sold for 250 million wow just that data so this is not going to be about uh uh but to gather that data you you have to do a few different things but at the end of the day it's it's uh you know it's it's a data and AI company we've yeah let me pull this back to parenting for a starting because you said a couple of things in there that I think are are interesting and I want to try to make them real or or tangible let's use my daughters as an example.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

You talked about nutrition in terms of athlete performance and impacting what you're feeding athletes to elevate performance. How does that how how can you make that real or tangible for a listener or a parent that has kids that where you're trying to to help figure out the right nutrition to keep them focused in school or to maximize performance on the the field?

SPEAKER_00 37:58

That's such a profound question. Yeah so uh first of all with the athletes I don't think we can what we're working on is helping them recover fast. Okay. You know it's not going to enhance their performance but it's gonna help them with recovery. Um there are the study of microbiomes is uh has picked up so much in the recent past first of all drug efficacy or um you know the success rates with your clinical trials is less than 5%. The reason our drugs are so expensive is because there's a 95% failure. You have to fund the failures as well to fund the failures. With the with now with uh the reason there's a gold rush for microbiomes is because that is getting flipped. You're using app I mean what what was the uh earlier trend you have chemicals you put them into animals and and see how they react and then look at doing the same thing with humans. No you're putting right now with microbiomes you're putting bacteria derived from humans and plants doing your lab studies it's it's not gonna have the same effects as a chemical on people not at all so it's it's a much it's a much more uh and and the test that you're doing for example you know converting ammonia to ammonium is you know is is something that's that's extremely uh targeted and so there are different diseases so uh we're actually working with uh uh a slightly more senior group uh I think because they are from family offices they wanted us to do something with Parkinson's disease they said can you you know so we we actually getting some uh you know some research from so the head of gastroenterology at Harvard is on our advisory board as well and he's our chief medical uh uh consultant so he's actually helping us you know get get get uh get a little more information around that so it depends on what kind of uh uh study you want to do you know you you focus on that because the generic probiotics is is uh you know has no meaning with with this you know with the study of microbiomes getting deeper and deeper it's it's very targeted if you if you know what I mean so if there's something that's for concentration or you know the mental health those are those are areas we've not touched upon uh you know we've we but yeah I mean eventually with time we is I mean we we do intend to uh look at those kind of uh critical areas that Parkinson's is another uh you know our our tagline is you know people talk about longevity but you know living those lives l living that life uh putting life into your longevity is more important sure so that's that's our tagline and that's that's what what I like about this is uh there's deep science and what I did earlier also was you know involve deep science we were we were decoding satellite data and making sense of what using a machine learning and AI when about eight years ago when it was not even spoken about it was still early days the booms in the last four years so uh I'm I believe the same thing is is is bound I mean is is happening in the microbiome space but there's also a lot of um a lot of other factors for example you need some and the we're looking at uh a lot of patents as well for example uh none of the probiotics we we take and or we consume today have an engrafting element okay we what's in an engrafting element is you need it to stick to a membrane okay and only then is it you know is it uh do you're able to get the full benefit of it otherwise it's if it's just a pass through without an engrafting element it's it's of no use. Right. So yeah so those are those are the uh those are some of the uh elements that you know that uh that we put into what we um you know into what we produce as a formula so we produce formulas for others and and we sell that we license that so we win we'll never gonna we're never gonna be a B2C company.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

Right. But uh but some of your clients are have the consumer facing products.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Yeah yeah absolutely and and what are some examples of where parents with athlete kids can go to learn more about leveraging this technology or these the this research to help enhance the the performance of their kids it's uh it's still it's still so early part of uh I mean um there's there's there's two parts in uh in our future journey one is uh we're working with uh uh the Wharton School of Business coincidentally the the management chair of Wharton School of Business is is our investor and and also on our board he's a full-time board member and uh the folks there are actually doing uh uh doing a study about uh uh you know with regard to the deep uh uh um you know and it it has to it has to do with how do you um you know educate uh or or create awareness more more than educators about how do you create awareness on uh you know on on the uses of uh of how microbiomes impact different people and at different stages uh Microbiomes are never the same, by the way. I could, you know, I could travel to India, eat something else, and it behaves differently. So, you know, and uh what we are working on is uh uh a cohort of about uh 100,000 people, and that's uh uh gathering data from about at least a hundred thousand people, categorizing them differently. Uh, you know, for example, I could be taking heart medication with this, this, this, you could be doing kidney medication and you could be diabetic, I could be so we create cohorts of such people and and then study, you know, study at least uh uh a year's uh cycle. And uh yeah, so that's that's a long story short. So even if someone wants to uh do something with say, hey, I need this for my kids, unless we do a deep study of uh, you know, it it it doesn't really uh it doesn't really cut it. And it's very different from uh, you know, you have people that say that have apps that say, tell us what you ate and okay, ate a pizza, and then you say, okay, this could be the that's consumer grade uh uh data which is w which will not fly, you know, for an for something like an FDA approval. And uh there are companies that say uh you know, we we're gonna create a customized um probiotic just for you. Uh that is scientifically prohibitive in today's world. You can create it for a cohort, but if you have 10,000 customers doing it for this 10,000 people is is is not I mean it's there's no truth to it in the first place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

Do you think that AI will change that to make it potentially feasible?

SPEAKER_00 45:49

In the future, yes, 100%. Particularly, I don't think as yet, but with quantum techniques coming in in the future, yes. Because, you know, even now it's it's very difficult. But I wouldn't say uh it's impossible. But in today's day and age, it's not. It's it's definitely not. And it's still so early in that journey that uh, you know, in the microbiome journey for people to make those kind of claims. Yeah and uh it's uh we we know that it's not uh you know uh it's it's it's scientifically prohibitive, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Yeah. Amazing time to be alive though, right? See this all come together.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

It is, and uh I'm I'm both excited and uh waiting to see what I mean. It's also scary in a way that uh you know, I I have uh the the other opportunity I see is uh you're see more and more uh large companies or large pharma companies run out of uh you know new products. You know?

SPEAKER_02 46:54

So I don't have anywhere else to go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

So this is, you know, I I'm I'm I'm a believer that so you were asking about the trigger event. These are the things I look, they are the signals I look at.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

And then how do you how do you decide? You you obviously had an inflection point where you looked at all the different trigger events and then you said, this is the one that I'm gonna go and shape a company about. Why is this specific trigger event different or better or preferred over the other ones that you're mapping at the same time? Because it's not a single trigger event, right? There's multiple. I mean, we've we've talked about a few in this conversation already.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

Yeah, yeah. It's I think it's the timing. It's it's just the timing. I mean, the NIH deciding to, you know, stop funding of you know animal-based clinical trials, that's coincidence. But I think the the biggest event was allowing uh so the CEO, my co-founder of this company, had a microbiome company with Gary Rafkin, who won the Nobel Prize last year. Uh, they had a microbiome company seven years ago. But there was no path to monetization. The FDA had no idea what what am I gonna do with this? So there was no uh there was no FDA clearance, so there's no path. So they actually shut it down, you know. So yeah, so people in the team have seen, have done this before, but you know, if there's no path forward, if we're not gonna be able to monetize it, what are you gonna do? So yeah. Yeah, fast. So now so now is that time, you know.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

How do you approach leadership uh with the team and and as you set the culture of your new business? What strategies or techniques are you setting up uh when you hire new new employees or who who's helping to shape the culture of the new business?

SPEAKER_00 48:46

So uh the the CEO and me work closely. We work closely every day. Um and like I said, the only uh everyone else are are very uh deep tech scientists. So for them, understanding the business side of it or even understanding what a fundraise means is is new to them. So there's a lot of trust that you know they've obviously seen So Hong, who's the CEO, he's had three exits. So, you know, they have someone that's been there, done that, and you know, I pretty much manage uh you know everything on the finance and the business side of it. So from a culture standpoint, I think every one of us, there's a there's a lot of deep trust that goes on because everybody comes with a certain area of specialization. You know, Varun used to be the head of AI with uh Cirrus Biotherapeutics. Julie, who's our microbiome head, was head of microbiology at Cirrus Biotherapeutics. Uh Tim, who's the head of data, was like again in that same role in the earlier company. I think we lucked out. For me, having the right team is possibly the most important thing. I can't have someone fresh off the boat who says, you know what, I've studied this, I know my shit, I'm gonna I'm gonna change the world. And you know, uh, here's the biggest problem. There are a lot of microbiome companies, okay. None of them are able to get it past the FDA uh uh hurdle. What's different with us is I have a core team that's done this in the past, that knows not what to do. There are 20,000 people that know what to do, that knows what not to do. You know, and I think that's a key part of uh any business, you know. I'll I can get a 20 people that'll tell me what to do, but understanding what not to do because you save time, you save money, you save uh resources, and your path is a lot faster when you know what not to do. So I think that that's why I'm betting on this team. It's not a team of um freshers, it's experienced folks that uh uh and uh even with my uh earlier company, it was, you know, it was a set of people that that knew you know that had a vision, and that vision backed with I'm I'm a numbers guy, pardon me. The the banker in me is never gonna go out. I I look at everything from a uh from a risk standpoint. Um I might be a blocker in some aspects, uh asking uh more questions, but those questions are more clarifying questions. And once I'm convinced, and you know, then then I step on the gas pedal.

SPEAKER_02 51:34

How much of these conversations do you share with your father as you speak to him? You said basically you talk to him daily now. Is it related to business? Is it more related to personal life?

SPEAKER_00 51:44

It's uh it's more related to uh he's he's a he's an avid uh sports fan. So a cricket. I mean, we he he used to play cricket uh he a lot. So there's always some match going on. So uh that's our favorite topic. Uh-huh. At um, you know, from a business standpoint, I I just give him I just give him the highlights of uh I don't go deep into it because uh he's he was a mechanical engineer. And for him, understanding, you know, leadership or you know, understanding what we do today, he I mean that's uh he I I've tried talking to him a few times and he says, wow, this is great stuff. It's it's very complicated for me. And he's he's honest to say that, but he always gives me a hearing. But uh to your point, there's very little that I can I I talk to him about the successes, about some failures, and sometimes I just need to ramble and yeah, he gives me his ear, and I'm I'm happy with I'm happy about that. But he's no matter what, he's he's always been a he's always been a supporter.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

And for your mental fitness, do you still talk to a traditional talk therapist? Or do you know do you have any other where do you where else do you become a better leader in your business?

SPEAKER_00 53:06

What I what I love about my uh you know, about the person that I I went to about my therapist, she's also a life coach. Her goal was to help me look for symptoms and address them. You know, a lot of people don't do that. You know, and I think enabling people, and I learned from that, you know, enabling people to look at these signs and not ignore them is such a key part of uh you know, is is such a key part of um you know anyone's growth, I would say. Never ignore these signs. So, I mean, for me being able to uh be empowered, you know, and how do you empower someone by you know giving them the tools to deal with whatever situation, you know? So yeah, I think that's that's that's a very important um element.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

Where can people find you online? Where can they talk to you?

SPEAKER_00 54:15

I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on uh I'm on Facebook, I'm on uh I'm on I'm not active on Facebook and Instagram, I just have those accounts, but I um yeah, to answer your question, the other thing I do is I have a good uh ecosystem of friends. Peter, Peter Masterjacomo is one of them. Uh I have uh mentors that uh that have been with me for a long time. So if it's business related, I I pick their brains. And uh I uh yeah, I I have a good set of the good thing with uh my life so far is I've made some great relationships along the way. And it's never been about the money. You know, it's how can I help? And if I can help someone, I I do that. I I mentor three companies right now. And uh, you know, it's it's just um I I I don't try and bite more than I can chew. But yeah, I mean it's I I I make sure I have fun. I think that's the most important thing. So when I wake up the next day, uh, you know, I wanna I want to really look forward to you know how fun this day is gonna be. And that's something I impart to my colleagues and a team as well. You know, if if you're getting up and looking at this as a oh my gosh, I gotta finish this task, maybe, you know, maybe you're having a bad day, but if it's happening every day, you might want to, you know, you might want to rethink how you want it to pan out.

SPEAKER_02 55:51

We've talked about gratitude and how important the gratitude is uh in your upbringing. Um if you had to speak about gratitude to my daughters, what would you say?

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Gratitude comes from um, you know, realizing how much you have and what you have versus people, you know, that don't have that same benefit. You know, it's there's so much going there's so much going around, there's so much happening that uh, you know, it is I'll give you an example. I wanted my uh you know, my daughter just finished her her um uh graduation and uh I introduced her to this uh non nonprofit called Studio Samuel. Studio Samuel uh is a non-profit that helps girl kids in Ethiopia. So back in Ethiopia, because of the poverty, girls are sent to work. Here, people live pay paycheck to paycheck, there you're living meal to meal. Okay, so the little girls are sent into fields to go and work so they could earn their money to buy their food for the day. So Studio Samuel actually works to supply, they are an NGO that supplies food to these girls in school, so that's a motivation for them to say, hey, don't go into the fields, go to school. Go to school, they give you food. The problem that they encounter ten years later is that there are there are lots of uh other aspects that for example, talking about menstruation is a is a taboo in school or at home. I think it's the culture, and uh, you know, and they they didn't know how to deal with you know growing girls. And um so I actually asked my daughter to get on to you know seeing what she can do there. There's the University of Minnesota had a study that they had uh you know that they had FAQs, they had a process outline just for something like this. And my daughter actually built the app for them. It's the first uh uh Google map in the Ethiopian language for these girls. Uh maybe after this, I'd be glad to show you some pictures of how excited they were. So uh she got into uh building this. So no job, sit and do this for the first six to nine months of your life after your gra after your undergrad. Uh what she saw changed her life, or her outlook to life. So sometimes these examples, so for example, these girls didn't know that they could have a shower when they when they had their periods.

SPEAKER_01 58:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 58:54

So things like that are like she's you know really uh you know open your eyes. So sometimes it's it's not about uh it's about exposing them to some of these experiences, and then you're like, wow, where am where so sometimes that practical that you know that practical experience is important. If if I could you know say, hey, you know what, let's do a trip to Asia sometime, or let's do a trip to Haiti, or you know, and seeing is believing, and that that I think causes a lot of uh you know, particularly with the present generation and the example I gave you was with my own child, yeah. You know, I I I want I wanted her to see what's going on and you know and and feel grateful for what you have. We we very often forget that.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 59:50

So yeah, I mean uh this was a classic example. Sorry about digressing into the example is a bit low, but that's great.

SPEAKER_02 59:57

But yeah, I'd love to look at the the the photos. Um I really appreciate your time today in in this discussion. I I found it really fascinating to hear the the twists and turns along the way. I'm glad your health is a lot better and and that uh there's a good recovery there. I'm excited to learn more about your company and um look forward to staying in touch.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

Absolutely. Pleasure as much as thank you for having me here.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:23

Thank you again for joining us on today's Hidden Foundation podcast. Um, the easy and free thing you can do to help us spread the word is like, comment, and subscribe. So if you know of someone that would care about this information, please share this and come with us on our journey. Thank you so much.