I'm Fine?

Behind the pressure to “man up” lies unspoken pain. This episode unpacks Salaton’s journey through trauma, HIV status, and isolation—exploring how shame and silence trap young men, and what it takes to create spaces where they can finally speak.

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:02

This episode contains sensitive content that may be triggering for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Previously, on off script, just because Niman no.

SPEAKER_13 0:18

When you get to say something nasty to a lady or something nasty to your fellow guy, take accountability and say that was wrong.

SPEAKER_07 0:30

Coming up on this episode, McKenna gets personal on the campus at Juiced. Have you ever told another man you love him? We then tap and revisit raw moments from MTV Sugar Mashariki and Jen Free, where fiction hits close to home. And later, Mushina sits down with Jazz, who shares what it really feels like to love someone who's been taught to hide. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_13 1:02

This is Mushina Malomba.

SPEAKER_08 1:05

Welcome to OK.

SPEAKER_13 1:11

This is another episode.

SPEAKER_08 1:12

Yes, where we just talk.

SPEAKER_13 1:14

Real talk.

SPEAKER_08 1:15

Beefly.

SPEAKER_13 1:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_08 1:16

Raw conversations.

SPEAKER_13 1:17

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_08 1:18

Papa, we had nothing if not real.

SPEAKER_13 1:20

The set of conversations we are having today are also quite eye-opening. I was talking with a guy who was telling me Aliqua and the lady used to provide for her. So the girl used to act a certain way.

SPEAKER_08 2:04

So I was confused. What do you mean? The boys again wanna tan was a me oh demakana kuprove. The metanquan is many we demiacke, and fine, I feel like less of a man. Yeah. And then my boys send over Nadia.

SPEAKER_13 2:19

Absolutely. This is another story, but we are here to talk about it. But also one of the conversations we had was about uh HIV, right? Which is a conversation I feel like it's very important to still have today. Yeah. And uh there's a lady who told me she dated a guy who was HIV positive. Lakini. The guy was not able to actually be emotional and tell her uh her status. And also whatever he was going through, angeza ku open up. Questions we want to know is why? You know, we wanna find out are there safe spaces for guys to actually open up? Wadu bona kunayo stigma ya HIV.

SPEAKER_08 2:53

And shame. Very many young people of our generation. Yeah. Wengiwa liza liwa na HIV, oko early 2000s and uh late 90s. Yeah. Like HIV very rampant. You would imagine that at this day and age, time kuko na ARVs, tem kuko na education. In this day and age of the internet, someone would be confident enough to say, Mrs. Kibu by the way, Mimiskujitaftea Eugonja, nili Zaliwa Nayao, and you know what? This disease is not a death sentence. You know, you would imagine that because Ukukwa E age group, because most gen Z are open-minded.

SPEAKER_13 3:33

Yeah, uh, if I can be personal, my mom was actually HIV positive.

SPEAKER_08 3:36

Yeah, I remember you told me that.

SPEAKER_13 3:37

And I've interacted with HIV, meaning I've lived with her when she told me she's positive, actually. Yeah, I was like, What? Because I was young and did not understand it.

SPEAKER_08 3:46

You told me she didn't even tell you scared.

SPEAKER_13 3:48

Yeah, because we went to the hospital. Yeah. And then the doctor, because I was like, Why? Yeah. So the doctor asked my mom, is the mom positive? And the mom said yes. And I remember from that moment, my mom just never looked like, oh, I am sick, I'm gonna lie. She was always such a positive-minded alkuana yungilea. So the fact that I think I have lived with someone who is HIV positive, Imefanya, my perception has really changed.

SPEAKER_08 4:12

It's not to you, it's not a deadly. And I agree with you because it really depends on the environment where you are. Because I to na jua, for a fact, you know that you can date someone who has HIV and you won't contract it. Why is there still stigma sahi at this day and age? We need to walk out of that shape.

SPEAKER_13 4:31

And I think it's the reason why you'll find now it is even more harder for men. If men are infected with HIV, it's harder for them to even come out and say, because already HIV is stigma. Yeah. And then they add on to eat, you're a man, you've been taught your whole life not to speak out, not to say anything is wrong. So even when you are actually sick and you don't want to seek out for medical attention, you're still juggling in your head. But wait, but I'm a man.

SPEAKER_08 4:55

But I'm a man. And also the other thing is some people get HIV because they were sexually abused. Yes, yes, yes. So that is shame on two levels for a man. Because as a man who shaambiwa, when you're sexually abused, you're not supposed to feel bad. Yeah. You're a man. You should always be open to sex, whether it was by force or consensual. But at the end of the day, like, this is a disease that is manageable.

SPEAKER_13 5:20

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_08 5:20

It's not the ideal situation to be sick, but there's no shame in it at this day and age.

SPEAKER_13 5:26

I want to know and ask the question how do you open up then as a man when you are sick to a society that tells you to man up?

SPEAKER_11 5:34

Okay, for me as a man, uh for me to open up about something that I'm not actually okay about, it depends with the relationship I have with that person or those people. Uh, first of all, I must feel safe because I can't open up if I'm not safe. You must be my safe place so that I can open up to you. But uh I don't open up to random people because I want to get the the help, the exact help that I want. Because I'm telling you I'm hurting in this way. Okay, you will take it and tell me sorry, what have I gained from that? So I must feel safe. I must know this person can actually help me. This is my safe place, and uh I will get help. So that's when I will open up.

SPEAKER_08 6:19

And one person said they would rather also go to their boys. Yeah. Yeah, and they said that their boy is someone who will see from their POV as opposed to the girlfriend. That's what he said.

SPEAKER_13 6:32

Let me say something with that. Because as a guy, I feel like especially guy friendships are very I find them weird. My best, like my boys, yeah, wanna kwanga to kill a temi vibe. Yeah. Like my boys, how many letters?

SPEAKER_08 6:49

And that is even when I was going, I was going to ask, like, can they be better friends? Like you boys, can you be better friends to each other? Absolutely. Because Una Josa Leo Mchana Nili Patana students cabla wenge kwa class had two boys. They didn't know nicabolisam. You guys, I love you. No, one of them was like sendio, the other one was like. Yeah. I love you. Nasitaway and be my friend, I love you.

SPEAKER_13 7:30

Somebody that I've known for so long. It happens like that, because even me, my friendships, I think I'm the one who's started being emotional with my guy friends. And uh most of them took out noong anything constructive. It was almost banter. Like sometimes I feel as guys we need to be open to each other and be like, hey, let's just create a space where we can actually talk to each other. And I started that. I started just talking to my friends about what I'm going through, and slowly they started opening up. Sometimes, especially at the end of the years or during their birthdays, I get to write a message and say, bro, like literally a long message. And be a brother, Manze, you and this is a friend who they know my family, I know their family. We are literally like brothers. Yeah. So I tell him, Manze, you're really important in my life. Bro, Manze, I love you. At first, they're like, Shina, what the hell, man? That's weird. Excuse me, to make you a nah, bro. I love you, Manze. I love you. I love you. Because it's making us feel like human beings.

SPEAKER_07 8:25

Yeah. Everyone's got a take. Let's see what the people have to say.

SPEAKER_08 8:32

Today I woke up curious and I wanted to ask the boys in just one question. Nikawliza, do they tell their male friends, I love you? Hey, hey! What do you think they said? And we listen.

SPEAKER_05 8:46

No, as a as a man, let me tell you, there is a difference between being a man and a gentleman. So, for a man, a man can tell her his girlfriend, her girlfriend that uh he loves her. But for a gentleman, but I love you. Ngumu, nimbaya sana, nimba. No, no, no, no, no. I can't tell a man. Why? A man gay. Mono any gay.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

That will never happen. Why will I do that? Yes, I will never do that.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Why?

SPEAKER_00 9:23

There is a way the society has put it that uh you cannot tell a man you love him, they'll put you in courts. I really love my dad, but I will never tell him that. It's because the society has made it that you cannot tell a fellow man you love him.

SPEAKER_08 9:38

Okay, can you tell your mom?

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Yeah, I will do that.

SPEAKER_08 9:41

But your dad never.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

But I love him.

SPEAKER_11 9:43

But I will never do that. To be honest, okay, you know, your boy is ako atunampen.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

I Kenya, I only lana, I only lana. You love down, you put a boy child, I love you. Ayeze can't.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

Yeah, to some extent you can. You can say though, yeah, you can.

SPEAKER_08 10:07

Uh uh, I'm asking you, do you tell your friends I love you?

SPEAKER_04 10:09

Yeah, once in a while.

SPEAKER_08 10:11

Once in a while. Why not so often?

SPEAKER_04 10:14

It depends on the situation. Kama I mean, in koa situation in the well and good. I love you, bro.

SPEAKER_08 10:22

Uh uh, just be honest with me. Nyambi twist your go.

SPEAKER_04 10:25

Like, okay, set in our go palakini, even the eco, like fate has it that way naturally. Ayu easy.

SPEAKER_08 10:35

What do you mean, hi weezi? Okay, unambama bishako my dem Unawapenda.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Eh, eh now pen, that I mean a pen. Oh yeah. Thank you. Welcome.

SPEAKER_08 10:43

But mbono weezy and beamabishako ma boy unawapenda.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

In your quatu. Generally, the setting, the African setting. Oh, oh, wambia. Nikanibu dang ni anywambi ebuda.

SPEAKER_08 10:54

Mina kupenda Unezambia mako npenda.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

Eh, nezam wambia.

SPEAKER_08 10:59

But babako mesema kwa no shaiambiwa. I love you na a male person, a teacher, a friend, a parent, an uncle.

SPEAKER_07 11:14

Sour. That's the vibe qua ground. Now, check this out. Here is a moment from Sugar Masheriki. Good night, babe. I love you.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Good night.

SPEAKER_07 11:59

So, let's get back into it. Heard anything on this episode that you want to talk about in a safe, private, and judgment-free space? Chat naosema Nami chatbot on WhatsApp, number ni 0758-919709. He, ni one-on-one, take a listen.

SPEAKER_13 12:30

One of the things I've realized is very many men don't know how to speak up.

SPEAKER_09 12:36

Okay, I was in a relationship with uh a guy. Yeah. Person X, you won't mention their name. Yeah. So person X uh was HIV positive but couldn't open up. So I don't know. Uh uh according to him, I wasn't providing that good environment for them to speak up, called like somebody confidential, being that we were in a relationship. So I felt like that was something you know in a relationship of people being intimate and all that stuff. So I thought maybe he could speak up and tell me. But he was finding it hard. He took so much time before he opened up about it. Yeah, so it really affected us because of that trust. I was like, why are we dating? Why can't you just tell me like this and this and this is happening? It's not like I have a microphone on whereby I'll just speak out and then everybody will know what is happening, okay? And it's not like when we started off when I knew whatever was happening that I was not going to be with him. Yeah. So you know the measures when you're dating somebody with HIV positive, you can go into prep for them.

SPEAKER_12 13:37

Yeah, maybe it's the stigma also, because I mean something like HIV, very many young people are there's still stigma in the communities where people feel like, oh, if they say they're HIV positive, maybe it's something in your anafe ni came up to judge them. Maybe that was the reason. So did you guys break up because of that? Or what led to that breakup? And did you try to find out bonahaku an easy lea? Bona kuiza ku communicate nawe.

SPEAKER_09 14:06

Okay, the problem with uh men not speaking out is like there is no let me say, like a safe space for men to to break that silence. You know, men are going through a lot. So for for them to find a place whereby they can just speak out freely and all that, that is a problem. But for me, us breaking was not that, it was just led by something else that escalated in between us, then we broke up. But I'm curious. Yes.

SPEAKER_13 14:36

I am dating you, for example. I come to you, Jasmine, yes, and I say, Oh, Jasmine in a mashida jamani mame kuame. You see that from Jessie reaction. Do you think the community wanaw ill a safe space? Because where you're dating this guy, right? How feel safe enough to come to you and you are dating. Yes. You don't date him too.

SPEAKER_09 15:01

Yeah, you should speak. But dependent like when we started, we didn't create that room for us to understand each other. That is why he came in as being afraid of expressing himself to me. Okay. Then ending up holding that thing to himself, which at the start of the relationship, I felt like I should know for us to have these measures as we are dating.

SPEAKER_13 15:29

Do you judge men for being emotional?

SPEAKER_09 15:33

No, I do not judge, but I can't say like a hundred percent. But you know, society me to like why just anything small, I'll come to you and tell you, Jasmine.

SPEAKER_13 15:54

Meata sometimes we have a very long day. Natanika took it because it's good to release.

SPEAKER_09 15:59

But what is different?

SPEAKER_13 16:00

Yeah, but that's the thing. If you're in my life and I've had such a long day, I'm being stressed, and I come to you and I say, Oh my god, Nataka took Tanika kilo too. You see, the judgment from you, it's now I'll feel judged and I'm not want to talk it out.

SPEAKER_09 16:16

But that is a problem. Like men stay silent because of shame. And with that, now they're surviving with it. You know, so as young people, we really need to look for ways to make it a place whereby we can just pick out and then not holding on to things that are a problem to us.

SPEAKER_13 16:36

I think it we should start at, you know, uh us not judging each other.

SPEAKER_09 16:41

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_13 16:42

Even just, you know, when we're talking about here the the reality of the stereotype that oh, men are not supposed to cry. Yeah. Even me just saying to you, if I come to you crying, there's this reaction on your face. You know, that's what I'm talking about. We just get to a point where we are like, it's fine for men to cry. It's okay for them to come to us. It's good actually. They come to you. But don't you not? It's good to come, they come to you.

SPEAKER_09 17:07

I can't liliam to mingle like illifika depending on. I'm like, or something. But this thing is a whole roller coaster, and uh, it has to start with us. What are you doing, you as a person, you as an individual, for you to go to another person. You know, as much as you have your problems now, you are coming to me. Me as jasmine, I need to be whole for me to be able to accommodate you. Okay, yes. So lazimianza na mimi, kuji kwakosatu kini kuzia, na jovin yen is a decompose. You never could match it. That's fine.

SPEAKER_13 17:50

Now, what do we do? We are together in this. I'm I'm I'm just curious to know about the ex we're talking about. Did you give him that safe space even after you guys have broken up, yeah? To just let him know. Because you you you're an aware person. Yes. You're very aware of all these things you're talking about. Did you give him that space kumwambia? Hey, I know you're not together, but please, whenever you need space to talk to as a friend, I don't know if you guys still talk.

SPEAKER_09 18:14

Kidogo.

SPEAKER_13 18:15

Kidogo. If you if you if if you need space to actually come and talk about whatever you're going through, did you offer him that at least?

SPEAKER_09 18:21

Yeah, I was a safe space. Because at some point he he was the whole time he was afraid of even maybe telling the friends that this and this is what is happening. But you know, now going out at some point's work. Now na joa being that to positive kunile time, you need you should be taking your meds. Absolutely. Yeah. So najo you kuji feature, kuji feature. There was no need for it. So I was a safe space for him whereby Kama alkoana feel like maybe at some at some point konakitunimfa nikyoko inje he can come back to me. Then nauna venu to na say na na ye.

SPEAKER_12 18:59

Do you feel there are avenues where boys can express them them the themselves openly?

SPEAKER_09 19:05

In Siaya, we have youth wellness centers, but men are not making good use of it because I think that that silence is a major problem. But being that we are implementing uh the surround sound with surround sound, the journey to wholeness. I always advise people around me that they can use the semanami chatboard. Because if you cannot go and approach someone like nipuze kwa ko ni kwambi, e mushina ina ina fanyika. Noana na nini ni nezafanya. So kunoli mtu manyana fe life sta ki kuambia mutu. See, then make good use of the chatboard. Yeah. Yeah, because it is just confidential between we na yeah. I love food. The good thing with it, if it is something iniko extreme, inakopea, referral. I love that. According to your location, place, uko.

SPEAKER_07 19:55

This is the off-script podcast. Hiya, back to the convo.

SPEAKER_08 20:01

The thing with men is I can bet in a group of five men, they are most likely going through the same thing. But akunam to katiya five anatanoksema kitu. Now just the same as your friendship group. The moment the one will open up and say, but they will skizeni mimi, mimi to to schedule to Saturdays and Sabatu Shikana Patuje to lead you, mimi now. Exactly. It's heavy, it's heavy.

SPEAKER_13 20:32

Even just simple things like uh I buy myself flowers. You do. I buy myself flowers on a Sunday evening. I sit back and I have my coffee. I watch the sunset and pick a road and even so let's get on a check. If there's a question I need to ask, especially to the boys, is what will it take you guys to actually open up to each other?

SPEAKER_06 21:35

I think in today's generation, many of us we have dark pasts. Yeah, with my story, I can say like my secondary school. I went to three schools. In all those four schools, I've never shared my problems with anybody until last year. So many people are living with many things right now. We have the stepdad issues. Some people have never seen their dad, and you hear that the nigga is just out there and you have never seen him. Some have Family problems with those ta kind of people, they are always very frank. But you know, you can't you can't be opening up to happy people. You can have some friends here who nainda like hey bana bro, me, bana ni makea many years, bana s di mama gutu tuana tuleanga, and that person yakuna buddha, anafanyakazi, yakuna mokora, anafanyakazi. So task, like hey, bana is only a maisha. Mina is it a man in jipateapu.

SPEAKER_08 22:22

So like this idea.

SPEAKER_06 22:24

That's why right now, very many people are are hurting. Domano no like Sai. We are we always give our attention to this guy. Do we not say this am?

SPEAKER_08 22:34

If if it was possible to have a safe space where men can just open up, even if it's just one person, is that what you would want? Like a safe space where you can just go and open up.

SPEAKER_06 22:46

Yeah, yeah. So with me, I I don't like Yokituneto group. Yeah, so I have this one children. Then I attain kitembea apa mtuanibo. He's the first person. Ntampigiya na tawambia banaroi, bananivina Ivan. The guy is always there. Ata kwambia, like nim to atakuambia. What you need to hear. Okay. Yeah, wanasemanga. If somebody shares his or her problem, kwako, wwambia tu, it's gonna be alright. Yeah, kunawatu wana worsen situation. I don't say, hey, ataningasa tu kumwambia.

SPEAKER_13 23:11

I think one of the things that he has said that uh has really caught my attention. He has gone through so much and he's not able to talk it out to someone. It's things that actually so many guys are going through, right? And that's why I feel it is important for guys to have that sort of emotional strength to talk about their issues so that they cannot be runaway dads. We're not gonna have it too simple. Kama could change tire. I learned could change tire Gary when I was 28 years. Nobody taught me how to change tire. Yeah. Nobody taught me how to shave my beard. Nobody taught me all these things like to be a man, right? So if you don't have a group of guy friends who you're able to learn from each other, you're literally cooked.

SPEAKER_10 23:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 23:50

Right? So it's important to have a group or one friend who you can be able to.

SPEAKER_08 23:54

Yeah, and I'm glad that he said he has one person that he can talk to because I feel like that is better than not having anyone at all. Yeah. And just to know that whatever it is that you're going through, most probably, as much as Tuna Zakosa kupita, the same Zakukosa Baba, Cindy, but to neapity, many things that are very similar. What I can encourage us as young people is to try and be as authentic as we can be.

SPEAKER_12 24:24

That's it.

SPEAKER_08 24:25

Nasi must have the same things in Dotwonge. Cindy, we can go through different things, but create a safe space for anyone that is going through anything to talk.

SPEAKER_13 24:35

Thank you so much. It has been an absolutely amazing time. Will we be safe spaces? Will we be safe spaces? Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_12 24:43

Thank you so much. This is Offscript.

SPEAKER_07 24:46

See you on the next one. Coming up next on Offscript.

SPEAKER_13 24:52

Nanisi mind. I don't mind Kukua. She dani kitambi mushina uu na kitambiya.

SPEAKER_08 24:59

Nico nawa tuana ulizangwa. How much do you have in your account? Mushana wing up. Nikaskia Amesama 83,000 pounds.

SPEAKER_09 25:09

Harassment, we've never known it's a crime. I personally didn't know it was a crime because it was so normalized.

SPEAKER_07 25:23

Off script is brought to you by Sugar Global. Heard anything on this episode that you want to talk about in a safe, private, and judgment-free space? Chat Naosema Nami chatbot on WhatsApp number knee 0758-919709.