Rules za Nani?

What happens when you stop living by society’s rules? This episode challenges traditional ideas of masculinity, relationships, and timelines inviting young people to redefine love, identity, and success on their own terms.

Transcript

SPEAKER_10 0:02

This episode contains sensitive content that may be triggering for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised.

SPEAKER_07 0:27

Previously, on off script, what on a simunbility once you'll never have a perfect body according to society.

SPEAKER_11 0:41

Let's avoid two sendment.

SPEAKER_10 0:48

Coming up on this episode, McKenna brings it back to basics on the campus at Juiced University. What actually makes a real man and what makes a real woman? We then tap and revisit raw moments from MTV Sugar Mashariki and Gen Free, where fiction hits close to home. And later, Mushina sits down with George, who learned the hard way that asking for help can cost you and why he'd do it again anyway. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_07 1:23

This is Mushina Malomba.

SPEAKER_11 1:25

And Makenakahuha.

SPEAKER_07 1:26

Welcome to Off the Script. We are excited to be here to Kosiaya.

SPEAKER_11 1:30

Jaya Mogi Oginga Odinga University of Science and Technology Na to Kopeke to Hapa. We are the good students of this school. Na leo, let me tell you, Kabnatufike Haba, we entertain.

SPEAKER_07 1:47

Well I also had a sit down, especially with the guys. Now the impression guys have, I was like, where Quili, this is so different. Because, like there's someone who was dating a lady, but who dem in alkuana sort of provide. Okay. Lakini sasa, udemana mwana ni kama e uchaliako chini, because I'm the provider. Okay. Right? And that was quite interesting to see the sort of the gender norms that are there. It was quite interesting. I'm excited to be here, kwa kwili. One of the things uh I got from this conversation was how masculinity is being perceived. Like kuki kwam soft pi kama wwanaume.

SPEAKER_11 2:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:23

Aye we're weak. Pia you easy. Like onakwaye soft mwanaume atunali wanaliya nani we.

SPEAKER_11 2:28

And you know, the mime konzaki tu emenishtuane, was chana wanataka kuti to wavizure.

SPEAKER_07 2:34

Eh.

SPEAKER_11 2:35

But be ataki mw.

SPEAKER_07 2:36

Wana wom softunalia. Una mashida kama wanome.

SPEAKER_11 2:41

And atakama mwye akos sensitive to by needs. Butaki wanome sensitive.

SPEAKER_07 2:46

I don't know where this notion came about. Kwaba mwanome akilia, or if a man is sensitive or is uh vulnerable, in akwa like uh in a passive view akama, this man is weak. I don't understand where that comes from.

SPEAKER_11 3:01

One of the boldest people.

SPEAKER_07 3:02

Kabisa, Kabisa, I'm very open.

SPEAKER_11 3:04

So why do you think we're your confidence?

SPEAKER_07 3:07

I think first of all, I think I was raised by by women. And how I saw my mothers and my aunts who raised me, sort of uh uh Walkwana Chukulia life, yeah. Walkwana nabia mshina if there's anything wrong, come to us. Mimi li kwwa chochote inafanyika home. I'm never the kind of person to keep things to myself. Uh, I took it out. So when I came out to the society when I was in the university, and then Una Pata, most guys, they're going through so much. Like you know, I'm like, that's crazy. But now I started making my other friends kwanza kuongea because I was like, imagine I found out my friend, he's an orphan just the other day. I'm like, oh, check out fine.

SPEAKER_11 3:43

No, finding no. Like, anyway, did you not know?

SPEAKER_07 3:48

I that's the thing. Uh, we have just never got it to that point where we are talking about a tip a family like that. But kunatemza, hey, by the way. This is somebody I've known for two years. What? I'm like, why would you not share with your friend? And I joke around about it every single day. And I think he said, I think I am more comfortable with uh always saying, Oh, I'm an orphan. It's because I talk about it.

SPEAKER_11 4:12

And you're okay with it.

SPEAKER_07 4:12

Oh, absolutely. I think it's very important for guys to always uh come out and just pick out whatever they're going through.

SPEAKER_10 4:21

Everyone's got a take. Let's see what the people have to say.

SPEAKER_11 4:25

My guys, niko happa ground, na nikona nani.

SPEAKER_06 4:28

Kalchautero.

SPEAKER_11 4:29

Eh, nikona culchaote. I have a question for you. What makes a man a real man? Very nice. Thank you so much, culture. In your opinion, what makes a woman a real woman?

SPEAKER_13 4:58

I think a real woman is one who is works very hard towards what she wants to achieve and prioritizes very important things over other things that are not so important. Okay, girl boss, I see you.

SPEAKER_11 5:11

So a real woman.

SPEAKER_09 5:17

A real woman. I mean it's a same key money real woman. And uh ukana yo confidence carriage, akuna kitina kukopecha. Una mkana you you go out there, no nau create your own attention, ukinga ma hollywood on kuchambua na jo nini nani. Ah, that's what I like to hear.

SPEAKER_11 5:45

In your own opinion. Nini nafayangamanaume, and I kwa a real man. Copinionako, Ninini nafajanga dem and a kwa a real woman.

SPEAKER_14 6:06

Kama Demakona Pesayake Unakua says I wanaume wanakwa go, and unakwana pesatam to a zika kuchesia pesa ako be naf. Okay.

SPEAKER_11 6:18

Me asakam nyambi. In your own opinion, Ninini nafajanga manaume, and a kwa a real man.

SPEAKER_17 6:25

Okay, in my own opinion, meaning a seman doma kwa nawume. Azima wanzu na luku na ganji.

SPEAKER_11 6:32

Luku na ganji. Apome pushaume.

SPEAKER_17 6:37

Luku ali. Kunavanapian kiko caribanya gwana your confidence.

SPEAKER_11 6:50

Okay. Let's move him safie. Ah, we love clean men here.

SPEAKER_17 6:57

Napesa muimu.

SPEAKER_11 6:58

Napesa muhi. What too?

SPEAKER_10 7:00

Okay, what too Sawa, that's the vibe qua ground. Now check this out. Here's a moment from Sugar Masha Riki.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

So I don't think it is. Okay. Unless Unless you don't spell a care.

SPEAKER_04 7:51

So like a bike.

SPEAKER_03 7:58

Bro.

SPEAKER_10 8:07

So let's get back into it. Heard anything on this episode that you want to talk about in a safe, private, and judgment-free space? Chat na our Sema Nami chatbot on WhatsApp number ni 0758-919709. He ni one-on-one. Take a listen.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

There was this time uh that I was feeling like uh I didn't have enough money to, you know, support the relationship. Okay. And uh my girlfriend could sometimes chip in and support me, purchase these things, and then there was that time that she also she could also support me paying my school fee. At this moment, uh during this time, uh I I didn't have anything to do. Like I'm just a volunteer by that time. So, you know, uh she was feeling like she now owns me. She's more like over me because she's like paying everything for me. And it was just because I didn't have that good paying job and you know, like maybe something to sustain us in the relationship. So she was like, uh, whenever I want something, I can she's free that I can't ask it from her. But whenever she gives me that money, she's like, You do know that I only am the person who says anything in this house right now. And for me, it was not too well with me because I was feeling like uh it should be that way. So when I tried to bring this uh conversation, she was like, You can't even I should be the one sharing the that kind of conversation because I'm the one who has that money to you know do everything in this relationship. So I was like, I can't, I was trying to, you know, get friends to to talk uh true about this story, and my friends were also like, We're gonna go. You can't be like in that kind of relationship. Jitoge Kamo Nanani, Ningum. And I was like, but we are in love, and you know, I can't just quit the relationship because ananani kama nikalia is something you can talk about. But then I tried to call this girl who are involved with the committee, and she was like, She can't be there because I wanted to connect to another mwampia.

SPEAKER_07 10:14

When that disrespect was happening, how did it make you feel?

SPEAKER_02 10:18

I was feeling so low. Uh, when I want to say something, she'll be like, she's more like over me, and I can't say anything. So I was kind of feeling low, I can't speak up. And when I try to talk to my friends, she will be like, Niki pata me wambia. Kitu kitu kitu na ziwa ni, by the time, yeah, wasi on uh is a red flag, zina kongatu like z meji feature ako butu na jaribuku kuwana, but na yonanga in a different aspect. At that point, prashaina kujaga automatically, because you na feel like I have to do disrespect is kuje, kazimanikwenakito. Na yukitu lazi manipati through kujutuma. So inakujanga too automatically lazimata jituma.

SPEAKER_07 10:51

Wake up and how do you express your emotion to your fellow friends? Wanatmyanga best, happy birthday, bro. Mansey, na kuta kia fiti. I love you, bro.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

For me, I'll I'll I'll definitely post someone, but nikim post. Hbd. Yeah, you H B D.

SPEAKER_07 11:08

Emotion. Happy birthday, Nikitya kunima mwenzako.

unknown 11:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

So to keg, but nakawana zile caption yang in a show. Like, yeah, I'm into this, but so the real caption yeah, happy birthday too too many more years.

SPEAKER_07 11:23

My friends are kind of like keks and candles, bro. Keks and candles. I'm like, when you wish to happy birthday on to me a person, I love you, machina. Have you ever actually I'm curious, have you ever told your friend, hey Maze bro, I love you? George, I love you, man.

SPEAKER_10 11:43

This is the off-script podcast.

SPEAKER_11 11:46

Hiya, back to the convo. Actually, me na taka kulisa swiri. Yes. Have you ever gone to your girlfriend for comfort?

SPEAKER_22 11:54

Many times.

SPEAKER_11 11:54

Does your girlfriend never seen you cry?

SPEAKER_22 11:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_11 11:56

Oh, really? Wait, guys, you are pigu.

SPEAKER_07 12:03

Kunamayame same as Z. Watch up with a microphone, why?

SPEAKER_11 12:10

Makufi.

SPEAKER_08 12:11

No, see at easy for the Makofi. But you know, um, even as much as Unaita um say manziako, to some exakuata kwa zileza manze when he boy naunalia.

SPEAKER_11 12:24

Like girls, do you agree?

SPEAKER_07 12:26

Do you think it's important for men to come if you're dating a guy to be emotional to you?

SPEAKER_23 12:30

Yes, I believe uh emotional feelings should be equal for both genders. The societal belief that is implanted in us is the one that is making us. I think my brother is feeling the society impact that a man should not cry. We should not be the reason. Nowadays, we are dealing with a lot of mental illnesses that are arising from these situations that we put ourselves. The society has implanted pressure on our young men that you should not cry, you should not relieve yourself or talk to someone when you're at facing challenges. I think that point, that's a system, and we should change it.

SPEAKER_07 13:07

I'm glad you see that because my question is where does that come from? Where does it come from? Like where we may say my no, right? Where does it come from? Did your dad tell you not to cry growing up? I'm in a toka wapi, you could if you're not a simini wana women say zilia.

SPEAKER_08 13:22

Uh, in terms of reputation, I love the way the society takes men is is kind of crazy. Yeah, kitukay. So that's why I prefer not to cry. I better cry in front of a man. But not a woman. Exactly. Because you'll you'll be perceived as a weak man. For the woman, she will do something like that. But nikambia moryoango that manse ni ko IV Vina ivi because of this, this, and this. The guy to neza reason from uh same POV. Yeah, no. But a lady, maybe as Yona Niniango, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 13:56

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_11 13:57

Yeah, which guy agrees with him? Amananiana differ.

SPEAKER_09 14:00

Okay, Mimi Naona, a man to cry Belea Demiake, it's just okay.

SPEAKER_08 14:06

How should I even cry? And expect the masculinity part from me. But if I cry a morioang, I understand because we can view things from the same POV, but it's different from the other gender, especially Sadem. Let's not say gender, but Demianguan.

SPEAKER_07 14:21

Do you not get tired of pretending? Because that is pretense. Every human being is emotional. If you lose your parent right now, are you not going to be emotional? You're gonna cry, right? Meaning, if you are dating a lady who you're close to, you'd want to cry to her, right? No.

SPEAKER_08 14:39

The reason why it says Iliam Beleake, even as much as the men you mum's young past, niki wana kitukayo kwa kiliango that it's gonna happen, then there's no point of me going to cry in front of my girlfriend.

SPEAKER_05 14:50

Uh, personally, other than maybe crying to your girlfriend or whatever, you know, we have been raised in a society where maybe that crying was not an option for men.

SPEAKER_07 15:01

I want to hear from a lady because from the ladies we have heard from, akuna we have sema sitaki manomia kuje kwangu, anilie.

SPEAKER_15 15:08

Okay, the reason why I'd say men should embrace crying is that they should learn that it is okay to cry, it is okay to let your emotions out. I feel like you should just let yourself be in a position that you're able to express your emotions to others. So let me have a question.

SPEAKER_11 15:29

Um, do you boys feel like mademwenu wamewapatiya space and ye munezaenda mualilie? Nanyini, madame, do you feel like you have created a space and yeah?

SPEAKER_15 15:40

A guy can come and cry to you, but for that matter, I say for my man, if I had one, I'd let out a space for him to cry. Because this is where we build more and more relationships with each other. You find that intimate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_14 15:58

I think girls who are wanna pair boys that chance to open up. Like in for boys, when you someone has said, come on to a mirazi waivo, hajawa ilia, it's like they won't do it. But for some men, some men cry.

SPEAKER_11 16:10

Boys, do you feel like create your space? Ama they are part of the people when you wanna fanya dim feel nigama we zilia.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Personally, na feel was chana create your space.

SPEAKER_11 16:29

Okay, but kulia umezemazi.

SPEAKER_18 16:31

So with me, I think I can never do such a thing. I think e life I'll never, I'll never even explain myself to a girl. Because nowadays, mtuwata yuko busy, but they are acting damn busy. Yeah, sasa with mimi, konza ata numba mungu to apetu mukoro life bad. But sasa was chana, akunak to nachwoga serias.

SPEAKER_07 16:51

So from this conversation, it feels like as a man, wame composition flanny, they have put themselves, they have given themselves a role. And then they have also put the lady at a certain role.

SPEAKER_11 17:02

Pia, kunamile society imesema, manomemwenya kwangi rafa mamoye, aez shout, si mano no meno li potatuka baby boy kazuri relationships ukelis in ezaka a ji. If boys were just how they wanted to be and girls were who they wanted to be.

SPEAKER_07 17:19

I think it's it's it's very important to sort of have those conversations beforehand. Because you'll notice, yeah, okay, we are kiliaki equam nahi. Yeah. And me will not want to date someone when yeah and a fiqiriya, like, oh, as a man you should. As a man you should. Where you are a real man, you should. No, we are human beings at the end of it all. So Nataku, you are in a relationship. If let's say akunge kuana is it gender roles, easy gender uh norms. How would a relationship look like? Are you okay with a man with you providing if your man is not like that's another job? Are you okay with paying the rent?

SPEAKER_11 17:52

Okay, I can't, but you can't be jobless forever. If it's a seasonal thing, you know these things happen. Syndrome, don't you losing a job. As long as you're still looking for a job. I can't be a stay-at-home dad. Forever. I I actually I wouldn't want that because even I wouldn't be a stay-at-home. I would prefer a two-income home.

SPEAKER_07 18:12

Okay. As a lady, are you okay providing for your man? And as a man, are you okay being provided for? Yeah, and the gender roles in a kuatakama mapishi. As a lady, are you are you just subscribed to that idea that me when I'm key I need to cook? Well, make up and a suit your many.

SPEAKER_21 18:29

Okay, for me, I'll I am open to help her cook.

SPEAKER_11 18:32

Help her.

SPEAKER_21 18:34

According to the gender norms, the lady is supposed to cook.

SPEAKER_11 18:36

So you support, so you support the gender norm.

SPEAKER_21 18:39

I don't support it, but uh you kitiko iko iko kwaki is it to what's all dog. A lady should cook, a lady should wash utensils, clean. How would your relationship look?

SPEAKER_11 18:53

How would your relationship look?

SPEAKER_21 18:54

Uh in that case, I think uh jobs in uh splitted. Yeah, according to me, if if those gender norms weren't in our minds, uh thinking.

SPEAKER_11 19:04

Well, Mesema, you fully support that. Cause you could pick an yams channel. Do you love cooking?

SPEAKER_20 19:08

Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_11 19:09

Do you cook for yourself?

SPEAKER_20 19:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_11 19:10

But when you get a government or a wife, Una muchach your responsibility.

SPEAKER_20 19:16

I'll do it out of will.

SPEAKER_11 19:18

When it comes to finances, whose responsibility is it in your head to provide?

SPEAKER_20 19:23

According to me, I don't believe in 50-50.

SPEAKER_11 19:25

You believe that a man should be the one to provide 100%?

SPEAKER_20 19:29

Yes, and unless I just have some financial issues, but it's something that I need to work on.

SPEAKER_11 19:34

But you see, financial issues are part of life. Sindio, you cannot be financially stable every day of your life. Even very rich people sometimes they suffer these problems. So now, when you lose your ability to provide, will it make you less of a man?

SPEAKER_20 19:50

According to me, Bana, when a woman is providing, you will never have that peace. You know, even in the Bible, the last time women fed us, we are just born.

SPEAKER_07 19:59

Something else that is interesting is the timelines. A man should marry by this age. Kwanzaa, as a lady on a sevenga, eh, ma ke no sifiki twenty-five, uki fika twenty-five, that's the right age for the children. And then excuse you, you hear things like, you know, I want to be child free. Parents on a skizanga child free. Uh, taki wa toto.

SPEAKER_11 20:27

TikTok, exactly.

SPEAKER_07 20:30

It is quite interesting because it's always that, I think, notion that at a certain age. You need to have done this, you need to marry, you need to do this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 20:39

Yeah, and then the other thing that they usually say is like, you know, when you get a wife or when you get a child, you're going to become responsible. So see it, co responsible kwanza, a lafu opate. Familiar. It's guilty, it will make you responsible, which I think is a very unhealthy way to look at it. Because if I was not ready before, what is going to make me ready? You know, like a family sick to nogo.

SPEAKER_07 21:03

So I feel like this sort of pressure that we have from parents, especially in the society, that a woman or a man should get married or settle down by certain age, it just needs to stop. How does a relationship look like for you if there was no pressure timeline? Yeah. And is there pressure from your parents or your guardians about either settling down? Hey, Malisa Shuluki, Malisa Shuluzkaftamu.

SPEAKER_19 21:27

Do you guys feel that pressure? For me, nimepata pressure from my parents like baby and stuff. I have this like mini firstborn. So nimepata le pressure when you are kunyuma. Sa kunya put to angunish. I can't for now. So akama kungi kwana pressure maybe ningekwanga and me think other ways. But so you pressure at the same time we ataka kwenda gain is.

SPEAKER_11 21:57

So also there's that thing uh you see. Siblings, yeah, you have to take care of them. So now Vikiria, how am I going to have a family of my own? No Nataka Pia, I take care of this.

SPEAKER_22 22:08

Okay, I come from a family of very successful siblings. So there's that pressure of success in me. It is not a request I'm supposed to be successful in life. So I have that pressure. If what if I don't make it, where will I go? And what if I don't if I make it, yes. What do I do after I make it? So to answer that other question here about children. For us as Gen Z, we do not want to have children if we are not financially stable. Because what we have been seeing on the internet, we want to give our children the life that we see on the internet, the happy life, vacation. Uh Daddy, you want this? I go by. Daddy, you want this? Not that you start telling a kid who was synapse size or stuff. I don't want that. And if I'm not successful, I do not want kids. I rather stay that way. Because I don't want them to suffer.

SPEAKER_07 22:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 23:02

My thought is as the youth, we have a long way to go in mapping our own direction that we want to take. Because Ababu, you know, most of the decisions the youth are making are informed by advice or expectations from parents. The pressure. From the society. From the siblings. Like you're saying, you have successful siblings and all these things and expectations, and uh even your peers have expectations of from you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 23:30

It's just good that we're able to actually have this conversation to define and redefine what a relationship uh looks like right now. Also, the gender norms. How does it look like when uh that gender norm is not there? It has been an absolutely good conversation.

SPEAKER_11 23:45

That was fun.

SPEAKER_07 23:46

It was good to be with you here.

SPEAKER_11 23:47

Yes, I really had a good conversation with you guys, and I hope to unlearn is all mentalities and you to corner so anything.

SPEAKER_10 23:57

We had a good time, Cinder. Coming up next on Offscript.

SPEAKER_07 24:03

Why would parents force kids to do a course they don't want? Are we going to bridge this gap of young people and the parents? So that kusikwe nambutano sana!

SPEAKER_10 24:29

Off script is brought to you by Sugar Global. Heard anything on this episode that you want to talk about in a safe, private, and judgment free space? Chat naosema Nami chatbot on WhatsApp. Number Ni 0758 919709.