EPISODE 5 - ACNE PART 2

In this episode, we continue our acne series by breaking down what acne actually is and the different types you may be dealing with. We walk through hormonal, genetic, inflammatory, and fungal acne, and explain how to identify each one, what they look like on the skin, and why understanding the root cause is key to treating it correctly.

This episode is for anyone struggling with acne, estheticians looking to deepen their knowledge, and those ready to take a more informed and proactive approach to their skin.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

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SPEAKER_00 0:51

Seriously. Okay, we are back. Hey guys, those enthusiasts. I'm stealing Gabby's line. I love that. We talked about acne in our little like personal journey. So that way people can understand we get it, we get you.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Let's talk a little bit about what acne is and the different kinds of acne. And hopefully something will click with you if you have acne and you'll recognize maybe a little bit more of what type you have and just learn how acne happens.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah, we want to kind of just deep dive a little bit into because we love information. We love going overboard. We love going on tangents. And so we really wanted to break down what acne is because it's simple, but it's not. Like I said, he's a bitch and he is fickle, and there's many different ways to solve a problem. And I think we need to discuss like, well, what is that problem? Why is it happening? Because a lot of times we just feel like why me? Like that's victim-ish, kind of like, fuck, like I'm doing everything right. Why do I keep on breaking out? So let's go into like what is acne? Okay, like what are the different types of acne that we all hear, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:03

I hate when people say hormonal acne.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Yeah, oh my god, too.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Throws a chill at my spine. Like it's just I hate that term. It is not a thing in my mind. And once you understand how acne is created, then you'll probably agree. So I feel like it's a very lazy way to describe acne. Oh, it's hormonal. It's like, okay, well, we have hormones, so what the fuck? Why do everyone has hormones? Why doesn't everybody have acne then? Acne is a follicular issue. So it has to do with the rate of shedding in the follicle and the rate of shedding exterior of the follicle and oil and bacteria.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

And the sebum production control, which is affected by our hormones.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Yes. So you can be oily and not have acne.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

100%.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

And you can have imbalanced hormones and not have acne. But the thing is when it comes together with the follicular issue and the overproduction of oil, that's where we get issues. But people who are not oily also get acne. So many dry acne. So many dry acne people. I think more often than not, they're dry acne people and they think they are oily because their skin's so unhappy and imbalanced. But basically, most acne sufferers are overshedding inside the follicle and under-shedding on the surface. And that's why the whole goal is to properly balance the rate of exfoliation on the skin.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

With hydration.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Yes, mostly with hydration. Exfoliation is part of it, but I always like to focus on hydration and then balance with exfoliation. I always tell people hydration and exfoliation go hand in hand. Yeah. If you are dry, your skin is not able to slough and turn over properly. So then you are not exfoliating naturally the way you should. And so you're getting clogged.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

That skin is getting stuck on top of each other and it's just getting matted down. But so going back really quickly, so just to discuss like the different types of acne, we have I'm putting air quotes hormonal, which we're gonna continue on. The genetic acne, which I am a proud carrier of that one.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

And I think I'm a a little mix of inflammatory, like reactive acne with genetic.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Then there's also fungal, which is like its own little subset.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Which I wouldn't even call acne, but yes, fungal. I mean because it gets misinterpreted so often.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Totally. But so going back to the hormonal though, so we both still both agree that like no, that's not a thing. It it is, but it isn't.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Especially for women, hormones go up and down all month long. And so, yes, the week before your period, your testosterone goes up a little and the testosteronease causes more oil production. And if you are having follicular issues because of genetics or because of lack of shedding, then you're gonna get clogs and that excess oil gets more clogged, so you get more breakouts during that time. So, yes, that makes sense. Totally. But if you balance your hydration, your exfoliation, that won't happen. Yes. So that's the goal.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

100%. And exactly. So if you're like exfoliating properly, you're not allowing that dead skin to get stuck into the pore, and then your hormones are surging, you have like a luteal phase, you have all the things that are going on based off your menstrual cycle. And if you're exfoliating properly, you're not gonna allow something to clog the pore and create a pimple. Granted, that doesn't happen all the time. It can't be perfect all the time, but that's how we can prevent it though. And that is again going back to the importance of seeing a professional and being put on the right products. And honestly, sometimes we use different products on different times of the month. Like when you know you're about to get your period or a week before, like I have some people using different exfoliation. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

I completely have them amp up things or do a little more masking at home the week before or use a benzy a little more often the week before because benzyl peroxide, one of the ingredients we use often with more cystic inflammatory acne. It's a great tool. You don't need to be on it forever all the time once you're controlled, but it is great to have because it works specifically on that androgen situation where you're getting that testosterone increase. Yeah. It helps you reduce that inflammatory reaction and oxygenate the pore to prevent that clogging with the excess oil.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Like I had a client who I believe she was in her mid-50s. So she was on HRT. And so she was on testosterone. Partially it was also for like her to combat osteoporosis as well, to help with building bone too. But she she had oily skin to begin with. So she as a 50-year-old woman, she had awesome. She must have looked great. She had she looked great, but she was fair. She was white. So she so she did have some wrinkles, though. That's the interesting part. But she is like the Welsh white person, but was oily, it was super interesting. But then when she went on the HRT and they upped her testosterone, she was getting these large, large postules, like red inflammatory pimples with a huge white head on it. So then we discussed it. And so they tried to decrease her testosterone. And when they decreased it, the amount of breakouts she was getting and also like how inflammatory they were also decreased as well. So that does show you that your hormones do affect the inflammatory process as well. But it was just a really interesting kind of like case study for me to see, like, oh, this person is literally taking hormones and this is how it's affecting their skin.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Oh, yeah. When I've had clients taking hormones, it definitely made the acne a little bit more difficult to control.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Yes. And then going into genetics, so I think I want to do a subsection also of like I believe that if you touch your face and you are acne prone, you are going to get a breakout. And there's some people who like I am a messy eater. Like I just for some, I'm not okay. This is like totally embarrassing, but I this is gonna be so embarrassing when I say this. I have a sweatshirt that I wear at nighttime when we're watching TV that's my like eating sweatshirt. So that way when I spill on myself, it's like a sweatshirt, I don't give up for it. Shut the fuck up. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Okay. Does anybody have that? Or is that just me? This is a first for me. I love this about you. Natalie has her processes for everything, let me just say.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

So I have my dinner sweatshirt.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Okay, wow. Your husband loves that.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Oh my god. Love them so hot. Uh so besides just my sweatshirt, my clothes getting dirty, my face also gets dirty because I have fun taking big bites. Like my bite is constructed. Like on my fork, I have my salad, which has my lettuce, a little bit of an onion, and then I'm a weird eater too, but different. But like, oh, really? Oh, we'll have to talk about it. My bite is purposeful.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Like I'm saying, I need the whole plate. Everything needs to be in there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Oh my god. We're sick.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Uh so I don't like things to they can touch, but I don't really want those things to touch. Yeah. And I have to eat, like, I'll either eat in sections or I will something like that, where I'm like, I want a little of everything in one bite, but that's why I keep them separate, so I can like dose it. So I have enough for every bite of the meal till the end. That's so funny. That's kind of fun. Peter loves watching me eat. It's so funny. He's like, I fall in love with you watching you eat because it's just so cute. And I'm like, shut up, please don't watch me. Like, but oh my God, I didn't know this about you, Natalie. We are way more alike than I thought.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

But different.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

That's so funny. So different, but so weird. Our brains are messed up.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

That's so funny. Um, so besides my messy sweatshirt, um, and when I eat salad, for example, like like I love arugal, I love lettuce, but like it's hard to get it into your mouth without it like kind of touching your face. I always would break out around my mouth because I feel like it's the dressing that touched my like upper lip or my chin, whatever. Like, imagine like eating spaghetti and you like slurp it up and then like that little hit to your chin, you're breaking out.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

I'm gonna get a breakout.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

I know my acne also when I was on that second, going on the second round of Accutane, my acne was so bad on my cheeks. And it was because, like, think about it, your cell phone, you you're touching your iPhone, you have your fingers on it, your hands are filthy, you're constantly like unlocking, locking, da-da-da, texting. And so now you have all this bacteria on your phone. And then I was putting that phone directly onto my face, and that was what my breakouts were. So, like, there's cause and correlation a lot of time, but because I have that genetic component, I'm more susceptible to getting the breakout. And most my parents didn't have acne, but I know that my uncles did, though. If you have acne doesn't mean your kids are gonna have acne, but there is definitely a genetic component to it.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Yeah, I definitely find that pressure in certain areas or things that we're touching a lot, it does just happen because that's as something secreting if you're pressing there. That's why the side you're sleeping on. It's not necessarily that always your pillowcase is dirty. It could also just be that maybe the product you're using at night or you're not cleansing at night, and then you're sleeping on your face and the pressure while you're secreting is causing a cog to occur.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Well, like what I say with all everybody who's in a class, like any student, high school, college, whatever, like I know when you're in class, your head is so heavy, it's so hard to keep it up. And like you want to just put your hand on your chin, whatever, to like rest it. That's why you're breaking out on your neck and your chin because you're putting your hand there and you're resting and touching your face, and you maybe you used hand lotion, you've just touched a doorknob, all these things, you picked your nose. I don't know. So, like, don't touch your face. That is one of the most important stuff. And I mean, like I catch Gabby all the time. I'm like, stop touching your face.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

I'm attaching her. I can't help it. I are. I just can't help it. But I have a client, this case study that I was just working on, and she had she was having such inflamed acne and it was so torturous. And she'd been working with other estheticians, and so I was like, look, we're gonna break this down, we're going through your whole life and we're gonna figure this out. And I realized as we started clearing her overall, because acne can build up. So it takes a minute to get through what you have and clean it up to see what new breakouts are coming and where. Because I feel like over time, a lot of the clients I get there have acne all over their face. Yeah, what's on the surface at that moment is not all you have. And a lot of the times I see people and I'm like, I don't think you have active acne, I think you have old acne. And so once you clean it out, it was just an episode that they had that was lingering because nobody properly treated it and cleaned it out for them and helped them heal. So it was just like lingering old acne instead of like active new breakouts. So we cleaned all of her out, and then we would see the new breakouts and mostly on one side. Oh, and I was like, Oh, what are you doing? And I'm like, where do you sleep? Who do you hang out with? What is happening? For when we have like a epiphany, like an epiphany or do you mean noises? We do. It was like a moment I was like, What is this? And she was so good. I was seeing her once a week or once every other week and doing just mini treatments clean out, LED, clean out, LED, and just really minimal routine, keeping her hydrated, making sure she has bomb for healing. And finally, I was like, Do you sleep on your husband? Like, does he use pomade? Oh god. And so that, but then we figured out it was actually, she's like, I know what it is. She's like, the couch. I always lay on the couch and I cuddle this one pillow. And of course, you're not really cleaning your couch pillows all the time. No, no, for sure. I'm a clean. We've all done that. And after I cleaned her out that week and I said, Don't fucking look at that couch and have your own blanket in bed. Do not share with him and your own pillow. Let's try this. So much better. Amazing. And so it's like it sucks, but to have to dive that deep, but sometimes that's how it is.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

It's the detective work. It is the detective work.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

And that's why you need to work with a skin therapist who specializes in acne, not a spa, not a definitely not a med spa. They don't do this. They do a number of other treatments, but they do not do this. Um, not a dermatologist. And a good dermatologist will tell you go see an esthetician and come back if you're hitting a wall. Yeah. And anybody should be seeing an esthetician that focuses on acne to work on this because you need to be coached. It isn't, it is, we are retraining your follicles and we're retraining your brain.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

So part of this, another episode I think we're gonna go into in like part three is we're gonna talk about like the little like lifestyle habits that I feel like we've come across that changing a small little thing has helped a lot of people. So I feel like that's gonna be really important that we discuss later on. Just that way, maybe someone's like, oh my God, I totally do do that. Or oh my God, I didn't even think about that. That's the hard part. Is it we just don't realize you don't realize you're touching your face, you don't realize that you're putting something dirty, like when you're at the gym or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

You don't realize that your new leave-in hair conditioner was breaking you up. Oh, is that a personal experience, Gabby? That was something that happened to me six months ago. Why are you breaking out on my neck? This is so crazy. I'm very anal about my skin. I know what works, I know what doesn't. Yes, I test products, and so then I know the culprit. So I'm not mad about it when I break out or have a reaction to something. But when I don't know, yeah, oh girl, it's always I will lose my F in mind.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

I know.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

And I bought a new product and I was so insistent it wasn't it. A brand that you always use and a brand I had used, yes. So I was very like, no way. Yeah, and it was absolutely causing me cystic allergic reaction breakouts on my face and neck, and they were painful and horrible. And I'm finally clearing up, but that was traumatic, guys.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Horrible, I know.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

All with all my experience and everything I see with all my clients, it's still traumatic for me as well. And so I that doesn't go away.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Well, because you're like, I should know better. God damn it.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Yeah, it was very frustrating.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

The last part of like, let's talk about acne, what it is, is it's that fungal section that like and I'm seeing a lot of fungal lately. Yeah, it definitely does ebb and flow. I for sure see a huge surge at certain times of the year.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

What is it lately?

SPEAKER_00 14:25

The humid well, right now it's not humid. I mean, the summer, I guess. People are using saunas more often, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

The hot yoga is real gnarly on that, yeah. And the steamy showers when it gets cold, and then the humidity in the bathroom starts getting on all their makeup brushes and all their stuff. I've had a lot of new clients coming in with long-term fungal acne, like 20 years of fungal dress that they thought it was texture, they didn't even know it was acne.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Well, so do you want to explain like what is fungal acne?

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Like, so fungal acne, yeah, it's an overgross of malesthesia, which is a yeast that lives on our skin. We have like five main bacteria that make up our microbiome on our skin. Totally normal, and they should be there. They're good for us, yeah, but they can go out of whack and get thrown off by multiple reasons. Yeah, and malesthesia is one of those that yeast can overgrow very easily because it loves oil, it loves humidity and and moisture, and it loves to just take over. Opportunistic. It's very opportunistic and it's easy to control, but it also is like a fine line because you need to control and reduce the oil and water without stripping your barrier completely. And so it's a I have my protocol. Yes, I have a protocol for it that works great, but it's a very sensitive moment in time because we want to make sure that we're not throwing you off completely.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

And it's not long term, no, it's very short term. Just to while you're just a couple weeks, honestly. So that overgrowth. So yeast, like we're saying, it's an opportunistic fungus, okay? Uh yeast, whatever. And so there's certain things that we do to help with healing it and treating it. Funny enough, acids are the complete opposite of what you do. They thrive on it, they like it actually. So we do not want to do acid. Benzol does not do shit, benzyl, like she just said, glycolic. No.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Mandelic is the only one that will work. So mandelic is a go-to, and you don't want to overdo it, but Mandelic is super helpful. And I find sulfur essential. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Sulfur has an antimicrobial, antibacterial, and anti-inflammatory properties. But the thing is that sulfur can be extremely drying because it absorbs all of those oils on the colour.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

So you have to be very careful. Yes. So I like to use a very supportive barrier moisturizer that's not overly oily and gonna occlude things too much, but it's going to support and keep the levels normalized so you're not over moisturized, but not strict.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

And so, how do we decide if something is fungal or not? I think that like there's by the look of it. Yes. Yeah, there's like very clear tingle.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Fungal. Yeah. A little bell goes off in my head. I'm like, ooh. These are gonna be fun because they're not painful. And it is kind of fun to remove them. And if I can clean them all out and give you the right regimen, you will clearly what it looks like though. So just like if you're like, it looks different on everyone. So usually they look like blackheads, I would say or comodones.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

They look like closed comodones, like bumps. It's like like honestly, like a lot of like you said it already before, like texture. It's like that forehead that just has like a shit ton of texture, a lot of things on it.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

I feel like on the new clients that I get that haven't taken care of their skin, they're closed. But when I have it on someone who is exfoliating, they look like blackheads.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

So if they get it from like brushes or like I haven't seen them in a bit, and then they come in with this, I'm like, you have blackheads? I was like, I don't think so. Uh-huh. And it's always like in a like in that area, in a certain pattern, and you can tell. I'm like, well, you would have it all over if it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

It's very distinct. It's very there's like a demarcation, honestly, of like when it starts and stops. That's another like sign for it. And then if you look at it and someone looks up like, oh, let's let's some salic on it, or whatever, and it just gets worse and it just kind of starts to grow even more. That's another indicator of oh, we've missed it and it's fungal. Um and like itchy flaky a little bit. And it just doesn't get go away unless you use Mandelic and sulfur, honestly. Um, and then using a good, honestly, what's called moisturizer as well.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

And I've had clients that I've given them the right tools, but like they weren't super consistent, so it's like it was getting better, but it's still there.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

It's like not finishing your antibiotic course. Yes, you're like no longer have that ETI, so you stopped. Like you're so close, just do it. Don't go the full seven days or five-day course. You're like, I stopped at three days. No, you didn't finish it.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Finish the course. Yeah, I have to like threaten them. Like this one client, she really wants appeal. And I was like, I'm not doing appeal until you do what you're supposed to do. I'm definitely not peeling. What a waste. Yeah, and she's like, I'm gonna do it, I swear. I'm like, okay, great. It's for your benefit, but thank you. Thanks. Um it can masquerade a little bit because it can look different in different cases, like it can be very textural with not a lot of bumps that you notice, or they can be bigger bumps. They are like plugs, I feel like when you pull them out, like they just kind of pop out like dry little plugs, and that's why it's kind of fun because they're not juicy, painful, inflamed things.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

So it is fun to remove, and I don't feel bad.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

And so for the most part, it comes from like humidity, from like any, like you said, moist environment. Old products, old, oh my god, yes, old makeup products and skincare products, even like conditioner too. I thought it's important. Like, if you have something in your shower for a really long time, open it up, open that bottle and see if you have any mold or something inside of there too.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

Cause that has a big one thing. People don't realize they're using and they don't realize that products really go bad and rancid, especially like oils. I feel like people love using oils, but they need to understand that just using olive oil or grapeseed, like a kitchen oil on your body and on you, it's not good. First of all, no, don't do that. But second of all, they go rancid within a couple months.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

So they get oxidized, yes, very quickly.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

And so you're gonna keep using them because I know you're not throwing that bottle out after two months, and they're usually huge if they're kitchen bottles, they're big bottles of oil because they're cheaper.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

And people don't realize that that is a huge re way to get this type of acne or other types of clogs because and irritation on the skin, because you're using stuff that's gone bad very quickly. That's why you want to use something formulated for your skin because it has the proper preservatives, not bad ones. It can be citric acid or something chill, but that it has the proper ingredients to help it stay stable and not harm you.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

So that tangent was don't use fucking oils on your face. Please stop. Uh, but so going back really quickly, the fungal that like hot yoga, saunas, yeah, even like if you're going to like a humid environment to like the Philippines or to Miami, whatever, like that you can get you can be prone to getting it over there too. Expired products. And do you find a lot of like teenagers are kind of more prone to it as well, just because of the oil, water levels in the skin and the yes, totally hormonal. But yeah, so those are the three basic ones that are not so basic, but like we have the hormonal, the genetic, and the fungal. Um, but like Abby talked about, like going into like what is acne. So it's it's basically an overgrowth of your skin cells that are not exfoliating off the as they should, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

And I think that going back to why you should always see a professional, because like I said, we can see what type of acne you have almost immediately just by looking and that guttural instinct we get. I get acne because I'm allergic to certain things. So mine, like I can tell when they're like they're really sticky and they're like holes in the face and the neck, and like they're different from a cystic, like an inflammatory reaction. They're just they're different types of acne. Yeah. And then there's the pustulars and the the closed comodones, the nodules. Yes, they're all these different types and they all happen from different reasons. And I like to tell people too, when they're getting more of those deeper inflamed ones, and then as we go through the healing process, they're like, Oh, like now I have a bunch of white heads. Or even if they had the closed comodones, like the dry, like the maturation arrest, where you get like just those hardened white balls everywhere. They people a lot of time like, Oh, my skin's not that bad. I'm like, you have hundreds of comodones everywhere. But then When they're like, oh now I have acne because they got like white heads. I'm like, no, but that's good. Like it's coming to the surface. It's releasing. Yes. And so that's another thing that you need to realize. Well, if you have little white heads, know that you know, maybe you came in contact with something or did something you shouldn't have done on the surface or something or a product or something, but your skin is moving through it and it should go away. And that's fine. That happens to every normal individual here and there and within their life. But if you're getting constant deeper things or things that are or just clothes that are not going away or textural bumps, that's a little different. And that's a chronic issue that you should address.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

And so that's why I wanted to go into the life of a pore. And like, so what we're talking about was hyperkeratosis. So that's like something that like most people that with acne were plagued with that because we're just over proliferating and making more skin cells than the average normal person would be. For me, the way that I approach acne, I believe that there's this thing in the pore called a sac. So what happens is every single, every single pimple that you have that has erupted, has come to the surface, it started out honestly as a blackhead. So that's where that hyperkaratosis is. You have that dead skin that got that head sloughed off-ish, got stuck into the pore, oxidized, mixed with dirt and and sebum, basically, and it becomes a blackhead. So for some people who do not have genetic acne, they don't have air quote hormonal acne, it will stay a blackhead. And it's a blackhead forever until it gets taken out. But for others, like myself, like Gabby included, um, it morphs to the next phase, which is called a comodone. So what happens is the body sees that there's something foreign inside the pore. And what it wants to do is it wants to protect our skin from this foreign body that's inside of it. So what it will do is it'll create this sac. It's a membranous thing that looks like a hollowed out teardrop, basically, because it doesn't want that blackhead content to seep out into the body. So it's encapsulated. And our body does that naturally. So when we have a virus that our body identifies in our immune system, the T cells literally will go and like attach and bind to that virus and encapsulate it so it can't spread anymore. When women have, for example, breast implants that have ruptured, you've heard of encapsulated ruptures. Like the body will try to create a capsule around the silicone or whatever that has now like no longer been inside of that, inside of that implant, sorry, and tries to contain it so it can't go anywhere else. So that's the same thing that's happening with your blackhead. So that sac now, once it's been created, it's there forever. It never goes away. Then the body goes, All right, now I know something is foreign inside of me, I want to get rid of it. So it sends our white corpuscles, which are essentially like our white blood cells, to this area to fight this foreign body, the sac, but it's not able to do anything. It basically, whenever we have a white head, it's the dead white blood cells that come to the surface that have failed that can't get rid of that sack. So when we see that white head, we want to squeeze it, but all we're doing is getting rid of that dead white blood cells and we're actually pushing that sac deeper into the pore. So my technique, what I believe, what I do is I go into the pore and I remove that sac from the pore. Once that sac has been removed, you never break out in that pore again. Like it has to go through the phases of black out decommodant to postural to have a breakout. So yes, there are about like 20,000 pores in our skin. So that's like an insane process, especially for someone who has a lot of acne. But that is how I believe you can truly cure acne is by removing that sac. And so we were talking about this earlier and we're like, let's just start recording because I feel like we're having a good conversation, not recording. But so why I don't believe necessarily with hormonal acne is it's not that, well, let's go back a second. I feel like we were watching some other aestheticians and people talking about like, oh, it takes 90 days for a pimple to form and yada yada. And I both of us, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:22

We don't agree with that. I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that type of thing. I feel like I break out really quickly when I come in contact with something that is going to break me out.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

But so my so then with based off of my theory and how I believe about what I believe about acne is that you broke out. Yes, it happened pretty quickly. That the next day you wake up with a pimple, it's because there was a sac inside that pore that got activated by that aggregate, that like aggregating factor that you, if you ate whey protein or whatever your thing is that like irritates you, it activated that pore, that sac underneath the surface to then like get stimulated to then come up to the surface.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

So I believe that my allergies affect my oil and that it becomes more sluggish and actually can get more trapped. And that the C. acne bacteria that lives on our skin that is very good for us and does a lot of beneficial things for us, get involved when they get trapped in the follicle. Yeah. And then they're eating all the sebum because they love your sebum and they eat all that oil. And then what they off-gas because it's trapped is inflammatory and causes more of that cystic reaction that I get from allergies. Yeah. So it's like a mix of both where I'm prone to clogging, but I do a really good job of maintaining my skin. But when I introduce something that I'm allergic to, it messes with my sebum production and thickens it and causes more possibility for clogging. And so then when I do get those clogs, they are more reactive because I do have more C acne bacterium. Right. Because they have proven that most people that have more inflammatory acne do have more C acne bacterium. I don't think that that means that you're going to have acne. I just think that it is a factor when you are more prone to clogging and your sebum becomes thicker or more, you know, all these things together can create cystic acne. But I don't think that one is a causing the other. You know, I think that altogether it's a perfect storm, and that's why skincare and maintenance and treatments are so important to keep those things at bay. But when I introduce an allergen, this is the perfect storm for me. And that's where that C acne comes in and causes it to not just be a pustular or a papular, it turns into a cystic breakout.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Right. So, and then how I believe it though, so when I I feel like a lot of times people will come to me and be like, I have cystic acne. And it's not like you actually don't know you have cystic acne until you've gone in there and seen what's inside the pore. And so when it's a cyst, it's because that sac has created it's been there for so long that it's created these roots at the bottom of the pore.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Yes, you have to remove it.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

You have to remove it.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

It's essential. And we both agree on this, but I think we have different approaches to but we all agree that we both agree. You have to remove it.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

But so, like with cystic, I think a lot of times people like look at their face and it's like red and puffy and inflamed, and they just immediately and that's not cystic. And I feel like that's something I a common misconception I feel like I see all the time.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

And so I can be cystic, but the thing is mine burst a lot of the time. And you've seen I have you extract me when I'm in these horrible phases, and mine burst. So it really just needs to be cleaned and sterilized at that point because it's almost like ruptured and creates a hole.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Yeah, because when there's something foreign inside of it, the body that's our one of the skin's main jobs is to prevent any like foreign body from invading, right? So we want to clean that pore up. It needs to, or else it's never going to heal properly.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

Oh, yeah. And we also agree that I feel like the clients that come in with the most scarring are ones that people didn't extract. They let their acne heal, or their especially their cystic acne heal, quote unquote, or like put them on hydrating calming products and just like didn't address the infections and inflammation going on. And so they ended up with craters because at the end of the day, what's going on, especially with the bigger they get and the more they're breaking down your collagen.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Oh, like I'm like a loogie.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Yeah, it's disgusting.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Look literally like a loogie.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

It is like it looks like a pore wall. Yeah, it's like a sludgy, like sticky, like yeah, goopy stuff that starts to eat away at the pore wall and create a hole under the surface. And eventually you're going to have a divot there in the skin, which is so upsetting. So you really need to be taking those out. And even if you let it heal, you're a lot of time, these people start to, they continuously will break out in these areas because now it's all scarred and scarred tissue, and then you're secreting still. You're still going to secrete oil and sweat, and it's going to get trapped because it's not a proper follicle to come to the surface anymore. So this is why we are just such huge proponents for proper clinical, like medical grade extractions that are done properly to fully remove the sac and the impaction and clean it out and help it to repair properly.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

This is why you don't squeeze, and this is why, again, not again, but this is something else we're going to talk about, is why we absolutely hate, hate with a passion, kenalog injections. Hate. I will never forget when I was like when I was younger as a teenager, I was reading 17 magazine. It was like, oh, when you're like going to prom and you get a big pimple because it's a stress pimple, like go to your doctor and get it injected and it'll go away. Boom. No, not boom. Like there are so many bad things that can happen. So kenalog basically, it's just a it's just a temporary fix. So kenalog is a steroid injection. Steroids help to decrease inflammation in the body. So what it's doing theoretically is decreasing the inflammation of that pimple that you see on your face. But all that it's doing is it's it's decreasing that inflammation. But it, if you inject too much of it, it can actually ruin the integrity of the pore wall and cause a divot. And so I was at a medical conference that showed the negative effects of a patient who got kenelog injections in her forehead and how it took over three years with lasers to help to resurface the skin to help fix the divot that she had on her forehead. So as you can tell, we don't love quick fixes. We don't love band-aids, and kenelog is a band-aid that we just if someone comes at you with a needle with some kenalog, run.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Yeah, and honestly, just ice it. Benzyl, hydrocortisone. There are a lot of things that you can do to very quickly reduce the size of that. Like get it to control sulfur spot, LED, all these things, high frequency. There's so many things. Like I have clients all the time. Like, if you come, like I will go to Nal and be like, I got shit to do, get this shit out of my face, and she'll extract something and I'll bomb it, ice it, I'll get it flat, and then then I can like heal it and get to cover it even for the next day. It's doable.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

We don't love shortcuts. I wish that clearing acne was fast and easy, but unfortunately, it's not. But there's a lot possible. It's possible, but there's a lot of things that you can do that can also make it worse. Yes. Kenalog being one of them. We talked about life of a poor, we talked about like acne, what it is, the different ones. And then I think we should go a little bit into the why, maybe like not necessarily the physiological why, but like now the external factors. Like you spoke about how yours are allergy related, right? And like I think I want to go a lot into like lifestyle. Cause like we talked about how we're like, you have to be a detective as an aesthetician, like we're comprehensive. So we need to know, like, you know, what we were making a joke that, like, should we have an extra fee where like you wear like a body cam around you like for 24 hours so we can like watch you in your natural habitat and then we can like make notes on what you need to adjust because a lot of times you're not even aware of what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

And we feel like we're so good at what we do, but when we get those rare client cases where we're just like hitting a wall constantly or like it clears, but then something perks up again, and we're like, what is the deal here? It's so frustrating. And so I do really want them to wear this body camp so I can really figure it out. Because I feel like it's just one of those things that you're probably doing. Like I had a client that was getting all these breakouts under her chin. I'm like, this is so weird. What a weird spot. After talking to her for treatment after treatment after treatment, finally, like, I'm like, what do you do all the time? Like, where do you study? Where do you work on your homework? And she finally was like, Oh, I put my chin on my knee all the time. Like, I that's where I rest, I realize. And I was like, bro, it was in her journal entry that I've been making her journal. And she, I was like, put what you're doing all the time that's rubbing on this area. And I was like, Stop doing that. Like she was going to yoga and like then resting on her sweatpants, and you're kneeling on your dirty mat, your sweat. Sorry. Yeah, yeah. So there's a whole and I just started going to the gym every day for the first time in my whole life. Like, this is so new for me. So I feel like I've had to learn a lot. Thank you. I've had to learn a lot about I I actually joked with some of my clients that are trainers and stuff. I'm like, I started working out so I can understand what the hell's wrong with you. Like, because honestly, it's a world I'm not totally accustomed to. Like, we'll go to the gym every now and again, but not every day like this, where it's become like a lifestyle change. And you're trying to eat protein, you're trying to have electrolytes, and oh my god, navigating the electrolyte powders and all the protein powders and that I'm allergic to and all these freaking factors, B vitamins, biotin, and everything. Like it's driving me insane. And I'm really learning, okay, I put my don't put my towel down anywhere. Like I don't touch my face, or before I touch my bottle, I go to the sanitizer and then grab my bottle to go to the next machine. Like you have to become a little psychotic about it. But it all matters. Like headphones, we're using headphones during and so I'm like, okay, well, are you using AirPods? Are you using headphones? Are you how are you doing that? Where are you putting them between workouts? Like all these things matter. And it I sound like a psychopath sometimes, but it really does come down to every little detail. Yeah. And that's why you have to work with a skin therapist because there's no way one person's gonna be able to analyze these things. It's my job, and I still have problems realizing what I'm doing that's causing a breakout for myself. Yeah. And I am in my daily life. And I'm like, what am I doing? And Peter's like, are you spraying that on your hair after your products? And I'm like, oh my God, I am. Like I feel like he pays more attention to what I do than I do.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

But yeah, so there's small little things, and let's just talk about them now. Like, okay, let's talk about the oh my god, the hot yoga thing. Yeah, that one, you gotta break that habit if you're having issues. Like one is you're sweating. Like, and so I always tell people, like, get a thick headband and put that, like half a little bit of it on your forehead and the rest of it actually on your hair. So that way when you're like going downward dog, when you're in any of these inversions, like you're that is going to trap a lot of the sweat so it's not coming down on you. You need to have a separate towel. Okay. So one towel needs to go directly on top of your water bottle so it's not on the floor, because that floor is disgusting, also, because everyone has walked on it with their feet without socks or shoes or whatever. Even with shoes, it would be dirty. It's hot, it's humid. That is just a breeding ground for bacteria.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Yeah. And if you're having dermatitis, fungal acne, acne, cystic or non-cystic, all the things, like all of those things are you need to not be in steam and heat on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

And so, like when Gabby was talking about like, yeah, like we have to pay attention to the little things, like it really is annoying being an acne-prone person, but like I've gotten to a point where I just accept it. Like I can't, I'm not mad at it. You have to accept it. So, like when you're on we're different. When we're on our mat and like you're doing cobra pose, or you're like putting your your they tell you to go on your belly and then turn your head to the left and rest your cheek down. You never put your cheek down. You just at the very beginning of the class, what's the first thing you do? They tell you to kick to the stand at the top of your mat, and then you're gonna do a mountain pose or your first like sun salutation, right? Your feet have just stood there the whole class. And then even if your back's a little bit and then you're bending over and then you have d sweat dripping down on that towel. And then at the very end of class, now it's like 55 minutes in. You now are going to be putting your cheek on that same spot that had your feet and uh sweat there?

SPEAKER_02 36:14

Absolutely not. We should come out with double-sided towels or something, like one side, so they're like the side that you put down and the side that always touches your face.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Different colors that we know, like green is good, red is bad. Absolutely. Because I feel like that's another thing I think about at the gym. I'm like, wait, which side should I just dab my face with? And then I just put on my water bottle. I don't really want to touch out to my face, and then I'm like going crazy.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

So I'm so that's why I have to be super methodical. And I tell all of my clients this too. Like, you have your Stanley, you have your water, your hydro flask, whatever, your water jug now, and I have my towel and I put it on, I put it on top of it. So it's never on the floor. So it's literally on top of the water bottle. And so I know that when I grab it, I'm using from underneath it, I'm taking my dirty hand and picking it up from underneath, and I'm and I'm dabbing. You never wipe all sorts of. No wiping, dabbing only. Dry. So that top part is my face, the bottom part is my hand, and then I put it back down the way that I picked it up. So that way it's not flipped and we're coming out with towels. We're coming out with a travel kit. You guys so many things we've got.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

And a towel. Uh I'm I'm making a pimple kit, like uh eat post and ask. Oh, yeah, emergency emergency. A poor decision. Oh, yes, a poor decision kit. So we have lots of ideas. But yes, it's all methodical and it has to be thought through. So you just have to accept it and roll with punches because you're gonna go insane if you're constantly fighting yourself or mad about it or sad about it.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

But you have to be aware and pay attention to it because another thing. So let's say you work at a desk, you have a desk job and you're using like a phone. Honestly, beginning of your day and multiple times through the day, you need to be taking an alcohol wipe and you need to be cleaning that phone because that is also causing breakouts. Your headphones, like Gabby talked about, like if you have the beats or like the Apple, the headphones, like the big ones that are covering, you need to be cleaning that with hypochlorous acid and also alcohol too. Your cell phone, you should let Amazon, you should be purchasing like a huge box of like a thousand of alcohol wipes because you just need to have them at in any any crevice that you possibly can in your car, in your home, by your bedside, everywhere. And so your phone needs to be clean. What else? Oh, the not touching your face.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

I mean, even I wanted, I saw a girl, she was wearing a baseball capit, and I was like, Oh, that's great to catch your sweat. No, baseball, I'm like the worst when you're working out. And I had never had forehead acne, really. And I got pimpled, and it was one time. One time. That's how you know. And then that week I had pimples and I was like, why on my forehead? And Peter's like, You're wearing that baseball game. Yeah, Peter is a fucking judge. Yeah, you guys all need someone that's watching you in your daily life. But we were just the little thing. Some people can do it, some people can't. And when you're acupone, you can't. Don't wear makeup to the gym. No makeup, no washing. I would say just get up and go. I find my hardest client, one of my hardest clients that I've had to deal with a clear, she has beautiful skin. We've gotten her in such a good place, but she gets certain freak-ups because she works out afterwards. That's the hardest part. And so it's hard because I'm like, what do you do? Do you wash your face 20 times? Like it's hard.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

I think with different cleansers, I think it's different cleansers. So like the midday workout person, gentle. I ha you have to do a gentle cleanser instead of a stripping one. And it's it's like a three time, even though it's like you want to leave the oils, but not the dirt. So it's like we only want you to wash your face twice a day. If you're working out midday, yeah, it's a three-time a day kind of thing. And it's annoying. And hypochlorous acid. Yeah. Then we have, are your products clogging your pores? So Gabby, you went into a tangent on like food oils and everything like that. Like coconut oil is so comiogenic. And people tell you that like the comiogenic scale doesn't exist. I disagree. Gabby, what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 39:29

I don't believe in it really. I believe that if formulation matters, but I do believe if it's an ingredient on its own, it does count.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

So, like what the comeogenicity comiogenicity say that with 25 fast, the comiogenic scale. Yeah. It's basically they would take the back of uh rabbit ears and they would put an ingredient on the back of the ear and then they would grade it from like A to D with how irritating and how much the rabbit ear had broken out, basically. And so, like beeswax, coconut oil, there's certain things like shea butter too, like that do break you out. But I will say one like asterisk with that is that formulation, like Gabby said, does matter. There are some products that do have shea butter on them.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

I used to be so scared of shea butter, but now I've learned that there are products that have it that it is not, it doesn't break me out. And I feel like it really has everything to do with the way the product is made.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Yes. So I do believe in looking at ingredients and understanding, like, hey, this is something that really affects me and I break out from this one. Like, I will steer clear of anything with beeswax. Like, I still just won't. Like it just is too occlusive. Shea butter, if it's kind of towards the end of the ingredient list for me, then I'm kind of okay with it. But again, I do agree that like formulation does really matter. But I do believe in that comiogenic scale because that is how I help people figure out what makeup is best for them. Because Yeah, makeup is very acne-causing.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Like it is really hard, and you cannot go off the labels. I do not believe they're labels for one second. A lot of the acne safe products are absolutely not acne safe.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

I got me, aesthetician, almost 14 years. Like, I got swindled. I'm not a makeup person. I went to go get my makeup done for a wedding. And the guy who like he was fabulous. He literally looked like Sam uh, oh my god, Sam Smith, but like also had hot pink hair and everything. And so I was like, I just want natural, like I don't like like looking like I have a lot of makeup on. He used uh House Labs, the Lady Gaga one that is marketed as a skincare makeup that's non-comiogenic, like da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And I was like, Okay, cool. Like bought it, bought like the powder, bought like from I bought like so many different things. What happened? I broke out and I was like, What? I didn't even think about it. And then I looked at the ingredients and I was like, oh my god, like I didn't even, I didn't even me, this person who checks everybody else's ingredients and stuff and products, I didn't even check it for myself.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

And we can't say like, oh, I just use it one time or I don't do it often because that does not matter. I have used something one time and gotten breakouts. So if you're acne prone, you're acne prone. It's not five days out of the seven days of the week, it's every day. It's every day.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

It's a lifestyle. And then something else too, like I think that we all know our triggers for where we learn our triggers. And so when we talk about food related, so like I know like I have a client that like she knows that when she does have dairy that it makes her break out. And I remember watching a a live with you with Jan, Jan Morini was talking about like what it is in dairy. And I will say, I was like, ugh, whatever. There's a well, she was saying there's a point to it that it's the hormones in the milk that you're ingesting that are then causing the influx or the dysbiosis in the body, which is then causing the flair.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

But some are more susceptible than others. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

So I was like, okay, that makes more sense. So it's not just the dairy itself, the lactic acid or the lactase or whatever. It's more of just like the product that you are consuming.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

And we're the first ones that will be like, live your life. Like, I really hate having to tell you like no dairy. Like, I'm not that aesthetician. I will never tell you not to have food that you love or enjoy your life. Like have alcohol, have the drink, whatever. Just know that maybe you'll get a pimple from it, maybe you won't this time if you're really on top of your skincare, or do things to try and prevent it or support it, but just live your life. But be aware. Like, don't have dairy every single day if you know it is a strong trigger for you. Maybe have your ice cream and then take a couple days off. I always say it takes about three days to build up in the system. And I've found that as an allergy prone person, yeah, that it takes me about three days to fully detox, remove something from my system that I ingested that was inflammatory for me. So if I have something and then I don't for three days, I'm usually gonna be okay or I'll get a little reaction and then I'll be fine. But if I'm doing it every day for a couple days, that's when I really have a blow-up that is a little harder to manage.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

What else do you so? I mean, I think whey also that goes into like the hormones of like what the the main ones product are. What else do you think? I think a big one peanut. Peanut for sure. Another one that I saw was like, I remember like Celsius had Celsius is huge right now, and I feel like they have been. It's the the vitamin B's and the biotin. Biotin is biotin, huge, don't. But so it's those, I feel like when I've talked to clients that have it and they've cut it out, they stopped breaking out.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

Yeah, like oh yeah, they do. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

And there's different energy drinks that don't have excessive amounts of B12 in it, and the biotin is. But even then, again, in moderation. In moderation. I know people love their fucking Celsius. I get it, they can't function without.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

It's gonna give you a heart attack.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

But there's worse ones out there.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

I mean, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

But there's other energy drinks that don't have that that won't contribute to the breakout. So yeah, with dairy, peanut, eggs, it's another one. You know what's funny? I actually had a client a long time ago. Hers was sugar, but natural sugar, like fruit sugars. Oh, interesting. And the funniest part is it was really hard to pen down what was causing her breakouts. And her breakouts were those really gooey, loogie ones that we were talking about when we talked about, well, what are you eating? We went through a diary, she wrote down everything she ate in in a week, and she loved a sahi bowls, but like would get like bananas and fruits and whatever on it. And then we asked, like, okay, I think we need to cut this out because this is the one constant that you've been eating that, like, let's just see, okay? It's the one thing she didn't want to give up. Yeah. Don't eat dairy. Okay, no problem. Don't have coffee. Okay, no problem. No more peanut butter, no problem. It's usually the thing that you that you use the most. That you use the most, that you don't even want to stop using is usually the culprit.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

I will say, with my allergies, that's what it was. It was things, and I do firmly believe at this point with my experience that you give yourself allergies by using and eating things often. Yeah, introducing so you you you build up a histamine reaction to certain things. And so mine is tuna red tuna and red chili. Um I was eating a lot of I'm Italian. My dad put it in everything. I was having spicy tuna rolls or spicy tuna bowls, or I was having tuna sandwiches. Like I was being a little crazy, but it was just my favorite thing and it was easy to access at work. And I built up a resistance to it, and I started becoming extremely reactive to this day, even though I've cut it out. If I try it just a little bit of it, I start to feel that migraine coming on and the inflammation spiking. And it just it sucks because I love those things. But it is usually the thing you love and are using the most that you start to build a resistance to.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

Yeah. And so it's just a matter of again, just knowing.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Be aware.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Power, knowledge is power.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

Yeah, journaling helps a lot.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

It does. So, and then the one last part that I think I want to talk about, like what might be contributing to your acne is the how much are you exfoliating? How let's talk about this. How balanced, let's get your skin balanced. We want your skin balanced. That's number one, right? So if you're oh, we've already talked shit about this. I'm gonna say the polished choice, like uh Baja solution that's 2% salicylic. I can't tell you how many people I've seen who are on it who are just so dry because they think that they need this for their acne.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Most people with acne think they're oily, but they're not, they're imbalanced, and then they start to treat the oil instead of the acne and like the skin overall and make everything so much worse.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

And then you have people who are like, I remember a client that came to me from a derm that was literally, she looked like a deer in headlights. She like was, I'm not gonna you given clindamycin, topical clindamycin uh mixed with benzyl peroxide, salicylic solution, and trutino, and with no instructions on what to use and no, no, no discussion of moisturizer. Let's just strip your barrier, make it burn, and have fun. Like, here you go. Like, what? Like, not even one like sheet to show, like, hey, like AM and PM, nothing, okay? But if you're overexfoliating, that actually is gonna make your acne worse because again, you have an imbalance in the skin.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

And really quick, products that are from a pharmacy like that, a prescription grade, is not formulated. Like there's no formulation behind it. It is just a compound of basic ingredients to be able to be applied. So you have to remember that these are raw ingredients that are not buffered or formulated in any type of delivery system. So they are going to initially burn the top of your skin immediately every time.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

They're not created with the skin in mind. That's the thing. They're not created with the skin in mind. So it's like taking something from your fridge. I've worked with a compounding pharmacist for a really long time and I've I've made a lot of different solutions and actually some eye creams and things like that. But when I speak with him, he's a chemist and a pharmacist, okay? But his idea is like, oh yeah, more is more, like stronger is better. Like, but no, like we want skin isn't doesn't always need the strongest acid or the strongest solution. Like you want it to be the most efficacious, but without being irritating an irritant or being irritated.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

And longevity of use of products and consistency is way more important, and you'll get more benefit than just like going at it bull, like headfirst. Yeah, yeah. So it's about a balanced routine, and it's exful it's a balance between the exfoliation and the hydration. Like it's not a competition. Like you don't, you're not going to win by going the strongest with something just to clear your acne. It's never gonna work.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

I have found that, and I'm new to this. Gabby's been doing this for a long lot longer than me. The Jan Morini skin zyme, like I have some people using that three times a week as their like exfoliant too. It's amazing. It's amazing. And an enzyme is so gentle, it's not stripping, it's actually hydrating.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

I always say it's your best friends. You can never overdo it.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

You can leave it on for hours and you're totally fine, but it still does the job and you can feel it working. Yeah, I love it. So, like, acids, not acids, exfoliation doesn't have to be aggressive, but if it is on the verge of aggressiveness, whatever, it needs to be met with its counterpart, which is the hydration and moisture too. And then that goes into that, ties up our little like topic of this is why you need to see a professional.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

Yes, you do, because there's so many different options. And a scrub is the last thing you should be grabbing for. The a scrub, I rarely use scrubs in my personal routine or with clients. It is the last thing I go for down the line with certain clientele with the skin that might need that little buff. But again, even if I grab a scrub, it's a very gentle scrub, and I'm not having them use it every day. So you need to be aware of that as well.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

Scrubs, I just feel like are so 90s. 90s. Yeah, it's it's archaic. It's archaic. It's same as microdermrasion. Someone's microderming you, like also, how when's the last time they were in a continued education class? Yeah. Honestly, microderm is one of the worst things you can do for your skin. It's not really a true form of exfoliation. You're literally sanding your face, and then the skin will then try to react to it. And what it does, its defense mechanism, is to become more thick and callous, to callous over the aggressiveness of that sanding process from that dermation. So no. Same with the scrub, you don't scrub your pimples away, you don't scrub your acne away, your blackheads away. That doesn't work that way. We want to train your skin to do what it's supposed to do properly. Which is to take off your at the right rate. Exactly. It's it's a and sometimes it's it's a little sooner than most. Like I'm every 21 days. I need to. If I go every 28 days when I do my glycol, I start to break out. I need it every three days.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

I can tell when I'm built up and like, and that's where my clients, once they get trained, I I my Peter says I'm a drug dealer because once they get trained and they see what their skin is actually supposed to be like, they get addicted in a way because they are like, okay, if I go too long without my facial and I'm not doing like the most at home, I can feel the buildup and the change and I can see it in the mirror. And I don't want that anymore. And it's good because then they're going to have healthy, radiant skin for life. Like it's a trained thing. And once you experience it, you become hooked because you're like, whoa, this is incredible.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

And that's why, again, going to see a trained professional, because one, it helps you avoid knowing that someone is going to take care of your skin. So that way you you're not prone to picking. If you are prone to picking, then like maybe you believe, like, okay, someone else is gonna take it out, take that sack out, I'm gonna heal properly instead of making a big mess, which I get it.

SPEAKER_02 50:52

We all are prone to picking. I do have my clients that like they're like, I'm gonna live my life, I stay up late, I drink, I do, I eat bad food, and I'm just gonna come get my facial and you're gonna fix it.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

Yeah, which is fine. I'm here for it. Whatever you like. But it's just to say that like we know what's best for your skin, and like in us we trust. And if you go to Sephora and you talk to somebody, like they give you skincare. I mean, that's just whatever the sales is. I'm sorry. Sorry, they don't know skincare. They don't know your skin. Yeah, and also AI could never like I was already starting to see like AI coming up with like custom uh skincare routines.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

I was just watching an AI video of someone that was fake and it did I it was hard to tell.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

My husband is so like in this K-hole of AI taking over the world of where our world is gonna in like 10 years from now, even five years from now, like where no one's gonna even have any jobs. But remember, they'll never have your best interest at heart.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

They're always their goal is a sale.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

But it's also not cookie cutter, it's not black and white.

SPEAKER_02 51:44

So AI again could never people they'll never know that you're putting your face on your knee af after yoga.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

Unless they analyze your general routines. I don't know. I don't know. I think I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

I think that's a little crazy.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

So yeah, so this is, I mean, there's so much to go over. I think this is why we didn't even approach acne just yet as an episode because it's just dreading it a little because there's so much. So much. And I feel like we didn't even really touch on everything yet. But I hope you guys learned a little bit and thought to yourself, like, oh shit, I do rest my chin on my knee. Yeah. And remember that you're not alone. You're not alone, and we all have these weird habits that we're not aware of. I hope you understand a little bit now of like what causes acne, like what how it's happening, and how you probably could try to prevent it too. But yeah, we're gonna open up and have some questions too. So that way when you guys text us or like, I don't know, write in, we can answer some questions too on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 52:36

Yeah, we'll do that.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

All right, you guys. Well, thanks for listening to you next time.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

Talk to you next time.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

I don't know. Cool, whatever. Okay, smile later. We really want to hear from you guys. So after you listen to the episode today, let us know your comments, questions, concerns. We want to keep this in open dialogue.

SPEAKER_02 53:04

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SPEAKER_00 53:12

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