EPISODE 6: Microneedling

Curious about microneedling and how it can transform your skin? This episode breaks down everything from the science behind collagen and elastin stimulation to the types of microneedling available, so you can safely achieve smoother, more radiant skin.

Learn how proper skin prep, needle depth, and timing between treatments affect your results, what issues microneedling can address—from pigmentation to acne to eczema—and why at-home microneedling can be risky. Plus tips for post-treatment care, swelling management, and understanding when professional intervention is crucial.

Subscribe to the Pore Decisions podcast to stay informed on advanced skincare treatments and learn how microneedling can safely enhance your skin’s health and help you avoid making any Pore Decisions. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

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SPEAKER_01 0:51

Seriously. Hey, are we ready?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

I think we're ready.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

World, it's us again.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Hi, Skinthusiast.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

We are here. We have been working on, honestly, we've been wrapping our brain. We have so many topics that we wanted to discuss, and we just don't know where to start. But I think we did decide on something today, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

One of our favorites.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Oh my god, I do love this a lot. So today we are going to discuss microneedling. Oh my god, I do really love microneedling. It is my favorite. And it honestly, a lot of my clients will tell me that like I'm withholding to them because I won't let them microneedle.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

I let them graduate to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

It's an honor. It totally is an honor.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yeah, you want to your skin to be in the best shape possible so you can actually get really good results.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yes, like let those benefits really show.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Don't waste the money.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

No, so today we're gonna discuss microneedling. We're gonna do a little bit of a background, like the history of it, just so you guys can understand, and also like what it is. I feel like so many times I'll get clients that are like, what is microneedling? So we will break that down for you, get ready to get into some geeky, nerdy uh tech science-y terminology. You will hopefully not be over your head.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

And hear white, everyone should be doing this basically.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

So, Gabby, take it away. Talk to us about the history of microneedling.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Well, microneedling, we can go all the way back to 100 BC to ancient China, where they were using this for acupuncture. And acupuncture is basically opening channels in the skin to promote natural self-healing, which is exactly what microneedling is.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

That makes so much sense.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

And so that was way back when. And then the first time we actually had a doctor introduce some type of microneedling treatment was with German dermatologist Ernest Kromager.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

We totally said that right.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

I hope so. He used dental burrs or those little drill, dermadrills, to ablade the skin and abrade the skin.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Super archaic, honestly. If we were done today, we would be like, There's so many lawsuits would be in right now.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

And this was the early 1900s. So he would use this to treat different skin conditions. And then the first time we actually had needling for the skin was Dr. Desmond Fernandez in 1995 in Philadelphia, where he started treating wrinkles and scars with hypodermic needles. And he was the first to develop the small needle stamp.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

So that's kind of where it all started. And from there we spun into derma rollers, which I'm sure all of you have seen and we are not huge fans of, and we'll explain why. And then we went more into these collagen induction devices. And so that's where we're at today. And we have lots of great collagen induction devices to choose from, and they're amazing.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

And so I feel like they have so many different terminology that people get confused by. We have micro channeling, microneedling, nano needling, nano needling, collagen and induction therapy, if you want to get all fucking fancy, which I think is not necessary. And then also radio frequency microneedling, like Morpheus is like a main one that everyone knows about, but RF microneedling, which we will touch on as well. So now, okay, fine, you have the history, but what the fuck is microneedling, right? So why we love it, okay, is it's we're using a device that is pushing and creating this like controlled trauma into the skin. And so Gabby was we were talking about it, usually comes in like either 12, 16, or there can be more in the needle head. It's a hypodermic needle, so it's sterile. This is a sterile technique.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

One-time use.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

One, oh my god. That did you remember that story about like patients getting HIV at a med spa in uh in her school?

SPEAKER_00 4:17

And that really gave microneedling a bad thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Oh my god, people like does microneedling give you HIV? I'm like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

No, irresponsible doctors give you HIV.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Be smart. Seriously. You do not reuse needles, guys. No, these are one-time use. I mean, if you're diabetic, if you're a heroin addict, you just don't reuse your needles. That's it, basically. Period. Period. So, so what's happening is we have this pen that's oscillating. And so it is puncturing the skin at exactly the depth that we want, which we will talk about why and what that means.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

To create controlled damage.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Which is pretty much trauma. Everything we do is controlled trauma in some way to get a good result.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Like when we do a chemical peel, we are doing a controlled burn to the skin. So same with microneedling, we are controlling the trauma, the depth of how hard how far we are actually hitting to your epidermis, and and then also what we get to put inside the skin as well. So we'll talk about that as well. But so basically, you're gonna come in, you're gonna get numbed. That is the best part about microneedling is you really don't feel it other than you feel the kind of vibrations. And then we are creating this controlled trauma, usually at like a pinpointed blood-like tinged kind of appearance, is what we would, we do want. That's a clinical indication that we've gotten to the point where we want to get to. And then basically your skin gets to heal. And then from that healing process, that's when the reward comes from.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

I like to tell people it's kind of like other things that we do, like intermittent fasting, cold plunge, all these things to stress the skin and kind of throw it outside of its comfort zone to make it work harder. And that's what we're doing here is we're shocking it, we're causing it to have to heal itself. If you don't use it, you lose it type of idea. You want to create that damage that your skin has to get it together, get it shit together and actually work. Right. And if it's gonna work, it's gonna get better and better and better. And that's how you're gonna keep yourselves youthful.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

So there is a little bit of a downtime. I think a lot of people like, but it's like anything that really works.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

You need downtime.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

You need downtime in order for the skin to heal to repair itself. So so now you have this pen, okay, that's pushing these little needles into the skin. And so it's creating these little, like, imagine holes, and I'm probably gonna get so much flack for saying holes right now, because we'd be like, What? It's putting holes in your skin.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

But yeah, tiny microscopic holes.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Exactly. And so what happens is that when in our bodies, whenever we have like a cut, for example, we have this thing called a fibrin cascade, okay? That is creating this clot to create like a hemostasis so that way it stops bleeding. We're not microneedling to the point where you're bleeding to that point, but when we activate fibrinogen, that will also help with creating that collagen and elastin because those collagen fibers are actually what a scab is made out of. So that is like there's your little sciencey little facts. Um, we are literally by creating that controlled trauma, we are creating collagen and elastin in the skin. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

And this is why I'm so specific and why we say our clients get to graduate to it because if you are not properly preparing your skin prior to this and during and after this, then you are not going to get the result you want. I have not, I can't tell you how many times I have a client come in with what they are calling acne, but it's not actually acne. And they had done microneedling with PRP or something at some mud spa. They had never been on home care, and they're actually getting almost blister-like lesions because they have full scar tissue covering their follicles. You can see that you can't see the follicle heads. Like they're covered with scar tissue and their secretions, their oil and sebum is getting stuck. Their siebum and their their sweat is getting stuck under this scar tissue layer, causing these acne-like, quote unquote, lesions, but they're not acne. And so I end up having to do a series of peels on them to remove all this damaged skin that didn't turn into collage and it turned into scar tissue. And this was because they were not prepped properly, they were not treated properly, there was probably micro-tears going on, improper product usage going on, improper depth going on, where people were doing this that don't understand what their outcome is supposed to be. Yeah. And now these people are left with scar tissue buildup that's causing other issues, and they're misinterpreting them as acne. So I see this all the time. We peel it all off and treat the skin and rehab it, basically, and then it's all gone. And they're like, oh my God, I spent thousands of dollars on a series of treatments that made me so much worse.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

That's why I tell people like, you don't come to me and tell me what you want, I tell you what you need. So, like, I have had clients that have gone to medzas, gone micro-needling with PRP, and then skin looks great. Fine, they didn't have that issue. That sounds horrible. But like, what is it doing though? So you did one treatment, like, is that enough? Is that doing anything? Absolutely not. So basically, uh after the age of 25, we lose about one to 1.5% of collagen a year, which is scary. It's disgusting, honestly. It's horrible. So now it can enter in microneedling as a modality that we're using. So in addition to your vitamin C and your skincare that you're using, and in addition to the glycolics and the chemical peels that you're doing, then comes microneedling. So we're like Gabby said, you're kind of like cold plunging, shocking the skin, and you're you're mixing it up. Like my analogy is that like when you go to the gym and like you have leg day, you have arm day, you have full body, you don't do the same exact workout every single day. You mix it up, and the same thing with weight. It's like you're never gonna you're never gonna have any muscle gains if you continually lift the same amount of weight. You need to create those micro tears in your muscles in order to build muscle, and that's why you increase your weight in order to have that happen. And so that's what's happening with our skincare. We're kind of like uh mixing it up a little bit. So I believe that skin likes consistency, but like with in-clinic treatments, we do need to mix it up so that way the skin is you're creating collagen and elastin from different depths. So, like with their glycolics, which we've talked about, love glycolics, that is helping at a surface level to train the body to make new collagen elastin, where now we're going a little bit deeper with microneedling, creating that controlled trauma now at a different depth, creating more collagen elastic.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

And depth matters. And this is the other thing, and this is why you want to see a professional. Like, even I, as a professional, I prefer a professional to do my treatments because it's going to be more thorough. They're going to be able to see better, they're going to be able to change depths and treat things that I can do, but on yourself, it's just not as it's harder to hold the pen properly. It's harder to get as aggressive in certain areas on yourself as you would on someone else. And I really prefer someone else to do my treatments. I, yes, can do mine, but I prefer not to. I think it's more thorough having someone else do it because the depth matters and different areas of the skin, you're going to do different things. And so stamping technique, this is why you want someone who's very skilled in this and understands the anatomy of the face or whatever area you're microneedling and what you're trying to achieve. Because are you trying to treat scar tissue? Are you trying to build collagen? Are you trying to treat pigment? Are you trying to treat laxity? There's all these different things that you can be doing and different ingredients you can be using during that session that's going to make that happen.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

And so this is our PSA, you guys. Do not microneedle at home because you don't know what you're doing. It's what she was talking about is the different depths. We go like 1.5. That might not mean anything to anybody, but on the neck, honestly, on the jawline, the cheeks, I kind of go a little aggressive. Underneath the eyes, I know it can be like 0.25. I sometimes go 0.5, like depending on how somebody can tolerate it. But you don't know what you're doing. And then we have bacteria on our skin. We have a healthy, good bacteria. If you are creating the control trauma at home because you think you know what you're doing, you are can actually create a systemic infection on your skin. You can create uh a dermatitis, you can create a actually a full-blown infection with like a staphylococcus kind of issue going on. We're gonna have to do an antibiotics. Is that derma roller really doing anything? Like, do you think that derma roll is and is penetrating it at 1.5 millimeters on your skin? Like you guys, like, let's think about this. If it does, that is so scary if you think it actually does, because then you need you need some psychological counsel, but also throw away that derma roller. It's not doing what you think it's doing. Um, but Gabby touched on this though. What are the clinical indications of microneedling? We have acne scars. So you have after like some people who have had acne when they're younger and they're left over with those like painting, those hypertrophic or atrophic kind of scars. That is really amazing because you're creating that remodeling in the skin. Honestly, it works really great for hyperpigmentation, for melasma, even, and for building that collagen lastin. So we're talking about like skin tightening, and it's not just for the face, it's for the neck, for the the chest, for the body, for the hair. There's research that's being done now where you're microneedling into the scalp with PRF or certain solutions to help. So that is the that is the amazingness of microneedling.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

I love adding on different things with it. So there's all these different things that you can do that professionals who have experience are aware of. And it's important to know what you're doing. And so to touch on that more, like adding peels on, adding brightening agents on, adding like okay, yeah, zomes or PDRN or whatever. It goes on and on and on. But that's why you want to see someone who is very skilled in this and does this all very often and on different types of skin types so that you can get the most benefit possible. You're spending money, get what you can out of it.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Yeah. And like this is why this is why Gabby and I love each other. We are crazy mixologists, and that's why we love microneedling too, because it's so customizable. Like, oh my God, the fucking solutions that you could mix, it's so exciting.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

It really is.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Oh my god, honestly, like whenever somebody comes in, I'm like, what am I gonna do today? And I have all my little vials and I'm like pulling it up, and then you pull too much because you're like, I just want to do it all. But that is what's so exciting about microneedling is that not only are you creating that collagen induction, okay? So you're creating that trauma, the body has to repair itself. So those little holes that I was talking about, those little channels now are open. So that's the really, really cool part about the customization of microneedling is that we get to then figure out what are we gonna put into the skin so that way it penetrates deeper and actually does something. Because a lot of times with like products, some products are really expensive, da-da-da. Product formulation is so important because we need to know how is it going to penetrate the skin. But now you have this ability because we've created these channels, we know that we're getting into the layers, deeper layers of the epidermis acid, actually. So that is exciting. So we can you can do acids, like we talked about, certain types of like coenzymes, amino acids, peptides, like skin brighteners. There's just so much. It's it's honestly endless. Like, I think the probability if you put everything together, there's like maybe a hundred thousand different varieties of things you can put on the skin.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

So many different things. And it's also great because I see such a difference in people's skin health from doing microneedling treatments. Like, it's not just about getting change in like the pigment or whatever, their skin gets stronger and healthier. Like over time, you even months after a series of microneedlings, you can see their skin, their oil is more balanced, their pores are more refined, their acne is more controlled, the oxygenation that's caused by microneedling the skin and getting more control over bacteria and things like that that are maybe living there that you've had an overgrowth or an overproduction of, or things that you've had trouble stabilizing, it gives you that one-up.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Well, it like strengthens your skin. It really does. So that way, like you can then heal faster and better. And so there's been clinical trials, studies that basically have told us that microneedling is amazing. Not that we'd needed to see that, but so they've done cross-sections of the skin. So it was a 70-year-old patient. They took a skin cell, right? Not a cell, sorry, a piece of their skin, and then they thought, you know, you can dye it with purple, and then you can see the difference between the epidermis and the dermis. I know me too. So it was like super wavy the first one, because this showed that this person had a lot of like fine lines and wrinkles, their skin laxity was probably really uh thin because that top epidermis layer was thin. And then after doing four series of micro-needling treatments, it increased the collagen production by 400%. So that does not mean that one treatment equals 100%, even though that's what the math kind of shows, but it's a compounded 400%. So after the four treatments that were done, this lady's skin in this again cross-section, they redyed it, and you could see it was so much thicker. It was a 400% thicker than it was from the initial of you know, prior to starting the treatment for the clinicals and the epidermis as well. And there was more collagen fibers that you saw. Yes, they were neater, exactly. Good term. So it really, it's not bullshit, you guys. It really is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

And that's why I always feel so sad when someone like starts a series and then they take a break or like something comes up and they don't, they're like, oh, I have an event. I just I'm like, no, you want to do them consecutively. It's important because they compound on each other. That's how you get the amplified result. It's really important to stick with the plan and do it, especially because I always tell people the first time's the worst time. The first time we do anything, appeal, anything aggressive on you, even a facial, it's shocking. And so you're your skin's gonna be a little bit more inflammatory, a little bit more reactive, unsure of what to do. But now it's learning what to do. So the next time you do it, it's gonna be almost 50% less recovery because you're in that healing zone. You're already, your skin's like, oh, I've been here, I know what's going on. And then by the third or fourth time, your skin's like, I got this, don't worry about it. I'll be healed in a day. You got this, girl. Like, just enjoy the collagen I'm about to make for you. I love that. So it makes a big difference in the stability and the health of the skin, and you can really see it over time. And I think that's the coolest thing to show clients that and they start to recognize, like, wow, look at my skin, look at it be less reactive. Like for rosacea, insanely beneficial. Not just like pigment and aging. It's it's really helpful for inflammatory issues. Eczema, I see clients' skin, like the first time you do it, they shed like crazy. But then after that, their skin just becomes less sheddy, less peely, less, less inflamed and irritated. It likes it.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Yeah. So having said that, let's talk about like what is the downtime? Am I gonna be able to leave afterwards? Like, how bad is it gonna be? Is it like a seven-day kind of big peel thing? And and the answer is maybe yes and no. Yeah. Depends on how healthy your skin. Everybody's skin is totally different. Like for me personally, and I'm not trying to be an asshole. I literally leave after Gabby needles me. I look like I got a little bit of a sunburn, and then the next day it's kind of you don't notice anything. It's that's it. And we've done peels on top of me, and I don't even peel. Like it's nothing happens. For other people, I feel like they're red for like maybe one to two days. You're a little dry, you're a little flaky, you're gonna adjust your home care, which let's talk about that too. Um, but it's really not that bad, you guys. Like it's not debilitating. You really don't not need to leave the house or like take time off of work. Like you can go to work, everyone's gonna be like, oh, what did you get done? That's exciting.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Yeah, the first 24 hours are the only time you really need to be a little bit more cautious. No makeup and no makeup, no excessive products, like just be very chill and hydrating. Hydration is key with treatments like this, just like lasers or anything we do, anything ablative that punctures the skin or opens the skin is going to deplete all the hydration from the skin. And water is essential for healing. So you need those water molecules to help your cells repair and to rebuild. And so you want to be constantly introducing the hydration and giving a layer, like an occlusive or something, to seal it in and make sure it's not completely evaporating again to make sure you get the best benefit.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Like I have people stop all acids, like they're not doing anything exfoliating.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

You don't need to do acids.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

I do have them reintroduce their vitamin C though. I do. Um, honestly, at the next night, yeah. I like another one day off, and then like that night they will start it, right? And then there's a delaying glow. Like so then your skin can be like, Yeah, you gotta give it a sec. But people want that instantaneously.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

But I tell them it takes about two to three days for new cells to push old cells off. So about day three is when I usually have people using an enzyme or something to gently sloth off that layer to help them. Um, and honestly, I have clients do it every day for a couple days, and they're glowy AF very, very quickly. And I say a full week before you're like noticing the change, and two weeks you start to see more of a glow, and four to six weeks, you're like, oh shit, I look good. It did something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

So again, amazing for acne scars, like for those boxcar ice pick, like the neckline necklines are incredible.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

After one, you can really start to see a difference.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

I notice it even for the under-eyes because there's certain areas where you really can't Botox, like that under eye skin, because it's gotten just so frail and it's not about the muscle movement anymore. So I go all the way up into that orbital rim, honestly, and I fuck you up basically. But microneedling is just amazing for the fine lines, for the pigmentation. Again, like putting in acids for pigmentation, for hyperpigmentation, or even like after you've had you know how you have acne marks, and if you're a little tan person, like it just that acne mark leaves, stays and lingers for fucking months. Microneedling is one of the best things to do for those PIH because it just like speeds up that recovery basically.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

And you can microneedle over acne. Now, here's my thing with I did not believe this, by the way, you guys. I was very believer. And now it's because tell me you got to know what you're doing, first of all. If you're a full face of acne, I'm not microneedling you. Sorry, I feel like that's a waste of microneedling. We need to clear the acne and balance your skin. You want your skin to be healthy, yes, but people can have acne and have healthy skin. Like you can still get breakouts. What you want to do is if you are having those types of breakouts, but you've gotten a long way, microneedling actually oxygenates the surface of the skin and really actually pulls everything out for you. That oxygen helps to kind of purge out anything lingering in the skin. And so within that week after, anything lingering will purge, and then you will actually look much better and it will help you control the acne over time. And I do find that, or I'll pop something out and then we'll microneedle right then and it will help you recover better. You won't have so much PIH and PIE, that post-inflammatory, you know, leftover marks and stuff. It'll all heal so quickly. And it is very safe to do if you know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

So if someone has like active acne, okay, they're having pustules, white heads, you're needling over it and you're saying that the oxygenation from that trauma is creating it to come even closer to the surface. And then are people coming in like a week later for extractions, or what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Sometimes yes, depending on what's going on. Typically, I clear them. Or if it's a bigger lesion, I'll remove it before we needle because I just don't think I want to waste your healing time on a pimple that's gonna come to the surface. And I know a lot of other practitioners do do that, they'll microneedle right over it and let you purge. I think it's kind of a waste because I feel like you want to remove that so that they just heal and look amazing and can move on from it. But if there's like little white heads and stuff, you'll just that will just come out with your routine and you'll be fine. It just depends on the level of acne and what's going on, but it is safe to do.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

I feel like it is a waste of your recovery.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

So, like for me, I think I'm a little old school. Like I do extractions before microneedal. Like if you have. The needling is gonna stimulate. That's why, again, I don't needle you on your first treatment or even like the second one because there's definitely the surface that they're gonna come up. Same with like peels, too. I don't peel you in the first few sessions because the peels are gonna be super stimulating and you're not gonna be happy. You're gonna think peels are gonna solve your problems and they're not. So we need to make sure you're cleared out. We need to make sure that all the comodones, everything that's underneath the surface, those sacks have risen to the surface and we know that you're gonna be good, then we do the peels, then we do your microneedling. But to be honest with you, I still feel like, and I know it's this old school mentality, but like having that pustules, the pustules on top, if I don't extract them and I'm just needling over it, I fear about like spreading that bacteria around. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

I don't fear that.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

I don't think you took a class and you like learned about it.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

I really don't feel like that's that's like an old school, I know, but and it is easier to just remove it and move on. So I I totally get it and I respect that. But I do feel like sometimes there are some that I'm like, well, I'm just gonna microneedle and stamp that area and it will honestly extract it sometime with while I'm needling. But you're not getting the sack out, but it will, it will, it will oxygenate it out, and it it is interesting, it depends on the lesion. It really depends on the lesion. You have to see it. So I don't do it on everyone. Like I had someone yesterday and she had like two pustulars, and she doesn't usually, it was just from a trip she was on. I took them out and then I needled. Like I'm not gonna leave that, like that's kind of lazy. Yeah, but I do feel like if they have like little congestions here, like I'm not gonna do a full-blown facial on you and then microneedle you. I agree, they're gonna come out. They're surface, they're not postular, like I don't care. Like you deal with it, and they will, and they have the products and it'll be fine. And especially because I don't want to skip a microneedling because of a little clogging of a follicle. Like it's it depends what it is. Yeah, but it does work great. And sometimes if I'm putting a peel on, I really won't waste my time because I am gonna put a peel on at the end and it's going to do the job for you. That's true. So it just depends. But also, you have to trust your provider and know that they know what they're doing because everyone's different. I can microneel someone, they could not flush, and it'll flush later, and that shows me that their skin is unhealthy. Because if their skin is not healthy, it's going to be a delayed response. A lot of older clients have this where their skin does not even start to realize there's trauma for hours.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

And that's because our blood vessels, basically, like we do not have as much good of circulation as we did when we were younger. When we get older, our vessels get a little bit more narrow, and so that circulation is not happening because we don't get that flush.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

And when that happens, I tell someone you're going to have longer delayed healing.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

And so they have to be prepared. That's gonna be three, four, five, seven days even, but it's gonna get better every time and it's going to be faster every time. When someone has quick flushing and no pinpoint bleeding, I'm like, you're gonna have easy peasy recovery, you're gonna get such a good glow. But also, if you do get pinpoint bleeding and you do get patekia underneath the surface, that's not a bad thing. That is repair, and that's important. A lot of times when you have scar tissue that can be from sun damage, doesn't mean acne, a lot of times sun damage creates scar tissue under the surface. That's why people get that leathery look. Yeah, or like their skin just seems like broken down. It doesn't seem supple and soft and voluntuous, you know? And so when it's like that, when you start to needle into it, you're ripping apart, you can almost feel the ripping of that scar tissue, and they're gonna get patikia, which is like little broken like blood under the surface of the skin. But that's a good thing because you're breaking those apart and now you're gonna help heal it and support the healing process. So they're going to repair into more supple collagen, and that's what you want. So in a series, every time you needle, they're gonna have less and less and less, and their skin's gonna become more youthful looking.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

I think that we need to accept the fact that microneedling requires downtime. Like 100%.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Anything you want to make change is going to have downtime.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

And I feel like it's like we want these things that are like instant results, like without having to like put in the work, and like we need to accept that like you will be read, like you will have the patikia, you will have the. That's exciting.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Get over it.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

If you don't, like you should be kind of bummed. I look right. Like, did I even do anything? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

What the fuck is about to happen?

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Yeah, and if you do do microneedling, and even if your skin's in a good place, if you don't have any downtime, they probably did like almost nothing, like a like a nano needling on you. And that is kind of a bummer because you probably paid full price for that.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

When I did say I had very little downtime, like my skin looked fantastic after the fact, but there was no flaking that some people have. I have some clients, my older clients, that get like a little swollen too from the microneedling. That's actually a really good sign that you're like the inflammation.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Inflammation is good in a way, like, yes, inflammation.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

The proper inflammation process that's happening to help with the healing. That is, oh my god, like that means your skin is actually really healthy. So all these things are absolutely amazing. We love the customization of microneedling, we love that it's literally for every single skin type. Like she said, rosacea, eczema, the skin types that you would think are a little bit more sensitive that wouldn't be able to handle it, can and actually really want to. We just love microneedling, and we're here to talk to you guys about that today.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

It does wonders. And for pigmentation specifically, especially on a shallow depth, it can do so much. Like I think that people always jump to peels, and I love appeal, but for pigment, like age spots, melasma, like microneedling is the number one thing you should be doing, getting you should be aiming for.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Absolutely. And so one thing, another type of microneedling that we said we would talk about a little bit is uh RF microneedling. So that's radio frequency, which creates like either a bipolar or monopolar frequency. So you have these gold tips, it's a larger device, like a gun almost that like it's painful, uh, it will like shoot these pins into your skin, and that heat is going to create that that rate from that radio frequency, which will then tighten the collagen fibers in the skin. So it is really for skin tightening. There has been a lot of flack about it, but it's also like a user error where it melts the fat pads on people's skin. So you have these women who are coming in trying to like prevent getting a facelift, right? So they're getting this RF microneedling treatment done for like the jowls and for like the saggingness around the eyes and the cheeks and whatever. And what ends up happening is the little fat pad that they had left, it's gone. And then now they have more sagging. So it's like you have to be very careful once again of who's the person that's gonna be doing this. Let me see their before and afters. Do they fucking know what they're doing?

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Do your due diligence, don't mess this one up. There are lots of different devices. I think with any treatment, the first device is not always the best device, and that's why Morpheus, I will say, has gotten a bad wrap because it is potent and strong, but it was the first of its kind. So now there are a lot of devices that are more targeted, more controlled, more able to reduce the heat and change the depth more and all those things that matter. And also going to someone who has thoroughly learned how to do this and has lots of studies and lots of their own research under their belt to make sure that they know what they're doing on every different type of skin, all over the body, because you want different things. Like for me, I would love some fat dissolving around my jaw area. Go ahead, burn that shit right off. Like what on the upper face, the around the eyes, the cheeks. You do not want that. So you need to know who you're going to and why and what they're gonna do with it.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

So, one last thing before we wrap it up. We just want to kind of talk about, I guess the last thing I wanted to say was microneedling is amazing. It is for everyone, except unfortunately, those lovely ladies that are pregnant and breastfeeding. Those are the only ones that are excluded.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Even though I don't agree, I get it. They just don't want you creating any trauma while you are growing a person.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

No, it's the lidocaine.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Oh, well, I mean no, well, I mean, they say that the doctor that I've talked to says that it's because you don't want to create trauma and take energy away from building a baby.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

That's the most bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Because you can microneedle without lidocaine.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Okay, hold on a second. Let's let's unpack that. That is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

You absolutely can. It's not very nice. That's not ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

But your doctor, what that doctor said is ridiculous. It was that the body clients doctor. You oh my god, what the fuck? Are you serious right now? That makes no the trauma of your face compared to your whole body, like the square footage of that, like takes up for your whole body. That's so minimal.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Are you said the healing of that? What did you say that that did you? How did you hold it left? I can't, I can't with people like that. I mean, I've heard all of the things, and typically I want to tell people if you have a doctor that says to you like you can't use any actives while pregnant, I want to say get a new doctor because they have not kept up with the science. And honestly, most of their advice has to do more with liability than facts. And so that's where I stand on that. I mean, I believe everything that we carry is pregnancy safe, but I'm not a doctor.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

But okay, so that's bullshit. I will not stand with that, that the body can't handle the trauma. Exactly. But no, it's it's you're not supposed to have lidocaine, tetracaine, or betacaine, which is usually in a typical BLT, which is a compounded numbing cream.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

But I do know a lot of practitioners that do not use numbing cream, and that's a whole nother topic.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Okay, you're you're missing my point. Can you stop?

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Yeah, no, I can't, because you can microneedle without numbing cream.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

You totally can microneedle without numbing cream.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

My old boss used to do it all the time.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Like, are you kidding me? People bitch. If they want microneedling. Oh my god. I have people still complain about how painful it is with numbing cream. So it's like you can microneedle without numbing cream. Let's probably.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

And especially if it is for pigmentation purposes, you really don't need to go above 0.75 millimeters.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Okay, but anyways, you can't have numbing cream when you are.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Yes, pregnant people cannot have numbing cream. She's being obnoxious. I I think I'm right. I think I think you can microneedle, you don't need numbing cream.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

You don't need numbing cream, but you're not gonna go 1.52 on your neck without numbing cream. You oh yeah, let's do that right now. Let's let's microneedle you right now, you guys. We don't have a let's have a lot.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

You can stay under one millimeter. Two millimeters on her neck. You can stay under one millimeter. You can stay under one millimeter and still get great results and still get benefits of brightening ingredients in the skin. I definitely think you can.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Have you microneedle people that are pregnant?

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Liability. Like I said, pliability.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

That's it. That's it. But you could point is no numbing cream while pregnant. That's basically.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

No numbing cream, no, there's like a list of like four things: no hydroquinone, no retinol, which I don't agree with. We're gonna talk about pregnancy safe stuff, no lidocaine and no TCA.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

You cannot be numbed while microneedling, but you can get micro-needled while pregnant. That is that is so.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

So if you're ballsy enough, call me.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

And then in to end with that one, uh you guys, thank you for listening to poor decisions. Have a good one. Bye guys. We really want to hear from you guys. So after you listen to the episode today, let us know your comments, questions, concerns.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

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