Staying Faithful When You Feel Like Quitting

In this episode, Ben sits down with Pastor Jeremy Dunn of Allison Gap First Church of God to discuss a reality many pastors face but few openly talk about—the desire to walk away from ministry. Jeremy shares his personal journey through discouragement, ministry fatigue, slow growth, leadership pressures, and the loneliness that can come when you begin to question whether you can keep going. 

Together, Ben and Jeremy explore the danger of measuring faithfulness by visible results, the emotional toll of ministry in difficult seasons, and the subtle ways burnout can take root in a pastor's life. Jeremy also shares how God used an unexpected season outside his church office to restore his soul, renew his love for Scripture, and remind him that ministry is sustained by intimacy with Christ, not endless activity. 

If you've ever felt exhausted, discouraged, isolated, or ready to quit, this conversation offers practical encouragement and a reminder that faithfulness is often forged in the hardest seasons of ministry.

Transcript

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Well, welcome to the Pastor on Point podcast, where real pastors talk about real ministry. I'm Ben Liston, your host, and I'm glad you've joined me today. And also joining me today is Pastor Jeremy Dunn, who pastors the Allison Gap First Church of God in Virginia. Jeremy, welcome to Pastor on Point. Thanks, Ben. Thanks for having me. We are here at the Truth Matters Conference, a Ministry of Pastors Fellowship. And I just want to mention, by way of introduction, we would love for you to join us next year at the Truth Matters Conference, May 3rd and 4th. And you can go to Truth Matters Online and register for next year's conference. We're looking forward to a great time there. But here we are at this year's conference. And I have an opportunity to sit down here with Jeremy. We are on location of the Winchester First Church of God in Winchester, Kentucky. So, Jeremy, if you could maybe first give us um kind of the 30,000-foot view of uh Jeremy Dunn and uh and maybe your call to ministry and a little bit of your upbringing and how you got to where you're at today. Sure. Uh I don't know if it'll be it probably won't be a 30,000-foot view, but I can give you a panoramic view. Okay, all right. Um I I grew up in the in the in the Church of God and my dad and my father, Bobby Dunn, actually uh preaching here at Pastors Fellowship Truth Matters Conference uh in the eight o'clock service. I'm excited about that. He he um was raised in in in in under his ministry and in his leadership. About the age of um 13 is when I uh first gave my heart to to Christ at a at a youth camp. And uh at the age of 16, I I felt my call to the ministry and and I I I I I bucked it um because it was that's my dad's job. You know. Uh so I I fought with it for a long time, um, but the Lord kept working on me. Um about the age of right before I graduated high school, age of 18, um, I finally said, okay, I can't fight this anymore. I'm gonna pursue ministry. Um, haven't turned back since. Um in in since I was 18. I've I've done a lot of different things in in ministry, kids' ministry, um, which was a uh a wild ride uh at times. Youth ministry, I lasted two years in youth ministry, but the last 16 uh I've been a senior pastor pastoring in two churches in uh Saltville, uh Virginia. Yeah. And how long have you been at Allison Camp? Um 20 since 2017. It's about eight years. Yeah. Just over eight years. Wonderful. Good deal. Well, today we're talking about um being faithful to the call uh when when you feel like quitting. Right. And uh I I mean uh not to be trivial, but you know, sometimes I think uh we think about quitting every Monday. But anyway. I have a resignation letter typed up ready to go. But it the reality is there are going to be seasons of ministry uh that um make you feel like you want to throw in the towel. Right. Uh that's a reality that we all deal with and uh some at different levels, but it is it is a common reality, although uh it's not talked about all that often. Right. Um at least out in the open. And so um we wouldn't have an honest conversation about that today. Um and I guess uh we can talk about just some common ongoing um pressures that pastors deal with and why they would want to just throw in the towel and quit. And um I guess one definitely would be a lack of uh fruit or results um in the in the local ministry that you're involved in. Um another one would be uh repeated conflict and or resistance to your leadership, that's definitely involved with that, or or just being spiritually and emotionally exhausted. And uh so uh I invited you to come on today uh to kind of speak personally to this uh situation. Uh feel like you want to quit. And uh so just kind of share where you're at, where you've come, what you've come through. And um, I I believe I believe what you have to share today will be a help. Well, I I started uh at at Allison Gap Church uh in in 2018. So we're talking pre pandemic. Oh yeah, right, right. Uh and and if we can remember back that far. Yeah. And man, it it feels so far away. Yeah. But um I and I I was transitioning from a very small country church, 20-some people, elderly. There was a wide gap of age between me and some of the other people in the con in the congregation uh there at Chatham Hill. Um I actually entered Chatham Hill Church in as a bruised pastor, um hurt from a previous pastorate, and and they healed me. Um but uh uh so I I I transitioned there, and and you know how coming in, most pastors know how coming into a new church, there's a grace period. Right, right. Uh there's a they call it a honeymoon stage. Yeah. And and so we get through the first year and and you know things are going well. We get to the second year and things are going well, and we're starting to pick up and get some momentum and starting to to to flourish a little bit, and and then pandemic. Yeah. You know, shuts us down. And and I told my congregation last uh uh yesterday when I was preaching that I regret some of the decisions that we that we made uh through through that through that process of you know shutting down and having to sit in front of a computer screen and spend an Easter Sunday in my in my kitchen at the table doing a live feed. And and I really regretted uh some of that. And so that was a a trying period. We get out of the pandemic, and we we never really catch that momentum back. Uh and it just it just takes a long time to uh to get things back in motion, and and we're going through a lot of different changes, and and you know, we lost some people, as I'm sure most every church loses some folks, right? Lost some folks during that. So it was hard to catch that momentum. Um and and and then uh coming through that uh I didn't deal with a lot of open conflict. Uh but there was some subtle murmuring that was happening. Oh, we don't like the changes that you're making. We don't like the you know, I never thought moving a service from 11 to 1030 would cost such a big big thing. And and but it again, it it wasn't, you know, my people are great, you know, they're not they're not confront, you know, type type of people. And so they they took it with grace, but I still heard some of that murmur. Um, and of course, you know, the church is was not growing, and and you know, we were slowly moving forward, and and with all of that, uh just came the the stress and the pressure. Did I make the right choices? Am I doing the right thing? And and so it was it was a compound uh a compound thing, just one right after, right after the other, yeah that just kind of digs at you and wears you down a little bit. So I dealt with a combination of all three of those things that you uh that you that you brought up. Yeah. And how long, I mean, how long did this season last for you as far as this experience of of thinking about or considering throwing in the towel? Well, that's interesting. It came in waves. Yeah. Uh we we'd have if you were if you were to to to able to to gauge my emotional and and spiritual uh ministry experience, it it probably looked like an EKG. It just there there were highs and and and then uh you know the devil would bring me back, he'd hit me with something and bring me back down, and and and and you know, we'd get back up and there's a high again and and back down, and so it it it came in in you know two, three weeks at a time. And then there'd be three or four months of okay, I I can still do this. And then there's another brick thrown at me. Yeah and three, four weeks, it it it started to extend. But really, the last year, the last five, six months, after my 40th birthday, that might have done it. You know, when you turned 40. Uh that might have done it. But after I turned 40, I just I took a hard look at where we were with the church, where where I have been, where I've come from in my ministry. I never doubted my calling. I I really truly believed that God called me to the ministry. But man, the compound of struggles and fruitlessness and really started making me question you know, whether or not I'm cut out for this for the long haul. Maybe I'm just a seasonal, you know, seasonal pastor, or maybe it's time, um I leave. Not just leave the church, right? But but leave the ministry and and and go on to something else. I for the last six months, uh, really well last year, right from from September through I'd say about January, February this year, I I really, I I really wrestle. Um and that's a lonely experience. Yeah. You know, you don't want to let your congregation know right what's going on because you're the leader. Right, right. Uh and you certainly don't want to bring that kind of stuff home. Right. You know, you kind of want to shield your family, uh, you know, family from that. So that it was it's been a it's been a rough couple months. Yeah. Um you you touched on something, and we've actually talked about this in a previous episode, but um the results you know of of the ministry, not just your ministry, but the ministry of the church. Um I as I have been doing some traveling and talking to pastors, I am finding that is a very common issue that that we're all dealing with is just I mean, there are times when uh you know, at my local church we've had four people saved in the last few weeks. Wonderful. Um and we'll and one has been baptized, we're baptizing three next Sunday. That's all wonderful. But then um then you'll go six weeks, and nobody will even budge when you give the altar call, right? I mean, and and that, you know, you go an extended amount of time, that really weighs on you. So it's this common every pastor deals with it. I don't care what context they're in. Yeah. Uh this lack of what they feel, the a lack of result. Yeah. Um but but that we can we definitely cannot measure our effectiveness um by results. Right. Um we are we are effective by being re by remaining faithful to what God has called us to do. Um but but you brought up that uh lack of fruitfulness, lack of result, that it must have weighed quite a bit on you. Oh, it did. It did. You know, and since this is an honest conversation, I I I would see, I actually hid on on my social media, I hid these posts from happening, but I would see, and I and I s and I'm glad they're showing them, but I would see uh Church of God Ministries post all of these um um baptisms that were happening around the country, and I celebrate those, but I couldn't help but ask the question why isn't it happening at my church? Yeah, yeah. You know, my baptism pool has been dry for so long. And and and I keep I keep wrestling with, you know, Paul says in Romans 12 to be transformed by the renewal of your mind. I think it's the New Living translation that says, change the way you think. And so we have to think differently about how we measure how we measure results. But that's a weird place to be in. Yeah. Because you want to celebrate, souls are being saved. Right. People are coming to Jesus, they're finding Christ, they're changing their lives, but at the same time, there's that little it's like the the angel and the devil on their shoulders that we see in cartoons. Why isn't it happening in your church? Yeah. And the immediate, the immediate place you go is well, there's something wrong with me. Right. Right. You know, uh it's it's just it's the the devil gets a foothold in your mind and and you know, you can say the right things and believe the right things and and and and see the the see what's happening. And you're thinking something's not connecting. Maybe I'm maybe I'm the problem. And I I think that's a that's just a sad reality of our I guess I would say how messed up our structure in American Christianity really is, is we we measure everything by visible, physical results. Right. That's how we measure everything. And I mean, when you're at some type of preacher's meeting, you know, more than likely you're gonna get the question two or three times, you know, how many are you running on Sunday? You know, because that's just how we've that's how we're wired. Yeah. But as Paul said, we gotta we gotta do some rewiring in our minds. Um I think of Jeremiah, I think of Noah. You know, Jeremiah preached 50 years. Right. And not one person, right, not one, you know, uh converted or got right with God. And then you think about um Noah, I mean, good night, 120 years. Yeah. He preached about this flood, and only the only folks that listened to what he had to say was his family. That was it. Yeah. And uh so it it it we I think we have to re-reshape in our minds how we uh count or measure results. Yeah. Uh and that's that's where the battle is it's it's it's mental. It's yeah, it's mental. Because the the result's not a building, it's not it's not numbers. The best result is that we as pastors and our congregations that we stay faithful to the truth. Yeah. But that's not popular. Right. That's not a popular measurement. Right. Um so all right, so now you're you're at this place, you're questioning, um, not necessarily your call, but just do I want to stick with this? Yeah. And um so I want you to kind of give us uh your testimony of how the Lord brought you out of that. And uh I because I think it was uh kind of rather unique how the Lord how He uh brought you through. You you have this season of of wanting to quit, and then well, just go ahead and share it with you. Yeah, well, um it is it is kind of interesting how how it all and and and I I I would say um I'm I'm not quite out of the that wilderness just yet, but I'm I'm seeing yeah, I'm seeing a light, I'm a lot more encouraged today than I was you know five, six months ago. Um but I I don't really think anyone really knew um how close I was. My wife didn't know. I think my mom kind of sensed, because my mom is a discerning woman, um she kind of sensed some things, but but I don't think anyone else really knew how close I was starting to come up with an exit strategy. Uh and and and and so I had been um I'd been working part-time at the local post office uh there in our in my town, and and um I'd been doing that for a number of years just just to get a little extra, you know, extra money, spending money. Yeah. No, no big thing. It was an hour out of my day. I I I tell people some people go to the gym at the end of their work day. I I went to the post office. It hasn't helped me physically. Um but that was kind of my compartmentalizing my day. It's it's this, you know, I'm done with my work here at the church, and and I went and did that. And um and and and as as the the months went on, you know, I got lost in the work. I got lost in preparation. And and I was spending all of this time in my office preparing. And unfortunately, what what began to happen is is I is any time I was reading the Bible, it was for the sake of preparing. Right. Right. You know, I was either preparing a sermon or preparing a Bible study or preparing some kind of lesson. Uh and and and I I just got I got I got lost in that. And it started to affect me not only mentally and emotionally and spiritually, it started to affect me relationally. I started to fellowship became a inconvenience. I I I did not want to fellowship. Uh and I and I and I and I and I rationalized in my mind that that you know I'm staying home with my kids and being a good father. Yeah, you know, I'm putting them ahead of, you know, but but fellowship became a became a struggle. The work became just a slog. Like I was running through sand with the wrong shoes. You know, and and and I knew in my mind, this was the strange thing, but uh I knew in my mind what was happening. I knew that these were uh road signs to burnout. I knew it was the tracks to catastrophe, but I couldn't find an out. I could not find, you know, that that thing that that got me out. And and um so I started developing this exit strategy. Uh and and I I I ended up back in here in um here in March, um, I started to I started a route. The guy I worked for work for with the post office, he he he um um his substitute drivers and he lets me you know work and and I he you know pretty much lets me work as much as I want. It's one of those situations where I only get paid if I work, so if I don't if I don't work, um I uh I don't get paid. Uh now in my mind I thought I was rationalizing again, this is yeah, I'm I'm making a little more money, I'm helping my family, I'm being a good husband, being a good father, providing for my family. That's that's what I told myself. But in reality, it was my exit strategy. Because if I leave the ministry, I have this to fall back on. Right, right. Um that's what I had planned. Now I didn't tell anyone that. Um and if my wife watches this podcast, pray for me. Uh but but that was my plan. And and so I started running this route three, four days a week. Um, start at seven o'clock, go to the post office, get everything organized. You know, by twelve o'clock, most of the time I'm I'm finished with the route. I got the rest of the day to uh to do whatever. And um at that point that moment I I started to realize I've got five hours. Four hours in a van, in a mail van. I'm not in my office. I'm not at my desk. And I'm a I Ben, I'm a classic workaholic. If I am at my desk in my office, I'm working on something. I'm not just, I can't sit and sit back and and and and read a book or drink coffee. I'm I'm focused, I'm working on something. And so here I am out of my office. I can't do that. I can't stop the route and work on a message. Right. Right. So I started just listening. I've got a Bible app, Dwell, I'm sure you're familiar. It's wonderful. I love it. That just reads the Bible to me. And so here I am listening to the Bible. Listening to it read to me. With no pretext. With no pretense. Right. Because I can't I can't stop and do a devotion. So I'm I'm I'm listening to the word read to me. And it's it's wild to me that that what what I had planned as my exit strategy, God has used as the means of restoring me and revitalizing me. And now I I look forward to that time that I have in that mail van because it's just it's just me and God. It's just me and the Word. It's just me and worship. You know, I'll I'll play songs, worship songs, and the fascinating thing about that is people on my route, they hear the Bible being read if they're out by their mailbox. You know, I'm talking to people. I'm I've had opportunities to pray with people. So I'm doing ministry in a totally different way. Yeah. And and and man, it it has been and I get paid to do it. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's sumizing on that. I don't want it to be about money, but yeah, but you know, it's just it's interesting how God has taken that and taken my intentions. You know, I'm gonna use this to leave. Yeah, absolutely. And he says, no, I'm gonna use this to keep you in the fight. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's it's just been a tremendous uh life, life-altering uh experience. Not out of the woods yet, but man, I'm I'm I'm a lot closer. Yeah. A lot closer than I was. That's man, that's a that's a wonderful testimony. I I think it's important that when we get to the point when we're planning the exit strategy that um we don't allow, we don't make quick decisions. It's so easy, well, like you like we were joking about earlier, it's so easy to quit every or want to quit every Monday or every other Monday because uh something didn't happen quite like we thought it would on the Sunday before. Um it it's and it's it's easy to to overreact to uh, I don't know, uh, conflict or um whatever it might be. It's easy to react to the moment and just say, I give up, I quit. Um now it sounds like you took some a little bit of time in your str in your strategy, and and obviously God God said, Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna fix him in while he's planning his way out. So um and that and that really that that has to encourage you. Yeah. Um because there are times when you've when you feel like, God, are you even are you even still in this? Yeah. Um but the fact that he would be gracious enough to let you think through and process possibly exiting, but in that process, he uses it to to sure you up uh and to build you up. Yeah, and and and also to that, um it has it has provided some you know financial security. Yeah, you know, from not not that we were we were hurting or you know, the church has been very good to us. Um you know, but but it it it definitely has provided some financial security that that that you know now we're not flippant people and just spin, spin, spin. Right, right. You know, but but you know, we don't have that worry, you know, I don't have that concern um as much as I used to. So that that's been a great benefit. Sure. Uh could you could you maybe uh speak to uh the pastor that's listening right now, who is where you were six months ago. What are some practical things that maybe we haven't talked about, or that maybe we have, but some practical things you could tell them right now that they could do in this moment? I mean, they're ready to Well, this is Monday, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, they've already gotten out their resignation letter. Yeah. It is they're listening to this right now, and their resignation letter is sitting on their desk ready to go to the chair of the board. Yeah. What yeah. What would you say to them? Uh the first thing I would say is don't quit. Yeah. Um faithfulness is is measured in the hard times. Um stay faithful. But you gotta find you gotta find um an avenue, not not an exit strategy, right? An avenue of restoration. Um where it's just you and God. You're not you're not so busy in the work of the ministry. You're you're being in the presence of God. You're allowing God's word to to pour over you, you're allowing his spirit to to to fill you up. Because that's where we get, that's where we get our strength. Sure, absolutely. You know, none of us could do this without the Holy Spirit, but we've got to take that time. And and it took for me another job to because uh because again, I'm a I'm a workaholic. It took again uh me another job uh to get me out of that office and to get me out of that place. Um and and and so I I would encourage uh I would encourage you, pastors, if you're there, if if that's where you are, um if you're feeling those feelings, if if if fellowship is becoming an inconvenience, if if a if if your preaching and preparation is becoming a slog, uh stop, slow down, get out, and spend some time in the presence of God. Spend some time in in the and and when I say time, I'm not talking 30 minutes, you know, an hour. I'm I'm talking hours a day. Just listening to the word of God. No, no, no expectation, just just letting it uh you know, letting it fill you, letting it flow over you. Um, and and my goodness, talk to somebody. Yeah. I wish, you know, there there were people, there's people in my life that that I could have pastors in my life I could have reached out to. Yeah, I think one of the enemy's greatest strategies is isolation. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And uh there there is uh, Pastor, if you're listening right now and you're you're wanting to quit, there has got to be somebody in your life. Yes, uh mama, daddy, a mentor, there's somebody you can talk to honestly about you seriously thinking about quitting. Um don't, yeah, don't uh don't underestimate. Um there's somebody now the enemy's telling you, oh, there's nobody you can talk to. You just need to quit. Uh don't believe that lie. There's someone in your life that you can be honest with and open with about what you're what you're dealing with. Uh well, I want to thank you for joining us today on this episode, and I want to thank Jeremy for sharing um his testimony. And uh and and I also want the audience to understand this. Um, Jeremy uh admitting himself that he is not fully out of this season. And I I want you to understand, as a listener, we're not interviewing experts. That's not the goal here. The goal is practical help, practical wisdom, lessons learned, or like Jeremy, one who's learning the lesson. Um, and uh so I hope that encourages you today. And I want to thank you, Jeremy, for being honest and open with us and joining us here on Pastor on Point, where real pastors talk about real ministry.