Praying to the Lottery Gods

Bryson Akins and Henry Brown discuss the 2025-26 season and the offseason plan, as it seems the main focus is to get as lucky as possible.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to All Wizards Talk Podcast on the All Sports Talk Network. I'm one of your co-hosts, Bryson Akins, joined alongside, as always, by Henry J. Brown. Ladies and gentlemen, sorry for the short hiatus. We had some, I guess we'll say technical difficulties behind the scene that was going on before we could uh record this one. But all is resolved. We're good. We're back for you guys for this weekly content that we're gonna provide covering this. Just in time for the season to end, too. Just in time for the season to end. It was not because we needed a break because of how bad this team was. No, not that was not the case whatsoever. Although it was nice to get a little break talking about this team.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Which is funny because we're gonna say this right before in 20 minutes, we're gonna make the case why the season was a success in some facets.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Exactly. Exactly. But thank you guys for sticking with us. And the the first thing that we really just want to talk about is the season itself. Because it was long, it was hard, it was strenuous, it was I don't even know what that word means. You don't know what strenuous means? It means hard and long. You already said it. Oh, so it fit in. Perfect. Perfect. Alright, and so I just it it was I think it was just a difficult season to kind of keep up with. Let's be honest.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

I mean, the tanking was it hit a point that it hadn't hit at this in in the city over this rebuild, where the post-all-star break wizards were about as unabashed about what they were doing as any Wizards team in the past. Like, at least before, like all the veterans would like get slowly eased out of the rotation. This time, Trey Young and AD combined for five games. Um, the young guys, you were losing more and more with each one. Um, more responsibilities were going to the two-way guys towards the end of the season than we'd ever seen before. So I understand it. This season was different. Um, there was even more beneficent losing as well, in the sense that, you know, this season was all about the draft pick. When we're talking about whether or not the season was a success, it was did you bring the draft pick back home from New York? Did you secure a bottom four record? Or, you know, sorry, additionally, did you maximize that draft pick by getting the worst record and making sure you can fall no further than five? And the Wizards did both of those. And even though those aren't fun to root for, um, that's what the season was about. This season's about the rebuild, and what good is the rebuild if you have no draft pick to, you know, pay it off with? So it wasn't really fun to root for, but there was a reason.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Yeah. If if you kept up with the team, you were a fan, you knew what was going on, you may have been upset with the losing, but you understood why it needed to happen.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Yeah, the losing like stunk, but and and of course there was always always we're just quibbling over saying there was a better way to lose. But yeah, like there's it's it's no competitor is gonna be okay long term with losing. It's just gonna sort of break at you after a while.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Look, and people can can argue, oh my goodness, like it's the way that we're losing. I don't care. A loss still goes down as a loss in the record book. It it does not matter. There's no there's no moral wins here.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Like the teams who got though!

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah, and it's what's ethical basketball. Basketball doesn't care about ethics, they don't.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

They don't basketball gods might, but uh the lottery ones are a different breed. They really the lottery gods are sick, and I don't know how to please them. There's no use even trying.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

There's there's no use of trying. You might as well just bring all the lucky items you can a rabbit's foot, four-leaf clover, pot of gold, horseshoe.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

I'll be fascinated to see who the wizards send as their draft representative because I wonder if Bub was just banned after getting six last year.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

I joked around and I was like, you know what, why not break tradition, just send the whole team? Oh send the whole team, all of them standing up there. I mean, please, Adam Silver, save us, please.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

You know who the popular fan pick is right now. John Wall. Yeah, that would be really something.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Which I wouldn't mind.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

I no, it's the last time they won the whole dang thing.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Yeah, I wouldn't mind if they did that. Um, maybe some John Wall. I would I wouldn't mind that. You know me personally, send Martian Gortat up there.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

The Polish hammer. Oh my goodness. He was who I modeled my game after.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Get a Gortat or a Wall jersey next. I know. He was the guy I modeled my game after in high school. Gortat?

unknown 4:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

How's your screening game? Oh, it was phenomenal. Because you gotta remember, I was a tight end in football, so I was like, I got the big body and frame. I might as well just set screens all the time. Did you master the famous Gortat screen? Uh I did. I was setting some hard screens. I mastered the pick and roll. I was not a shooter by any means. Not a shooter. I think I made three threes throughout my entire high school career, and I took like 11. Over four years. It's not bad. Over four years, not bad, not bad. It was it was a lot of you know mid-range postwork. That's what a lot of my game was. And so that's why I say I modeled after Gore Tot where I could set some screens, and I was I was a decent passer for a big man as well. Yeah, nice. You know, short roll action. Yeah, dude, I averaged 12-10 in three my senior year, and the 12 was not for points. That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Wait, so so 12 boards, 10 points. 10 points. I averaged more boards in the box. Three fouls.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Uh assist. Got it.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

So I was. Three assists isn't bad. Get back on topic here. I wouldn't mind if we got boat up there. Just a personal favorite of mine. Um, who else would be a good one to send? Oh man. What's autoporter up to? What's autoporter junior up to?

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Oh, and join retirement. Will Riley would be an interesting one. You know, a nice little surprise of this class. I wouldn't mind that.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

I wouldn't mind sending someone from Trey Young to the class. Ooh. Sign of fresh life. A sign of change. I like that. I like you know what? I'm fine with that one, Trey Young. I think that's a decision.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Do you want to talk season and review, or do you want to talk uh the Dawkins press from a few days ago first?

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Let's talk season and review. I want to know what really stood out from you this season, and we understand it was a lot of losing. We understand that, alright? What stood out from you this season specifically from the team?

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Wow. Um I think the biggest thing that I tried to get a handle on this season, and you know this, I was I was like a dog chasing its tail for a while. I was really just trying to get a feel of where Brian Keefe stands in-house. Because I think anyone who's followed a team knew that they weren't gonna make the rash move of just when Dawkins a few days ago verified that he was like, Yes, I do expect Brian Keefe to be back this year. Um, that wasn't a shock. No. Because they've just sort of avoided the impulsive move. Because even the moves that looked impulsive, like you know, the Trey Younger AD trades, even those moves, they're those were methodical meaningful draft capital. And it's still clear, low-risk, high reward trades. Um, so I don't know, they've they've never done anything super risky or impulsive, so I wasn't shocked by that. But I I have been trying to get a feel of how how Keith is just not as a developer, because everyone talks about how good he is as a developer, but how he is as an actual coach. Yeah. And I I talked to Anthony Gill at length about this. I talked to a few guys uh at postseason Media Day about this, and everyone just kept talking about how good of a guy he is, how good of a developer he is. But then I asked Will Dawkins a few days ago, so I guess I'm combining the two topics today. Uh I asked Will Dawkins, and he gave me so many numbers. He was so prepared with like a million stats just about how he is also growing with the team. Well, you know, you know he was a journalism major. You know that he was no, he was very ready. He showed it.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

I love that about him.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Yeah, no, he g he gives really good answers, and uh it goes a long way because sometimes, you know, I I like someone to give me a stat. You know, sometimes we're the ones looking up all the stats. How about how about we get one every once in a while, so that was nice. And he pointed out how he has helped the team grow in all the different ways they've talked about before the season. Um, crashing the boards, offensive boards. Uh, they're at the rim more, their threes are going up more and at a higher clip. And there's these small improvements that you don't notice just because they lost one more game than they did last year, went from 18 to 17. But there are really small changes happening. The young guys are becoming more comfortable as like the focal points of the lineups, even though that won't be something that happens all the time. Like Bilal Koulibaly won't be the go-to guy that frequently, but towards the end of the season, he showed number one option at the end of the day. I'm seeing just taking on more shots. There's more comfortability all around. Um, the G League is doing its thing, the players are getting more prepped, they're coming up looking ready. Will Riley was inevitable.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Get comfortable being uncomfortable, basically.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Yeah. So I thought that's my favorite quote.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

That's that's hey, that's actually my favorite quote.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Yeah, no, that's a great LeBron clip and then applied here because you can make a case that all the young guys um took big strides this season. And I take that as uh a win for them. There's six guys they've drafted on this team from the first round over the course of this rebuild. Uh, eight in total, if you include the two uh second round guys, uh a few other guys who were drafted around that range who they traded for. And I think, again, you can make the case that this is a win for everyone all around, individually at least. I was making a LeBron reference there, by the way, and I think you missed that.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

I'm gonna catch your LeBron reference you make. All right, all right. Thank thank God, thank God. Thank thank the Lord. But no, I think the the Keefe decision, it is something where it's like some some fans are upset, and I get why you're upset because it's like, oh my goodness, he hasn't done anything for winning basketball yet. And I made the point, Mark Dagnall was 46 and 108 in his first two seasons. And Thunder fans, when he got extended, were like, why? It's like I'm not saying they are the same coach. I'm not saying this. I'm just saying it's a similar situation where it's like, look, he was here purposely, like the front office told him was like, look, we gotta lose. We need these draft picks that we want the rebuild to be successful, so we we have to lose these games. And it's like you don't have a winning team or lineup out. They're like, this is no shade to the team whatsoever. But when you were throwing out Leakey Black and Anthony Gill in the starting lineups to end the season, what do you expect to happen? That's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

It's so hard to gauge the job you did. And forgive me, I'm I'm definitely repeating some of the stuff I said on uh Greg Finnberg's The Wizards podcast. But uh I think no one really knows how to how to deal with with the Keith thing. Just because Greg pointed out, uh, you know, Keith wasn't immune to the occasional coaching gaff. Like sometimes he'd like forget to call a timeout or he'd call for something strange at the end of a game, and the fans would be like, what the hell was that? But I mean, every coach does that. Every coach makes mistakes. Coaches have to be a company man. And Keith wouldn't have sat through three years of this, or two and a half years of this, I should say, um, just so he would get, you know, dumped right when it's time to play some serious ball. So he's got one more chance, and I think he deserves it. The players all really like him, and I think the front office is prioritizing continuity. He's already built these relationships, he has clearly established um a strong presence with his coaching staff in the G-League and up. They're all in the same uh scheme. Everyone knows what they're doing. They've you know bought into roles after a while. They've learned how to just, you know, deal with the NBA. They're just getting, you know, they're just playing as soon as they're drafted. And not a whole lot of teams, you know, will give that. And I don't know. I I think I think you know, he's he's gotten them here, might as well, you know, help him through the next phase of the transition.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

And look, it's not like the coaching class that you had coming in either that were available is great by any means. All right. No, it's part of why I think they're having that many firings. It's like it's not that great, anyways. I mean, your best option is Taylor Jenkins. And I'm not saying Taylor Jenkins is a bad coach. I think he's a good coach, but the thing is, do you really want to bring in someone this fresh when, like Will said during his presser, which we'll talk about soon, where he was like, the train hasn't left the station yet, but we're getting ready to leave. Like we're starting to leave a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Yeah, Jenkins is good, but he's not the kind of guy you like rock the boat for. Like we already have a decent system and decent continuity.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Is he a championship coach? I don't think so. But you like who? Jenkins or Keith?

SPEAKER_01 12:10

I don't know. I like Jenkins.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

I I like Jenkins. You never know.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

It's just it's not a it's not a known thing. I get it.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Yeah, like it's not a known thing where it's like, sure, they could have been, you know, maybe a little bit better overall, but it's like, are you gonna see that much of a difference with Jenkins and Keefe next season? Probably not. Not really. No. The season's about the transition from the rebuild to the build. Now, if a better coach, like let's say an Ime Odoka becomes available.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

I don't even know. Like, I think Keith can give a lot of the same things Imei can, and I don't know. Like, I don't trust Imei Odoka's uh offensive prep. Okay. I definitely don't trust his I guess like personality because he's I get what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

I get what you mean. No, I I get it. I see where you're coming from. But like that's the point where it's like you don't really have a lot of great options to come in and just be like you're right about that. You don't. So it makes sense to bring back Keith, especially when it's like, hey, look, we're like we're not telling you just straight up like try to lose these games now. Go out there and try to win as many as you can because A, frankly, we don't have protections on the draft pick anymore. So wherever we land, we land. If that's in the play-in, that's in the play in. If we're in the playoffs, great, fantastic. We're a little just a little bit ahead of schedule then. That means we're developing really well. Yeah. And so it's just one of those things where it's like, it doesn't really matter because they're like, look, next season is not a contending year. It's it's not. Next season is a competing year where it's like, we just want to be in more games. That's a good differentiation to make. It's like the same thing. I feel and I feel like too many people are thinking that's what it's supposed to be after a three-year rebuild where after year three you are contending. That's not the case whatsoever. Just make a jump. Show the clear jump, win 30 games, and fans are gonna be happy because it shows, oh my goodness, they've improved. Yeah, and 30 games puts you in the top 20 in the league.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah, and even 30, like they can do higher than 30. Like, it but you're right, even that would be like doubling basically the count they have right now.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Exactly. It's I I just think it's one of those things where people look at it's like, oh come on now. Like, we we expect to be top of the East already. When that's just not gonna be the case.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Everything they do is preaching patience, and this is about baby steps. Um, that's everything we've heard so far is there's no there's no real rush. At every point, the the front office management has said, you know, the deconstruction phase may be over, but that doesn't mean that they're done taking their punches.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

No, like the deconstruction phase is over, they're not just gonna be, you know, letting teams walk all over them like we saw this season and the last two, where it's like we just gotta try to get as high as a pick as possible because the number one guy could do a lot of stuff for us, especially this year. If you're just top three, that does wonders for your team. Does wonders. Just having a lottery pick also is amazing, and they just wanted to secure, they kept it, and they did. Lois they can fall as fifth now. But I just think there are a lot of people that just aren't really keeping up with the team and what the plan is. And part of it is I saw this one article someone posted, and I from consistency I could find, a lot of people do not like him. Uh Thom Livero.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

I know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Yeah, yeah. Where he was like, uh, real jokes on fans for putting up with Withering Wizards when when Dawkins and Wigan came in, everyone knew, oh, they're stripping it from the ground. Like they're doing a real rebuild. It was no. I'll still take this over uh the West Unselled Junior era. I'll take I'll take this over being a play-in team that is winning 30 games every year and is either the 18th play-in or you know, miss the playoffs and they get the 14th pick in the draft. I'd I'd rather do that than be the Chicago Bulls.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yeah, and the Wizards of like the lat of like five years ago with like BLM porzing Kuzma, they didn't even make the play-in.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

No. Like it's it's one of those things where like I feel like some people like I it almost felt like this dude expected them to make the playoffs this year from how they were talking. When like if you knew going into the season, like if you knew about this team going in the season, you knew, oh, they might win 20 games. Maybe that's it.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Yeah, I just think no one really knows how to deal with uh AD and Trey being there because the team is theoretically, you know, deep, but there's just zero encore evidence of that just because they haven't played and just no one really knows how to deal with that.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

I think a lot of it is some people just look at it as a player situation. It's like, oh, that if you trade for someone, it means you really want them long term. And this one we can go ahead into the press conference a little bit because Trey Young, that was the case. You you were there. Will Dawkins said so, where it's like, if Trey was still in Atlanta and opted out of his player option, he was our number one priority in free agency.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

I was really curious when I was sitting there because I was really thinking, like, I wonder how long he had some of these trades in the works because the Trey Young trade, there were like two or three days before where we were starting to get like Mark Stein reported that there was like rumblings about a Trey Young trade and the Wizards are like one of the teams that make the most sense. Um the AD trade came out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

That no one knew about it. I really wondered how long no one knew about it. But if you look at how like his like A D, everything about him as a player down to his contract as well, it makes sense for why they traded him.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Yeah, and it sounds like Dawkins read the situation and said, we need these archetypes. We need a point guard, someone who can actually get everyone else easy shots, and just you know, an experienced, defensive-minded big who can just sort of help out in much of it.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Trey Young's about to enter his prime. It's not like Trey Young is also 33 years old. He's 27.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

That would be really cool if Trey Young had like because he's had a few seasons that, you know, haven't been quite as good as the first couple were. And then some of that is injuries and the hosts just not being able to build around him. Um that's that's definitely part of it. I think he also sort of fell worse into some of his like worst habits. Like the usage numbers got sort of crazy. Um the other teams sort of knew that, you know, he was just down to shoot so many shots. And I think he sort of, from my understanding, was he sort of taking the DC move as a second chance. You know, he showed up here, he wore all the jerseys, he was just showing, I am a leader, I am willing to be the face of this new operation. And I don't know, we saw it and he didn't play many games, but he was willing to do a little bit more off-ball on offense. Uh, he certainly committed, we're gonna have to see if it works. But he said um on Monday that he's just, you know, it's a it's a defense first team, and he's willing to just not be like the clear weak link on that in front. Those are his words. Yeah. I don't know. He's he seems to be using this as a chance at redemption.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

And I'll want to talk about the defense in just a second, but just on the AD move, I feel like a lot of people still view it as, oh, he's getting an extension. No, I don't I don't think you're gonna see him get an extension unless it's for like 30 million a year.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

It's hard to say. He seems really I actually sort of admire him. He's he's been extremely consistent about all of his intentions. He said the same thing on Draymond's show last week. He said to us a few days ago, and he said the same thing to ABC News yesterday, that he is just really set on communicating with the front office, finding out what their intentions are, how they plan on reaching that competitive stage, as you said, and their timeline for you know getting him another chance at winning something. He said that to everyone. He's not trying to rush into anything, and he's got one more year before it's gonna be a real question of like, is this guy gonna get extended or traded?

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Well, think about it, he's 33 years old. How many years does he have left in the league with how his body is held up? Yeah, he's not the most durable guy.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Uh he's entering season 15 next year.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Like that's just my point where it's like, what, he has three to four seasons left?

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yeah, probably. It would be really incredible if he played like 20 different seasons. I guess the idea is that the wizards are deep enough, there's gonna be like less of attacks on his body. But yeah, you're definitely right. That's the main concern is every Wizards fan is saying, you know, picturing healthy ID in their plans, and every other fan base who's dealt with him before is saying just you know, temporary exercise.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Prepared for like 40 games. But I like next season, I would gladly take AD for 40 games, win 30 of those, that shows good improvement, good signs. And I think with you, you could win 30 out of 40 games with a healthy AD. I think you could.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's definitely possible depending on the matchups, but yeah, like we haven't we haven't seen it yet. But the idea of AD and SAR as these interchangeable fives who can clearly protecting centers in the league. Big men in the league. Yeah, I mean, they're two of the best, like, guys that recover into the perimeter using their feet on switches. You can definitely see the blueprint, just no one's seen it yet on on the court.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yeah, it's it's definitely interesting to think about. And my final thing on the AD thing is like I said, a lot of people view it as like, oh my goodness, they're building around 80 and Trey, they've ruined the rebuild, they wanted to get out of it. Ted forced them to do this move. No, like we mentioned you know, Dawkins mentioned it, how they viewed off the offseason. They're like, we're gonna have around 80 million in cap space that we have to fill up. If you looked at that free agent class, who were you going to pay to make that 80 million with two open roster spots?

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yeah, when I think of the money, I'm thinking about the Trey Young extension, in which case he'll probably waive his uh his player option. He'll probably waive the Bilal extension.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Well, the thing with Bilal, I don't think he's gonna get much. I think you're gonna see around a$15 million extension. For four years, you think?

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yeah. That would make sense, but even that, that's just gonna I that can't be the kind of move that we just forget about. We're like, oh yeah, at the end, you know, and the bal extension. Like that has to be like one of like the main spectrum.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

You have to keep that in mind because Bilal is your best perimeter defender. You want him on the team.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Yeah, and you gotta picture Trey Young will make like at least like probably 30 mil.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

I'm thinking, I'm thinking it's gonna be in the 35, 40 mil range. 35 plus there for Trey.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

You're at like 50 something now.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Yeah. And that's what before whatever else. Yeah, but that's not for next season. It's you know, they still have a season to worry about that. And the thing with that one is you're still gonna have cap space freed up because even if Balal signs that extension for 15 mil, he's now the third highest played pick. Player on the team. Yeah, because everyone else is still on the rookie deals. Yeah. Alex Star right now is the third highest paid player, and he's making 12 mil a year. Like that's that that shows you what this team was really at, what they were doing with where, like, man, because of how young they are, they need to find these contracts put together. And like I mentioned, free agency, you didn't really have those options that were worth combining two players for 80 mil for.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

No one who's worth keeping makes it a free agency, really, unless they just completely worn out their welcome with their old.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Like Austin Reeves, like he like, even if he makes it a free agency, what were the odds the Wizards were gonna sign him? There's other places he can go.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

There's other places he can have no problem finding suitors.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Yeah. Um Peyton Watson, restricted free agent. I'm sure the Nuggets would like to try to keep him, even though they might not have the money to, but shoot.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Yeah, I'm gonna be in Tricia.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Same with Walker Kessler. Like it's you had these players that were interesting in theory to have, but were you really gonna spend 80 mil between two players in free agency? Probably not with this class.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

No, that's how that's how bad Team Sync rebuilds. Uh let me ask you. You you tuned into the uh the press conferences. I did. What stuck out to you?

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Uh the big thing was uh, well, really two big things. I briefly mentioned about how Trey Young, it was almost destined he was gonna be a Washington Wizard from how Will was talking about it. And we know they have a relationship all the way back to Trey Young's days in high school at Norman North when Dawkins was there watching OU games, his wife is from OU. And naturally, um, there was buzz around that city where it's like if the Thunder do have a lottery pick, they want to try to get Trey Young because it just made sense. Because at the time they needed a point guard because they were trading Russ. And then they were about to be enter this phase of like, look, like we need to break it down and restart. And so it made sense for them to do that. And so that was really interesting because they already had that relationship. Trey knows what kind of person Will is, Will knows what kind of person Trey is. Uh, Trey is an amazing person off the court, yeah. Like, just being honest, from you know, going to his game, seeing him, you know, like almost growing, I don't want to say growing up with him, but like being around the same age, same time he was here, you could see how much of a good person he was. And part of that is because of his family. Um, I've met Ray before, his dad, phenomenal person as well, just phenomenal group of um, just phenomenally, phenomenal family group right there. Like the young's are amazing, they're fantastic, uh, along with Will. The second thing that really stood out to me was the fact that they want to be a defensive focused team, which then brought into my mind it was like, well, let's say D of course, I feel like we know D Lo's gonna, you know, decline his player option. I I feel like we know this, right? Yeah, I mean, he didn't, yeah. I mean, yeah, we don't have to linger on this. And then Anthony Gill, there's the question mark of do you bring him back? Or do you're like, look, like we gotta actually, you know, do something with a spot here. That's the biggest question.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

See, this is where like we were talking about, you know, how successful was the season. A lot of people on the outside talked about, you know, there's real questions about the losing habits that you're putting into a team, about just not, you know, I guess incentivizing nightly competition. And, you know, a lot of Wizards fans would rightfully counter with like, well, you know, one more transformative draft pick and you know, healthy stars probably changes the game a bit. But there is a point you made about how quickly the defense can become something that's actually like feasible from what it's been. Because that's that goes beyond just inserting Alex Star, or sorry, inserting Anthony Davis and just having Star play off of him because you need all of these primitive defenders who a lot of them have good upside athletically or or you know physically to just keep their assignments, but a lot of them didn't. And you'd like to see a lot more focus and a lot more discipline on that front, and that's the kind of thing that's gonna just take a really devoted offseason of everyone just being willing together to take that jump into the next phase of whatever this is, because I don't think one player is gonna change their fate right now. They bailed out opposing shooters too many times. Um, they let themselves get walked over way too frequently, and that's where I want to see. And Keith talked all season about how he wants his offense to be built based on his defense. He wants to be defense first, he has a defensive background, but fans, I don't think, saw much evidence of that. And this is where I think we're gonna be looking the most to see how Keith is as a coach, not just on his X's and O's, but how he's willing to motivate his players to play his kind of way.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Yeah, well, I'm looking at two fronts with that is how Keith, like you mentioned, how Keith is with his Xs and O's. Um, they might also try to bring in someone else on the um a coaching staff as an assistant coach because just with how the go-go did this year, I'd expect some teams to be looking at that you know assistant coaching staff to kind of bring onto theirs. Because the go-go did extremely well.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

The the go-go looked great, and of course, that staff down there is Keith staff, it's all the same coaching staff. Um, so I'd be interested to see if they bring in anyone new as you know an assistant coach to help out with defense. That's something I'd be looking at. The second thing is that's why I mentioned Anthony Gill, they don't bring him back, all of a sudden they have an open roster spot. That leads you to have room to come in and sign someone that is defensive focus, that's really gonna try to help change the identity of this team on defense. And there are good, there could be some decent options out there. Yeah, you it's two open roster spots, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Because assuming D Lo goes to the wind.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Well, that would then go to whoever the first round draft pick is.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Oh, yeah, I forgot.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Yeah, you're right. Yeah. And so only you know, there could only be uh potentially one open roster spot, which would be interesting to look at. And like I said, it's all dependent if the team brings back Anthony Gill or not. Yeah, or if a trade happens. Or if a trade does happen, which I just don't know who would you trade on this team to free up the game?

SPEAKER_01 27:47

I mean, the guys that some fans are looking at is there's some of like the fringe young guys, like Hardy. Like Hardy's yeah, uh Kent Wimbers in a weird spot. Um I don't think they're gonna trade Cam just because of what he went through this season. Just being honest, it would be really good. But it's the kind of thing that like sports are a business, and I just have to keep it in mind it's a theoretical technical possibility.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Yeah, it's a theoretical technical possibility. Let's say one open roster spot. There could be some good names out there that are going to be able that you'll be able to sign because of the money. Um, but just you need someone that has a defensive mindset that's gonna help out with this team, and it's just really, really interesting to kind of look at. And so I'm looking at some of these names, and one big one that I, you know, just personally look at because he just personally I've always loved him, and you see it in the background. I love Lou Dort. I'll never say anything ill about him, but OKC could decline his team option, and then he's a free agent. That would not be a bad idea to bring in.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Yeah, I I made I made like crack drill in the season that like I wanted Dylan Brooks, but at least Dort is like the cheap man's version of that where he wouldn't cost as many shot attempts and he could.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

He's just he's just a three-point shooter, he's not driving in, and he's a good three-point shooter.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

He shoots like 38% from three. I I think he's sort of streaky, but I don't really care about his shooting. It's like you know, hit some every now and then. We don't really care, we're not trying to win a title. Yeah, and I don't know, like he would install some defensive professionalism. I don't think he's like a defensive player of the year candidate like some other people do, but I don't think he is anymore. I I think his point of attack defense would be really valuable because I think the Wizards could use some burly presence out there, someone who's just unwilling to let their assignment get past them. And I don't know, he's not the most fluid defender, but that's that's an asset that the team could really use. A strong professional out there, sort of like Marcus Smart was last year.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Yeah. I've seen some people mention, oh, bring Arcus Smart back as the backup point guard with his defensive mindset. I don't think he's gonna come back to DC. He probably won't want to, but that's not a bad idea. I like that kind of thing. It's not a bad idea. I get where people are coming from, but I just don't think, like being realistic here, that's not gonna happen. You just gotta get someone in that's defensive-minded, that's gonna change that kind of culture part of that team. And I say, like, I'm gonna mention OKC guys, but that's just because they have some guys that they're gonna have to decide what they do for team options that will also be cheap contracts. Kenrich Williams, he's a junkyard dog who is really focused on his defense, who is probably gonna cost you five mil a year.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Again, I like the idea just because there's someone who you can phase in and out of lineups won't demand a ton of starts or touches. I get it.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Like it makes sense. I'm trying to look at some other names.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Maybe Mitch Robb, maybe. Uh, we talked about this at some of the uh on-site reporters talked about this. I don't like this idea because this is one of my main things about the offseason, and I text this to you that I think they'd be better interested finding like a really big power forward who could like play the occasional spot center minute because I think almost every center minute of any value is going to be allocated to one of SAR or AD. And I just don't think I think Mitchell Robinson's too good for that kind of role. Like he's he's too good to be some rotation guy. Like Mitchell Robinson is a starter on almost every team, he's a six-man of the year candidate. I I think that he deserves something bigger than well.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

I have this idea for those same reasons that you're listing, John Collins. And that makes sense. I'm with this idea. Because he is a four that can shoot the three-ball well. He's a good defender, he's got the length, size, and athleticism. He can help out off the bench, really. And part of it is he would also put pressure on guys like Fuch to kind of improve defensively where he's there and let because right now your backup center to SAR and AD is Vuksevich. That's your backup center, and if you take one in the second round on a two-way contract. Or Reese. Like that's what we're talking about here. And I think most of the wings That's if they bring him back on a two-way because they have they have a few two-way decisions they have to make.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

You're right. Yeah, that's still that's still, I think we're just assuming just because it would be an easy choice to make. But again, you're right. It has the choice has been made. Um, and most of the wings in the wizards are more of like the guard variety, like, you know, Balal is like sort of guard, sort of, sort of forward. Keyshawn's a forward, but like Riley sort of guard, sort of forward. And at least John Collins is like a pure big forward, like a big who can like, you know, be multipositional, and that's valuable.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Yeah. Um, potentially Isaiah Hartenstein, but I see them picking up his team option and declining Lou and Kenrich's. That would make sense.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

And again, you I feel like this this isn't a big enough spot for Hartenstein.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

No, I don't think I and like just because I'm not like I'm not trying to say like, oh, be respectful to them, but some of these guys on listing, they're at this point where it's like, look, we want to play for a contender. We know our value. We don't want to come to a team that's not trying to contend this season. Kind of like the AD mindset where like I completely get it, and that's why we're not really mad at him for thinking this way. You gotta think about, you know, for their career, hall of fame odds and possibility as well. Like, they they want to try to win a rink. That should be your end goal. And then especially with some of these guys in their age right now, where do you really want to go to a team that is about to exit a rebuild, or do you want to go to a team that's a known contender?

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Yeah, we're gonna talk about like probably our favorite free agent targets deep into the offseason when like we just have nothing else to do. Yeah, but these are these are good starts.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Another one that I had in mind just real quick, and he was someone I talked about the team could potentially trade for, and I wouldn't be mad about, would be Colin Sexton.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Hmm. Give me the pitch on this. I gotta be sold on this.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

He's just a defensive-minded guard, and I feel like some of the guards you know are lacking in their defense department.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Uh, I don't really think he's defensive-minded. I gotta be, I don't think he's defensive.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

I do. I I do, but I I you know, it's just and that this also feeds into our part earlier about talking how you made these trades to Philip the Capsix because this free agent class is going to be you know, quite frankly, bad. I mean, the best unrestricted free agent that going into this season, uh, offseason was LeBron. But do you really want to sign a 42-year-old LeBron and does he want to go to Washington? Probably not.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

That'll be awesome.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

And then that leaves you with, oh my goodness, lo and behold, CJ McCollum is the next unrestricted free agent. Along with Chris Middleton, oh, bring everyone home. Bring everyone, everybody's here. You look at it, it's just like a bunch of these, and then a few player options, but like I said, I envision like Zach Levine and James Harden picking up their player options. I don't think we need those guys. I don't think you need them. Andrew Wiggins, Fred Himfly, I and Draymond Green. I envision them picking up their player options.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Yeah, you're you're right. Sorry, I hesitated, but Fred is an interesting idea for another year.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Fred Fred is an interesting idea. Draymond was an interesting idea, but it's just not good.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Jesus, I'm I'm just scared of whatever that entails.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Oh my goodness. But like, it's just that was something that really stuck out to me about how Doc he just straight up said it. It was like, I was disappointed in our defense. I expected us to be better on that end. He was like, I want us to be known as the defensive team. And he mentioned how they were going to make changes to that this offseason to make sure that they're focused on improving their defense. That could include going to get someone that is a defensive-minded player that's going to help you establish that culture a little bit, establish some competition on that end.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

That's what I think we have to be looking at the most next season because you look at the personnel, it's a bunch of you know, long young guys who all have skinny. Young, long, skinny guys. As well as, you know, Anthony Davis and Alex R. And I think if it's the the clear identity when you're looking at it is defense. And that's what they just have to play into and just hope Trey Young can do enough where it isn't like an issue on that end.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Yeah. And so it's it's just really interesting kind of looking at what's going to happen. What's and I think we got some hints, some clues about it with what Dawkins and some other players said in their end of season presser about some of these questions we had going into the offseason. Like, we know one of the biggest one was what was the coaching thing gonna be. We kind of know now, based off the player and you know, uh Will Dawkins' responses of look, Keith's gonna be back for one more season. Although he said I anticipate him being back. Let's be honest, it's like a 95% chance Keith's back.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Yeah, I mean that's that's the takeaway. It's don't expect something crazy.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Yeah, don't expect some drastic crazy move for a coaching change or even a player change. Don't expect any of that. Do not expect Giannis on a Kumpo, dude. Like none of that. Don't even think about making these mock trades for him. It's not gonna happen. If they do make a trade for someone, it is for a role player that is going to bring defense to this team. That's what it will be for.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

I think you have the right idea. The guys who this team has a lot of guys who can play next year. And you don't want someone who's just gonna completely shake up the rotation, someone who can be versatile, sort of subtle with how they help, and you know, unobtrusive both financially and on the court.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Yeah. And so it's just gonna be it's gonna be really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

And but we're excited for next season. Let me ask you. Um, we talked enough wizards. Um, your thunder, would you rather have played the Blazers or the Suns now that the playoffs are starting today? Oh, any of them.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

You don't care at all? No. I mean, I know you're gonna beat everyone, but like, I don't know. I I feel like these are two teams who are both sort of irritating.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

I if I'm being honest, out of those two, out of every team in the play in there, I I probably would have wanted to play um the uh oh my goodness, why am I blanking on the other West team? Blazers and Suns? Blazers, Suns, Warriors, and who else? Clippers? Clippers. I would have rather played the Blazers out of all those teams just because they're young. They don't have a ton of playoff experience. I mean, they have Drew Holiday, but like But it's a lot of Denny on offense. It's a lot of Denny on offense, and I know they can stop him.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

I think the funny thing. I was looking at the San Antonio matchup, and I was like, I don't really know who like the obvious defender. I guess Castle has to do it, but Castle's like five inches shorter. Not five, but like he's significantly shorter than Diddy.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

Well, Diddy, you could have like Jalen Williams, you could have Lou Dort, you could have the bench, you have Alex Caruso, where it's like, I feel like it's an easier matchup. The Suns, I just feel like they have the experience at the guard position with like Brooks and Booker. The biggest can't score. But I will say, I feel like they played the Thunder pretty well this season. The Thunder blew him out by 51 game.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Yeah, but didn't the Suns win a few? I don't think so. I think they swept them. They definitely didn't sweep them. Let me let me look it up.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Phoenix won two games.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Out of five.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

One was out of five.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Yeah. Oh, they played five why'd they play five times in one season?

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Uh NBA Cup, I think.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Wow. I don't know what they're making the cup. What do I know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

Um one game. The Biggs can't score.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

You're definitely ready to go.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

I'm looking at the two games. One game, the game that the Suns won was the last game of the year where the Thunder sat eight guys. And then the other one that they won uh by three. It was a good game. Uh the Thunder ended up losing on the road. It was just tough loss. That's what it was. But I mean, you look at the other games, and this was, I think, like first or second game back for Jalen Williams, so you're still trying to incorporate him into the lineup there a little bit. Yeah, it looks like they won by four. The Thunder won by four in their first matchup of the year. I mean, when when Devin Booker takes almost the same amount of free throws as the Thunder did the entire game. Hey, listen, these things you have to account for. There's a playoff season. You have to account for, you have to account for him. You saw you saw Dylan Brooks call him all foul baiters last night.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Brooks is gonna have a really fun series. That's gonna be fun. You're gonna hate that guy.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

I I do like I don't hate him as a thing. I said you will hate him. Wait till wait in two weeks when the series is over. The thing is, I really like him because like I I watched Lou Dort, so I get it a little bit. Like, that's the thing where it's like I appreciate what he does as a player. I truly do.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

I never thought of him as that similar, but I guess you're right. What? I never thought of him as that similar, but I guess you're right. Like Lou Dort's like just a clumsier, less, less offensively inclined Brooks, but he doesn't really talk. Like Brooks.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

That's the thing, like Dort doesn't talk, Brooks does, and like that's the thing where it's like honestly, I thought about it the other day. I wouldn't mind Brooks on the Wizards. I wouldn't mind it.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

No, of course not. I've I've been on this all season.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

I would I would welcome him with open arms. Like it's it's some of these things, but like the game this the Thunder beat them by 49. That's so nasty. 49. Um, it was it was a full healthy game from the Thunder, which was a thing where Shea shot 11 to 15 from the field. Damn. And the Thunder only took 13 free throws this game. So watch out with those free throw merchant narratives. But watch.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

That's one game out of 82.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

I'm not trying to put this whole scene in that one game. But like, it's just one of those things where it's like, and this was a fully healthy Suns team as well. That's the thing where it's like the Thunder defense is just so good, especially out on the perimeter, where that's why I'm not worried about the Suns because their big men aren't gonna hurt them. I I get worried about the teams where you have a great big man like the Spurs and Nuggets. Those are the teams I I'm worried about as a Thunder fan, not the Suns who are very guard focused.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

No, I wouldn't, no, in all honesty, I wouldn't be worried about either the Suns or the I would be surprised if the Suns take one and Phoenix. Yeah, I anticipate them both being like mildly irritating. Like usually, like we have these lame play-in teams who get swept really uneventfully. The Thunder always get matched up against them because you're always the one seed. Like, these are the one seed. These teams don't really put up fights, and I think this is just gonna be a bit of a different year.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Yeah. I I think that just shows you how good the West was as well this season, where it's like, oh my goodness, like you know, like I feel I've actually seen people talk about oh, uh Blazer Spurs could go, you know, an extra game or two instead of a four-game sweep. I agree with that. I think that series goes six. I I agree with that. I think it goes six, Spurs come out on top, obviously, but part of it is because your most experienced player is Luke Cornette. And he doesn't like he's a good role player, but he's not one of your like main guys. Good point. It's like him and Barnes. Yeah, and I don't think Barnes plays anymore really for him. Yeah, he does. Does he? How many minutes is he getting? Let me find out. But like that also goes to show you, like, he's not really making an impact.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

He plays 25.8 minutes a game.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Shit.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

And he played 77 games this season.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Oh, good for him.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Yeah, good for him.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

I'm on the trains that Barnes should have been in All-Star that uh Golden State year where they won it all the first time. Because he had great numbers.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

He averaged 10 points a game. This season? No, the season they won it all the first time in 2015.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Oh, no. There was a season he averaged like 20 points. 23, like 24 and 24.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

He averaged 18. Wait, hold on. He averaged like 19 between his two Dallas full Dallas seasons. But he never averaged more than 11 in Golden State.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Damn. Was I thinking that? He was only in Golden State for four years, which uh that's really short. What was I thinking then? I I was definitely thinking about Dallas year.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

19. Yeah, and he played a million games both those seasons. Um shit. And it's funny you talked about how good the West is because we were one game away from like the wars with their losing record from making the playoffs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

But they were the only team in that play-in with a losing record. Yeah. But it's funny compared to the East, where every team had a winning record. Yeah. Yeah, but I don't think like with the East, like you see like the two seeded Celtics aren't going to be in a dogfight with who, the seven seed Sixers. Yes. I like I don't see that.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

That could be fun. I haven't thought about that. The the one lemon is the magic. And I don't think anyone's happy that they're here, but I guess this is what we have. So we guessed it.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

You know they're gonna lose in four games to the pests. Yeah, that's like the one series where you're like, all right, this one can go on NBA TV. Yeah, like we don't really care. Go ahead. Have it on your local channel. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

That's all we got. Playoff start today. We'll be locked in. But still, plenty of Wizards talk to go around this summer.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Plenty. We'll be talking about it. Excited. How many days are we from the lottery? How many days? How many days? 30, 30, 32.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Oh, it might be less than that, man. Oh, God, please. I can't take this weight. May 10th. It is less. That's like 20, 20, May 30. 23 days. I'm doing the math. 29 days. Jeez, I can't do math at all. 29 days. That's crazy. It's almost here. Wait, no, I did the math wrong. Wait, 29 is impossible.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

22.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

22? Okay, geez. I was like, I wasn't that wrong. I thought about that for a second. But yeah, uh, we'll be giving updates. I'm sure we'll have either uh a nice little panic pod of something.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Look, I think we gotta get a YouTube channel started and we'll live stream the lottery and give our reactions.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Oh, it's gonna be so funny.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

Yeah. I I will gladly do that. I I do not care. We can do it for the draft as well. That'd be fun. I'm in. Live pod. Screw it. Live pod.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

I'm so in. We'll keep having fun stuff all summer. Uh, but that that's all we got.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Yep. We appreciate each and every single one of you guys for sticking around listening to us ramble about this god awful team this season. But things are changing. Times are changing. But we appreciate you guys, and we'll see you in the next one. Peace.