All Wizards Talk
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All Wizards Talk
How Does Anthony Davis Change the Wizards (feat. Greg Finberg)
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SPEAKER_05Welcome back to All Wizards Talking Podcast on the All Sports Talk Network. I'm Bryson Aikens joined alongside by Henry Brown as always. And ladies and gentlemen, another guest on the pod today, Greg Finnberg. You guys might know him. He's a little bit active in the space. I I see people talk to him quite a bit. Notifications always turned on as well. Some good stuff by Greg. But uh Greg, if people don't know you by now, even though I feel like they should, if you want to give like a little introduction of like what you're doing covering the wizards, go ahead. Be my guest.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, of course. Well, well, thanks, Bryson and Henry. I appreciate you guys having me on. Uh, I mean, I I cover the Wizards. I think my fourth or fifth year in like full-time covering the team. Uh, a lot of my stuff's just through Twitter at Greg Finnberg. I tweet about the games, I tweet about the news, and you sort of get a blend of like beat reporting, but also of my personal opinion on the team. And then obviously I have my podcast, The Wizards Podcast. And that's where you'll probably get more unfiltered opinion and analysis on the team. But but obviously it's a team that isn't covered by many people, which is why I'm glad to be here with two guys that I know do a really good job of doing it. And I'm I'm glad to be here to talk about the the Anthony Davis trade and some other things too.
SPEAKER_07We appreciate your time, Greg. Uh, you you were the one who got the rights to name your uh podcast, the Wizards Podcast, which I always found really impressive. Um, and also, yeah, I just knew you as like when I was getting into like the Wizards Twitter space, you were like the most active dude there. And we were in college for most of the time, I'm out now, but you're still in. We were in for most of the same time. And I always wondered how the hell you caught every single game like that. Like I life happens, and I was like, does this guy just is this guy just the most locked-in man in the world? I never understood it, but you were always there. Uh, and it was definitely hairier than it is now. It's actually sort of looking up after uh some recent developments. Bryson, has any trade taken place recently that you might have heard of?
SPEAKER_05I mean, there's a certain guy they traded for over in Dallas. Uh people some people call him street close. I don't know why. Uh I don't know why they call him street clothes Davis, but by the name of Anthony Davis, top 75 player all time, one of the best two-way talents the NBA has ever seen. And that's kind of what I want to start start with here on the episode is like your personal thoughts on the trade itself for Anthony Davis as it kind of came out of left field. No one really saw this coming whatsoever. Just we we saw there was a report by I think it was Mark Stein talking about how the Wizards engaged in discussions for DeMontis Abonis again, surrounded by Chris Middleton, that kind of package. And I was getting ready to write it up, and then 10 minutes later, the Shams notification came out that they traded for Anthony Davis. So ultimately, what were like your thoughts on the deal itself?
SPEAKER_06When I first saw, like if you guys get the Shams notifications, like it was a lengthy notification. Like he he had a lot of stuff to say, like 10 time all-star and all that before AD. Uh, and so like I didn't see the team that got traded to. Um, and I was actually, I was uh I I covered Penn State football too. So like I was at like a media session for I was sitting with the running backs coach and talking to him about like the players, and I saw my phone, and I was like, honestly, I hope it's not the Wizards, because I'd have to drop everything and cover it right now. Uh, but it would be pretty cool if that were the case. And then I saw Washington Wizards, and I mean I was shocked as I think most people were. Like, you didn't think or know that Anthony Davis would get traded, and and of all places, the Wizards would be one of the the you know bottom five teams I would guess that trades for him. Uh, but but they did. So obviously I dropped everything and did a spaces I try to cover it as best as I could. Um, but pretty pretty shocking, right? You said it was out of left field. This abonus stuff didn't make too much sense to me just because you know he he's up there and not on the same trajectory as their young core. He's been hurt a lot of this season, he hasn't been that great this season. Um, I don't know how he fits alongside a guy like Alex Tsar. Um, but when I when I saw Anthony Davis, you sort of take a second to be shocked, and then you you kind of think, okay, well, how is he gonna fit on this team? He's under contract for two more years with the player option at 62 million. Um, I like the fit. Like, I get what they're trying to do here. It's a bye-low move. Like I mentioned, you know, none of the five picks that they traded, two firsts and three seconds, were not they weren't their own picks. They were all picks that they had acquired from other teams, but they also weren't quality picks, they weren't good picks. Obviously, the second rounders speak for themselves, but the one first is going to be the 30th pick via OKC this year, the other first is until 2030, and it's top 20 protected. Um, and so when you look at the package, it's a buy-low move for a guy that could bring your team to contention next year. It makes sense bit wise, alongside Alex Sar, they can play the four or the five, doesn't really matter. And so you check both boxes there. It's an unorthodox trade. Um, and and it it's a it's a weird trade because some people think it doesn't fit the timeline. And you know, Anthony Davis being 32 and pairing him with the young core, are you gonna stunt the growth of some of the players? Is that what Trey Young's gonna do? Uh, but I don't think that that's the way that I would approach it or view it. I I think it's a good buy-low move. It works, you know, great. You know, if it doesn't, then you're not really out too many assets. And I think, you know, for SAR, who's gonna, I think, develop the most and benefit the most playing alongside Davis. I mean, who better to learn from as a young rim protector than arguably the best rim protector this league has seen consistently for the past 10 years since he's been here? So uh shocking, like you mentioned, Bryson, but but I I get the move, and I think for value-wise and value purposes, um, I think it's a smart move to make.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I I get the move as well, um, to an extent. I do think if they extend him, then I'm like, okay, what was the point of this deal then? Because I don't see a need to extend Davis when he's turning 34 years old. He's gonna be at the tail end of his career. It's gonna be, you know, knowing Davis and Rich Paul, they're gonna try to get every single dollar that they can. And also, like, you have to keep in mind of like, what if he can stay healthy? Like, if he can stay healthy, we saw in 2023, 2024, just two seasons ago, he played 76 games and was, you know, first team all defense and second all NBA. Like, that's the kind of player you get in Davis if he can stay healthy. And with Sarr, I think personally, you know, he's not gonna have as much pressure on offense or defense. He can kind of play more of a help role, uh, especially on the defensive side, not take as much, you know, pressure there. It should help his body a little bit. And then he's not gonna be relied on on offense like he was in Dallas before Cooper Flag came over there. And even in LA at times, if you couldn't rely on LeBron, you had to rely on AD. So of course his body was gonna get banged up more. So I I'm kind of confident he can stay healthy. And like I I saw you were gonna say something, Henry.
SPEAKER_07Well, I mean, Saar and AD, I mean, I've heard you've heard the thing they said where like they envisioned SAR as like a four potentially, and AD as a five, which is sort of funny because we think of SAR as a five, and we know AD wants to be a four, or he has said that through his career. Um the shooting might be um something they have to prioritize in the offseason because you have to really hope that Saar, because you don't depend on AD to develop a jumper at this stage in his career, Saar has of course flashed it. He started the season pretty hot. Not so much now, I think he's at 33% from the three. Um and you have to really hope that Trey Young has his shot back and that he's right back to passing out to everyone else. Because the Wizards outside of those two big guys are a pretty good shooting team. Um Keyshan can shoot, Bub can shoot, uh Trey Johnson can shoot. You have to assume whoever they're gonna get in the offseason is gonna be able to shoot a little bit. Um but the spacing is gonna be interesting. How you know Sar and AD can both like attack closeouts and thinking both handle the ball, but I think that's gonna be something you have to prioritize because this was the rare eight-person trade where only one person really matters, where the guys that Mavericks got, it's a bunch of guys who are on expiring contracts. You know, Bagley's cool, we like Bagley. Um AJ Johnson, maybe he'll work out there. You know, they they have you know time, they're on a rebuild now. And most of the guys Wizards are getting aren't they actually aren't really getting them. Jaden Hardy was in attendance yesterday, so that's something. Uh he might actually play at some point. Uh D'Angelo Russell, we know that he's uh not gonna be here for long. Dante Akin already got cut. Uh so I I think they just really have to play their cards carefully and making sure that they're putting these main guys in a position to succeed because it's not the defense is gonna be great. But like I I think on offense they're gonna have to prove you can't sag off of us. Because one of these guys is gonna be in a w they have to like just follow the Kenny Atkinson playbook in Cleveland and just keep these guys in motion and just pass the crap out of the ball.
SPEAKER_05I'm gonna be intrigued to see with AD now if it's gonna be a more like pick and roll style offense. They were doing a bunch of dribble handoff when they had Bagley in that second unit, but with both AD and SAR, I'm I'm really intrigued to see if it's gonna be a ton of screening action instead of just you know, just you know, off ball movement, not using a screener, trying to cut, get something going, cut baseline, little V, L cut, cut into the elbow. Now with AD, you have another big body. Like, it's just I'm really intrigued to see what changes with the offenses. As you mentioned, there are shooters. Clearly, there are shooters on this team with Trey Johnson, Keyshawn. Bub, even though some people want to say he's having a down year, he's been one of the best three-point shooters in the NBA.
SPEAKER_07The problem is their shooters aren't defenders, like Keyshawn can shoot and defend. Bub is actually better defensively than I thought he'd be out of the draft. He has like good hands. Um, neither Trey can really defend uh that well. And you have to find a middle ground. You can't have guys who can only defend and can't and can't shoot, and then the other way around. That's the concern, I guess. If there is one, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And and you mentioned picking up someone in the draft, and this kind of leads into something else I want to talk about with you as well, Greg. Um I don't know who you had number one on your board for the Wizards to take if they got first overall. Um, but now with AD, does that change for you whatsoever?
SPEAKER_06It's actually it's a really good question. Uh, I mean, I'm always BPA, like I especially for a rebuilding team, like the way the Wizards have been, like, they need to draft talent. Like, they they can't really afford to pick and choose. Um, I mean, the best instance of this for me is is I always cite when Cleveland took Garland the year after they they took Sexton. It was, I mean, what are you guys doing? Why are you taking back-to-back guards? You need everything, and you're just taking the same position. But they knew Garland was really good, and Garland was the guy that eventually led them back to playoffs alongside Mitchell. And I think that he's one of the best players of that draft class. Um, if you're the Wizards, like you don't want to just take a specific position uh because he's not the best player, but he fits what you're trying to do. It's a very short-sighted approach, and as we've seen from this front office, they are not a short-sighted front office. They like to just think, how will this help me four or five years down the line and more? And so when you're looking at the draft, like, yeah, you have two really good bigs, and one's under contract for two more years, the other sort of the centerpiece of your rebuild. That doesn't scare me from taking a big. If they think Boozer is the best player at a specific position, you take him. And I don't really care that you already have really good front court, you take the best player. And if that's the case for a Debanza where you're like, hey, you know, we might think that he fits here, but we still think a guy like Peterson is better, you take the better player. And I mean, I think the Wizards just want to keep their pick, like they're tanking really hard. The Jazz are tanking really hard because they have top eight protected picks, and everyone's getting mad at them for doing so. The primary incentive for them is like they might get eight, and that would suck. But first and foremost, at least they would have a top eight pick and not just lose it out, right? Like, that's what they're trying to do. That's what the Jazz just tanked uh blatantly in in Orlando. That's what they're trying to do. Uh and so if you're the Wizards, like you want obviously to just keep your pick, and if you get a really lucky lottery um, you know, result, then that's great. Uh, but if I'm the Wizards, like, you know, you have Trey Young as your your point guard, I guess, for this for next year and beyond. You have Trey Johnson, you know, you have your backcourt, but I'm taking Darren Peterson. I personally think he's the best player in the draft. If I have the first pick, I'm taking him. I don't care if you already have a point guard, he's that good. And if you're the Wizards, I think Will Dawkins probably shares a similar philosophy. He's just gonna take whoever he thinks can help the team win, regardless of position.
SPEAKER_05D D's I I think we all have different picks for this because I personally think Boozer is best available. And I still I still take him number one overall, even with AD, because I and I don't know if both of you guys agree with me on this, but I see AD as like a one-year player in Washington. You trade him before the deadline, try to get his value up a little bit. I I just don't see him with a long-term fit on this team whatsoever. And that's why I'm still like boozer's number one for me, no matter what. You figure it out down the line. And Henry, I don't know if you're more of AJ or DP.
SPEAKER_07Uh not AJ. Um, I'm either I was I was all in on boozer for a while. Um DP is so good though. Like this, I mean that that that Kansas BYU game, I know that you're supposed to take more than just one game, but man, like I know this guy has cramps or whatever's going on. But like he he looks like Kobe Bryant. Like, I can't I can't believe like this how how it looks.
SPEAKER_05I've seen people talk about him like as the best guard prospect since like Derek Rose, and I I see it.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, he's really a Kyrie, maybe Kyrie was Kyrie's pretty similar because he made it. But he was just like that good. I will say, Brayson, like I also think Boozer's really good. It doesn't seem like Will Dawkins type player, like it doesn't seem like he doesn't have the length or positional size or the defensive versus that like a Will Dawkins would would like to take, especially that early. Like if he falls to like four or five, I think obviously that's a home run pick for value purposes. But like I wouldn't I wouldn't put it past Dawkins to even have like Caleb Wilson ahead of him or like a Kingston Flemings ahead of him, just because like those guys have the length, the size, the positional versatility that we've seen Dawkins take. Now, Trey Trey Johnson was a little unique just because like a lot of the players he had drafted could defend, and Trey Johnson was considered one of the worst defenders in the draft. But sometimes your offense is just so good that it doesn't matter, and that was the case for him, and you're seeing it kind of translate. Um, but if like if I'm if I'm predicting what the Wizards like big board is right now, top five, like I think they'd probably have Peterson, Debanza, one, two, and then I'd probably think like Caleb Wilson or Flemings and then Boozer, just based on how they've drafted.
SPEAKER_07Well, Bryson, you saw AJ in person.
SPEAKER_05If you I did get to see AJ the other day, and so I got to witness that Oklahoma State, the court storming that was a great environment. But I mean, like, you know, after watching him, and Greg, you mentioned like, you know, uh Dawkins likes to draft guys with length. He likes to draft guys with upside defensively, offensively, you know, just kind of these athletic specimens almost. And you saw that when he wasn't OKC the final year there, he was the big reason Uzman Jang was drafted there, where why they traded for him on draft night. He he was. He he pushes like look at his length, look at his athleticism. He can kind of do it all. We know it's a project, but you've got to take him and see if it develops. Clearly, it didn't develop because he was traded like four times, five times.
SPEAKER_07He had a long background day.
SPEAKER_05And but after watching that BYU game, I was like, man, like I like it would not surprise me if DeBonte is number one on his board right now because of all those things. He can score at will, he he can shoot, he can, he can defend because of his size, he has that length. Like I said, he has like I like to use this term for a lot of guys that have these insane wing spans, kind of like you know, like Jalen Williams over in OKC. AJ DeBonsa has like go-go gadget arms where like they just keep on extending, they can't ever stop.
SPEAKER_07Like it it's yet, and that's I feel like he gets like no stocks though. Like, I that that raises a flag. I don't know if it's a red flag, it's a scarlet flag. That like there's not a whole lot of blocker steal numbers in his game. I don't really understand why though. Like, because you you're right, he has the length. I don't know where like where where the deflection is.
SPEAKER_05I I I saw him get a few deflections in that game that just never turned into any steals for him, was another thing. But like I I am a firm believer of you can you you like defense is really hard to come by, but if you're athletic, you can become a good defender. Like if you are just this uber athletic player, you can become a good defender. And that's why I see in Trey Johnson. He is we've seen he's super athletic. I have faith that he can yeah. But I after watching that game, I think I think Peterson, or not Peterson, DeBonsa would be number one in his board because of all those things. I am getting to see Peterson as well in like a week and a half, and so maybe that changes when I see him as well. This is a good thing. I get to see all these guys in action now. But it like it's just really interesting. Boozer right now for me is still number one. I see him as a Kevin Love type of player, and growing up, Kevin Love was my favorite player in the league. It was. But uh moving away from the draft a little bit and solely on like what Anthony Davis is going to do to affect this team. Henry, you asked a question for Will that kind of blew up about you know, D'Anzo Russell, what's the plan, what's going on? And it almost seems like it's going to it's going to the terms of like a buyout, it looks like. But I do want to ask both of you if you see there's any chance he plays this season. And if he does, do you think it's one of those things where it's like, man, maybe he play picks up his player option next year?
SPEAKER_07Well, I mean, so he wouldn't would he still have the player option if he's because he wouldn't play in DC probably. It sounds like he won't play in DC. Um that's what it sounds like.
SPEAKER_05I'm just saying, like, it like if you see there's any possibility, and if he does, do you see him picking up that player option?
SPEAKER_07Probably not. I because I mean I was already on the fence about I was sort of intrigued by the idea of him as like a tank commander. And I I was talking to Josh Valdez, a friend of the pod. I was talking about this on the day of the trade, where I just said I can't have something about the the D Lo angle of this, where like he's this at least he can be like in baseball you have like these innings eaters. At least D Lo can be that. Just like someone to chew up some clock while Trey Young hangs out on the bench. I don't know. Like maybe after 10 games, Brian Keefe would like banish him to the Shadow Realm because he didn't like his defense. But I was like, it's it's intriguing, at least, you know, maybe he'll play, maybe he won't. Um and then I just don't think that he plays after Will Dawkins says that sort of thing. Especially he said, like, you know, he's not gonna report while we figure out what's best for him. I don't know, how often is that sort of thing followed by someone actually coming in for duty? I I sort of assume it's a really cheap contract he's on. It's not this big superstar deal. Um I wouldn't be surprised if it was a buyout. Because they already waived Xum, and there's reasons to think he wouldn't fit this version of the Wizards team. They're built on defense and youth, and that's not exactly what he brings, even if uh the shooting intrigue is there, it hasn't been there this season, but it's there.
SPEAKER_06I think I mean you're gonna buy you. I think Henry said like it was a rare like one for eight trade where like the Wizards got the player they wanted, and like you don't really know if the the Mavs are really gonna use a lot of players that they ended up getting in the trade. Um so like Henry said, I I I don't think that that he's gonna play here. Um I mean the Wizards bought out Marcus Smart, who is making$20 million, like that's significantly more than like the five and a half million dollars that uh Russell's making this year, and then the$5.9 million option for next year. Um if you're Russell and and the Wizards say, hey, like we can give you a lot of this money that you're owed this year just up front, and then buy out the second year, and just you go sign with the contender, and then you're free in free agency to make more money. Like, I think for both sides, that's just clearly the best possible approach you can have. It's the best of both worlds. And like, yeah, D'Angelo Russell won't be making the entire combined like 11 or 12 million that he's owed, but he'll recoup a lot of it, he'll make a decent bit on a vet minimum contract for the rest of the year, and now he's free to sign for more money in free agency. Like, he's not where he used to be, but I I find it hard to believe that there isn't a singular team in free agency this summer that won't offer him a couple million or won't offer him a vet minimum. And so if you're D Lo, I think you'll you'll basically recoup all the money that you give back in a buyout while you also get a chance to not only play for a ring this year, but also sign with a contender next year. Uh, it it makes sense, I think, for both sides. And and based on the tone that Dawkins took, um it was kind of a like, you know, we're gonna do what's best for both sides, but I think we're gonna try to get the best out of it that we can. And I mean, if they want to play Will Riley all these minutes and they want to play John Ear Watkins and stuff, I don't know if they're interested in, like Code Henry said, like a tank commander and D Lo. Although I think he'd be really fun. I was actually excited to watch D'Angelo Russo play with this team. He would take, he would have the greenest light ever. He would take 25 shots a game, and I know the Wizards don't want that, but I think it'd be fun.
SPEAKER_07He and Vuksevich would have been a lethal combo because those are two guys who they don't care where they're standing, they don't care who's in front of them, they don't care what part of the game it is, they'll just take any shot they want. And it has a puncher's chance of going in. That would I I agree. I was I was excited for what was to happen, but it sounds like the two sides are more or less on the same page about whatever's happening next.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I I don't see him here long term either. Uh I think it's a buyout that I think we can all kind of agree is what's coming into. And if they don't agree on a buyout, he might just sit the entire season, not show up to Washington one bit, and then decline the player option. I don't see him suiting up in a Wizards jersey ever. And there are a lot of guys that are like that that, you know, unfortunately, the repertoire of the Wizards the past few seasons have been why do I want to go to Washington to play? I think D'Lo still has that mindset, even though times are changing. But it was really interesting. We saw Dante Eggsum get cut. Jaden Hardy was someone that I see Maz fans hype up quite a bit as well. I don't know if you guys have looked into his game either, but maybe he's the tank commander. I don't know what you guys think of his game whatsoever.
SPEAKER_07He's a tank commander, personally. Um, I'd like to hear Greg's thoughts on this, but um, I I don't know. Like he's he's like a functional player. He was in the rotation when they went to the finals two years ago. Um, I think he's gonna be a guy who like he's definitely like a heat checky microwave guy, but he's probably gonna be like have like That late late stage Cam Whitmore kind of role where he plays like 15, 20 minutes. Maybe he's got it, maybe he doesn't. I don't know. Like, you know, maybe, maybe he'll help us this night, but you know, he's not a foundational guy.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I mean, I think Henry kind of hit on the head. Um, I mean, he's 23 years old, he's under contract. Uh both next year, and then he has a team option at six million the following year because they signed into like a really, a really tiny rookie extension. Uh you see all these lucrative deals, but this was definitely a unique one. Um, he is like a heat check guy. I think at times you you might watch him play and be like, why are you shooting that or why are you driving that? And just like he has so much athleticism and skill and speed. And like I I liked him coming out of the draft, but you just you didn't think he would turn into like this like point guard that distributes the ball and and sort of dictates the offense. He's more so of like, I'm gonna get my own at times. And I think a lot of Mavericks fans that I talked to after the trade were were sort of like, you know, he's gonna take some shots that you don't want. He's he doesn't necessarily play the way that like your coach probably wants him to play. Um, and he's not the greatest defender in terms of like I'm gonna commit on this end, but like he'll have some pretty cool plays, and like maybe, maybe he'll turn out, but obviously, you know, at 23, not drafted by the Wizards. Like, I I don't see him as like he's a part of this core. But on the contract, he's on, he takes up a roster spot, he's still young. Like, I don't see why they would move on from him. And I mean, they waived XM, they're not bringing in Russell, but Henry took the picture yesterday. He was in a big, you know, big puffer jacket on the bench. Like, you know, he's he's around the team, and that gives me reason to believe that at least he'll be here through this season, uh, and maybe maybe in the future as well.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you you mentioned defense, he's not really gonna give it a ton on that side of the ball. And we saw that with Whitmore at the beginning of the season as well, and it felt like he was slowly buying more into the philosophy a little bit. And I think part of that is he's you know, Whitmore's from the DMV, so naturally he's gonna want to play for a little bit more, playing for his hometown team a little bit. But Hardy, I see him as the same way a little bit. Like offensively, he's been he's been solid off the bench for Dallas the past four seasons. I mean, this year in 12 minutes, he was averaging seven points a game on 37 shooting from deep. Like that's solid numbers. He's been a good three-point shooter, he's been good shooting-wise, is just defensively. He's like, to put it frank, from what I've heard, he he's a cone. I that's that's what I've heard. He just doesn't put up a ton of you know effort on that end of the ball. It's kind of like uh, you know, more like the Cam Thomas style of play. Like, let me go ahead and get my own here on offense, and then I'll take a little bit of a break on defense and not put out any more pressure than I need to.
SPEAKER_07I wish so he was in, so you said it's his fourth year, right? Yes. So does he have like one year after this? Isn't he expiring? Second round pick, so I think it's a good one. He's a second rounder. Yeah, okay. So minutes are gonna be at a premium along the wings next season, just like they were this last season, even though you know, no KISSP that made things easier. Uh Whitmore is gonna be out for a while, maybe he'll be back next year, who's to say. Um yeah, I I next season I think minutes are gonna be more crowded. Uh and I I just be interested to see how that's balanced with Will Riley's ascent right now. I was lucky enough to talk to some of the people after the game about that. I talked to Eric Spolstra, who, you know, he said he worked out Will Riley. And I I feel like I feel like Riley might be like a better prospect than like Bub at this point, where like he's shooting up like so fast. I I can't believe like how quickly he's uh figured it out because the rap with him out of the draft was this guy has a really deep bag, but he's doesn't have the best like physical profile, but he's also 6'10. So this guy is just like the biggest mystery box on the team, I feel like, right now, where he has maybe more creativity than anyone else on the rotation. Um, but again, he's also a long way away from being physically comfortable with the with the NBA. And I just I feel like they're gonna clear the way for him to be this like dependent on rotational guy next season with the Trey Young AD Star Wizards and the Hardee's and uh the Whitmores are gonna be like, if you got it, maybe maybe you'll see some minutes. Sorry, long tangent. I just I just have a lot of Riley on my mind.
SPEAKER_06I think like if you were to if you were to tell me that like you think that Will Riley's offensive game is more developed than Balal Kulabali's at this point, I I think you're right. Like Bilal's a crazy defender, he's really good on the perimeter, but like offensively his bag is pretty non-existent, and he showed that he has some stuff, but he just doesn't use it or he doesn't have it most of the time. But Will Riley, like, he got to the rim pretty easily over this stretch, and he's able to knock down the three, he's able to score from the mid-range and with the float game, and like he he's kind of worked himself into like I'll be in the rotation next season just because he's such a versatile player, he can get you a bucket off the bench, and you gotta hope like the physicality you mentioned, he's gotta get stronger, and and we know that, but I I'm completely in the boat of him being in the rotation. I I'm curious about the Hardy stuff. Like, I wonder which side put him in the deal. Like, I wonder if the Wizards were like, Yeah, we would make this trade, but we want him here, or if Dallas was like, we'll make the trade, but you have to take him in this contract because he's such a bad defender and we can't we we can't move forward paying him or giving him any semblance of minutes. So I wonder, you know, who sort of asked for that. If the Wizards wanted him in the trade, then like they clearly have a you know a reason for doing so and want him around. But I could also see Dallas being like, hey, we'll do this, but like you gotta take this guy's contract because we don't want it. I could see both sides.
SPEAKER_05That's a great question. It's not even like it's a bad contract either. I mean, six million a year with a team option for his third season, like especially for a rebuilding team like Dallas. I would assume you want someone like that on there because you know he's gonna be electric, he's a great offensive player. Like we said, the defense is a problem, needs to improve a little bit. He's young though, it can improve. Like he, you know, he's only 23, right? Yeah, he said that, yeah. 23. Yeah, he's he's only 23. He's been in the league. This is his fourth year. He's clearly gotten better every single year. It's just Dallas, he was losing minutes continuously because you know, at one point they were a championship contender just a season ago. And so it's just one of those things where like I you you mentioned it, Greg. I I look at the stats, I look at the contract. It it honestly looks like one of these things where like the Wizards are like, look, we'll do this deal. We just want Hardy. Like, give us Hardy in return, and we can get this done.
SPEAKER_07I mean, looking past the financial stuff where AD is also the financial centerpiece of this, he's making the most money of anyone in the deal. And it's pretty easy to see why all the wizards are in there. Like, all the wizards are either salary filler or you just weren't making it on this team. Whereas in Dallas, I w I wish we could have asked that. Like the Hardy thing is a great point because he's he's probably the toughest case to make because I think they were they didn't want to pay D'Lo anymore. He's had uh DNPs, I think, for all but one of his last 17 games. Yeah. Um Dante Xum, I don't know what happened to him, but he broke, he's ruptured his knee or something. He's had leg surgery, uh knee surgery, been out since uh like he played 10 games this year, won't play again this season at least. But AD is also like they traded him just because he's like a specter of the Luka trade and just want to be rid of him. So there's already like a million reasons to think about the reasons to do this trade besides the on-court basketball stuff. And the Hardy thing is another wrinkle to that. Like it's a great point. Like, did they get rid of him because they didn't want to have this another Luka role player around who also wasn't playing much defense, or did they just want to accelerate the rebuild and get more of their young guys?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's it's almost like it's like you look at it. I and I could be mistaken, the only two players left from that Luca-led championship team are Kyrie and Dwight Powell. Those are eternal Dwight Powell's eternal, he'll always be in Dallas. But it like if they are looking to do a rebuild, like I'm like it has me a little bit confused that they're like, look, like, why didn't you try the Kyrie AD Cooper lineup first before seeing if like, oh, maybe this is something that we can actually do and compete in the West with this instead of just being like, oh, we'll trade AD because now it almost feels like they'll trade Kyrie as well. It almost feels like that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it makes me it makes me think that they're just cleaning house because like I think they have some sort of interim GM in place because they fired Nico. And like, I I think maybe their whole goal is like we messed up really bad with the Luca trade, but we fired the guy who did it, and we got really bailed that we got Cooper Flag, and so let's literally gut the entire roster, get what we can get, and then move on and just build around Cooper Flag. You also gotta remember, like, Nico Harrison drafted Jaden Hardy, and Nico Harrison gave him the extension. So, like at a certain point, you know, I think Anthony Gill's the only guy remaining from when Will Dawkins took over. Like, you knew at a certain point, you didn't know when, but you knew like Corey Gisbert was probably gonna get traded at some point. You didn't know that Denny was gonna get traded, but when he got traded, it was like, okay, well, these guys didn't draft him, so I guess it makes sense. And so maybe that's what Dallas is doing, and they're like, Yeah, we just want to get rid of it. It could be both, too. It could be Dallas wanted to get off the contract, and Washington valued Hardy as a player and a playmaker, maybe in the future. Um, but but yeah, that was one of the things I was interested in. Obviously, the 80 aspect is the big picture, but like, did the Wizards want Hardy or was he a throw-in? Because you know the other two, and and really the other four from Washington's perspective were just there to make the money work.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and you mentioned the Corey thing, which that's still I'm not surprised he was traded as to get that Trey Young deal to work, you kind of needed to, you know, put him in that deal. Um, but the way that from what I've heard from the organization, when I met with Will the past few times, like they they really liked Corey, they didn't want to trade him. Like, he he is someone that you know, I remember from the beginning of the season, they were like, Yeah, this is someone that they kind of envisioned being on the team long term. And of course, you know, if you can turn CJ McCollum and Corey Kispert into Trey Young, one when he's healthy and playing, he one of the best guards in the NBA, you're gonna do that 10 out of 10 times. But it still kind of shocks me he was traded. But going back to Hardy, I was there for the you know Washington and Dallas game. He played solid. Like he he played well, and he only played 11 minutes, but he still gave them nine points in those 11 minutes and was a sharpshooter from distance, kept that game close when he was in there. It's just like I look at it and I feel like the deal was one of these things where Dawkins was only doing it and he was like, Look, like we'll do this deal. I just want Hardy and return as well, instead of like, let's say someone else that hasn't really been playing for Dallas.
SPEAKER_06That's fair.
SPEAKER_07The rotation could could use a little extra as something something. Um they you know they traded Kispert and CJ, two guys who were getting regular minutes for Trey Young, hasn't played one yet with the wizards, and then all the third stringers are out the door after after uh the AD trade. And I want to actually ask you guys about about this skeleton crew wizards lineup because they've won four the last eight. Some of these losses have been extremely uncompetitive, the last two, especially. Um and if I could ask you guys before you go, what have you like liked and disliked about this this most recent run of Wizards Ball? Because I feel like it's not it's not as bad as the Pearl Clutchers in New York are claiming it is. It's not completely unethical because some of these young guys really can't play.
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SPEAKER_06Yeah, I I mean if I go first, like, I mean, I've loved Will Riley, and like he was a guy that I I entered the season thinking he he probably wouldn't be a part of the rotation to begin with. But the best part is like all of the guys who didn't really want to see play or care to see play, like I remember like I would post a couple times, like CJ had like the 50-point game, or like Chris had a big game, and and Wizards fans are just like, we don't care, like they're gone, they're taking these guys' minutes, and they can score, and they're helping these guys develop on and off the court, but we don't care that they're getting their own, they're taking 20 shots a game. The best part to me has been like Will Riley has showed that in minutes that when he gets them, he he's gonna do well, he's gonna produce, and he can score. Um, and that's pretty beneficial, I think, to the Wizards in terms of how they plan for next year and the rotation. I love me some Jameer Watkins on defense because he's really fun to watch. He had the big dunk. Um, I think Yeagor Demon in Brooklyn, um, he's really fun. Uh, my favorite part though has been Sharif Cooper at sub-six foot, just like climbing the trees and like finding ways to score. Um, he's electric, he's fun, and I don't think he's gonna carve out some role on this team next year. I wouldn't be surprised if he's not here because he's on a two-way contract, but he's been so fun to watch. And it's fun to watch those games because like I remember like when the Wizards were good, and like they used to be the Pistons where they could they could not beat the teams that they should have beat to save their life. And like at home, you'd have the worst team come into Capital One or Verizon at the time, and they would just they couldn't miss. And you had Balal who made the ridiculous three against Detroit. Like, I know how they felt, and like that's the most fun, I think, is like watching the young guys develop, but also like you're playing without money, like it's you're Wizards fans are mad, obviously, that they're losing, but the team that you're beating should be embarrassed based on some of the lineups you're throwing out there. So I think that's been the most fun part. Um, I mean, the the least fun part is like the Lakers games, and like where you're literally it's literally a non-competitive game from the jump. Like, look at a triple-double in the first half in the next two. Um, I mean, the Brooklyn game, even like in the Miami game for the last three quarters, like it's not fun to watch when it's just non-competitive. Um, and honestly, those games are like when the starters are playing big minutes. I feel like the team plays freer and better when they're like just actively tanking and just saying we want to lose this game. Because no one cares about the result. You're just looking at is Will Riley playing well, is Jameer Watkins playing well, and I think that's been the most fun part. But but obviously there's the downsides of games where you got the let's go Lakers chance and Bronny chance, and you're like, this is like good because the Wizards are losing, but like what are we doing? Like, you know, and and so that that's not fun.
SPEAKER_07The Bronny chant was un I think that was the loudest I heard Cap one all season. I've I've been I think I've missed like four games this season. I've been every other one. That's the loudest I think it's gotten all season when he got that this like simple transition dunk that was unbelievable. Um, and one thing about you mentioned Sharif Cooper. I think that's another case for why D Lo probably won't play because they're just using Sharif Cooper to do the exact same thing. And they're both like roller coaster players. Like Sharif Cooper, I think, hit the bottom of the rim twice yesterday in that heat game. Um, and some of his turnovers are just Looney Tune stuff. And and same goes for that uh is it Keisha Johnson, that guy they signed a few days ago. Sean Gilbert. Sean Gilbert, where'd I where'd I get the counters from? Um those those guys are just you know, they can have a highlight or they really won't. Um and I I I hope if there's one thing that has I've noticed from these last few games, these guys can't pass. Like they actually the shooting isn't as bad as you might be afraid it is, because you know, Riley's been uh lighting it up recently. Uh but I feel like the entry passes all fly into the third row. Um and they definitely could use the good Cooper minutes when he's just got the offense under control and he's just you know pick and roll, kick out. That's what that's what they should probably I don't want to say lean more into because I don't know how much Sheree Cooper can handle like a huge minute load. But I I guess you're noticing the lack of order and administration in the offense, if I can say that.
SPEAKER_05Uh two things I've noticed are first one, Blackwell Bali. I mean, defensively, we know what he is gonna bring to the table, but I mean he was a big reason on defense why the Wizards beat the Pistons. If we're gonna be honest about that, he ended up playing 36 minutes that night. He only had 11 points, shot 412 in the field, not great shooting wise. Sorry, but defensively, he had a steal and a block, and you know, with his premier uh action out there, he helped you know hold the pistons at 27% shooting from distance. Like, and that that's just kind of the pressure he brings. He's not gonna like I don't see him getting a ton of blocks. Sometimes he'll have a three, you know, steal game, but oftentimes he's only getting like a one a game, and it's just because of his length and his tenacity, he's playing up on guys and he's not giving them kind of space to breathe whatsoever. And it's leading to a lot of missed shots when you see him guarding certain guys. I mean, like, it's not like Cade had a great game. I mean, take away his free throws. He only had 20 points that night. The Pistons also can't shoot.
SPEAKER_07Um, and I I think I I think when in Balal Well, I mean, Duncan Robinson went crazy. I mean he did, he did. I don't think there's a whole lot beyond him, and and that's the case for most of these nights. Um I but I think Ballal has these nice moments when Treyon comes back, and if Bilal's still here next season, I think they're gonna be the best of buds. That pick and roll, the cutting game, et cetera, for that. And same with Watkins. He's actually been cutting off ball decently the last few games as well.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and uh the second thing I've noticed is Vuksevich. I was not a believer going into the season. I was not a big fan, I'll be honest. Defensively, do I still think he's a cone? Yes. All right, he he still has a lot to prove on defense for me to believe in the hype. However, offensively, he he's he's making me feel some sort of way right now. I mean, that that Pistons game, he only had 11 minutes, but I think he had 14 points. When he's got going to the first shot, did you know he was the scoring leader for the Wizards last night? Oh, is that the game? I didn't know that. Yeah, he was the scoring leader for the Wizards last night. It was only 14 points, but still, he he was like he had the most points on the team. And I just I don't see like, but it's been this whole entire stretch, even against the Nets. He shot six of 12 from the field for 14 points. It's just been a consistent 14-14-14 the past few games. I mean, Detroit, five of seven, three or four from deep. Miami, he went four or five from deep. Like offensively, he's there. Just defense. I mean, like, it's so hard for me to want to start believing because like like I talked about it earlier this season. Like, anytime you see him guarding someone, whether it's down low or in the perimeter, you can go ahead and give the other team a point. Just like I hate to feel this way about him, but oh my goodness, it's just bad. But the offense is wanting to make me believe a little bit.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I mean, he he has never seen a shot he doesn't like. He loves the ball, he loves offense. Like Henry mentioned earlier as well, like he's one of those Cam Whitmore type players. Like, he he's really good on offense, and he actually like the last couple games have showed like he has good touch, especially when he gets inside. He's not gonna be a bruising scorer, but he's he's got an ability to like hit a turnaround or like you know, an over his I think he prefers his left shoulder, but like he he's not bad at scoring in the paint. And and from three, he was four or five, like he can shoot the ball, but you mentioned he's a traffic cone on defense, and like it's one thing to be a traffic cone, but it's another thing to where like you're so thin down low that like even if you are there, they're just gonna go and and remove you. It's like they pick up the traffic cone and just say, Okay, I'm just gonna score, and like what are you gonna do about it? And like that's what he is, and and on a team that values that type of defense, especially on the interior. Like, I find it hard to believe that next year they're gonna want to go with AD and SAR as your starting front court, and then just say, Hey, we're gonna bring in Tristan Vuksevich, and that's gonna be like that's gonna be our rotation center, and he's gonna be our guy that's gonna come in here and play no semblance of defense, and that's gonna fall off big time, but he's gonna be able to make some shots when he's open. Like, I can't see that happening, which is why like maybe they convert him to a standard deal. They have two open roster spots, but I I I I would be really surprised if they don't bring someone else in to at least be hey, they'll they'll bring back Bagley.
SPEAKER_05We know this. I he's great, I would love that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you go to the city.
SPEAKER_05I was just gonna say, I mean, like, I want to believe there are some games I look throughout his game log, and I'm like, man, you you make me feel some sort of way, Tristan. You do. I mean, in a loss against the Spurs back in December, he went eight of 19 for 18 points. Like, I'll I'll take that out of our backup center. I mean, granted, he played 27 minutes, and then uh loss against the Hawks in December. He went seven to fourteen with 18 points. You know, it's like, oh like the offense is there. It's just like I was talking with my grandma the other day about and the conversation brought up about how someone's when we got this big snowstorm, I shoveled up out a spot for my car so I could park there every day and I get back, and someone took my spot. And we were talking, and she was like, Well, it's like if you see a traffic cone or a stop sign, it's like if you see a stop sign, you put a little bit more respect on it because it's like, oh, I need to hold up in case there's something else coming here. And they're like, But if you see a traffic cone, what's stopping you from just moving the traffic cone? And it is like it is like what you said, Greg. It's like that's when the analogy came up. I was like, man, like she's got a good point. When I look at Tristan, it's like some players, you know, still go out smart because he's, you know, still uh uh when we're talking about like strength-wise, he still has to get stronger. But people treat him like a stop sign where it's like, okay, we we gotta respect this because it, you know, if we don't follow to his, you know, kind of path, how he wants to play, we we'll get blocked. We'll we'll you know, we won't get a shot up here. But with Tristan, they're kind of like, man, I'm just gonna go right by you. Who cares? What what power do you have over me?
SPEAKER_07You guys keep saying cone, and I keep thinking I posted uh the video of uh the the Dawkins D Lo comment on TikTok yesterday, and someone in the comment section just posted that picture of uh Bruce Brown in front of the cone that has D Lo's head on it. I'm sorry. Um I don't know about you, Greg. I have sort of like as I had a complicated relationship with the Vukzevitch, how he was discussed over the summer. Because this last summer, I think the Wizards PR was in a really dark, dank hole. Um there were redrafts where Sarah wasn't going top ten. Um no one really know who Keyshawn was yet. And there were people on Twitter who a lot of them were saying, like, you know what Prospect I think is actually really good. I think Vuksevich. I think Vuksevich is the best prospect of the bunch. And I was like, no one who watches the Wizards, I think, I think would say that. But it was this opinion that like I think people were doing to sound like gigabrained and like like they like, you know, I watch League Pass and you don't. And it it sort of drove me nuts. So I I am actually happy to see him knock these random threes down and just have this awesome touch around the rim. Uh, because in a way he's he's proving um the the believers right, the believers who didn't watch the game.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, he's one of the he's one of the few players that like you you actually need to watch him to know what you're getting. Because like I've had people, like I I've been on this train for a while that I'm I'm not sold on him because I don't think he can defend to save his life. And like I I've had people that are like, well, Greg, like he he played four minutes tonight, he had 11 points, and he didn't miss. He was four of four. And I'm like, yeah, but he was a minus 20 in those minutes. Yeah, like how is that possible? It actually makes it worse when you have you don't miss, you take four shots, you're 11, you have four of four, eleven points, and you're somehow 20 points worse in those minutes. Like, that is impressive. And it's because you offer nothing at the rim on defense, you offer nothing on ball on defense, and yeah, you can score, but you can't do anything on the other end, and so like you need to he's not a great rebounder either. He's like it's just he had two rebounds the other day. He's getting out rebounded. He was five, but Sharif had five and he had two, and like the Sharif doubled his rebounds, and he is a full foot taller than Sharif Cooper. Like it's crazy.
SPEAKER_07It's crazy. Well, I mean, sorry to cut you off. Um, to your point, um, you said like he's he goes he has a minus on the box score despite having all these points, and that's a bad thing because I agree. Because other than that, if you if you had a terrible shooting night and the the impact represented, you could say, Oh, it's not your night. But when you're at your best and you're playing the best version of your ball and you're still getting those kind of results according to how your team's performing with you, that's not a good thing.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, no, it's it's rare to see that the team is better with him on the court than with that. He's he's good, he'll get his own, but like will the team benefit from the way that he scores and certainly from the way that he defends. Like, I don't think so, and that's why I don't I don't know if he's really like the staple of the rotation that people think he is.
SPEAKER_05Will will he give you 10 points? Easy. Yes, yeah. Will he give you will will he give up 20 points in that same span? Easy, yes. Better 10. It's like you'll get up his shots, it's just you you already like I mentioned, like if you see someone uh like let's say a one-on-one or down low in the post, and Tristan Vukovishwitch is the main defender here, you know the opponent is scoring. You you already know. You draw it up, and it's like, oh, here's an easy two for him. Oh, here's a wide open three that he's not even gonna close out on. It's just there's no defensive awareness, he's not great defensively. He he has all this size to him, doesn't know how to use it. It's almost like a baby giraffe out there on defense, where it's like he's just kind of running around, tripping over his own feet a few times. But oh my goodness, when I see him pull up from three and he knocks it down, it's a dagger, it gives me hope, but I don't want to have this hope.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, he's good, but he's got better, got to get better on defense. He knows it, I think. But it hasn't yeah, you haven't seen it. Like, I haven't seen he had a game, I don't know if it was against Brooklyn or the game before where he had two blocks, and I was like, this might be a career high. It was like two blocks in like a minute, and I'm like, this might have set a new career high for Tristan. He doesn't he doesn't give you much on that end, but like it was Detroit. Detroit, yeah. Yeah, I remember that.
SPEAKER_05Like I said, I want to be a believer. I do, but until I see him just resemble something of like maybe even like a yield sign on defense. May then I'll start believing. But like it's like I said, the cone, what's what's stopping you from just running the cone over or just going right around it? What's stopping you? Nothing.
SPEAKER_07We're gonna watch. He has played in 33 games this season. That leaves 17 left under his uh two-way deal. So it might be we only got 30 games left. Huh? Only 30 games left as well. Yeah, yeah. So it's gonna be a race to the finish of of some timely DNPs. Or maybe, as Greg said, maybe a conversion's down the road. We'll we'll have to see. Another thing to look forward to for uh whatever these back half wizards got for us. But that's all I got, unless you have something else, Henry. Nah, please. Yeah, Greg, anything you want to plug?
SPEAKER_06Uh I mean I talked about it, the Wizards Podcast. Uh I really have fun that fun recording it. Um pretty weekly show. Um, I mean, it's been pretty it's been pretty up and down. I mean, the AD trade stuff was pretty cool to talk about, but then you got games like the Lakers where I'm like, why am I here? What am I doing? Anyone want to hear about Brownie Chance and Capital One Arena, or should I just not record? Uh but it's fun. And the closer you get to like the end of the season and the closer you get to like the lottery, I think it'll be a lot more fun for Wizards fans. Uh, but like this final sprint, these like last 28-29 games where they uh opponents want to win and they actively are trying to lose, like that can't be too much fun for the viewer. But like, trust me, if you just like lock in on Sharif Cooper and Tristan Vuksevich and just like have fun with some of these like random guys that you don't expect to see playing, like that's at least what gets me through these games, is just like watching for some of these fun guys. Um, but yeah, that the finish line is is pretty near. The rebuild's almost over, and so that's I think what keeps a lot of people sane during this time.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you you mentioned where there's gonna be a lot of teams trying to win and the Wizards will be trying to lose. Starting March 12th, I think I maybe see two wins, maybe. Like they said they start off with Orlando, and then they go Boston, Golden State, Detroit, Detroit, OKC, New York, and then thankfully they get that little break with Utah.
SPEAKER_06But then that's gonna be already big game.
SPEAKER_07Mark your calendar. Mark your calendar.
SPEAKER_05Oh man, and then they go Golden State, Portland, LA, Philly, Miami. Finally, Brooklyn again. Another big game. What do we mean finally?
SPEAKER_06Like those are gonna be like intense matchups. Yeah, no, that's gonna be bad. But Brooklyn doesn't care. Brooklyn's apparently this like we are above everyone else, and we're not gonna tank.
SPEAKER_05Gregor Demon is better than Alex Sarr will ever be. I've seen those comments and it drives me insane. Because they use they use Darko, and Darko only calculates based off of plus minus. That's the main stat you know, stat that they use to calculate the Darko stat. And of course, when you have Alex Sarr that has played on a horrible team for his entire career so far, whereas you know, Yeegor gets to come off the bench to start his career playing alongside Michael Porter Jr., who never passes the ball and is going to get his starty points a game and win you some game. So naturally, you're on the floor during a 10-2 run. So it says you're a plus eight, then you come off and don't play again.
SPEAKER_07Of course, naturally, sorry, I'm just yeah, that's a more headphone listeners for whatever whatever that was. Do you feel better now?
SPEAKER_05I feel a little bit better. It's just I hate people that just strictly like look at like, oh, look at his plus minus this night. He had two he only played two minutes, but he was a plus eight. Why didn't he play more? Do you ever think he was just in during a stretch where the team went on a 10-2 run and he didn't actually contribute anything to the basketball play right there? Like, did you think of that?
SPEAKER_07No, like it's uh Greg said, we'll appreciate um the Coopers and the Vuksevich. We'll appreciate the ride. Yes. And you know, that this is this is for the ball watchers. Yeah, you guys, you guys are pulling through. Keep at it.
SPEAKER_05Yep. But thank you guys for tuning in as always. And final thing, we have a Twitter account now. Shout out, Noah. He made the Twitter account where you can follow all the wizards on SI stuff and all the podcast postings will be on there as well. So go ahead, check that out, All Wizards Talk on Twitter. That's all we got. That's a podcast episode. We'll see you guys in the next one. Peace.
SPEAKER_02Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you, and hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up. Spring's calling. Ross, work your magic.